Latest / Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News / Weathering the storm of suffering

Transcript

Weathering the storm of suffering · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:04
  Good day.
• 0:05
  Welcome to the Big Day Report on the America Out Loud News Talk Radio Network.
• 0:10
  The counter momentum of spin.
• 0:12
  I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:14
  Franco Museum.
• 0:16
  So to our friends listening in the United States and around the world, and I state this each time, there's no lack whatsoever of hard use items to keep our adrenaline going.
• 0:30
  Our aim, though, in this show is to dissect out the nuances and of course the underlying causes and foundations of these events, uh, which we come into contact with now all the time, continuously.
• 0:44
  So we've we speak a lot about geopolitics.
• 0:47
  The last couple of shows, uh, I was privileged to have Jackie Jones.
• 0:51
  We spoke about women in the workplace, we speak about uh all kinds of uh not only news items, but uh human interest stories.
• 1:01
  Today's show uh it is a continuing break from these geopolitics and kind of workplace issues.
• 1:08
  So we're gonna talk about something pretty heavy.
• 1:12
  Uh and uh but it governs all of our lives continuously.
• 1:16
  Uh I title it weathering the storm of suffering.
• 1:20
  Is there a silver lining?
• 1:23
  And implied in that title is yes, there is.
• 1:26
  In fact, there's there's more than one silver lining, and uh it's as I said, it's a heavy topic, and I'm going to try to add some level levity to it.
• 1:36
  Uh, I also jest that maybe also the aliens uh should be listening to this because uh you remember a couple days ago the tapes were released, and um, by the way, I'm gonna divert, I'm gonna have in the show in the next few shows here, I'm gonna have someone who came face to face with an alien, uh, Captain Dutch Rouge.
• 1:56
  He was flying, and uh, or at least an unidentified object, flying object.
• 2:02
  Anyway, so uh these documents a few days ago and many more to come, God only knows.
• 2:08
  God only knows the mentalities and the cerebral tissue they have.
• 2:12
  So this is a topic, suffering, which is near and dear to my heart.
• 2:18
  Uh, not only the suffering that's inherent in striving for success, but the personal suffering that's also inherent to our day-to-day mundane lives.
• 2:31
  Not to say that we have mundane lives, uh, our lives are very valuable, and but they're full of stressors, of which, and many of them lead to suffering and attacking us like sniper fire from many different directions.
• 2:49
  The key, though, in my own navigation of this is in my own opinions, is how to handle, how to handle, how to deal with it.
• 2:58
  Uh, and as per the umbrella title of the show, the countermomentum of spin, how to meet suffering with counter momentum.
• 3:07
  And uh it's easier said than done, obviously, and each case is different.
• 3:13
  But we're gonna we're gonna work on dissecting various angles, and we're gonna attack the subject from various angles, so almost like the sniper fire coming from coming to us from various angles, and I'll do my best to provide insights into its management.
• 3:32
  But let me go into some background here, and and it's gonna be a little bit detailed introduction and background.
• 3:39
  So, so what is how to define pain and suffering?
• 3:43
  Are they distinct?
• 3:45
  Yes, to some degree they are, but they're also deeply intertwined experiences.
• 3:51
  Um, they're many times interchangeable.
• 3:55
  Pain uh is typically the physiologic result of injury, physical injury, but there's an emotional component to that physical pain, or uh, and components more than one, which can modify that physical pain uh in a positive or a negative way.
• 4:20
  Whereas suffering is the psychological interpretation, it can be a resistance, or it can be a story we build around that pain, be it physical pain or emotional pain.
• 4:36
  So um, and as I said, it's very, very intertwined.
• 4:41
  So pain is inevitable.
• 4:44
  Suffering, though, is considered differently, it's considered a more detailed and comprehensive reaction to the pain, the pain either being physical and or emotional.
• 5:02
  And and again, we can see how interrelated pain and suffering actually are.
• 5:07
  Sometimes it's actually impossible at times to speak about them differently.
• 5:12
  So pain going to uh physical or physical suffering, but pain is not always suffering.
• 5:21
  So, for example, uh, if you have an intense workout and you you have muscle aches and sometimes even more than that, that can actually bring satisfaction rather than emotional distress, because you're saying, well, okay, this is the uh, you know, no pain, no gain, so to speak.
• 5:40
  And actually, one may not be psychologically suffering, but but chronic pain from cancer, which I see all the time in patients, poor patients, or severe uh lower back pain, or you name it from other injuries, uh, this is uh the uh continuum is suffering, could be horrible, horrible pain and horrible suffering.
• 6:09
  So now, suffering going to pain.
• 6:13
  So emotional pain is a separate inner physiological and affective response, can say subjective, can be very subjective to an event, an occurrence, which is typically traumatic and rife with emotional negative components, and and of course, there's varying degrees of this per the individual person.
• 6:39
  How does the individual person uh interpret this?
• 6:44
  Is the person dealing with it in a healthy way, as we just we think of as psychologists think of as healthy, uh or is it not?
• 6:55
  Um and as we say, there are overlap, suffering occurs when physical pain is uncontrolled, persistent, or accompanied by an unwillingness to accept the reality of the physical situation, and of course, the emotional pain we mentioned before, leading to suffering.
• 7:00
  When physical pain is uncontrolled, persistent, or accompanied by an unwillingness to accept the reality of the physical situation.
• 7:09
  And of course, the emotional pain we mentioned before, leading to suffering.
• 7:15
  So some would say in the medical world, pain is a uh a physical sign uh signal.
• 7:15
  So some would say in the medical world, pain is uh uh a physical sign uh signal, it's a life saving alarm system, so to speak, urging us to act where suffering um some would say, although clearly.
• 7:21
  It's a life-saving alarm system, so to speak, urging us to act, whereas suffering some would say, although clearly, clearly we disagree many times that it arises from the failure or inability to act upon or accept physical or emotional pain, turning turning it into a general self-ache.
• 7:42
  Well, yes, sometimes that is true, but so often, and I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about horrible situations where parents lose their children or lose their love, we lose our loved ones from crime, criminals, uh situations of that nature or other tragedies.
• 8:03
  Well, of course, there's inherent horrible suffering in going through that.
• 8:08
  So there are certain situations, uh, and uh there we we we can't control, and uh we can't control, for example, significant emotional pain, and we just said suffering.
• 8:22
  Some individuals we can't control that.
• 8:26
  Well, we can try to, and that's what we're gonna talk about, and we're gonna try to modify this.
• 8:31
  Um, and uh this is where our personal interpretations and hard wiring in our brains play a great role in the response aspect to negative stimuli.
• 8:44
  But believe me, the grieving, grieving, suffering that goes along with the grieving, that's very, very normal and horrible, but it it occurs in all of our lives and in different degrees, of course, of that.
• 9:00
  So to continue on with this kind of long introduction, pain is inevitable, it is, uh, often physical or emotional, it's a signal of discomfort or injury.
• 9:11
  Um, whereas the suffering is a mental, emotional, possibly resistance, story, interpretation, added to that pain, or if not added, uh, inherently associated with that mental pain.
• 9:31
  So pain is a raw sensation, it's a raw physical sensation.
• 9:36
  If you have an injury, for example, um, but it's an emotional sensation, if you will.
• 9:43
  Um, and sometimes the suffering is perpetrated or accentuated by other thoughts, like, why me?
• 9:52
  Why should this be happening to me?
• 9:54
  I mean, of course, that's that's kind of normal in terms of responses.
• 9:58
  Uh, but guess what?
• 10:01
  It's it's part of our lives.
• 10:03
  We can't do anything about it.
• 10:04
  So it's inescapable, it's a natural part of life, human experiences, both both kinds.
• 10:09
  I I'm gonna group suffering kind of together now.
• 10:13
  Um, you know, we can dissect this the semantics of it as much as we want, but suffering is suffering, you know, and it's subjective, yes, but it's something very negative that we go through.
• 10:25
  But in fact, we can use the countermoment here we're gonna talk about in a little bit and turn that around to some degree.
• 10:33
  So, how can I tell a grieving parent or spouse or anyone involved in horrible tragedies that oh, this is your emotional pain, or or your suffering is too much, or it's not healthy, or it's counterproductive.
• 10:48
  So, and many like to partificate about this too, about the psychological intricacies of suffering, or um uh idle commentaries, if you will, uh, upon or critiquing others for their suffering.
• 11:03
  Well, many of these people have not gone through it themselves, if they were to have gone through uh, you know, case in point, case in point, these uh illegals or not illegals, Americans killing uh murdering children.
• 11:19
  Uh you tell that parent how to react and how to this and how to that, and you should do this, and you know, you dissect it down to a science.
• 11:28
  Hell no, no, these are raw, raw, horrible emotions that we go through, sometimes more acute and intense than others, but still horrible.
• 11:39
  So the psychological perspective, and sometimes we need to throw that psychological stuff out the window, but but it's worthwhile, I think it's worthwhile discussing, because uh I think it's very good.
• 11:51
  There's been so much written about suffering.
• 11:54
  But the psychological percepts perspective suggests that suffering is of an interesting function, uh, you know, reducing it to an equation, a function of pain multiplied by resistance.
• 12:07
  Pain multiplied by resistance.
• 12:11
  If you have a high resistance, that suffering is gonna be worse because you take that pain, you multiply the emotional pain, let's say, multiply it by high resistance, it's gonna be a high degree of suffering.
• 12:25
  Whereas if you allow it to occur, do not resist that emotional pain, which is inherent in our lives, potentially, potentially, the suffering would be less.
• 12:40
  But again, this is very, very, very individualized.
• 12:45
  So, yes, dealing with pain involves noticing that sensation, I think without judgment, mindfulness to prevent it from escalating, even worse.
• 12:57
  Uh treatment, yes, there are treatments, there's psychological uh, you know, uh counseling and what have you, or simply being with close relatives and close friends to help weather this storm.
• 13:10
  So we're gonna be speaking, so that that's a hell of an introduction, I know, but I think a long introduction, but I think it's important.
• 13:17
  So we're gonna speak about further in this show the following angles, if you will.
• 13:23
  Some would say there's a gift of suffering.
• 13:26
  So the counterintuitive idea that trials can strengthen us, strengthen our soul, sharpen our vision, create resilience, yes.
• 13:36
  Uh suffering can be a catalyst for change.
• 13:40
  Hardship forces us to reevaluate our priorities, definitely can lead to personal growth, deeper empathy, and strength.
• 13:50
  We never knew we had.
• 13:51
  Um, and then the question of meaning is there meaning, not only why me and what is this, why is this occurring to me, but but actually taking the bull by the horns and saying, hey, this awful thing is happening, I am really going through a bad period of time.
• 14:00
  Taking the bull by the horns and saying, hey, this awful thing is happening.
• 14:04
  I am really going through a bad period of time.
• 14:06
  Not only why, but um let me seek some meaning in this.
• 14:06
  Not only why, but um let me seek some meaning in this.
• 14:12
  And we're gonna talk about that.
• 14:12
  And we're going to talk about that.
• 14:13
  We'll talk about why good people suffer, bad people suffer, yes, but good people do in particular.
• 14:13
  We'll talk about why good people suffer, bad people suffer, yes, but good people do in particular, um, and different approaches to suffering and the role of forgiveness when someone has wronged us.
• 14:20
  Um, and different approaches to suffering and the role of forgiveness when someone has wronged us.
• 14:27
  So um the inequality of
• 14:27
  So the inequality of suffering, we talked about that.
• 14:31
  Why do good people suffer?
• 14:33
  So why are some people facing disproportionate amounts of trauma?
• 14:40
  And the ex is existential really vanity of life, where unfair things happen to good people.
• 14:47
  I see this all the time in the hospital, extremely upright citizens and people who uh who go through horrible, horrible physical and mental situations and suffering.
• 15:01
  So let me start with the first angle, the angle of meaning of suffering.
• 15:06
  So we mentioned there's no other topic more written and spoken about, it's really true.
• 15:13
  Uh the human existence of suffering.
• 15:16
  The famous 19th century German philosopher and psychologist, Frederick Friedrich Nietzsche.
• 15:22
  Uh, he was born in 1844 and he died in 1900.
• 15:26
  So he had a very short life, 56 years, but he accomplished quite a bit as a philosopher and psychologist, is well known for coining the phrase, what does not kill us makes us stronger, or what does not kill me makes me stronger.
• 15:43
  So suffering can basically make us more resilient to the hardships of life.
• 15:50
  And he wrote this maxim in a short masterpiece uh entitled The Twilight of the Idols.
• 15:56
  The book was written in 1888, shortly before Nietzsche, unfortunately, also suffered a mental breakdown.
• 16:04
  Um, and in essence, he he was dying as a great thinker.
• 16:09
  Um maybe maybe this line or this phrase about uh if it doesn't kill me, it makes me stronger, self-encouragement to some degree.
• 16:18
  So he suffered immensely, physically, emotionally in his life.
• 16:24
  Um but but he pointed out that while living, he mentioned living is suffering.
• 16:31
  Surviving is finding meaning and suffering, not only surviving, but surviving in a positive way.
• 16:40
  Surviving in a mentally healthy way, is finding meaning through our many, many, many different forms and types of suffering.
• 16:50
  So meaning is the means by which we endure, and he went further to suggest that great accomplishments are exchanged for great suffering.
• 17:01
  So, in a sense, we must be martyrs to our own suffering, our own art, and our art is a worldly life.
• 17:12
  Well, more to come, much more to come, actually, uh, on the other side.
• 17:16
  We'll talk more about Nietzsche and his colleagues and go more in depth into the topic of suffering.
• 17:23
  So, whole type.
• 17:25
  Successful weight loss is about changing the gut-brain relationship with food.
• 17:29
  I'm Dr.
• 17:29
  Kelly Victory with the Wellness Company.
• 17:31
  If you don't like needles, you'll love oral dissolving terzepatide RX.
• 17:36
  Works by targeting the GLP1 and GIP receptors that influence appetite and metabolism.
• 17:42
  And unlike injections, these are fast absorbing sublingual tablets placed under the tongue, paired with an energy boost of B6 and B12.
• 17:50
  Visit TWC.
• 17:57
  Is your gut a mess?
• 17:58
  Two-thirds of Americans suffer because of gastrointestinal issues, and I was one of them.
• 18:03
  That is why we created a three-step doctor formulated completely natural gut reboot system that you can do at home in just minutes a day.
• 18:12
  Go to Chemicalfree Body.com forward slash out loud today.
• 18:16
  Get the Malcolm Healthy Gut Bundle, reboot your gut and your energy, and save 20% on your first order.
• 18:26
  Well, did you see Google quietly updated its AI principles removing its pledge not to use AI for weapons or surveillance?
• 18:36
  A promise they agreed to in 2018.
• 18:39
  Well, the American people have seen Google's track record.
• 18:42
  Often the question is Google an untrustworthy player in the AI race.
• 18:52
  Now is our time, my fellow Americans.
• 18:55
  America Alpha News.
• 18:57
  Liberty and Justice for all.
• 19:06
  Welcome back.
• 19:07
  Welcome back with counter momentum of spin and our in-depth discussion on the topic of suffering.
• 19:15
  So we were speaking about Nietzsche and the first side, the flip side, or the former side, if you will.
• 19:22
  And this is what he wrote, just fascinating what he wrote in this uh, if you will, memoir or the masterpiece, short, The Twilight of Idols.
• 19:32
  He wrote, quote, examine the lives of the best and most fruitful people and peep bulls, and ask yourselves whether a tree that is supposed to grow to a proud height can dispense with bad weather and storms, whether misfortune and external resistance, some kinds of hatred, jealousy, stubbornness, mistrust, hardness, avarice, and violence do not belong among the favorable conditions without which any great growth, even of virtue is scarcely possible.
• 20:16
  So that's that's an amazing, amazing sentence, long sentence.
• 20:21
  Um but basically our suffering can have meaning, and all but but only if we allow it to have meaning.
• 20:29
  And to put his life in perspective, we mentioned he lived from 19 or 1844 to 1900.
• 20:36
  Freud uh uh was born, he was 12 years old, uh, Freud was when Nietzsche was born.
• 20:44
  So Freud lived from 1856 to 1939.
• 20:47
  Now, another great mind in this field, Victor Frankel, Victor Frankel, uh was born in 1905, he died in 1997, a very, very well-known Jewish Austrian psychologist and Holocaust survivor, who, as I said, died in 1995, 1997, sorry.
• 21:00
  Jewish Austrian psychologist and Holocaust survivor, who, as I said, died in 1995, 1997, sorry.
• 21:07
  Um, but he was in Auschwitz, he noted that his fellow inmates in German concentration camps were more likely to survive if they derived some sense of meaning from the awful and horrible conditions of those camps.
• 21:07
  But he was in Auschwitz, he noted that his fellow inmates in German concentration camps were more likely to survive if they derived some sense of meaning from the awful and horrible conditions of those camps.
• 21:24
  And he was the author of the Landmark book entitled Man's Search for Meaning.
• 21:24
  And he was the author of the Landmark book entitled Man's Search for Meaning.
• 21:30
  It was written in German in 1946.
• 21:32
  Then the English version came out in 1959, was a best seller.
• 21:37
  He's renowned for developing what's called logotherapy, logotherapy, which is um the third Vietnamese Viennese, Austrian school of psychotherapy.
• 21:48
  It asserts that the primary human motivation is finding meaning in love, even, even, and maybe more importantly, uh in the midst of extreme suffering.
• 21:59
  So this bestseller, this memoir psychological text, it outlines in detail uh Frankel's experiences in the Nazi concentration camps.
• 22:11
  And as I said, including Alchist, which is one of the worst, and argues that finding purpose is essential for survival.
• 22:20
  Now, the healing through meaning, that's what logotherapy is.
• 22:24
  Uh, this approach helps individuals vastly finding meaning in their existence and and helps overcome existential physical emotional suffering.
• 22:37
  Now, he's widely recognized for his philosophy that humans have the freedom to choose their responses.
• 22:46
  And it kind of dovetails a little bit with what Nietzsche was saying, but uh humans have the freedom to choose their responses to any situation.
• 22:56
  And um he famously said, when we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
• 23:08
  So logotherapy, uh, as I said, it's considered the third school of psychology or psychotherapy, and um following following that is Sigmund Freud's pleasure principle and uh Alfred Adler's striving for superior superiority, but in my humble opinion, those two schools, if you will, yeah, that there may be some inherent value in those.
• 23:32
  But um it puts Frankel's uh it puts themselves to shame, both Adler and Freud, because uh Frankel's ideas and thoughts, I think are far, far superior.
• 23:47
  So finding meaning in suffering, both Nietzsche and Frankel, uh it carries strong religious and uh spiritual overtones, uh maybe on a tangent, it's not exclusively religious, but of course, secular perspectives and uh the secular perspectives may be suffering solely as an interruption to happiness or a random negative event.
• 24:14
  But many theological and spiritual, it doesn't have to be truly theological, but spiritual traditions view it suffering as an opportunity for growth, purification or even deep, deeper understanding.
• 24:28
  Um, if you break down the the meaning of suffering, the meaning as we're talking about now, meaning of suffering, yes, religious and spiritual overtones, but there's a mix.
• 24:40
  There's a mix, or or there can be a mix.
• 24:43
  Some actually, including myself, would take more the spiritual versus the secular, others would take the secular versus the spiritual.
• 24:52
  But uh, yeah, there's a so there's if you look at it theologically, redemptive redemptive suffering, it's in Christian theology, but but also many other religions partake of this suffering is seen as redemptive when we unite, yes, with the suffering of Jesus Christ as a Christian, uh, changing it from a senseless evil, meaning suffering, uh, into a purposeful sacrifice, meaning the the dying of Christ on the cross.
• 25:23
  Um many traditions, and again the Catholic theology via Thomas Aquinas, but many uh Christian traditions hold on to this, view trials now not as divine abandonment, not as abandonment by God, but uh an instrument, pedagogical pedagogical uh instrument used by God to foster virtues like patience, hope, and charity.
• 25:50
  And uh religious traditions, they often find struggle to align their suffering with beliefs in a loving God.
• 25:58
  Yes, and we're gonna talk about that later on.
• 26:01
  Um kind of a uh theodical struggle, if you will, searching for meaning, uh how can there be a good God when pain is such a reality?
• 26:13
  And others would say, offer it up, offer it up.
• 26:17
  A common practice among Christianity, uh, again, particularly Catholicism is to offer up suffering to God.
• 26:23
  Um and Jewish context, also severe hardships, is are framed as a test of fate, like uh faith, like the story of Job serves to deepen dependence on God.
• 26:36
  Now, if we want to separate a little bit from the theological, but really a transcendent experience, the finding of meaning and suffering, transcended is often often described as a transcendent experience where the the individual individual rises above their circumstances.
• 27:01
  And I would I would entertain and I would push, I would ask everyone to strongly strongly consider or to um think about that.
• 27:13
  So spiritual growth, yes, outside of a specific organized religion, but many would find suffering sparks uh existential reflection, prompting a move uh from a wounded storyteller, if you will, oh poor me, poor me, to a person see seeking deeper spiritual growth and empathy.
• 27:37
  Me personally, I I would see that more in a religious religious angle, but but not everyone.
• 27:44
  Um so but meaning making, making a meaning out of suffering can be secular.
• 27:49
  So Frankel, Victor Frankel, we talked about his logotherapy, uh focuses on finding meaning uh in in the specific when, what, how, of a crisis, rather than really a divine why.
• 28:00
  Rather than really a divine why.
• 28:03
  But we're gonna talk about that why for sure.
• 28:03
  But we're going to talk about that why for sure.
• 28:06
  And post-traumatic growth.
• 28:06
  And post-traumatic growth.
• 28:09
  Psychology often describes it, or the field of psychology, that the process of post-traumatic growth, not necessarily post-traumatic syndrome, where uh individuals are, you know, um uh uh uh we'll speak about that too, but post-traumatic distress, disorder or syndrome.
• 28:09
  Psychology uh often describes it or the field of psychology that the process of post-traumatic growth, not necessarily post-traumatic syndrome, where uh individuals are, you know, um uh uh uh we'll speak about that too, but post-traumatic distress, disorder or syndrome, but uh
• 28:29
  But uh psychological studies show that you can take this by the whore, uh, take the bull by the horns and and grow from it.
• 28:38
  And this can be secular, it does mirror religious language of being kind of transformed and reborn, but but it can clearly be more of a secular.
• 28:47
  So how do we tie this up?
• 28:50
  How do we tie this up?
• 28:53
  Meaning can be found in suffering.
• 28:55
  It's often through navigating intense emotional pain, adversity, and loss that individuals really discover purpose, and profound lessons are learned, and personal growth ensues.
• 29:13
  Uh Frankel argued that while suffering is inevitable, and it clearly is, we retain the freedom to choose our attitude towards it, our attitude towards the suffering.
• 29:27
  And Nietzsche was intimating that too.
• 29:29
  So transforming it, shifting it, the counter momentum, uh shifting a personal tragedy, tragedy into a triumph.
• 29:40
  So that attitudinal value, what we can't change, or when we can't change a situation, like an incurable disease or a horrible loss, we're challenged, definitely suffering is a huge challenge.
• 29:57
  Uh, to change ourselves or to modify ourselves, or to oh, if I use the word accommodate or adapt by choosing a positive or a courageous, we'll talk about courage in the third segment, um, or maybe this segment, we'll talk about courage.
• 30:19
  Uh choosing a positive, a courageous attitude toward that event, or toward the fate.
• 30:27
  Uh, so suffering, if you want to look at it this way, it can be converted into a task or a why, a why, a purpose, providing a reason to live, as Frankel mentioned in his was describing in Man's Search for Meaning.
• 30:45
  Now, post-traumatic growth, yeah, trauma can lead to positive change.
• 30:50
  It's an arduous, arduous process, hence suffering.
• 30:55
  Suffering is by definition not easy, but uh it definitely can lead to increased gratitude, empathy, stronger relationships when we go through hardships, um, connection and compassion, pain can break down illusions and open our hearts, foster deeper compassion for ourselves and for others.
• 31:22
  So there's different perspective, existentialism, that field, despair or that field of philosophy, despair is often defined as suffering without meaning.
• 31:35
  So, but finding purpose is a primary human drive.
• 31:41
  So uh essential for our mental health and our survival.
• 31:44
  So I would say existentialism, go go take a you know, take a hop in the river or whatever you call it, jump in the lake.
• 31:54
  Now, Christianity, Christian uh perspectives based on Christianity, or Judeo-Christian thought, view suffering as something to be maybe offered up, or allowing individuals to share in a higher purpose, and yes, overcome feelings of victimization, and reflecting on past suffering can also reveal lessons learned while facing present suffering can turn it the present suffering into a meaningful experience, basically having learned from past experiences.
• 32:28
  Um, so ultimately suffering it does it have meaning in and of itself, no.
• 32:35
  Suffering inherently does not inherently possess meaning, but the human spirit has the capacity to create meaning from it, and turning profound emotional pain and also physical pain into really a catalyst for profound meaning.
• 32:59
  So let's recap this uh the issue of meaning and suffering.
• 33:05
  So, yes, can be found in suffering, actively choosing to reframe it as a catalyst, as we spoke about for growth and compassion and uh uh purposeful action, uh, rather than just a passive painful experience.
• 33:22
  So, as I said before, take the bull by the horns, uh, transform suffering into purpose, fostering compassion, reframe pain, slash suffering as the huge potential for growth, and um ultimately in the end of this angle of suffering.
• 33:46
  The goal is not to enjoy suffering, okay?
• 33:49
  It's really not, although there are some Japanese uh ways of looking at things, which are very interesting, I gather, maybe Buddhist, in which they actually enjoy supposed to enjoy suffering.
• 34:01
  Um, but but it's so the goal is not to enjoy it, but to transform it into a meaningful, if you will sacrifice, look at it that way, or a transformative journey that contributes to really a purposeful life.
• 34:18
  Now, uh we have we have a few minutes in this uh segment left.
• 34:23
  So the angle of courage and wisdom.
• 34:27
  I'm gonna talk about that, the angle of courage and wisdom.
• 34:32
  We spoke about the angle of meaning, but how about courage and wisdom?
• 34:36
  So, as per Nietzsche's comments, we spoke about that suffering makes us stronger.
• 34:43
  Basically, to live is to suffer, to survive is to make sense of the suffering.
• 34:52
  Again, the meaning part.
• 34:53
  Now, the quality of courage and the wisdom gained from suffering is an example of its benefits or potentially positive outcomes.
• 35:00
  Suffering is an example of its benefits or potentially positive outcomes.
• 35:07
  Nelson Mandela, who needs no introduction, stated in his definition of suffering and courage.
• 35:07
  Nelson Mandela, who needs no introduction, stated in his definition of suffering and courage, quote.
• 35:14
  Quote.
• 35:16
  I I love this statement, this phrase.
• 35:16
  I I love this statement, this phrase, I love this.
• 35:19
  I love this.
• 35:19
  I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it.
• 35:19
  I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it.
• 35:29
  The brave
• 35:29
  The brave person is not the one who does not feel afraid, but the one who conquers that fear.
• 35:36
  End of quote.
• 35:38
  Also, I would add that the words fear and suffering really could be intertwined.
• 35:43
  When my wife and I went to South Africa last year and saw the prison where Nelson Mandela was subject to uh I want to say was it 31 years, 33 years?
• 35:55
  My goodness gracious.
• 35:57
  Um just horrible.
• 35:59
  And bad things are still occurring in South Africa, of course.
• 36:02
  So courage can be defined as the ability to act rationally, many different definitions, but I like this one the ability to act rationally in the face of fear.
• 36:14
  Fear is normal.
• 36:16
  Everyone has fear in the face of fear.
• 36:19
  The ability to act rationally in the face of fear, but it can also be looked at as the mental or moral strength to venture, persevere and withstand danger, fear or difficulty.
• 36:34
  So again, the mental or moral strength to venture, persevere and withstand danger, fear or difficulty.
• 36:42
  In fact, if humanity, this is interesting, if humanity were immune to hardships, danger and suffering, there would be no facing it.
• 36:52
  There could be no facing it, and hence no courage.
• 36:56
  So courage is definitely a virtue.
• 37:00
  And it arrives in the presence of danger or fear or suffering.
• 37:05
  And it's qualities that we simply cannot possess in the absence of hardship.
• 37:11
  So hold tight, and on the other side, we're going to go into more in depth the story of courage and wisdom as emanating from suffering.
• 37:22
  Oral hygiene hasn't changed in 50 years, but our diet and the way we eat has creating an environment in your mouth for bacteria to wreck havoc on your teeth and gums.
• 37:32
  For better oral health, get sprayed dental defense, an oral care line designed to combat acid creating bacteria.
• 37:40
  The toothpaste, mouthwash, mints, and gum all contain xylitol, and natural ingredients shown to dramatically improve oral health.
• 37:48
  Sprite can be found online and at all fine natural retailers.
• 37:52
  Have you been looking for a healthy snack for on the go?
• 37:56
  Well, not all energy bars are soft and sugary.
• 38:00
  Bear bars are a crunchy savory bar made from just six simple natural ingredients.
• 38:06
  Bear bars are plant-based, organic gluten-free, contain six grams of protein and are low temperature dried for unique crunch.
• 38:15
  Most energy bars are based on chocolate or fruit and are held together with syrups or sweeteners.
• 38:22
  To learn more, just visit barebar.com slash out loud.
• 38:30
  Welcome back.
• 38:31
  Welcome back.
• 38:31
  We were touching on the uh the virtues or the elements of courage and wisdom.
• 38:38
  And um, I want to quote someone else.
• 38:42
  I mean, it it's important.
• 38:45
  Um Ralph Washington Sockman, he was a senior pastor of Christ Church in New York City from 1916 to 1961.
• 38:56
  And he gained national prominence as the featured speaker on weekly NBC radio program entitled National Radio Pulpit.
• 39:04
  I wish they had it off, but you know, there's so many of these podcasts too, including ours.
• 39:09
  But that aired from 1928 to 1962.
• 39:12
  And he famously wrote, quote, without danger, and this is kind of like uh sorry, this is kind of a continuum of what uh our definition of courage.
• 39:24
  But anyway, he wrote, quote, without danger, there would be no adventure.
• 39:28
  Without friction, our cars would not start, and our spirits would not soar.
• 39:34
  Without tears, eyes would not shine with the richest expressions.
• 39:39
  End of quote.
• 39:41
  Isn't that good?
• 39:42
  I mean, I I think that's actually an outstanding way of looking at suffering.
• 39:50
  So it develops courage by acting as a vehicle that really forces individuals to confront limitations, shatter illusions of self-sufficiency, and adapt to new harsh, harsher realities.
• 40:07
  So it puts us out of our comfort zone.
• 40:10
  So in other words, uh, it clearly does.
• 40:13
  So it's a process often described in psychology as we said before, post-traumatic growth, uh, where enduring pain leads to profound and can lead to profound personal transformation and increased resistance and resilience.
• 40:30
  So it's taking the actual occurrence of PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder, excuse me, which is very real.
• 40:39
  It's extremely real, but transforming it to good, or at least modifying it, if you will, broad modifying it.
• 40:47
  So the breakdown of self-sufficiency, humility, uh, suffering breaks down ego and forces.
• 40:54
  Uh forces uh, I'm sorry, ego, we and other forces, yes, but it it forces us, we individuals to acknowledge that we cannot control everything.
• 41:05
  It's a crucial first step towards true courage.
• 41:10
  And hardships bring us to the end of our own strength to some degree.
• 41:16
  So it encourages a reliance on God, community, internal resources, previously unused.
• 41:23
  It removes elocha illusions, so pain strips away the illusion that life is supposed to be easy.
• 41:30
  It's not, never is.
• 41:32
  So it forces a confrontation with reality.
• 41:37
  So an interesting analogy is metal is tempered by fire to gain strength.
• 41:44
  Human character too is forged by heat and pressure.
• 41:47
  So isn't that interesting?
• 41:50
  Um, metal is needs to be hardened by being placed into fire and extremely high temperatures for it to turn into a very strong uh uh substance.
• 42:00
  For it to turn into a very strong uh uh substance, and human character is kind of the same thing.
• 42:05
  And human character is kind of the same thing.
• 42:07
  So suffering pushes individuals beyond what they thought they could endure.
• 42:07
  So suffering pushes individuals beyond what they thought they could endure, and and yes, it does uncover hidden strengths.
• 42:13
  And and yes, it does uncover hidden strengths.
• 42:17
  Um, and we when we persevere through something difficult, a we're proud of ourselves, but we emerge really in many ways with a higher capacity to handle future stress.
• 42:17
  Um, and we when we persevere through something difficult, a we're proud of ourselves, but we emerge really in many ways with a higher capacity to handle future stressors.
• 42:31
  So the only way to move forward, the only way to move forward in terms of developing, cultivating persevering um courage, is to go directly through the pain.
• 42:46
  We have no choice rather than attempting to avoid it.
• 42:49
  Many people do attempt to avoid pain, emotional pain, and there's there's really nothing wrong as a physician, as a human being, with let's say SSRIs or certain medications for anxiety.
• 43:06
  Um, when that anxiety gets to a certain level where that suffering could be modified, I have I have no problems with that.
• 43:16
  But on the other hand, um, avoiding it, completely avoiding it.
• 43:20
  No, that that's not that's not how you handle that.
• 43:24
  So suffering forces a shift in perspective, moving moving from a passive being a passive victim mentally to an active overcomer mindset.
• 43:38
  So, in other words, a proactive stance, and as I said a number of times, you're probably sick of me saying this, taking the bull by the horns.
• 43:46
  So reframing challenges, instead of asking why me, instead learn to ask, what is this teaching me?
• 43:57
  Because this why me, um, you know, it clearly we're gonna have additional shows on this because there's so many angles to look at why me and pitying myself and being the victim, all of that.
• 44:13
  We're all victims to some degree, and but victim isn't the right word.
• 44:18
  We we all a victim has very negative connotation.
• 44:22
  We all have to in this life go through painful periods.
• 44:27
  We all have to have to.
• 44:30
  It is mandatory that we suffer, and there's there's infinite ways that we can suffer, but we need to learn to ask what is it teaching me?
• 44:42
  What is it teaching me?
• 44:44
  Um and will it allow me to appreciate life more deeply?
• 44:51
  Appreciating moments of peace that that once we're taken for granted.
• 44:55
  Uh the answer is yes.
• 44:58
  The answer is a resounding yes.
• 45:00
  So suffering doesn't guarantee growth, okay?
• 45:03
  Doesn't guarantee growth.
• 45:05
  It can break people if they don't handle it or temper it the right way.
• 45:09
  But when engaged constructively, in a constructive fashion, it acts to suffering acts as kind of a crossover point, transforming fear, into courage.
• 45:24
  So the composite of courage leading to wisdom.
• 45:31
  I need to take a sip of coffee here, sorry.
• 45:34
  Excuse me.
• 45:38
  Okay, so suffering fosters courage and wisdom.
• 45:45
  We're going to talk about wisdom here in a minute by forcing individuals to confront existential fears, breaking down self-sufficiency to build resilience and fostering a deeper reflection.
• 45:59
  What we talked about before, life's meaning, or or the meaning of um suffering.
• 46:06
  So though enduring adversity, people, yes, or through it, I should say, not though, but through, uh, people develop compassion, okay, and perspectives, and and often a stronger character.
• 46:19
  What is a stronger character mean?
• 46:21
  Well, that's a whole nother show.
• 46:24
  But um, you know, they develop a fire, a fire in their spirit in their belly, uh, by uh, you know, uh going into the kitchen fire, being thrown into the fire, so to speak, the fire meaning suffering to preserve and live with greater awareness.
• 46:41
  So the courage we spoke about, excuse me, it's similar to in a way, in a sense, it's similar to how muscles require strain to build, you know, the heart does too.
• 46:57
  That's what cardio means.
• 46:58
  So human emotions need to endure pain to build resilience and strength and maturity and courage.
• 47:08
  So action amidst fear, suffering enables individuals to act decisively, despite the fear.
• 47:15
  That that's what courage is, we said moving towards problems, towards them in a sense, embracing them rather than avoiding them.
• 47:25
  Um, it forces a shift from self-sufficiency to trusting in higher principles or faith, reducing the fear of the unknown.
• 47:37
  Now, uh it's interesting, excuse me.
• 47:40
  Again, in essence, it the researchers like Paul Gilbert, he was a British clinical psychologist, he was founder of uh uh uh compassion, compassion focused therapy, but but what he what he did with this is he helped grow or in an individual courage to grow.
• 48:03
  So the ability to face suffering directly as the cornerstone to developing both courage and wisdom, turning adversity, and he would call this adversity into quote a crucible of strength.
• 48:24
  Now, let's go into the wisdom portion of this, because wisdom, wisdom is definitely an outcome of courage and of suffering.
• 48:36
  So, yes, uh yes, without a doubt, I'm the first to say the suffering disrupts our daily routines.
• 48:43
  Uh but it forces reflection and a deeper understanding of life's true priorities.
• 48:50
  Um, and that's where the wisdom comes comes in.
• 48:53
  It brings a deep respect for reality and limitations and removes illusions of control.
• 49:00
  Of control.
• 49:02
  No, we don't have control of anything, everything.
• 49:02
  No, we don't have control of anything, everything.
• 49:04
  No.
• 49:04
  No.
• 49:05
  And it teaches lessons in patience, character, emotional strength.
• 49:05
  And it teaches lessons in patience, character, emotional strength, um, that just you know, that adversity or or suffering never would, hence maturity.
• 49:11
  Um, that just, you know, that adversity or or suffering never would.
• 49:18
  Hence maturity.
• 49:20
  And the the meaning of suffering.
• 49:20
  And the meaning of suffering.
• 49:26
  Well, just talking about that and thinking about that and
• 49:26
  Well, just talking about that and thinking about that and implementing that implies implies wisdom.
• 49:34
  So suffering develops wisdom, which is a result of courage.
• 49:40
  That is that courage is a requirement for wisdom.
• 49:44
  Um, by acting as a powerful, yes, painful, powerful, catalyst, that breaks down these illusions, it forces introspection and fosters deep emotional and intellectual shifts that comfort would never produce.
• 50:05
  So we talked about confronting vulnerability, and a lot of psychologists would go would go into this.
• 50:13
  Confronting vulnerability, pain forces individuals to accept their limitations.
• 50:19
  It does, it really does.
• 50:21
  Um, and their own self-importance, you know, we're like dust in the wind, that that song, and it's really true.
• 50:30
  So in a way, the site, another psychologist, Eckhart Toll, notice that many of these are from the German or Germans or Austrians.
• 50:38
  It's true.
• 50:40
  Uh, just like the probably the best cars are among the best cars, BMW.
• 50:46
  Um, so what he describes is suffering as a quote, cracking open the shell of ego.
• 50:54
  Now you're really really getting into it.
• 50:56
  You're really getting into the deep deepness of this, the depth, uh, and and of course, confronting confronting vulnerability.
• 51:06
  Now, the why question, the why, that that's where wisdom uh, that's where wisdom kind of takes over.
• 51:16
  So there's uh an Israeli Jewish, I don't want to say Israel, Jewish um psychologist, Tal Ben Shar.
• 51:25
  So he what he stated was um when individuals embrace rather than reject suffering, it becomes a tool for growth.
• 51:37
  And and you know, in a way, we're stating things the same thing in different ways or using different semantics, different words, but it motivates uh a search for meaning in trying times, just like we talked about meaning, and that requires wisdom, and that strengthens wisdom.
• 51:59
  So it's the reshaping, reframing of reality, it forces a shift.
• 52:04
  Wisdom forces or accommodates for a greater propensity for not for asking why me, but asking, what did this teach me?
• 52:16
  Or how can this teach me?
• 52:18
  Uh turning pain into kind of an intellectual and emotional um inquiry, yes, but uh another ribbon on the feather or feather in the hat in terms of solidification.
• 52:33
  So development of core virtues, yeah, all of that stuff.
• 52:38
  So the bottom line is suffering leads to courage and wisdom.
• 52:42
  So uh tying together, can we tie together the meaning of pain, the and suffering, the the courage and wisdom, all these together.
• 52:55
  So our suffering is ours.
• 52:59
  It's it's it's entirely subjective, and it's very unique to our own makeup.
• 53:10
  So again, tie-in, meaning, meaning of suffering, courage, and wisdom.
• 53:15
  They're they're different, they're different for each individual person.
• 53:19
  No one can understand the pain of another person, um in the way the other knows that pain.
• 53:28
  So uh unless, unless we've gone through very similar experiences, then we couldn't much better empathize and understand.
• 53:38
  So, but the bottom line is the meaning of our pain is ours alone.
• 53:43
  It's it's a lonely thought, yeah, and it needs courage to accept, and with that courage, wisdom is built.
• 53:54
  Um, but to find meaning takes both of them.
• 53:57
  To find meaning actually takes wisdom.
• 54:02
  And wisdom, as I said, we said requires courage.
• 54:06
  Now, I'm gonna talk a little bit a little bit, and this is going to we'll go into uh a subsequent show, the Christian angle.
• 54:15
  I'm gonna start just a little bit here.
• 54:17
  So uh about that, because it it all of this, all of these things tie in together.
• 54:23
  So the Christian angle, the apostolic letter of Pope John Paul II, entitled The Christian Meaning of Human Suffering.
• 54:31
  He delivered this in Rome four decades ago, 1984, and he very, very eloquently stated, quote, human suffering has reached its culmination in the passion of Christ.
• 54:46
  At the same time, it has entered into a completely new dimension and new order, it has been linked to love, that love which creates good, drawing it out by means of suffering, just as the supreme good of the redemption of the world was drawn from the cross of Christ and from the cross constantly takes its beginning.
• 55:10
  So the interpretation of that statement for myself is that from a Christian standpoint is that uh and a number of uh Jewish individuals agree with this, that we're invited to share in his suffering by our will through our own suffering.
• 55:29
  Therefore, as with Frankel and Nietzsche, uh meaning is found in suffering.
• 55:36
  And in fact, if we go to scripture, Peter 1 uh 6, 7, uh it states here now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, that the proof of your faith being more precious than gold, which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
• 56:00
  in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
• 56:03
  So we're gonna go into that in future shows.
• 56:03
  So we're gonna go into that in future shows.
• 56:07
  Uh we're gonna have to stop right now.
• 56:07
  We're gonna have to stop right now.
• 56:10
  Thank you so much for listening.
• 56:10
  Thank you so much for listening.
• 56:12
  I enthusiastically look forward to being with you weekly on the countermomentum of the spin, where we will endeavor to address and work towards solving the problems of the world.
• 56:12
  I enthusiastically look forward to being with you weekly on the Counter Momentum to Spin where we will endeavor to address and work towards solving the problems of the world.
• 56:22
  I I know this is a a heavy, hot and heavy topic.
• 56:22
  I I know this is a a heavy, hot and heavy topic, it is, but I think it's very, very important to address.
• 56:26
  It is, but I think it's very, very important.
• 56:30
  So please note that this show and all the shows on America Out Loud Talk Radio go to your favorite podcast network within 24 hours Apple Podcast, Spotify, Pandora, tune in, Amazon, iHeartRadio, among others.
• 56:45
  Have a great day and God bless you