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📚Growing Up Is Complicated. These 5 Books Get It Exactly Right. · Friday Night Readers: Gilmore Girls Inspired Book Club

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Friday Night Readers.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Filled by coffee, we break down the books referenced on Gilmore Girls.
• 0:11
  Our little literary corner of the world helps you understand
• 0:14
  what the characters
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: are talking so fast about and live in a world of books like worry.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like short, read fast.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Before we dive in,
• 0:22
  don't forget to subscribe to our Friday Night Readers
• 0:25
  newsletter community on
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Substack.
• 0:26
  You'll get instant access to a free printable list of 450 plus
• 0:31
  books on Gilmore Girls.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Plus,
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: even more Gilmore-inspired content,
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: like our Rory Gilmore Reading Challenge,
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: which we've been doing together since 2020.
• 0:40
  Paid members get exclusive extras,
• 0:42
  like our Gilmore Girls-inspired reading journal.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: And our unofficial guide to the books on Gilmore Girls.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Come hang out where the real Gilmore magic happens.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm with Allie Hoff Cossack.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: She is a debut author.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is actually your last day of your life as an unpublished author.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know this is a lifelong goal for you.
• 1:07
  Today marks the last day and tomorrow you will be a published
• 1:10
  debut author of Too
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Blessed to Stress,
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: which is a coming of age book.
• 1:15
  So we're here to talk about that and other coming-of-age books
• 1:17
  that were on Gilmore
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Girls,
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: which is what we do around here at Friday Night Readers.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome, Allie.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I am a Gilmore Girls fan of many years,
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: and you and I have been friends and fans of each other for many years.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is a good way to celebrate a lot tonight.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like the night before you go away to college or something.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we had met many years ago.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I had pitched you.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: You were my first podcast ever.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked about Encyclopedia Brown.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: And for anyone who doesn't know,
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Ali ran SSR podcast,
• 1:47
  which is about reading books from your childhood with a new
• 1:51
  lens as an adult and in
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: modern times.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So Encyclopedia Brown fit perfect in that.
• 1:55
  And we have a lot of other books on Gilmore Girls that fit
• 1:58
  perfectly in that as well.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Rory gave us so much material to work with.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a very easy fit.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let me just read your bio real quick for anyone who is new to you.
• 2:09
  Allie Hofkosik is a writer based in Philadelphia,
• 2:12
  the former host of SSR Podcast.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Her work has been published in Marie Claire,
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Real Simple,
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Business Insider,
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: and Cosmopolitan,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Too Blessed to Stress is her first book.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I will link Allie's Instagram in the show notes.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Ali.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so happy to be here.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: So before we talk about your book,
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it would be good to talk about what is a coming of age book.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if anyone is a pro at this, it's got to be you.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: You've gone through hundreds of these childhood books.
• 2:41
  It's so interesting because I've gone through hundreds of them
• 2:43
  and also hundreds of
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: them written through so many decades and eras.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like the common thread.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: What are we writing for young people in all of these different times?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And also before, I wasn't always a category.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Middle grade wasn't always a category,
• 3:00
  so the fact that there are these common themes even before
• 3:03
  publishers are thinking
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: about books that way I think is really interesting.
• 3:06
  I think a coming-of-age book is really about some seminal
• 3:11
  moment in a young
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: person's life and there being a clear demarcation before and after.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And there can be a huge range,
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: and I think that's what was so interesting about SSR is examining books
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: All of the different things that can exist as that turning point.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, in Judy Blume's books, a lot of it is about puberty or love.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: In the book, Forever, it's about the main character losing her virginity.
• 3:34
  But there are other books where it's maybe smaller things or
• 3:38
  more fantastical things.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Entering a magical world and not knowing if you can get home again.
• 3:44
  Maybe setting out on an adventure by yourself or figuring
• 3:47
  something out on your own.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And learning something about yourself.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a huge part of coming of age because...
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's generally a lot of missing adults in a coming of age book.
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  SPEAKER_00: What I have learned,
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: my hypothesis,
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: is that when you take the adults out,
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: it forces the kids to figure themselves out.
• 4:06
  So I think a lot of it,
• 4:07
  too,
• 4:08
  is,
• 4:08
  OK,
• 4:08
  what happens when the adults fade to the background?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where you get the coming of age story.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I always think of it very similar to you, like a before and an after.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: To me,
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: the way I always say is that life is never the same again,
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: no matter what it is,
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  SPEAKER_01: whether it's just thinking differently some way,
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: whether it's a tragedy that literally does change life completely.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: I just look at it as,
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: like you said,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: that line of demarcation,
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: something before and something after.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any age range on what you think?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think coming of age really can go into adulthood.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you agree or disagree on that?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think outside of the book world,
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of us in real life still feel like we're coming of age,
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: even into our 30s.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we do it more than once.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah,
• 4:54
  I think there are middle grade coming of age stories where it's
• 4:58
  that first moment
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: of independence or self-recognition.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's these high school coming of age stories,
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: maybe those college coming of age stories where it's about...
• 5:07
  Stepping out of the rules that you once had for yourself,
• 5:10
  maybe a more literal leaving home.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then,
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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  I think sometimes we as 20-somethings and even into our early
• 5:17
  30s need to find
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: other ways to come of age.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so there are adult books that also highlight that shift.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely think it goes into adulthood.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And even I'm over 40 now,
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  so I can even say there's still things that I've never
• 5:32
  experienced before that you
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: experienced for the first time.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that really is that same sort of experience that you would have.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's a little bit more advanced,
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: but you still could look at something completely different and feel like,
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's this before and after, and you are now a new person.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And why shouldn't we keep coming of age?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the marketing of it is different from the publisher perspective.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good point.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it's... We love to always come of age, don't we?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: We should be.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Shouldn't we always have that opportunity?
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  And I understand that maybe it's not super sexy from a
• 6:04
  publishing perspective to be
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  SPEAKER_00: highlighting that as something that adults should be reading about.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: But when you really distill what most stories are...
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's always a version of coming of age.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not really part of the main pitch,
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: which is the really value proposition,
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: of a middle grade or a YA book is you're getting somebody coming of age.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't mean that it's not happening somewhere in any book.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we may see a more like a second chance romance.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: A second act, true?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's true.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's romance books.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's a coming of age if you're in a new relationship.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think friendship stories often give characters...
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: a chance to come of age, stories where people may become parents.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that I'm continuing to experience now.
• 6:44
  I almost feel like I come of age every other day when my child
• 6:48
  is doing something
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  SPEAKER_00: different and hard or stories about work.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's okay for us all to be figuring it out at all times.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, we don't always think of it in those terms of coming of age.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good point.
• 7:00
  So one of the things I thought that was interesting about this
• 7:03
  conversation and
• 7:04
  trying to tie together the books that we read on Gilmore Girls
• 7:07
  at Friday Night
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Readers and your book,
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Too Blessed to Stress,
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: which has coming-of-age themes.
• 7:11
  And I also thought it was interesting that not only does
• 7:14
  Gilmore Girls have all of
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: these coming-of-age books on the show,
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: but it also really is a coming-of-age show.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I know you're a super fan.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you see coming-of-age on Gilmore Girls?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:25
  I think Rory and Lorelai are constantly figuring life out both
• 7:30
  together and independently.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think we see at some point,
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: even later on,
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: if we're looking at all of the Gilmore girls,
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: even Emily in a year in the life,
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: whether you love it or hate it,
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  I think Emily is also coming into this new chapter of her own
• 7:45
  life at that stage
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 7:47
  I think Rory especially is trying to sort out how much does she
• 7:51
  want to stay linked
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: to this very small,
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: loving,
• 7:57
  but small and confined world that she's grown up in versus how
• 8:01
  much does she want
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: to take advantage of these other options that are offered to her?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, there are, of course, boyfriends.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they represent different parts of what that could look like.
• 8:10
  And that is,
• 8:11
  it's easy for us to grab on to the team Jeff,
• 8:13
  the team Dean,
• 8:13
  team Logan of it all.
• 8:15
  But each of them is just giving her another choice of what her
• 8:18
  life could look like
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  SPEAKER_00: as she comes of age.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And she finds a lot of that through books, which is cool.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So much of Rory's journey is driven not only by books,
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: but by other pop culture,
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: which is one of the reasons that we love her.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think why millennials in particular just can't help but
• 8:34
  attach themselves to her because it's the same references that
• 8:36
  helped us come at age.
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  SPEAKER_01: I always think of Rory as,
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: for her coming of age,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: life in the real world is so much harder than Stars Hollow.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: She was in this safe space for so long.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, she meets Mitchum Huntsberger and...
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: She goes off the rails.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: She does come back.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: But that's how I look at Rory's coming of age trajectory.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: I like how you compared it to sliding doors.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is true because even in A Year in the Life,
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: we see Jess is in there a little bit.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: I personally think A Year in the Life shows that Logan's the baby daddy.
• 9:08
  But we do see these threads of what it would look like with
• 9:11
  different people.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that it shows us that any version would probably be okay.
• 9:19
  Coming as ages may be about realizing that most paths that you
• 9:22
  pick in a version of
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: most of those paths,
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: it would be okay.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is one going to be the best choice for you?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 9:28
  But throughout the course of the series,
• 9:29
  Rory does try on all of these different paths.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: futures,
• 9:33
  which you think about when she dresses up that night for Dean
• 9:36
  and does the
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: homemaking thing,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: that one version of that story.
• 9:40
  She does the more rebellious thing for Jess when she skips her
• 9:43
  mom's graduation.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I go on and on.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to go toe-to-toe with everybody on Gilmore Girls for you.
• 9:48
  But I also think I love what you said about Rory gets out into
• 9:52
  the real world and
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: realizes how hard it is.
• 9:54
  It's something that I think about a lot because I was such a
• 9:58
  stress case in high school and
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was a disaster.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought that everything was so high stakes.
• 10:05
  I thought that every choice that I made was going to dictate my
• 10:07
  whole future.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I could not possibly work hard enough.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why I connected with Rory so much.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is somebody who gets it.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is somebody who understands why I'm so stressed out all the time and
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: understands why my friends and I care so much about all this stuff.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it is so interesting to get to the other side of it.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: along with Rory, because, of course, she's also taken that journey.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you realize, okay, that stuff, it wasn't that high stakes.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And all of this other stuff is actually way harder.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was very much like Rory too.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that people like me and you and Rory,
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: we think that we can academically work our way through life.
• 10:45
  Then you get to life and realize,
• 10:47
  oh no,
• 10:47
  we're actually not prepared for this.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And this is really hard.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And there are a lot of gray areas.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:53
  And you wish you could academically work yourself through life
• 10:56
  because for so many
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: years,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: it's yes.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you can do well in school,
• 11:01
  then you're going to move to the next stage and people will
• 11:03
  tell you're doing a good job.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the next step is probably also going to go well.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then something changes and it's not that simple.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And before we move on,
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to know,
• 11:13
  I loved how you talked about Emily coming into her own because
• 11:16
  I really see a year
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: in the life as Emily's story.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked about how coming of age really can happen at any age.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think she's the perfect example of that.
• 11:25
  And I also wanted to make note of Lane because Lane's story is
• 11:30
  very religious
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: undertones or maybe overtoned,
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: you would say.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: To me, her coming of age story is balancing religion with real life.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's also a theme in Too Blessed to Stress.
• 11:41
  So what do you think of Lane's religious and life journey and
• 11:45
  coming of age on the show?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Of course,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: talking about Emily,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: I would be remiss if I did not wish Kelly Bishop a happy birthday.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Is it today or yesterday?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: I believe it was Saturday.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: We should be celebrating all week.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Happy birthday, Kelly Bishop.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:59
  So yes,
• 12:00
  there is some serious Lane energy happening in Too Blessed to
• 12:04
  Stress,
• 12:04
  I think.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't have the word for it when I was watching the show.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: But what we see Lane doing in Gilmore Girls is deconstructing.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: She's deconstructing what she learned spiritually,
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: religiously,
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: even just in terms of the rules of her family and her house.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about her faith.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's about her household.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually, I had a Lane when I was in high school.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I talked about this a little bit on the podcast miniseries I did,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: BTS to BTS,
• 12:32
  and how I realized all these years later that one of my best
• 12:34
  friends in high school
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: was much more involved in her church than I knew at the time.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the vocab words that she was using,
• 12:43
  I didn't realize until all these years later were wrapped up in
• 12:48
  this megachurch
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: evangelical world that I would one day explore.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think maybe without realizing it,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: when I was watching Gilmore Girls,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was making that connection.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a lane.
• 12:58
  And I think a lot of reflecting on that experience helped bring
• 13:02
  me to Too Blessed to Stress.
• 13:04
  But we see her discovering this other part of herself
• 13:07
  throughout the series.
• 13:08
  And I did try to get to that in different ways,
• 13:10
  like with the characters in my book.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yes,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: that is,
• 13:12
  I would say each of the characters in my book deconstruct to
• 13:17
  different degrees and
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: in different ways.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Much like Layne.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: with an open-heartedness to the world and with the help of their friends,
• 13:25
  because so much of Lane's journey is about Rory and Lorelai and
• 13:29
  his community
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: that...
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: loves and supports her.
• 13:33
  I think it makes sense that you had a lane in your life because
• 13:36
  I can see how the
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: way you described it,
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: that she used words that you didn't know were religious words.
• 13:41
  I could see how you would then hear them later and then that
• 13:45
  would make you
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: intrigued to learn even more.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my antenna popped up when I saw those words again on social media.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, I love the comparison that you made to Lane and my characters.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe we can talk about the plot of To Bless Distress.
• 14:02
  It is a book that delves into four different religious
• 14:06
  influencers who are in a megachurch.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And in this process of being online,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: because being online is also part of it,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: they are coming into their own in different ways.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: They all have different struggles and they're dealing with issues.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And this might sound very salacious, but
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I actually just think it's juicy without being salacious.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: It could sound judgmental, but it's really not.
• 14:28
  The tone that I thought it took was a very observational,
• 14:31
  almost journalist-like tone.
• 14:33
  You are just getting into the minds and lives of these four
• 14:36
  young women and
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: presenting it to the reader like a social commentary.
• 14:40
  And I think that you maintained a very nice light tone,
• 14:44
  which makes it good.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're coming into spring break.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Our readers aren't really escapism readers.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually think this is perfect for them because it's light,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: but it also has all that social commentary that makes you think.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I do think this would make a good spring break book for our readers.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually read it over summer vacation myself.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Even just talking to you now all these months later,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: it just makes me think of my time at the pool.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's that little mix of light making you think and book club vibes,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: but also not being too heavy and not preachy at all.
• 15:14
  It's really just presenting their lives for you and then think
• 15:18
  what you want from that.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: The word that I hope people use to describe it as fresh more than light,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: because I think I really tried to approach it
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: with this very specific, distinct voice that's very of the time.
• 15:32
  But I do think that influencers and the influencer world are
• 15:36
  too often written off
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: as silly or just the stuff of reality TV.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it is so much more influential, for lack of a better word than that.
• 15:49
  It matters so much more than that because so many of the things
• 15:53
  that we think and talk about
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: start online and start with very well-intentioned
• 16:00
  movements and conversations that small groups are bringing to
• 16:05
  the table on
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Instagram and TikTok primarily.
• 16:07
  So I wanted to blend this very zeitgeisty topic with fresh
• 16:14
  characters that are very
• 16:16
  distinct and very nuanced and well-rounded with a subject that
• 16:21
  I think is often
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: underestimated in terms of its importance.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was very careful not to make it too salacious.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: I always say that my number one rule is
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:51
  So I wanted it to be a little bit more complicated and I wanted
• 16:55
  it to feel very
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: observational and in the vein of social commentary.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I studied journalism.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Journalism is how I was taught to see the world.
• 17:03
  And I put these four characters together based on a ton of
• 17:06
  observation and research.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: I really did not want to be punching down.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: That was not my goal.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've been very clear about
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: When I talk about the book in the acknowledgments,
• 17:18
  I am personally in an opposition with a lot of the ideas and
• 17:23
  beliefs that the
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: characters,
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: that the people that my characters are based on talk about.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Their politics are in direct opposition to mine.
• 17:30
  But I connected with these people when I was researching them
• 17:34
  in other ways.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that's what the interesting part was.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: How do I find...
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: What draws me to them?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: What do I have in common with them?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: What do my friends have in common with them?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I just wanted to write that.
• 17:48
  What are their stories separate from the church that are just
• 17:52
  as important to them?
• 17:52
  How do those things dovetail with the church,
• 17:54
  but also make us all relate to each other?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think that has...
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: yielded a book that does,
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: by all accounts so far,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: it doesn't seem to give a judgmental tone,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: no punching down,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: no preaching on either side.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is what's happening.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is how the characters decide to approach it.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And what do we think about that?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Bring it to your book club.
• 18:17
  It is,
• 18:17
  I think,
• 18:17
  a great book club book because there's a lot of room to discuss
• 18:21
  it.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: how everybody handles themselves on the page.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think the way I would describe it as social commentary,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: and I saw that Olivia Montar just joined.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I, Olivia, first of all, she's one of my favorite authors and podcasters.
• 18:34
  But one of the things I had in my notes,
• 18:37
  and the timing's funny that she just joined because...
• 18:40
  I found that Philly-based authors have written a lot about
• 18:44
  social commentary.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: So there's you.
• 18:46
  Olivia lived in Philly for a while,
• 18:47
  and her new book,
• 18:49
  Little One,
• 18:49
  is about a food cult.
• 18:51
  And then Joe Piazza,
• 18:52
  everything she does is pretty much some sort of social
• 18:54
  commentary.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then I know Kylie Reid was a mentor or teacher to you.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: And Such a Fun Age was also in that.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think that Philly has anything to do with it?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So funny.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't made that connection before, but I think you're right.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can't claim, I've only been in Philly for a couple of years.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I cannot claim Philly as I feel I need to have a couple more years.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: I lived in New York for about 10 years.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: I lived in Philly for about five, almost six.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: I do think that cities like Philly and New York, maybe Boston too.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think we are, we can be a skeptical group.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: people.
• 19:33
  I think we pay attention in different ways,
• 19:37
  which is not to say that other people don't.
• 19:39
  I think we are just,
• 19:41
  we look at the world with a little bit of,
• 19:42
  I don't know,
• 19:43
  prove it to us.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that's necessarily such a bad thing.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we also had weather.
• 19:50
  We probably spend a lot more time on our phones and talking
• 19:52
  about what we're seeing.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's funny.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking to a friend last week about she's switching jobs.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, oh, we liked your last job, didn't you?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: This was a remote job.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: So people were from all around the world.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, I don't really like the vibe or the culture.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: People were into themselves.
• 20:09
  And I said,
• 20:10
  I can totally see that because Philly is a place where we just
• 20:13
  are who we are.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's part of it, too.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I learned the most from Kylie,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: because I was lucky enough to work very closely with her in grad school,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: is,
• 20:24
  and she is the master of writing about the awkwardness of human
• 20:28
  interactions and
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: subtext around things like class and race and money.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: She loves to write about money.
• 20:34
  Nobody likes to write about what it actually means to make
• 20:37
  different amounts of
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: money than Kylie Reid.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think these cities are places where we see that
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: on display.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: And there's not that much separation.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of mixing of people.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we know people who come from all different backgrounds.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so maybe we're more attuned to that part of it,
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: too,
• 20:55
  because that's where the juicy stuff in fiction and in dynamics
• 20:59
  between characters
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: happen is the subtext.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Why does that make us cringe?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And why are we all so uncomfortable?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's interesting, I think.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really what people are going to get in too blessed to stress.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I tried.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I hope so.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely loved writing those little moments between characters.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: This book does not take place in either of these cities.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: It actually takes place in Charlotte, North Carolina.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a departure.
• 21:24
  I will say the people I know who have read it from Charlotte
• 21:28
  say that it is pretty
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: accurate to the experience of living there.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm happy about that.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: But my favorite moments in the book are...
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Just these little conversations among the girls.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's a brunch scene that was the most fun to write.
• 21:43
  And something that Kylie really pushed me to do is to pay
• 21:46
  attention to what's
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: happening outside of the big moments and scenes like that.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, that's where the juicy stuff happens.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's not always a big flashy conversation.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on around the perimeter of that conversation?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And why does that matter?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: So on that note,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's actually the perfect note for my next question,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: which is how do you look at coming of age in the four girls in this book?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: These are all characters who are in their early to mid 20s.
• 22:13
  There's one character who is just out of college and her arc is
• 22:16
  probably the most
• 22:18
  obviously coming of age because she is in her first job and
• 22:22
  really learning how to
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: operate outside of college.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: a competitive swimming environment, which has ruled her life forever.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so she very clearly is coming of age in this book.
• 22:32
  But I think all of the characters are figuring out how to
• 22:35
  navigate new parts of
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: adulthood,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: finances,
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: relationships,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: health challenges,
• 22:41
  All of these things that they probably never saw coming for
• 22:44
  themselves when they were younger.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And like we were saying with Rory earlier,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: whatever they were dealing with in high school was way easier than this.
• 22:49
  They didn't expect that they would be dealing with any of this
• 22:52
  stuff when they were younger.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're going through that.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And in the case of this book,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: they're also figuring out how much that jives or doesn't with that.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: this faith system that they have plugged into.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And also they're trying to figure out how much of it they wanna share.
• 23:07
  And I love that tension in the book about what's the overlap
• 23:12
  between what we make public
• 23:16
  And what is our relationship with God and the being that we
• 23:21
  think made us?
• 23:22
  And so I think in addition to just dealing with what's
• 23:25
  happening in the world,
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: these characters are reckoning with those questions.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: What does this mean for what I believe?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And how much of this do I want to share with the public?
• 23:34
  And those are things that make them maybe a little bit
• 23:37
  different than characters
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: that are just living in the normal world and coming of age in their 20s.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that perfectly describes it.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's coming of age in the context of influencing and religion.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Which is hard to do if you think of different issues.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: They're trying to figure out what are they going to comment on?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: What are they going to take a stand on?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think about the most popular influencers in real life,
• 24:01
  religious or otherwise,
• 24:02
  these are people who are in their 20s,
• 24:04
  often their early 20s.
• 24:06
  I would not particularly want to be coming of age in my early
• 24:10
  20s on that public of a stage.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, these people have made that decision.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I think to our conversation before,
• 24:16
  we often think that we have come of age by the time we hit our
• 24:20
  early to mid 20s.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: But we're probably going to come of age again and again.
• 24:23
  And that's a surprise,
• 24:25
  I would imagine,
• 24:26
  for people who are on such a big stage.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone came by to Bless Distress.
• 24:33
  We also decided to talk about four coming-of-age books that
• 24:36
  were on Gilmore Girls.
• 24:38
  And the way I did it was I looked through SSR Podcast to see
• 24:42
  which ones you had
• 24:43
  also read because I thought that would be fun and I can link
• 24:45
  your episodes.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: And those episodes were great.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I listened to all of them to prepare for today.
• 24:50
  So we're going to talk about four that were really popular with
• 24:54
  my readers at
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Friday Night Readers who read the books on Gilmore Girls,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: but that you also read on SSR Podcast.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love a list.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I haven't listened to these episodes in a long time.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be fun to talk about them.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's going to jog your memory because I took down some notes.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to talk about Huck Finn.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I noted that your husband describes him as Ferris Bueller.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
• 25:15
  Which is so weird because my husband famously had never seen
• 25:19
  Ferris Bueller before
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: we got together.
• 25:20
  So I am trying to remember what made him think that was maybe
• 25:24
  he was just trying to
• 25:25
  be cool because he knows that movie is really important to me
• 25:27
  and my family.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: As it is to so many people in their families.
• 25:30
  He described it in the way that Huck goes on an adventure and
• 25:33
  it's like a Ferris
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Bueller adventure.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And Ferris Bueller is not the most likable character.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you can have those same questions about Huck as well.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, I'll give him that.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: That was a good comparison.
• 25:45
  So I do want to give a plot description of Adventures of
• 25:48
  Huckleberry Finn,
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: and this is by Mark Twain in 1884.
• 25:52
  Huck Finn runs away from his abusive father and travels down
• 25:55
  the Mississippi River
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: with Jim,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: a man who has escaped enslavement.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Along the way,
• 25:59
  Huck and Jim encounter conmen feeding families and the
• 26:02
  hypocrisy of pre-Civil War
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Southern society.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And on Gilmore Girls, we see this in several episodes.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: It is actually the first book ever mentioned on the show.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it is also in Rory's famous graduation speech.
• 26:15
  So I'm wondering what your thoughts are on Hook Finn and why it
• 26:20
  was on Gilmore Girls.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think I probably picked that book because most people,
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: even if they haven't read it,
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: they have some context for it.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I do think there are some books included because...
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of other reference points for it.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: And even people who aren't readers have heard maybe a joke about a book.
• 26:38
  It's interesting now because the book has taken on so many
• 26:40
  other more controversial
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: conversations,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: things about language.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And of course,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: the dynamic between Huck and Jim is so much more complicated,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: than most of us ever gave it credit for if ASP were writing it now.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: there'd be some more nuance.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: There was the movie that came out in the 90s.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: People get it.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's the first book mentioned in the series.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's, oh, okay, I recognize that.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I read it in school or I saw Huck.
• 27:05
  So I was also thinking that Lee Sherman Palladino created the
• 27:09
  show when he was at
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: the Mark Twain house.
• 27:11
  So I wondered if that was the reason she wanted Huck Finn to be
• 27:16
  the first book.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a beautiful homage.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: I like that point.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good point.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so we'll go with that.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you think about coming of age in Huck Finn?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about it a little bit in the context of Ferris Bueller.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: From what I remember,
• 27:30
  I think that so much of Huck's journey is not only about the
• 27:33
  physical adventure of
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: taking this journey with Jim,
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: but it's about...
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Meeting somebody who is very different than he is,
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: but more than that,
• 27:42
  somebody who is very different than who he has been told that
• 27:45
  somebody like him
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: might be.
• 27:47
  And starting to reorient himself to how he feels about that and
• 27:52
  what that might
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: mean for his perspective going forward.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And like we were talking about before, this is a world in which...
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Huck's typical adult influences are no longer available to him.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the problematic things about Huckman,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: if I'm remembering correctly,
• 28:09
  is that Jim is really treated as a child in the way that he's
• 28:13
  written and in their
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: relationship.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: So Jim is an adult.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: There are adults in this book.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: But the way it's written,
• 28:20
  I think it's like Huck's going to go off and figure out how to
• 28:22
  be an adult.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's with an adult.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think at the core,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: probably the way that Mark Twain wrote it,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: it's okay,
• 28:28
  here's a little boy who has to go figure out how he wants to
• 28:34
  see people who are
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: different than he is when others aren't telling him what to think.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so in terms of the way Quayne wrote it,
• 28:43
  I think it's interesting that Ernest Hemingway called it the
• 28:46
  great American novel.
• 28:47
  And part of the reason is because of the way he wrote it with
• 28:50
  the dialect.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm wondering, do you see this as the great American novel?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can be honest if you don't think so.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't think so.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know that I believe in the great American novel.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that when we deem something the great American novel...
• 29:08
  We are robbing a lot of other novels of the recognition that
• 29:12
  they deserve.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if I learned anything in publishing,
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: and of course it's different now than it's always evolving,
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: but it's really hard to get a book published.
• 29:22
  And it's really hard even once you get a book published to get
• 29:24
  people to care about it.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I guess...
• 29:29
  I don't necessarily buy the fact that novel isn't a book that
• 29:32
  was published and
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: like nobody ever found out about it or a book that,
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:36
  is waiting in somebody's drawer somewhere because they weren't
• 29:40
  able to publish it.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know that I believe in it.
• 29:43
  But if we are going to buy into the idea that there is a great
• 29:46
  American novel,
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: this isn't it for me.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
• 29:50
  I like the way you described it because I just always thought
• 29:53
  of The Great Gatsby
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: as the great American novel.
• 29:55
  But I like your description because you know how sometimes
• 30:00
  there will be this cute
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: little story where a book takes off on TikTok that like,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: my dad wrote this book and no one read it.
• 30:06
  And then all of a sudden,
• 30:07
  the great American novel could be anywhere right now.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I guess if you want to call my book the great American novel, fine.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I just think we should always be making space for...
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: what somebody else is going to consider the next great American novel.
• 30:20
  Our culture is always shifting so much that I think we need a
• 30:24
  different book at different times.
• 30:27
  And so I think the book that we need as the great American
• 30:30
  novel is going to shift over time.
• 30:32
  Yeah,
• 30:32
  that's a good point,
• 30:33
  too,
• 30:33
  that we want to continue to consider things as time progresses.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: You read Huck Finn with your husband a few years ago for your podcast.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of my absolute first classic novels that I read.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I read it in ninth grade as required reading.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's when I read it first.
• 30:50
  So I thought it was interesting that I always looked at Huck
• 30:53
  Finn more in that time
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: as the adventure of it.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it was really more when James came out,
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: which is Percival Everett's Pulitzer Prize winning novel,
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: which came out,
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: 2024.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: That is James' version of the story.
• 31:08
  I think that's when I really put those coming of age themes
• 31:13
  into context of what I
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: read when I was a child.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: What a twist in that book.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a good twist.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent on audio.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we can move on.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: We have Catcher in the Rye by J.D.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Salinger is next.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And after being expelled from prep school,
• 31:31
  Holton Caulfield wanders around New York City feeling
• 31:33
  disconnected from the
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: phoniness of the adult world.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: As he struggles with grief and loneliness,
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: he reveals his fear of growing up and losing innocence.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And on Gilmore Girls, this is a great reference.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Rory calls Jess Holden Caulfield.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Could any reference ever be better?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it is also on Rory's and Paris's banned books poster.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: So my first question to you is, do you think of Jess as Holden Caulfield?
• 31:58
  I do,
• 31:59
  but as you read the description of him,
• 32:02
  I'm reminded that I think all three...
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Of the main guys are Colton Caulfield in different ways.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Logan has the prep school thing.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And his disagreement with his family.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: And he's a black sheep in a wealthy family.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Jess is obvious that he has just like a Holden vibe.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Rebel, disillusioned, angsty.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but Dean has that too.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Especially toward the end,
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: the Lindsay era,
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: which it's hard to reconcile with early seasons,
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Dean.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think Dean has a little bit of a Holden thing going on too.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: He's a hot, mysterious guy.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I never would have thought of it until you said it.
• 32:44
  But one of the things that rings most true to me about Dean is
• 32:47
  how sassy he is with
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: adults like Laura.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's very Holden.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that maybe Rory's type is just Holden.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think we came to a really big realization right now.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: You all heard it here first.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I do think Jess is Holden, but I think they all are.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's just what Rory is drawn to.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe it's what Amy Sherman Palladino is drawn to as a writer.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved when I listened back to your SSR podcast episode,
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: you compared Holden to Gossip Girl.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm actually watching Gossip Girl for the first time right now.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely love that reference.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it does feel very Gossip Girl.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: I probably read it maybe last year toward the end of 2024.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was the first time I'd read it.
• 33:29
  I think that often in Gilmore Girls is a great example where I
• 33:33
  knew that it was a
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: book that was referenced quite a bit,
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: but I just took it for granted.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And my guests and I both were like, oh, this guy.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: He is so annoying,
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: which I actually think is a great,
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: it speaks to what we were just talking about,
• 33:49
  how the great American novel changes because for a lot of
• 33:52
  people and for many
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: years,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: this was the great American novel.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is the great American novel.
• 33:56
  But for a lot of us,
• 33:57
  especially in 2025,
• 33:59
  2026,
• 33:59
  this guy is not what we need.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: He is not the energy that we are looking for.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: He's just this disillusioned, rich dude.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do we think he actually comes of age and how?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think he thinks he does.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think that's it.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think he does.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: And do we know if this is the most required read?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think so, too.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Which is deeply upsetting to me.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're not a fan.
• 34:29
  No,
• 34:30
  if anything,
• 34:31
  I'd probably softened toward it because I have some distance.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: But we were mad about this book.
• 34:36
  I'm pretty soft about it because we talked about the Great
• 34:39
  American Novel and how
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: that looks in different years,
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: but it also looks different in different ages.
• 34:46
  And I think that's why I'm soft to Catcher in the Rye because
• 34:50
  so many teenagers can
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: identify with Holden Caulfield.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do think that's true.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where he suggests.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can think about it better in 2006 when I was a teenager.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: He is the emo kid who...
• 35:03
  is constantly listening to his iPod and listening to Jack's
• 35:07
  mannequin or whatever,
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: feeling his feelings.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's a version of that, no matter the time or place.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that way, I think Holden is timeless.
• 35:15
  But I just think that his concerns and his views on the world
• 35:19
  and the way he talks
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: about women,
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: hard pass for me.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: You have a good memory.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that sticks out for sure.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: So why don't we move on to Dini?
• 35:30
  We cannot talk about coming of age without talking about Judy
• 35:33
  Blume and her book
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: that is on Gilmore Girls is Dini.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: This was written in 1973.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the way we see this on Gilmore Girls is two times.
• 35:41
  One is that Lorelai says that she read this while she was
• 35:43
  pregnant with Rory.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think she said she read it...
• 36:00
  either on the way to the hospital to give birth or in the
• 36:03
  hospital giving birth.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: And April also read it.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was April was wearing a brace.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is the context in which she read it.
• 36:12
  So I just think it's interesting thinking about Gilmore Girls
• 36:15
  and Judy Blume and
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: how belonging she is on that list.
• 36:19
  Do you have any thoughts on why this book was selected above
• 36:23
  all of Judy Blume's
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: catalog,
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: including Are You There,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: God,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's Me,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Margaret,
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: which we know they would have read?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's an interesting fun fact.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if it was just Amy Sherman Palladino trying to be offbeat.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I thought.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: When I thought about it, Dini is a fun word.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: It is a fun word.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: I also think that Dini is like the scoliosis book,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: but it's also the Judy Blume masturbation book.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if including a mention of it in the show was...
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Amy Sherman Palladino's nod.
• 36:56
  This was an important thing that Judy Blume put on the page for
• 37:00
  young readers.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a huge reason why the book has been banned.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of Judy Blume's most banned books, I think.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: And for that reason, a lot of people haven't read it or even heard of it.
• 37:09
  So I wonder if it was ASP's nod to this should be a thing that
• 37:13
  we can talk about to teenagers.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: That could be it.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't heard of it until Gilmore Girls either.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a good one.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it is.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a fun fact about it.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually recorded an episode about Dini.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was one of the very first episodes I recorded of the podcast in 2018.
• 37:34
  And my guest would not lean into the conversation about
• 37:37
  masturbation and about the
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: book being about that.
• 37:41
  And it was one of two episodes that I never pushed live because
• 37:45
  that is the meat of the book.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it is so controversial.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, scoliosis is...
• 37:51
  This ever-present fear that I think we are taught to be on
• 37:54
  guard for in schools,
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: especially if you grew up when we did,
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: when there were those checks all the time.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: But this is what Judy wanted us to talk about.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that was what Amy Sherman-Palladino was going for.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 38:06
  and Jenna Bush Hager always says when she talks about her
• 38:09
  children reading books
• 38:10
  that she would rather them read from Judy Blume than go on
• 38:14
  Google or go on YouTube.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we appreciate Judy Blume for that.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate her for so many things.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited for her biography.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's on my list.
• 38:23
  I heard Molly Ringwald narrates the audio,
• 38:25
  so I'm probably going to get that version.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's on my list when I'm on tour.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to allow myself to shop at the Indies where I'm on tour,
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: and I think that might be one of the books I buy.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: I actually just went to Judy Blume's bookstore in Kiwa.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: She was not there, but I'm glad she wasn't there.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have this thing.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: I went to Parnassus Books.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to meet my heroes.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Ann Patrick's a hero.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Judy Blume is a hero.
• 38:49
  I am totally cool with just going and visiting and buying a
• 38:52
  signed copy and just
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: enjoying that experience.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: I would be so nervous meeting either of them.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: They were both giants to me.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're amazing.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when I went to Parnassus and Patchett wasn't there,
• 39:04
  but I was very excited to meet the store dogs because I had the
• 39:10
  fangirl moment
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: about one of the store dogs.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't meet the dog, but I got a dog sticker.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: I like to get a sticker at every bookstore and then put it on my laptop.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I got the dog with a Parnassus book sign.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's really cute.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's Sparky, right?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sparky Van Devender?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: My big dog celebrity at that store was Mary Todd Lincoln Hoffman.
• 39:32
  This was a long time ago,
• 39:34
  so I don't know if she's still with us,
• 39:35
  but she was perfect.
• 39:37
  And so as we talk about Dini and we talk about that Dini was
• 39:43
  all about acceptance
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: and she had to go through the scoliosis.
• 39:47
  She wanted to be a model and she had scoliosis and it really
• 39:50
  impacted her self-esteem.
• 39:52
  And I think it actually makes sense in a modern context and in
• 39:56
  the context of your
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: book,
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: because I thought about it.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: How do these books from the 1970s relate to children today?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so many children want to be influencers today.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think that there is...
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Something that modern children can take about influencing from Dini.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I think influencers are the modern models.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: And when Dini was written,
• 40:19
  it was in this time when the ultimate goal was to be discovered
• 40:24
  as a model.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: There was this whole culture,
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: and I remember reading about it somewhere,
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: maybe while I was researching for the episode,
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: but there's this whole cottage industry around being discovered.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't have that anymore, but we definitely have influencing.
• 40:37
  And I think any kid who is posting videos of themselves doing
• 40:41
  skincare or posting
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: hauls or whatever it is,
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: maybe they're hoping that they'll be discovered.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the corollary to that now is just getting shared a lot.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you tag the right person and they share the video.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: So in some ways, it's easier to achieve that level of fame.
• 40:58
  And I would imagine there's so many more ways that your
• 41:01
  insecurities could get in
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: your way if you're choosing to live your life online as a kid.
• 41:07
  I think it shows you're thinking about finding acceptance of
• 41:11
  yourself and finding
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: that courage to do the things that you really want to do as a teen.
• 41:18
  Yeah,
• 41:18
  and I think also Dini's whole life has been about being told
• 41:23
  how pretty she is.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: She's beautiful.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens when this thing that's entirely out of your control,
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: her scoliosis specifically,
• 41:30
  what happens when that makes you question a truth that you've
• 41:34
  always assumed about
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: yourself?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that is universal.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 41:39
  that's a really unique coming-of-age theme that I didn't even
• 41:42
  think about in terms
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: of this book.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: But it's right on point.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we have our last book, which I think is the most fun to talk about.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: I loved your podcast episode on it.
• 41:54
  And if anyone listens to any of the four,
• 41:56
  I think that this is the one to listen to.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's also our most popular pick on our Rory Gilmore Reading Challenge.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: It is The Outsiders by S.E.N., which was written in 1967.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: And Ponyboy Curtis,
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: a member of the working class breezers,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: becomes caught in violent conflict with the wealthier socials.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: After a tragic incident forces him into hiding,
• 42:17
  he begins to see beyond social divisions and gains a deeper
• 42:20
  understanding of
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: loyalty,
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: loss,
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: and growing up.
• 42:23
  And I think most people who are Gilmore Girls fans will recall
• 42:27
  some of the references.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: We have the puffs, which Lorelai calls them the social.
• 42:32
  And then another great moment is between Rory and Dean going—I
• 42:36
  believe it was on
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: the way to the dance—
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: where they bridge the gap.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: They talk about the movie versus the book.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that totally makes sense where Rory says, call me pony boy.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then Dean calls her pony boy.
• 42:48
  And I think Dean is always trying to impress Rory and like
• 42:52
  things that she likes.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe he wouldn't read the book, but he did watch the movie.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought that was cute.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: I had never read The Outsiders.
• 43:00
  I think most of my familiarity with it was actually from
• 43:05
  watching Gilmore Girls so
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: many times over the years and hearing Ponyway so many times.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was my primary connection before.
• 43:13
  And I remember going into reading that book and being like,
• 43:17
  this book isn't going to be for me.
• 43:18
  It's about a bunch of teenage guys at a completely different
• 43:23
  time and place.
• 43:25
  I ended up really loving it and then learning so much about the
• 43:28
  author who was a
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: teenage girl,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: which is like a twist.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Who knew that Essie Hinton was a teenage girl?
• 43:35
  Because who better to write about coming of age than someone
• 43:38
  who is coming of age?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why the book resonates.
• 43:42
  And I really love the fact that she put herself in this very
• 43:46
  traditionally male
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: space and mindset and wrote a book that
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: went on to influence so many teenagers over the years.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: I believe she was only 16 at the time she wrote it.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I love how she wove the themes in.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: They talk about Stay Gold and Ponyboy.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that comes from Nothing Gold Can Stay, which is a Robert Frost poem.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all about how...
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: when leaves bloom,
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: their first color is gold,
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: but it's the hardest to hold,
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: that they very quickly turn other shades.
• 44:20
  And I thought that was really interesting in the context of
• 44:22
  coming of age because
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: it really is that change from childhood to adulthood.
• 44:27
  So I thought that was just so smart for a 16-year-old to
• 44:30
  include that in the book.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she was clearly brilliant and so well read.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the kids in this book see so much heavy stuff.
• 44:38
  So I think if you want to talk about coming of age in this
• 44:40
  literal sense of how do
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: you handle hard things when they're thrown your way,
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: the Outsiders nails it.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: to me,
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: this is more traditional,
• 44:49
  how I traditionally think of coming of age because they're
• 44:51
  dealing with tragedy.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of coming of age,
• 44:55
  there really is something that is that big momentous thing that
• 44:58
  happens where
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: clearly nothing can ever be the same again.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, it can be more subtle as well.
• 45:04
  But traditionally,
• 45:05
  I think the way we see it most is through those really big
• 45:08
  moments.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: And they certainly had those.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the community is really changed in this book.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: The things that happen are, they impact everyone.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we certainly also have kids figuring this all out on their own.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: If anywhere, it is in the outsiders that we see kids acting as adults.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Were there any adults?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so,
• 45:30
  but I do think 15 or 16 or even 13 or 14 in whatever year this
• 45:36
  book came out is so
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: different than in 2026,
• 45:39
  which was also something that was interesting about SSR overall
• 45:43
  was seeing
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: How different,
• 45:46
  how the same age might be depicted in such different ways by
• 45:50
  authors at different
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: points in history.
• 45:54
  And what I liked about this book that I can compare to Too
• 45:58
  Blessed to Stress is
• 45:59
  that I thought she did such a good job of giving teens a lesson
• 46:04
  without making it
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: sound preachy.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really what you did, too.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I hope so.
• 46:09
  And I also think there's a real intimacy in the friendships and
• 46:13
  the outsiders.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: a softness, especially among young boys, which we see all too rarely.
• 46:19
  And I tried to get to the heart of that in my book too,
• 46:22
  some real softness in relationships.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I definitely see that in both of them.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: So speaking of Too Blessed to Stress,
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: and speaking of moving into your big publication day,
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: where can readers find the book and find you?
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you can find the book anywhere books are sold.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: I personally am a huge fan of indie bookstores and bookshop.org.
• 46:43
  If you don't have access to an indie near you,
• 46:45
  but you can get the book anywhere books are sold.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can find me on Instagram at Allie Hoff Classic.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can find me online at aliafclassic.com.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: There are tabs on my website for my podcasts, my sub stack.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then there is a tab for the book and book events.
• 47:02
  So if you want to find out where else I'm traveling over the
• 47:04
  next couple of weeks,
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: that will be there.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love to hear from you.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking of Indies, will it also be on LibroFM?
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the audiobook is wonderful.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's a full cast.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have had a lot of fun reading it,
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: which is saying a lot because it's weird to listen to your own words,
• 47:20
  but I've really enjoyed the experience and I am so pleased with
• 47:25
  how these voice
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: actors have brought my characters to life.
• 47:29
  So it'll be on Libra FM,
• 47:30
  it'll be on Audible,
• 47:30
  all the places where you get your audiobooks.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we love a full cast.
• 47:36
  Yeah, me too.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Allie, so it's great chatting with you about coming of age.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you for having me.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, everybody, for tuning in.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's really fun.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: All right, bye.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening to Friday Night Readers.
• 47:52
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• 47:56
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• 47:58
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• 48:02
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• 48:05
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• 48:08
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• 48:10
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• 48:14
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• 48:19
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• 48:28
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• 48:29
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• 48:31
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• 48:34
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• 48:36
  which helps me provide you with more content like this.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, life's short.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: Read fast.