Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Is The Social Media Ban Already Failing?

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Is The Social Media Ban Already Failing? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, this is the Happy Family's podcast Doctor's Desk Thursday edition.
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  Speaker 1: I wouldn't you know it. The social media inter age
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: legislation is not working out quite so well. It's not
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  Speaker 1: going the way we'd all hoped it would go. The
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  Speaker 1: government has not quite done the job that it's supposed to.
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  Speaker 1: I've heard a whisper along the grapevine that there are
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  Speaker 1: some legal proceedings occurring with the big platforms not doing
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  Speaker 1: their job. More on that shortly in our Doctor's Desk
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  Speaker 1: episode and what it means for you as a parent.
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  Speaker 1: Plus Dutch children are the happiest in the world. We'll
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  Speaker 1: find out why with brand new research pointing out what
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  Speaker 1: we can do to follow the Dutch at least a
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  Speaker 1: little bit and help our kids and us to be happier.
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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Famili's podcast. More next, stay with us.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families podcast, where you
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: get real parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: most downloaded parenting podcasts where Justin and Kytie Coulson and Kytie.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to go fast today. We've got too I
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  Speaker 1: repeat two big studies to talk about champing in the
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  Speaker 1: bit to get into this one, and I can see
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  Speaker 1: the enthusiasm writ large on your face because you're so
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  Speaker 1: excited about these to which one do you want to
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  Speaker 1: do first? The social media stuff and let's talk about
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  Speaker 1: what's going on with the minimum age legislation, or should
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  Speaker 1: we talk about Dutch kids being happy and how ours
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  Speaker 1: aren't quite as happy?
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  Speaker 2: No, we're going to start with the the rip the
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  Speaker 2: band aid.
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  Speaker 1: Hear I can hear the misery in your voice.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I'm a little bit sick, not just that having
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  Speaker 2: me a hard time.
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  Speaker 1: We talk about social media all the time, seriously.
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  Speaker 2: Like like the bane of a parent's life right now.
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  Speaker 1: Parenting is dealing with children on screens in twenty twenty six.
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  Speaker 2: So you're a really big agitator for the social media ban,
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  Speaker 2: recognizing that we need to do something more to protect
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  Speaker 2: our kids. But you also were very vocal in acknowledging
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  Speaker 2: that you didn't think it was going to work, in
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  Speaker 2: spite of agitating for a change and a need for protection.
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  Speaker 2: So what's the research saying now?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so thank you the British Medical Journal, the BMJ,
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  Speaker 1: high profile journal. This one matters, brand new research just
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  Speaker 1: published in the last What was it twenty fourth of June,
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  Speaker 1: so in the last month this has just come out
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  Speaker 1: brand new, really important, assessing early effects of Australia's Social
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  Speaker 1: Media Minimum Age Act on adolescents social media use. It's
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  Speaker 1: an observational study run by some researchers at the University
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  Speaker 1: of Newcastle in New South Wales as well as some
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  Speaker 1: researchers at Deacon University and the Center for Health in
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  Speaker 1: All Policies out of South Australia. And here's what they've
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  Speaker 1: basically tried to do, Kylie. They've said, we need to
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  Speaker 1: examine how this world first national policy which established the
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  Speaker 1: national minimum age of sixteen for holding accounts on a
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  Speaker 1: handful of designated social media platforms, how that's affected social
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  Speaker 1: media use, and talk about what adolescents are doing in
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  Speaker 1: relation to social media platforms as a result of the
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  Speaker 1: act being brought in. So that's basically what they're looking at.
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  Speaker 1: It's an observational study looking at Australian adults age twelve
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  Speaker 1: to seventeen at the time that the implementation of the
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  Speaker 1: age restrictions went in. They ended up with just over
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  Speaker 1: four hundred adolescents Kylie, four hundred and eight. It's along
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  Speaker 1: the chunal studies. So they got baseline data and then
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  Speaker 1: a three month period later they collected more information as well.
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  Speaker 1: And what they were just asking is how much social
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  Speaker 1: media are you using? Like it was self report okay,
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  Speaker 1: relying on adults, sorry, adolescents.
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  Speaker 2: To be truthful, to be truthful about.
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  Speaker 1: Social media in the previous seven days okay, and also
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  Speaker 1: time spent per day. So we know that it's not
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  Speaker 1: going to be perfect because self report around screens never is.
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  Speaker 1: It's far from perfect. People are drastically lacking in self
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  Speaker 1: awareness in terms of how much they're using it. But
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  Speaker 1: that's what they've done. They had four hundred and thirty
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  Speaker 1: six adolescents at the start. Three months later they've lost
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  Speaker 1: a few, so they were down to four hundred and eight.
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  Speaker 1: They lost about thirty I can't do maths twenty eight
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  Speaker 1: twenty eight. Eighty five of them were under sixteen. More
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  Speaker 1: than eighty five percent of the participants under sixteen said yep,
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  Speaker 1: I'm using social media platforms that the acts that I
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  Speaker 1: can't use, and I have been using them in the
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  Speaker 1: last week and certainly over the last three months, and
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  Speaker 1: I'm using them via my own account. There were two thirds,
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  Speaker 1: literally sixty six percent who reported exposure to platform age verification.
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  Speaker 1: That is, only two thirds were even asked to prove
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  Speaker 1: their age. Most of them who got through just uploaded
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  Speaker 1: a picture and kind of lied about what was going on.
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  Speaker 1: They uploaded selfies, they circumvented restrictions, they created fake accounts,
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  Speaker 1: They used social media via private browser VPNs. In other words,
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  Speaker 1: the conclusion, essentially, Kylie, is that the time spent per
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  Speaker 1: day has not really changed for twelve thirteen year olds.
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  Speaker 1: It has gone down a little bit for fourteen and
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  Speaker 1: fifteen year olds, but we're not talking much. And basically
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  Speaker 1: the majority of kids, if they want to be on
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  Speaker 1: social media under the age sixteen, they still are.
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  Speaker 2: So is this where we roll over, we're defeated, we
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  Speaker 2: give up, or is there actually more that we can
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  Speaker 2: and should be doing in an effort to protect our children.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, I have two answers for this. The first is
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  Speaker 1: that the government has to do what they said that
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  Speaker 1: they would do. They've got to have bite. This cannot
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  Speaker 1: be a dog that barks and barks and barks, but
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  Speaker 1: never actually bites. They need to take these platforms to court.
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  Speaker 1: They need to sue them. They need to inflict reputational
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  Speaker 1: and financial damage. And the reality is a forty nine
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  Speaker 1: and a half million dollar fine. While it seems like
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  Speaker 1: a lot to you and I, it's a couple of
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  Speaker 1: hours work. If that, it's chump change for these companies. Nevertheless,
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  Speaker 1: the government needs to show that serious about it and
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  Speaker 1: they actually need to act. Like I said, I've heard
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  Speaker 1: some whispers along the grapevine that some action is being taken,
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  Speaker 1: but it's going to take a long time time. And this
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  Speaker 1: is what I said would happen at the start of
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  Speaker 1: the year. I said, court action is all going to
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  Speaker 1: be on and it's going to take forever. And then
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  Speaker 1: if the government wins, the companies will appeal and nothing
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  Speaker 1: will change for our children. Which brings me to part
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  Speaker 1: two of my answer, and that is that as parents,
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  Speaker 1: we are not out of the woods. We still have
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  Speaker 1: to be the parents. We still have to do the
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  Speaker 1: job because the legislation, while it exists, it's not doing
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  Speaker 1: it for us. The good news is the legislation is there.
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  Speaker 1: So this is a bit like getting your kids to
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  Speaker 1: wear a seat belt in the car. The legislation's there,
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  Speaker 1: but if your kids don't want to wear a seat belt,
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  Speaker 1: they can probably get away with it most of the time,
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  Speaker 1: and no one's going to get fined. Like the police
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  Speaker 1: are not stopping you every time you go for a drive.
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  Speaker 1: There's just not that many police on the road. And
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  Speaker 1: so in the same way, your kids can get on
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  Speaker 1: social media and no one's going to stop them. But
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  Speaker 1: every time you get in the car, you say to
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  Speaker 1: your kids, put your seat belt on. And it's the
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  Speaker 1: same with your kids and their screen news. We've got
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  Speaker 1: to be across it. I've written a bunch of books
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  Speaker 1: about it. Ten Things every Parent needs to Know. My
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: new book Boys, my book about teenage girls, are called Misconnection,
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  Speaker 1: and I can't go to it in detail the podcast,
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  Speaker 1: we just don't have time to go through it all.
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  Speaker 1: But we've got to do the job. We've got to
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  Speaker 1: beyond this.
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  Speaker 2: Well, after the break, let's talk about something a little
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  Speaker 2: bit more happier and I want to discover why Dutch
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  Speaker 2: children are the happiest in the world.
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  Speaker 1: That's next. Stay with us, we're back. It's the Heavy
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Families podcast. Let's dive into this one, Kylie. I know
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  Speaker 1: that you don't like it when I get too carried
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  Speaker 1: away with two doctors desks in one episode, being hone.
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  Speaker 2: I just want to know, are we moving to Holland anytimes?
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  Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be nice?
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  Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be nice?
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  Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah. So here's what we know. The
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  Speaker 1: Netherlands topped the charts forty three OECD and EU countries
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  Speaker 1: when it comes to kids and their happiness. This was
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  Speaker 1: from actually it's going back a little way, kind of
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  Speaker 1: about nine months old now, but mental health, physical health,
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  Speaker 1: and skills.
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  Speaker 2: So we're talking about countries that have actually prolonged children's
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  Speaker 2: ability to be at home and start later. That's essentially
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  Speaker 2: the part of the world we're talking about, right Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Interestingly that doesn't come up in the report as
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  Speaker 1: part of it, but it is structural and that can
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  Speaker 1: only happen because of all the other things that we'll
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  Speaker 1: talk about. Yeah, so I've got a list of about
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  Speaker 1: five things that the research points to that makes their
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  Speaker 1: kids happier. We can't do all of these things in
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  Speaker 1: this country, but we can do some of the things.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm just going to whizz through them really quickly.
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  Speaker 1: The first thing is social relationships are the engine of
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  Speaker 1: this well being boost. I've always said community relationships are
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  Speaker 1: the herd of well being. Build the village when you've
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  Speaker 1: got a strong village, you tend to do well except
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  Speaker 1: in some unusual circumstances. But strong relationships are everything. Where
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  Speaker 1: Dutch kids really stand out is the support that they
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  Speaker 1: get from family, from friends, from teachers, from classmates. They
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  Speaker 1: score high right across the board. There's UNICEF data, So does.
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  Speaker 2: That data and include like intergenerational family connections.
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  Speaker 1: It's intergenerational, it's neighborhood at school, it's they're not an
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  Speaker 1: overly religious although there's a lot of religion in the country,
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  Speaker 1: but it's not a massively religious nation. But they're involved
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  Speaker 1: in community, in sports and churches and you name it.
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  Speaker 1: I just want to share some munieft data that I
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  Speaker 1: dug up. Eighty one percent of Dutch fifteen year olds
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  Speaker 1: said they could make friends easily. That's that's the high.
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  Speaker 1: If it's not the highest, it's among the highest rates measured.
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  Speaker 1: Eighty one percent is saying yeah, I make friends easy.
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  Speaker 1: Like if you asked Australian kids how easy you make friends,
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  Speaker 1: you're not getting an eighty one percent response right here,
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  Speaker 1: So social relationships.
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  Speaker 2: I think if you ask that same question of adults
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  Speaker 2: in Australia.
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  Speaker 1: Oh no way, yeah, you wouldn't get that absolutely. Here's
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  Speaker 1: the second thing that came out of the data. Parents
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  Speaker 1: are actually around and they're not staring at their stupid phones.
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  Speaker 2: But do they have any social media bands or anything?
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  Speaker 1: No, no, no they don't. But parents are around.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Right, So again this is the critical thing Dutch people,
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  Speaker 1: and this is this is a community and social design
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  Speaker 1: thing that we just don't have an Australia. Dutch people
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  Speaker 1: work fewer hours per week than anywhere in Europe. It's
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  Speaker 1: quite common for both mums and dads to work part time.
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  Speaker 1: They have this thing called Pappa Dad it's Daddy Day,
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  Speaker 1: and it's how would I describe it, It's just this
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  Speaker 1: cultural reality. It's an institution. Dads take one week day
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  Speaker 1: off with the kids every week and that's just life
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  Speaker 1: by design. Like that's career typical. It's not a career
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  Speaker 1: suicide situation. Like can you imagine everyone works a four
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  Speaker 1: day week because there's not as much inequality in society,
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  Speaker 1: Like everyone just does four day weeks. So mums are working,
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  Speaker 1: dad's are working, but they're each doing four day weeks
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  Speaker 1: and everyone's around. And so they've got that. Here's what
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  Speaker 1: else they've got. They've got low bullying and they've got
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  Speaker 1: no phones specifically, So Dutch schools are renowned for their
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  Speaker 1: low bullying in the school, but schools in the Netherlands
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  Speaker 1: have a blanket bound on smartphones. And it's also worth
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  Speaker 1: highlighting school as opposed to Australia, in the US and
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  Speaker 1: the UK really really low pressure, not competitive. It's just
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  Speaker 1: about helping kids to enjoy being at school. And like
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  Speaker 1: you said, they start a litt bit later. Oh you
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  Speaker 1: know what else they do? You know what else they do,
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  Speaker 1: Like they factor competence and independence into their lives. So
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  Speaker 1: kids don't get drimnt to school from around about the
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  Speaker 1: age of eight. They ride their bikes to school because
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: they've got the infrastructure over there. Number one, it's flat
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: number two, but the bike pathways and yeah, and they've
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  Speaker 1: got low speed streets and that kind of thing. But
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  Speaker 1: autonomy is what their philosophy is over there, Like they're
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  Speaker 1: literally just we've built an environment that facilitates autonomy. We
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  Speaker 1: can trust that our kids will be okay because the
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: environment adds protective layers to ensure that they'll be okay.
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  Speaker 1: That's just amazing. I love it. We got to go there,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: We've got to try it out.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I could be packed up in a week.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, we need to wrap this up. I want to
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  Speaker 1: share the last couple of things that the data showed.
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  Speaker 1: Eighty seven percent of Dutch fifteen year olds report being
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  Speaker 1: satisfied with their lives. Wow, the highest of all forty
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  Speaker 1: three countries measured. And it barely moved through COVID. So
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  Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen it was ninety percent, it's dropped three percent.
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  Speaker 2: Wow.
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  Speaker 1: Like hello, I.
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  Speaker 2: Don't think I want to know the answer to this,
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  Speaker 2: but how did Australia do.
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  Speaker 1: Australia wasn't ranked And I'll tell you why. Australia's own
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  Speaker 1: State of Australia's Children Report was not included because we
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: didn't have enough data, Because we literally don't collect enough
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  Speaker 1: data on our own kids to be ranked. UNICEF Australia
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  Speaker 1: has said that the Thistraian government needs to do something
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: to address the data gaps, but we just don't do it. Britain,
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  Speaker 1: they came twenty fourth, but Australia we're just not there,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: like we don't have the data, and when we do
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: have the data, it's really bad. About one in six
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  Speaker 1: astrain kids live below the national poverty line. Fifty three
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  Speaker 1: percent of ten to seventeen's have experienced cyberball, seventy four
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: percent of encountered harmful content. I talked about that two
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: days ago when we were talking about Emmy and her
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: daughter seeing the violent video in the Tricky Question episode.
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  Speaker 1: Last report card. In twenty twenty, we did have Australian
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  Speaker 1: data and we were ranked thirty second of thirty eight
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  Speaker 1: for child wellbeing overall. Yeah, well, so how do I
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: say it? We kind of we're not doing well. We
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: are not doing well at all.
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  Speaker 2: So out of this beautiful happy story that Dutch children
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: are the happiest, what can we as parents do on
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  Speaker 2: a practical level, knowing that we don't have the infrastructure
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: of the Dutch people, but we do have capacity to
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: make a difference in our children's lives.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is the hard thing, right, because the
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Netherlands doesn't produce happy children because Dutch parents are more enlightened.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: It is producing happy children because the system is built
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: in such a way that no supports the fan Ye
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: vigial parent has to be that in life. Yeah, because
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the system supports the family, The systems.
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  Speaker 2: It is that that whole notion of it takes a village.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: It literally takes the village.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and that is that is the data right there.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: So what can we do well, We have to build
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: our village and we always talk about this and it's
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: really hard because we're in a society that doesn't facilitate
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: easy village building. We don't have the materials, often because
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: our street isn't friendly, or because we can't let the
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: kids go and do whatever they want. It's really really
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: hard work. The short answer is it's really hard work
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: and we as parents have got to find ways to
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: be creative and building that village. Anyway, that's our doctor's
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: desk episode. We hope you loved it. Keep the kids
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: off social media, build the village. That's what the research
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: is really saying. The Happy Families podcast is produced by
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Justin Rulon from Bridge Media and Mimhammon's provides our additional
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: admin support. Hey, if you'd like more info to make
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: you found me happier, check out my books, especially the
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: brand new one Boys, Building Strong Young Men from the
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Inside Out, and a whole lot more, all available at
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: the Happy Families dot com dot au. Tomorrow it's our
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: old do better time to morrow. Oh and next week
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: next week The Big Conversation Victorian kids are missing seven
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: million days of school a year. Is it okay to
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: take the kids out of school during school time? We'll
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: talk about that more on the Happy Families podcast. We'll
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: see that