Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 2 FEMALE HITCHHIKERS RAPED, MURDERS JUST SOLVED!

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2 FEMALE HITCHHIKERS RAPED, MURDERS JUST SOLVED! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Two beautiful women seemingly unrelated
0:16
Speaker 1: and both go missing. Is it a coincidence or is
0:21
Speaker 1: it a clue? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The first
0:37
Speaker 1: thing you do in any investigation is look and determine
0:42
Speaker 1: who is your victim. That way you may be able
0:46
Speaker 1: to figure out who is the killer. Take a listen
0:50
Speaker 1: to our friends at crime online dot com. By all accounts,
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Speaker 1: twenty nine year old Bobby Oberholtzon has been happily married
0:56
Speaker 1: for four and a half years, living with her husband
0:58
Speaker 1: in Alma. Jeff Oberholten runs an appliance repair business. She
1:03
Speaker 1: is a receptionist. The day Bobby Oberholtzen goes missing, she
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Speaker 1: leaves for work around seven fifteen am. Jeff Oberholtsen tells
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Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries that it was a common occurrence for his
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Speaker 1: wife to hitchhike. Everybody hitshiden. You guys to know the
1:17
Speaker 1: people in the town, and they got to know you,
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Speaker 1: and they'd look for you to take you over and
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Speaker 1: back if you needed to ride around. Dinnertime, Oberholtsen calls
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Speaker 1: her husband to let him know that she was out
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Speaker 1: with friends and would get a ride home, so according
1:30
Speaker 1: to the husband, she is alive and well at dinner
1:34
Speaker 1: time and was getting a ride home. Let's analyze what
1:39
Speaker 1: we know already with me an all star panel to
1:43
Speaker 1: try and apply logic to an illogical situation. Twenty seven
1:49
Speaker 1: years metro major case detective, now lawyer at James at
1:53
Speaker 1: shell Nutt at shell Nutt Law Firm dot com. Renowned
1:57
Speaker 1: psychologists and joining us out of the Birmingham's Station. Doctor
2:00
Speaker 1: Allen Blockkey, PhD. You can find him at Alan Blockkey
2:05
Speaker 1: at att dot net. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. Author
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Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of a
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Speaker 1: new series on the True Crime Network, Poisonous Liaison's Death
2:18
Speaker 1: investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, genetic genealogist, founder of The gene Hunter,
2:24
Speaker 1: and you can find her at the gene Hunter dot com.
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Speaker 1: Scher at la point but first to Anjanette Leavy, Emmy
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Speaker 1: nominated reporter and anchor, and you can find Anjanette on
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Speaker 1: Twitter at Anjanette five the number five, Anjanette, What do
2:41
Speaker 1: we know about the first woman we're discussing? Twenty nine
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Speaker 1: year old Bobby Oberholtzer, apparently happily married. Yeah, and as
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Speaker 1: her husband said, Nancy, which is kind of shocking, But
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Speaker 1: I guess back then it's not so shocking that everybody hitchhights,
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Speaker 1: which just seems incredibly dangerous. We've heard of so many
3:02
Speaker 1: cases over the years with women being kind of scooped
3:06
Speaker 1: up and taken advantage of by predators who are picking
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Speaker 1: up hitchhikers. So obviously she's a happily married woman out
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Speaker 1: going to work and then going out with friends. Internet. Leavy,
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Speaker 1: You're absolutely correct. Everything seemingly normal and at a time
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Speaker 1: when hitchhiking was the norm. Believe it or not, I've
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Speaker 1: actually picked up a hitchhiker. Oh what was I thinking?
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Speaker 1: Obviously I survived this woman, Bobby Oberholzer. I'm looking right
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Speaker 1: at her. She looks like fair Fawcett with her hair
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Speaker 1: not quite as puffy, but really gorgeous. Lady with the wings,
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Speaker 1: working in brecon Ridge, Colorado. Hitchhiking. Mm. Interesting. So she
3:55
Speaker 1: goes missing, but that evening, the husband says he gets
4:01
Speaker 1: a phone call from her saying that she had been
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Speaker 1: out with her friends and she was getting a ride home.
4:09
Speaker 1: M take a listen to Jackie Howard a crime online
4:14
Speaker 1: by two Am. Bobby Oberholzen had not returned home. Jeff
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Speaker 1: finds out from her friends that she left the bar
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Speaker 1: around seven thirty. He tries to report her missing, but
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Speaker 1: it's told my police that it's too early to file
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Speaker 1: a report. The next morning, thirty miles outside of Breckinridge,
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Speaker 1: a farmer finds Bobby's driver's license. What does that mean? Strange?
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Speaker 1: Un James Shelnut, twenty seven years Metro major case including
4:39
Speaker 1: swat now defense lawyer. What do you mean it's too
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Speaker 1: soon to report somebody missing? I mean, if my twins
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Speaker 1: aren't right there for pickup at three thirty, I'm calling
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Speaker 1: cops and they darn well but a launch an investigation prompto. Yeah,
4:54
Speaker 1: you know, of course Stacey progressed and matured law enforcement
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Speaker 1: wise over case. But you know, normally, when an adult
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Speaker 1: goes missing, there's at least a twenty four hour window
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Speaker 1: that police away before they follow a missing person's report,
5:08
Speaker 1: and that's probably what they're referring to here. No, adults
5:12
Speaker 1: are a little bit different than kids. Sure, if a
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Speaker 1: kid is missing, you know that the status now is
5:17
Speaker 1: that you know immediately police start a massive investigation. But
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Speaker 1: with an adult they handle it differently. Okay, So your
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Speaker 1: answer is with children they started investigation with With adults,
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Speaker 1: they don't. That really didn't answer my question. I think
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Speaker 1: what it goes to, frankly to doctor Alan Blockkeey clinical
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Speaker 1: psychologists joined me out of Birmingham. When a woman goes missing,
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Speaker 1: I've heard it a million times. Oh, she ran off
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Speaker 1: with a boyfriend, She's laid up in hotels somewhere, she's this,
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Speaker 1: she's that. They always seem to explain it away, and
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Speaker 1: you know what, it's very rarely explained away rationally. Why
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Speaker 1: is that? Well, And you're absolutely right, And what it
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Speaker 1: shows is that time is of the essence. You're going
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Speaker 1: to sit around for twenty four hours. Twenty four hours
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Speaker 1: is a very long time. Bad things happen. And then
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Speaker 1: when people go missing like that, as you said, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: it's rarely an instant explanation. So time is of the essence.
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Speaker 1: And that leads me, doctor Blockkey, to what we call
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Speaker 1: routine evidence. And I don't mean run of the meal evidence.
6:29
Speaker 1: I mean evidence of routine. She had never not come
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Speaker 1: home before. That had never happened with Bobby Joe Oberholtz
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Speaker 1: her She came home every night and say hey, I'm
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Speaker 1: catching a rod I'm going to be home, but she
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Speaker 1: never made it. Why cops didn't pick up on the
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Speaker 1: fact of how extraordinary that was for her, how out
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Speaker 1: of the norm that was for her. I don't know.
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Speaker 1: But don't you agree, doctor Alan Block or do you
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Speaker 1: that people like animals are typically creatures have happened? Of course,
7:08
Speaker 1: we do the same thing over and over. It's not
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Speaker 1: like my twins are not going to come home from school,
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Speaker 1: say where's Mommy's mommy? Mommy's not cooking dinner tonight, where's mommy?
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Speaker 1: I'm going to bed, where's mommy? No, that's not happening. Now,
7:19
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, and that what that calls for is
7:22
Speaker 1: just a couple of very quick important questions to get
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Speaker 1: the total context, to lead you to some very quick conclusion.
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Speaker 1: To Anginette Levy, Emmy nominated reporter and anchor, Anginette, where
7:36
Speaker 1: again did Bobby Joe Aberholtz her go missing in brecon
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Speaker 1: Ridge is south of Breckinridge, Colorado, Actually, and she had
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Speaker 1: been out with friends, as you mentioned, and that she
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Speaker 1: was going to be home trying to figure out what
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Speaker 1: happened to Bobby Joe Aberholts her Now at the same time,
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Speaker 1: we're juggling cases. Let's talk about a net Schnee twenty
8:01
Speaker 1: one years old. Take a listen to Casey AUTV nine.
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Speaker 1: Lydia Esquez, a nut Snee, was twenty one years old.
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Speaker 1: She was raised in Siux City but living in Colorado
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Speaker 1: at the time. I met Annette on Morningside Avenue at
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Speaker 1: the McDonald's. Scott Smith was a nuts Schnee's high school boyfriend.
8:19
Speaker 1: I was instantly drawn to her. She was a beautiful girl,
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Speaker 1: and that was loyal and just really lovable. I mean,
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Speaker 1: everybody really liked her. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace a
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Speaker 1: nut Schnee was twenty one years old. She was raised
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Speaker 1: in Siux City but living in Colorado at the time.
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Speaker 1: I met Annette on Morningside Avenue at the McDonald's. Scott
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Speaker 1: Smith was a nuts Shenie's high school boyfriend. I was
9:02
Speaker 1: instantly drawn to her. She was a beautiful girl, and
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Speaker 1: that was loyal and just really lovable. I mean, everybody
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Speaker 1: really liked her. For those of you just joining us
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Speaker 1: to beautiful young women one one, one twenty nine who
9:19
Speaker 1: looked very similar physically go missing coincidence or a clue.
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Speaker 1: You just heard the high school sweetheart of twenty one
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Speaker 1: year old Annette Schni described me her as lovable, loyal,
9:36
Speaker 1: fun take a listen again to our friends at casey Au.
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Speaker 1: After high school, both of them left Sioux City. Smith
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Speaker 1: says he wrote Shen wanting to visit her, but he
9:46
Speaker 1: never heard back, and that's when he began to worry.
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Speaker 1: Annet's mom called me up and she said, good, what
9:52
Speaker 1: did you mean when you said you were worried about Annette?
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Speaker 1: And I said, well, you know, I just I hadn't
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Speaker 1: heard from her, and I was just a little concerned
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Speaker 1: about her. And she said, well, Annette's roommates have called
10:03
Speaker 1: and said that she didn't show up but worked last
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Speaker 1: night and she hadn't showed up at at their house.
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Speaker 1: She was reported missing for months. So let me understand this.
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Speaker 1: Back to you and Jeanette Levy, reporter and anchor. So
10:18
Speaker 1: this high school friends trying to reconnect, high school boyfriend
10:21
Speaker 1: trying to reconnect because he had written her and never
10:24
Speaker 1: heard back. But her mom says she didn't show up
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Speaker 1: for work or back home and then was reported missing.
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Speaker 1: And Jeanette, what do we know about where she worked,
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Speaker 1: who reported her missing? Where she was last saying what
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Speaker 1: do we know, well, we know that Annette was working
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Speaker 1: in Breckinridge, very similar to Bobby Joe. They were both
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Speaker 1: working in that city. So in these these happened on
10:50
Speaker 1: these happened very close together. They both looked very similar.
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Speaker 1: They're both beautiful, young blonde women, you know. Very interesting.
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Speaker 1: I will never forget doctor Allen block Key, clinical psychologist
11:02
Speaker 1: joining us. I was prosecuting what I believed to be
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Speaker 1: a serial killer and finally got him on one Jane Doe.
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Speaker 1: And because he left DNA that time and had no
11:20
Speaker 1: idea who he was, it was not getting a match
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Speaker 1: in the system, and we didn't know who the victim
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Speaker 1: was by the end of the case. Okay, by the
11:33
Speaker 1: time I took it to trial, I found a defendant
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Speaker 1: who was a sheep in Atlanta. I found his girlfriend
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Speaker 1: who had thrown him out. She looked almost identical to
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Speaker 1: the dead victim. And I found a previous rape agasalt
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Speaker 1: attempted murder of victim of his She looked like the
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Speaker 1: other two. So as part of my argument in closing statements,
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Speaker 1: I held up I had it drawn a creation of
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Speaker 1: what the dead victim looked like in life, a recry,
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Speaker 1: and I compared it to a blown up photo of
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Speaker 1: the lover who kicked him out and the other victim.
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Speaker 1: They all looked just alike. And I argued, who else
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Speaker 1: would kill her other than the man who was rejected
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Speaker 1: by her? And that jury did not need a shrink,
12:41
Speaker 1: no offense to figure it out. What does that mean?
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Speaker 1: Like Ted Bundy? When you look at his victims, so
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Speaker 1: many of them are thin, frail looking, petite slight white
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Speaker 1: females with dark hair parted in the middle. They all
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Speaker 1: looked so alike to me. I think that's exactly the
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Speaker 1: thread that ties it together. You know, I'm thinking back,
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Speaker 1: what can I learn from Bobby Joe's case that may
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Speaker 1: help me in Annette Schneeze case. I know that night
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Speaker 1: the husband, Jeff had made dinner. He knew she was
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Speaker 1: coming home. He was waiting on her to eat supper.
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Speaker 1: How many times have we done that? Before? He falls asleep,
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Speaker 1: wakes up at midnight, discovered she didn't come home. He
13:29
Speaker 1: waited still she had not returned. That's when he learned
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Speaker 1: she had left her friends. Around seven thirty pm. The
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Speaker 1: next morning, a farmer who lives thirty miles outside Breckinridge
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Speaker 1: finds Bobby Joe's license, Jeff and two friends go to
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Speaker 1: pick it up, and on the way, the husband Jeff,
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Speaker 1: spots something blue colored out in a snowy field. What
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Speaker 1: did he find? Take a listen to our forensic crime
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Speaker 1: online dot com. A farmer finds Bobby's driver's license. As
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Speaker 1: Jeff Oberholtzen and two friends go to pick it up,
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Speaker 1: he spots Bobby's blue backpack in a snow covered field.
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Speaker 1: A blood spattered glove and some bloody tissues are found
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Speaker 1: with it. What do we learn from that? To Joseph
14:17
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jackson State University and author, we
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Speaker 1: learn that Bobby's blue backpack is in a snow covered field,
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Speaker 1: a blood spattered glove and bloody tissues found with it.
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Speaker 1: And what's interesting to me is that the husband finds it.
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Speaker 1: Not the police, of course, that put suspicion on the
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Speaker 1: husband right off the bat, but he had friends with him.
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Speaker 1: Tell me how snow would impact the crime scene? Well,
14:51
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, Nancy. First off, there a couple
14:54
Speaker 1: of pieces here which snow. One of the things that
14:57
Speaker 1: you're going to look for obviously are going to be
14:59
Speaker 1: like if it's not, if it hasn't snowed recently. You're
15:03
Speaker 1: going to look for things like footprints in the snow
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Speaker 1: because they have, particularly these elevations, it's going to remain intact.
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Speaker 1: He'll be able to appreciate those around around the area
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Speaker 1: where these items are found, so the local law enforcement
15:19
Speaker 1: can go up there and actually do castings of these. Now,
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Speaker 1: I think that it's really interesting here. We're talking about
15:26
Speaker 1: a profile where we have a backpack that is found
15:30
Speaker 1: in one location and along with these tissues and these
15:33
Speaker 1: other things. But what do we learn about her body? Well,
15:39
Speaker 1: her body's fifteen miles away, Nancy. So if we're developing
15:42
Speaker 1: a profile, we know that whoever's doing this is driving
15:46
Speaker 1: a car. It's not like she just wandered out there
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Speaker 1: and suddenly deposit her backpack in the snow nonetheless and
15:55
Speaker 1: subfreezing temperatures, and then wound up in another location because
15:59
Speaker 1: she walked there. We know that whoever is handling this
16:03
Speaker 1: is using some kind of conveyance and driving them around.
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Speaker 1: And again, not only do you have a scene there,
16:09
Speaker 1: but whoever is depositing, whoever deposited her body, you've got
16:14
Speaker 1: a scene within this car because this is literally a
16:18
Speaker 1: mobile crime scene. That this individual is driving around in
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Speaker 1: You're gonna find blood there, You're gonna find hair and fiber,
16:24
Speaker 1: You're gonna find all these other things that have left,
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Speaker 1: that have been left deposited, that are the essence of
16:30
Speaker 1: her coming back to the initial location. Wow, And I
16:34
Speaker 1: was thinking of simply there were no footprints in the
16:39
Speaker 1: snow of her coming back. That's what I thought you
16:42
Speaker 1: were going to say, But you said a whole lot more.
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Speaker 1: Of course, it's typical SOP standard operating procedure for the
16:51
Speaker 1: husband to be considered the first suspect when you find
16:56
Speaker 1: evidence that a wife has been killed. Right off the bat.
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Speaker 1: It was determined that the blood found on Bobby's gloves
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Speaker 1: and tissues with her backpack while it belonged, they thought
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Speaker 1: it was hers, but DNA testing later determined it came
17:16
Speaker 1: from a nail, further indicating it could be the husband.
17:33
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, guys, we were talking about
17:38
Speaker 1: the disappearance of two beautiful young women. They look both
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Speaker 1: of them so similar to each other, and to get
17:44
Speaker 1: a mental picture, they both remind me of Farra Faucet
17:46
Speaker 1: when she was about twenty five years old. Bringing in
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Speaker 1: sheryla point to analyze blood found at the scene where
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Speaker 1: obviously Bobby Joe Oberholtzer was kidnapped. So what about blood
18:00
Speaker 1: can tell you whether it's a male or a female? Yes, Nancy,
18:04
Speaker 1: a female will have two X chromosomes and a male
18:08
Speaker 1: will have a Y in an X. So immediately you're
18:12
Speaker 1: going to notice that difference when you do an analysis
18:15
Speaker 1: that you're dealing with a female's DNA and with a
18:20
Speaker 1: male's DNA, and you can separate that DNA. Now with
18:25
Speaker 1: the techniques that are available, it makes it very obvious
18:33
Speaker 1: that you have different profiles. So sheeryl a point genetic genealogist.
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Speaker 1: It comes down to one chromosome and you can tell
18:42
Speaker 1: if it's a man or a woman just like that, Yes, ma'am. Wow,
18:45
Speaker 1: Okay when you say it sounds so simple to a
18:48
Speaker 1: Janette Levy Emmy nominated reporter and anchor, we immediately know
18:55
Speaker 1: that so wrong. At the beginning, when they thought this
18:58
Speaker 1: was all Bobby jo Oberholtzer's blood turned out to be
19:03
Speaker 1: a man's blood. Was it determined to be or not
19:07
Speaker 1: to be the husband's blood? Well, it was determined not
19:09
Speaker 1: to be the husband's blood. It was a male's blood.
19:12
Speaker 1: But back when this happened, they didn't have that technology,
19:17
Speaker 1: the DNA technology, so you would have been going by
19:20
Speaker 1: blood type and things like that. Back and when this happened.
19:23
Speaker 1: When you're taking a look at the scene, James Shelnutt,
19:27
Speaker 1: you find her backpack, you find bloody tissue, One of
19:30
Speaker 1: her gloves are bloody. I would immediately think that's where
19:36
Speaker 1: either a kidnap or a rape occurred. I'd be curious
19:38
Speaker 1: how she got there. But it tells me there's definitely
19:41
Speaker 1: a struggle right there, or or was her backpack and
19:46
Speaker 1: the other items just thrown there? What does the scene
19:49
Speaker 1: tell you? This crom scene was interesting to me when
19:53
Speaker 1: I looked at it, because it could have told you
19:56
Speaker 1: a couple of different things. You know, my first dolt
20:00
Speaker 1: and I looked at this case, was that it was
20:03
Speaker 1: impressive to me that the original detectives and prosecutor restrained
20:08
Speaker 1: themselves from prosecuting the husband. You're right, he would have
20:12
Speaker 1: been the primed suspect in this. And you know, what
20:14
Speaker 1: is pretty strong that his footprints would only foot prints there.
20:17
Speaker 1: So that's one way that it could have been looked at.
20:20
Speaker 1: But when you look at this, you're right there there
20:22
Speaker 1: is a struggle that is occurrent. Wait a minute, As
20:24
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, you're exactly correct, James Shelnut. Because
20:28
Speaker 1: police considered Jeff overholts her a suspect in both cases.
20:35
Speaker 1: They thought it was more than a coincidence, and he
20:37
Speaker 1: had known both victims, and that he was the one
20:41
Speaker 1: that discovered his wife's backpack to Ajeanette Levy, So the
20:45
Speaker 1: husband knows both the victims. Crazy. I mean, if you
20:49
Speaker 1: think about it, how can you He must be like
20:52
Speaker 1: the unluckiest guy on the planet. How do you know
20:55
Speaker 1: both your wife and then this cocktail waitress. You just
20:59
Speaker 1: happened to know her. And he was quoted as saying
21:02
Speaker 1: he had met her and given him his business card.
21:04
Speaker 1: So of course the police are going to focus on him.
21:07
Speaker 1: So it's just it's unbelievable. And then he does something
21:12
Speaker 1: that you never see a target in a criminal case
21:16
Speaker 1: to do. He takes a lie detector test. What happened,
21:21
Speaker 1: Jeanette Levy? As far as a lie detector test goes,
21:25
Speaker 1: he passed. Wow, he passed it. So he passes a
21:29
Speaker 1: lie detector test. To you, doctor Alan Blockkey, clinical psychologist,
21:33
Speaker 1: Joinings Side of Birmingham. You always hear about people who
21:37
Speaker 1: quote beat a lie detector test. We were watching one
21:40
Speaker 1: of the oceans. Oceans, you know, I guess there's eleven twelve,
21:43
Speaker 1: thirteen dollars eight and a guy in the movie, of course,
21:49
Speaker 1: beats a lie detector test. By every time, every time
21:52
Speaker 1: he's asked a question, whether it's what's your name? Or
21:55
Speaker 1: is your name Nancy Grace, he steps down on attack
22:00
Speaker 1: in his shoe. So every time he answers a question,
22:04
Speaker 1: he's in distress. So when he lies and shows distress,
22:09
Speaker 1: it's no different than all the other times he's answered
22:12
Speaker 1: a question. He's sweating. He's like, oh, you know, while
22:16
Speaker 1: he's taking this poly But I find it really difficult,
22:20
Speaker 1: you know, to believe it when somebody says, hey, I
22:24
Speaker 1: beat the polly, it's hard to beat a polygraph. Doctor. Yes,
22:27
Speaker 1: that's very rare, and I think that's more dramatics than
22:33
Speaker 1: in reality. The fact that he passed the polygraph I
22:36
Speaker 1: think is meaningful. Well, it was very They must have
22:39
Speaker 1: thought it was meaningful too, because then you have Annette
22:43
Speaker 1: Schnigo missing. The search is on. Take a listen to
22:48
Speaker 1: our friends at crime online. Two hours after the backpack
22:51
Speaker 1: is discovered, Bobby Oberholtzen's body is found fifteen miles away.
22:56
Speaker 1: The only footprints found by police are Bobby's, and a
22:59
Speaker 1: plastic cord is tied around one of her wrists. And
23:02
Speaker 1: of course that orange sock. An orange sock? Wait? Am
23:08
Speaker 1: I hearing that we're gonna go forward with a murder
23:11
Speaker 1: investigation because of an orange sock? Okay? Now I know
23:20
Speaker 1: that her body has been found fifteen miles away. The
23:25
Speaker 1: only footpints found by police, they think are bobbies with
23:29
Speaker 1: a plastic cord tied around one of her wrists. Well,
23:32
Speaker 1: that's a DNA dream right there, to have a plastic
23:34
Speaker 1: cord tied around the victim's wrist. When I say a
23:38
Speaker 1: DNA dream come true, what do I mean by that?
23:41
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, You've got a plastic chord wrapped around
23:46
Speaker 1: the victim's wrist. Yeah, in today's context, that's going to
23:51
Speaker 1: leave you have the opportunity to pick up what's refer
23:54
Speaker 1: too as touch DNA. And remember, if you're talking about
23:57
Speaker 1: a plastic chord, this is a surface which you could
24:01
Speaker 1: deposit dead skin cells. One. And what's really interesting is
24:05
Speaker 1: in order to get that chord around her, it has
24:08
Speaker 1: to be tied, doesn't it, Nancy, So it would have
24:10
Speaker 1: to be logic. Would did take that it was being
24:13
Speaker 1: tied by the perpetrator, who who left this woman in
24:17
Speaker 1: this condition, So we believe that his DNA would be deposited.
24:22
Speaker 1: They are also in addition to that, any other points
24:25
Speaker 1: of contact on the body where he would have picked
24:27
Speaker 1: her up, carried her, deposited her, I hate to say,
24:31
Speaker 1: but had done things with the body post mortem or
24:35
Speaker 1: maybe anti mortem. All of these things are going to
24:38
Speaker 1: come into play. Are you talking about, among other things,
24:42
Speaker 1: wire Man always so worried about the rape as opposed
24:44
Speaker 1: to the murder. You know, I need a shrink for that,
24:48
Speaker 1: But go ahead, well, you know, we begin to think
24:51
Speaker 1: about all of these opportunities to harvest the DNA that's
24:55
Speaker 1: going to come off of her body. And keep in mind,
25:00
Speaker 1: as Anjeanette had said earlier, the reality is is that
25:05
Speaker 1: during this time period, the only thing we had to
25:08
Speaker 1: go on was ABO blood grouping. That's how we identified
25:12
Speaker 1: people back then, and right now today we've come light
25:17
Speaker 1: years ahead of that. We've advanced beyond that in order
25:20
Speaker 1: to get people identified. But back then all they had
25:24
Speaker 1: was ABO blood groupings. That's why This case is such
25:29
Speaker 1: a testament to the investigators in the past because Nancy,
25:32
Speaker 1: this evidence has been preserved for years and years and
25:36
Speaker 1: years and years time stories with Nancy Grace. Two beautiful
25:53
Speaker 1: young women go missing. Is it a coincidence or a clue?
26:01
Speaker 1: We know what happened with Bobby Joe Oberholtz her, but
26:07
Speaker 1: what about Annette Schnie. Take a listen to our friend
26:12
Speaker 1: Leddy of esquiz Casey AUTV. We had to wait six
26:16
Speaker 1: months until we got news that annex body had been found.
26:20
Speaker 1: She'd been found lying face down on the on the
26:25
Speaker 1: edge of a creek. She died from a single gunshot wound.
26:29
Speaker 1: She is somebody I always looked up to. She would
26:32
Speaker 1: do my hair, and she'd do my makeup and paint
26:34
Speaker 1: my fingernails. And she acted more like the caregiver. She
26:39
Speaker 1: was with me a lot of babysitting me. Cindy French
26:41
Speaker 1: describes her sister as outgoing and goofy. It's almost obscured
26:46
Speaker 1: sometimes when we're searching for forensic clues and trying to
26:49
Speaker 1: make sense of a scene, to think about the person. Funny, beautiful, caregiver, outgoing, goofy.
26:58
Speaker 1: Even Cindy is describing her sister Annette Schnee Ajeanette Levy.
27:07
Speaker 1: Did I hear this correctly? An orange sock is found
27:11
Speaker 1: near the body Bobby Joe Oberholtzer. Yeah, that's right. And
27:15
Speaker 1: the orange sock Nancy did not belong to Bobby Joe.
27:18
Speaker 1: So it was something that was kind of puzzling to
27:21
Speaker 1: investigators where this orange sock just would have come from.
27:25
Speaker 1: Two murders. You know, I don't believe in coincidence when
27:27
Speaker 1: it comes to criminal law. Take a listen to our
27:32
Speaker 1: friend at crime online. Two murders seemingly unrelated. The body
27:37
Speaker 1: of twenty nine year old Bobby Oberholtzen is found near
27:39
Speaker 1: a scenic overlook five miles south of Breckenridge, Colorado. She
27:44
Speaker 1: had been shot twice. There's very little evidence at the scene. Nearby,
27:49
Speaker 1: along with her house keys, police find an orange sock.
27:52
Speaker 1: Six months later, the body of twenty one year old
27:54
Speaker 1: Annette Schnee is discovered near a creek thirteen miles away.
27:58
Speaker 1: She also has been shot. Imagine the officer's surprised when
28:02
Speaker 1: they find Schnei is wearing the mate to the orange sock.
28:06
Speaker 1: So an orange sock found near the first body. The
28:10
Speaker 1: second body found months later wearing the mate to the
28:15
Speaker 1: orange sock. James Shell at twenty seven years in law enforcement,
28:21
Speaker 1: now defense lawyer, did you hear that? Yeah, that's pretty strong.
28:26
Speaker 1: You know in a case where you know, if you
28:28
Speaker 1: rule the husband out, you know, you think, okay, we've
28:32
Speaker 1: not identified a suspect. We've got two different bodies that
28:36
Speaker 1: are out there are two different murders. Are they connected?
28:41
Speaker 1: And you know, in this particular case where you can't
28:44
Speaker 1: find a connection of a human being between the two,
28:48
Speaker 1: this sock is significant. It is significant because it almost
28:54
Speaker 1: with certainty links these two murders. So if you find
28:57
Speaker 1: the guy who did the first murder, he also got
29:00
Speaker 1: the guy who did the second, and the owner of
29:02
Speaker 1: the sock, I'm not sure. Take a listen to this.
29:05
Speaker 1: So what is the significance of the orange sock? Both
29:08
Speaker 1: Bobby Oberholtzen and Anete Schnee were last seen hitchhiking. Police
29:12
Speaker 1: believed that the killer picked up Schnee around five pm,
29:16
Speaker 1: drove her twenty miles south of Breckenridge, and sexually assaulted
29:19
Speaker 1: her in his vehicle. In a hurry to put her
29:21
Speaker 1: clothes back on, Shnee put on one long sock of
29:24
Speaker 1: her own and an orange footy and tried to escape.
29:27
Speaker 1: She was shot in the back and left in the snow.
29:30
Speaker 1: Police say the killer apparently returned to Breckenridge, where he
29:32
Speaker 1: picked up Bobby and also tried to rape her. Oberholtzen
29:36
Speaker 1: apparently fought back and tried to escape, knocking the match
29:40
Speaker 1: to the orange footy out of the vehicle. She was
29:42
Speaker 1: shot twice as she escaped and bled to death in
29:45
Speaker 1: the deep snow, thus explaining why there's only one set
29:51
Speaker 1: of prince out in that snow and they belonged to
29:54
Speaker 1: the victims. She was shot at a range where the
29:58
Speaker 1: perp didn't have to get into the snow. Explain the
30:01
Speaker 1: significance of that, just Scott Morgan, and the significance both
30:05
Speaker 1: victims shot dead, and what we can learn from ballistics,
30:08
Speaker 1: Oh well, ballistic matching I think is key here. They're
30:13
Speaker 1: looking at what's referred to as a thirty eight caliber
30:17
Speaker 1: or three fifty seven magnum caliber round. They did not
30:23
Speaker 1: recover the firearm itself, but they did recover projectiles which
30:27
Speaker 1: can be matched. And of course we know about ballistic
30:29
Speaker 1: fingerprinting with the lands and grooves that are left behind,
30:33
Speaker 1: the striations that are left behind on the bullet, and
30:36
Speaker 1: so it is like a fingerprint. If you recover one
30:39
Speaker 1: from one body, another from another body, and they are
30:43
Speaker 1: very similar within you know, ninety percentile, you're going to
30:48
Speaker 1: have effectively what can be scientifically provable in court. That's significant.
30:54
Speaker 1: And also there's nothing essentially left behind with this weapon.
31:00
Speaker 1: You don't have expended cartridges and this sort of thing,
31:03
Speaker 1: because this is a revolver that's being used in a
31:06
Speaker 1: case like this. One more point, Nancy, that I think
31:08
Speaker 1: is it's critical here. One of the reports talks about
31:12
Speaker 1: how Machinee's body, her clothing was actually in disarray. I
31:19
Speaker 1: heard one reporter say that she quickly dressed. There's also
31:23
Speaker 1: another possibility with serialized killings, and I've seen this with
31:28
Speaker 1: my own eyes with several series I've worked over the
31:31
Speaker 1: course of my career. Serial killers will literally treat dead
31:36
Speaker 1: bodies like dolls. They'll undress them and then redress them
31:41
Speaker 1: and this sort of thing, and sometimes it's left as
31:43
Speaker 1: a marker for this behavior that they've been engaged in.
31:47
Speaker 1: And this is what's really ominous. It really gives me
31:50
Speaker 1: a thought, are these the only two victims that might
31:54
Speaker 1: be out there? You know? Who did that? Is Ted
31:56
Speaker 1: Bundy who would apply to bathe the dead bodies, redo
32:00
Speaker 1: their hair and makeup and readdress them. Doctor Alan Blocke,
32:05
Speaker 1: I really need to shrink right now. Why would you
32:09
Speaker 1: kill a woman then bathe her, redo her hair and
32:13
Speaker 1: makeup and redress her. I think it's a psychopath with
32:19
Speaker 1: clear sexual deviations and perversions. And this is a very
32:25
Speaker 1: disturbed person who did this and did it more than once.
32:31
Speaker 1: And so this is not just anybody. This is not
32:36
Speaker 1: somebody fashion. This is a psychopath. And we see the
32:42
Speaker 1: threads that tie together. Does share La Point and a
32:46
Speaker 1: genealogist founder of the gene Hunter not blue Jeans, g
32:50
Speaker 1: e The gene Hunter Twitter at La Point, Shara, Shara,
32:57
Speaker 1: what do you need to crack this case? See with
33:00
Speaker 1: the advancement in DNA technology these days, we need a
33:06
Speaker 1: profile that can be uploaded to genealogy site that can
33:13
Speaker 1: find matches and shared ancestor. Take a listen, Cheryl a Point,
33:19
Speaker 1: you're on point, pardon the pun. Take a listen to
33:22
Speaker 1: Kerin Lee. At case n C TV four, Tory Mason
33:25
Speaker 1: has learned it was DNA blood on a glove inside
33:28
Speaker 1: one of the victim's backpacks that, along with advances in
33:31
Speaker 1: technology that helped crack this case. Barbara Oberholtzer and a
33:36
Speaker 1: Nat Schnee, we're seen hitchhiking near Breckinridge in January of
33:40
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two. Oberholtzer's body was found on Who's Your Past.
33:44
Speaker 1: The next day, Schnee's body discovered in Park County. Six
33:47
Speaker 1: months later. Back to you, Chryla point, you said, we
33:51
Speaker 1: need genetic genealogy, we need a family tree. What is
33:59
Speaker 1: jed match? How is that use? Sherff. Jedmatch is the
34:02
Speaker 1: site that enthusiastic genealogists use because we always want to
34:08
Speaker 1: find more cousins and DNA matches and put the puzzins together.
34:13
Speaker 1: So jed match was invented by two men who were
34:19
Speaker 1: an amateur genealogist. And if you test at one DNA
34:23
Speaker 1: company and I test out another, instead of having to
34:26
Speaker 1: test at all these different companies, we can upload our
34:29
Speaker 1: results to jedmatch and compare the results. Take a listen
34:33
Speaker 1: to Evan Krugel KdV RTV Fox thirty one. It's been
34:36
Speaker 1: nearly four decades since Bobby, Joe Oberholtzer and Janet Schni
34:40
Speaker 1: disappeared while hitchhiking separately outside of Brack and Rinch. I
34:44
Speaker 1: cannot begin to understand the pain and sufferings their families
34:47
Speaker 1: have had the face for nearly four decades. Today, Park
34:50
Speaker 1: County officials announcing unarrest in the case thanks to DNA
34:55
Speaker 1: founded one of the original crime scenes. In this case,
34:58
Speaker 1: it was on a glove, it was blood. Mitch Morrissey
35:00
Speaker 1: and United Data connect says that DNA did not match
35:04
Speaker 1: any records in the state's database, so they had to
35:06
Speaker 1: take it a step further. Searching for similar DNA through
35:10
Speaker 1: an online ancestry website, you start to get people that
35:15
Speaker 1: are potential relatives and what you're looking for is the
35:19
Speaker 1: most common recent ancestor. So do you share a point.
35:24
Speaker 1: How far back do you have to go? It's not
35:27
Speaker 1: like this purps DNA just pops up on the registry.
35:31
Speaker 1: You have to go way way back to like the
35:33
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. Sometimes, yes, Nancy, And you know, these cases
35:38
Speaker 1: are solved depending on the closest cousin that is found. Usually,
35:45
Speaker 1: and in this case it was a third cousin, which
35:47
Speaker 1: means you had to go all the way back to
35:50
Speaker 1: second grade grandparents. We have sixteen second grade grandparents, eight couples,
35:56
Speaker 1: and you have to be able to compare all these
35:59
Speaker 1: DNA matches that you have access to to find which
36:03
Speaker 1: of those couples this perpetrator descends from. Surel a point
36:07
Speaker 1: You're going death. Come forearm in here. I'm just a
36:12
Speaker 1: trial lawyer. Could you break it down a tiny bit more? Okay, Nancy,
36:19
Speaker 1: When you build a family tree and you get to
36:22
Speaker 1: your grade, your second grade grandparents, anyone who shared that
36:28
Speaker 1: set of grandparents with you would be your third cousin.
36:33
Speaker 1: Once that was found, they had to compare that cousin
36:38
Speaker 1: to other matches that were on the site. Build out
36:43
Speaker 1: family trees and find the connection. Who is the couple
36:48
Speaker 1: that connects these DNA matches on you? Oh wait, wait,
36:53
Speaker 1: you're saying that from the great grandparents. Yeah. I think
36:58
Speaker 1: you're saying you get half of the DNA, but you
37:00
Speaker 1: got to figure out the couple that gives that precise
37:04
Speaker 1: full DNA because a bunch of third cousins have similar
37:08
Speaker 1: DNAs but not exactly the right DNA. That's correct. You
37:14
Speaker 1: need to find exactly which of the couples is connecting
37:19
Speaker 1: these DNA match Got it? Got it? Take a listen
37:22
Speaker 1: to our France a KDVR team Morrissey says his team
37:25
Speaker 1: discovered a close match on Phillips and passed the information
37:28
Speaker 1: along to investigators. They then have to obtain a DNA
37:33
Speaker 1: sample from the individual. Officials say Phillips was still living
37:37
Speaker 1: in the area, so investigators tailed him for weeks until
37:41
Speaker 1: they got a chance to collect his DNA after. Morrissey
37:44
Speaker 1: says they saw him stop at a fast food joint.
37:47
Speaker 1: He carried the trash from that food into a post
37:52
Speaker 1: office and he came out without it, and they rushed
37:55
Speaker 1: right in and got it out of the garbage and
37:59
Speaker 1: they were able to at his saliva off of some
38:01
Speaker 1: of the trash that he deposited. Phillips is being held
38:05
Speaker 1: in a Park County jail. He's facing multiple charges, including
38:09
Speaker 1: kidnapping and first degree murder. In Denver, Evan Kruegel got
38:13
Speaker 1: that DNA match off items in the trash. DNA doesn't lie.
38:22
Speaker 1: To Ajeanette Levy, Emmy nominated reporter and anchor, who is
38:28
Speaker 1: this guy and where is he now? He is a
38:31
Speaker 1: mechanic and they say he has been living in Colorado
38:35
Speaker 1: for many, many years. So the sheriff out there said
38:39
Speaker 1: he wasn't surprised by that fact at all. I think
38:42
Speaker 1: it raises a lot of questions though, did this guy
38:45
Speaker 1: just stop doing this? I can't imagine he just stopped.
38:48
Speaker 1: Allie Phillips now seventy We wait as justice unfalls. Nancy
38:56
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Story, signing off good bye friend,