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Episode 4: Joel & Sina with Sayer Ji - The Body Can Heal Itself · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, thanks for joining us.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sina McKella, and today I have my co-host with me, Joel Salatin.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Joel.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Sina.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to be with you.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Joel and I are very excited because today our special guest is Sayer G.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Sayer is the founder of Green Med Info, which is the world's largest open access natural health database.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: He's also a reviewer at the International Journal of Human Nutrition and Functional Medicine.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: He's the co-founder and CEO of System Biomed, and a board member of the National Health Federation and a steering committee member of the Global Non-GMO Foundation.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can visit him online at greenmedinfo.com.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you have not been to that website, I highly recommend it.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I pull a lot of original source articles off that website.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: It is fantastic.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now I've asked Sagir to be here because he wrote this book recently called Regenerate.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fantastic read.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's packed full of original sourced information about how you can unlock your body's radical resilience through what he calls the new biology.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is absolutely fantastic.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't have a copy, I highly recommend you grab it.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's even like I said, it's full of scientific information, but it's so easy to read.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: You can just breeze right through it.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, Sanger, welcome to the program.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's really a great honor.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: I just love what you're doing.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, I've just been a big fan of Joel's um work for some time.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh again, it's my honor to be here.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really excited because you are an expert in regenerating the human body, and Joel is an expert in regenerating soil.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought this would be a fantastic way to bring these two topics together and to actually demonstrate to people how much there is in common between regenerating the body and regenerating the soil, and provide hope, as your book does, that no matter what disease you have, acute or chronic, you can actually, your body can heal itself, that it is designed to heal itself.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to jump right in with a quote from your book.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you say, no pharmaceutical intervention will ever come close to the self-healing abilities of the stem cells contained within every tissue of your body.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: The fundamental takeaway is that your body contains a seed of immortality, and this is not a metaphor, but is literal.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: The stem cells are the core of the new biology.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love that choice of the words, words, a seed of immortality.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain to us what are these seeds of immortality and how do they work?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's such a sort of literal metaphor because the germline use cells in our body, you know, which in the male are in the testes in the sperm and the women in the ovaries and the egg, they are actually byproducts of a near infinite number of replications of a cell line that goes back to what is known to be the last universal common ancestor cell.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have this continuous thread of immortality that has woven its way throughout the entire uh tree of life, if you will, so that every single living thing today, you know, uh fungal and plant and animal, uh, contain still the same uh lineage of stem cells going back to this sort of protocell.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And even that cell itself could have been a byproduct of a pans-permia event where a fungal, you know, a mortal spore was deposited here from outside the earth.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really fascinating because we aren't really reminded of that uh fact.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we think of ourselves and we live our lives largely around hedging against our mortality and fragility.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, when you think about the profound resilience um, you know, embedded within this, given that we're largely someone has this meme going out there, we're like cucumbers with anxiety.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're we're 99% water molecules by number.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And we you'd think we're so fragile, we'll just leak if we cut ourselves, but we're actually infinitely resilient as well.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why that um vision really inspired me to write that book, was just that one little thing about us that rarely we talk about.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's so inspiring because um, you know, as our listeners know, that's what happened with me and my story.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I literally almost died from an advanced stage of autoimmune disease.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, like you're saying, it was me holding on to that hope and to that belief that it's the fundamental truth of our lives that the body is meant to heal and that it can heal.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it was my job to kind of get out of its way and allow it to do what it needed to do, right?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: To save me.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, and praise God, I'm totally disease-free today.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: But can you explain how stem cells can actually regenerate um cells and subsequently tissues in our bodies?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we think about some of the most feared diseases, you know, of modern living, like heart disease and cancer, which are about equivalent now in terms of their uh mortality rates.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And both of those conditions actually, while largely considered within the conventional system to be idiopathic, meaning we don't know the cause, um, are directly related to the body's constant attempt to regenerate.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, in the case of heart disease, you have endothelial dysfunction, which is a byproduct of any number of exposures.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: You could be a smoker and constantly damaging the lining of your blood vessels.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, whenever there's damage, there are these endothelial progenitor cells floating around in the blood that come in, they're recruited to heal that tissue.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a constant process.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: The same is true for cancer, is that there is tissue that's constantly being damaged or challenged.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: There could be bioaccumulation of a toxicant, or it could be non-native EMF disrupting the cell, causing gene uh alterations, et cetera.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And in all those instances, each tissue type has a little population of these quiescent stem cells that are just waiting to proliferate and regenerate and differentiate into new healthy tissue of the type needed.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we have this default system operating 24-7 trillions of little changes going on every single moment, and we take it for granted.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe three decades down the road, when our lifestyle and nutritional choices and environmental exposures accumulate to some kind of like catastrophic event, we say, Oh, they had heart disease and we didn't know why, and they died.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: When in fact, um, it's really like you said, remove the interference and the body will heal itself.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, I think, fundamentally the simple uh answer to how it works.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And Joel, I'd love for you to jump in here because this is um a similar pr pattern that we see for how to regenerate the soil, is it not?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, it sure is.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the uh the soil again, uh the soil has a desire to be abundant.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have a desire to be infertile.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: It it it's it's it's its default uh desire is to be abundant.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, uh running on solar energy to feed the carbon to the soil, uh, which the carbon in the soil feeds the, you know, feeds the soil biology in decomposition, uh, you know, that's that's ultimately what drives that engine.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and the problem is that in mainline agriculture, you know, we we you know, we dump on the chemical fertilizer, we we say the soil is infertile, but we don't we don't fundamentally go back with the um you know with the template that nature uses to um you know you know to to maintain that fertility.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that template, by the way, includes a lot of animals.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there is no animalless ecology.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and and and so the the animals, especially the uh like like the bison on the American plains, the you know, the the wildebeest on the Serengeti in Africa, those those herding animals um uh are are critical for the kind of uh biomass and carbon pruning to freshen, to maintain juvenile, uh juvenile rapid growth within the plant community to be able to capture actually more carbohydrates or or more you know more solar energy uh and pump carbohydrates into the soil than than plants left you know to to complete senescent uh you know uh senescent growth.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so so um you know the whole plant-animal uh regenerative cycle is uh is an extremely you know synergistic symbiotic uh relationship pumping this this abundance into the soil.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, Sayer, I I I'd like to I'd like to maybe ask a as we were preparing for this, I was trying to think, can I ask Sayer a question he's never been asked before?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you do a lot of these interviews, uh, you know, you're always at least for me, um, I'm all I always get a little bit excited inside when somebody asks me a question never been asked before.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I I'm gonna try one here.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um don't pop my bubble if somebody's already asked this, JD.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um one one of them is one of them is carbon.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: We know that the soil runs on on carbon.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: Essentially, you know, the plants inhale carbon dioxide, break off the carbon, leave it, and exhale oxygen.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's that's the that's the fundamental um uh whatever, you know, uh fuel.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's the it's the fuel for the soil.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a carbon counterpart?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: If there is, what is it?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a carbon counterpart for the human, the human physical body that's as semenal for the human body as carbon is to the soil?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question because a lot of what I was trying to research and understand for the book was around you know how we produce energy in the cell.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And interestingly, you know, I inadvertently stumbled upon all this research showing there were ways to produce energy that did not involve you know, sort of the conventional prep cycle, um, at least indirectly.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, like there was a study that showed, and this is relevant to farming and animal husbandry, I'm sure, that the mammalian um mitochondria actually does take in a metabolite of chlorophyll known as PVE, and is able to capture photonic energy from the sun.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it basically just disrupted this notion that you know animals are you know um just not they're they're they're heterotrophic, right?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: They need to eat other things to produce energy versus plants that are autotropic, uh, creating this middle category called photo heterotrophs.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we're able to toggle between basically using what's the equivalent of mammalian or human photosynthesis, uh, you know, versus more traditional ways to produce energy, like uh beta oxidational fats, and then of course, um just the regular uh pathway uh in the ATP uh synthesis pathways.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh interesting question as to whether we're getting energy from, for example, the sunlight.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Melanin also seems to have the capability of transforming uh a large number of um uh uh frequencies in the electromagnetic spectrum into metabolic energy, so that would include anything from X-rays to radio waves, literally.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another interesting alternative pathway, and then of course, uh Jerry Pollack's work showing that water is actually like a molecular battery and is driving a good portion of our physiology.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so those three ways, and then the fourth way was evidence that our mitochondria seems to be able to transduce um from the vacuum energy, uh, you know, the quantum vacuum um directly so that we are able to literally live off of technically nothing.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very interesting to go down that rabbit hole.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I don't know if that connects directly to your really interesting question, but um it did bring up those topics for me.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's fascinating, uh just because you know because yeah, the soil obviously needs more than carbon, but the the soil, I think what's fascinating to me is that the that when carbon, when organic matter, biomass decomposes in the soil, you know, with the soil uh bacteria, protozoa, nematose, all the soil structure, um the the the actual um the actual biology can can create uh seemingly out of nothing, can actually create a balanced nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus uh um platform uh um seemingly out of nothing but but solar energy, you know, and and that's that's really quite really quite profound.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, actually, I was gonna ask you, did the um sort of work of Luis Kevron ever come up with biotransmutation of elements?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, I knew uh I knew a um a naturopathic doctor once who told who told me, I have no idea if this is true, but he said that the mitochondria, I really appreciate you bringing up the mitochondria, that that in a in a way it it can operate like a little uh cyclotron.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and and a cyclotron can change um atomic energy structure almost like alchemy.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, where it can it can make something new out of a different substance, you know, kind of uh okay.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and so um, so we know we know, for example, uh manure from cows.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just say manure from cows.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's a wonderful material, okay?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Wonderful for the the soil sure loves it, but you know, a cow can eat poor quality forage and really high quality, excellent forage, and the manure is not very different.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh the the the power, the the strength of the manure coming out is not very different.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, an earthworm, an earthworm can go through soil and and through its alimentary canal.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: It can take in, it can take in material and excrete material, the same amount of material, and the amount that it excretes is like three times more calcium, seven times more phosphorus, eleven times more potassium than what it took in, but it's not concentrating, it's the same amount of material.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: There's something happens in that alimentary canal that actually uh cyclotrons the material, you know, to a to a new thing.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a it's it's just um it we still don't know how that happens, you know.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: We still don't know, but I I asked because in my book I document the work of an army scientist who attempts to prove Luis Kevron's um observations, which were backed up by 200 years of observations of other scientists and naturalists.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And what he found this guy, um, gold, I think his name was Goldfine.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: In 1970, he published a report for the army, was that the mitochondria um they produced this magnesium ATP chelate that has a helical structure, and that it's able to accelerate protons to relativistic speeds, creating what was essentially a nano um cyclotron or particle accelerator, which was then capable of transforming atoms into one another, as well as producing what's known as over-unity.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: So more energy was you know emitted than actually put into that uh reaction.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: So fundamentally, he discovered something like the grail of alchemy in our own mitochondria, which basically blows one's mind.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, that's why um the only person I ever saw or red referencing this is Jack Cruz.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually referenced him in my book for this reason, because he makes the claim or observation that the mitochondria convert sunlight into programmable matter.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really quite remarkable.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: But your observations or reflections on the earthworm are such a good example because even in the book, one of the things I discuss is research that has come from Japan and Russia on bacteria being capable of basically decontaminating and dematerializing certain very toxic radioisotopes.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that theoretically is going on in our gut all the time.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when you think of what mitochondria are, they're actually bacteria, they still squiggle around.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, they were once outside of us and then through endosymbiosis.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think 1.6 billion years ago they became the cell that we know of today.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the reality is that like we said earlier on, the um the healer of the soil is is is ultimately you you're you're facilitating the the most fundamental layer of regeneration uh in the work that you do.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And to the degree that we are healthy, um, we'll be consuming foods that were produced in that soil.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's where ultimately the microbiome comes from, anyway, is from the external environment and through our mother, which ultimately still again through the external environment.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if I may jump in, I think that's fascinating what you're talking about too, with the the bacteria changing things and detoxifying, because I wondered if either one of you wanted to elaborate on this, but I was recently reading about how bacteria um, because I was thinking about stem cells, you know, humans have stem cells that allow us to regenerate, plants have stem cells, allow them to regenerate.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, does the soil have stem cells?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I came across these studies that were showing that bacteria can actually um change human cells that have already been differentiated.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So they can they're kind of acting like like stem cell like initiators, right?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Where they're changing.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, like the example, let me see, I don't want to get it wrong.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the example was uh that schwan cells and were able to change, you know, for those who don't know the schwan cells are part of the nervous system, and bacteria that caused leprosy could actually change these um schwann cells into stem cells in a way and they turned them into muscle cells.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then there were some on like H.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: pylori that were able to, you know, change um like an established, you know, somatic cell into another type of cell.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like so to me, this is fantastic.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, I wondered if you can take this like it, but my question was does the soil contain stem cells?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And either directly or indirectly, it sounds like there's potential there, not only in the way that they are the bacteria and possibly other microbes are interacting with each other and with the plants, uh, you know, through the mycorrhizos and stuff, and and then also the implication for humans of how those bacterial cells may actually be able to protect us.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll add a caveat here that I'd love for you to jump in on Sayer.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: In these studies, of course, they were approaching this as um as under the fear-based model of germ theory, right?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: That this is bad, that these bacteria were able to change these cells so that it can help the bacteria infect different parts of your body, right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: That was the whole premise.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, this is very much instilled in fear in that germ theory.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And my thought was what if what if they're not.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Doing in it to like invade your body so that you have to go in and attack and kill them, right?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: What if this is part of this co-evolutionary adaptive response of our human cells working with bacteria to try to defend us and help us to protect us against whatever insults that we have incurred, you know, amongst our body.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: But what do you say?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd love to address this very um, it's a very fertile topic, really.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, well, first of all, the larger structure that I think is most interesting and which I tried to really bring out into the mainstream awareness in the book is around the role that these things called microRNAs play.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so basically, just in short, when when the first draft of the Human Genome Project ended in 2005, and they were anticipating finding a massive amount of genes to account for the massive amount of proteins in the human body.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: So one cell has something like 100,000 different proteins.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: So in the old model, one gene makes one protein.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they thought they'd find at least 100,000 proteins, and there they have the blueprints of all illness, and they can figure out how to cure people's disease.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: But they only found about 21,000 genes, about the same as an earthworm.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, clearly the protein coding genes in the human genome weren't enough information to account for the infinite complexity of the body.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really kind of disillusioning.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the things that did come from that is that there's something called the dark matter of the human genome, which is the 98% of other trans, you know, other genes that are not transcribed into proteins, much of which is called RNA.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that those RNAs include microRNAs.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now it sounds small, but they have a huge effect because these non-coding, meaning they don't translate to proteins.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, they actually interfere with protein synthesis and therefore are really amazing master regulators because they can silence gene expression.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: They are believed to control or in some way influence the majority of the protein-coding genes in the human body.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So they're master regulators.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what's interesting about them is that they are packed into these little nanoparticles that are indistinguishable from what we call viruses.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, they're called exosomes, and these nanoparticles were first called viral-like particles because they're so similar.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, that's the big argument you could make is that viruses are generally misunderstood exosomes.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Needless to say, the thing about this new way of understanding biology is that these exosomes are capable of jumping from cell to cell between individuals in a species and then cross-kingdom between, you know, say animals and plants.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that means that basically, if you are eating a fruit, the microRNAs packaged in that amazing food can affect the expression of our genes.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And therefore, we don't actually have hermetically sealed off uh genomes from all the other things in life.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's this open, decentralized, horizontal flow of information happening constantly.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're talking about, like, for example, bacteria in the gut, they're all producing exosomes all the time, and all the cells are.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: So there's constant dialogue going on between the two.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: So a bacteria in your gut can influence the phenotypal expression of pretty much any cell in your body and could recruit certain stem cells to perform certain essential functions.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So technically, it changes the game on everything we once saw, which was again, we're like these machines, and the code is inside this nucleus, which is hermetically sealed off from the rest of the world, and there's only a one-way direction out, you know, inside out for information.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how things work.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: We're like computers and little robots, totally destroys that vision where now everything is somewhat permeable.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: And what you do or don't eat, the bacteria or soil you are or aren't exposed to, is as important as any gene in the human genome in terms of one's health destiny, how our level of well-being, our resilience.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's, you know, it's sort of a complex topic, but I feel like people need to understand why um it's so important to see food as information and why, again, um, you know, this topic around uh even at poly-based farms, why plants and animals working together is what heals the biosphere and ultimately the human body.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: It can't necessarily be separated out.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to go to Joel next.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um I want to transition with a quote from your book about microRNAs.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you say the most important takeaway with respect to these biomolecules is that our genetic and epigenetic integrity may be wholly contingent upon the gene regulatory microRNAs embedded in our diet.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I read that line and I thought, if that's not a reason to start eating whole foods from healthy sources, then I don't know what is, right?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because literally these microRNAs in our food are in real time turning on and off genes, right?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And they're they're regulators of stem cells, even.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you're either helping with every bind of food, this is what I'm actually thinking in my mind, like when I, you know, when I get tired, sometimes from too much work and I start craving like a brimony.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I literally sit there and I have to stop and think to myself, okay, yeah, you can grab that bramoni, but remember, every bind of food, you're literally either initiating a cascade of healing or a cascade of hindrance of your healing.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: So which one do I want to choose?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I take a step back and I take some breaths and maybe meditate, you know, take a little break for a moment, recoup my energy, maybe go on the sun, walk in the grass and do some grounding.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, like you said, try to try to get um the energy to produce in my body directly from the sun.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it just I love how you summed it up in that because to me, that just resonates with how much we are dependent on food and how much food can actually heal you because, like you're saying, it's information.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so with that, Joel, I wanted to go to you because um, as as I've said this before, there was a time when I was really sick that I wasn't able to eat any meat, like at all.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: And until my husband found Joel at Polyface Farm.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually how I found out about Joel's from Omnivores Dilemma from my husband.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um, my husband actually drove almost two hours to this farm to get his meat and bring it back just to see if I can eat it, because I was literally wasting away, like a cancer patient, like lost 15 pounds in a month, even though I was I was eating spoonfuls of avocado just throughout the day, like packing on as many calories as I could, right?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I believed in the calories, the calorie model at the time.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then anyhow, I couldn't stop the weight loss.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so he brought Joel's meat home and I pressure cooked it to try to pre-digest it, and I was actually able to eat it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't eat any meat or any eggs from the grocery store, but I could actually eat his meat and his eggs.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then for me, there's many reasons, many layers.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, part of it is, you know, as we talked about in our book, Joel, is how the food in the grocery store is sterilized, you know, how it's processed and the meat was probably dipped in chlorine and the eggs were probably dipped in chlorinate.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or worse for me, they were probably dipped, but it could have the organic meat I was eating could have been dipped in um vinegar, which contains corn, which is, you know, a grain that I can't eat.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: So there's all these chemical issues that have happened with the food, but to stay there's point, I think there's also these issues that I'm gonna call non-chemical, right?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're not applying chemicals, it's not the chemicals that we're using to process it or the chemicals that are being fed.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's these non-chemical means of the way that we're raising our food and growing our food that is actually making a lot of us sick.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's changing their microRNA expression, you know, changing the expression of the call of expression, the formation of the microRNAs in the plant.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's changing the soil and the microRNAs there and how it's interacting and the soil composition.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and part of the part of this is the micro RNAs, and I think part of this is through the battlefield.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would love for Joel to start off on this, and then we'll bring it over to Sedinger to talk more about the battlefield, because Joel has a very you know, the battlefield can be a very complicated topic, right?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a lot we don't know about it.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's fascinating for me that this the deep layer of healing, like for instance, food sensitivities and allergies can be imprinted on your bile field.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to learn how to, you know, erase them, um, clear bile fields.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then um Joel has a great example of how he did this on his farm, probably without even realizing that he was shifting bilefields and exchanging microRNAs with his animals, right, through breath.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but Joel, if you could please enlighten us with your story of what you call your scuzz balls.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so yeah, so uh, you know, we we had these um we run we run almost you know a thousand head of cattle.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so you know that's a lot of animals.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so we'd have this group of you know 400 or so uh you know weaned calves, you know, young juvenile type weaned calves.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and we'd always have a group that was that just didn't perform.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't, you know, they they held back um and and um so and you had to you had to baby them, uh you'd lose one, you know, along, and it was and we called it we call them the scuzz balls.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: They just you know, look, you guys, you just don't you just don't get it, you know.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: And um we had a uh you know um we had a guy uh tell us he was a bit of a cow whisperer.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: He said, uh, well, first of all, he said you shouldn't call them scuzz balls.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're beaming bad energy at them, you know.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: You uh you should you should call them something else.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so we took that advice.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: We came home and we and we changed our terminology.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: We called them, we called them the wolf pack.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh that we were that in nature they would be the ones picked off by the wolves, and so we're saving you from the wolf pack.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: So we we we we we quick call them scuzz balls, we called them the wolf pack, and and and that moved us from a negative mentality to a positive mentality, which by the way, then moved us to ask, all right, so so how can we how can we how can we bring this wolf pack along, you know, uh and and it became a matter of saving and not isolating.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so we started a leader follower program where we gave them nothing but cream, we coddled them, uh, we used some probiotics, different things, and and changed the way that we the habitat that we um provided for them.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um amazingly, within two years, that group ceased to exist.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: We don't even have a wolf pack anymore.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh we don't they I mean, I'm not gonna say we never have yeah, once in a while you have one that doesn't do well, but it it it moved us to a place of uh um whatever, of of husbandry, of stewardship that became very innovative.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um one thing, for example, one thing we did was we never we never let that group be without an old cow with them.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and what what we learned was that these calves were orphans, and for whatever reason, I mean it could be that these calves were weaned a little early, it could be who knows what.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but when we put we put an old cow with these uh calves, they buddied right up to that cow.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: That cow taught them what to eat.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you can eat that weed, you can eat that herb.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: I know they don't normally eat it, but but we can eat that.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and all this this education communication started happening between this old matriarchal cow and these uh young calves, and and literally the whole thing ceased to exist.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, what we did then going forward was now we never run a group of calves without an old cow with them.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that just became protocol.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: And guess what?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: We don't even have a wolf pack anymore.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and they you know they just come right along and and get going.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah, it it truly, it truly is an amazing uh response to you know to a change in um in in in thinking.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: And the thinking change um makes you then makes you then change your your protocol, your logistic change.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so it's it's a domino, and it's uh it's pretty cool.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I can't help as we've as we've had this conversation and and and and talked about a a system of complexity, uh complexity that's almost well that we we we can't we can't even we can't even describe the complexity uh of what we're describing.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sitting here thinking the same thing with the farm, the complexity here, and and realizing that everything in orthodox conventional agriculture is about simplification, it's all about simplification, and if that is what we see in the health field, the orthodox health field is also about simplification.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: How do we take all this complexity and instead of instead of appreciating, honoring, and standing in awe at the complexity, the whole goal is to to dumb it down, simplify it, bring it to a to a vaccine, a pill, and a recipe, and all is well.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely reductionist thinking.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I chose the you know uh Romanesque of cauliflower for the title of the book because you know it's such a great image or archetype of this infinite complexity and information technically, uh embedded within this whole unified simple thing that you can eat.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think about the fact that you know we're fractal in nature, you know, you keep going down in scale, and there's these self-similar patterns that occur.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so that means we need to eat fractals, right?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like so that's what food is.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the real thing, not something we synthesize or create through reductionistic thinking and technology.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but as far as the uh, there's so many things that I've I've been thinking about since you start talking, but I I find that to be really a beautiful story, and I'm trying to find ways to describe the new biology in in that kind of poetic manner.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: The one thing that does come up for me, especially when you say the desire of the soil previously, I love that so much because we think about the great poets and we think, oh, they're pre-scientific or pseudoscientific.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, what I'm starting to understand is that the poetry is woven into the things themselves, so that when you look at, say, a pomegranate and you realize that, okay, you slice it in half, and it looks literally like an ovary, right?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: It has the little, you know, eggs, and basically it's the fruiting ovary of the pomegranate bush.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And when mammals eat it, it literally replaces the function of the mammalian ovary.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you can take the ovaries out of a rodent, they go through full-blown mineral menopause and demineralize of the bone, etc., but you give them pomegranates as if you never took their ovaries out.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then you look into what's inside of the ovary and it has steroidal home hormone analogs biodentical to what you find in a mammalian ovary.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you have estrone, you have testosterone.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so, why is that?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because over hundreds of millions of years, ultimately, these kingdoms were in like a love affair kind of relationship where you know certain plants needed the dispersal of their seeds in order to you know be fruitful and multiply.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And animals were given that, you know, gift through the alluring flesh of the fruit, and it's in return, our endocrine system got an upgrade.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where we're starting to understand um the poetry sort of embedded in that relationship as well.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so anyway, I just one thing I wanted to throw out there.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing is when you you compare that, which is God's design, to what uh in 2017, Monsanto, which is now owned by Bayer, obviously, and Dow collaborated to produce the first corn that is now on the market.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: People are eating it.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was silently approved by the EPA using a RNA-based technology very similar to what microRNAs do.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: They altered the corn and it created all these interfering small molecules, which are these RNAs.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: And now there are literally millions of people whose entire genetic infrastructure is completely being altered through these terrible experiments that have been, you know, with these foods.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the same thing.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: These RNAs are being used, you know, in a way to push through what honestly is a depopulation uh agenda, if not by intention design, definitely by effect.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um I want to bring you in on this, and it involves um Joel as well, in speaking about how important it is for people to pay attention to sourcing their food.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so as we were talking before the show, I was mentioning how like organic or just picking organic is is not enough, you know, because of like, for instance, like hydroponics where they're not even grown in the soil, um, you know, things like this, and um, there's other loopholes in the organic label.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: But what I was interested in is these microRNAs in in the context of um something that I don't think is talked about very much in terms of their effect on um the quality of the food that you're getting based on the way that the food was raised or grown.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, for instance, in your book, Sandy where you talk about how um trauma can be passed down, like right through generations, um, through these microorganisms, you know, through the epigenetic changes.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I wondered if you could go into a little bit about how trauma is passed down, you know, from like mother to child, um, and presumably this is an is also true for like plants, for instance, and for animals, um, and and trauma for the soil.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm wondering if then, Joel, you could pick up on and and explain this um through your own hands-on experience of how you see behaviors that are different in on the animals on your farm that are not in this traumatizing industrialized setup versus how the animals behave in the industrialized food system.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, go ahead, Sarah, if you want to.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Very interesting question.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, at the least, I can say that the discovery of microRNAs has completely overturned a vast majority of assumptions about how things work on a genetic level in terms of inheritance.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, a study was published a few years ago showing that somatic cells can transfer information directly to germline cells, in this case, sperm, through microRNAs, which means it basically affirms uh the Lamarckian notion that you know what you're doing in your life right now can be passed, those qualities that you have can be passed down to the next generation and all the generations after, which puts a huge uh weight of responsibility on what we do right now.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, the old view is you have, you know, maybe a genetic change occurs in the protein-coding genes of the human genome every couple hundred thousand years, right?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a very slow glacial paced process.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: The discovery, though, of microRNA shows us that basically you can alter your genetic destiny in real time, like depending on again what exposures, what information you are or not uh getting in the environment.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the idea that trauma that we experience or even being passed down from previous generations can then be passed down, you know, to the next generation is very established now.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's a plausible mechanism for understanding that.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, in the case of plants and food, there's different types of stress, and good stress or eustress can produce beneficial uh compounds andor you know responses.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: But the type of stress we're dealing with here in the modern age, which could be any number of toxicants I'm exposed to right now, just breathing like glyphosate, you know, that's a kind of trauma, a micro trauma that I'm sure has some effect on.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Again, the micro RNAs in our body, and yeah, so there's definitely a way to kind of piece those things together.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well I I yeah, I I love that uh that nuance, uh Sayard, uh that because we we take a we view, for example, exercise, um, ecological exercise as being um temporarily stressful, but that's what moves succession forward.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you um, I mean, think about think about what a fire does in a forest and the different kinds of plants that come in after a fire.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there are actually plants that require fire in order to break their seed pods open so that they can germinate.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so we'd say that's stressful, uh, but it but it's a it's a totally temporary stress.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's like exercise.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, if you if you exercised hard all day, your body would actually break down, you know, and and you you wouldn't have time to rejuvenate.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's this, I I I kind of call it a a pulsing, an ecological pulsing, where you you have this.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: We see this on you know on our own farm where I mean we we just we just finished our um our big master grazing plan for the year.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we've got you know like like four herds scattered among you know a dozen properties that that we move uh every day or two from paddock to paddock.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: So there are there are you know um three or four moves a day of several hundred animals scattered on different properties, and then you know they're move.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very it's an intricate dance, okay?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and so what what we what we've learned is that um that pushing pushing the pasture ecology, and when I say pushing, I mean like like grazing it hard, stomping it in, even you know, even uh uh you know, hoof action almost enough to to be a light tillage um actually actually is great to move diversity, different kinds of plants.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: We call it ecological, ecological uh exercise.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a it's like a it's like a massage, you know, massage is not always uh doesn't always feel good, you know, when when the massoots puts her, you know, puts her finger right on that, ooh, you know, it feels good later.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and so so uh what we found is that we so we have this really rapid daily kind of daily move, but there's this multi-year where okay, last year, last year we mob stocked this place, this year we'll mob stock that place, and we'll let this place rest and just do a light, uh, you know, uh take uh eat 50, leave 50, and and and that allows for rejuvenation.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: The heavy mob stocking stimulates additional kinds of plants and germination.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and so both of those are really important, but you don't want to do either one of them all the time.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: If if you're if you just lackadaisically go along and do the take 50 lead 50, then you tend toward a monoculture because that only that only encourages one kind of plant.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: And if all you do is mob stock all the time, you get lots of diversity, including maybe some weeds that you don't want, maybe some weeds that the cows won't even eat because the land is trying to protect itself.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna vegetate something that the cows won't eat.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's this this kind of uh uh armor, this this protective armor that comes out of the soil uh to as a protective cover, if you will.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, so this this whole you know uh exercise rest, exercise rest is a is a beautiful uh symbol of you know what happens out there in nature.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if I could add, this is a great metaphor because the same is true for immunological exercise, meaning if we assume that when we are exposed to diversity in the microbiome virome, mycome, and that we end up with a challenge so that we get to exercise our immunity, experience symptoms of malaise, fever, diarrhea, mucus, that's also a wonderful detoxification process.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's an example of e-stress or xenohormesis, or taking advantage of an opportunity to grow stronger.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not how it's looked at right now, right?
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: You have a little sniffle, maybe your temperature is a degree high, and the police state is literally trying to lock you down.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like they've they've weaponized and taken the symptoms of health and your body's messenger of how this is how we heal, and then made it into you know the devil himself.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, I'm just bringing that up because I love this notion of uh I wondered, I wondered if we could actually have a full podcast uh uh conversation here and not say the C-word.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just wondered.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, the ultimate uh basis of terrain theory is the metaphor of the forest floor, or you could say the polyphase farm uh land, which is you know, there the fungal forms, the bacteria, they they come and they help to degrade that which needs to be removed so that the regeneration occurs.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that view is so beautiful, and I think it helps people to get beyond this sort of like allopathic, naturopathic dialectic to understand from the perspective of an enlightened farmer, you know, how this makes sense on an ecological level, too, because that's ultimately where these metaphors are probably better uh derived.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that that's right.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and and one of the interesting things that all this does is uh that this this diversity of of um diversity of touch, if you will, creates a diversity of microbes so that you get both bacteria and fungi rather than just bacteria or fungi.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: Fungi tends to inhabit forests, bacteria tends to inhabit grasslands, but when you when you incorporate the two like we do with composting and chips and running the carbon economy, you actually get both bacteria and fungal, and the healthiest soils have both bacteria and fungi.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and uh and and so that that combines additional diversity uh in the soil as well, to add additional what trillions and quadrillions of interchanges that could not happen if you didn't have the diversified uh microbial community.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, wow, beautiful, love it.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I mean it's quite analogous to the human, right?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like this the same thing that we've been talking about is we need all this diversity too, and they don't work against us, they work with us.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: They're as we know that microbes in our gastrointestinal tract are helping us digest foods, they're helping us make hormones like serotonin, they're helping regulate like every system in our body.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: So very a lot of parallels with the soil.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Joel, I know we're running out of time here.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Joel, can you touch on how you know you've done a great job of explaining this intricate dance that happens at your farm and um how that produces this healthy healing food?
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: Can you quickly touch on how that's different than like like factory farming?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, like how we talk about how even if you're looking at like a piece of organic chicken, that organic chicken wasn't frolicking all around in the green pastures eating worms and stuff.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: So can you just give a paint a picture for us of like let's take a chicken, what it looks like on um for the average um organic chicken that you find in your grocery store, what's their environment like?
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want people to kind of reflect back on some of the insights that the Senior has provided and think about you know the stem cells, think about the microRNAs that are being produced in these chickens in this environment and um you know trauma that they're experiencing that's causing different uh types of our microRNAs to be um created in their bodies, and then think how you consume that meat.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: So go ahead, Joel.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: So so they're they're in a they're in a large house, uh, you know, whatever, 10,000 in a in what we call a confinement house.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there are fans trying to supply fresh air.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: The main thing about these houses is that the air is not only are there you know 10,000 in one group, uh, but the air is full of fecal particulate.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the a chicken, remember, a chicken isn't potty trained and they don't wear diapers.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: So they're actually they're actually walking and moving uh you know in their own excrement and and then and then scratching through it, and and and they're not even as high as we are, you know, they're they're right down on top of it.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: So there's this dust, this this particulate uh dust that that's constantly being um ingested through their uh tender mucous membranes, which makes lesions in the um in the respiratory tract.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get you get a direct movement then of whatever's in the air directly into the system because you've got these abrasions and and lesions within the tender mucous membranes.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and and of course, you know, they they don't see the light of day, they don't, you know, they don't ever get a blade of green grass or anything like that.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas on our farm, what we do is uh these chickens are on they're on pasture.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: We move them you know every day, and they get there's no fecal particulate, zero.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it there's there's because because there's no dust, there's no they're breathing the same air we're breathing.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's on green grass, they get a fresh spot every day.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: So every day they get they they move away from yesterday's excrement and get a totally new you know bedding change, if you will.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: And um they get they get their linens washed every day, and uh so so you know they're on this fresh ground and they get they get uh you know grass.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: They now that you know they also get local GMO-free um grains, but they also get the grass, uh crickets, worms, and and and they get the exercise that they can get out there in the fresh air and on the on the clean grass.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: Interestingly, um the grass, we call it the salad bar, that salad uh actually is is key to changing the fat the fat profiles, it changes everything, just like a little bit of salad for us.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not the mainstay of their diet, it's more like a like a super supplement, okay?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: But but um uh but it doesn't take very much for super supplement.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know it's interesting that back when we had the big uh avian influenza outbreak um you know in um you know Vietnam, Thailand, and all that, you know, back there uh eight years ago, Great Britain, Great Britain did a study.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: They found that if a chicken gets two fresh blades of grass a day, and grass has a lot of uh natural antibodies in it, um, and that if a chicken got two blades of fresh grass a day, uh they wouldn't get the high path avian influenza.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and you know, you would think, you would think that when that discovery was made, they'd be a you know, change the protocol.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get these chickens some fresh green grass, you know.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: But uh no, of course, that never happens.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: We just got to find a better drug and a different, you know, a different kind of pharmaceutical to be able to, you know, keep them going.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's a real different life.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, then they feel different, they look different, the fat profile is different.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, they actually have taste.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: One of the reasons we have to smother all of our poultry in the U.S.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: in a bunch of you know sauces and and breadings and everything is because the chickens don't don't have any taste.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the most uh enjoyable things we get back from chefs that we serve is I can put this chicken, I can cook this chicken with no salt, no pepper, no, no nothing.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: And my people love to eat it.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: It it just it's it's it has taste.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because they've got some clover leaves, they've got a worm, they've got a grasshopper in addition to their feed, and so they're getting this very diversified portfolio of ingestion that then comes out in in nuanced taste of the proteins that are therefore more complex and more uh you know more nuanced than in a you know in a in a simple um a simple formula system where they don't get access to anything.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: They have no choice of access to anything else.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: All they can have is what's in the feeder.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: And if that's all they can get, it's a very simplified diet, which then makes a simplified taste, which then requires complex sauces and and and and you know and uh um spices to make it edible.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it reminds me of what you're talking about, how everything is coming down to this reductionist thinking, you know, in in agriculture, in the food industry, in uh the pharmaceutical industry, in the medical industry.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is a great example.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like you've illustrated this painting, this great picture from us of how when you do simplify these things down, like the no choice, just stick them on the dirt, um, you also simplify the microbiome, right?
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: You you greatly lose diversity in the microbiome.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: And as we know, that's a gateway to open you up to both acute and chronic illness.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I know we've kept Sanger over, but I want to end on this note.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sarah, can you end us on a positive note?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we've already talked about how um how how for the source of your food is very critical for health and healing your body.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: But can you give us like one or two tips, uh, maybe your favorite tips of how you can get out of the way and let your body regenerate itself so you can heal?
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of the suggestions I have at the end of the book is to try something very simple, which is just go ahead and replace the meals of one day with just eating organic apples.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's sort of the ideal substance.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can go to biblical tradition if you like, but I like going back to the whole notion around angiosperm and metazoa coevolution, which started around 200 million years ago, which is complex animal life and uh fruit uh-bearing, flowering plants, because that's the basis for most of the food supply.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the plan is this collaboration.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you start eating this apple and you get rid of all the other stuff we're eating, so much of it is just gunk, we're addicted, we have this morbid, undigested food in our body.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: You just give your body a rest, you don't have to digest anything, it does the trick, it nourishes, it gives you these informational molecules, it cleanses, and then if you're really hungry, you'll notice you'll want to eat another apple, but you'll be surprised that you know, when you're like, wow, I don't really want to eat another apple.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, guess what?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're not really hungry.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: Some people have done this for days on end.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't suggest doing that unless you're of already pretty good baseline health and you've maybe experimented with fasting, but you can almost get to a point where you realize that your energy is being literally provided to you through the abundance of the universe from the sun all the way to the quantum vacuum.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like you are literally generating infinite energy just from the void, and that is actually, I think, the real beauty of this approach.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna clear your life out, make it simple, and you're gonna kind of be able to finally rest and regenerate.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one little tip, and then the other one is probably pretty simple, which is intentional movement is medicine and food for every single cell of your body, you know.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: Be on your phone in relation to your job, your your body isn't yours, no one is in possession of themselves.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: So when you intentionally move, be literally sitting down, like and meditating.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: It could be yoga, it could be exercising, it could be you know running.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: You get so much back from that, and and just the juices of your incredible body and soul start start flowing again.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, preferably do it with bare feet outside if you can do that.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: But the point is, is that that is one of the best ways to recapture your health and feel an energy that isn't going to be based on just eating the right foods or you know, thinking the right thoughts.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's just something that's very tangible.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love that.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like that resonates with me on so many levels.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll just add in that uh yeah, we uh about a year ago, my husband and I realized that we have we're so passionate about so many things that we tend to work too much.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we'd rather shift our focus.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: Joel laughed.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we don't know work unless we're we become farmers, I'm sure.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, Joel Runch joked out, joked around with me that he he just gave up on trying to keep up with me.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, I'm sure, you know, and Sarah, I would love for you to come back on at some point um when you have time and share your healing journey with us too, because it is a story of hope and inspiration.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so you'll I think you'll understand this sentiment.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: And like I I tell Joel of people, um, my friends always ask me, how do you get so much done?
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you do so much?
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because you have three young, like I have a five-month-old, you know, and then two other children that I, you know, I homeschool them, run the business and write books, whatever.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, I don't understand.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you get all this done?
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you have so much energy and you're just so happy, you know?
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell them it's because I was given the gift of a second chance of life.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like a puppy that gets or dog that gets rescued from the pound who knows that they're in the pound.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: They know, they know what's gonna happen.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: They know that when you rescue them and they're just eternally grateful.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I have five rescue dogs, uh, so I don't have chickens, I have dogs.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell you, they know that you know, every day, every day they know, and they're so grateful.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how it is.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have this um true deep feeling of gratitude for every moment of my life.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: Even now I I feel the tears like welling up because my children almost didn't have a mother, like I almost missed it, you know, and and I was given this um this gracious gift to share that life with them.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so um it is hard to find that balance, as you're saying, choose with intention because now I'm so passionate that I want to help other people find their second chance.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: But while I'm doing that, I don't want to miss out on my children growing up.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: So about a year ago, my husband and I came up with this idea that every couple of weeks we check in with each other and we we plan with intention now.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: We keep spaces open in the calendar and we intentionally add in times when it's it's our fun time.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like we add in the playtime, right?
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so my goal every day now is is to laugh like a child.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: That that's my new health goal is every day I'm laughing like a child.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: So all the sorry, long-term enough story.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: I just resonate with you so deeply.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to throw that in there.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: That you know, you're such an inspiration to so many of us, and you're just this pillar of hope, like this really this beacon of hope that and it's it's encapsulated, as I said, in this book, Regenerate.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: This book, especially if you are sick, this book will give you a hope that you can fully and completely heal yourself.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's just there's absolutely no doubt about it.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now we not only is it a belief, but we have the science, and you've packed that science in here.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's page upon page of original source um references so you can go look them up yourself and read them and convince yourself because, like we said, it starts with belief, right?
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: You must believe that it is possible.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: And Sare's done a fantastic job of laying that out.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: And Joel, I want to thank you for joining us on this program and really showing us how this it extends beyond just regeneration of the body.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_00: It extends to the regeneration of the soil and all these parallels between them.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: And when I look at what you do and how how much soil you on your farm alone have been able to regenerate coming from practically nothing, um it's a true testament to it is possible we can feed the world this way.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if you, this, you know, this man on this farm can regenerate all this soil and create those healing foods, our bodies that were, you know, designed, you know, by the poetic hand of God can also regenerate themselves.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's just no question about it.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to thank both of you for your time and for your wisdom and for just standing in your power, in your light, and not letting anybody, you know, silence you, even amongst the censorship.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: Say, I know you you've experienced quite a bit of censorship, and I applaud you for continuing to move forward so that you can pursue your mission too of helping people.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you both for being on the program.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Selena.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, go ahead, Sayer.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna say thank you so much for this uh opportunity and um really appreciate your story and your your passion as well as soul.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: And again, if you want to connect with Sayer, you can find him on greenmedinfo.com, and we'll put a link in the description box on both the podcasts on the in the video.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you guys so much.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Sayer, fantastic book.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody, I'm telling you, you've got to read this book.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: All right, until next time.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: Happy eating.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: Bye bye.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.