Latest / Babes, how did you get here / "Where Are All My People At?" — Why This Black American REFUSES to Move Back to the US

Transcript

"Where Are All My People At?" — Why This Black American REFUSES to Move Back to the US · Babes, how did you get here

• 0:00
  So I said, you know what?
• 0:00
  Well, I'm in a club every night, so let me start this business.
• 0:04
  I started a business called Cape Town Club Crawl.
• 0:07
  So Americans would come to Cape Town and at this time, like if you were an American and you went and you stayed at a nice hotel, black American, and you said, where do, where should I go?
• 0:17
  They would send you to a very, very non-culturally relevant club.
• 0:24
  Okay.
• 0:25
  And you'd be like, where are all my people at?
• 0:27
  Right.
• 0:28
  And so I solved that problem.
• 0:30
  I had Cape Town Club Crawl.
• 0:32
  I'm taking you to the hip-hop, the Amo Piano, the R&B clubs.
• 0:35
  Come with me.
• 0:36
  Amazing.
• 0:37
  You know what?
• 0:38
  I'm not going to date in Cape Town anymore.
• 0:40
  I'm just going to have European love summers.
• 0:43
  That's what I said before I met him.
• 0:45
  And two weeks later, I meet him.
• 0:46
  And now we've been together for like a year and a half.
• 0:48
  So is it a challenge dating him?
• 0:50
  Oh, gosh.
• 0:51
  It's more than a challenge.
• 0:52
  It's like Squid Games.
• 0:53
  Why?
• 0:57
  We're dropping new episodes every single week.
• 0:59
  So make sure you subscribe.
• 1:01
  You don't want to miss this, babes.
• 1:02
  And leave a comment and tell me, what do you want to hear out of my next conversation?
• 1:06
  Your support really helps this community grow.
• 1:09
  And if you know someone who's quietly been thinking, should they take that next big leap?
• 1:13
  Babes, send them the podcast.
• 1:16
  It feels like everyone is moving abroad or thinking about doing so.
• 1:20
  I am April Jackson, traveling the world, finding people who have not just chosen to live a life elsewhere, but they've moved with purpose.
• 1:29
  Twani Price, founder and director of Zuri Wine & Events, a curator of luxury wine experiences that center the stories, excellence and communities of BIPOC,
• 1:42
  That's a lot.
• 1:43
  BIPOC winemakers across the diaspora.
• 1:47
  Born and raised in South Central Los Angeles, her story takes us from corporate accounting to vineyards.
• 1:55
  This conversation is one of ownership, representation and rewriting the narrative.
• 2:01
  But first, I must ask, Babes, what did you get here?
• 2:05
  Wine.
• 2:08
  It's as simple as that.
• 2:09
  Wine bought me here.
• 2:10
  Wine kept me here.
• 2:11
  Yes.
• 2:12
  When was your first time visiting Cape Town?
• 2:15
  I came to Cape Town in 2016.
• 2:17
  I had been traveling in the world and I just wanted to live out of the country.
• 2:23
  And so I went to Spain a couple times, three times, and I was like, I'm moving to Spain.
• 2:27
  I speak a little bit of Spanish.
• 2:30
  Oh, and the arms are very cute.
• 2:33
  If you speak Spanish, you know what I mean.
• 2:35
  The men are very handsome and I speak a little bit of Spanish.
• 2:38
  So I was determined to move to Spain.
• 2:41
  And then a voice, I like to think it was God, said, girl, you need to go to the motherland before you move to the European continent.
• 2:49
  And so that's how I ended up in South Africa.
• 2:52
  Can you take me to that decision when you started your world travels?
• 2:57
  Yeah, so I started traveling late in life.
• 2:59
  I wasn't, I think I might have been 40 when I took my first international trip.
• 3:03
  Okay.
• 3:04
  I kind of lived life in reverse.
• 3:06
  So when I was in college, I got married, I had children, I was a soccer mom, and I was living the life in L.A.
• 3:13
  I had a beautiful life in L.A., fun life in L.A., but I just didn't travel.
• 3:17
  I didn't have the money to travel.
• 3:18
  Yeah.
• 3:19
  I just didn't really know how to travel, and a lot of my friends were not traveling internationally.
• 3:24
  Okay.
• 3:24
  I mean, I went to the Bahamas.
• 3:26
  I went to your hometown.
• 3:27
  I went to Jamaica, and I loved Jamaica.
• 3:30
  I've probably gone to the grill probably eight times.
• 3:32
  It was amazing.
• 3:34
  So, but it was, I was older.
• 3:39
  My kids had graduated from high school.
• 3:42
  I was ending a relationship.
• 3:45
  And I was like, you know what?
• 3:46
  I'm going to take this international trip.
• 3:49
  I had a friend that was from Madrid and she had an apartment.
• 3:52
  It just worked out.
• 3:53
  Like literally it worked out.
• 3:55
  She had an apartment in Madrid.
• 3:57
  And her parents had an apartment in the same building.
• 3:59
  She says, well, I have a guest in my apartment, but if you go to Madrid, you can stay in my parents' apartment.
• 4:05
  You just have to disappear for one day because they live in the suburbs where they come to the city once a week for their doctor's appointment.
• 4:12
  I was like, that's a good deal.
• 4:14
  So Madrid Spain was my first international trip, besides the Caribbean, besides Mexico.
• 4:20
  And what was your impression of Madrid?
• 4:21
  Yeah.
• 4:22
  I loved it.
• 4:24
  I loved it.
• 4:25
  I mean, it was just so cool to see how different people, how different people live outside of your community.
• 4:31
  But then it's also the same, right?
• 4:34
  One of the things I found most interesting about Madrid was I remember waking up early morning for a walk.
• 4:41
  It must have been like 6 a.m. in the morning.
• 4:43
  And there were young adults leaving the club at like six.
• 4:48
  And there were these huge, huge groups of people leaving the club.
• 4:52
  And I'm like, what's going on?
• 4:54
  It was so amazing.
• 4:56
  So just discovering little things, little small things like that was amazing for me.
• 5:01
  Can you take me back to your childhood?
• 5:03
  What does that look like?
• 5:05
  What kind of life are we living in?
• 5:07
  You know, I grew up in South Central Los Angeles, but it's not what people would think.
• 5:10
  I had a really amazing childhood.
• 5:13
  My mom worked for the University of Southern California, USC.
• 5:16
  So we lived like in this student faculty housing.
• 5:19
  And it was pretty much this oasis of just like, it was like our own little world.
• 5:24
  It was like,
• 5:26
  We would play outside, ride our bikes all day.
• 5:29
  We had really great friends.
• 5:32
  We would use resources around us.
• 5:34
  I remember one time the students had moved in or they had moved in.
• 5:40
  They moved in and they left all these cardboard boxes everywhere.
• 5:44
  And me and my friends actually took the boxes and we made a carnival out of the playground that was in our apartment complex.
• 5:51
  It was crazy.
• 5:52
  We had rides.
• 5:56
  Before we continue, make sure that you join our community by clicking the link below.
• 6:00
  You will get to choose thumbnails before the episodes go live, pick our next destinations, even recommend guests.
• 6:07
  I really cannot wait for you to help me shape where this podcast goes.
• 6:12
  But I feel like that's what my life was like growing up.
• 6:16
  Just, you know, making magic out of nothing, really.
• 6:20
  Did you have siblings?
• 6:21
  Did you have siblings?
• 6:23
  I do.
• 6:23
  I have a twin sister.
• 6:24
  A twin sister?
• 6:25
  I have a twin.
• 6:27
  Please tell me that you love your twin.
• 6:29
  Of course I love my twin.
• 6:30
  I better say I love my twin.
• 6:32
  If I told him I love my twin, I feel like she will use her twin powers to like teletransport here.
• 6:38
  I asked someone else who's also a twin earlier this week if he loves his twin.
• 6:42
  So they're fraternal, but boy girl, right?
• 6:45
  And he was like, you know, I love my sister, but...
• 6:48
  It basically isn't that deep.
• 6:50
  And I was like, what?
• 6:51
  Exactly.
• 6:52
  That made me want to cry.
• 6:54
  No.
• 6:55
  So listen, I love my sister.
• 6:57
  My sister is amazing.
• 6:59
  We're totally different.
• 7:00
  We couldn't be... We're not similar at all.
• 7:02
  She's even taller than I am.
• 7:04
  Okay.
• 7:04
  But...
• 7:06
  I think we didn't get along for a point because my sister thinks that she's my protector.
• 7:10
  And so I'm like, no, I can handle my own situation.
• 7:13
  So, I mean, that's... Did she come out first?
• 7:16
  She did come out first.
• 7:17
  And she's bigger than me.
• 7:18
  Like, she's taller, not bigger, but she's taller than I am.
• 7:21
  And like, even when we were in high school, she's always been a lot more mature.
• 7:25
  But like, when we were in high school, she was like the adult.
• 7:27
  She had boyfriends and she was, you know, she was like an adult.
• 7:31
  And we were like teenagers.
• 7:32
  What's the time difference?
• 7:33
  One minute.
• 7:34
  One minute.
• 7:36
  one minute.
• 7:36
  So like, and if we go somewhere and people say, well, who's the oldest?
• 7:40
  And she was like, I am.
• 7:41
  And then I always tell her, well, we were conceived at the same time.
• 7:45
  So... Well, my twins, the eldest is three minutes, but she is the eldest, honestly.
• 7:51
  And, and I've seen it from, from the beginning, this kind of,
• 7:54
  just all the sister energy.
• 7:56
  You know, if her little sister is crying, she's immediately gone to get the teddy to console her.
• 8:01
  She's more about like the rules and she likes sticking to the way she thinks things ought to be done.
• 8:07
  And I just find it incredibly.
• 8:09
  Yeah, my sister is definitely the big sister.
• 8:11
  But yeah, so we, I mean, I love her and she has a son.
• 8:15
  So I have a beautiful nephew and
• 8:18
  Yeah.
• 8:18
  I love that.
• 8:19
  She came to Cape Town once to stay for three months.
• 8:22
  Really?
• 8:22
  Yeah, she and my nephew.
• 8:23
  And it was so, it was amazing.
• 8:26
  What was her impression of Cape Town?
• 8:28
  She loved it.
• 8:29
  I just wish that she didn't love America as much.
• 8:33
  Okay.
• 8:33
  You know, but she loved it.
• 8:35
  But I think that it's not easy for people to live away from home.
• 8:38
  Not everybody can just live away from home, you know?
• 8:40
  Um...
• 8:42
  But she loved it.
• 8:43
  And now my nephew says he wants to come back and he wants to stay for a little while.
• 8:46
  Yeah.
• 8:47
  Do you wish that your sister lived here?
• 8:48
  I do.
• 8:49
  I do wish that she lived here.
• 8:50
  That would be fun.
• 8:52
  I hope that my girls feel exactly the same way because I was feeling a little bit disheartened earlier this week with the whole twin brother not saying that he was intertwined.
• 9:01
  And now you've kind of given me hope again that the bond is going to last.
• 9:05
  Yeah, but I think honestly, I mean, this is probably a whole nother podcast, but I think that it has to do with how your parents raise you.
• 9:13
  You know what I mean?
• 9:14
  Um...
• 9:15
  my parents, like I even get along with my ex-husband, right?
• 9:19
  But my parents are very much like forgiving people.
• 9:22
  They're not together.
• 9:23
  They haven't been together for years, but they're still best friends, right?
• 9:26
  So they built these relationships that teach you forgiveness and grace for people.
• 9:31
  And I think that when you're a twin, there's a lot more forgiveness and a lot more grace than you have to have than regular siblings.
• 9:38
  Right.
• 9:38
  Because you have the same experiences.
• 9:41
  And this is what I learned from me and my sister, because we have had years where we're just, I'm like, girl, no.
• 9:48
  You know, but...
• 9:50
  because I see things from my perspective, and I think that she should see things the same way, because why not?
• 9:56
  We grew up at the same time.
• 9:57
  We've got what I think are the same experiences.
• 10:00
  But what I had to learn was like, no, we don't have the same experiences.
• 10:04
  Like, my opinion is not always the only opinion.
• 10:09
  Right.
• 10:09
  And so I think just learning that, but yeah, but we're close.
• 10:13
  Like, when we were little, we each had our own bed, but we would sleep in the same bed together.
• 10:18
  It's so sweet.
• 10:19
  Yeah.
• 10:20
  So when she comes here, yeah, we're pretty close.
• 10:23
  Amazing.
• 10:24
  So growing up, it's good.
• 10:26
  Everything's fine.
• 10:28
  And I'm just wondering, because it isn't common for Americans to just get up and pack up and see the world, not even for living, but for travel, what do you think was that push for you?
• 10:40
  Like I said, I've always had this desire to move out of the country.
• 10:44
  And I think that sparked when I was in junior high school and I had a friend, my friend Brandy and her mom, Janet.
• 10:51
  Beautiful, right?
• 10:52
  But Janet was going through something with her husband's nose.
• 10:55
  We were kids.
• 10:55
  We don't know at the time.
• 10:57
  But Janet, she went to Brazil.
• 10:58
  She went to Brazil for like a couple months, right?
• 11:01
  Oh, yeah.
• 11:02
  And this is when we were in high school.
• 11:03
  I'm like, where's your mom?
• 11:04
  Oh, she's still in Brazil.
• 11:06
  And then after we graduated from high school, Janet moved to Brazil.
• 11:11
  And for me, as a young adult, as a little girl growing up in South Central, it was amazing the thought that somebody, I didn't really understand where Brazil was or what moving out of the country was, but I knew it was far and I knew it was different.
• 11:27
  And I was just attracted to that for some reason.
• 11:29
  And so I was like, and it gave me hope that there's a possibility that I could live out of the country.
• 11:36
  So it was weird.
• 11:37
  It was weird that I never knew what it meant to live out of the country, but I wanted to live out of the country.
• 11:43
  If that makes any sense at all.
• 11:45
  So when you're building your family and you're having your children, is this idea of moving out of the country, is that fire always burning?
• 11:55
  Um, it's always like it's simmering, right?
• 11:58
  So when I was in college, my roommate and I, we would talk about what we would do after college, right?
• 12:04
  And this is my freshman year before I had children in college.
• 12:07
  And her thing was she wanted to have a monkey and she was going to travel the world.
• 12:12
  Okay.
• 12:13
  Right.
• 12:13
  And so I was like, girl, I'm not traveling the world like with a monkey, but I would like to live out of the country, right?
• 12:18
  Right.
• 12:19
  You can keep the monkey, but give me the troubles.
• 12:22
  Give me the troubles.
• 12:23
  So we would talk about it.
• 12:25
  And so it was seminary night and then life happens.
• 12:27
  So life happens and I have these children and this husband and I have this great life.
• 12:33
  And as a matter of fact, I'm glad that you bring that up because people will say, oh, they see me in Cape Town.
• 12:37
  They're like, you're living your best life.
• 12:39
  And I live a great life here in Cape Town.
• 12:41
  I love it here.
• 12:42
  But I don't know if it's my best life, right?
• 12:45
  Because that would disrespect the life that I had with my husband and my children and that life, which was a really great life.
• 12:51
  How many children do you have?
• 12:52
  Two.
• 12:53
  Yeah.
• 12:53
  So it was simmering, but it wasn't prevalent, right?
• 12:59
  And then, too, it's not like I had examples of how to just be this digital nomad or how to travel outside of the country.
• 13:08
  And so it wasn't until I was in my 40s, really, that I said, you know what, I'm going to take this trip.
• 13:14
  And honestly, if my friend hadn't said, you can stay in my apartment in Madrid, I probably would have never taken a solo trip that far.
• 13:26
  So I think though it was just like a combination of things that led up to that.
• 13:30
  Having a free place to stay in a foreign country and it wasn't completely free because I did pay something because I'm not that type of person.
• 13:38
  Listen, when you stay with people, you should pay something.
• 13:41
  So anyway, so, but it was, you know, it was pretty much relatively free.
• 13:46
  And it was like welcoming and like her family treated me so nicely and it was easy.
• 13:52
  So because it was such a soft landing from my first experience, stayed in Madrid.
• 13:57
  Her parents would come once a week.
• 13:59
  I remember her dad.
• 14:00
  He left this jug, this big jug of like wine, right?
• 14:06
  Plastic, was it glass?
• 14:08
  I can't remember what it was.
• 14:09
  It was this big jug of wine.
• 14:11
  Wine that he had made from grapes he grew in his backyard.
• 14:15
  So I had this house wine.
• 14:17
  He had one of the hams, their miracle ham, on the counter.
• 14:20
  You know how they have it on the metal thing?
• 14:22
  And they were like, just help yourself.
• 14:23
  So every day I just cut a little piece of ham.
• 14:26
  I had my homemade wine.
• 14:29
  And at this time I had my wine business.
• 14:31
  So this was like so special for me, right?
• 14:34
  Um, and I think having my wine business, that also sparked me to travel because I was studying wine and I was learning about all these different places.
• 14:46
  And so I had been studying Spain and learning about Rioja and, um, all the different regions in Spain.
• 14:52
  And so when she said, I have an apartment and I was like, oh, I just studied this.
• 14:57
  Let me go.
• 14:57
  It's like a no breakback.
• 14:58
  Right.
• 14:59
  Explain to me how you get entwined in the first place.
• 15:02
  Oh, gosh.
• 15:05
  Okay, so this is a funny story.
• 15:07
  After I graduated from college, I was working at the Century Plaza in the St. Regis Hotel in Los Angeles.
• 15:14
  And this was back in the day when you get dressed up to go to work.
• 15:18
  And I would have to walk through the lobby or I could take the tunnel, but I was dressed cute, so I was like, I'm walking through the lobby.
• 15:25
  So I would walk through the lobby to go from one hotel to the next, and I worked in a county.
• 15:31
  And I remember walking through the lobby and seeing all these people with wine on their table.
• 15:37
  Either they were dressed in a suit like they were having a business meeting, or they were dressed really nicely like they were just girlfriends out for lunch.
• 15:43
  And...
• 15:44
  And I was like, I want that life.
• 15:47
  I literally want that lifestyle.
• 15:49
  I want to be drinking wine in the middle of the day.
• 15:51
  And that sparked my interest in wine.
• 15:54
  So then I started asking everybody that I knew, tell me about wine.
• 15:58
  Where should I start?
• 15:59
  What should I drink?
• 16:00
  And that's when I realized that everybody in this wine like know nothing about what they're drinking.
• 16:06
  Nothing.
• 16:08
  But my manager, he knew that I was into wine and I was getting into wine and I was getting into fine dining.
• 16:15
  So he said, you know what, take whoever you want, go have dinner at the St. Regis restaurant.
• 16:21
  And I probably shouldn't say the name, but anyway, the hotel is not there anymore.
• 16:26
  So have dinner in the St. Richard's restaurant, take whoever you want.
• 16:29
  And I took my mom and my sister.
• 16:31
  Now this was my first time at a five-star restaurant.
• 16:36
  I mean, my dad took me to like the best restaurant in Shreveport, Louisiana, which was at the Horseshoe Casino when I graduated from college.
• 16:45
  But this was my first time hosting a five-star dinner.
• 16:49
  So we go and the wine waiter comes over, Ismaye, whatever he was at the time, and he brings over this wine menu that looks like a Bible and I don't know how to read it.
• 16:58
  And I pick a wine, he does the whole ceremony with the towel over his arm, he pours me a little bit of wine, and I lean into my mom and I say, listen, I'm a girl, I can have a full glasses.
• 17:12
  Hot mess, right?
• 17:13
  My mom like nudges me like,
• 17:16
  You're supposed to sip it and tell them that you like it.
• 17:19
  And I was like, oh, okay.
• 17:21
  Well, I sipped it.
• 17:22
  I said, yeah, it's cool.
• 17:23
  I had no idea, right?
• 17:25
  So this was before I started my wine business.
• 17:27
  I had no idea.
• 17:28
  So we get through the whole dinner.
• 17:30
  But I remember leaving that dinner, and I felt so intimidated and so embarrassed.
• 17:35
  And I was like, you know what?
• 17:36
  I'm going to learn as much as I can about wine.
• 17:38
  And that's when my wine journey started.
• 17:40
  That is incredible.
• 17:42
  Yeah.
• 17:42
  And I love that you say that you realize nobody knew anything about wine.
• 17:46
  Because a few years ago, I was with my sister at an event and I had ordered whatever wine I wanted.
• 17:51
  And she goes, you really know your wines?
• 17:53
  I said, no, I don't.
• 17:54
  I know what I like.
• 17:55
  Yes.
• 17:56
  And that's the most important thing.
• 17:58
  And so those, like I have my core pillars that I know where to start from.
• 18:02
  And I have no shame, babe.
• 18:03
  So I'll speak to a sommelier.
• 18:04
  I'm like, this is what I tend to drink, but take me wherever you want to take me so that I can learn more.
• 18:09
  Whereas I feel like the wine industry can, like you say, make people feel uncomfortable.
• 18:14
  But I also think that sometimes people think that they ought to know.
• 18:18
  So they lose opportunities that they could perhaps use as learning moments because they feel that the space doesn't really allow that level of vulnerability.
• 18:27
  Right, but I think of it and people take it so seriously and they get intimidated, right?
• 18:32
  But once the last time you walked into a flower shop and you got intimidated, right?
• 18:36
  You know what colors you like, you know what style of flower that you want.
• 18:39
  You know that maybe you want something that you don't have to water every day or, you know, something that's going to last longer if you have allergies, right?
• 18:46
  And wine is the same way, but I feel like people get so intimidated.
• 18:51
  And picking a wine is just like picking a flower.
• 18:54
  Do you think it also comes with a bit of classism in a way that flowers don't, right?
• 18:59
  Like flowers, I don't feel like, obviously there are expensive flowers and there are cheap flowers, but for wine or dining in general at a particular standard, I wonder if it's because it seems to be quite classist.
• 19:13
  Wine feels like it's not for everyone in the way that flowers might feel.
• 19:18
  Oh, yeah.
• 19:19
  I mean, I think that's where that intimidation stems from, right?
• 19:25
  And it's a combination of things, right?
• 19:27
  Because why did I feel so intimidated?
• 19:29
  Why did I feel embarrassed?
• 19:31
  Why did somebody make me feel uncomfortable in this space that I was sent to because I deserve to be there, right?
• 19:39
  And I think that that's the problem with the wine industry is because they don't leave space for people who just want to explore and enjoy.
• 19:47
  And it should be like that.
• 19:48
  I mean, I feel like there's expensive flowers, right?
• 19:54
  Like if I were going to bring you flowers for a really special event, I wouldn't bring you daisies and carnations.
• 20:01
  Right.
• 20:02
  Right.
• 20:02
  Criations was the first I came.
• 20:04
  Yes.
• 20:04
  I wouldn't bring those to you.
• 20:06
  I would bring you something very, I might bring lilies, like beautiful lilies, beautiful tulips, roses, because they have a certain standard, you know what I mean?
• 20:16
  And line is the same way.
• 20:18
  And it's not about class.
• 20:20
  It's just about like the beauty of it all.
• 20:23
  So anyway, I could go on and on talking about
• 20:26
  I'm interested to know a little bit more about how you go from saying, I'm going to learn, because that's a very personal experience, to I'm going to start my wine business.
• 20:35
  Yeah, so that's it.
• 20:37
  That's, let's grab a story for everything.
• 20:41
  And I really do feel like it's just so weird, right?
• 20:44
  Because like I'm working in accounting, I'm doing an amazing job, my career is growing and I'm in relationships, I'm raising my kids.
• 20:53
  And then I start to like get into wine and I said, you know, how do I learn?
• 20:59
  I'm a very visual, like interactive learner.
• 21:02
  I can't just read a book and just learn.
• 21:04
  I have to read a book to do it, then read again and then do it properly.
• 21:08
  And so I said after that moment that I got embarrassed, I said, you know what, I'm going to start a wine club with my girlfriends.
• 21:14
  Okay.
• 21:15
  My mom had a book club.
• 21:17
  So I was like, you know what, I'm going to start a wine club.
• 21:19
  We're going to meet once a month, and one person is going to be responsible for food and for wine.
• 21:24
  They'll have to tell us why we should drink these together, tell us about the wine.
• 21:29
  And this was a long time ago, so this was before chat, AI, and all this technology.
• 21:33
  You had to actually do the work.
• 21:34
  You had to actually do the research, right?
• 21:37
  so the club was great but we learned about wine through food and that was the best experience for me because when you just taste wine by itself sometimes you might be like oh this is bitter or oh this is too sweet whatever your impression is of the wine if it's just alone
• 21:55
  You might make a judgment too fast, but when you taste it with food, it can change the way that the wine tastes, the way that the wine feels in your mouth.
• 22:04
  So for me, learning about wine through food was literally the best experience I could have ever had.
• 22:11
  And we all did.
• 22:12
  And so after that club ended, it lasted for like three years, four years.
• 22:17
  I started to do the same thing in my house and I started to study wine.
• 22:21
  So during the club I started to officially study wine.
• 22:24
  I studied with the North American Sommelier Association.
• 22:27
  I studied with the Society of White Educators and I was learning about wine.
• 22:32
  So the club ended anytime I learned anything new about wine, I went to show off.
• 22:36
  I would invite people over to my home and I would cook.
• 22:39
  I'm a great home cook most of the times.
• 22:43
  and I would make a meal and then I would pour wine and I would talk to people about the wine.
• 22:47
  And people would say, wow, this is great.
• 22:49
  You're so good at this.
• 22:51
  And I was like, good at what?
• 22:52
  And they were like, no, you're good at this.
• 22:53
  You're so good at just talking about wine, making this feel comfortable, explaining it.
• 22:58
  You just make it all seem so simple and we're comfortable.
• 23:01
  Like, so when people go to restaurants, they either call me when they're at the restaurant or they would order wine on their own and then they would come back and tell me, guess what I did?
• 23:10
  Like, it was amazing.
• 23:12
  So that's how I went from like just drinking wine to learning about wine.
• 23:17
  And then I started my business because accounting was getting boring.
• 23:22
  And I was like, you know what?
• 23:23
  I would love to make some extra money.
• 23:25
  Did you enjoy accounting?
• 23:27
  I enjoyed, I was a functional accountant, so I wasn't a CPA.
• 23:30
  So I worked in accounts payable.
• 23:32
  I was director of accounts payable.
• 23:33
  So I was writing policies and procedures.
• 23:35
  I was managing a team of 12.
• 23:38
  And I was pretty much the social director at the jobs that I worked for.
• 23:42
  Because your energy doesn't give a count.
• 23:44
  No.
• 23:45
  So like, you know, I had a team, but I get the work done.
• 23:48
  But then they'd come to me like I would plan our outing to like Malibu Wines, like for our department.
• 23:54
  And then like I'd plan like the happy hour wind downs.
• 23:58
  So, yeah.
• 23:58
  So, I mean, I love the companies that I worked for.
• 24:01
  I worked for tech companies.
• 24:04
  But I didn't necessarily like accounting.
• 24:07
  But it was functional accounting.
• 24:08
  So it's very much talking to people, customer service and numbers.
• 24:12
  Since I write sheets.
• 24:13
  So I started my business because people were like, oh, you're so good at this.
• 24:17
  I was like, okay, I could make some money on the next side.
• 24:19
  You know, I have a really expensive lifestyle.
• 24:21
  So let me make some extra money.
• 24:23
  And I started this.
• 24:25
  My first product was Gap.
• 24:26
  in-home wine tastings.
• 24:28
  Okay, yeah.
• 24:29
  So I was like, okay, well, I'm already hosting these tastings at home.
• 24:32
  And I just thought about like, what are people gonna pay me for?
• 24:36
  And it has to do with wine, right?
• 24:38
  So I just wrote this business plan for in-home wine tastings and it took off.
• 24:42
  I was the first vendor on Google.
• 24:45
  I had just started doing these in-home wine tastings.
• 24:48
  And you'd go to other people's homes, you would bring your wines with you?
• 24:52
  Yeah, I would bring wines.
• 24:53
  And so I don't have a wine brand.
• 24:55
  I have a wine brand now.
• 24:57
  Shout out to Twanny Rose.
• 24:58
  But I don't have a wine brand per se, right?
• 25:02
  But my whole thing was how to teach people how to taste wine properly, right?
• 25:06
  How to go through the steps.
• 25:08
  So I'd go to like Trader Joe's usually or BevMo, and I'd get the wines.
• 25:12
  And then I'd go to Trader Joe's for the snacks.
• 25:15
  So Trader Joe's is great for snacks.
• 25:16
  So shout out to Trader Joe's for the free commercial.
• 25:21
  I would go to Trader Joe's and I get like chili mangoes or chili pineapples and I get a bottle of Riesling and I show people how you have spicy things with the sweet wine and how the flavors change.
• 25:33
  So if somebody said, oh, I don't drink sweet wine, I don't like sweet wine.
• 25:36
  Now I'm introducing it to you with chili mangoes and Riesling.
• 25:40
  And now you're like, OK, I can do sweet wine.
• 25:42
  It's funny.
• 25:42
  When I first opened my restaurant, I only served rum.
• 25:45
  Right.
• 25:46
  Oh, I'm from Jamaica.
• 25:47
  I'm like, we are only serving rum.
• 25:49
  I love that.
• 25:50
  And in London, everyone is gin and vodka.
• 25:53
  And I was like, why?
• 25:54
  And when you say that people are like, oh, I don't drink sweet wines.
• 25:57
  People used to come and say, oh, I don't drink rum.
• 25:59
  And I'm like, babes, you haven't had the right rum yet.
• 26:02
  Right.
• 26:03
  And it would be such a pleasure to take people through this experience by asking them, what do you normally have?
• 26:08
  Right.
• 26:08
  They tell me a whiskey.
• 26:09
  I said, I have a rum for you.
• 26:10
  Yeah.
• 26:10
  And they look at you like, so if I drink J, you have a, you have a rum for, I have a rum for everybody, honestly.
• 26:16
  And you would be able to kind of just broaden their mind a little bit, introduce them to something else.
• 26:21
  Because a lot of people in the UK, I mean, rum is growing now as a, as a spirit category.
• 26:25
  But at the time, this is like 10 years ago, they thought that rum was just like sweet, cheap.
• 26:30
  supermarket level rum, right?
• 26:32
  And it was really a pleasure to be able to kind of say, hold on, park whatever you think you know about rum and let's kind of like go on this journey together.
• 26:40
  And then in the end, we'd have like little flights where you'd have three types of rum for people to kind of taste.
• 26:46
  And for people who also are willing to spend the money, you get to really kind of go all over the place and change their minds.
• 26:53
  So I can only imagine what you were able to do with people and wine.
• 26:57
  No, and I love that.
• 26:58
  Actually, now I want a rum tasting.
• 27:01
  I used to conduct rum tastings for the same reason, because it's also nice when people are willing to go on that journey with you and you see it click, right?
• 27:10
  Like you see this change.
• 27:11
  That means that they will also continue that exploration even after the experience.
• 27:16
  Even after, right?
• 27:17
  And so next thing you know, they're going in, they're like, hey, do you have any savory rums?
• 27:20
  I want something that's not too sweet.
• 27:23
  And wine is the exact same way.
• 27:25
  Yeah, so that's how I started my business.
• 27:27
  And then I started hosting wine tours and I just loved it.
• 27:32
  I just loved the fact that wine took me around the world.
• 27:35
  So at that time I was still traveling.
• 27:37
  I was still going to different places.
• 27:40
  Well, that's when I started to travel and I started to say, OK, you know what, I have this wine business.
• 27:44
  I'm learning about wine.
• 27:46
  Let me go to the places where they're making the wine.
• 27:49
  When do you decide that you're going to leave your job and fully commit to your wine business?
• 27:57
  That was, it was, I wanted to do it for a long time.
• 28:00
  I remember I kept telling my CFO, like, nah, man, I'm giving you my notice.
• 28:06
  I gave six months notice at my job.
• 28:08
  Wow.
• 28:10
  I was like, I'm giving you guys six months notice.
• 28:13
  I'm moving to Africa.
• 28:14
  And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:16
  But then, and then like every single time, you know, the carrot would be waved.
• 28:21
  So like a CFO or, you know, a manager would go to another company and then they'd call me over and they'd be like, hey, Twanny, come over.
• 28:29
  I'm like, no, I'm moving to Africa.
• 28:30
  And they're like, no, come talk to us.
• 28:32
  Then they wave a big old carrot in my face and I'd be like, oh, shoot, no.
• 28:37
  And so I went through that for like maybe two years.
• 28:40
  Yeah.
• 28:41
  Okay, so I came in 16, but even before 16, I wanted to move to Spain, but that was just like a, I want to move to Spain, but I don't really have a plan.
• 28:50
  After visiting Cape Town in 2016, I was like, no, I want to move to Cape Town.
• 28:56
  But I wasn't sure how I was going to do it or what I was going to do.
• 29:00
  So then I came back in 17.
• 29:01
  Okay.
• 29:02
  And each time I came, I would stay for three weeks.
• 29:05
  And each time I came, I would build community.
• 29:07
  So even before I stepped foot on the continent, I was building community.
• 29:12
  I sent out emails to like some of the people in the wine industry and like some of the prominent black people in the wine industry.
• 29:18
  Basically, it was like, hey, girl, hey.
• 29:21
  Can we be best friends?
• 29:24
  And everybody was so welcoming.
• 29:26
  And so then by the time I landed here, I was connecting with people and building friendships, building business relationships, volunteering.
• 29:33
  I was volunteering for this group called PYDA.
• 29:37
  So 16, 17, and then 18, I'll tell you this funny story.
• 29:42
  This is a great story.
• 29:44
  So I came in 17 and I usually would come in July.
• 29:48
  September, I was at home.
• 29:50
  I was living my best life in LA, but I woke up one morning and I said, you know what?
• 29:56
  You're gonna go and tell your manager that you need a month off because you're gonna go to K-Town and figure this out, right?
• 30:04
  I wasn't gonna tell him all of that.
• 30:05
  I just was gonna tell him I need a month off.
• 30:07
  No matter what he says, you're going to say, need him a thought.
• 30:10
  So I go into my office.
• 30:12
  My manager says, he sends me an email.
• 30:14
  Can I talk to you in our other manager's office?
• 30:16
  Yep.
• 30:17
  They start off the conversation.
• 30:19
  We're laying off 25% of our staff.
• 30:22
  Yep.
• 30:23
  And I work for a tech company.
• 30:24
  So I started smiling because I knew whatever you work for a tech company, you always get something.
• 30:29
  Basically, they wanted me to stay on and finish a couple projects.
• 30:34
  And so they say, if you stay on and you finish these projects successfully, we're willing to give you this bonus.
• 30:40
  And the bonus was six months salary and one year health insurance.
• 30:46
  So, of course, I say yes.
• 30:48
  And this is before you've even given the inclination that you're about to ask for the month off.
• 30:52
  This was before I didn't even have a chance to ask.
• 30:54
  Finally thought, like, won't God do it?
• 30:56
  I don't know if you believe in God, but I'm telling you, God sent me to Cape Town.
• 31:01
  So I go back to my desk and I'm going to work my butt off, right?
• 31:04
  So I go back to my desk.
• 31:05
  My last, this was September.
• 31:07
  My last day in the office was going to be February the 28th.
• 31:10
  I book a ticket for March 3rd to Cape Town.
• 31:15
  And I came to Cape Town.
• 31:17
  I came to Cape Town and I worked.
• 31:19
  Well, not really worked.
• 31:20
  I volunteered for harvest at this wine farm, the Stoenbosch.
• 31:24
  And so I worked harvest for a few weeks.
• 31:26
  I lived in the suburbs.
• 31:28
  I would bry on the weekend.
• 31:30
  My twin came to visit me.
• 31:33
  And then we moved to the city together.
• 31:35
  And then when I moved to the city, that's when it was all over.
• 31:38
  That's when I was like, okay, for sure, this is where I want to live.
• 31:41
  What was it about coming to the city that gave you that reassurance?
• 31:44
  Oh gosh, I live my best 25 year old life.
• 31:48
  like really so i told you i live my life in reverse right so when people were out like partying and doing whatever i was a mom and i was raising kids so i get to the city and um i'm just having a great time i'm out cape town is a vibe like there's clubs this was pre-covet too like the clubs were open every single night of the week literally had a schedule of when you were go clubby
• 32:14
  Like I lived in the suburbs.
• 32:16
  I saw lots of sunlight.
• 32:17
  But during this period, I mean, for a few weeks, I don't even think I was out during the day.
• 32:21
  It was a mess.
• 32:23
  It was a hot mess.
• 32:26
  So that's when I was like, wow, this is where I really want to live.
• 32:29
  And I mean, I did come out during the day because I was still building my community.
• 32:33
  I was building my network.
• 32:35
  I fell into this networking group called Black Seller Club, B-L-A-C-C. And I started hanging out with them, going on their educational excursion trips and building my friendships with all the sommeliers in Cape Town.
• 32:54
  Shout out to my homie.
• 32:57
  meeting all the winemakers and just really falling in, and black, white, or otherwise, like the wine industry, I felt like they kind of rolled out the red carpet and gave me this big hug.
• 33:09
  And yeah, so it was such an easy community to join.
• 33:16
  At the time when you're getting your community together and you're finding your place, do you have a clear vision of what your wine business is gonna look like?
• 33:24
  Girl, no.
• 33:26
  I was in the club, okay?
• 33:28
  Listen, at one point it was so bad that I wasn't even really, like, I was still building my community and my network, right?
• 33:35
  So I wasn't going to let that go.
• 33:37
  But I wasn't really focused on my business, because remember I had that little, you know, savings, a nice little savings, and so like, I was in the club.
• 33:45
  And so at one point I was like, okay, my savings is kind of, you know, going down, I need to have some kind of income.
• 33:51
  So I said, you know what?
• 33:51
  Well, I'm in a club every night, so let me start this business.
• 33:55
  I started a business called Cape Town Club Crawl.
• 34:02
  Oh, gosh.
• 34:03
  So Americans would come to Cape Town, and at this time, like, if you were an American and you went and you stayed at a nice hotel, Black American, and you said, where should I go?
• 34:13
  They would send you to a very, very non-culturally relevant club.
• 34:20
  Okay.
• 34:21
  And you'd be like, where are all my people at?
• 34:23
  Right?
• 34:24
  And so I solved that problem.
• 34:26
  I had Cape Town Club crawl.
• 34:28
  I'm taking you to the hip hop, the Amo piano, the R&B clubs.
• 34:31
  Come with me.
• 34:32
  Amazing.
• 34:33
  And so that was my business.
• 34:36
  And at the time, I was going back and forth, back and forth, because, like, I was still trying to figure it out.
• 34:43
  I was still doing accounting jobs, and I would make money in the States, and then I would come here, and I'd kind of, like, you know, chill out.
• 34:50
  Not chill out, but chill out.
• 34:51
  Right.
• 34:52
  And so then fast forward to 2020, 2020 came and by 2020, I was like, okay, I'm going to start getting it together.
• 35:04
  Right.
• 35:04
  So I was like starting to be a little bit more serious about things and working on things.
• 35:09
  And I started, but my wine tours were not taking off.
• 35:13
  Like I thought that they would take off.
• 35:15
  Okay.
• 35:15
  When I was in America, I started doing wine tours.
• 35:18
  I didn't even know they were wine tours.
• 35:20
  I called them bus trips, right?
• 35:22
  I found out about the Black Old Winery and Salt Thing in Santa Barbara.
• 35:26
  And I said, you know what?
• 35:27
  We're doing a bus trip to Santa Barbara to see the Black Old Winery.
• 35:31
  A dad tour sold out in 10 days.
• 35:34
  Okay.
• 35:34
  50 people.
• 35:36
  So I put it online again.
• 35:37
  It sold out again immediately.
• 35:39
  50 people, right?
• 35:40
  So every weekend I was taking busloads, 50 people, to the Boaco winery.
• 35:45
  So quick question.
• 35:47
  When you say the wine tours weren't getting much traction, this is before you focused on that particular winery?
• 35:55
  This was before.
• 35:55
  This was in America.
• 35:56
  They were getting traction because I focused on the Black Old Winery, right?
• 36:00
  That's how my wine tour business started, right?
• 36:04
  And I wouldn't even call it a wine tour.
• 36:05
  It's like a wine experience business, right?
• 36:09
  And so that was before I moved to Cape Town.
• 36:11
  But I was going back and forth.
• 36:13
  So I'd go back and forth and I would host these wine tours with these people going to the Black-owned wine farm.
• 36:18
  I had an event called Wine Over LA where I would feature Black winemakers.
• 36:23
  It was a Black everything, right?
• 36:25
  I was really leaning into my culture and it was working when I was in LA.
• 36:29
  Then when I came to South Africa, at that time, black owned anything wasn't a thing because they figured you're in the African continent, right?
• 36:38
  Why would you have to promote black owned anything?
• 36:40
  But it is a problem because a lot of restaurants, a lot of wineries are not black owned.
• 36:46
  But nobody wanted to hear that.
• 36:49
  So I didn't, I just, I had wine tours, but I had wine tours like we'd go to the normal wine tours that everybody else was going to, but that just didn't work.
• 36:59
  I wasn't, nobody was abiding for that, right?
• 37:03
  So then COVID happened.
• 37:05
  During COVID, I taught online wine classes.
• 37:07
  Where are you based?
• 37:08
  I was here in COVID.
• 37:09
  So when COVID happened, I decided I was supposed to go home in March.
• 37:13
  I decided to stay here.
• 37:15
  I decided to stay here.
• 37:16
  I stayed here and I taught online wine classes and that was perfect.
• 37:19
  So I was able to make an income.
• 37:21
  How do you do online wine classes?
• 37:22
  Girl, you got to take one.
• 37:25
  No, so like it's online wine classes.
• 37:27
  So like basically I had a couple of them.
• 37:29
  I had a non-drinking one, so like a dry class, which is Wine 101, where I just teach you all about wine, right, from grape to glass.
• 37:36
  And then I had one that was really popular, was my deductive tasting class.
• 37:42
  Where you're at home, I tell you to get a glass of red wine, a lemon, some sods, a spirit, like some alcohol, some vodka, some gin,
• 37:52
  and then I have you make a wine cocktail.
• 37:54
  But the whole point of it is we're going through the aromas of the wine, but we're also talking about the texture of the wine.
• 38:01
  So I'm talking you through this while you're building that wine cocktail when you're at home.
• 38:05
  And then I had a wine club that was a detective wine tasting club where we would meet once a week and that tell people what varietal grape to get.
• 38:13
  I'd have like 20, 30 people on the screen, and everybody has like a Chardonnay, but they have a Chardonnay from different parts of the world.
• 38:20
  Right.
• 38:20
  And then I'm teaching them how to describe the wine like a psalm.
• 38:24
  So how to deductively taste the wine, pull out all the flavors, all the aromas in the wine,
• 38:29
  and they sound like a sommelier.
• 38:32
  So at the beginning of the season, people were like, I don't smell anything, I just smell wine.
• 38:36
  At the end of the season, eight classes later, they're like, oh, I smell cranberries and gooseberries and vanilla and chocolate.
• 38:44
  So that was a club.
• 38:47
  So that ended, well, that ended because all the Americans went back outside.
• 38:52
  Okay.
• 38:53
  So now here I am in K-Town.
• 38:58
  wondering how I'm gonna pay my rent, looking at my electricity and thinking, oh man, maybe I should go home because like, this is like, no Americans are coming, so I'm not hosting any customers.
• 39:11
  And yeah, so what happened?
• 39:14
  So then I was like thinking about how am I gonna do this?
• 39:17
  What's gonna happen?
• 39:18
  I took a walk with my boyfriend at the time and this homeless guy comes up to me, right?
• 39:24
  He taps me on the shoulder.
• 39:25
  I turn around to say I don't have any money.
• 39:27
  I wanted to say like can you give me some money?
• 39:30
  Just joking.
• 39:31
  So he taps me on the shoulder and he hands me a stack of my business cards.
• 39:36
  I used to have these very unique business cards.
• 39:38
  They look like bookmarks, right?
• 39:40
  And he hands me a stack of my business cards and I have all these questions at the time.
• 39:46
  Where did you get these business cards from?
• 39:48
  How did you know they belong to me?
• 39:52
  I just had questions and he couldn't talk.
• 39:55
  He was homeless.
• 39:55
  He was like not really 100% here.
• 39:58
  So I took the cards and I go back.
• 40:00
  But I think the thing was, it was God sending me a message.
• 40:04
  Honestly, like it was an angel because like I was thinking about going home.
• 40:09
  I wanted to go home.
• 40:10
  I couldn't call home and be like, hey, can you send me some money for my rent or my electricity?
• 40:14
  Cause they'll be like, girl, if you don't come home, you have a whole family house.
• 40:18
  You have whole skills.
• 40:19
  You can get you an accounting job just like that.
• 40:21
  Come home, right?
• 40:22
  I'll send you a ticket.
• 40:24
  So I couldn't write home to go home.
• 40:26
  So anyway, I feel like that was a sign from God.
• 40:29
  So basically, when I got those cards, I just thought about, like, what worked for me, right?
• 40:34
  And, like, honestly, this vision came to me and I said, you know what?
• 40:37
  Just lean into your culture.
• 40:39
  It worked for you before.
• 40:40
  It'll work for you now.
• 40:41
  And so then that's when I came up with the concept of Sips with Soul.
• 40:46
  featuring black owned wine brands, wineries, chefs, sommeliers.
• 40:53
  If it has a black sommelier, if it has a black chef, if it's black owned, that's where we're going to go to on our tour.
• 41:00
  And I was connected with all of these people already, so then I just pulled it together to this experience.
• 41:07
  And I started to tell people about it.
• 41:09
  I put it in some groups that I'm in.
• 41:10
  People started to book it.
• 41:12
  Next thing you know, when Americans would come, they'd say, oh, do you want to check out the Black people in the wine space?
• 41:17
  Call Twanee.
• 41:18
  Mmm.
• 41:20
  And so that's how my Steps with Soul tour was born, just me leaning into my culture.
• 41:24
  And then the reporter from the New York Times, John Elyong, he said, somebody told me that if I want to know about Black people in the wine industry, I need to talk to you.
• 41:35
  And I said, okay, yeah, of course.
• 41:38
  And he says, well, can you talk to me about it?
• 41:39
  I want to do a story on it.
• 41:41
  And I said, listen, we can do a story on it, but it cannot be like this, what was me and this negative story about what they're doing to Black people in South Africa, because I don't want to be a part of that.
• 41:52
  This is my community.
• 41:53
  And he's like, no, it'll be a great piece.
• 41:55
  We'll keep it as positive as possible.
• 41:57
  So I said, OK, we'll come on my Sips with Soul Tour.
• 41:59
  So I was able to show him my community and all these really amazing people in the wine space that look like us.
• 42:07
  And he wrote this beautiful article in The New York Times.
• 42:10
  Amazing.
• 42:12
  It was amazing.
• 42:13
  How did you feel at that point?
• 42:15
  Because it feels like, and correct me if I'm summing it up incorrectly, but it feels like you go from questioning if you had made the right decision to stay, if you can make a business out of your passion, to then finding your rhythm and being like, OK, this piece, I'm wondering if that New York Times piece was
• 42:41
  I don't want to say stamp of approval, but just that sign that you needed to say that all of the previous decisions and risks that you took made sense.
• 42:52
  Yeah, I think that was definitely a very big part of it.
• 42:55
  I think I'm a I'm a very big believer of God.
• 42:58
  Right.
• 42:58
  So I think the moment that I got those cards.
• 43:01
  OK, that was the moment that this is where I'm supposed to be.
• 43:06
  And that was the moment where God was saying, you have work to do.
• 43:10
  You know what I mean?
• 43:11
  Like, I love Cape Town.
• 43:13
  It's such a beautiful city, but it's more so, I feel like I have work to do here.
• 43:18
  And I kind of want to leave and go to another city.
• 43:22
  And that might happen because now my work is done.
• 43:25
  There's lots of people doing this Sips with Soul route and visiting Black-owned wine estates and supporting Black-owned businesses, right?
• 43:34
  So now I feel content.
• 43:35
  So now I feel like if I had to leave Cape Town, I could leave Cape Town
• 43:39
  You don't feel like there's unfinished business?
• 43:41
  I don't feel like there's unfinished business.
• 43:43
  Okay.
• 43:44
  I mean, there's definitely more work to do, but like there's people who can carry on the torch, which is great.
• 43:51
  Are there that many people, that many black people or people of color in this wine space?
• 43:56
  Yeah, and Cape Town, and that's why I love Cape Town too.
• 43:59
  That's one of the reasons that I fell in love with the city originally when I came is because I had worked in the wine space in Napa and Sonoma and major regions in the United States in California, but when you go to the vineyards, there's no people who look like us.
• 44:19
  Not in the tasting rooms, not in the vineyards, not in the cellar.
• 44:24
  There's very, very few, right?
• 44:26
  But when you came to Cape Town, we're in the cellars, we're in the vineyards, we're in the tasting rooms, we're in the restaurants, you know, professionals in line.
• 44:38
  Why is it important for black people to be present in these spaces?
• 44:44
  I think if you just take it back to even me when I was a kid, right?
• 44:48
  And knowing that my friend's mom went out of the country, having that representation, seeing somebody who I could relate to doing something so amazing
• 44:59
  it inspired me in some way, right?
• 45:01
  So I think that that's the reason that it's so important.
• 45:04
  People say that color doesn't matter, right?
• 45:06
  Color doesn't matter when we want to go shopping together, when we want to sit at a table and eat together.
• 45:11
  Color does not matter.
• 45:12
  I love all people, right?
• 45:14
  But when I want to be inspired, I want to see somebody who looks like me.
• 45:19
  And I think that that's the beauty.
• 45:20
  And I don't mean to, like, toot my own horn or, like, you know... You want me toot it for you, babe?
• 45:26
  No!
• 45:26
  Toot, toot!
• 45:26
  Toot!
• 45:29
  But when people come up to me in Cape Town, like who are locals who live here and who work in the wine industry, and I've maybe mentored them when they were at PYDA, or maybe they've just seen me in the wine industry.
• 45:43
  It's like that thing, when they see me, I see you, and I see you, you see me, and they feel inspired.
• 45:50
  I mean, they have gone on to do some really great things.
• 45:53
  And that little inspiration that I have for anybody, I feel like that's my purpose for being in Cape Town.
• 45:59
  Yeah, and I don't want to get too deep and, you know, but it's such a good feeling to be here for that.
• 46:05
  Yeah.
• 46:06
  When you say that there are other spaces that you would be comfortable going to, to replicate what you've been able to do here so beautifully, do you have an idea of where these places would look like?
• 46:18
  I don't know because I haven't traveled enough.
• 46:20
  Like, I haven't traveled enough.
• 46:21
  I definitely would want to do it somewhere on the African continent, right?
• 46:27
  Where else on the continent is Interwine?
• 46:29
  Because when I think of Africa and as a continent, be very clear, I'm not thinking of Africa as a country, like how people talk about Africa as one little place, I immediately always think South Africa.
• 46:41
  Yeah, so South Africa definitely is home for like wine growing, grape growing, grape growing, not wine growing, but grape growing.
• 46:48
  But there's other places that you can grow grapes.
• 46:51
  So like I have a winemaker friend.
• 46:54
  She's down in Stafford here in Cape Town, but she also she grew up in Burgundy.
• 47:01
  But she has a vineyard in Togo.
• 47:04
  Like she's planting vines in Togo, right?
• 47:07
  So from, I'm not a winemaker or a venticulturalist, so I'm not talking about from that standpoint.
• 47:14
  I'm talking about the lifestyle bit of it, right?
• 47:17
  And so when you think about it, people all over the continent, they could enjoy this wine life if they had the education to know about it, right?
• 47:27
  Sure.
• 47:27
  And so for me, wine is such a better beverage than heart spirits, right?
• 47:32
  Because when people drink wine, usually they have these really amazing conversations.
• 47:37
  You know, you don't have to drink wine in excess.
• 47:41
  And, you know, it can have some health benefits.
• 47:43
  That's what they say, right?
• 47:44
  But like this wine lifestyle.
• 47:46
  So for example, if I went to Ghana or Rwanda and...
• 47:52
  you know, I haven't been there so I don't know what it's like, but I could imagine.
• 47:56
  I know it's growing and it's changing because Kenya just had their first, well no, this is like the second year I think they went in, they competed in the World Wine Tasting Championship, right?
• 48:09
  But if you could have more of that in different countries in Africa because
• 48:16
  One thing that annoys me is that people think that wine is a Euro-centric thing that people of color can't have access to.
• 48:27
  No matter if you're Chinese, if you're Black, there's other cultures who also enjoy wine and who should also have the same education and access to this lifestyle.
• 48:38
  Like, the wine lifestyle is a beautiful lifestyle.
• 48:40
  Like, come on, you guys.
• 48:42
  Like you're at a table, you have a fancy glass, you usually have an amazing meal and you're having great conversation.
• 48:48
  Who doesn't want that life?
• 48:49
  Yeah.
• 48:50
  And why should it only be reserved for Europeans?
• 48:53
  So true.
• 48:54
  Yeah.
• 48:55
  Do you see a trend from people consuming alcohol?
• 48:59
  Just because in the restaurant industry, we have seen where in the UK people are consuming less alcohol.
• 49:05
  And I just wondered, from your perspective, not being in the UK kind of scene, are you seeing any trends of changes to preferences?
• 49:15
  Well, I think that that's the thing.
• 49:16
  So Western European people are, like, shying away.
• 49:20
  Younger people are shying away from alcohol, right?
• 49:22
  From spirits and wine.
• 49:26
  However, Black women are... Their consumption of wine is growing, right?
• 49:34
  So I think it's probably just like some people are just over it.
• 49:37
  You know, it's a trend, you know, to not drink alcohol right now.
• 49:41
  But wine has been around for a very long time.
• 49:45
  So I don't see it lasting for a very long time where people aren't drinking alcohol.
• 49:51
  wine and spirits.
• 49:52
  It might be similar to veganism, right?
• 49:53
  In the sense that there was a very big trend, particular brands were opening vegan only, like fast, not fast food, but convenient food grab and go.
• 50:04
  And now they're closing them because that trend of everyone getting into veganism is actually dying.
• 50:09
  Yeah, and I think it's too, it's like people, they say, oh gosh, eating meat is so bad, right?
• 50:15
  And we're going to be vegan.
• 50:16
  Then they go vegan.
• 50:17
  Now all the vegan people are having problems because they don't have enough protein in their diets and they meet meat, right?
• 50:23
  And I think the same thing is happening with wine.
• 50:26
  People are revolting.
• 50:27
  They're like, oh, wine and spirits are so bad for you.
• 50:29
  We want to be, you know, we want to biohack our bodies.
• 50:33
  And they're going to like, shoot, you know what?
• 50:35
  Wine is therapy.
• 50:39
  They are going to learn.
• 50:39
  Let these young ones have some kids and some bills and some life happen.
• 50:45
  I'm telling you, they're 30 years old, not drinking wine now.
• 50:48
  But by the time they get to be 45, they're going to be like, pass me.
• 50:51
  Give me that glass.
• 50:53
  So I think that that's just what's happening right now.
• 50:55
  And, um.
• 50:57
  But in our community, wine consumption is growing, and it's growing through education too.
• 51:03
  So it's not just people just, and I love that for us, because it's not like we're just drinking anything just to be drinking.
• 51:10
  Studies show that when Black women or Black people, people of color drink,
• 51:14
  And by alcohol, they're buying premium brands.
• 51:18
  They're invested in educations.
• 51:19
  They're, you know, so it's an experience.
• 51:22
  It's not just a beverage.
• 51:24
  Not to sound like a commercial, but yeah, so...
• 51:30
  And it's just crazy because wine is such a big part of my lifestyle here.
• 51:34
  Honestly, when I first, let me just tell you this story.
• 51:37
  When I first moved here, I had this beautiful apartment.
• 51:41
  People who know me, they know me for this apartment.
• 51:42
  They'll be like, Twyne, do you remember that apartment that you had?
• 51:46
  It was on Bree Street and it was three levels, right?
• 51:49
  So at the top, it was a loft, but then on the second floor was this huge bedroom and a bathroom.
• 51:53
  And the bottom floor was the living room with these huge high ceilings.
• 51:57
  And it was a beautiful, big living room.
• 52:00
  I would have, I would bring wine from California when I would come home.
• 52:04
  and I would always make tacos and have a wine and a taco party.
• 52:08
  That sounds amazing.
• 52:09
  Yes.
• 52:09
  So I invite all my Sam friends, all my local friends.
• 52:13
  At this time, there weren't a lot of Americans in town, so I didn't have any American friends.
• 52:16
  I don't think there was any Americans besides me.
• 52:20
  But I would have this wine and taco party, and I literally had like 50 people in my apartment.
• 52:26
  And so I feel like wine has been such a big part of my journey in Cape Town.
• 52:31
  It's brought me together with my friends, with my community, with my work.
• 52:36
  Yeah.
• 52:37
  I want to ask you a question that you may not have the answer to, but when you speak about like leaning into your community and culture, one thing I have noticed as a restaurateur
• 52:47
  When we have Black American customers come to my restaurant, they would never announce that the reason they're there is because I'm Black and they've researched that it's a Black Wound restaurant.
• 52:57
  But by the end of the meal, they would always be super complimentary, tip on top of the service, like tell you how amazing it was because I was taking Jamaican flavors, but making it a little more foofy foofy, you know, with edible flowers and took out the tweezers like the best of them.
• 53:12
  And they really got what I was trying to do.
• 53:15
  Like I never felt that I had to explain the why or what I was trying to kind of what statement I was trying to make through this dining experience because they got it right.
• 53:25
  And by the end of it, they would then say, you know, we did our research and we're so happy that it matched.
• 53:31
  Yeah.
• 53:31
  You know, what they're expecting or exceeded their expectations.
• 53:34
  And there seems to be like a genuine desire.
• 53:38
  I'm not saying for every Black American, I would never paint everybody with the same brush.
• 53:42
  But, you know, the person that travels to Europe is a different kind of traveler than going to just Cancun for spring break.
• 53:48
  You know what I mean?
• 53:49
  And within that type of Black American community,
• 53:53
  the desire to support black owned businesses seemed to be so genuine right like i felt like these people really wanted me to win even though they didn't know me it wasn't like a personal connection but it was a deep genuine i want to see you thrive yeah and i'm just wondering where where does that come from first of all you just made me hungry um i think it comes from like
• 54:22
  Well, this is my personal opinion.
• 54:23
  I think it comes from us wanting to be included, wanting to feel safe, and wanting to still feel connected to our culture, right?
• 54:32
  So when I go to Jamaica and I have the peas and the rice, oh my gosh, it's so good, right?
• 54:37
  But it's not at a fancy restaurant.
• 54:38
  You're gonna get a takeaway.
• 54:39
  It's not gonna look pretty.
• 54:40
  It's not gonna have an edible flower on it, right?
• 54:42
  But it's so good.
• 54:44
  But sometimes I want to eat that kind of food and I also want to get dressed up and I want to feel fancy and I want to you know if I'm going to spend my money I want to spend it I want to send your kids to college you know and and that feels good and I want to be in a place where I feel safe I feel like I can be myself I can talk the way that I want to talk I can you know I don't have people looking at me wondering how can you how can you afford to be here.
• 55:13
  So I think that that's why people of color, and I'm not even gonna say, yeah, people of color, not even people of color only, like black people only, some white people, some white people want that too.
• 55:26
  They wanna experience the authentic Jamaican culture, but they don't necessarily wanna go to the hood.
• 55:33
  So when you have your restaurant and it's super nice and you're putting flowers on the food, they get your culture, plus they get this elevated experience that they want.
• 55:43
  And I think it's just natural.
• 55:45
  I'm from South Central Los Angeles, right?
• 55:47
  But that doesn't mean that I only wanna stay in South Central Los Angeles.
• 55:52
  I wanna go to these nice restaurants and I wanna eat.
• 55:55
  I wanna go to these nice wine farms and I wanna drink and be happy and be merry and not have to worry about somebody wondering, why am I there?
• 56:04
  How have you changed as a result of your travels and living abroad?
• 56:09
  Mmm.
• 56:11
  I think about that question often.
• 56:12
  Yeah?
• 56:13
  Yeah, I do.
• 56:15
  I think about that question often because I feel like because I've traveled so much,
• 56:22
  I've seen and I know.
• 56:24
  And sometimes I wish I didn't see it, I wish I didn't know.
• 56:27
  I wish I just could be the person that's just gonna go to Calcun and have a taco and not think about what other people are doing around the world, how other people are struggling around the world.
• 56:38
  Is there access, is there equity?
• 56:40
  But because I've traveled, so like in 2024, I went to five countries in 22 different cities in one summer.
• 56:48
  And just traveling and to see how different people live, how different communities are, it's like you see more.
• 56:56
  And when you see more, for me, I want more.
• 57:00
  And not more like financial or material things for myself, but I want more for the world, if that makes sense.
• 57:06
  More impact.
• 57:06
  More impact, right?
• 57:08
  More impact.
• 57:09
  And yeah, so I think that that's how it's changed me.
• 57:13
  Sometimes I wish I just didn't want more.
• 57:14
  I wish I could just be like, girl, let's just, you know...
• 57:18
  Let's not worry about if this is a Black-owned restaurant.
• 57:20
  We're just going to go eat.
• 57:21
  Right.
• 57:22
  I wonder if when you decided to leave, did you feel any sort of reservation or guilt for the fact that your family is there and you are here?
• 57:33
  No.
• 57:37
  No, I mean, I think because I left home...
• 57:39
  I've always been like...
• 57:42
  I left home when I was like for college, right?
• 57:45
  And I never went back home.
• 57:47
  Okay.
• 57:47
  I think I went back home like when I was coming back and forth here, I lived in the family house for like three months at a time because my apartment was in Cape Town, so I would go home and live in the family house.
• 57:58
  Right.
• 57:59
  But I didn't really live there.
• 58:00
  Family house is LA.
• 58:02
  At that time, it was LA.
• 58:03
  Okay.
• 58:03
  They've since moved to Houston, but I haven't been to that house yet.
• 58:06
  Okay.
• 58:07
  But then it was like a visitor, you know what I mean?
• 58:10
  Then it was like, great, because I'm eating the food and I'm not, you know, but I've never felt
• 58:17
  guilt.
• 58:17
  I do feel sad sometimes, right?
• 58:23
  Because I've missed milestone things that have happened.
• 58:26
  You know, I have friends that have gotten married that I was there when they met and I was there when they got engaged.
• 58:34
  Or no, I was there when they got engaged.
• 58:36
  Anyway, life has happened, right?
• 58:39
  I have friends that have kids who were like children, like,
• 58:43
  in elementary school and now they're like graduating from high school and so those things I miss a lot.
• 58:51
  I'm going home in May and I can't wait to catch up with everybody but before then I was like the only thing I miss are tacos like if you want to see me come to Cape Town.
• 59:02
  And people were coming, but now I'm like, I can't wait to go home.
• 59:05
  I can't wait to pass out so many hugs and just like catch up on my, and then two people were like, you know, I lost a really good friend while I've been here.
• 59:15
  She died.
• 59:17
  Family members have died.
• 59:18
  So like those moments are hard when you live abroad.
• 59:21
  How do you manage grief from a distance?
• 59:24
  I don't think I do well.
• 59:26
  I think I put it in a box and say, okay, well, it's, you know, like you, maybe life is standing still and you just want to remember it just like that.
• 59:36
  And I had an aunt who died last year, the year before last, because we're already in another new year.
• 59:43
  And we were very close.
• 59:44
  And she was sick with cancer for a very long time, so we were connecting and we had talked.
• 59:48
  But when she died, I felt sad, but I didn't feel...
• 59:52
  I don't remember just releasing this pain.
• 59:56
  And then just recently, I had another friend in L.A.
• 59:59
  He was like a childhood friend.
• 1:00:01
  You know, he was like my play cousin.
• 1:00:03
  And he died all of a sudden, right?
• 1:00:07
  And when my mom called to tell me, I literally just cried, like uncontrollable crying.
• 1:00:15
  And my mom probably thought, well, this is weird.
• 1:00:17
  You didn't cry like this when I told you your aunt had died.
• 1:00:20
  But I think it was all of that sadness of like my aunt, my grandmother died.
• 1:00:24
  I wasn't there.
• 1:00:25
  And I think in that moment, I was just like, so like, I'm really happy to be going home because, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:33
  So when you left California, you said you went to Shreveport?
• 1:00:39
  Shreveport.
• 1:00:39
  Shreveport.
• 1:00:40
  Shreveport.
• 1:00:41
  I had to Google it.
• 1:00:43
  The right way to say it is Shreveport.
• 1:00:46
  Shreveport.
• 1:00:47
  Yeah, but you know, if you're from, you know, here you say Shreveport, Pote City, Louisiana.
• 1:00:52
  Tell me about Shreveport.
• 1:00:55
  So, you know, like the food is so good in New Orleans, right?
• 1:00:57
  I love New Orleans.
• 1:00:59
  I love New Orleans.
• 1:01:00
  No, but I love, so okay.
• 1:01:01
  I go there for my birthday and I don't even know why I chose there, to be honest with you.
• 1:01:06
  The food?
• 1:01:07
  Absolutely.
• 1:01:07
  Because you're a chef.
• 1:01:08
  But this is long before chef.
• 1:01:09
  I'm still in college.
• 1:01:10
  This is long before like chef.
• 1:01:12
  It's been your soul.
• 1:01:13
  But it was it was such an incredible experience to be there from a culinary perspective, from arts.
• 1:01:19
  Like there was this guy, I got one of his paintings at the time.
• 1:01:22
  It's a few years after Katrina, and he was using scraps of ply from Katrina.
• 1:01:28
  to paint these jazz images and they are super colorful.
• 1:01:32
  And it was too cheap.
• 1:01:33
  I said, boss man, he was like selling them in the street.
• 1:01:36
  I was like, but these are too good and too cheap.
• 1:01:38
  I'm going to buy one at the cheap price, but I'm just telling you, it's too cheap, right?
• 1:01:43
  And I remember also just like, you go into a club on one street,
• 1:01:47
  but then like you go to literally the next street and you're in like a jazz club i bought a cd i didn't even have a cd player but you just wanted to show some love for the music because it was so good and the accents like i was just like staring at people because the accent was just so sing song everything i loved everything i love new orleans too the world is the food is so good the culture the arts everything the music
• 1:02:12
  But Shreveport is not Louisiana.
• 1:02:14
  I mean, not New Orleans, not New Orleans.
• 1:02:15
  It's Louisiana.
• 1:02:17
  So one is at the top and one is at the bottom.
• 1:02:18
  So it's kind of like maybe Cape Town and Johannesburg or vice versa, right?
• 1:02:22
  Because Johannesburg is where the culture is.
• 1:02:25
  But Shreveport, Louisiana, it's a lovely, lovely place.
• 1:02:30
  Small town vibes, like it's a bigger city, but it's small town vibes.
• 1:02:36
  And yeah, so I lived there after college.
• 1:02:38
  My husband is my ex-husband was from there and that's where we lived.
• 1:02:44
  Yeah.
• 1:02:45
  How did that differ?
• 1:02:46
  How did that change you?
• 1:02:47
  Obviously, it's a crucial time in your life in the sense that you're just leaving college anyway.
• 1:02:51
  So you're managing new things, but you're in a new place.
• 1:02:54
  I think that that prepared me for Cape Town, honestly.
• 1:02:57
  In what way?
• 1:02:58
  Because I was living away from home.
• 1:03:01
  I had a child and then I had another child, but I had a child.
• 1:03:06
  I was living away from home.
• 1:03:08
  I remember when I first, so we lived in Shreveport and then we went home to LA.
• 1:03:15
  We got married and then we came back to live in Shreveport.
• 1:03:19
  And I remember,
• 1:03:21
  from the wedding, somebody had bought a box of dishes, right?
• 1:03:24
  And they shipped the dishes to me.
• 1:03:26
  When I got the dishes, the dishes were like in shambles.
• 1:03:30
  They were all broken, right?
• 1:03:32
  I cried like a baby.
• 1:03:33
  Obviously, you guys know I'm a crier.
• 1:03:36
  I cry for a lot of reasons, but I cried like a baby because all the dishes were broke, right?
• 1:03:42
  And I remember and I cried like a baby.
• 1:03:45
  All the dishes were broke.
• 1:03:46
  My daughter's outside.
• 1:03:48
  She's playing with some fire ants.
• 1:03:50
  She comes to show me her hand.
• 1:03:51
  Her hand is all blistered up from these fire ants.
• 1:03:53
  She's crying and I'm like having an internal meltdown.
• 1:03:59
  Like for me at that moment...
• 1:04:03
  it was the worst situation ever.
• 1:04:04
  Right.
• 1:04:05
  And I remember calling my mom to tell her and she was just like, girl, calm down.
• 1:04:12
  Like, it's not that serious.
• 1:04:14
  I'm gonna send you some money.
• 1:04:15
  You go to the Walmart, you buy some new dishes, like, and put some alcohol in your baby's hand or whatever.
• 1:04:20
  You know what I mean?
• 1:04:21
  Whenever she told me to do to this child.
• 1:04:24
  Um, yeah.
• 1:04:25
  But at that moment, when I finally stopped crying, I just realized that, yeah, she's right.
• 1:04:32
  I can just go to Walmart.
• 1:04:33
  Like, it's not the end of the world, right?
• 1:04:36
  So I think it prepared me for living in another country so far away from home.
• 1:04:42
  It's because if something happens, it's not the end of the world.
• 1:04:46
  You know, it could be worse.
• 1:04:49
  You know, and yeah, so I think that that just gave me that it could be worse.
• 1:04:54
  Like you're going to be okay.
• 1:04:55
  You can figure this out.
• 1:04:57
  You can work this out.
• 1:04:58
  And so I lived in Shreveport.
• 1:04:59
  We worked it out.
• 1:05:00
  I had to find a job.
• 1:05:01
  You know, I didn't have my parents like to, you know, to rely on.
• 1:05:06
  I had to rely on myself and my husband, my ex-husband.
• 1:05:10
  Yeah.
• 1:05:10
  So that's what it gave me.
• 1:05:11
  It gave me this self-reliance and it's like, girl, it's not that bad.
• 1:05:16
  Where do your kids live?
• 1:05:17
  So my daughter's a flight attendant.
• 1:05:18
  She lives in Chicago.
• 1:05:21
  She's beautiful.
• 1:05:22
  And my son, he's very handsome.
• 1:05:25
  He lives in Houston, Texas.
• 1:05:26
  Okay.
• 1:05:27
  Have they come and visited you?
• 1:05:28
  Yeah.
• 1:05:28
  So my daughter, since she's a flight attendant, at one point, she has a man now, but at one point she was here every other month.
• 1:05:35
  Like so much so that she had a drawer at the house.
• 1:05:37
  She could just come with nothing, basically.
• 1:05:39
  She have clothes and she has friends.
• 1:05:43
  So she has a friend group here.
• 1:05:44
  She has a great community here.
• 1:05:47
  So sometimes she would come and she'd be like, hey, I'm out.
• 1:05:49
  Like she wouldn't even want cuddle time.
• 1:05:51
  She's like, I'm going to see my friends.
• 1:05:54
  And then my son's been here once and he loved it too.
• 1:05:57
  But he's not a big traveler.
• 1:05:59
  Yeah.
• 1:05:59
  Okay.
• 1:06:00
  He doesn't have the itch that you have.
• 1:06:01
  He doesn't have the itch that I have and that my daughter has.
• 1:06:03
  Okay.
• 1:06:04
  Yeah.
• 1:06:05
  Have you ever thought about returning to the States?
• 1:06:08
  Like full time?
• 1:06:09
  Yeah.
• 1:06:10
  Like forever?
• 1:06:11
  Yeah.
• 1:06:12
  Oh.
• 1:06:15
  I have.
• 1:06:16
  I have.
• 1:06:16
  And the only the only reason that I have is because I'm not independently wealthy.
• 1:06:23
  And so I think about like retiring and like, you know, what does retirement look like?
• 1:06:29
  Yeah.
• 1:06:30
  So that's that's the only reason that I've thought about moving to the States.
• 1:06:36
  But with the way things are going in the States, who knows?
• 1:06:38
  I don't know.
• 1:06:39
  Like, no, I don't.
• 1:06:41
  It's not.
• 1:06:41
  It wouldn't be my dream if money and time and space were not if money were not a thing.
• 1:06:47
  I would not think about moving back to the States.
• 1:06:50
  Culturally, do you feel very American?
• 1:06:52
  Yes, I do feel very American.
• 1:06:54
  And I have to check myself on my very American-ness, right?
• 1:06:57
  Because like.
• 1:06:58
  Americans, we have very strong opinions about things.
• 1:07:01
  Americans were very loud.
• 1:07:04
  Americans were very rushed.
• 1:07:07
  And so I am very American and I have to check myself on my very American-ness.
• 1:07:12
  Okay.
• 1:07:13
  How is your Americanness received in Cape Town?
• 1:07:17
  I know you mentioned that back in the day when you first started coming here, there weren't as many Americans.
• 1:07:22
  So I'm just wondering, obviously, now that there are more, I imagine people kind of know the American way, right?
• 1:07:27
  When places become more populated with different countries, the local people kind of find a rhythm.
• 1:07:33
  But when you came in the beginning, if there weren't that many people here, what was the impression of you?
• 1:07:37
  Oh, we were, I mean, I think I was very well received.
• 1:07:40
  I definitely was very well received.
• 1:07:42
  So, yeah, we do have some very challenging traits as Americans.
• 1:07:47
  But we also do have very amazing traits.
• 1:07:49
  Like, we're very positive.
• 1:07:52
  We're, like, problem solvers, right?
• 1:07:54
  Like, it's a good thing and a bad thing.
• 1:07:57
  Like, I won't take no for an answer.
• 1:07:59
  Even if I go to a restaurant and they're like, there's no tables that we have.
• 1:08:01
  All these tables are reserved.
• 1:08:03
  I'm like, wait a minute.
• 1:08:05
  That table right there and that you have five tables in here.
• 1:08:08
  Like, you got to let me sit down for an hour.
• 1:08:11
  Like, we go negotiate.
• 1:08:12
  Like, I don't take no for an answer.
• 1:08:14
  And that's a good thing.
• 1:08:15
  And it's a bad thing.
• 1:08:16
  Right.
• 1:08:18
  So I think and, you know, one of the things that you hear growing up as a little girl is like all the stereotypes when they say that African people, black Africans don't like black Americans.
• 1:08:28
  Right.
• 1:08:29
  But I've never experienced that.
• 1:08:31
  Like, I've only experienced love and community and support.
• 1:08:37
  Yeah, and there's more Americans here, and I think, I just hope that, you know,
• 1:08:47
  I came for a different reason.
• 1:08:49
  So I think I came with a different vibe, right?
• 1:08:52
  Because you were pursuing one?
• 1:08:54
  No, because I was pursuing a community.
• 1:08:56
  Okay.
• 1:08:57
  You know, I wasn't pursuing like a quick fix.
• 1:09:01
  I wasn't running from something.
• 1:09:02
  I wasn't coming here because, oh, it's so cheap.
• 1:09:05
  I was coming here because I was literally pursuing.
• 1:09:07
  I wanted to be in a community.
• 1:09:11
  And so I just think that there's a lot of Americans here now.
• 1:09:16
  And they come for different reasons, which is fine.
• 1:09:18
  Especially in December, there's all the parties and they come to party.
• 1:09:21
  Hey, listen, I did that for like a year or two, maybe.
• 1:09:25
  I don't know, right?
• 1:09:27
  But I was building community.
• 1:09:28
  So I'm not judging that.
• 1:09:30
  But I'm just saying that it depends on why you... And that goes for anywhere.
• 1:09:35
  You know what I mean?
• 1:09:36
  Why you go there is going to determine how you live there.
• 1:09:40
  And I've always had this thing where I said, live like a local.
• 1:09:44
  And I've lived like a local.
• 1:09:45
  I've been going to Kailicha to Rand for years.
• 1:09:49
  I've been going to Langa.
• 1:09:50
  I've been living like a local.
• 1:09:52
  So I'm not afraid to live like a local in this country.
• 1:09:57
  Do you think there are any misconceptions about your life in South Africa?
• 1:10:01
  Yeah!
• 1:10:02
  People think I drink every single night.
• 1:10:04
  They think I party every single night.
• 1:10:06
  And it's only every other night.
• 1:10:07
  No.
• 1:10:08
  Not these days.
• 1:10:09
  These days.
• 1:10:09
  It's the new 20.
• 1:10:10
  It's 22.0.
• 1:10:11
  No.
• 1:10:14
  I think that people...
• 1:10:17
  And I don't think that people understand, like, what it takes to have a business, to be a solo entrepreneur.
• 1:10:27
  I work really hard.
• 1:10:28
  Like, I was up at 5 o'clock this morning, and that's normal for me to be up between 5 and 6 in the morning.
• 1:10:36
  Yeah, you know, it takes a lot of tenacity to, like, build these relationships, you know, because sometimes you just have to keep, you know, keep going at these relationships to get what you want, right?
• 1:10:49
  And it pays off.
• 1:10:50
  It's a slow burn.
• 1:10:51
  It's not a fast burn.
• 1:10:54
  So, yeah, I think that people just think.
• 1:10:56
  They see me on Instagram and I always tell people Instagram is half the story.
• 1:11:00
  It might only be 25% of the story, but Instagram is not real life, you guys.
• 1:11:05
  Instagram is a story that I want to tell you.
• 1:11:08
  It's a very good parts of Cape Town because I want you to see that, you know, Africa is this beautiful place, this continent.
• 1:11:15
  There's so many beautiful cities and so many countries in Africa that are awesome.
• 1:11:20
  Cape Town could be your first stop.
• 1:11:22
  And I want people to see how beautiful it is.
• 1:11:25
  nobody wants to see me when I'm at home and I'm crying because I lost a friend or broke up with a boyfriend or you know I didn't get the deal that I wanted to get those moments people don't want to see they want to see me dancing and I love dancing you know they want to see me in a vineyard and that's what I showed them but that's that's half the story
• 1:11:50
  What is the challenges of living abroad?
• 1:11:53
  Not necessarily specific to Cape Town, but I just mean from being far away from the familiar.
• 1:11:59
  It's just that.
• 1:12:01
  It's just being far away from your family, family,
• 1:12:06
  That's the biggest challenge.
• 1:12:08
  I mean, honestly, I feel like that's the only challenge, is being away from your family.
• 1:12:12
  And Cape Town is easy because people speak English.
• 1:12:14
  So it's not like I have this, I had a friend who was an expat in Paris and, you know, they speak French for the most part.
• 1:12:21
  So she had to learn French.
• 1:12:24
  So Cape Town is, Cape Town is pretty much a soft landing.
• 1:12:27
  So I don't know if it's, if it's fair to compare it to other places.
• 1:12:32
  Did that influence your decision to move here?
• 1:12:35
  Were you looking for the soft landing?
• 1:12:37
  I don't know because I almost moved to Spain and I don't speak Spanish.
• 1:12:41
  I mean, I speak .
• 1:12:44
  But so I wasn't necessarily looking for the soft landing, but that definitely helped.
• 1:12:50
  Like it definitely helps that people speak English here.
• 1:12:53
  It definitely helps that we have running water.
• 1:12:56
  I mean, I was here during day zero.
• 1:12:58
  But that, you know, we have electricity, we have infrastructure.
• 1:13:02
  So it feels a lot like being in LA.
• 1:13:05
  It honestly feels a lot like being in LA.
• 1:13:09
  Yeah.
• 1:13:09
  For this phase of your business, you alluded to the fact that, you know, people don't get to see the hard work that goes into it.
• 1:13:16
  What are you building?
• 1:13:18
  Like, what is the, what are the things that you're working on?
• 1:13:22
  Yeah, so I was just doing my project list this morning, right?
• 1:13:26
  And I have nine projects, you guys, nine projects, because I think I'm insane.
• 1:13:32
  But I'm still focused on wine education.
• 1:13:36
  So I do like tasting rooms at home.
• 1:13:41
  So like my first product that I had.
• 1:13:43
  So I'm building that and I'm expanding that to Johannesburg.
• 1:13:46
  Okay.
• 1:13:46
  Okay.
• 1:13:47
  Yeah, I have an annual project called Afro Wine Week, which is a lifestyle and business summit intended to create pathways for wealth and opportunity for Black people in the wine industry or people of color in the wine industry.
• 1:14:02
  It's here in Cape Town, but it's a global summit.
• 1:14:05
  So like we have people from all over the diaspora who come.
• 1:14:09
  Last year, we had people from Rwanda, France, Ghana, America, and Cape Town and South Africa, of course.
• 1:14:17
  And then my Sips with Soul tour, which, you know what, the Sips with Soul tour is getting away from me, kind of.
• 1:14:25
  Like, you know, I still host very bespoke for private clients, but now it's like open and I've published it on website, my Sips with Soul route.
• 1:14:37
  So that people can look at these routes and they can like do them on their own.
• 1:14:41
  So they don't have to come with me like you come with me.
• 1:14:43
  It's a very curated, wonderful experience.
• 1:14:46
  I really want people to look at these routes and go support these businesses.
• 1:14:52
  And then I'm coming out with a book called I Like My Wine Like I Like My Men.
• 1:14:58
  Ooh.
• 1:14:59
  It's a no-nonsense wine guide.
• 1:15:03
  So I'm super excited about it.
• 1:15:04
  I love the typing.
• 1:15:06
  Yeah, I do too.
• 1:15:07
  Yeah, but it's like one of my secretion wines and I say I'm my wine tasty.
• 1:15:11
  Okay, I use a lot of dating analogies.
• 1:15:14
  So I'm super excited for that book because that book is just like my marketing tool so that I can continue to spread the word about people who look like me in the wine industry.
• 1:15:23
  How is dating in Get Dane?
• 1:15:27
  That's so funny.
• 1:15:28
  That's the number one question.
• 1:15:30
  Really?
• 1:15:30
  I promise you, that is the number one question men and women ask me.
• 1:15:35
  Really?
• 1:15:36
  I hosted Gabrielle Union at the Wade, and that was her question.
• 1:15:40
  She was walking with the Wade, and she ran up to me, and I was like, okay, is everything okay?
• 1:15:45
  And she was like, can I ask you something?
• 1:15:47
  And I was like, yeah, of course.
• 1:15:49
  What's dating like here?
• 1:15:50
  And I was like, girl, you're not trying to upgrade if I come in here, are you?
• 1:15:53
  Because it won't work.
• 1:15:55
  But, yeah, that's the number one question people ask me all the time.
• 1:15:58
  I have so many customers, strange women, strange men.
• 1:16:02
  What's dating like here?
• 1:16:04
  And dating is, girl, that's a whole other podcast.
• 1:16:09
  But it's interesting.
• 1:16:11
  It's fun.
• 1:16:11
  It's interesting.
• 1:16:12
  I have a boyfriend now, the man.
• 1:16:17
  Um, we've been together for like a year, but before, before I dated him, listen, I don't even know if I can say this.
• 1:16:23
  You can say.
• 1:16:24
  Before I dated him, I was like, listen, when I spent that summer in Europe, I was like, I'm all about the pasta and the lobster.
• 1:16:32
  I'm just gonna, you know what, I'm not gonna date in Cape Town anymore.
• 1:16:35
  I'm just gonna have European love summers.
• 1:16:38
  That's what I said before I met him.
• 1:16:40
  And two weeks later, I meet him and now we've been together for like a year and a half.
• 1:16:43
  So is it a challenge dating him?
• 1:16:45
  Oh, gosh, it's more than a challenge.
• 1:16:47
  It's like Squid Games.
• 1:16:48
  Why?
• 1:16:50
  Because Cape Town, Cape Town in particular, Cape Town is like a small town in a big city.
• 1:16:56
  Okay.
• 1:16:57
  So I tell people it's very incestuous.
• 1:17:00
  Like everybody knows everybody.
• 1:17:02
  Like me and you could be dating the same man.
• 1:17:04
  Okay.
• 1:17:05
  No lie.
• 1:17:06
  Okay.
• 1:17:07
  It's funny because in Thailand, when I ask people the question, they say that for men, it's great to be in Thailand.
• 1:17:13
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:17:14
  For the men.
• 1:17:14
  But for women, they were telling me that it's almost impossible.
• 1:17:18
  Someone said to me, you have to be B-Y-O-M.
• 1:17:21
  I said, well, she said, do you need to bring your own man?
• 1:17:23
  And then be careful with that, right?
• 1:17:26
  So, but the thing about it is, I think just like Thailand, Cape Town is a very transient city, right?
• 1:17:31
  So men have their options because there's always people, there's always women coming into town, right?
• 1:17:39
  And when these women come into town, they're on vacation.
• 1:17:41
  You know how it is when you're on vacation?
• 1:17:42
  You went to a vacation, boo?
• 1:17:44
  And your man is going to be their vacation boo.
• 1:17:47
  I mean, because there's always women coming into town, right?
• 1:17:51
  And so the men have it easy because there's always somebody coming into town.
• 1:17:56
  And the men will tell you where the women have it easy because it's the same thing.
• 1:18:00
  But I'm team woman, so I don't know what they're talking about.
• 1:18:03
  But yeah, it's tough.
• 1:18:05
  And I mean, there's some good guys out here, of course.
• 1:18:07
  You know what I mean?
• 1:18:07
  There's always going to be, you know...
• 1:18:10
  What is it called?
• 1:18:11
  A diamond in the rough.
• 1:18:12
  But like, you gotta believe, really.
• 1:18:14
  Is it easier dating in the States?
• 1:18:17
  I dated well in the States.
• 1:18:19
  I mean, I don't know.
• 1:18:20
  I used to date nicely in the States.
• 1:18:22
  And I mean, I don't even know if I could talk about this part of it.
• 1:18:25
  Like, there's... Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:18:30
  I dated in the States nicely.
• 1:18:31
  I liked dating in the States.
• 1:18:33
  What part can you not tell me?
• 1:18:35
  I think you're about to find my husband in LA.
• 1:18:38
  So, I need to know this.
• 1:18:40
  I think that, like, social economic, it's hard here in Cape Town, right?
• 1:18:46
  You have a group of men who are much older and they're looking for much younger women.
• 1:18:51
  Okay.
• 1:18:52
  And then you have men who might be your age.
• 1:18:56
  But financially, there's just not a lot of opportunity for non-Europeans who come with their own money in Cape Town.
• 1:19:04
  Right.
• 1:19:04
  If that makes sense.
• 1:19:06
  JoBurg might be easier for dating.
• 1:19:08
  Okay.
• 1:19:08
  I think JoBurg is a lot easier for dating.
• 1:19:10
  Did you ever single or live in JoBurg?
• 1:19:12
  Yeah.
• 1:19:13
  Even when I was single and I went to JoBurg for a few weeks, I stayed in JoBurg for like four weeks, maybe six weeks.
• 1:19:20
  people kept saying, are you coming home?
• 1:19:22
  Are you coming home?
• 1:19:22
  It's okay.
• 1:19:24
  And I was having a great time in Johannesburg.
• 1:19:26
  And I love Johannesburg.
• 1:19:27
  I will live in Johannesburg, but there's no wine culture in Johannesburg.
• 1:19:31
  There's no vineyards.
• 1:19:32
  Like, well, no, there's no, not the vineyard part.
• 1:19:35
  No, but I need to be able to go to the vineyard.
• 1:19:37
  I need to be able to take my shoes off and walk in the vineyards and like, you know, uh, no, I could probably do both.
• 1:19:44
  Like if I'm,
• 1:19:45
  Yeah, I could probably do both, but I could not live 100% in Johannesburg.
• 1:19:50
  It's like landlocked.
• 1:19:51
  There's no ocean.
• 1:19:52
  A lot of people use that.
• 1:19:54
  Yeah, I have like a view of the ocean.
• 1:19:56
  I wake up every morning to a beautiful view of the ocean, and I'm not super close to the ocean, but I could see it clear as day, and I love that.
• 1:20:05
  What other things do people ask you when they're asking about life in Cape Town?
• 1:20:10
  Let me see.
• 1:20:10
  I just did a blog on this the other day, a little blog on this.
• 1:20:13
  They asked me about dating.
• 1:20:15
  They asked me about what I miss the most.
• 1:20:16
  Okay.
• 1:20:18
  They asked me about the food.
• 1:20:22
  Yeah.
• 1:20:23
  What do you miss the most?
• 1:20:24
  Tacos.
• 1:20:25
  Besides family and friends.
• 1:20:27
  Besides family and friends, tacos.
• 1:20:30
  Do you have a spot here that gets the feed?
• 1:20:32
  No.
• 1:20:32
  Oh, okay.
• 1:20:33
  I make them at home.
• 1:20:35
  Right.
• 1:20:35
  No, there's no.
• 1:20:36
  And people be like, no, but they make good tacos here.
• 1:20:38
  You have to.
• 1:20:39
  No.
• 1:20:39
  What makes a good taco?
• 1:20:41
  Mexican flavors.
• 1:20:42
  It's kind of like Jamaican flavors, right?
• 1:20:44
  Like you...
• 1:20:46
  If you throw one thing in a Jamaican dish, it doesn't become Jamaican anymore.
• 1:20:50
  Right.
• 1:20:50
  Right.
• 1:20:51
  And Cape Town flavors, they like sweetness in their food.
• 1:20:54
  Right.
• 1:20:55
  And Mexican food has no sweetness.
• 1:20:58
  It just doesn't have sweetness.
• 1:20:59
  Right.
• 1:21:00
  So, yeah.
• 1:21:01
  And then some places will put, like, weird things in their tacos.
• 1:21:04
  There's this one place they put raisins in their tacos.
• 1:21:07
  No.
• 1:21:07
  No.
• 1:21:08
  Mm-mm.
• 1:21:09
  Mm-mm.
• 1:21:10
  I mean, raisins are questionable at the best of times.
• 1:21:12
  It's like alone in a taco.
• 1:21:13
  Especially in your potato salad, right?
• 1:21:16
  Yeah, so no raisins in a potato salad or in a taco.
• 1:21:19
  But yeah, like, what else do people ask me all the time?
• 1:21:23
  Definitely about the dating.
• 1:21:24
  Definitely about the food.
• 1:21:25
  What I miss.
• 1:21:27
  No, but people, you know, people have, they all have a lot of questions.
• 1:21:32
  Really?
• 1:21:32
  Yeah, people have a lot of questions.
• 1:21:36
  Like, what do you do all day?
• 1:21:38
  I'm like, I work.
• 1:21:40
  Do people get the impression that it's just vacation all the time?
• 1:21:43
  Yes.
• 1:21:43
  People think that I'm on vacation all the time.
• 1:21:46
  And especially when people want to come visit me too.
• 1:21:48
  Like, that's the thing.
• 1:21:49
  Can I just say this for the record?
• 1:21:51
  Don't come here and tell me you want to go to Finn and you want to go to La Colum and you're not paying for me.
• 1:21:56
  Like, I'm not on vacation.
• 1:21:58
  Like, because Cape Town is such a vacation place and they want to do all the vacation.
• 1:22:02
  Some of my friends get mad at me because I don't do Robin Island and Table Mountain.
• 1:22:06
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:22:06
  I'm like, I will only do those if you're related to me by blood or if I birth you.
• 1:22:11
  But other than that, no.
• 1:22:13
  If you birth me or if I birth you, I'll do them.
• 1:22:15
  Like when my mom comes, anything she wants to do, I'll do it.
• 1:22:18
  Sure.
• 1:22:18
  Yeah.
• 1:22:19
  But yeah.
• 1:22:21
  Is there anything that we haven't touched on that you wanted to share?
• 1:22:24
  Oh, God.
• 1:22:26
  There's a lot that we haven't talked about.
• 1:22:28
  No, I'm just talking.
• 1:22:30
  No, I think that we covered a lot.
• 1:22:33
  Um...
• 1:22:35
  No, I just want to say thank you to Cape Town, to South Africa, to all the people for welcoming me into their community.
• 1:22:45
  And I love it here.
• 1:22:47
  I feel loved.
• 1:22:48
  So, yeah, that's the only thing I really want to say.
• 1:22:51
  So my last question for you, if your life was a postcard, what would the picture look like?
• 1:22:55
  Oh, wow.
• 1:22:56
  What a great question.
• 1:22:57
  Yeah.
• 1:22:58
  Oh, wow.
• 1:22:58
  I'm sure it'll probably be me with a bottle of wine, not a glass, a bottle, on a beach next to a vineyard.
• 1:23:05
  Amazing.
• 1:23:05
  Yeah.
• 1:23:06
  Thank you very much.
• 1:23:06
  Thank you.
• 1:23:07
  This was awesome.