Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 457: 332 GRE, lower GPA, 15 programs applied in R1. 645 GMAT, from Portugal.

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MBA Wire Taps 457: 332 GRE, lower GPA, 15 programs applied in R1. 645 GMAT, from Portugal. · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Hey, this is Brent Nagamine, Director of Admission at the University of Washington Foster School of Business, and you're listening to the Clear Admit MBA Admission Podcast. Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. And Graham. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, November 24, 2025. Looking for an MBA experience where you're truly seen, supported and inspired to grow at Vanderbilt Business. You'll discover a personalized learning environment that elevates your potential and turns ambition into action. Whether you're switching careers or accelerating your current path, the Vanderbilt MBA offers a customizable curriculum, exceptional outcomes, and a community committed to your success. Propel your future with a program invested in who you are and who you're becoming. Vanderbilt is waiving their $200 application fee for MBA Wiretaps listeners. To learn more about the Vanderbilt MBA program and to claim your application fee waiver, Visit Business Vanderbilt. Edu ClearAdmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going?
• 1:17
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 1:19
  Speaker A: So this week there's a lot to tackle. We're going to discuss. There's another class profile out for this year. This week is Columbia. So we'll get into that. We've got some real humans again and lots of news and notes. But what have you been seeing in terms of, you know, we're still probably still some interviews coming. I saw somebody posted to the wires, I think it was the live wire, like saying, are there any more invitations coming for. I think it was Stanford or, you know, people are really asking at this point. Right?
• 1:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's mid November, so that's when Stanford publicly states it'll stop releasing interview invites and they will release those folks that they're not inviting to interview. They'll get notified forthwith. I imagine that'll happen in the next week or so. We should probably look at Livewire data to see when that happened in the last couple of years and that would sort of determine that issue. But yeah, we're getting later in the season for interview invites for schools that trickle them out. But there'll still be some coming out of hass, no doubt out of. Yeah, maybe there's still some for Stanford and one or two other schools that do it that way. This upcoming week, we're actually going to hear from London Business School in ASA with their round one decision deadline. So we're getting closer and closer to the bulk of sort of final decisions starting to come out.
• 2:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. Exciting times. And I know this is in America, this is kind of an abbreviated week. Right. Because Thursday is Thanksgiving. So I would like in advance just wish everyone a safe, safe and happy Thanksgiving if you're celebrating. But for us, it's still kind of a busy week because you and I are going to get together tomorrow on November 25th to do an Ask Us Anything. Right. We're going to do that on live streaming on YouTube at noon Eastern. So that should be fun. And then, you know, we've got other events coming up, you know, the week after. So no rest for us despite the Thanksgiving break for some. We've got those Masters in Management events coming up on December 2nd and 3rd, and you can just go to our website, clearadmit.com events to find out more. But basically over the course of those two days, I'm going to sit down with a whole bunch of top business schools that are offering master's in management, which, as we know, are designed for people coming either straight out of college or maybe with one or two years of experience at most. So more of an early career option for those interested in the study of management. But yeah, so busy week, Alex, and I'm hoping that our regulars show up tomorrow for the the live stream because we've had some great questions these last couple of months when we've done these.
• 3:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, I'm looking forward to it. Yeah.
• 4:01
  Speaker A: Yeah. So other news and notes. We did an article on the website about AI and MBA programs. I did see a very funny cartoon this morning that, you know, someone was buying peas in the grocery store and it talked about how the peas had AI in them. You know, so it's like everything has AI now and so so do MBA programs. Right. But this article is a serious article where we kind of really pull back the veil on, like, which schools are doing what. And, you know, some schools have entire kind of programs devoted to the intersection of AI and business. Others have majors or concentrations or have introduced, you know, a number of courses. And, you know, I just wanted to read you a little note from that article. And I know you're a big AI person. You've been out in front on this from the beginning. But for our listeners, I think this is just really interesting to hear. And it's a study that the University of Pennsylvania predicted that 49% of workers may have half or more of their tasks exposed to LLMs. Columbia Business School, meanwhile, discovered that 76% of business owners are concerned about their own integration of AI. And more recently, Microsoft researchers compiled a list of the 40 jobs most exposed to AI, sparking debate around the impact this will have on the workforce. So in light of all that, you know, most business schools, a lot of the top ones we cover in this piece, we talk about Booth, Columbia, Wharton, Kellogg, Darden and mit. They have these AI focused offerings now. But really, I mean things are moving quickly and business schools are pretty fast to adapt in many regards. But we'll see how this all plays out.
• 5:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's absolutely fascinating times, but those folks that think that they're secure in their job really need to reevaluate that in the broader context of AI and so forth. I mean, I know this is slightly off topic, but. But I learned a really interesting hack the other day. Graham, you can go to ChatGPT, you put in your prompt whatever you're looking for. So my example prompt was running shoes for someone with a bad knee that runs coastal terrain. So it gives you the response. But I can then identify in the background what explicit searches and what websites ChatGPT went to to come up with that response. Ye, I just, I just think that's really, really, really clever stuff.
• 6:25
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I see it, you know, one of the things I love, you know, I ask it a lot of questions about business school and I'm just always kind of flattered how often it's using our own website to to figure. Figure some of these things out because we are, you know, we just have kind of a font of knowledge out there. Obviously we think our own bot is even better for other reasons.
• 6:44
  Speaker B: But my point is you can now with this hack that I. I've learned you can actually identify the actual searches that chat to uncover our website as part of those results.
• 6:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. And that's helpful stuff for us as we think about content. So yeah, these are really crazy times and I hope you found a pair of running shoes.
• 7:05
  Speaker B: Well, I was doing it as a test. I already have a pair.
• 7:09
  Speaker A: So in any event, so speaking of that, while we're off topic, you know, I had a really fantastic run this morning. I'm in Madrid this week because we're. I'm attending the clear admits a sponsor at the GMAC Europe conference. So I went out for a run this morning. There's a giant park its name and now is escaping me here in the center of Madrid. But yeah, really beautiful city and I don't know it well. So it's been kind of nice to be here.
• 7:29
  Speaker B: Nice.
• 7:30
  Speaker A: But let's veer back onto the regular stuff. We did a piece on the website about a couple of students at NYU Stern, both from the military as part of our Fridays from The Frontline series and just kind of fascinating stories. There's both a guy and a gal who are current students. One is a naval flight officer who's now at Stern, and the other was in the Marine Corps. And. Yeah, just kind of interesting stuff. And I know Stern has that sort of special, special program for veterans. So take a look at that if you're interested in either Stern or if you're a veteran. Good stuff there. And then we also ran out a piece that we'd done before, but we kind of revived on consulting stats. And this is sort of like where do you know, graduates go when, in terms of consulting jobs? Post mba, And I don't. I know that I've asked you this before, but I'm just wondering if you still remember by percentage. Can you think of any of the schools that have the most students going into consulting after they graduate from business school?
• 8:26
  Speaker B: Is it our sponsor?
• 8:28
  Speaker A: So Emory is one of them. We also have. Yeah. So Emory's number three, Tuck. Yeah. Tuck and Darden are the other two. So those are the top three. All three of those schools are above 40%.
• 8:40
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 8:41
  Speaker A: Now, that's the class of 24. We're still waiting on class of 25 stats. But if I ask you the same question by volume.
• 8:48
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 8:49
  Speaker A: What would you say? Because obviously there's differences. Right. Some schools are really big. So any. Any idea which schools are sending the most number of students into consulting?
• 8:56
  Speaker B: Well, I. You know, Harvard and. And Wharton would come to mind because of their size. Columbia, but probably Kellogg would be close to it.
• 9:05
  Speaker A: Interesting.
• 9:05
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 9:06
  Speaker A: So number one is Columbia. Big, big school because they have the J term and the regular. Number two is Booth.
• 9:14
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 9:15
  Speaker A: And by the way, Columbia sent 179 people, class 24, into consulting. Booth 148. Wharton is next at 141. And I don't have the rest of the numbers in front of me, but Harvard was actually a bit further down the list. And I think some of that's because there are a lot of students going into other fields, too. Right. So they're sending a lot into private equity. But so, yeah.
• 9:35
  Speaker B: Surprising that Booth trumps Kellogg.
• 9:37
  Speaker A: Yeah, very interesting.
• 9:38
  Speaker B: Most people think of Kellogg as the marquee consulting shop.
• 9:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, very interesting. And so one other tidbit is that, you know, all these numbers, when you looked at the class of 23 versus the class of 24, nearly every MBA program saw declines. There are only two that we sort of COVID regularly that did not. And that was Marshall at USC, which was just flat. And McDonough at Georgetown, which was up 1%. So basically all schools were down. And I'm going to be really curious to see, as the stats come out for the class of 25, how these consulting numbers hold up or whether they continue to fade.
• 10:12
  Speaker B: My bet, they fade.
• 10:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's exactly what I'm thinking. All right, so on to some other stuff. We did publish a couple of admissions tips that are very much aimed at those of you who are tuning in and considering Round two applications. One was about how you prepare your resume for business school apps, and the other was how do you select and then prepare your recommendation writers? And in both cases, we've got videos that accompany those. So if you don't like to read, you can always watch Alex and I talk about what you need to be doing for these critical steps in the application process.
• 10:44
  Speaker B: I would also stick your MBA resume into our chat bot and ask for critical feedback.
• 10:49
  Speaker A: Yes, great idea. You can upload a PDF into the Ask Clear Admit bot. And yeah, it gives great feedback and people use that obviously for interviewing as well. As we know, we've been encouraging people to drop their resumes in and ask, hey, I've got an interview at Darden or wherever and it'll give you questions and it's a lot of fun.
• 11:05
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 11:06
  Speaker A: So let's see real humans. We continue to connect with current students at a lot of these top programs. This week we talked with students at both Kellogg and Vanderbilt, and I'll just give you a couple of little quotes. So we caught up with MacKenzie. She is a first year at Kellogg right now, 23 years old and from Chicago originally. And she actually went out west to Loyola Marymount in LA for undergrad where she studied health and human science and also a minor in health and society. And she, no surprise, went to work at Pfizer doing strategy and consulting. She's actually in what seems like a kind of leadership program there because she's a strategy and consulting fellow at Pfizer. She's had a couple of years of work experience and now she's going off to Kellogg. And I know, actually she says this in the interview that she's going to return to Pfizer afterwards, but we asked her what is one part of the application process you would have skipped if you could and what helped you get through it? And she gave a really interesting response. She said, hot take, everything was a valuable experience, and while it may have been difficult and stressful, it was necessary as a part of the journey that informs my time at Kellogg. Now I would reframe this to say that the most valuable parts included school visits, coffee chats with both students and alumni, and creating brand points that highlighted aspects of myself that were authentic to who I am. The introspection of the MBA application allowed me to be intentional about the decisions I make now. And I would also say that finding community with other prospective students and applying helps underscore that you aren't alone and that there are thousands of people going through the same experience. And she then goes on to talk about how she was part of the MLT community, which is an organization that helps promote underrepresented folks who want to kind of get into business school and business careers. So I just thought that was really, very, very insightful. Comments from MacKenzie at Kellogg.
• 13:01
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, really good. And it's a great reflection on what the admissions process should be like.
• 13:07
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 13:08
  Speaker B: In terms of introspection, understanding and preparing you for an intentional MBA experience.
• 13:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. And then I'll just turn. We, you know, as I said, connected with a bunch of students at Vanderbilt at Owen. And you know, I'm going to give you one here we have Taylor, who's actually 35. So he's much older than Mackenzie over at Kellogg. And that is because he was in the military, the US Air Force, as something called a pararescueman. And I guess that was like a 13 year stint. He also served a little bit of time as a flight medic doing search and rescue. So he's this is, I mean, the kind of guy that like dives into the ocean to save people. I think if I understand correctly, he's from Riverside, California, went to Wesleyan University on the east coast and studied neuroscience and behavior as an undergrad. And we asked him, he gave very kind of direct answers. So he said, what's one thing you would absolutely do again as part of your application process? And he said, visit. Sitting in on a class and meeting students showed me this was the MBA experience I wanted. We said, what's one thing that you would change or do differently? He said, connect. Earlier, Owen students were more willing to talk and help than I expected. And then we said, what's one part you would have skipped if you could in terms of the application process? And he said, test prep. It is a grind. Remember? It doesn't define you. So he gave very short answers, but they were good, very good answers. I thought it was kind of fun.
• 14:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, very good.
• 14:37
  Speaker A: There was some other stuff in there that I thought was pretty interesting where we talk about, what are you bringing to the class? And he's like, well, I've been in situations where screwing up is sort of life and death. And so he's like, I think I'm able to be calm in business situations when making leadership decisions. So I thought that was interesting, too. Yeah.
• 14:55
  Speaker B: No. Very good.
• 14:56
  Speaker A: So let's get to talk about Columbia. They finally released their Class of 27 profile. And so I'll just give you the numbers. Be curious to get your take. So they enrolled 982 students in this class, and that's up from last year's 972. So they grew the class by like 10 students. Now, remember, this is a mix of their September start and their J term, which starts in January. So there's a smaller cohort that starts in January, but they lump them all together for these stats. Women make up 46% of the class, which is a little bit of a rise. It was 44% last year. International representation dipped from 46 to 41. So 5% drop there. GPA held steady, 3.6. And test scores ticked up a bit. The average GMAT on the 10th edition was a 734 compared to 732 last year. The Focus Edition GMAT, which they haven't published in the past, they gave us this year. And that's a 690, which, by the way, that's more like a 740. So that's a very strong GMAT focus average. And then GRE scores are averaging 163 on each section for a total of. What is that? 326. And then students come with roughly five years of work experience, which is very consistent with the prior class. And those are the kind of main stats. So I don't know. What do you take? Like, what's. What are your takeaways from this?
• 16:17
  Speaker B: I think these stats are very good.
• 16:19
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 16:20
  Speaker B: You know, you slide up to gender parity or female representation. That correlates with a slight drop off with international students because typically international students weigh a little bit more heavily for a male bias at many schools. The gmat, the GPA GMAT numbers look really good. The GRE number is decent. It's slightly lower, probably than the equivalent of 734. But overall, I think this. This is good. This is solid M7 data.
• 16:58
  Speaker A: I agree. You know, and I think, you know, Columbia's, I. I think they're on a nice trend in the sense that they open those new facilities, which are pretty stunning. I mean, and we're long, long overdue. I mean, they just had a real space crunch, and so they have this massive new facilities and they've grown the class a bit as a result, but they've maintained the quality. And yeah, so I think all good news out of Columbia. Yeah, so, yeah. So other stuff, you know, obviously if people want to reach out to us, as always, we want to remind you, you can write to infoeardmyth.com we love to get your mail or your Thanksgiving greetings or holiday greetings. So just use the subject line wiretaps and we'll write you back. Alex, anything else on your mind before we talk candidates this week?
• 17:40
  Speaker B: Let's kick on.
• 17:41
  Speaker A: All right, so this is wiretaps candidate number one. So our first candidate this week has a handful of schools, seven on the target list and those are Berkeley, Columbia, Duke, Harvard, mit, Wharton and Stanford. They've been working pre MBA in the clean tech sector and they actually mentioned that they studied environmental science at an Ivy League school and have been working in sustainability startups and impact investing since graduating. They've got five years of work experience. They did earn a 3.44 GPA in environmental science at that Ivy League school. They have a 332 on the GRE. They're located in Boston. They would love to stay there after business school. And I presume that's why they've got both Sloan and Harvard on the list. And you know, they do mention, I think you kind of prompted them to delve into, hey, what else? What else do you do? And they said, well, outside of work, I volunteer with a non profit to mentor LGBTQ entrepreneurs. They also work with another nonprofit that rates banks on their fossil fuel and clean energy lending practices. And they've worked at the farmer's market for five years running. Athletically, they've completed many local hiking challenges in New England, so certainly a full plate of outside activities. And they do mention that one of the reasons they want the MBA is they just feel like they need more financial education in order to do finance at a renewable energy company, move into corporate development, partner with startups, and maybe eventually kind of climate tech vc. So, you know, they study environmental science. So I understand where they're coming from there in terms of wanting the sort of business school toolkit. But what do you make of this candidacy, Alex?
• 19:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think overall this is a very, very strong candidate. The 344 GPA probably stands out as the weakest element. So, you know, any way they can mitigate that, I suppose would be good. It is from an IV school, environmental science and so forth. But the 322sorry.332 GRE is going to help them stand out in that regard. So, you know, ADCOM will look at the combination of those two to really feel comfortable that they're going to thrive in the academic environment. And I think that's going to be the case here. I love their goals, I love their experience, their outside of work activities. There's just a lot to like without going into a lot of detail here, Graham, their overall profile, I don't know what's your point of view on their gpa? Do you think this is an issue or do you think this is. Overall, this is just a very, very strong candidate. I imagine Sloan would certainly be, you know, a good target for them. And if. As long as they tackle the Sloan application process effectively, I think they should do well there. And maybe the same with Harvard.
• 20:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I like, given that they want to be in Boston, you can't go wrong with either of these two programs. And I do. I mean, I would add that like you say, I mean, Sloan is really, really good in finance. It's one of those schools that people don't always mention with regards to finance. You know, people are often like, oh, Wharton or, you know, Columbia or even Chicago. Booth. Right. But Sloan is very strong in finance and they're looking for a solid finance foundation. I also like the ecosystem in Boston with regards to life sciences and things that they're kind of interested in. So. And even, you know, climate, you know, all that stuff is. It's a good spot to be. So. I understand and I think, you know, you're right, like, a 3.44 is a couple ticks down from the average at most of these very top schools. But, you know, this person's an Ivy League grad, environmental science major. And so it's not like they went to an unknown school in a, you know, kind of majored in like, art history, like me. But. And also, like you said, the test score is really strong and they've got a really nice portfolio of outside activities. So my view is I feel like this candidate is going to be in very good shape. I like their, you know, unique work experience, interesting goals. They have a really clear kind of, you know, set of goals too, which is admirable. So I think they're going to be okay. I think they could get by with the 3.44, which, you know, I mean, gosh, not a bad GPA and to begin with. Right, right, right. So I want to thank them for, you know, sharing their profile. And I'm. We got Our fingers crossed, because I think this person, you know, they have some interesting and, you know, kind of. I don't know what the word is, but they're. Their goals are, you know, we. We want these kind of people going to business school.
• 22:19
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:20
  Speaker A: To go out there and do good. Right. So this is an interesting profile, and I think a lot of schools are going to want to have that. And.
• 22:25
  Speaker B: And they're battling the current sort of whatever from the US Administration. Right.
• 22:31
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:32
  Speaker B: Any which way. So good luck to them.
• 22:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. All right, so let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate has a whole bunch of schools on the target list. They actually applied to 15 schools they mentioned, and they applied to them all in round one. So they even have some results that they shared with us. But they applied to, like, Berkeley, Columbia, Cornell, Tuck, Duke, Georgetown, Harvard, esa, Michigan, mit, Stern, Wharton, Stanford, UCLA, and Yale. So a ton of schools they're looking to start next fall. They've been working in product management and post mba. They're thinking of either consulting or maybe tech. And so they list a bunch of consulting firms, although, interestingly, you know, they focused on Accenture, Booz Allen and Deloitte rather than, say, mbb. And then they also mentioned a number of tech companies. They have a 740 on the GMAT. Their GPA, however, is just a 3.15, which is, you know, lower than average at all these schools. They have five years of work experience and they want to land in either New York, California, or Texas. So I'm guessing they just want to live in a very populous state with tons of people. You then ask them like, you know, hey, when are you applying to all these programs? And they pointed out, as I said, they applied in round one, and they said they got interviews from all of them except for Harvard, Stanford, and Wharton. And they then went on to explain that their GPA dropped because they were homeless for a time period in college. And they explained that in the applications, and now they're just kind of awaiting all their decisions. And, you know, they, you know, explained that they had a mix of schools, and that's why, you know, 15 schools. I guess they're hoping someone can look past that. 3.15. But what do you make of this, Alex?
• 24:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, again, the elephant in the room here is the gpa. Obviously, it's lower than our first candidate, and we don't know quite as much about the overall profile of this candidate in terms of their work experience, but product management is typically A role that folks tend to seek post mba. So assuming that they've done well as a product manager and they can show that impact and that growth at work and so on and so forth, I think that aspect will be very good. Again, back to the 315GPA, they said they were homeless and that brought down the gpa. So they have obviously some context and story to tell around that particular issue that they'll use. Presumably they use the optional assay to address that and it will have also likely come up as part of the interview conversation. But you know, again, if they've mitigated that with the 740 GMAT, I mean, that's the, you know, one thing that they can absolutely do, right, to mitigate a lower GPA is have a really outstanding test score, which they have. So, you know, I presume with the strong test score and so on and so forth, they're showing that they've got the quant chops and so forth, so that should be fine. If they end up getting on the wait list at some of these schools, then, you know, maybe they've got to reconsider in terms of do they need to do some additional coursework or something else to sort of further mitigate that gpa. So maybe there's some potential for a bit of waitlist advice here if that happens. They didn't get invited for interview at Harvard, Stamford, Wharton, which might suggest that the rest of the M7 that they targeted, which, if I remember.
• 26:15
  Speaker A: MIT.
• 26:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, Sloan, is it? Yeah, Sloan and Columbia, you know, they potentially could end up being in the weightless bucket versus the admit bucket and then the next tier down into the admit bucket, etc. Etc. So they would want to factor that potential in. But overall, Graham, I think if they can mitigate this gpa, they've taken the right approach.
• 26:45
  Speaker A: Right.
• 26:46
  Speaker B: They've got reach schools, Harvard, Stamford, Wharton, Target schools and hopefully safety schools in that mix of 15, which must have been a real slog to get all those applications out in round one. So kudos for them for doing that and yeah, best of luck to them.
• 27:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's an interesting case. I mean, I, I will say, you know, there's some schools on the list here, you know, I was puzzling over, like, how did ESA get on the list for someone who wants to land in New York or California or Texas? Right. But, but either way, yeah, they, they cast a wide net and they had to because they have this low gpa. I agree with you. If they end up on the wait list, which is, you Know, certainly possible. They should probably go off and build an alternative transcript, you know, by taking some courses or business fundamentals that GMAC offers or MBA math, like you were saying. So yeah, they may need to take some steps, some further steps. What I said to you before we kind of started recording today was just that I, I don't know enough about this candidate. They didn't give us a lot when it came to like extracurriculars. Like we learned about their GPA issue and the homelessness, which is really tragic and I think, you know, should go a long way to kind of explaining what happened. But I just wanted to know, like, where are they from?
• 27:56
  Speaker B: Right.
• 27:56
  Speaker A: And what, you know, what do they do with their spare time? And I'm wondering, you know, honestly, if those things, if the rest of their file is super strong. I, you know, I would actually be, I would have been, I don't know, I'm a little puzzling over the no interview invitation at any of the top, top schools. And I guess you could say, oh, it's just the gpa. But I, you know, those schools look beyond that sometimes and at least might give an interview.
• 28:19
  Speaker B: Right.
• 28:19
  Speaker A: And so I wondered if there's something else or we just don't have enough information to really know. But you know, look, they got interview invitations at places like Columbia and Sloan and probably Berkeley because that's on the list too. So, so something's going right and you know, hopefully they're having positive interviews and they'll get into one of these and, and we'll go from there. But yeah, best of luck to them and I want to thank them for sharing really interesting case.
• 28:41
  Speaker B: Possibly they'll still hear from Stanford.
• 28:43
  Speaker A: I guess it's possible. Yes, that's right.
• 28:47
  Speaker B: It's not over till it's over.
• 28:48
  Speaker A: Yes. My point, that's, that's fair. Yeah. Anyway, I want to thank them for sharing their profile. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidates number three. So our final candidate this week is applying to just four schools and those schools are Columbia, Insead, London Business School and Yale. And they've been working for the last three years. They have three years of full time work experience in payments consulting. It's a very niche kind of tech sector job. But they're interested in pivoting into consulting after business school. So pure like strategy, strategy consulting. And they mentioned Carney, Bain, BCG and McKinsey as potential targets. This candidate is in Lisbon. I'm guessing that they're Portuguese. They would love to live in the U.S. canada, or potentially the Middle east. After business school they mentioned, and I should also point out that they have a Bachelor's in management and a Master's in finance, both earned at NOVA in Portugal, which is a really great kind of business and economics school just outside of Lisbon on the coast there. I know it well because it's where the GMAC conference was hosted last year and it's a school that's quite well regarded. So. And they mentioned in their Masters in Finance they had a 17 out of 20. A lot of the European schools use this kind of out of 20 system. So solid marks. They were the case club president and they I guess were also involved in the student union. They had also mentioned in their note that they're applying to, when it comes to Yale, it's to start in 26, like in the fall, but with Columbia they actually applied to the J term, which I guess or they're going to apply to the J term which wouldn't start until January of 27. So we'll get into that because I know you picked them out for a reason, but what do you make of this candidate?
• 30:38
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean again this, this candidate potentially has one aspect of their overall profile that sort of lets them down a little bit where everything else looks super, super interesting. I think, you know, business schools, they really, you know, top schools, they seeking out geographic diversity, etc. Etc. And Portugal and you know, being based in Lisbon would fit that and they have a strong academic record and so forth. So presumably their work experience also can show that impact and growth. It's a little bit shorter, three years, but nevertheless they could show a decent track record there that will be very, very good and again attractive to top MBA programs. So the question is can they overcome.
• 31:25
  Speaker A: The lower gmat, which I totally forgot to share, I don't think I mentioned that. A6, what is it, 645 on the GMAT?
• 31:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, 645, which isn't awful relative to, you know, candidates finds top tier business schools probably equates to about 690, 700.
• 31:41
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:44
  Speaker B: You know, the balance of the score might be important but you know, they have a strong academic record and I think we've done some analysis and so on and so forth. Or our understanding is actually schools like the GPA itself is super, super important. We always talk about the test score, etc. Etc. But schools really do, you know, respect the four year commitment or in this case it might even be longer because they have a master's degree and so forth. So overall I think this candidate is very strong, but has this little squiggle over their test score. So it'll be interesting to see how they do. I was a little bit curious about why they decided to apply Columbia J Term. And their response sort of is that they think that, that, you know, they may be a little bit more welcoming of their gpa, their GMAT score, which may or may not be the case. You know, I'm not sure it's a backdoor to Colombia, but nevertheless, maybe there's a bit of forgiveness there whilst everything else looks really strong. But I think I might encourage them to apply to at least one other M7 in the traditional round two.
• 33:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 33:12
  Speaker B: Rather than just leave all their eggs in the Yale basket. Which Yale is a fantastic program. But if they want to hedge their self Colombia by going J term, I would say fair enough. But pick one or two other M7, see if you fit there.
• 33:30
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 33:31
  Speaker B: And so forth. Especially if the US is one of their potential destinations.
• 33:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And one thing I didn't share is that in addition to being active as an undergrad when they were at Nova, they also do some stuff outside of work now. I mean, they're active at, at work. You know, they. What did they say? They have like, they're big into soccer or football and they co founded like a Sunday league with, with friends. They also played, which is fantastic. So they're an active individual. I could not agree more. I'm like, wow, they should throw an application into some additional and I would argue like M7 school in round two.
• 34:11
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 34:11
  Speaker A: And just see where the chips fall. I mean, the test score is low, but the GPA is high. They've got that master's. You know, they're, they aren't, you know, I'm assuming they went to school for at least, you know, four, if not five years to get that total undergrad plus masters and three years of experience. So they're, they're the right age to go to business school. They just may have a little less experience. But I, I like this candidate and it's very rare to see someone applying, particularly to US schools from Portugal.
• 34:38
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 34:38
  Speaker A: And the schools like that, as you say. So. Yeah. I feel like this person may be underestimating and I don't know that I would bother. I'm a little worried about J term and here's why. J term tends to be a crowd that is more experienced, not less, and that is not necessarily looking to pivot as much because they don't need an internship necessarily. Or they're, you know, they Certainly don't need the extent of, you know, kind of the, the pivot that a two full kind of two year program can provide. And so I don't know that they're a good fit for that. Even if. Yes, sometimes test scores could potentially lower because it's an older crowd and the older crowd doesn't test as well. But I don't. Yeah. So I, I almost would encourage them just apply regular and see, see where the chips fall. But yeah, I would throw in an additional school or two and you know, I guess one last thing is, you know, it'd be good to know where they, you know, like if they're, I find it interesting that they say they want to work in the U.S. canada or Middle east, but then they've got LBs and INSEAD on the list. And I'm thinking if you want to be in the US and Canada, like, you know, they might want to, I don't know, just like restructure this list a little bit. Yeah, obviously the Middle east, you know, INSEAD and LBs have a presence there with those campuses. So maybe that makes sense if that's a real target market for them. But if they, you know, if they want to be in the US or Canada, obviously the US schools are good to target.
• 35:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:57
  Speaker A: So I do want to thank them for, for sharing. I loved being on that campus last year for the GMAC conference. The Nova school in Portugal is really nice. I mean, it's like right on the beach, so not a bad, not a bad spot. But in any event, Alex. Yeah. Thanks so much for picking out these candidates. Lots of interesting things to debate and I guess we'll catch up very soon. Hopefully we'll see everyone on the live stream tomorrow and then obviously we'll be back next week with another episode of the show.
• 36:21
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe everyone. Take care.
• 36:30
  Speaker A: Of sam.