Latest / Momentum Sessions / Build Leaders Beyond Your Captains | J.P. Nerbun

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Build Leaders Beyond Your Captains | J.P. Nerbun · Momentum Sessions

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: So much of our work as leaders, it's not leading a team.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the big speeches.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's about the interpersonal relationships.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: But we get the whole backwards.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: We usually make someone cap, then we say, All right, now lead the team.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Give the speech, give the talk, start challenging everyone.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're talking about how coaches can develop leaders who actually help carry the culture.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: We are joined by JP Newbern, founder of TOC Culture, author of the Culture System, and author of the brand new book, The Culture Captain.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: JP, welcome.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: You've said great teams are built by internal leadership and that coaches alone just can't carry, you know, a great culture.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: What made you realize that athlete leadership was the missing piece?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the last 10 years, Matt, I've in my work coaching coaches, you know, we would implement all these systems for culture, and they absolutely get results, and we were producing good results.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: But then you had these seasons that just seem to be almost outliers, like they're just incredible team culture.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or you had these other opportunities where other seasons where it's like we had done all the things we had followed the playbook, the blueprint, and super challenges, you know, it's toxic culture.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: And just the common factor was always just internal leadership.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: A couple players in the locker room just absolutely carried that culture, or a couple players in the locker room just absolutely tore it apart.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so my first book, Culturism, lays out, you know, how to build culture.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And this is really a book for the people within that team, that organization, that are so critical to it going well.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: What's the difference between having captains and actually having athlete leaders?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Captains or leadership group.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've just seen coaches in my work, they stress about how do I get the right people.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I you absolutely have to get the right people, probably in those leadership positions.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: But they'll be stressed around, well, if this person gets it, I'm like, well, I wouldn't be as worried about that person getting captaincy if you vote for it or selected for it or you're part of your leadership group.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I would be less worried about them getting that.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be if if if you're that worried about them getting the role, I'd be a heck of a lot more concerned about just the fact that person's in your team.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're an influencer and you feel like they wield poor, you know, bad influence within the team, then I would do everything I could to engage them to turn that influence to good.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the difference between captain and a leader, I think, you know, leaders and a good leader, they're going to use their influence for good within the team.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you have four levels in the culture captain.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: You got the framework kind of listed right there on the cover.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's know yourself, lead yourself, lead others, and lead the team.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to dig into each one of those in just a second, but how did you develop this framework and why does that progression matter so much?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: I had been working on a book for leaders for a long time and had an outline for over five years, but I didn't understand the structure of the framework that would make it accessible to people.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Typically, I was trying to follow the culture system framework, which was, you know, philosophy, establish support, and enforce.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: But no matter how I looked at it and looked at the research that I was doing around the qualities of great leaders and the things that they did consistently over time, it just didn't fit.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Two years ago, I had started working more so with leaders coaching leaders within the team of some teams that I worked with.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: One of those, the first being actually USA Women's Field Hockey heading into 2024 Olympics.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I started coaching their leadership group.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Then I started coaching some other elite athletes in Ireland, US, Canada, um, Division I type athlete, you know, uh pro athlete, future hall of famer, you know, that range, and a couple high school level athletes.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started having all these experiences, and then I started to take a look at the things that we were working on that they needed to work on, and they just kind of fell into these four categories.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think people talk a lot about lead yourself, lead by example.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: But time and time again, I recognized that athletes didn't know how to do that well in a way that was authentic if they didn't have a general sense of who they were.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you look at the great lead leaders and lead athletes, they have a sense of who they are, what's important to them.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Some like to express that in a mission or a vision or a purpose or their values, right?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's different words for it, there's different aspects that you know you kind of cover within level one, but one or two of those tend to be really dominant for them, whether it's purpose or vision or identity or values, those tend to be strong.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they have awareness that links that so to leading yourself well.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, and then it's then we all know this as like leaders, like so much of our work as leaders, it's not leading a team.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the big speeches, like even a good effective coach, it's about how do you the interpersonal relationships.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, but we get the whole backwards.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think we usually make someone cap, then we say, All right, now lead the team.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like like give the speech, give the talk, start challenging everyone.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, let's flip it, let's let's go back to the very, very beginning here.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really powerful.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you've just mentioned that, but I noticed that reading through the book that it, you know, you say don't just jump straight to captains and naming captains and speeches and accountability.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of starts with that self-awareness.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, why though, if we dig a little bit deeper, why is that really the the main, the first starting point when you're starting to develop athlete leaders?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when you kind of know who you are, you'll know what to do a lot of times, you know, and and and so often I think there's there's you know authenticity, you know, lead from a place of authenticity, you know, is is stressed in leadership.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be authentic as a leader.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: What does that even mean if I don't actually understand what's important to me?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it all comes from that that place is the foundation.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think about where this goes wrong as a coach, you know, is having some general sense of my values or an understanding of why I coach or an athlete of like, why do why do I love this game so much?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and what about it do I love?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And how can I, how also can I make it more than just myself, right?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like make it about a bit of a higher purpose or shared purpose.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So having that becomes foundational for everything else.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the the first domino, you know, like how can I be selfless?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: How you know, why would I take responsibility?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Why would I compete like crazy?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why would I work so hard if I don't understand the motivations behind that?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, and those are some of the things that you see when it comes to leading yourself well as player, they take responsibility, they compete like crazy, they have incredible effort, you know, they have the mental fitness to manage their emotions, their selfless, right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: These are the qualities of leading yourself well.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: But the motivation and drive and the energy behind them, they all come from that sense of self.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a couple simple good questions that a coach can ask athletes to help them start knowing themselves better if we're still on this kind of know yourself level of the framework?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, here's here's the question, but it's more about how you ask the question.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had a I had a college soccer coach this, um they were runners up in the national championship.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: He did this last year on their team retreat.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: They got together and the athletes were asking each other this question of what's most important to you about playing for this team?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then whatever the response was, they would say, Okay, I hear it's that this.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: What's most important to you about that?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Then the athlete would answer.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then they would say, Okay, what's most important to you about that?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and so you keep pulling back and you go at least three times with that question, but sometimes more.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, what's most important to you?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: What's like, well, I want to, I'm a competitor, I like to win.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what's most important to you about being a competitor and winning?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and now you start to go into, well, I mean, like, I've always kind of gotten after it.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love, I love it.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like no matter what what I'm playing, I love to get better at that, right?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you start to pull back the layers.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we do this so much around knowing yourself and leadership philosophy.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of what I call peel the onion.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's asking one question multiple times to kind of go for depth.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: So no more surface answers.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Get in, really get to the depth.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then if we move to lead yourself, what does lead yourself look like though, day-to-day for an average high school athlete?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of touched on those qualities of responsibility, authenticity, effort, competing with, not against, mental fitness, being able to weather storms, being able to engage the challenge response and selflessness.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: The common threat amongst all these things around leading yourself well is that it's about personal growth.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're never you've never arrived.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: We we all know on this call, like we've never arrived.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I sure as heck haven't.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And leading yourself isn't necessarily about demonstrating this exceptional 10 out of 10 behavior.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think any of us um are at 10 out of 10 when we rate ourselves at 10 out of 10.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's the fact that we continuously are working on those things.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the most impactful thing, you know, is our ability to be vulnerable about wherever we're falling short, to take responsibility, like to be aware of where we're falling short, take responsibility, and then to take by taking action, not just putting our hands up, not just accepting that we fell short, but then also to take new actions to improve ourselves.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's at the core of what it means to lead yourself well.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then in terms of lead others, I hear a lot of coaches saying, I want athletes to hold each other accountable, but most athletes maybe have not even been taught how to do something like that.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: How do you teach athletes effectively to lead their peers?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't we don't really teach.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the book teaches, there's videos and examples that we try to teach, but we try to coach.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what we understand is that everyone has obstacles and barriers to all these things.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I can teach you all the things you can do to connect with your teammates, you know, and onboarding and you know, making small talk to checking in on how they're doing.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can teach you, I can give you a list of all these actions you could take.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: But what I'm really interested in is like what gets in the way of you doing that.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because most of us know what to do in that.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Most of us know, yeah, that behavior is below the line.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's unacceptable what my teammates are doing.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're not working hard.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, we know that.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I can give you the script, but we haven't uncovered what's the block, right?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, beliefs that get in the way, let's just say connect, which is one of the lead others thing, like building connection.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: I tell the story in the book of Joey Vano, and Vano was a great baseball player, amazing baseball player for years, but around 2008, 2009, he started to realize that he was just all about himself, all about his performance.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, well, this is who I am.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm a quiet, introverted guy.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: But he recognized that if he wanted to really be an effective teammate, help his team win, and also be healthy himself.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: He was struggling with mental health at the time, he needed to build more relationships.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, what did he do?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: He went and took an improv class and he started studying Spanish.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: He could talk to his Spanish-speaking teammates.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So he starts learning Spanish, right?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then he becomes one of the most biggest characters in baseball, you know, like this real big personality.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's awareness of like a belief of like, oh, this is who I am, or you know, I'm just a quiet type of guy, or people don't like who am I?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm only a freshman, or I'm not the best player.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's all these little beliefs that keep people from doing those things.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you go challenging conversation.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we give a very simple script for helping athletes to have that curious, challenging conversation.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: But when I'm coaching an athlete on how to challenge their teammate, I'm not giving them the script and then saying, off you go.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying, before we even get to the script, let's talk about what keeps you, what's getting in the way, what belief is getting in the way of you challenging your teammate?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's unpacking those beliefs, holding them up for them, and then getting them to go, yeah, that's probably not that fear is a little bit, you know, not real, you know, or doesn't have a lot of evidence behind that, you know.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like in fact, my teammates want me to challenge them, they'll appreciate that.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's what a good teammate does, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not as scary or risky as it does seem, right?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's trying to take some of the of those beliefs that would actually prevent them from having the hard conversation.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you've got that, that's like, okay, now I feel like a bit of energy.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can can kind of give them tools to then go have the hard conversation.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now they've got that extra level of motivation energy around being able to do that because you haven't just focused on the tool, but you've focused on the person and the beliefs, because our beliefs oftentimes drive our behaviors.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're talking with an athlete around their beliefs, how often do you feel like that check-in should happen?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: As a coach within a team, I would say when you're having conversations, stay curious, hold your judgments and assessments back as long as you possibly can.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that, let's say just Matt, like, let's let's say you're a leader on the team, and I feel like you're not stepping up and leading in a way where you're not setting the tone, right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're not setting the tone, or you know, a couple people are coming in late and you're not reminding your teammates, you're not holding them accountable.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe it's there's gossip in the locker room, you're not shutting it down, you know?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, rather than just going, hey, this is the job of a leader, you need to do X, Y, and Z.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, hey, Matt, like what's I'm noticing these things.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: What are you seeing?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's going on for you?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: And okay, so you're seeing these people talk bad about teammates or coaches.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: How do you want, like, how would you want to respond to that?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what keeps you from doing that, though?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: What gets in the way?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just asking a lot of questions to help understand their perspective.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm holding back that advice giving.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Advice giving is mentorship.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Coaching comes from listening, asking questions, and reflecting back what we hear.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's empowering.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you've talked a lot about in the past around calling people up, not calling them out.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how can athlete leaders challenge those teammates without creating drama or you know, damaging trust?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Build a relationship, share observations, stay curious.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about the curious challenge, something that we I just kind of came across as consistently back in the research, and then on the stuff that we would do was just this idea of like recognizing that a challenge, giving feedback is not a one-way system.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't give Matt the feedback and say, good luck now.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's up to you to deal with that.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, feedback is actually a conversation, it's a two-way system.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Matt, I'm seeing this.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think of that?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about it, right?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it can be a little bit more uh sometimes we might add a level of like pre-work, like, hey Matt, like I'm having this conversation because I really care about you and you really matter to the team a lot.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm seeing that the last few practices you've been late.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on for you?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know that's not how you want to be.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: It can be sometimes more direct, right?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: It can be just straight to the point.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Matt, your effort attitude right now, it's just not what we need right now.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: We need more from you.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: We need you to be our energy guy.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: But in all those things, I'm reaffirming the individual, their value, how they matter to the team, and I'm calling them up to the standard that I'm saying, hey, I know you're capable of more.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: We need more from you.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're counting on you.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's instilling belief.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's opportunities, like I said, where you're gonna have a conversation around it.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um other times you just gotta be direct and share it, challenge them in that way.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: And in terms of the fourth part of the framework, lead the team.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: What is the difference between having a few strong individual leaders and actually having a team that truly owns the culture together?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Shared leadership.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like leadership is not meant to be held on to, it's meant to be shared.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in most team systems that I work, you know, lacrosse would be up 30 plus, basketball, you know, 12 to 16, soccer teams, 20 plus, right?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, foot Gaelic football teams and hurling teams here in Ireland, 30 plus, you know, I mean, just you have large, large teams, and and so trying to decentralize leadership through a leadership group and units is one way, but also just using a lot of groups and team meetings to um make sure that everyone feels like they have a voice within the group.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: But like so much of like what they uh like a leadership group has to do is make sure that everyone doesn't just feel valued, but they feel like they matter.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: They gotta feel like they matter, like they've mattered to the mission.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Valued as you belong.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, we like having you here.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Mattering is like you're helping us, you're helping us achieve what we're trying to achieve.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's a that's a huge piece of the leadership group.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd say in today's generation, coaches are very limited in how they can help people to feel like they matter within a team.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: The number one you way that you make an athlete feel as a coach feel like they matter, is you give them playing time.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's it.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, you can have connection and you can invest in them and you can keep coaching them, and that's gonna help them feel valued.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and if you can connect that to the team team of the mission um uh the team's mission, and you can celebrate even in a win or a loss or like a win, like, hey, you know, Matt, you didn't play today, but like you know, what you did, you pushed us to be better.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, you can do that, but nothing says you matter like a teammate saying, Man, thanks so much for pushing me today in practice, like to help me, or the way you the way you were playing the scout team.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like that goes a long way.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And hey, you know, the the guy in the reserve on the on the bench who starts to disconnect late in the season because he's not playing.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's Matt, you're going, Matt, like I know you're not playing right now, but we need you here, we need you locked in in practice.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you don't, we're gonna struggle tomorrow night, you know.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's and it is that individual challenge that is also telling people that they matter.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: In my talks with players, in my research for for around leadership, and one of the biggest indicators that they didn't matter was people stopped challenging them.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: They stopped coaching them.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: They're just like, Well, I can do whatever I want, nobody's gonna say anything to me.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what is like maybe a really simple system a high school coach could create to help leadership become more than just a title would be to invest in getting a leadership group in place and to get really clear on real responsibilities of leading units to serve them, to support them, to connect with them, to do small little behaviors of servant leadership, to have routine uh ways to individually check in on those people within their units, and then to do things to help keep the group connected.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then would be to routinely have conversations with that those leaders where you are coaching them, not telling them, but you're coaching them on hey, what are we seeing?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, what options do we have?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: What choices that what are things we can do?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that would be like a moral.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Simple way is just to start to empower them through that.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: All right, let's get to a few um questions that have already been asked inside the community.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I see a couple in the chat, and if someone wants to raise their hand and hop on with us, they can do that as well.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: But Tyler was asking, how do you hold captains accountable when they don't follow through on standards while still giving them growth opportunities?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great question.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: The coach was struggling with, okay, I don't know if it certainly knows we have enough clarity.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's some like vague things that we initially got to, which was like be respectful or things like that.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I need clarity.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Well, what's important to you about clarity?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the coach said, I need clarity so they know the standard, and they know this, they break the standard, they know like you know, like they're afraid to break it because they know what like what's what we'll do, you know.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And my my thought was the standard doesn't get clear with some team meeting.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do I believe in co-corean standards?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, but the standard really only becomes clear and becomes a standard when we don't meet the standard and how we respond to it.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so let's say for this instance, uh the player was late for arrival, flight cancellations happened, they were supposed to be there, you know, 24 hours in advance, and they end up showing up late for the first team meeting.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this was a great example of like, well, what are the natural consequences?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: The natural consequences are you're not as connected to the rest of the team, the natural consequences are you didn't get to contribute to the the team meeting that we were have, and the natural consequences are that the team doesn't feel uh like feels like this might be acceptable in the future.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, well, what if we just asked the athlete in that situation what do you think the consequences are of you being late?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Good excused or not excused, right?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Good reason or not.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then from there the athlete comes to those conclusions and the coach can fill in the gaps there on where they miss it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, what can you do to make it right?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and then this coach ends up going there and has that conversation.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: This athlete says, Well, I can make an effort to connect and have a conversation with all the new freshmen or transfers.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: What else could you say to the team?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I could, you know, I could sit with the team there and and and you know, have a chat and apologize.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, one thing I like is a little bit of makeup work, you know.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, you're you're gonna miss the team meeting, okay?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to this podcast on standards or behaviors or leadership, and then share with the team, hey, not just I'm sorry, but like, hey, coach sent me this.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is a really cool thing.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'll send it to you all you, but this is what I took away from this podcast, right?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just this act of contrition almost to say, hey, you know, I screwed up or hey, I missed it, and like I want to make it right.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it goes back to that leadership question of like, well, what do you do when they're not meeting the standards?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is you work with them to help take responsibility for not meeting the standards.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And what we want to do is we want to have accountability that's discipline focused, punishment focused, and that's not requiring them to take responsibility.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Their responsibility is, you know, 100 push-ups, they do the 100 push-ups.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: They're taking responsibility is, you know, paying the fine, because at College Division I now they they can pay fines.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, this athlete's on 10 times more money than the girl on the bottom of the roster, right?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you like, well, what are you gonna do now?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like so it's it just becomes messy.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, like taking responsibility isn't paying the fine, it's not doing the punishment.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Taking responsibility is saying, here's what I can do to make this right, to build rebuild trust.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: So this is actually where leadership development happens.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't happen in the classroom, it doesn't even happen in the coaching session.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: It happens when they fall short of the standard, and we come alongside them and say, Hey, what are the effects of this?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: How what has been the impact of this?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna do to make it right?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then Charlie asked a ton of really good questions.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Charlie, hopefully we covered a lot of them already and some overlap.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: But um, one thing that stands out, you talked about a leadership group earlier, JP.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: How should a coach decide who belongs in the leadership group?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And should leadership development focus only on captains or the whole team?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I'm a big fan.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't mean I don't not support other ways of doing this.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: I like in a lot of setups, there's a captain, a co-captain, but the leadership group is made up of a few other individuals, typically on a one to four, one to five ratio.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I like to get a team together in an ideal scenario and say, hey, what do we need from our leadership, player leadership this year?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: What do we want from this leadership group?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they can start to build out that job description, create a job description.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you add a few responsibilities, weekly meetings, leading units, you add taking this course, right?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: A leadership course or reading a book, whatever it be, um, as well as all the things we'd want, which was be connecting with the teammates, challenging and supporting and challenging teammates, all those types of things, and leading by example.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: But you create this job description.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: You say, okay, based upon that, who would like to be on the leadership group this year?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Ten people put their hands up, say, okay, we're picking four.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just ask your team, who are your top four?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Take those, and you know, I like to wait him and get in, I get pretty technical with it.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: We have a leadership course on that, but like, you know, a first place vote isn't the same as a fourth place, and we wait them and stuff like that.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, at the end of the day, you're you're empowering the players to give a voice, and then you as a coach will make the final decision.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I would lean a lot towards what the players share.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's that's kind of how it's selected.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Then you have your captain, co-captain in there, and yeah, the players feel like they've been a part of that process.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of the book, if coaches are working, want to work through this with their team, what is the most effective way to use this within your team?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's three ways you can do it.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: One is, I mean, you get for free a guide that takes you through each of the levels.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I recommend don't go from one to 24.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Go through like of all the different things within each level.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's six qualities or focuses in each of the levels.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Pick something from level, like read the book, and you can go through discussions, but then like double down on like level one, pick one thing, level two, pick one thing, level three, and touch on each of those, right?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's not really not a step by step by step process.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's done that for the reader's sake.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you could go to the book in the field guide.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: The field guide also has a 24-point leadership self-assessment that they can do online and they get a PDF report for free on where they're strong, where they're weak, and where they could, you know, some suggestions for improvement.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's that would be one way.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: The second way, uh, we have an athlete community for your athletes to come in there and take an online course.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's supplemented with a lot of videos of like a Tom Brady talking or Courtney Dewater or you know, just different athletes talking about these concepts, whether it's on podcasts or interviews.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that that takes them through it.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: It also has videos of myself coaching athletes or athletes coaching athletes through the framework.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: So they're able to understand and visualize and see the coaching activities.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we we do do some personalized special cohorts for um like certain teams that want to have a facilitator come in.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm in the process of training 12 mentors right now to help facilitate that.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if Matt, you know, wanted to have you have a you have a basketball team, a high school basketball team, and you wanted to have four sessions, um, you know, to have somebody externally facilitate that for you virtually and support you in that, they could do that as well.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: You go to the culturecaptain.net, that'll have the stuff for the book, links to the book, links to the guide, and also the TOC athlete and uh information on our cohorts.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: So as we wrap up here, last question for the coach who really wants athletes to own the culture.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: What's the biggest mindset shift they need to make?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what's maybe the first step they should take when they walk back into their program?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think with a mindset shift, I would like to see that the experience is the learning.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's where our development happens.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: All of you have been on webinars, you've been on courses on leadership.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't get to be a better leader through that.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: You got tools and things that helped you to then go be a better leader.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the mindset shift.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's remember is that it's the experience is the learning opportunity.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Secondly, after that, um, what's one action you should take?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I don't know.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Read the book, share it with your athletes.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it's just start asking better questions of your athletes, you know, really, you know, asking them that hey, what's what's the hardest part right now for you being you know the team, or what's the biggest challenge you face in being a leader?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then ask again.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, that's great.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, what's the hardest part about that?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and just pull back layers, pull back layers.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: I really I think that's the biggest thing I took away from this call was ask a lot of questions, keep digging, and be curious.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um, JP, thank you so much for your time.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Charlie loved the session.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Pam says thanks, great session.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for your wisdom sharing it.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Congrats with the book.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Tyler says awesome stuff.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: JP again, thank you so much for your time today.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Matt.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate the opportunity to share with your community.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, it's Matt.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: This conversation was originally recorded inside of Momentum Sessions, a free community for coaches who want to build stronger culture, better leaders, and more connected teams.
• 32:45
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• 32:58
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• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's Momentum Teams.com slash sessions.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you inside.