Latest / The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast / Episode 245. Chillventa 2024: Quieter Heat Pumps and More New Innovations from Copeland with Enrico Fraccari

Transcript

Episode 245. Chillventa 2024: Quieter Heat Pumps and More New Innovations from Copeland with Enrico Fraccari · The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast

• 0:00
  Trevor: Diving into some great topics that I love talking about. And this one's an event called Chillventa. I've talked about it on the podcast many times before. And I'm with some of my good friends from Copeland, where we're going to be diving into some of their new technologies that they're, they're launching at Chillventa that I'm super excited about some of their industrial stuff, some of their, uh, residential stuff on the natural refrigerant side.
• 0:01
  And, you know, I'm all about that stuff, how we can learn about new technology, how we can advance, in the industry, which I'm really excited about. Enrico, how you doing? We met back at, as you said, at AHR and, uh, super excited to chat with you today because I love going to Chelventa because it is focused on, the newest and latest products that are involved around the world. So I'd love to get a little bit about, learn a little bit about you Enrico and, uh, dive into some of these cool technologies.
• 0:02
  Enrico: Yeah, I'm excited to, to go to Chillventa. So, uh, I've been working for a couple of now. , long time, and I'm now responsible for product management for residential application, uh, in Europe and also globally.
• 0:03
  Trevor: But the thing is you put in the work, you know what I mean? It didn't happen overnight, 2007 as well. So you put the work in and this is what I talked about. A lot of people on the, uh, the podcast technicians or, , contractors or even end users is that you got to put the work in.
• 0:04
  And you did and now you're the global Uh leader for a massive company across the world that is a well known brand to our industry. Yeah, so congratulations
• 0:05
  Enrico: Thank you very much. And it's a it's a honor and I would say, you know, I mean my specialty is um It pumps and a dry to get them. So that's what I'm, really excited about And that's what I put my heart into for the past years and some of the product you will also see there at Chillventa.
• 0:06
  So that's, that's why I'm going to be there and get in touch with me if you want. So it's going to be a great show, I'm sure.
• 0:07
  Trevor: Yeah. So a lot of people don't know that heat pumps are nothing new to the industry. Like back in the seventies and even eighties, heat pumps were Were something that were talked about and developed, you know, big talk today about heat pumps, right?
• 0:08
  Do you want to talk? Cause you've been in the industry, like with Koblenz in 2007 in the industry from the early two thousands, heat pumps was around at that time. Do you want to talk a little bit about that evolution that you've seen for heat pumps? Cause you're an expert at it now, you know, cause you spent so many decades doing it.
• 0:09
  But you want to fill that in a little bit for the people listening?
• 0:10
  Enrico: Oh, well, yeah, funny thing is that, uh, uh you're right. Only since few years when I mentioned to my friends and family what I'm actually working on, they kind of understand. In the past it was, it what? But yeah, no, I mean, it is absolutely not new.
• 0:11
  I mean, especially Europe. You look back in the eighties, uh, was five years old there, but so, uh, I didn't, I didn't know about it, but by that time I can tell you that, but yeah, no, it's been around for a long time. It's been, Probably you're right, like in the 2000, 2005 time, when the technology started to came out, uh, as not any more niche, but start to become a little bit more mainstream. And, uh, in the past couple of years, I mean, even on the radio, you're, you're, you're advertising for it pumps and, and so, which is great. I think it's a great technology for the future and it's going to help us a lot for the decarbonization on electrification and everything. So for me, it's, it's great that it's becoming like that.
• 0:12
  So it's nothing new, but, uh, it's, uh, it's really exciting to see that it's moving really in the right direction. And, um, it's really helpful. I honestly believe it's going to help us a lot in the future.
• 0:13
  Trevor: Yeah. And I think so too. I think I like what you really said though, that is becoming like a household name because here in Canada, um, I'm from the East coast of Canada and over the last five or six years, That's all that is talked about there.
• 0:14
  Like I know a lot of contractors that have been installing tons of different heat pumps because there's incentives and stuff, but going away from the oil burners that were out there, going away from the different propane stuff, getting it, um, that are way more efficient. And as we continue to evolve, we're seeing bigger COPs and coefficient of performance of these, uh, Let's talk about, uh, uh, some of the new stuff that you have for your heat pump, uh, product lines and products.
• 0:15
  Enrico: Yeah, sure. Um, I'm old enough in this job to have seen a little bit of evolution there. I mean, it pump has always been about efficiency, right?
• 0:16
  , Almost everything else. Uh, and it's extremely important. That's one of the key feature of this technology is efficiency, efficiency, and efficiency. I mean, it's, uh, it's the driver of the, uh, of this technology. But, um, since few years, uh, and because, probably because the heat pump has become more widely adopted, , people start, , switching, let's say, from, uh, you have a faucet fuel, uh, you have a boiler at home.
• 0:17
  Uh, you switch to a new company, you're super happy, you spend less money a month in, uh, you're eating. The bill goes down, actually, the bill goes down, uh, but, uh, there is start to be some things because the technology is not exactly as important. A, a pump is kind of a, an air conditioner, right? And the problem of air conditioning, you have a, you have compressor inside, you have fans, so they become a little bit louder.
• 0:18
  And that's exactly what has happened, is happening right now in, uh, in Europe. Uh, people are adopting a new fancy, exciting technology, but they find out that there are some drawbacks in the technology. So, as a supplier to the industry and, uh, manufacturer of it, but we, we, we recognize there was something more than an efficiency that we need to bring down the table.
• 0:19
  And that was sound. Uh, sound is becoming really extremely important. And I probably was talking with some customer like seven years ago, and they were starting to say, you know, we have some complaint about sound. Can you do something about your compressor? Can you do something about your electronics? I mean, I, I honestly, if I look back at what I was taking that exact moment, I said, nah, I don't think it's possible.
• 0:20
  Yeah. I reducing the sound of compressor, reducing the sound of, uh, It's very tough. Uh, so basically, , we probably started like five years ago to really look into that and look machine our head into that. And can we do that? And what can we do? And it took us a while. That they don't happen overnight, so we need to put a lot of effort into it. But this is really what we have been doing the past couple of years and what we presented to different, uh, customer to different, I mean, we really came up with the, what we call low sound solution. And this is, this is a breakthrough.
• 0:21
  Now sound is not an easy subject. So if I say we can reach minus 10 dB versus the previous generation, I mean, I know because I've been feeling around sound a lot, you know, because you're, you're also an expert, but if I say 10 dB, that means nothing to everybody. It's literally huge. And, it's difficult to explain in words, how much standard B can make of a difference on, on a system. It's literally from probably not sleeping at night, sitting next to an IPAM or not even hearing it.
• 0:22
  So that's what we, what I'm really excited about and what we are being really excited to talk with customer and discuss with customer. And that's really what it's, we brought to the industry that it's a different level of, uh, of sound perception in the
• 0:23
  Trevor: market. I think that's huge too, because people, some, sometimes they don't remember back what it was to what it is now.
• 0:24
  Right. Cause you said you just did say minus 10 DB in the last five years. But if we go back to, to compressors back in the 1980s and the 90s that were being developed and, uh, as the technology evolved, like, They were a lot louder even then. So I, I'd love to see the numbers of then to now and over the years, because I've seen the, uh, uh, the revisions and updates from, from all the different manufacturers, this is what we're all, we're all striving for to make better products, more efficient products and things that help the customer out because we know more and more, uh, towns, cities, or we're building closer together.
• 0:25
  It's not like you're on a side of a house and then you won't hear it because you got no windows there. Well, your neighbor might have a window on the other side that I was right beside it and have to hear that all night. Cause I, I have an old, uh, a keep right here, 30 years old. So mine, but it works. You know what I mean?
• 0:26
  Every time it starts up in the middle of the night, I hear it. Don't worry. I hear it. And so this is the difference on newer technologies where. You won't hear it. I'd love to dive into a little bit more of the technical stuff. So 10 DB is huge. That's dropped down. But what are the options for like maybe the refrigerants, you know, because this is another big thing here in North America in the U.
• 0:27
  S. right now. And the snap rules coming out with, you know, you've got to have low GWP revision versus the four tens versus all these other ones that are going to be gone in a couple of months here in, uh, the U S Canada, the regulations haven't changed, but the F gas regulations have also already changed.
• 0:28
  And, uh, and I know there, there's lots of talk about, uh, what options do, do we even have with this low sound heat pump? What are the options for these compressors?
• 0:29
  Enrico: It's an extremely easy answer for me to give because there's not many options out there. As you mentioned, FGAS regulation, it's quite straightforward, right?
• 0:30
  It just tells you, you have to reduce your GWP. You have to go below 150 or even towards zero. That's the target. So, uh, what as an industry, um, we decided is that there's basically one main refrigerant for the future, at least for the residential heating systems are, is propane. It's naturally refrigerant.
• 0:31
  It's if I'm not mistaken, three, the value is three, the GWP. Yeah. So, and it's very good properties. , there's a flammability aspect that's true, but I mean, nothing that they cannot be handled with the proper, uh, system design. So, , That's the answer for, for at least for, for the heating system and then in the future is going to be propane and so natural refrigerant, very good properties, air efficiency, high water temperature, extremely important when you also, it's cold outside, you want, it's cold outside, you want to have a good cozy house, so that's how, so the propane helps, uh, our compressor technologies to bring that to, to our user, our, Contractors.
• 0:32
  Oh, that, that's, that's great. Easy answer by took a while to get there.
• 0:33
  Trevor: Yeah, no. And the thing is, is too, is this is not new. Like propane to a refrigeration system and even a eight facts, it's not new that I know over 10 years ago, I was seeing propane, uh, 15 years ago, propane in smaller systems and industrial in the eighties, they were using propane and refrigeration system, you know, so it's not that it's new, it's new to us and maybe this market, and there is going to be some training that needs to be done on the safety of it.
• 0:34
  The biggest thing though, it's a great refrigerant. It is, it is a great refrigerant. And as we continue along, uh, this journey of, of refrigeration and refrigerant, I think it's going to be, , a really good solution. And, and you're ahead of the curve too, because that's the biggest thing, these regulations coming down with the GWP.
• 0:35
  It's going to be something different down the road again, you know what I mean? Uh,
• 0:36
  Enrico: yeah, I mean, probably. Five, 10 years from now, I will talk about something else or, or, or new technology, maybe propane will still be there. Yeah. Yeah. That's the beauty of, uh, of the industry. Sometimes you have to take some leap and this is, but honestly speaking with this refrigerant, , we have developed a full, uh, lineup to a system, so it's, it's okay for us.
• 0:37
  We don't see any drawback here. Um, and with these new technologies, as I was mentioned, the low sound . Is designed to be, to be able to work with this refrigerant. So,
• 0:38
  Trevor: , I'd love to ask you, like, how many of these have you guys, you got these installed in the field already of manufacturers using our contractors working on it right now?
• 0:39
  , yeah,
• 0:40
  Enrico: I mean, the exact number, probably I will have to go out and look at, I don't need an
• 0:41
  Trevor: exact number. You got a few, few hundred, a few
• 0:42
  Enrico: dozen. No, way, way more than that. I mean, um, but, uh, the fact is that. Currently, the heating industry is transitioning to propane, right? So, um, every single manufacturer, uh, is basically transitioning to previous refrigerant.
• 0:43
  You mentioned M14A, R32, and so on. 407C in the past. There's still some out there. And it's transitioning to this new natural refrigerant. So, uh, probably you could say that a couple of years from now, almost every single unit that will be installed in Europe will be a propane unit. For, for, uh, for reading.
• 0:44
  So, um, but yeah, we have also customer in production right now. So yeah,
• 0:45
  Trevor: it's about getting out there. Customers getting comfortable with it, technicians getting comfortable with it, you know, cause I've talked to so many technicians around the globe and lots of them work on propane, but lots of them don't, you know, are two 90.
• 0:46
  So the biggest thing is comfort, you know, working on it, understanding how it, uh, how it works, how to be safe around it. Like technicians right now, they use. Oxy acetylene, or they use, uh, uh, um, acetylene, you know, to burn pipe. So that's flames in their hands at that point. You know what I mean? Way more dangerous.
• 0:47
  Yeah. And they understand how to use that. So I think it's the training side of it and understand the safety practice. And I, and I don't think it's, I do lots of these trainings with, uh, with technicians and contractors and, and, and they get it, you know, and they get it. But the training portion is important because it's, it's, it's, it's, it's.
• 0:48
  Different than what it was, the way it was done to the way it's done today.
• 0:49
  Enrico: Yeah, absolutely. And we have also, I mean, for example, training, but also, you know, when we're talking about the sound stuff, , it's important also for, uh, the end user, not only for the installers. Right. And, um, I mean, probably the end user doesn't care if it's a propane unit, a Fortinet, as long as it delivers what he wants and it's the best environmental friendly unit they can be.
• 0:50
  Uh, but we have cases like, um. In which older generation of Vipam were kind of put, uh, I mean, not that they think the technology itself was kind of, uh, I just loud. How can you do that? And, uh, can you store it? And so on. I think that there is also training to be done there on the, not only because it's efficient, not only because it's there and there, but also, uh, the sound aspect of that can lead also to problems to the installer.
• 0:51
  Right? If you install a unit, it's super, super noisy. Okay. And then your neighbor complains about it, the first one to be called is the installer. And it's gonna cost a lot of money also to solve a problem on the field. And maybe you will have to replace the unit and install a good one. Not a good idea.
• 0:52
  I mean, I think there's a lot of things to do on install there and the training itself. It's, it's true.
• 0:53
  Trevor: No. And that, and that's the thing too. Like, um, I'm assuming, cause I remember, um, Sound blankets, we putting on like compressors on certain units, you know, uh, with the digital compressors because people install them in the wrong location.
• 0:54
  Cause you know, you can't just put them on a metal roof with a metal system. You can hear that coming through that technology. People just didn't understand that. Okay. When it loads and unloads, it changes the sound, you know, so that can affect where you put the location. So the, uh, With this, though, it's going into a similar location around each house or each apartment building, so you've got to understand where The windows are, but with this newer, uh, I guess less loud or lower sound, um, unit that there's more of an option.
• 0:55
  I'd love to find out a little bit more how, how this is done. I don't know how deep you can dive. Like, is it thicker? Is it a thicker metal? Is it the way, , and I'm assuming it's a scroll. I'm assuming it's a scroll inside. Scrolls are a lot, uh, quieter, but, , thicker shells, things like that. Yeah.
• 0:56
  Enrico: Oh, well, that's one of the thing, right? Uh, that's the probably the first one we did. It's the thicker shell compressor Uh, there's plenty of other things, uh that we have done at the level of the design. Not everything is brand new, but we work a lot on the single components , there are ways also I learned during the development of this product. Some of the noise the compressor is generating also comes from the motor itself. So you have also to design the motor different in order to avoid additional sound. , you have surfaces you can smooth and, uh, create a little bit less, uh, resonances there.
• 0:57
  Gas flow inside the compressor itself, it's important. A valve in the compressor can generate sound. So we basically took everything and not designed it from scratch, but starting to look, okay, this is influencing this. So we had kind of a list of 20 things that could generate, , opportunity of sound reduction.
• 0:58
  I remember the first time I saw this list, every single one of them was like my five, zero point five DB, one to be the first thing that told me Rico, don't even dream about some of them, some of them at all, because some things will cancel each other. Don't even start some of them.
• 0:59
  Okay, so I wait, I'll wait. And then at the end, it's how we reach 10 DB. But yeah, it was, um, An interesting journey, and I remember there was like, um, really an open, a blank sheet of paper from the engineering team and said, look, go for it. This is what we need. And I'm really, I was really excited at the end to see the, the actual result
• 1:00
  and the hearing, or let's say even less of that during the first test we did was really, really, really fun for me. , I'm really proud of what we achieved here.
• 1:01
  Trevor: And you should, because it takes a, like you said, five years in the making or more, you know what I mean? Yeah. I counted the development of those other products before, and I'm sure customers are.
• 1:02
  That are trying it or enjoying it because they're, they're the ones that are, you're getting the calls. You know what I mean? Because you supply a product to another one of your customers, which goes to another contractor out there. So there is a chain of things before it even gets back to you. But now getting these results and hearing this stuff is probably definitely, uh, music to your ears.
• 1:03
  Because a lot of work to do this stuff. It doesn't, it doesn't happen overnight. Um, so, so, uh, I'm glad that, uh, I'll get an opportunity to check this out when I'm at Chillventa.
• 1:04
  Enrico: Yeah, we have, uh, we're gonna have this kind of, um, we call it like sound booth, so you can experience the different, uh, We, we download sound, so it's going to be interesting.
• 1:05
  Yeah. You will see, you will see it. We have a, we have some surprises for the people that will come to Chillventa.
• 1:06
  I love that event because there's just so much technologies. I'm like a kid in the candy store at Chillventa. ,
• 1:07
  Trevor: what are some of the other things that, um, you're excited about, about this event, because I know you love having conversations with the customers.
• 1:08
  You know, you love. Meeting the people that are using the equipment and getting their feedback, good or bad, you know what I mean? That's what we want. It's always better if it's good, but you want to get feedback so you can go back and make sure that you're making the best products out there. What are other things that you're excited about, uh, for Chilvanta?
• 1:09
  Enrico: I, Actually excited for what I don't know about yet, because there might be some surprises there. Uh, so that's what I really, I, I usually, when I go to exhibition, you start with, okay, let's go for the standard things, and then you look around.
• 1:10
  Oh, that's interesting. So I'm, I'm looking for some, for some surprises over there. I'm also looking forward to meet some of the colleagues that will come for the industrial and, uh, for the, for the other segments so that it's gonna be an international show. I mean, it's. We know that, right?
• 1:11
  You're coming, there are other people from all over the world that will We'll join us. So that's, that's, that's the interesting part of, for me, really meeting people, see the new technology thing. And, and we have a lot of things at our, at a couple of booths. Of course, we have the commercial range with propane.
• 1:12
  We have all the refrigeration team there, uh, with CO2 and so on. We have the industrial team with the alternative. I mean, it's going to be a great show. I'm sure.
• 1:13
  Trevor: And that's the thing. You got, you do have a massive line of products, you know, even this, the Viltr heat pump, I'm excited to learn more about that.
• 1:14
  I know I had Jean Louis Picard, who is one of the pioneers of, uh, screw technology on the podcast, talking about their, the, CO2 transcritical screw compressor. And now this here is more on the, the industrial heat pump. So I know a lot of people, you know, it's still new trying the decarbonization.
• 1:15
  It's not actually new, but you know, it's being more media in the media a bit more. So now more of the public is starting to understand. Like we talk really good inri, go, we we're refrigeration. We can talk really good about it, but it's getting the people outside. Kind of like the heat pump we were talking about.
• 1:16
  Now we're hearing people in their homes talking about, oh, they got a heat pump versus they got an air conditioner. You know, you know, it's the difference. So with this industrial stuff, this is, I think this stuff is gonna be a, a game changer for the planet when we, we start to, um, to develop more of what, what is it not decentralized, what the word I'm.
• 1:17
  Trying to come up with is more, um,
• 1:18
  Enrico: district heating,
• 1:19
  Trevor: that's it. Sorry. I just had a district heating, you know, and, um, this filter heat pump, I think is involved in district heating at this point.
• 1:20
  Enrico: Absolutely it is. My, I'm responsible and I be working in a small system, let's say, so the residential pump or single family house and a single apartment.
• 1:21
  Uh, yeah, but that's the other part of the equation, right? Um, we will need to decarbonize the entire European eating sector and it's not going to be Only done through small pumps. We will need. There is a lot of district eating out there, but it's still running with fossil fuel and so on. And I think the built up technology is perfect replacement for that.
• 1:22
  I mean, they go to very high temperature. I'm not a super expert in that, and it's 1 of the reason I'm excited to go to achieve with this to look at understand exactly what that thing is capable of. But, yeah, I mean, if you look at all the cities. That need that as already a kind of distributed system, but that's the perfect solution to decarbonize that.
• 1:23
  So I'm, I'm also looking forward to, to have a more discussion about that, that capability.
• 1:24
  Trevor: I want to talk with some of the engineers just to find out a little bit more, because I know, , I'm, I'm pretty sure they can get up to about five megawatts, so that's pretty big. Uh,
• 1:25
  Enrico: I think that's kind of, yeah, I think the top end range, one to five, that's a range.
• 1:26
  And there's a lot. I have to send a lot of ecosystem to cover that.
• 1:27
  Trevor: Yeah, yeah, that is a lot of stuff. And then I think it can go up to, I think, 95 Celsius, over 200 Fahrenheit. Oh, no, even
• 1:28
  Enrico: more.
• 1:29
  Trevor: Even more.
• 1:30
  Enrico: And now they can go really high. I mean, they have, uh, they have a, New technology that can actually go up to 120, but yeah. Somebody is listening and is interested, let's go there and check. Come to Sylventa and check this technology, so
• 1:31
  Trevor: it's great. That's it.
• 1:32
  Where are you guys located? What hall do you know offhand?
• 1:33
  Enrico: Oh, that's a very good question. I should know it by heart, but I don't. But I'm sure I can look it up right now. Yeah, you can look it up right now, or there is a Hall 6, booth 320.
• 1:34
  Trevor: So, I would write it down. So, yeah, yeah. Cause this event is so big, right?
• 1:35
  I remember there's so many different halls that you can walk up and down. Uh, if you're a technician, a contractor, an end user, what's, what's great about it. What, one of the things you need good, good shoes. Okay. You need good shoes coming to the event. Um, and yeah, lots of water.
• 1:36
  You got one, one great thing about this event. There's lots of great coffees at different booths, booths, um, drinks at the booth. Lots of water. Cause you're going to put in your steps. Like I definitely lose a few pounds every time I go to this event. And I do, I do hope to lose a couple of pints and, uh, and then make a plan.
• 1:37
  Right. So to, to find out where, where Copeland booth is and all the other places you want to see, you got to make a plan because you're not going to get to all the places, uh, all the time, because even at, at your booth, there's so many technologies, you can probably spend a whole day going around talking to each of them, just in one booth, like your booth, cause it's so big.
• 1:38
  Um, and, and that's important for, if you go into this event to, to prepare yourself, because I know the first time I went, um, I wasn't prepared for that much walking because I've been to a lot of events. But there was just so much I wanted to see. And I was like trying to run around to see all the different stuff, uh, which is exciting.
• 1:39
  So you got the low sound heat pump, uh, that you're, you're excited about the industrial, uh, uh, Viltor heat pump, which is great. And we know he pump is that's the direction that our industry's going right now to decarbonize. What other, what are a few other things that you can think off the top of your head?
• 1:40
  Um, that, you
• 1:41
  Enrico: know, the, the, the CO2 solution from, uh, for the cold chain application.
• 1:42
  Trevor: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:43
  Enrico: That's a, that's a very breakthrough, another breakthrough technology there.
• 1:44
  Trevor: Um, I'm excited about that one again. Like I know at the last show Venta, I did, uh, a couple of videos with Daniel DeBeers, , on the transcritical scroll.
• 1:45
  , but I know over the last two years, there's still a bunch of development that went into it, you know, cause you're always fine and trying to get a read better, trying to get a better,
• 1:46
  , it's not bad. No, but it's true. Yeah, we have to, we are continuously improving our technology.
• 1:47
  Enrico: That that's correct. Like we're doing, uh, everywhere, you know, all our products.
• 1:48
  Trevor: Exactly. It's not like you just make a product and then that's it. You know, it's that there's always that refining fine tuning and make it better. Cause the biggest thing is, this is how you keep competitive in the market.
• 1:49
  Because there's a lot of competition out there, and you have to keep at the forefront of technology, which is super exciting. I'm excited to see those components as well, and those systems, because as you know, my background is in supermarket refrigeration, as well as in compressors, because I learned from the best around the world.
• 1:50
  And it's nice to see these technologies start to evolve. Which is pretty exciting. Enrico, how can people find out a little bit more about these technologies if they want to dive in a little bit deeper?
• 1:51
  If they want to learn about you?
• 1:52
  Enrico: Probably the easiest way is there's Koblin. com you can look me up on LinkedIn. I'm Enrico Falcari. I'm happy to As for all the questions you guys have, uh, and from there, why don't you come to Sylventa? We're all going to be there. If you're there, just, uh, come to all six and we're going to be there and try to answer every question you have and show whatever we have on the book.
• 1:53
  Trevor: I'm, I'm definitely going to do it. And this is what I've been talking to people for last two years. It's an event that you got to save up for. It's a big trip. If you're not in Germany, you know what I mean?
• 1:54
  So it does take some time away, but it's worth it. You know, and if you're not going to make it this year, follow my, my social medias, because I'm going to try to make it feel like you're there the next one's in two years. So now I can start saving up and, and getting prepared for it to, to go to the next one.
• 1:55
  And I believe it's in 2026. This is your plan. I've been planning for the last two years to go to this event. So it didn't happen overnight. So, uh, and I'm excited about it. I'm excited to see you there. I'm excited to check out that sound booth. Um, so I want to thank you so much for taking the time sharing some of this knowledge with me because I know heat pump technology is going to continue to evolve and grow.
• 1:56
  And be out there in the marketplace. So thank you.
• 1:57
  Enrico: Yeah, it's the next big thing
• 1:58
  Trevor: since 1980,
• 1:59
  Enrico: you know, I'm almost positive this time. It was the one,
• 2:00
  Trevor: Well, it's here now. No going back now. It's here. It's here. We see it here. Manufacturer, people call me up all the time and ask me, like, did you do heat pump training, CO2, propane, just because it's happening, right?
• 2:01
  And they're trying to prepare, all the manufacturers are trying to prepare, their customers, contractors are trying to prepare, end users are trying to prepare, because it is a different, it is a bit different technology than the way it was done, you know, from boilers and, and from different other previous technologies.
• 2:02
  So I'm excited,
• 2:03
  Thank you so much for taking the time and look forward to connecting. Absolutely,
• 2:04
  Enrico: no problem.