Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #493 What Gender Ideologies Profane: "The Great Beauty of Love Between Man and Woman as a Participation in the Mystery of all mysteries, Trinitarian Love"

Transcript

#493 What Gender Ideologies Profane: "The Great Beauty of Love Between Man and Woman as a Participation in the Mystery of all mysteries, Trinitarian Love" · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Become who you Are podcast, a production of the John Paul II Renewal Center.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm Jack Rigg, your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for joining me today.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: St Catherine of Siena said that if you become who you are, that you would literally set the world on fire.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And St Athanasius, an early church father and a doctor of the church, said the son of God became man so that we might become God.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: You know I make a wild guess at this, but I bet you, most of us, are a bit disconnected from this divine life that these saints are pointing us to.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Yet Saint John Paul II said there's an echo of the story of this divine life that we're created for, inscribed in each human heart, in your human heart, and if you put on the proper lens if I put on the proper lens we can get in touch with this echo within us in such a way that we have that aha moment.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: See, that's the genus of St John Paul II's theology of the body.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: It connects our lived experience of life to the gospel in such a way that our life takes on a whole new meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Who am I?
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: What's my purpose?
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Why were we created, male and female?
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: How do I find happiness here on earth?
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: How do I find love that satisfies forever?
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Hey, glad you're with me, I'll be.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: We are back for audience number 89.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: John Paul II, presented on August 11, 1982.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: This is one of the most profound and beautiful parts of theology.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: This is the core, this is what he would call the summa, and it goes from Ephesians 5.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: In essence, just paraphrasing, we'll dig in a little deeper.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: But husbands, love your wives' lives, love your husbands in reverence for Christ, as Christ loves the Church.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Our marriages are a sign of Trinitarian love in the world.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: If we forget that, if we forget the beauty of what we're created for, we'll never really get an understanding or never receive an understanding of what authentic love is, what marriage is, what the family is and even where we're going with this into an eternal love story.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: But eternity, linda, and welcome Linda.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Eternity doesn't mean tomorrow, eternity means forever.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: We're supposed to get a taste of this eternal love story here on earth.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: The way things are going, certainly we've gotten far away from this.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: So, linda, say hello and I think, before you know, there's so much we could talk about today, but let's describe somehow, let's get through the beauty of the image, of this, the beauty of the way it's supposed to be in the beginning and the reality.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: John Paul says this, linda, that he really wants to be practical, that this is practical reality and also the awe and wonder of the mystery of God, but also practical.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: He wanted this theology of the body, as dense as it is, to be a practical work so that we could walk into this love story, we could experience it for ourselves.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: So it's not just an academic exercise.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Welcome, wanda, Good to see you.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: That's so true.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you, jack.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: You know I've been studying Theology of the Body and reading and rereading and doing these podcasts with you.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: I think I started back in 2007,.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I think when we first took our first class and it never ceases to amaze me the richness and the depth and the beauty of what we discover here.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I have to tell you, in studying audience 89, it almost brought me to tears once again.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Now I've been married 53 years, almost.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Once again.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Now I've been married 53 years almost and I still, when I read the description, what God had planned for our marriages, it brings me to tears because all of us fall short.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: You know so the practicality here is not perfect.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Our marriages are never going to be perfect, but they can come pretty darn close to what God had planned.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: And remember I think it was last audience I had said how, when a couple is living out this plan of God and they're actually trying to be that Trinitarian image, that love of God of the Trinity becoming visible on earth through our marriages, that's the marriage that someone outside will look at that couple and say, wow, there's something different, there's something special about what I see and you may not be able to put your finger on any specifics, because it infuses the entire relationship.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: And I think John Paul addresses exactly what that is in the very first paragraph today.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: He just says this statement the reciprocal relations of husband and wife must bring from their common relation with Christ and to me, jack, there it is once again, bam right in my face that relationship with Christ where we have opened ourselves up to his love and to the redemption he offers us, then we're going to always fall way short of what our marriages should be.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: So that's where I want to start with the beauty of what is the source for us all to achieve what that visual image of the Trinitarian love could be.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for that.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: And so let's dwell on that for a few minutes, because when a man and a woman are looking to, you know, repair, say, their marriage, or make it better, or they sense that they need to go deeper, or something's either wrong or it's right and they want to make it even better.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: They look to each other.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: You know how can we fix this?
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Let's go to a therapist, let's read a book, let's do you know whatever.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: But what you said is, if they really want their marriage to get better, we don't look at one another first, we look at Christ first.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: If we look at Christ first, you know, the Bible says again be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: So my wife and I are extending out in space and time think about this.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: My wife and I are extending out in space and time that which we both have received in Holy Communion, where we submitted.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: So submit yourselves right Women.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Submit yourselves to your husbands, as Christ does the church right.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Christ is the head of the church, and that always makes radical feminists and women in general, when they first read that, and even men right.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: They say well, what do you mean?
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: She's subject to me.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Well, not just subject to you.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: You have to read the rest, as Christ is the head and the bride is subject to Christ.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Well, what is she subject to?
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: She's subject to his wedding proposal.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: She's subject to him, you know, naked on the cross, giving himself, submitting his wedding proposal to her.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: So again.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: So my wife and I are extending out in space and time what we both received in holy communion and being reverence to Christ and submitting ourselves to him.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Who is the bridegroom?
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: We both, my wife and I both, are submitting to what To him, to the bridegroom submitted to his wedding proposal to be what To be one with me.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: It's important to remember that it's Jesus who submits first.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: So let me just finish this thought.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Right, jesus comes into the story.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: He humbles himself totally, takes on a body, but then he goes up on a cross naked.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Think about a man's wedding proposal.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: He gets down, say, on one knee.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: He's exposing himself to a certain extent.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: He's very vulnerable.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: He can be rejected.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: At this point, when a man asks for a woman on a date for the first time, he has a good chance of being rejected, right?
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: It's a very scary kind of vulnerable time.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: So here's Jesus, who is not only stepping in to ask you for a date or a wedding proposal.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: He's totally naked.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: He's totally exposed his heart.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Everything he has is exposed around the cross, it's poured out, and he's pouring this all out, and then you can reject him, you can walk away from him, and so this is what we're saying yes to, to the one who already pursues us.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Why do we call God Father?
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Because he initiates that gift of love, and this is what we have to keep in mind.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: This is the beauty of this love story.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: It's never about submitting to some domination, and this is the problem we have.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: And this is the reality.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: And I know that you wanted to speak on the redemption of the body, because this is the reality of who we are, Linda.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: How can a woman submit to a man whose heart is full of lust and selfishness?
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: And you know it would be.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: it's almost disgusting when you start to think about the beauty that it was supposed to be and the reality that so many women experience because of lust and selfishness many women experience because of lust and selfishness and, jack, because of that, you do have many women who have experienced far less of the love that the husband is supposed to give to his wife, as Christ gives to the church, so that we've got a lot of hard hearts out there because of that experience the Pope in this audience says that Hard wounded hearts right, I mean wounded really.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, and disgusting too is that all of it diminishes the great dignity that we each have, being made in the image and likeness of God, which we've talked about many times, and that's where our dignity comes from.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: The Pope makes a statement here in this audience saying that when St Paul is saying wives be subject to your husband, he is saying love excludes every kind of submission by which the wife would become a servant or slave of the husband or an object of the one-sided submission.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Sadly, so many of us just hear that we can't unhear this element of becoming a servant or a slave.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: And I said why.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I was asking myself why is that such that most women today can't hear it any other way?
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: And the answer, I think, emerges when we once more revisit that the root of that is sin.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: The root of it is rejecting that love from Christ.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: And when we reject that, we're rejecting God and we're saying you know, back to the tree, we want to do it our way, we want to be God.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: And so, rather than the husband pouring himself out and becoming that sincere gift of self, the domination ensues and that's directly a result of sin.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: And the Pope in another document of his in Mulieris Dignitatum on the Dignity and Vocation of Women he makes a very strong point that women, so the dignity that we each have, this domination that a man may be caught up in involves an element to the disadvantage of the woman.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: At the same time, it also diminishes the dignity of the man, dignity of the man.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: And you see, do men understand that?
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: That by their weakness in their wanting to pour themselves out for their wives and their families, that it's diminishing them as well, and I think that's in part why we see this just tremendous clash of men and women in our culture.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: That has led to all the divorces and all the problems and all the brokenness, and it's being carried on, you know, through generations, because boys aren't seeing the model they should be seeing in their dads and the girls in their mothers, you see.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: And so it all kind of goes back to here's the situation that we're in in St Paul says become the new man, put off the old man.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: That it is through that reverence for Christ, which in the Bible, some translations do say, out of the fear of Christ and this is not the fear of, oh, I'm afraid of something, I'm scared of what's going to happen it is that reverence for Christ and a recognition that when we start there, with that reverence for Christ, that both husband and wife are called to be submissive to Christ, and then we're capable of submitting to one another out of that reverence for Christ.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: So we wanted to focus on the beauty I hope we've described it well while we're facing the reality of all the brokenness, and yet I think we have the solution too.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, again, I think that if we don't really understand that, we do.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: You know, look at, when you look around, the evil and the pornography and what we're doing to kids themselves, the stolen innocence.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: You know this is really.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: We're going down almost to the drain.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: And the solution is is not that complicated?
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: You know, you walk into mass, you know, so we hear wives ought to be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Think about this right.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Christ, the bridegroom again, is the Savior of the body.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: He's the Savior of the body.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, you know, we come into a world that's not neutral.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: So many people today have rejected God and the Western civilization has become secular, and so we have less and less people going to Mass.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: And people that are going to Mass, sometimes once a month or whatever do they really realize what's going on, right?
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: So the default position for a body and a soul without this grace that we're talking about is sin and death.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: It's the threefold concupiscence.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: So it's impossible.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a pornographic, lustful use.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: You know where, if a baby comes out of that union, we're going to abort that child without much thought.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Now the flip side of this at Mass today, I was there thinking about everything we're talking about, as the priest was consecrating the Eucharist and I thought the bridegroom comes humbly on a cross we have a beautiful, big, beautiful crucifix behind the priest.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: So the sacrifice on the altar.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: He comes to make love right, to redeem us in love, by love for love.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: So we who are gathered there this morning, his body, take on sacramentally the bride.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: So I become.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I become as a man, we all became, as the body of this church, the receptacle, the womb right For him, who carries the seed of life.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: So a man carries the seed.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: A wife, within her egg, is the receptacle.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: It's the receptacle for this life, the seed they carry half.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Once that baby explodes into a zygote, you know it's half of her DNA comes from that receptacle, that egg.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: But still she receives the seed.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: So us, as a body sitting in the church, we receive that seed.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Today we become the receptacle to receive the seed of eternal life, divine life and love.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: God himself, jesus himself, pours this into us.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: When we take the posture of a woman, as I received the Eucharist, I was kneeling there thinking I take the posture here of the bride Received in my womb, in my body.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: I become a temple of the Holy Spirit and the fruit of the love of the Father and Son is now extended to me, then I walk in the door of my home and I just extend that to my wife, right?
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: And if my wife understands that, she receives that love from me and gives it right back to me and flows Just like when I received the Eucharist, I said thank you, right, in essence, thank you to Jesus, right, amen.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I believe in you, I trust in you, I receive you in my body and I receive you in a state of love so that you can be fruitful in my body, just as, like my wife and I make love to one another, we're open to life so that we can be fruitful and bring this divine life into the world and even generate new life.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Through that act, right, we're extending out this Trinitarian love story throughout the world.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Right Great description.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: You just underlined a key point that is made in this audience that Christ is the source and at the same time the model of that fruitfulness, of the submission, of the extending out of the love, and that all humanity needs to have that receptive posture.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: I know when we were first studying this it was really difficult for me because we are dealing with analogies here and I remember in one of the classes that being stressed that the Pope had said that all analogies fall short.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: But the analogy we're dealing with here, the church taking that will the receptivity.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And yet in the physical plane being made as man and woman, we can't both be.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: The giver has the seed, and who gives himself to the woman and the woman receives that the gift of self becomes mutually reciprocal in that way that by receiving that reception actually becomes a gift in and of itself as well.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: And so this is the idea that, hey, face it, we know that men and women have different proclivities, where they're better at things.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean that, like, I can't change the tire on my car, and it doesn't mean that you can't cook a fabulous meal you're a chef, right.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't mean that we can't do these things that are more typically male oriented or female oriented.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: But we go down to that deep level and say what is that complementarity we're always talking about?
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: It is this initiation of the gift and the receptivity of the gift, and they interpenetrate in a way that each becomes a gift.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: And when we've talked about that gift of self to each other, that's the root of our marriages and the ability to do it.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: The source comes from that receptivity, both male and female, to Christ's love and his pouring out.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: And so it finally clicked with me.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I hope I did a good job, kind of describing it, because if we don't get that, we'll never get anywhere close to resolving so many of the brokenness, the issues in marriages that we have today.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for that, and let's extend it out now.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: So Jesus then does what?
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Think about this he takes on a human form, a human body, and what does he do?
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: This is how intimately the Eucharist and how intimately a man and woman's love is supposed to be sacramentally reflecting that.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Jesus takes on a human body and unites it within himself with divinity, with Trinitarian love in his body.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: So this is how united his body is.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: And think about this how does Jesus walk in the main door?
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: That's theology of the body.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Right, jesus takes on a body.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: The study of God walks through the main door.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Does he come in?
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: As a knight?
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: You know this armored knight riding on a great white stallion with power to rule over the armies of the world.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: This is what the Israelites, this is what the Old Testament prophet I mean the Old Testament, the people in the Old Testament expected.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: This is why they one of the reasons why they rejected Christ is because he came in humbly.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Right, he came in humbly.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: So the spirit love.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Think about this.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: God who carries the seed of creation.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Right, the initiator of the gift of life unites with an egg in this world, the receptacle of the seed in a real woman's body.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: This is our Blessed Mother.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: This is the intimacy that Jesus came here.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: But how does he do it?
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: He comes into a family, a very poor, very humble family, but God, the Spirit right, the Spirit of love between the Father and Son, actually impregnates the egg, the womb.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: This is a sign.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Look and think about the Eucharist again.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: So here's a human being.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: So before Jesus is born, right Right before he takes on his human body, that seed now is boom, planted by God into a woman, right.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: And so God is present in each one of us.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: When I was exploded on the scene, when you were exploded on the scene, god is present there.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: And as soon as a man and a woman unite, he breathes the soul into us.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: And so what happens?
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: He breathes the soul into us.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: And so what happens?
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Jesus actually took on half the DNA of a woman, of an earthly woman.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Our Blessed Mother is the mother of God and our mother.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: And finally, the woman, the symbol of the church, the bride who, as I knelt today to receive the Eucharist, I knelt with our Blessed Mother, I said yes, and I was literally impregnated again with God.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: This again is what we're making sacramentally present to man and woman in the world, this relationship, the beauty and power of that, I mean it's almost breathtaking.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: You know, like you said, you almost want to cry when you see, I think, the cry of the beauty.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: You want to cry because of the beauty and also cry because of what you described, as we can't reach it totally, and you almost cry because-.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: The way we've messed it up right.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes exactly.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes Again.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Beautiful description, Jack.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: And of course, for Christ to come in the flesh required that receptivity of our Blessed Mother to say yes, so it all hinged on that you see.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: And so who are we to say no, we're not going to receive this gift?
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: When we look at her as the model, ultimate model for that receptivity, um, again, it's a beautiful thing to consider that.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: It requires that humility that we've talked about to say that, you know, what I'm being called to is to first receive that love, so that then I can go out and give that love, because I can't give what I don't have.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: How, when Jesus took on flesh, he's.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: What do I want to say?
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: The very thesis of theology of the body is that it's our bodies, and only our bodies, that make visible the invisibles, the spiritual and the divine.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: And he's the ultimate example of that, coming the way he did, through that little tiny baby's body, making it all visible to us.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: So again, you know, I just kind of wrap myself around meditating about that and thinking about the beauty is truly overwhelming.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: And what is he making visible?
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: He's making visible the heart of God himself.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: And so, when you think about the church again, as I walked into the church today to go to Mass, in the tabernacle, behind the altar is the womb of the church.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: This is where Christ stays of the church, this is where Christ stays in the womb of the bride.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Our Easter candle we just had Easter it's plunged repeatedly during a ceremony, plunged repeatedly into the baptismal font, impregnating divine life and bringing that divine life into the womb of the church.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: That's what that baptismal font is the womb of the church.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: And so, when we pray and receive the Eucharist, we kneel with our Blessed Mother again, we say yes to the marriage proposal.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: This is my body, blood, soul and divinity poured out to every drop, and in our reception, we're literally impregnated with God again.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: This is what spouses participate in, linda.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: This is the bond, and the bond is forever.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Why does Jesus say you can't get divorced Because God will not divorce himself from you.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: You can reject God, but he won't reject you, right?
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: And then, finally and I think this is what we really miss today is that it has to be open to fruitfulness.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Love has to be open, and so this is why we can't contracept, you can't abort children, you can't have two women, two men.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, this is a sacramental sign.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Only a man and a woman are able to generate this new divine life and love in the world.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when we understand this image, jack, it becomes very clear why we can't do all of these things.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: And yet, you know, people have gone so far away of understanding this image that I hope that, you know, our study here can bring them back, because everything you described is really the root of understanding why all of these issues that we've gone off the rails with continue to bring us deeper and deeper into brokenness and most of it ends in death.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Right, you know you have, the lives of people are ruined and you know, to me that's a form of death where, you know, the normal life that one should be living is now shattered.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: You know, so that normal life died and here we are, you know, trying to pick up the pieces and very often it actually leads to actual physical death that would not have happened.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: So, you know, we see that it's a life and death issue for each of us, whether we're going to be open to the love in the life of Christ or not.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, we're all going to die at the end, but we know that when the physical death happens and we have that separation, that our soul does not die and our soul has an eternity, an outcome, and either it will be that ultimate reception of the love of Christ or that ultimate rejection of God very deep issues that we're talking about here.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: But we can pull it back to our everyday life and you know the implication for us, especially in this audience, as husbands and wives, to really reflect on.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Do I, as an individual, accept that love and that reception to Christ?
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And then how is it playing out in our marriage?
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: There's a great analogy that was brought up when we were studying this that can help us understand the husband and wife relationship by thinking about dancing.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: And you think about, let me say, the old-fashioned dancing, a waltz, for example.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: You know, I used to watch Dancing with the Stars years ago and of course, so many of the dances have become very broken in my opinion, but a waltz is one of those that still.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: You know the woman would wear the beautiful dress that would flow and you watch the movement and of course, the man is leading the woman and the description here, if you really watch how it works, in his leadership, what he's really doing is drawing attention to and highlighting the beauty of the woman, the flowing of the dance itself, by leading her through the steps, and I think this such a beautiful image that, if we could think, the woman in the dance relationship then is relying on the strength of the man as they're performing each of the steps as part of this dance, and it's such a visual image of the way our complementarity should work together, creating the beauty that is the dance right.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: And so if we can get that and apply it and say we're not supposed to be butting heads all the time and, as a woman, be butting heads all the time and, as a woman, if I can see that my husband is leading me in that servant role of being the head of the household and bringing our family towards the good, whatever the situation might be, how wonderful it is to submit to that, you see.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: And so the practicality of it can become very real for everyone if we'll just stop and think through what we've talked about today.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Just a little bit, yeah and as you grow, you realize what Jesus said, though At the end you're not going to be slaves, you won't be servants, you're going to be my friends.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I will call you friends.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: So the evolution of this, why you submit to his love.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: In that submission you become friends, right?
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: He elevates you To your analogy of the dance.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: This isn't a slavery and this isn't a submission to some domination.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: This is someone who wants to lift you up and bring you to this glorious union.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, when Christ comes back, we're going to take on a body again.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a glorified body, so the body becomes important forever.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: As we wind down here, christopher West does a great job and Michael Waldstein brings this out in his Forward to Christopher West commentary on the theology of the body, and he says this he says Christopher's pastoral method and, following John Paul, learning from John Paul, is to show that the great beauty of love between a man and a woman is a participation in the mystery of all mysteries, trinitarian love.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: He shows it as a beauty that can be lived and in some degree experienced.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: West's commentary is helpful, waldstein says, above all because it facilitates the encounter with this beauty and the reverence for the body that flows from it.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: If we understood, linda, that if you want to bring, you know once I've received, and once my wife has received, this power of this redemption of the body right, and we're walking into the story, never overcoming it totally in this life.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: We know that the temptations will always come.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: We know this is always a work.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: You'll be very frustrated if you think you've overcome concupiscence once and for all and that's the end of it.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: This will be a battle right, but we humble ourselves to Christ.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Now, when we want to bring this grace into our marriage, we actually do it through marital, physical union, through sexual union.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Sexual union is actually the sacrament, it's the sacramental sign of Christ's union with the church.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: When all the smoke and fog clears, your desire to make love to one another and actually come into union and communion with each other points directly at the Eucharist and Christ's desire to become one with us.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: If we understood, like John Paul would say men, before you make love to your wives, take your shoes off.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: You're entering under holy ground.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: You're going to make efficacious.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: So that act of making love to one another physically, sexual union is actually supposed to be and is, if properly understood, efficacious.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: In other words, grace comes into that union.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Grace shows up, god shows up.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: And that's why when people say you know God shouldn't be in my bedroom and you say that's the one place you do not want to take God out of your bedroom, you know is to be filled with divine life and love, to be joined with your wife and the two become one, open to new life, that's efficacious.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Grace comes in there.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Grace will come in when I receive it at the altar in the Mass.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: It will also come in.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: You know, the husband and the wife are ministers of that sacrament to each other on the altar when they got married and also are administering that sacrament and each other on the altar when they got married and also are administering that sacrament and renewing their wedding vows in making love to one another.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: That's what making love is all about.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: If you really understood that, you'd be making love with the lights on, linda.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: That's an incredibly powerful way to make love to one another.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: If your wife and you understood this to make love to one another, this is if your wife and you understood this the headaches would go away with your wife because she would no longer feel used and she'd feel loved.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is where the ache comes from.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: This is where the crying and the tears come from in my own life, because how many opportunities were lost because we got this too late.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to be speaking to engaged couples on Saturday and it's the joy of being able to bring this through to them before their wedding day so they can get a little inkling and understanding of what this is all about.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, I hope that they listen carefully, because to receive this at the beginning of your marriage, even before you're married, and to have even a small understanding of this is going to be it's so hopeful, you know to the view of marriages that will last and begin to turn around.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: What we see in our culture, yes, that mutual self-donation of one to the other, one receiving the other and giving themselves back, is just an incredible beauty that think about it, Jack God has allowed us to share not only in this deep sense of love giving and love reception, but also to share in the procreation as the result of it.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: No, and here we are totally throwing that back in God's face through contraception and then abortion, oh my God.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: And they gender ideologies.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: It's just all of those, all of those.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: So, if we can see, you know, what a distortion those are, um, and how they've replaced the beauty, and bring ourselves back to everything you described in this audience, um, repeat it for for the group that you'll be addressing, because it cannot be stated enough how important you know it is to understand it and what our marriages are and, yes, renewing our marriage vows each time we come together intimately.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: You know, if we could just constantly keep that in mind and what were those vows?
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Think, talk about those sometimes.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: You know, what did I say when we got married?
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: You know, and that would just well.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: So many of the issues, I think, between couples where they're mad at each other about the most silliest of things, right, and really go deep into what are we doing here, what commitment did we make and where are we headed?
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, hey, God bless you.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Linda.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: We'll end on that.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: I think you know that's a proper ending.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks everyone.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Linda, Thank you so much.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Appreciate your time.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: God bless you.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Keep us in your prayers.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Everyone will keep you in ours.