Latest / Karl and Crew / When “I’m Fine” Hides Spiritual Bondage with Dean Vander Mey & Finding Freedom from the “Know More, Do Better” Cycle with Ben Crawshaw

Transcript

When “I’m Fine” Hides Spiritual Bondage with Dean Vander Mey & Finding Freedom from the “Know More, Do Better” Cycle with Ben Crawshaw · Karl and Crew

• 0:00
  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
• 0:06
  S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome
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  S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
• 0:16
  S1: the truth daily.
• 0:17
  S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available.
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  S2: And you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S2: that would make it worth it.
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  S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
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  S3: the life source, which is God.
• 0:32
  S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
• 0:39
  S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
• 0:44
  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
• 0:48
  S1: and crew.
• 0:49
  S2: Freedom equals dependence.
• 0:53
  S3: Accurate statement.
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  S2: Yep. That's going to be the big takeaway of the week.
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  S3: Which is kind of funny when you think about it,
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  S3: because the world standards. That's absolutely untrue. People people think
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  S3: that freedom is freedom from dependence. So I can do
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  S3: whatever I want. I have access to everything. I can't
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  S3: wait to get out from under this thumb.
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  S2: But but boy, oh boy, does independence get us in
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  S2: a whole lot of trouble.
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  S3: Have you tried being the leader of your own life?
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  S3: I have, it don't work.
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  S2: Freedom equals dependence on God. There is no such thing
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  S2: as freedom without it. I agree.
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  S3: 100%.
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  S4: Agree.
• 1:37
  S2: You know, when you think about what it looks like
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  S2: to walk free, what masks do people tend to wear
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  S2: that keep them from being fully free? Think about the
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  S2: masks that you put. I'm not talking about the Covid
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  S2: masks not going down that road. I'm talking about the
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  S2: the self that you put on when you walk out
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  S2: that front door to meet the world.
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  S3: The facades.
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  S2: Yeah. And it's subtle sometimes.
• 2:02
  S3: Mhm. That keep us from. From.
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  S2: Keep you from freedom.
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  S3: Yeah. You know, I think that one of the masks is.
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  S3: I think it comes from a place of maybe having
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  S3: some bad experiences when you were under the dependence of
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  S3: somebody in, in the world, maybe like a parent or
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  S3: someone that was trusted. That was I, I was under
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  S3: this person and it was horrible. I will never follow
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  S3: anybody ever again. Uh, and the idea of following God
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  S3: is too scary because of the trauma that's been experienced.
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  S2: Okay. So what kind of mask would that be, do
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  S2: you think if you had to whittle that down?
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  S3: I think it's, uh, a self isolating mask. I don't
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  S3: I don't need anybody. Okay. Yeah.
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  S2: So the mask that says I'm good don't need anyone.
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  S3: Cuz I can't trust anyone. Okay. Yeah.
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  S2: So what do you think? What are some of the
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  S2: masks that people wear when they walk out that front
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  S2: door to meet the world.
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  S4: I think it's that smile, like I'm fine. And they
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  S4: throw themselves, whether it be into work or into service
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  S4: or to whatever it may be, and they dwell into
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  S4: that identity and live into that identity. And it's like
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  S4: a little cube that they can stay and be safe.
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  S4: And I'm this, I'm whatever they're doing in life, that's
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  S4: what they stay in and they stay in that box.
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  S2: So I'm fine. I've got everything. I don't need anyone's help.
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  S2: I've got everything that I need.
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  S3: The the mask of pride of. I built this life.
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  S3: This was on me. I'm successful. Uh. Why would I
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  S3: ever go and just give my life to somebody else?
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  S3: I built this thing on my own.
• 3:43
  S2: You know, I remember having a conversation at a of
• 3:46
  S2: all places, at a, at a hair salon one time.
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  S4: Hey, good conversation, good conversations.
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  S2: And, you know, there was a, there was a gentleman
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  S2: who was doing my hair and. met a couple times before.
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  S2: You know, we're we're friendly through, you know.
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  S3: Like.
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  S2: Acquaintances. And so we started talking about faith. And I
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  S2: quickly realized that he had some real anger around faith. Oh, okay.
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  S2: And I don't know, I couldn't pin down if it
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  S2: came from like, hurt, maybe having been hurt in church
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  S2: or hurt by a, a Christian. But when we started
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  S2: talking about like kind of any sort of coming under
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  S2: or any authority, God being an authority, he got really
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  S2: like it kind of heated. And it was, it surprised
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  S2: me a little bit. And he was like, I, I've
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  S2: done this, like this life that I've made, what I've
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  S2: done for my family, how I've provided. He was almost
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  S2: like he was starting to get. And it wasn't. It
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  S2: was clear he wasn't. He wasn't angry. It wasn't me.
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  S2: He wasn't angry with me. But any sort of suggestion that.
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  S2: Like God's help. Ha, I did this. Look what I've built.
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  S2: And I thought, what an interesting way to live. Because
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  S2: there wasn't. He wasn't free. Like you could tell that
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  S2: there was. I mean, something got pricked. Yeah.
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  S4: That caused this.
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  S2: Sort of overreaction to make sure that with the foot
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  S2: stomped on the ground. Don't you dare suggest that anybody
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  S2: else had anything to do with the success that I've built.
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  S2: This is my life. I've worked hard, I've done this.
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  S4: And a lot of people feel that way and just
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  S4: really emphasize that way. Because the thing is, if I
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  S4: did it, then there's no strings attached. I owe no one. Yeah, nothing.
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  S4: I'm tied to no one, no strings attached, no nothing.
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  S4: It's it's all on me.
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  S3: You know, I was listening to a devotion on the
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  S3: way into work this morning. Uh, I think it's Psalm 103,
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  S3: 15 and 16 where it was talking about, uh, human life.
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  S3: And it's, it's like grass. The grass withers and the
• 6:01
  S3: flowers fade away. And, and we don't feel like grass
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  S3: as we're living life. It feels like, oh, these days
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  S3: are long. My life is long. And look how much
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  S3: I can do in it. But at the end of
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  S3: the day, even the the strongest things that we feel
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  S3: like we've built on our own can crumble in the
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  S3: matter of seconds and, and it's way more fragile than
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  S3: we ever give it credit for. But God's love upon
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  S3: us and his sustaining grace upon us is everlasting because
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  S3: of the gospel. Yeah. And and it's sad how there
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  S3: are so many who don't realize that.
• 6:37
  S2: So what if you could take off the mask today?
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  S2: What if you could live a life where you've got.
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  S2: Carl likes to say nothing to gain, nothing to lose,
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  S2: nothing to prove where you were so confident in who
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  S2: you were in Christ To that you just lived free.
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  S2: Like picture that like fully. What would that feel like?
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  S2: Taste like if you could live with no masks? Authenticity
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  S2: at its finest. Coming up.
• 7:11
  S1: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 7:15
  S2: You ever been in a power outage?
• 7:18
  S3: Yeah, a bunch.
• 7:19
  S2: Too many Midwest recently. Yeah. I mean, those Northwest Indiana storms. Yeah.
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  S2: Did you lose power?
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  S4: Just very briefly in my subdivision. But much of my
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  S4: city was without power for days. I mean, that was
• 7:32
  S4: like national news. Merrillville with tornadoes. The tornadoes that came
• 7:36
  S4: through and on the cusp there of Hobart, it was
• 7:38
  S4: it was really bad. It still is actually. Wow. Yeah.
• 7:41
  S2: You've been in any sort of extended power outage?
• 7:44
  S3: Oh yeah. Yeah. I remember when I was a kid we,
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  S3: I don't remember what the storm was. It wasn't like
• 7:49
  S3: a tornado or anything, but we had a storm that
• 7:51
  S3: we had power out for a couple of days. So
• 7:53
  S3: we had to get, you know, a generator in the
• 7:55
  S3: sump pump in the basement. Right. Went out. And so
• 7:58
  S3: the water was up to our knees in the basement. And. Oh, boy.
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  S3: So that was fun. It was I, you know, because
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  S3: I was a kid.
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  S2: You were a kid. I was like fun.
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  S3: You put on the the knee high boots. It was
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  S3: an unfinished basement too. Wasn't like it had carpet and
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  S3: all that junk. So it was like a storage area,
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  S3: but putting on the knee high boots and wading through
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  S3: knee high water, it was like, it's in my house
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  S3: and it's water. I was like, this is kind of fun.
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  S3: My parents did not enjoy it as much as I did.
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  S2: Parents are probably like, oh wow, what a fun time.
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  S2: Remember we had water in our basement and we were
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  S2: just wading through with our waders? You know, if you've
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  S2: ever been through a power outage, there's something so precious
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  S2: the emotion you feel when those lights come on.
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  S3: Oh, man. I know you're all sitting there waiting with
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  S3: the candles on the on the tables, waiting for something
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  S3: to pop lights on.
• 8:46
  S2: Your first flicker of like, is it, is it back?
• 8:50
  S3: It's back, it's here.
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  S4: Is it back for good? Is it gonna go off again?
• 8:53
  S2: Now there's, you know, if you depending on your power company,
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  S2: you might get a text message that gives you some
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  S2: sort of a.
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  S3: Yeah. They give you updates on estimates of time.
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  S2: We have received reports the power is out in your area.
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  S2: Expect power to be restored in 48 hours.
• 9:09
  S3: And you're like, great. Thank you.
• 9:10
  S2: You're like, what am I going to do? I just.
• 9:12
  S5: Went to the grocery store.
• 9:13
  S2: And we were talking about power outages recently. Or and
• 9:16
  S2: my mother in law, who grew up in Haiti, and
• 9:20
  S2: she said, you know, she was she was like, you know,
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  S2: people will talk about being without electricity for a couple days.
• 9:26
  S2: And she goes, I spent my first 20 years without electricity.
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  S4: That's crazy.
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  S2: I was like, oh my.
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  S3: It's a different.
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  S2: World. I'm really thinking about that, what that was like.
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  S2: So for her first 20 years of life and my
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  S2: mother in law is 70.
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  S3: So it's yeah, it's not like she was born at
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  S3: a time where there just was no modern electricity.
• 9:45
  S2: But because of the conditions where she was living when
• 9:49
  S2: she grew up, there was, it was very common to
• 9:51
  S2: not have electricity. And and so, you know, all of
• 9:54
  S2: the little things that you think about that you perspective.
• 9:57
  S2: And so she goes, you know, when we would need
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  S2: to do homework and it would get dark, you know,
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  S2: we would maybe go out and find a church or
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  S2: some sort of business that did have power and just
• 10:06
  S2: sit outside and use the light from the, the, the
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  S2: business or the church to be able to do our,
• 10:12
  S2: our schoolwork at night. And, and of course, that's for
• 10:15
  S2: my kids. That sounds like such a foreign.
• 10:17
  S3: Doesn't even make sense to.
• 10:19
  S4: Them. Like little House on the Prairie. Right?
• 10:20
  S2: Basically, you know, light is powerful and it's no coincidence
• 10:26
  S2: that it is such a commonly used metaphor in all
• 10:30
  S2: of Scripture. When we think about the difference between being
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  S2: in the light and being in the dark coming up,
• 10:35
  S2: there's a verse. Boy oh boy. I read this verse
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  S2: a couple weeks ago, and it has just been rattling
• 10:41
  S2: around in my mind ever since, and I find it
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  S2: just keeps coming back to me. I want to take
• 10:45
  S2: you to this verse has to do with light and dark.
• 10:49
  S2: Have you ever looked at somebody who's in darkness spiritually,
• 10:53
  S2: and you kind of had this like, can you get
• 10:55
  S2: it together? Like, can't you just like.
• 10:57
  S3: Yeah, can you see what I see?
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  S2: Can't you see it? Why don't you see it? Why
• 11:01
  S2: don't people see it? Why didn't we see it?
• 11:05
  S3: Because we didn't for a time.
• 11:06
  S2: Until we saw it. That's right. Coming up. I'll take
• 11:09
  S2: you there.
• 11:11
  S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl
• 11:14
  S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
• 11:17
  S2: If you're ever tempted to look at someone's life and
• 11:22
  S2: feel frustrated, man, you've tried to share the gospel with them.
• 11:26
  S2: You've tried to give them the truth, and they just
• 11:30
  S2: seem bent on living in the darkness.
• 11:34
  S3: Spiritually 100%.
• 11:36
  S2: As if they are have their hands in their ears.
• 11:39
  S2: You know, kind of like a little kid like la.
• 11:41
  S6: La la la la. I don't hear you. I don't
• 11:43
  S6: know what I was thinking.
• 11:44
  S3: I mean, think about the message that literally happened in
• 11:48
  S3: the Bible. Yes, I know Stephen's preaching the gospel, and
• 11:50
  S3: they shout so loud and cover their ears so they
• 11:52
  S3: can't hear him anymore.
• 11:53
  S2: Don't want to hear it. And if this is somebody
• 11:56
  S2: who is, who comes to mind to you is somebody
• 11:59
  S2: who's really close to you, somebody who you love deeply.
• 12:02
  S2: There can be so much pain associated with like, why don't,
• 12:06
  S2: why can't you see it? Why can't you see the
• 12:08
  S2: hope that I see? Why can't you live in the
• 12:11
  S2: light of Christ? I want to take you to second
• 12:14
  S2: Corinthians chapter four. And I've just been this verse. These
• 12:18
  S2: couple verses have just been ringing in my ears over
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  S2: these last couple weeks. It starts with, I'm going to
• 12:25
  S2: start with verse three, and I'm going to read this
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  S2: in the New Living Translation, just because I think it's
• 12:29
  S2: a little bit easier when hearing it out loud. Verse
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  S2: three says, if the good news we preach is hidden
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  S2: behind a veil, it is hidden only from people who
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  S2: are perishing. Satan, who is the God of this world,
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  S2: has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They
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  S2: are unable to see the glorious light of the good News.
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  S2: They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ
• 12:51
  S2: who is the exact likeness of God. You see, we
• 12:53
  S2: don't go around preaching about ourselves. We preach that Jesus
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  S2: Christ is Lord and we ourselves are your servants for
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  S2: Jesus sake. Then verse six, this is where I want
• 13:02
  S2: to focus for God, who said, let there be light
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  S2: in the darkness has made this light shine in our hearts,
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  S2: so we could know the glory of God that is
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  S2: seen in the face of Jesus Christ, the God who said,
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  S2: let there be light in the darkness has made this
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  S2: light shine in our hearts, so that we can know
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  S2: the glory of God that is seen in the face
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  S2: of Jesus Christ. So the spiritual reality of what happens
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  S2: in our hearts is compared to Genesis one three, which says, what?
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  S3: And God said, let there be light, and there was light.
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  S2: What. Go back a couple of verses to Genesis one
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  S2: one before God said, let there be light. What was happening?
• 13:53
  S2: What was happening in the earth?
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  S3: So this is Genesis one one and two. In the
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  S3: beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth
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  S3: was without form and void, and darkness was over the
• 14:05
  S3: face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was
• 14:07
  S3: hovering over the face of the waters.
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  S2: So the earth was without form. It was void. Darkness
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  S2: was over the face of the deep. When God said,
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  S2: let there be light was when there started to be
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  S2: some sort of order. So the same way that God said,
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  S2: let there be light in the darkness. And there started
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  S2: to be order in the earth, is the exact comparison
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  S2: to him shining the light into our hearts so that
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  S2: we can know the glory of God. And for some
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  S2: reason that has just been. Are like awe inspiring to
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  S2: me that God shines the light of the gospel into
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  S2: our hearts, and that's how we are able to see him.
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  S2: And until that happens, we are blind to the light.
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  S2: We are blind to the truth that Satan, the God
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  S2: of this world, has blinded the minds of those who
• 15:05
  S2: don't believe. This is back to verse four. They are
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  S2: unable to see the glorious light of the Good News.
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  S2: So instead of feeling frustrated, I know I get it.
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  S2: The prayer that I've been praying is the light into
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  S2: their hearts, Lord.
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  S3: That's it.
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  S2: Like, turn on the lights so that they can see it.
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  S2: Because until he does it, it can't happen.
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  S3: It is only his to do people. You cannot overcome
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  S3: blindness for somebody, and people cannot overcome blindness in and
• 15:38
  S3: of themselves. And I, I you know, I heard this,
• 15:41
  S3: it's not my own thought, but I really loved the
• 15:42
  S3: connection of the verses, just talking about the power of
• 15:45
  S3: Jesus over everything in this world. You read that passage
• 15:48
  S3: from Corinthians, uh, that Satan has blinded the minds of
• 15:52
  S3: the unbelievers. Jesus says this in Luke 418, The Spirit
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  S3: of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed
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  S3: me to proclaim the good news to the poor. He
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  S3: sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovering
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  S3: the sight of the blind, to set liberty on those
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  S3: who are oppressed. Satan's blinded the minds of the unbeliever,
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  S3: but Jesus gives sight to the blind.
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  S2: Yeah. So just think about that today and and pray
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  S2: for God to shine the light of the gospel in
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  S2: someone's heart, someone's specific. Go to second Corinthians four, verse six.
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  S2: And we want to have not a sense of pride,
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  S2: but a sense of real, humble gratitude. God, thank you
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  S2: that you shine the light into my heart just in
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  S2: the same way you said, let there be light in
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  S2: the darkness. You said, let there be light in your
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  S2: heart so that you can see me.
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  S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to cast and Crew.
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  S2: If you were to ask any person, any person, you
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  S2: could go outside, wherever you are in the world right
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  S2: now and ask somebody, would you rather be free or
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  S2: not free? Every person is going to give you the answer.
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  S2: I want to be free in that. I don't want
• 17:06
  S2: to be bound to anyone or anything. I don't want
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  S2: to be beholden to anyone or anything. I certainly don't
• 17:13
  S2: want to be confined into any place. So a lot
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  S2: of times, usually people hold up freedom as a contrast
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  S2: to what? It's not.
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  S3: Very much. Right. Absolutely. And I don't know, you're right.
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  S3: I don't think you'd find a person to say no.
• 17:28
  S3: I think I'd rather be bound up than be free.
• 17:31
  S2: But most people walk around far less free than they
• 17:36
  S2: might imagine. Dean Vander May joining us right now. Would
• 17:40
  S2: you agree? I mean, most people are not free.
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  S7: Most are. And if you ask anyone, how are you doing?
• 17:48
  S7: What do they say?
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  S2: Fine.
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  S7: I'm fine.
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  S2: Fine.
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  S7: Maybe not. So, yeah, the answers we say is we're fine.
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  S7: And the fact is, most of us are not. And
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  S7: we don't even know why not. And that's because we
• 18:05
  S7: don't know the truth that sets us free. So yeah,
• 18:07
  S7: truth matters. It matters a lot.
• 18:10
  S2: Dean Vander May. With us, he's the executive director of
• 18:12
  S2: Set Free. He is renowned worldwide for his expertise in
• 18:17
  S2: helping individuals through the process of finding freedom. Talk a
• 18:21
  S2: little bit more about this ministry because this is this
• 18:24
  S2: is unique. You walk a thousand plus people a year
• 18:30
  S2: through this freedom process. Tell me a little bit about it.
• 18:33
  S7: Yeah. So Set Free started 30 years ago, and it
• 18:36
  S7: started with a Vietnam vet who was suicidal. And he
• 18:39
  S7: had 30 years of post-traumatic stress and he was bound
• 18:43
  S7: by the past, bound by the things that had happened
• 18:46
  S7: to him and the things he had done. And he
• 18:48
  S7: wasn't free because he was filled with shame and guilt
• 18:51
  S7: from the enemy and even from his own, his own conscience.
• 18:55
  S7: And we just let him through the process about confessing
• 18:58
  S7: and repenting. If we confess our sins, God is faithful
• 19:01
  S7: and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us
• 19:03
  S7: from all unrighteousness. And James 516, it says, if we
• 19:07
  S7: confess our sins to another, we get healed. And so
• 19:10
  S7: what happens is that's a true statement. And God is saying,
• 19:14
  S7: just bring me your stuff, bring me your sin that
• 19:17
  S7: you have that you're holding, or that has been done
• 19:19
  S7: to you. And I. I will take it because it's
• 19:22
  S7: already bought and paid for. Jesus has paid the price.
• 19:25
  S7: So the simplicity of it, we do this all over
• 19:27
  S7: the world now. Uh, Pakistan, Ethiopia, Uganda. We're right now
• 19:33
  S7: in Nigeria helping, uh, 500, 000 Nigerian pastors, pastors in
• 19:38
  S7: their members. So we got a lot going on and
• 19:41
  S7: it's amazing what God is doing. So it's it's actually
• 19:44
  S7: invigorating to see what God is doing.
• 19:47
  S2: How do you get into this kind of work ministry?
• 19:50
  S2: Give me a little bit of your own story.
• 19:53
  S7: Uh, I'm I'm a former captive, uh, hurt and angry
• 19:58
  S7: as a young boy, uh, got into, uh, pornography at
• 20:02
  S7: age of ten, third grade. Uh, I, I, I went
• 20:05
  S7: to church twice a Sunday, and I went to a
• 20:07
  S7: Christian school, uh, every, uh, from age kindergarten all the
• 20:12
  S7: way through age 12. But I was, uh, I was angry, hurt,
• 20:16
  S7: and I was astray. And when I started seeing my
• 20:20
  S7: friends die, uh, drug overdoses, uh, suicides, car crashes, usually
• 20:26
  S7: drug and alcohol related. I understood I was in trouble,
• 20:30
  S7: and I started crying out to God. I'm like, God,
• 20:32
  S7: I'm next, and I and I should be dead. My,
• 20:35
  S7: a lot of my friends are dead, and I should be.
• 20:37
  S7: But he spared my life for a reason. And I'm
• 20:40
  S7: starting to understand. I'm 67 now, so that was 50
• 20:43
  S7: years ago. I'm starting to understand now why? Because I
• 20:47
  S7: understand bondage and I understand freedom. So I love preaching
• 20:51
  S7: in prisons because I know, I know those fellows rather
• 20:55
  S7: well because it could have been me.
• 20:57
  S2: The mission statement for set free. Setting captives free to
• 21:01
  S2: live as who they were created to be in Christ.
• 21:04
  S2: You know, we I started this by talking about how
• 21:07
  S2: for most people, freedom is the absence of anyone or
• 21:11
  S2: anything controlling me. And so I don't want to have
• 21:15
  S2: anyone be the boss of me. And so when we
• 21:18
  S2: start talking about real freedom being found in dependence on Christ,
• 21:23
  S2: for a lot of people, that's a tough one because
• 21:25
  S2: they don't want to be dependent on anyone.
• 21:28
  S7: MM. Sounds like Adam and Eve. They were completely dependent
• 21:34
  S7: upon God. And then Satan comes along and says, hey,
• 21:37
  S7: I got a new way. Independence. Choose your own way.
• 21:42
  S7: Proverbs 1412. All of the man's ways will seem right
• 21:46
  S7: to him. His ways will end in death. Not maybe
• 21:50
  S7: it will. So us left to ourselves, we will destroy ourselves.
• 21:54
  S7: And it doesn't matter what we think or feel. Well,
• 21:57
  S7: I don't feel that way. Well, you can feel any
• 22:00
  S7: way you want. But if you walk contrary to God's ways,
• 22:03
  S7: you have chosen a path of death. That's just reality.
• 22:06
  S7: So truth is very important here, and it's the only
• 22:09
  S7: way to get free. And God understood Adam and Eve
• 22:12
  S7: and said, hey, I've made a way for us to
• 22:14
  S7: be reconciled through atonement. And he offered that to Adam
• 22:18
  S7: and Eve, and they were atoned for. They paid a
• 22:22
  S7: heavy price for their sin, and they were. You can
• 22:24
  S7: choose to sin. You don't get to choose the consequence.
• 22:27
  S7: But there's still forgiveness. So God obviously forgave them. And
• 22:32
  S7: it was interesting in Genesis three says he wrapped him
• 22:34
  S7: with a. He wrapped them both with a tunic of skin,
• 22:38
  S7: which requires a blood sacrifice. Interesting, because it was the
• 22:42
  S7: sacrifice of Jesus and His blood that saved us all
• 22:46
  S7: from sin. And so that was a precursor. And really,
• 22:49
  S7: God letting everyone know that there's a way out. And
• 22:53
  S7: he actually said that to Satan, out of this woman
• 22:56
  S7: will come my seed. That will crush your head, I promise.
• 23:00
  S7: So that was, uh, that was a prophecy. The first
• 23:03
  S7: prophecy in the scriptures was God telling Satan, uh, my,
• 23:07
  S7: I have a plan to destroy you, and I will.
• 23:10
  S2: Oh, Dean Vander may set free ministries. You know, you
• 23:13
  S2: mentioned these freedom appointments when people set up an appointment
• 23:18
  S2: and they want to be they're submitting themselves to this
• 23:21
  S2: process to be walked through. I want to be free.
• 23:25
  S2: Are is everyone that you encounter not a believer, or
• 23:30
  S2: do you encounter genuine followers of Christ who are simply
• 23:35
  S2: not as free as they could be?
• 23:37
  S7: We. We have both. I let a warlock to Christ. Uh, after, uh,
• 23:44
  S7: one of his, uh, underlings got away by coming to
• 23:47
  S7: set free, and he was ticked. So he came here
• 23:50
  S7: to talk about how she got away, and it wasn't possible.
• 23:53
  S7: And I said, but our God is more powerful than
• 23:55
  S7: the one you serve. And we spent four hours using
• 23:59
  S7: the scriptures, and he accepted Christ four hours later, and
• 24:02
  S7: he was a Satanist. So that man came in fully,
• 24:06
  S7: fully thinking Satan was the Lord. And he understood later
• 24:10
  S7: that he wasn't. So we have we have pagans come in,
• 24:13
  S7: we have, uh, religious people come in who have been
• 24:16
  S7: in church all their life, and they might have never
• 24:19
  S7: understood that the Holy Spirit is the one that quickens them. And,
• 24:23
  S7: and oftentimes they understand that, uh, they, they, uh, they
• 24:27
  S7: were religious but unsaved. And then we have saved people
• 24:30
  S7: who have gone astray. King David was saved, but he
• 24:33
  S7: went astray and he paid a heavy, heavy price. Uh,
• 24:37
  S7: he paid a heavy price for his, uh, his adultery
• 24:40
  S7: and for, uh, his blood shed innocent blood. And so
• 24:44
  S7: the Lord. Psalm 51, uh, he, he not only set
• 24:48
  S7: him free and cleansed and washed him, but he says,
• 24:50
  S7: then I will teach sinners in your ways. King David said.
• 24:54
  S7: So he used him later on in life to help others.
• 24:57
  S7: And I would say that's a part of my testimony,
• 24:59
  S7: is I'm more like a King David who went astray.
• 25:02
  S7: And then the Lord, uh, whom the Lord loves, he scourges,
• 25:05
  S7: he will discipline. And some of the listeners right now
• 25:08
  S7: are under the Lord's discipline. And he loves you, but
• 25:11
  S7: he also wants you to return, which is repentance. And
• 25:15
  S7: those are one of the that's one of the things
• 25:17
  S7: that we've kind of lost in, uh, the Protestant movement
• 25:21
  S7: is we don't know quite how to confess and repent.
• 25:24
  S7: And so, uh, we know that Jesus and his disciples
• 25:28
  S7: talked about it all the time. So we're just going
• 25:30
  S7: back to the early church looking at what they were
• 25:33
  S7: doing and say, let's just follow the ways of Jesus
• 25:35
  S7: and the apostles. That's what we're doing.
• 25:37
  S2: Yeah. Speak to that repentance piece a little bit more
• 25:39
  S2: because I know you said that there's no we cannot
• 25:42
  S2: be dependent on God and therefore free until we are
• 25:45
  S2: repentant before God.
• 25:47
  S7: Yeah. So Proverbs three five and six, my dad's favorite
• 25:51
  S7: verse in his Bible, he underlined it, said best verse
• 25:53
  S7: in the whole Bible. Here's what it says. Trust in
• 25:55
  S7: the Lord with all your heart. Do not lean on
• 25:58
  S7: your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him. He
• 26:01
  S7: will make your paths straight. So what happens is humans,
• 26:04
  S7: we make our own paths and we choose our own courses,
• 26:08
  S7: which will lead us astray and we will end up lost.
• 26:12
  S7: And then God says, search for the lost, bring back
• 26:15
  S7: the strays. That's what Jesus was doing when he was
• 26:17
  S7: here searching for for those who had gone their own way.
• 26:21
  S7: And so repentance is required to come back to truth,
• 26:24
  S7: and truth will set you free. And that's, that's what
• 26:27
  S7: Jesus was talking about when he was here. He says,
• 26:29
  S7: you've lost your way. And remember, a lot of the
• 26:32
  S7: people he was talking to were very religious people who
• 26:35
  S7: were are in the synagogue weekly. Some of the Pharisees
• 26:39
  S7: knew the Bible very well. They had memorized it. And
• 26:41
  S7: he says, you don't know my father. So you can
• 26:44
  S7: be religious and unsaved. And that happens a lot in
• 26:48
  S7: the world today, where people think they're walking in Christianity,
• 26:51
  S7: but they're really in apostasy. There's a lot of apostasy
• 26:55
  S7: today in the church. So unless we're going to go
• 26:58
  S7: back to truth, truth will set us free. But the
• 27:02
  S7: only way to get back to truth is to repent
• 27:04
  S7: from the error of your own way.
• 27:06
  S2: When people walk out of these freedom appointments, because obviously
• 27:10
  S2: this is you're simply helping people apply the Word of God. Uh,
• 27:15
  S2: what does freedom look like after this appointment?
• 27:19
  S7: Tears of joy. Accountants changed. Weeping with joy. And the question,
• 27:27
  S7: the question I've heard a thousand times. Why don't they
• 27:31
  S7: teach this?
• 27:31
  S2: What do you think is meant by that? Why don't.
• 27:33
  S2: Who's they? And what's this?
• 27:35
  S7: They is. Why aren't they teaching this in the churches?
• 27:40
  S7: Why aren't they teaching about spiritual warfare? Why aren't they
• 27:43
  S7: teaching us about the enemies and its tactics? Why aren't
• 27:46
  S7: they teaching us who who we are in Christ, our
• 27:48
  S7: true identity? Why don't they teach this? So Neil Anderson
• 27:52
  S7: is the guy that kind of came up with the
• 27:53
  S7: steps to freedom, and he was a seminary professor, and
• 27:57
  S7: he's the one that came up with the process. And
• 27:59
  S7: it was for the pastors who were going to be
• 28:02
  S7: the pastors the next year. And he said, Dean, most
• 28:05
  S7: of the men that I was going to ordain as
• 28:08
  S7: pastors were biblically unfit because of Timothy and, and Titus
• 28:14
  S7: characteristic traits. He says they were they were in the porn,
• 28:17
  S7: they were drinking, they were carousing, and they were very
• 28:20
  S7: bright students who got all A's. And so oftentimes, just
• 28:24
  S7: because we think we know the truth, because we can
• 28:27
  S7: memorize it, doesn't mean we're walking in it. And so
• 28:30
  S7: repentance is actually a heart posture to God and saying, God,
• 28:35
  S7: I want to return to you. Spirit, soul and body,
• 28:38
  S7: and I want to repent and walk in your ways.
• 28:41
  S7: I am done with my ways. And so it's quite
• 28:44
  S7: beautiful to watch someone actually transform in front of you.
• 28:48
  S7: You actually get to watch it. It's it's quite something,
• 28:51
  S7: I bet.
• 28:52
  S2: I bet that never gets old.
• 28:54
  S7: Uh, it doesn't. In fact, I owned a business and
• 28:57
  S7: I ran it for 23 years. And I started doing
• 29:01
  S7: this with the people in my business. And I ended
• 29:03
  S7: up selling my business. I'm like, I want to do
• 29:06
  S7: this the rest of my life. So I sold it
• 29:08
  S7: 39 and now I do this.
• 29:10
  S2: So you wait, so you started doing this process with
• 29:14
  S2: the people in your business?
• 29:15
  S7: Yes. I had a, a satanic, ritually abused person working
• 29:21
  S7: in my company. I did not know that. And, and
• 29:25
  S7: we were trying to help her. And I had hired
• 29:27
  S7: a chaplain for the people in my company because I
• 29:29
  S7: wanted them to experience and know God's way. So we
• 29:32
  S7: had a chaplain and the chaplain said, hey, we got
• 29:35
  S7: someone here that's been horrifically abused as a child. We're
• 29:38
  S7: going to need help. And we called all over to
• 29:41
  S7: focus on the family and all over the U.S. and
• 29:43
  S7: we started learning about SRE abuse. And that's when I
• 29:46
  S7: got in pretty deep and understanding that there's a real
• 29:50
  S7: satanic agenda to destroy the church and to destroy the people.
• 29:54
  S7: And I was not aware of that until I started
• 29:56
  S7: helping people out of that.
• 29:59
  S2: Dean Vanderhei, our guest. We have resources for you. If
• 30:02
  S2: you want to learn more about this ministry, these freedom appointments,
• 30:05
  S2: just text free to (800) 555-7898, text free to (800) 555-7898.
• 30:15
  S1: She was trying to earn her way to God, but
• 30:18
  S1: God showed her she didn't have to. Ali is in
• 30:22
  S1: the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 30:25
  S2: Well, whether you see it on a t shirt or
• 30:28
  S2: on a graphic on social media, there are so many
• 30:31
  S2: of those little pithy statements, they sound very empowering. But
• 30:37
  S2: are they true? We always want to hold up everything
• 30:41
  S2: up to the lens of Scripture and say, does this
• 30:43
  S2: line up? I know the guest joining me right now
• 30:47
  S2: agrees wholeheartedly. Becky Beresford's joining us, author of She Believed
• 30:52
  S2: He could. So she did a little bit of a
• 30:55
  S2: twist on some of the popular sayings. What are some
• 30:58
  S2: of the sayings that you see that maybe you most
• 31:01
  S2: take issue with?
• 31:03
  S8: Yeah, there are a lot and they're very like subtle.
• 31:06
  S8: So they sound very good. But are they actually in
• 31:09
  S8: the Bible? Um, and so one of the big ones
• 31:12
  S8: is you are enough. Yes. I've gotten a lot of
• 31:15
  S8: pushback on that when I'm like, but is that actually
• 31:18
  S8: in scripture? Uh, another one is believe in yourself. Follow
• 31:23
  S8: your heart. You can do hard things. The future is female.
• 31:26
  S8: Speak your truth. Just all the different little phrases that
• 31:31
  S8: sound nice, but they take Jesus out of the equation,
• 31:36
  S8: which makes it not gospel truth.
• 31:39
  S2: Yeah, she believed he could, so she did. Trading cultures
• 31:43
  S2: lies for Christ centered empowerment. That's the name of the book. Becky,
• 31:46
  S2: you used to believe and even promote some of these statements.
• 31:50
  S2: Give me a little bit of your own history.
• 31:53
  S8: Yeah. So this this book came from major pain points
• 31:56
  S8: in my life when basically I was trying to be
• 31:59
  S8: the savior of my story. My husband and I were
• 32:02
  S8: going through a very hard time severe marital problems. We
• 32:07
  S8: are a special needs family as well. And so our
• 32:09
  S8: oldest son is autistic, and I basically felt like I
• 32:13
  S8: was failing him, not able to help him thrive in
• 32:16
  S8: the ways he needed it. And I also my other
• 32:18
  S8: two sons as well. And we had all this, you know,
• 32:22
  S8: just different stuff going on in our life that made
• 32:24
  S8: me feel like a failure in all ways, including my calling,
• 32:27
  S8: because I was also pitching this other totally different book
• 32:29
  S8: and I was getting rejection after rejection. Um, and so
• 32:34
  S8: I used to say those, those lies because they sound nice. Um,
• 32:39
  S8: but when I looked in the mirror and I tried
• 32:42
  S8: to believe that I could, it didn't matter how many
• 32:45
  S8: times I said it, I didn't feel like I could
• 32:48
  S8: be enough. I didn't feel like I had that power
• 32:51
  S8: within me to be not only the savior of my story,
• 32:54
  S8: but like all my loved ones. And so God had
• 32:58
  S8: to bring me to a point, actually, with a sign
• 33:00
  S8: that said she believed she could. So she did. Um,
• 33:03
  S8: my husband had bought that for me as an encouragement
• 33:06
  S8: so that I wouldn't really give up on my writing dreams.
• 33:09
  S8: And so I would put that sign on my writing
• 33:11
  S8: desk anytime I would sit down to write. And there
• 33:14
  S8: came a day where I was just so down and
• 33:17
  S8: looking at it and I'm like, I don't think I can.
• 33:19
  S8: God and the Holy Spirit stepped in and said, that's
• 33:23
  S8: the point. Like, you can't be the savior of your story.
• 33:27
  S8: You are not enough on your own. This is why
• 33:30
  S8: Jesus came, because we can't do it by ourselves. And
• 33:33
  S8: so I just took a permanent marker out, and I
• 33:36
  S8: took that sign and I crossed off the s on it.
• 33:39
  S8: So it read. She believed he could. So she did.
• 33:42
  S8: And I'm like, that's the message of the gospel because
• 33:46
  S8: society wants us to focus on self, but Jesus wants
• 33:50
  S8: us to focus on him. And it's a message of freedom.
• 33:54
  S8: When we let go of that pressure to be the
• 33:56
  S8: Savior and let him do his job.
• 33:58
  S2: Yeah. You know, it's, it's so relatable because, you know,
• 34:03
  S2: I can obviously as a woman, I can, I can
• 34:06
  S2: speak to a lot of the same struggles and the
• 34:09
  S2: identity piece, the, the desire to be, I mean, I
• 34:12
  S2: want to be a strong, confident woman. I've got a daughter.
• 34:16
  S2: I want to raise a strong, confident woman. But sometimes
• 34:19
  S2: the ways that we're encouraged to go about bringing about
• 34:22
  S2: that end result are very self-focused. Yeah. Speak to the.
• 34:28
  S2: For many people, it starts with the. You feel worthless
• 34:32
  S2: and so assigning something that gives you worth feels really
• 34:37
  S2: good until it kind of circles back and it begins
• 34:40
  S2: and ends with me.
• 34:42
  S8: Yeah. And ultimately, like the enemy plays on this. Yeah.
• 34:47
  S8: Because when we fail, which we will, because we're imperfect
• 34:50
  S8: and no one can be the savior, no one can
• 34:54
  S8: do it. He knows that. Satan knows that. So he
• 34:57
  S8: steps in. And then when we start to feel that, like, oh, man, I'm,
• 35:01
  S8: I'm a horrible person. I'm a failure as a wife.
• 35:04
  S8: That's what I kept saying to myself. I'm a failure
• 35:06
  S8: as a mom. The enemy steps in, and then he
• 35:09
  S8: shames us into these little corners to try to get
• 35:12
  S8: us to stay there. Because the second that we say,
• 35:15
  S8: you know what? Like I'm going to admit my weakness.
• 35:18
  S8: You know how Paul talks about boasting in it? Yeah,
• 35:20
  S8: I'm going to admit it and say it's okay. I
• 35:23
  S8: actually don't have to be enough. I don't have to
• 35:25
  S8: meet these standards because Christ has already done that for me,
• 35:30
  S8: so I can embrace that. And when when we do that,
• 35:33
  S8: it releases the shame and we can step out and
• 35:36
  S8: be like. And Christ will empower me to do what
• 35:39
  S8: he wants me to do. He's going to transform my heart,
• 35:42
  S8: my thoughts. He's going to comfort me with the truth
• 35:44
  S8: that I'm still accepted, that there's grace that covers every
• 35:48
  S8: sin as I believe in him. Like it. It totally
• 35:52
  S8: stops the enemy schemes in his track. Um, and so
• 35:57
  S8: it's a message of freedom too, from the enemy's attacks
• 35:59
  S8: as well.
• 36:00
  S2: Yeah. What did that journey look like for you when
• 36:03
  S2: you had that recognition of. Okay, no, I've, I've been
• 36:06
  S2: looking at this all wrong. What did the journey to
• 36:09
  S2: real God empowerment and not self-empowerment look like?
• 36:15
  S8: Honestly, it was kind of a step by step. But
• 36:19
  S8: what really just opened my eyes to it is I
• 36:22
  S8: took that sign and I just shared it on Instagram.
• 36:26
  S8: just I'm like, oh, look at this cool thing that
• 36:28
  S8: God taught me. And the response that I got from
• 36:31
  S8: women made me realize, like, I am not alone in
• 36:35
  S8: thinking this kind of like what you were saying, Ali.
• 36:38
  S8: Like we can all resonate with this, that we, we
• 36:40
  S8: look at what society continues to pour out. And it's
• 36:44
  S8: not just culture, it's also in our Christian circles.
• 36:48
  S2: What do you mean? What do you mean by that?
• 36:51
  S8: So actually the sign, the she believed she could. So
• 36:53
  S8: she did. My husband bought it from a Christian bookstore.
• 36:57
  S2: Mhm. Wow.
• 36:58
  S8: So we we focus on these things that sound good again.
• 37:03
  S8: But if Jesus is taken out of it, even a
• 37:07
  S8: half truth is a total untruth. It becomes something that
• 37:11
  S8: is tied to us and what we can do. And
• 37:14
  S8: it almost becomes like this works based mentality where I'm
• 37:19
  S8: trying to earn my worth, earn approval, earn love, earn
• 37:23
  S8: my status. And so again, it's all dependent on me,
• 37:26
  S8: which puts all the responsibility on me. And so when
• 37:32
  S8: I saw that so many women were feeling this way,
• 37:36
  S8: I said, I wonder if if we came together and
• 37:40
  S8: I wrote something on this, what, what would be, what
• 37:43
  S8: would God do out of it? And it's just really
• 37:45
  S8: cool because having that communal, um, affirmation that, yeah, this
• 37:50
  S8: is not in scripture. And when we put Jesus back
• 37:53
  S8: at the center, you know, it's a freedom message for
• 37:57
  S8: all of us. And so I just started walking it
• 37:59
  S8: out in different areas of my life, especially with my marriage. Um, I,
• 38:04
  S8: I was like, okay, I can't be the savior of
• 38:07
  S8: my husband. Just like he can't be the savior of me.
• 38:09
  S8: And that's okay. I release him to, to you, God.
• 38:13
  S8: I can't be the savior of my kids. I'm not
• 38:15
  S8: always going to be there for them. They're going to
• 38:17
  S8: move out of the house. They're going to we're not
• 38:19
  S8: going to be in physical proximity all the time. So
• 38:22
  S8: I have to trust them to you, Lord. You are
• 38:24
  S8: their Savior, I am not. And so it became really
• 38:27
  S8: beautiful and be able to release my loved ones to them.
• 38:31
  S8: And that's been the biggest thing for me in my relationships.
• 38:34
  S8: Just allowing Jesus to do his job and not try
• 38:37
  S8: to take it on to be the helper when the
• 38:40
  S8: helper is the Holy Spirit. And he's he's got it covered.
• 38:42
  S2: Yeah. We have Becky Beresford with us. The book is called.
• 38:47
  S2: She Believed he could. So she did. You know, we
• 38:50
  S2: talk a lot about the high ridge here on Carl
• 38:54
  S2: and crew. And it's easy to fall off on both sides.
• 38:57
  S2: So the the, the kind of the you're not or
• 39:00
  S2: the I'm enough. You can fall off on one side
• 39:03
  S2: of it where all of the pressures on me and
• 39:06
  S2: I have to save everyone and I have to make
• 39:08
  S2: my life perfect. But then you can almost fall off
• 39:11
  S2: on the other side. And I've seen a movement of
• 39:14
  S2: this as well, where it's sort of like everything's messy.
• 39:17
  S2: I'm not okay, you're not okay, and it's okay, but
• 39:20
  S2: it's sort of like where we can almost revel in
• 39:24
  S2: the in sin, if we're not careful where. We're not
• 39:27
  S2: holding up truth as the kind of the. The place
• 39:31
  S2: to land. It's sort of like what anything goes. You
• 39:34
  S2: get where I'm going this. Have you have you seen this,
• 39:37
  S2: this kind of falling off the other side of it?
• 39:39
  S8: Yeah. The pendulum swings.
• 39:41
  S2: Yes.
• 39:42
  S8: From one end to the other. Yeah. And then it
• 39:44
  S8: becomes this sort of. Yeah. Like you said, you're almost
• 39:48
  S8: wallowing in my imperfections. Yes. And Jesus, when he came
• 39:53
  S8: and met sinners, he didn't leave them there. Like their
• 39:58
  S8: lives were transformed to become more like Christ. So in
• 40:02
  S8: admitting our weaknesses, like you think about Paul, he had
• 40:05
  S8: a lot. He admitted it, but then he let the
• 40:08
  S8: Lord transform him as he abided with him as he was,
• 40:12
  S8: was connected to him, communed with him. So there's a
• 40:17
  S8: an acknowledgment of this is what I'm struggling with. These
• 40:20
  S8: are the sins that are just so hard for me
• 40:23
  S8: to to push back against. Uh, God, I need you
• 40:27
  S8: in these X, Y, z areas. And then we have
• 40:30
  S8: to have open hands and surrender our hearts to the
• 40:33
  S8: Lord and let him do his work, because ultimately, he
• 40:37
  S8: wants to change us to be more like Jesus. I'm
• 40:40
  S8: not meant to stay in this state. I'm meant to
• 40:44
  S8: walk with Christ and become like him.
• 40:47
  S2: Beautiful. Thank you so much for the conversation this morning.
• 40:50
  S2: If you are listening and you want more on this resource,
• 40:54
  S2: just text believe to (800) 555-7898, text believe 805 557898.
• 41:04
  S1: Standing on the rock each and every day you're listening
• 41:08
  S1: to Carl and crew.
• 41:10
  S2: We've been talking all this week about freedom. Freedom comes
• 41:14
  S2: from dependence. Ironically, I know we are about to sell
• 41:18
  S2: celebrate America 250 Independence Day is what it's called. But
• 41:22
  S2: dependence on God when we're talking about our spiritual life,
• 41:25
  S2: is the absolute only path to freedom. We're going to
• 41:30
  S2: prove it coming up. If you if your ministry is
• 41:33
  S2: called Set Free. This is the week to have you on.
• 41:37
  S1: Start your day moving closer to Jesus. You're listening to
• 41:41
  S1: Carl and crew.
• 41:43
  S2: What does it look like to live life beyond the
• 41:46
  S2: mask where you're not putting on for other people? You're
• 41:51
  S2: not putting on for God. True Face Ministries for 30
• 41:56
  S2: years has equipped people to discover the joy and peace
• 41:59
  S2: of living beyond the mask and building trust in God
• 42:02
  S2: and others. We have Ben Crenshaw with us this morning.
• 42:05
  S2: He is the director of member engagement for True Face.
• 42:08
  S2: Give us a little bit of the story behind this mission.
• 42:12
  S2: It's got a very. This ministry has a very aspirational mission.
• 42:16
  S2: And everybody would go, well, I want a piece of that.
• 42:19
  S9: It is such an aspirational mission. Part of our passion
• 42:22
  S9: is just helping stuck Christians get unstuck. And how do
• 42:26
  S9: we do that? How do we usher people out of
• 42:28
  S9: living in this room of good intentions into the joy
• 42:31
  S9: and peace of the original good news? That's what true
• 42:33
  S9: faith is all about.
• 42:35
  S2: What gets Christians stuck?
• 42:37
  S9: Well, I think a lot of times, and this is
• 42:40
  S9: not everybody, but a lot of Christians, it's this performance treadmill, right?
• 42:44
  S9: It's this formula of I call it the CMDb formula.
• 42:48
  S9: No more do better that that's based out of fear
• 42:51
  S9: and control. That that's what I can do. You know,
• 42:53
  S9: Galatians three three, after beginning by means of the spirit,
• 42:56
  S9: are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?
• 42:59
  S9: It's just what we do. We just veer back to
• 43:01
  S9: trying to do things on our own and control things
• 43:04
  S9: on our own. That's how we get stuck.
• 43:06
  S2: Has this been a is this personal for you? I mean,
• 43:09
  S2: I know that every person who's a part of this
• 43:11
  S2: ministry has a their own unique connection to it. But
• 43:15
  S2: how did you how were you living with a kind
• 43:18
  S2: of a as you said, KMDB? No more do better approach.
• 43:23
  S9: Oh, is it ever personal to me? Yes. So I
• 43:26
  S9: don't know if you remember the 2000 movie Gladiator with
• 43:29
  S9: Russell Crowe and Joaquin Phoenix played the Emperor, and he
• 43:32
  S9: would come out with his thumb to the to the
• 43:34
  S9: side trying to decide the fate of the Gladiator. That's
• 43:37
  S9: that was my view of God growing up. But I
• 43:39
  S9: always was aware of things that I shouldn't be doing
• 43:42
  S9: and wasn't doing. So it was kind of always a
• 43:44
  S9: thumbs down. Well, when I turned my life, you know,
• 43:47
  S9: gave my life to Christ at 18 years old, I changed.
• 43:49
  S9: But my view of God didn't. So I was just
• 43:52
  S9: knowing more, doing better, more and more and more trying
• 43:55
  S9: to earn God's approval. And that was my view of
• 43:58
  S9: him growing up.
• 43:59
  S2: So many people can relate to that. And what are
• 44:03
  S2: some of the practical ways that you help people kind
• 44:06
  S2: of that mean that that tagline I started with, what
• 44:08
  S2: if God isn't who you think he is and neither
• 44:10
  S2: are you.
• 44:11
  S9: So I always like to connect identity and theology, right?
• 44:15
  S9: Our view of God, the Creator, is always connected to
• 44:18
  S9: our view of ourselves, the created. So when that was
• 44:21
  S9: my view of God, then my view of myself, which
• 44:24
  S9: is why we. We say we wear the mask, right?
• 44:26
  S9: Was I'm all I have to perform more, do better.
• 44:30
  S9: And I'm always coming up short. So therefore I'm always,
• 44:33
  S9: you know, just he's always low grade disappointed in me,
• 44:37
  S9: but I, I was a part of a Bible study
• 44:39
  S9: on the book of Romans learning a lot about identity.
• 44:42
  S9: And therefore they were always connected. My view of God,
• 44:45
  S9: my view of God's view of me. So sometimes when
• 44:48
  S9: I'm working with, with people is I'll just put up
• 44:51
  S9: some emojis. When you think about God looking at you,
• 44:53
  S9: which emoji is it? Is it the frowny face? Is
• 44:56
  S9: his face over his hand, you know, disappointed, shaking his head.
• 44:59
  S9: We really have to start with how do you believe
• 45:02
  S9: God looks at you? And then we start looking at
• 45:05
  S9: your identity after that.
• 45:07
  S2: Okay, so I love the emoji thing because that really
• 45:10
  S2: brings it into focus because you can picture so clearly,
• 45:13
  S2: you probably, if you have an iPhone, maybe Android does
• 45:16
  S2: this too, but it suggests for you. It has right
• 45:19
  S2: up front for you the ones that you go to
• 45:22
  S2: most often. So for me, it's like the sideways crying,
• 45:24
  S2: laughing face and probably the palm to the forehead are
• 45:28
  S2: probably some of my most commonly used emojis, but it's
• 45:31
  S2: very easy for me to picture that. I think I
• 45:34
  S2: think of God as sort of like the often disappointed, like,
• 45:38
  S2: couldn't you like, don't you know better by now? Like, like,
• 45:41
  S2: come on, Ali, why can't you get it together?
• 45:44
  S9: Right, right. Absolutely. I was going to go do a
• 45:48
  S9: training in Texas. I was at the airport. They have
• 45:51
  S9: three emojis you could click on in the bathroom just
• 45:53
  S9: to rate. How clean is the bathroom? You know, happy,
• 45:56
  S9: sad or like in between. And I was like that
• 45:59
  S9: right there sometimes is our view of God. Is God
• 46:02
  S9: happy with me? Is he sad with me? Or is
• 46:04
  S9: it may somewhere in the middle? And you know, we
• 46:07
  S9: don't realize this a lot of times, just this constant
• 46:12
  S9: feeling like he is a low grade, disappointed dad. We
• 46:15
  S9: are a disappointment to him. And therefore we're always walking
• 46:19
  S9: around just kind of. Frustrated in ourselves and assuming he's
• 46:22
  S9: frustrated with us.
• 46:23
  S2: You know, we talk a lot about the high ridge
• 46:26
  S2: here because you can you can fall off on the
• 46:29
  S2: other side and go, there's a lot of people who
• 46:32
  S2: want to believe that God approves of anything that I
• 46:35
  S2: happen to do, that God wants to bless me. And
• 46:37
  S2: of course, God wants to bless us. The bad theology
• 46:41
  S2: that sometimes people can be tempted to embrace in response
• 46:45
  S2: to viewing God as angry and always disappointed. We can
• 46:49
  S2: fall off the other side of the high ridge and go, well,
• 46:52
  S2: God must always be happy with absolutely everything I do. Therefore,
• 46:55
  S2: I can live however I want and just kind of
• 46:57
  S2: got asked God to give me the green stamp and
• 46:59
  S2: the smile because he loves me so he must love
• 47:02
  S2: everything I do speak to that.
• 47:03
  S9: Yes, we kind of use that metaphor when it comes to,
• 47:07
  S9: let's say, a rock face. In some ways we live
• 47:11
  S9: and this is the way I live. White knuckling, straining.
• 47:14
  S9: It's on me. I'm going to know more. Do better.
• 47:16
  S9: Climb the wall by myself. The scalars. Then we have
• 47:19
  S9: what we call the settlers. This is living in the
• 47:21
  S9: field of passivity, which is I'm not going to try anything.
• 47:24
  S9: I'm just going to receive God's love and not do
• 47:26
  S9: it at all. But there is this middle way, which
• 47:29
  S9: is what we call walking into the cave, which is
• 47:32
  S9: trusting him into the darkness of the cave, trusting the
• 47:35
  S9: Lord with all your heart. Lean not on your own understanding.
• 47:37
  S9: Your word is a lamp unto my feet, a light
• 47:39
  S9: unto my path. You know I may not be able
• 47:41
  S9: to see very far, but I can trust you for
• 47:44
  S9: the next step. It's the fruit of the. It's the
• 47:47
  S9: fruit of the spirit, not the fruit of Benjamin. So
• 47:50
  S9: I am following you, trusting you with my next step,
• 47:53
  S9: abiding in you and and following you for what? Knowing
• 47:57
  S9: that you're the great Shepherd. You. You know what's best
• 47:59
  S9: for me. So it really is this middle way, which
• 48:03
  S9: is simpler, but that doesn't mean it's easier.
• 48:05
  S2: Right, right. Totally. You know, and I would imagine that
• 48:10
  S2: based on hearing as you're talking, that it starts with
• 48:13
  S2: trusting God and trusting his approval of us and living
• 48:17
  S2: from that. But what about other people? Because a lot
• 48:19
  S2: of times we for sure, we put on the mask
• 48:22
  S2: for God, but we can start to take it off
• 48:24
  S2: and be who we really are for God, but still
• 48:26
  S2: put it back on when it comes to other people.
• 48:29
  S2: Because we don't really trust. We can trust the shepherd.
• 48:31
  S2: But boy oh boy, I don't know about those sheep.
• 48:33
  S9: Right? We've been to sheep bitten, right? Yes, I totally
• 48:36
  S9: get that. There was, I think, a time for me.
• 48:39
  S9: God and I were good. It was just other people
• 48:41
  S9: I had a problem with because I had trusted them
• 48:43
  S9: and gotten hurt. Right. But to start with our identity,
• 48:46
  S9: to know I'm a love son of King Jesus. And
• 48:49
  S9: you know, I therefore am fully loved and accepted as
• 48:53
  S9: I am, then I can take the mask off and
• 48:55
  S9: I can step into a relationship with other people knowing that,
• 49:00
  S9: you know, it doesn't mean that I'm not going to
• 49:01
  S9: get hurt. It doesn't mean that I have to trust
• 49:03
  S9: everybody with every version of myself. But at the end
• 49:07
  S9: of the day, my identity is secure. And it's just, it's,
• 49:10
  S9: it's just a more freeing way to live with the
• 49:13
  S9: mask off than it is with the mask on and
• 49:16
  S9: to to walk into high trust, authentic community with others.
• 49:19
  S9: And then that's when you really realize that they are connected. The,
• 49:23
  S9: you know, the great command, Love God and love your
• 49:24
  S9: neighbor as yourself. It wasn't, it was this interconnected thing.
• 49:28
  S9: Part of loving God is loving other people. Part of
• 49:30
  S9: trusting God is learning to trust broken, imperfect people. Um,
• 49:35
  S9: this is why Paul, so many prayers for unity. So
• 49:38
  S9: much talk was about our relationships with each other. It's messy. Yes.
• 49:42
  S9: And sometimes it's easier for me to just go up
• 49:44
  S9: to the mountaintop and just connect with God and not
• 49:46
  S9: worry about the broken, messy, imperfect people. That's just not
• 49:49
  S9: God's design for us. And ultimately, it's not the life
• 49:53
  S9: that he's called us to live.
• 49:54
  S2: You know, we, we desire this. We desire to live with,
• 49:58
  S2: in peace with God and to live in real, real,
• 50:02
  S2: honest community with other people. But for so many people,
• 50:05
  S2: even people who show up every week for small groups,
• 50:08
  S2: there's something that keeps them from it. How have you
• 50:11
  S2: seen maybe it was a small group or an individual
• 50:14
  S2: as you've been. I know you have different resources available.
• 50:17
  S2: You have small group experience. How have you seen a
• 50:20
  S2: person or a small group get real victory here?
• 50:23
  S9: Yeah, a lot of times what we say is somebody's
• 50:26
  S9: got to be first on the beach is somebody's got
• 50:29
  S9: to step into vulnerability first. If I wear a mask,
• 50:33
  S9: you can really only love my mask, right? Because we
• 50:37
  S9: can only be loved to the degree that we're known.
• 50:39
  S9: And if I won't give you all of me. How
• 50:41
  S9: can you love all of me? Yet love is the
• 50:44
  S9: thing that we desire, right? That's in. God created us
• 50:47
  S9: to be loving people who walk in high trust, authentic
• 50:50
  S9: community with one another. So what are we? Who's going
• 50:53
  S9: to do it first, right? Who's going to take the
• 50:55
  S9: mask off? Lead with vulnerability. And we're going to have
• 50:58
  S9: that type of relationship. Well somebody's got to be first
• 51:01
  S9: on the beach, right? Yes. And so we, we begin to, um,
• 51:06
  S9: take risks, so to speak. We begin to show up
• 51:09
  S9: and say, you know what? I am going to lead
• 51:11
  S9: with vulnerability. I'm not going to give the guarded, you know,
• 51:14
  S9: church answers. I'm not going to try to keep it
• 51:17
  S9: in my head and not into my heart when it
• 51:20
  S9: comes to this relationship, this friendship, this group. I'm going
• 51:23
  S9: to be first on the beach and we see what happens. Now.
• 51:25
  S9: Sometimes you see people getting uncomfortable, right? They're not ready
• 51:28
  S9: to go there. And sometimes you see the relief on
• 51:31
  S9: your on people's faces. It's like, oh, we're going to
• 51:34
  S9: be real. Oh, I'm so grateful. Let's do it. Let's
• 51:37
  S9: go there. And that's when things begin to change.
• 51:39
  S2: Yeah. Ben Crenshaw, our guest this morning, director of member
• 51:42
  S2: engagement for true Faith ministries. We've got some resources for you.
• 51:45
  S2: I want to direct you to their website, but also
• 51:48
  S2: just a short little PDF of some scripture verses that
• 51:52
  S2: remind you of who you are in Christ and are
• 51:55
  S2: a great opportunity for you to just put one of
• 51:57
  S2: these in a text and maybe send it to someone
• 51:59
  S2: in your life who could use a little reminder or
• 52:01
  S2: encouragement this morning. Just text true to 805 557898, text
• 52:07
  S2: true to 805 557898.