Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 891: Foundations - To Kill the Gobbler, You Must Become the Gobbler
Transcript
- 0:01Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Foundations podcast, your guide
- 0:05Speaker 1: to the fundamentals of better deer hunting, presented by first Light,
- 0:09Speaker 1: creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind.
- 0:14Speaker 1: First Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host
- 0:19Speaker 1: Tony Peterson.
- 0:20Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to the Foundation's podcast, which is brought
- 0:23Speaker 2: to you by First Light. I'm your host, Tony Peterson,
- 0:26Speaker 2: and in honor of Turkey Week, I'm going to drop
- 0:28Speaker 2: another bonus episode right now. But why you should try
- 0:30Speaker 2: to think more like a gobbler. Before I get into this,
- 0:35Speaker 2: I have to say that because it's Turkey Week, you
- 0:39Speaker 2: gotta head over to the medeater dot com and check
- 0:41Speaker 2: out what we have going on. You know, of course,
- 0:44Speaker 2: you can buy some sweet gear from First Light or
- 0:46Speaker 2: Dave Smith, Decoy's or Phelps, you know, maybe pick up
- 0:48Speaker 2: a couple of calls, maybe a buy no harness from FAHF.
- 0:51Speaker 2: But you can also check out a whole bunch of
- 0:53Speaker 2: turkey content as well if you just kind of want
- 0:55Speaker 2: to be entertained and maybe learn a thing or two. Also,
- 0:58Speaker 2: you can see that we are hunting a turkey calling contest. Now,
- 1:02Speaker 2: you guys, know, that I don't get super hyped up
- 1:04Speaker 2: about stuff like this, but I do want to beat
- 1:07Speaker 2: Mark Kenyon, so I would really appreciate it if you
- 1:10Speaker 2: would go over there and give me some boats throughout
- 1:14Speaker 2: this whole thing, to make sure that not only do
- 1:16Speaker 2: I knock you onis out right away, but if I
- 1:18Speaker 2: do meet up with Mark, that I can kick his
- 1:20Speaker 2: ass to thank you for that in advance. All right,
- 1:23Speaker 2: enough of that, I think this is actually a fun one,
- 1:26Speaker 2: you know, at least for me, and I hope it
- 1:27Speaker 2: is for you. You know. When it comes to deer hunting,
- 1:30Speaker 2: I try really hard to think about what a deer
- 1:32Speaker 2: would think about and then use that knowledge. Now. I
- 1:35Speaker 2: know that might sound like a little bit bananas, but
- 1:38Speaker 2: it works, especially when you're hunting pressure deer. But with
- 1:41Speaker 2: turkeys might not really be necessary. But then again, you
- 1:45Speaker 2: might need a little boost, and one way to get
- 1:47Speaker 2: it is to not just blindly set out with a
- 1:49Speaker 2: box call in a sandwich, hoping you strike up a
- 1:51Speaker 2: bird before it's time to go home. Instead, try to
- 1:54Speaker 2: think about what gobblers, now all turkeys might be interested in,
- 1:59Speaker 2: and at what times and where. The more you do this,
- 2:02Speaker 2: the more turkey fans you'll have to put on your wall.
- 2:09Speaker 2: I know I've talked about dogs on here a lot,
- 2:11Speaker 2: and if you pay attention at all, you know that
- 2:13Speaker 2: I have another podcast over on Cal's feed called Houndations,
- 2:17Speaker 2: which is all about our four legged buddies. On most
- 2:20Speaker 2: of those episodes, I talk about professional dog trainers at
- 2:24Speaker 2: some point. Sometimes they are the main focus. Sometimes they
- 2:27Speaker 2: are just mentioned in passing. But the folks who make
- 2:29Speaker 2: their living molding dogs into something you don't want to
- 2:32Speaker 2: give up for adoption out of absolute frustration and embarrassment
- 2:36Speaker 2: are folks with a lot of knowledge to drop. I
- 2:40Speaker 2: think one of the things that has always just blown
- 2:42Speaker 2: my mind about pro dog trainers is how they can
- 2:44Speaker 2: get inside the head of a dog and predict what
- 2:47Speaker 2: a dog will do. Now, this can be broken down
- 2:49Speaker 2: into two different lines of thought, both of which can
- 2:52Speaker 2: probably apply to most dogs. So for starters, you kind
- 2:55Speaker 2: of have general dog traits. A lot of German shorthair
- 2:58Speaker 2: pointers or lot of setters, or a lot of labs
- 3:01Speaker 2: or springers or whatever will do the same kind of
- 3:04Speaker 2: things as other members of their breed. But then you
- 3:07Speaker 2: have the individual traits and the quirkiness which pro trainers
- 3:11Speaker 2: tend to figure out pretty quickly and use to shape
- 3:13Speaker 2: the behaviors through the training process. When you spend time
- 3:17Speaker 2: with a really talented trainer and watch what they can
- 3:19Speaker 2: do with dogs, you also witness somebody who understands what
- 3:22Speaker 2: is going to happen before it does. It's pretty cool
- 3:25Speaker 2: and it shows you that there's no replacement for tons
- 3:27Speaker 2: of experience. The ability to predict behaviors before they happen
- 3:31Speaker 2: gives you an edge on two levels. The first is
- 3:34Speaker 2: that you can head off undesirable behaviors or encourage desirable
- 3:38Speaker 2: ones in a more efficient way, and it will inform
- 3:42Speaker 2: you on future training sessions because you know some of
- 3:45Speaker 2: the pieces of the puzzle before you toss that first bumper.
- 3:48Speaker 2: That's hugely beneficial. Now, unfortunately, not too many of us
- 3:52Speaker 2: are going to get the chance to professionally train a
- 3:54Speaker 2: bunch of gobblers to do something like I don't know,
- 3:57Speaker 2: strutter gobble, I guess. But you can still get inside
- 3:59Speaker 2: the head of a turkey and use that to your advantage.
- 4:02Speaker 2: You can even do this kind of like with dogs,
- 4:05Speaker 2: where you can focus on general turkey behavior, or if
- 4:08Speaker 2: you scout like I told you to do a couple
- 4:10Speaker 2: days ago, you can learn about the habits of individual birds.
- 4:14Speaker 2: That's actually crazy fun and some of my most exciting
- 4:17Speaker 2: hunts have involved going out with a specific gobbler in
- 4:20Speaker 2: mind because I've been keeping tabs on him and I
- 4:22Speaker 2: believe I have a chance at that specific bird. But
- 4:25Speaker 2: for most folks, the generalities will do the trick. Here.
- 4:29Speaker 2: The key is to actually think about what gobblers or
- 4:31Speaker 2: hens or jakes for that matter, actually do throughout their day.
- 4:35Speaker 2: So let's start with early season birds here. While this
- 4:38Speaker 2: might be more relevant to a South Dakota hunter versus
- 4:41Speaker 2: someone down in Mississippi, the early birds have different needs
- 4:44Speaker 2: versus the mid and late season birds. Now, while the
- 4:47Speaker 2: toms are always ready to go, the hens often only
- 4:50Speaker 2: have food on their minds. This is especially true early
- 4:53Speaker 2: in the day when they fly off the roost. While
- 4:56Speaker 2: you always have the chance to call in a rando,
- 4:58Speaker 2: if you're hunting birds that are mostly flocked up, you
- 5:01Speaker 2: have your work cutout for you. At sunrise, those birds
- 5:03Speaker 2: are generally going to follow the hens and they're going
- 5:06Speaker 2: to you know, gobble their asses off without coming in
- 5:09Speaker 2: a whole lot. Look. This can be fun, but can
- 5:12Speaker 2: also be frustrating unless you're waiting on the food with
- 5:14Speaker 2: some decoys out. Now, even then, you might watch a
- 5:17Speaker 2: flock for hours while they don't get anywhere near you,
- 5:19Speaker 2: because the hens want food and maybe a little morning
- 5:22Speaker 2: sun on their backs, and the toms are mostly going
- 5:24Speaker 2: to stay with them. But what about noon when the
- 5:27Speaker 2: temperatures rise, or three in the afternoon or six, Now
- 5:30Speaker 2: you have a different game. You know, the bugs might
- 5:33Speaker 2: be out, which means the morning food source is going
- 5:35Speaker 2: to take a back seat to the high protein, freshly
- 5:37Speaker 2: available food source. Now you might have roamers or birds
- 5:41Speaker 2: that spend their midday criss crossing through a different type
- 5:43Speaker 2: of cover, or you might have birds that mostly hang
- 5:46Speaker 2: on a destination food source all day long until evening
- 5:50Speaker 2: when there's some type of march back to the roost.
- 5:52Speaker 2: In this situation, imagine being a tom or one of
- 5:55Speaker 2: the couple of jakes, and all day long you've been
- 5:57Speaker 2: fighting other birds and strutting and watching the hens, you know,
- 6:00Speaker 2: just ignore you all day long. You've tried your best
- 6:03Speaker 2: and it hasn't worked. Then you hear a hen yelping
- 6:06Speaker 2: like crazy off of the food, and maybe you head
- 6:08Speaker 2: over her way and you lift your head up and
- 6:10Speaker 2: when you hit the fence, you realize not only there
- 6:14Speaker 2: are a couple hens over there, but there's a lone
- 6:16Speaker 2: jake about to accomplish what you've failed all day long.
- 6:19Speaker 2: The same bird at sunrise as a heart full of hope,
- 6:22Speaker 2: but as evening progresses he might be downright pissed about
- 6:25Speaker 2: his lack of luck. After a lot of effort, that
- 6:29Speaker 2: time is cullible, although he might not be as vocal
- 6:32Speaker 2: as he was at seven in the morning. Now let's
- 6:35Speaker 2: take that example a step further. Imagine that field just
- 6:38Speaker 2: catching the first rays of sunlight, and you watch a
- 6:40Speaker 2: whole bunch of birds sail out there and pose up
- 6:43Speaker 2: like famingos, waiting to get warm. I see this a
- 6:46Speaker 2: lot up here where I hunt in Wisconsin and Minnesota,
- 6:49Speaker 2: and it's like you can almost take a little nap
- 6:51Speaker 2: then when they do that, because until they hit their
- 6:53Speaker 2: desired temperature, they just aren't going anywhere. So you think, well,
- 6:57Speaker 2: turkey's like being in the sun, So I'm going to
- 6:59Speaker 2: sit here all day. But by noon the temperature is
- 7:02Speaker 2: eighty degrees and the sun is directly overhead, and you
- 7:04Speaker 2: haven't seen a bird in the field in three hours.
- 7:07Speaker 2: What do you think is going on there? They needed
- 7:09Speaker 2: the sun when it was cold, and now they need
- 7:11Speaker 2: the shade when it's warm. Maybe you hunt the field
- 7:14Speaker 2: edge for a few hours, but then it's time to
- 7:16Speaker 2: get into the timber for your midday. It's not exactly
- 7:18Speaker 2: rocket science. It's kind of like, I don't know why
- 7:21Speaker 2: I love hunting white tails over water. I know deer
- 7:24Speaker 2: get thirsty every day, So that's about as simple as
- 7:27Speaker 2: I can make it. I don't need to overthink it
- 7:29Speaker 2: and try to go really deep on tactics when it
- 7:31Speaker 2: can be distilled down to something so easy to understand
- 7:34Speaker 2: and execute. Turkeys are no different. In fact, turkeys also
- 7:39Speaker 2: drink water. And I'll tell you what, Bobby. Sometimes, when
- 7:42Speaker 2: you're hunting in a state like Kansas or Texas or
- 7:44Speaker 2: some other dry cactus filled location, setting up close to
- 7:48Speaker 2: water is a really good idea. Turkeys love ponds and
- 7:51Speaker 2: cattle tanks, not only for the water, but the fresh
- 7:55Speaker 2: greenery and often the bugs around wet areas. You know
- 7:59Speaker 2: who knows that secret, actual Toms. That's who. This hit
- 8:03Speaker 2: me one time while I was hunting in Texas for rios,
- 8:06Speaker 2: and I realized that even though the feeders on the
- 8:08Speaker 2: place weren't in operation, the turkeys were in the habit
- 8:11Speaker 2: of checking each spot every day. Anyway, they all have
- 8:15Speaker 2: road access because there isn't anyone filling up corn feeders
- 8:18Speaker 2: by rucking in fifty pound bags of seed. Each feeder
- 8:22Speaker 2: spot was in some type of opening, too, and the
- 8:24Speaker 2: gobblers seemed to cruise the routes between them looking for
- 8:27Speaker 2: hens in places they expected hens to be. It was
- 8:30Speaker 2: so much more methodical than I expected. And I've seen
- 8:33Speaker 2: that with limited water in certain places too. So let's
- 8:46Speaker 2: think about getting inside the head of a turkey in
- 8:48Speaker 2: another way. We think of gobblers as being generally kind
- 8:51Speaker 2: of dumb orm rebirds that will fight at the drop
- 8:54Speaker 2: of a hat. But the truth is birds tend to
- 8:57Speaker 2: establish their pecking order early, and everyone in the flock
- 9:00Speaker 2: knows who is above and below them. The two year
- 9:03Speaker 2: old strutter in the field that won't come into the
- 9:05Speaker 2: strutting decoy you have out knows that if he does,
- 9:09Speaker 2: he might have to fight, and if he has to fight,
- 9:12Speaker 2: he might lose. It's safer to stay out of harm's
- 9:15Speaker 2: way and advertise the good stuff from afar. Hung up gobblers,
- 9:20Speaker 2: the kind we think we have no real explanation for,
- 9:22Speaker 2: are often just that bird. They might look the same
- 9:25Speaker 2: size as all turkeys, but they might be three or
- 9:28Speaker 2: four pounds lighter than the bigger birds in the neighborhood,
- 9:31Speaker 2: and that difference is a lot when you're pushing each
- 9:33Speaker 2: other around and trying to knife each other with your spurs.
- 9:37Speaker 2: I look at this like I look at deer decoys.
- 9:39Speaker 2: Everyone wants to use a buck decoy because that's all
- 9:41Speaker 2: you see on the sportsman's channel, But a lot of
- 9:43Speaker 2: bucks don't want to fight, and that means a lot
- 9:45Speaker 2: of bucks are not going to come into a buck decoy.
- 9:48Speaker 2: A lot of toms don't want to fight either, and
- 9:50Speaker 2: that means they're not coming into a full strutter. Pay
- 9:53Speaker 2: attention to the turkeys and think about what you could
- 9:55Speaker 2: do to ensure the highest odds of a positive response
- 9:58Speaker 2: out of all legal birds. In fact, sometimes you see
- 10:02Speaker 2: roving bands of jakes that will run off toms two.
- 10:05Speaker 2: I had this happen to me in Minnesota last year,
- 10:07Speaker 2: and the nine jakes that kept the toms at bay
- 10:09Speaker 2: eventually pissed me off enough to where there were eight
- 10:12Speaker 2: of them after one of them caught an arrow to
- 10:14Speaker 2: the chest. If I had kept hunting there, I probably
- 10:16Speaker 2: would have left the jake decoy at home to see
- 10:18Speaker 2: if one of the toms that stayed away from the
- 10:20Speaker 2: Jakes would just eventually venture into a spread of hens.
- 10:25Speaker 2: After all, if every time you walk by the middle
- 10:27Speaker 2: school the whole herd of seventh grade boys ran out
- 10:29Speaker 2: and chucked rocks at you, you'd probably alter your routes
- 10:32Speaker 2: a little bit. Let's look at this another way. Imagine
- 10:37Speaker 2: you're at the stage of the season where the toms
- 10:39Speaker 2: are really cruising. You can get them to gobble, but
- 10:42Speaker 2: they all seem to be on a mission somewhere and
- 10:44Speaker 2: you can't quite pull them into your deeks. Why would
- 10:48Speaker 2: they do that? Well, for whatever reason, sometimes they just
- 10:51Speaker 2: seem like they have a destination in mind, and that
- 10:53Speaker 2: is that cruising bucks do this too, And it's maddening
- 10:56Speaker 2: when you try to call a deer and it's just
- 10:58Speaker 2: not interested. But it happens a lot. So you have
- 11:02Speaker 2: a bunch of birds that seem to be randomly crossing
- 11:05Speaker 2: the countryside looking for a hen, but when you show
- 11:08Speaker 2: them a hen is around and they ignore you. It
- 11:10Speaker 2: doesn't make sense. I believe animals, and yes, even turkeys,
- 11:14Speaker 2: have the ability to reason more than we probably think.
- 11:17Speaker 2: So that cruiser that comes out to the field corner
- 11:20Speaker 2: and he looks at your decoys and just keeps going,
- 11:23Speaker 2: even though you know he's all alone. He must have
- 11:27Speaker 2: a reason for it, and the reason, I think is
- 11:29Speaker 2: because they decided in their little long beard brains that
- 11:32Speaker 2: the next spot in their route is where the hens
- 11:34Speaker 2: will be, and that's where they're going. Some of them
- 11:37Speaker 2: do change their plans when you call them and you
- 11:39Speaker 2: show them some decoys, but some just don't. How do
- 11:43Speaker 2: you solve for the ones that don't. Well, you better
- 11:45Speaker 2: get closer to where they are likely to cruise again,
- 11:49Speaker 2: not really rocket science. If the birds are on the
- 11:51Speaker 2: move but not acting all that callable, you better set
- 11:54Speaker 2: up right where the logging road meets the field, or
- 11:56Speaker 2: right on the ridge between the two pastures that they
- 11:59Speaker 2: like to strut in. While they try to draw in
- 12:00Speaker 2: some hens, you're going to want to think about why
- 12:03Speaker 2: they might walk from point A to B and whether
- 12:06Speaker 2: it's the right time to set up between them. The
- 12:09Speaker 2: problem here is that when turkey hunting gets frustrating, we
- 12:12Speaker 2: often default to the idea that if we run and
- 12:15Speaker 2: gun and call enough, we will strike up a hot bird.
- 12:19Speaker 1: Look.
- 12:19Speaker 2: Sometimes that works, but a lot of times it doesn't,
- 12:21Speaker 2: and when it doesn't, it often doesn't do you any
- 12:24Speaker 2: favors for future hunts. Another way to think like a
- 12:27Speaker 2: turkey is to pay attention to the hens that you
- 12:29Speaker 2: see and the hens that you hear, and think about
- 12:31Speaker 2: what their behavior means to the local gobblers. If you've
- 12:35Speaker 2: ever watched a tom follow ahead to the point where
- 12:37Speaker 2: she lays down on a nest, you can almost see
- 12:40Speaker 2: them get frustrated. After a little while, they know the
- 12:42Speaker 2: game is over, and while they'll push the issue a
- 12:45Speaker 2: little bit, they often just seem to give up and
- 12:47Speaker 2: go what do you think that bird is thinking? I
- 12:51Speaker 2: think he's probably thinking, well, shit, I guess I have
- 12:54Speaker 2: to put in some work somewhere else. When you hit
- 12:57Speaker 2: the point of the season where the hens are definitely nesting,
- 13:00Speaker 2: which is often earlier than a lot of folks believe,
- 13:02Speaker 2: you have an opportunity to work gobblers in the late
- 13:04Speaker 2: morning or midday. That went from being totally hand up
- 13:08Speaker 2: to being totally hand free and looking hard. Can you
- 13:12Speaker 2: imagine a more callable bird than that? So what if
- 13:16Speaker 2: you're running and gunning from sunrise to nine o'clock and
- 13:19Speaker 2: you just can't get a bird to come in and
- 13:21Speaker 2: then things go quiet, which is something that happens a
- 13:24Speaker 2: lot with all subspecies, but it's like an eastern turkey's
- 13:27Speaker 2: biggest trick. Now, you have a daily window where a
- 13:30Speaker 2: few birds in your neighborhood might go from almost uncallable
- 13:33Speaker 2: to highly callable, but not if they find a better
- 13:36Speaker 2: option than you when they start cruising. So what does
- 13:40Speaker 2: that mean? Well, if your birds start to go quiet
- 13:43Speaker 2: in the midday, it's time to post up on a
- 13:45Speaker 2: known travel route and call throughout those dead hours. Make
- 13:48Speaker 2: something happen. Think about what the birds are probably thinking about,
- 13:52Speaker 2: because what they are thinking about is everything you need
- 13:54Speaker 2: to know to kill them. Now, I feel like I
- 13:57Speaker 2: have to say this again. Turkeys are pretty dumb and
- 14:00Speaker 2: often not that challenging to kill. But sometimes they're really
- 14:04Speaker 2: smart and are very challenging to kill. When you encounter
- 14:07Speaker 2: the latter, ask yourself when you're out there or when
- 14:10Speaker 2: you're planning the next day's hunt, what exactly they might
- 14:13Speaker 2: be doing throughout the day. Is it early season and
- 14:16Speaker 2: they're flocked up. That's a great jumping off point for
- 14:19Speaker 2: a strategy and might even convince you to sleep in
- 14:21Speaker 2: and work the birds later. Or is it right in
- 14:24Speaker 2: the heart of the season, with big temperature swings throughout
- 14:26Speaker 2: the day that might bring out the bugs or make
- 14:28Speaker 2: some water worth considering? What might have frustrated Tom do
- 14:32Speaker 2: when his hen beds down for a few hours, Or
- 14:34Speaker 2: what might a few frustrated jakes do when it's getting
- 14:37Speaker 2: close to the time to roost and they haven't even
- 14:39Speaker 2: had so much as a sideways glance from a hen
- 14:42Speaker 2: all day? How is it Tom going to accomplish his
- 14:45Speaker 2: goal of always being around hens that might be ready
- 14:49Speaker 2: for some action? And what is he going to do
- 14:51Speaker 2: when he can't immediately find that? What are the actual
- 14:55Speaker 2: bird reactions to your calling and your spread? And what
- 14:58Speaker 2: do you think that means? What are they thinking that
- 15:02Speaker 2: keeps them from committing All of these thought exercises to
- 15:05Speaker 2: take yourself into the mind of an actual turkey might
- 15:07Speaker 2: seem dumb, but I can't think of a hunting opportunity
- 15:10Speaker 2: that we put less thought into the animals themselves than
- 15:13Speaker 2: a spring turkey on it. We take it for granted
- 15:16Speaker 2: that they can be called in without an ounce of
- 15:18Speaker 2: brain power going into the why and the where and
- 15:20Speaker 2: the how of any given day in the field. But
- 15:23Speaker 2: the more you think about birds and what they might
- 15:25Speaker 2: be thinking about. The easier it is to stay in
- 15:27Speaker 2: the action and be where they actually want to be.
- 15:30Speaker 2: Takes a lot of the randomness out of the equation
- 15:33Speaker 2: and alleviates at least some of the need to be lucky. Look,
- 15:36Speaker 2: it's not necessary, but again, if you want to get
- 15:38Speaker 2: better at this stuff, a lot of what we all
- 15:40Speaker 2: need to work on is just between our ears. I
- 15:43Speaker 2: believe this to be absolutely true with big game deer
- 15:46Speaker 2: and hell even ducks and pheasants. But I also believe
- 15:48Speaker 2: it to be true when it comes to turkeys. So
- 15:51Speaker 2: think about what that big old long beard is thinking about.
- 15:54Speaker 2: Try to get inside his mind, try to predict his movements.
- 15:57Speaker 2: Have some fun with it. Because spring turkey sees and
- 16:00Speaker 2: is an absolute short lived gift. That's it. I'm Tony Peterson.
- 16:06Speaker 2: This has been the Wire to Hunt Foundation's podcast, which
- 16:09Speaker 2: is brought to you by First Light. As always, thank
- 16:11Speaker 2: you so much for your support. Like I said in
- 16:13Speaker 2: the beginning, if you want to check out our Turkey
- 16:16Speaker 2: Week content, go to the meadeater dot com. Articles, videos, podcasts,
- 16:21Speaker 2: you name it. If you want to just get hyped up,
- 16:23Speaker 2: maybe learn something about turkey hunting, check that out. You
- 16:26Speaker 2: can also check out our Turkey Calling contest there where
- 16:29Speaker 2: I'll be competing against Yanni and some of the other
- 16:31Speaker 2: guys here for the crown, and I would kind of
- 16:35Speaker 2: like to win it, if for no other reason than
- 16:37Speaker 2: to remind Mark that I'm an amazing hunter and he's not.
- 16:41Speaker 2: That should be good enough reason for all of you
- 16:42Speaker 2: guys to go over there check it out anyway, Thank
- 16:45Speaker 2: you so much for your support. Truly appreciate it. Hope
- 16:48Speaker 2: you guys have a great Turkey season. Thank you.