Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S5 E9 The Day the Music Died - The Marvin Gaye Case

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S5 E9 The Day the Music Died - The Marvin Gaye Case · True Crime and Wine Time

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• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Well with that, So let's get into what we're drinking
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: and why we're excited to talk about this case tonight.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So for tonight, I chose a wine that I
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: mean seems appropriate by the name, and and the wine
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: is called Icon because we are indeed talking about an
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: icon tonight. And it's a mescato. Yeah me too. It's
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: like very Greek Gatsby, you know, very art. So I yeah,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I saw it, and I didn't really pay attention other
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: than to just buy the type of wine that I
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: wanted for tonight. And I hadn't had a moscato in
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: weeks anyway, so I chose that, which honestly, no mescado
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: should have this, but it has a seventeen percent ABV,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: which is buck wild for a moscato. And I say
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: that because I'll be buck wild by the end of
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: the show. It is correct. There are some notes of pineapple,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: some you know, it's citrus and honeysuckle. There is a honeysuckle,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: so there is kind of like a honey feel to it.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: You're right, it's almost like a meaty like a meat
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: but there their their description says it's the perfect wine
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: addition to any event you have planned, and then I added,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: you know that event sexual healing. Interested. I've always felt
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: drawn to cases like this where kind of the public
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: legacy of someone we admire crashes up against the private
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: pain that they're experiencing. And it's not because it's uh
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: something to stare at, but it is always interesting to
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: experience like these celebrities that we put on these pedestals,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: but their humanity. With the anniversary of Marvin's death not
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: just two days ago, uh, it feels especially important to
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: kind of take time and reflect on who he was
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: and what he meant to many, and what we can
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: learn from that tragedy that took him away. And it's
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: you know, I I don't. I guess it's it's a
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: good thing to honor the legacy while shining light on
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: what ended his life because they're very, very real issues.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting because obviously I'm on the little on
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: the younger side, and his heyday was not my day.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: But for the folks that I've talked to whose heyday
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: was that day, they did not remember how Marvin Gay
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: died at all. It is interesting there.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: She is the queen of the show.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: We promised to do it the correct way. We'll see,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: we'll see what happens anyway. So gummy bears, huh? All right,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: all right, listen, gummy bears. Great, just don't go streaming.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: We'll be fine.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: All right, what you got?
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Well, tonight, I'm finishing off my bag of wine from
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: our Sunday show. Again. If you don't get that joke,
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: you're gonna have to go watch because it was a
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: disaster with my wife this Sunday, so I think, not
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: the whole but it was the whole thing. So I'm
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: finishing that up. And then I got it's not themed
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: with the show, which that's okay, But anyway, I have
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: a use many road also mescato, because we're getting wine
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: drunk tonight. Apparently this was not plammed, but mine is
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: not seventeen percent I'm sure it's a reasonable ten percent,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: but I got four bottles of them, so there's that.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: So yeah, So I'm really excited to talk about this
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: tonight because, like I mean, I obviously know who Marvin
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Gay is and was, and know much of his music,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Like I don't, I haven't lived under a rock for
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: the last several decades. And you know, I knew that
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: he was murdered, but I didn't really know any of
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: the details about it. You know, before researching this, I
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: didn't know about the family dynamics and the dysfunction. I
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: didn't know his really serious struggles with mental health. I
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: guess I didn't really know how utterly tragic this whole
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: case really is. I know, I know, I learned a
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: lot of researching this, and I hope you all find
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: this as fascinating as I do. So yeah, I guess
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: with that, let's begin show. We does that sound great
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: to everybody? All right, buckle up, get your one in hand,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: your slippers on, let's go. All right, So we're gonna
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: start with a little background of Marvin Gay tonight. So
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Marvin Pence Gay Junior was known as the Princes of Soul.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: I know, look at those cheeks. How adorable is he
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: in his little suit? Adorable anyway, So he was known
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: as the Prince of Soul. He was born April second,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: nineteen thirty nine in Washington, d C. To his church
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: minister dad, Marvin Gay Senior and ALBERTA. Gay. Now, the
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: family was very religious, and we'll get into that later,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: and they were part of this very conservative church called
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: the House of God, and they had a very strict
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: code of conduct. But Marvin started singing in this church
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: when he was just about four years old and fell
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: in love with singing. That is a current picture of
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: the church. But look at the little dog there. I
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: included it because.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: They had the puppy kind of looks like Joe.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: She would photobomb Google car.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: She would don't even mention her game. He probably.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Right. So at age of Levin, Marvin performed in school
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: play singing Mario Lanza's Be My Love, which I don't
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: know if you guys have heard that. I listened to
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: that for the first time the other day, and I
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: thought that was really good. Never heard that song before.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: In junior high Marvin joined a glee club and became
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: a star there. He is in his little junior high
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: very cute, and then in high school joined several do
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: vocal groups. Oh I thought you had something to say
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: that I'm sorry.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Oh well, I honestly, I was trying to think about
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: whether I wanted to say it or not. But the
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: kid next to him does not look as happy to
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: be there.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: No, he doesn't. I saw that too, and I was like, oh,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: he looks.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know whether he's angry or cross eyed. It
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: could be both, maybe none, not sure.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: And then the other kid on the next to them
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: looks like very funny school pictures. They're great.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Where's my Tommy gotten? So?
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: At the age of seventeen, Marvin sought an escape, and
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: he dropped out of high school and enlisted in the
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: United States Air Force, apparently though his superiors considered him
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: uncooperative and lasadaisical, which sure right. The Air Force was
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: not quite the escape that Marvin had hoped it would be,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: and he decided to fake being mentally ill, and after
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: one year's service, was given a general discharge. It's actually
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: really ironic that he was discharged for faking a mental
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: ill when he very much has a lot of them
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: later on in his life, and maybe even then too.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, growing up in this environment that he did
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: that will learn about. I wouldn't have been surprised if
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: there was stuff going on at that time. But anyway,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: so he's out of the Air Force, he's back. He
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: decides to form a vocal quartet called the Marquees. The
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: group performed around the DC area, and soon they began
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: working with Bo Diddley. The group signed with a record label,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: but after their sole single, which Bo Diddley helped write,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: failed to hit the charts, the record label terminated their contract.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I just want to say this when I was when
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I was reading up on Marvin Gay and realized that
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: he worked tightly with Bo Didley. I've actually seen bo Diddley.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I saw him back in like seven six He was
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: playing at my college and I remember sitting in like
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: the sixth row watching this man play guitar, and he
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: was most assuredly. I would need to do the math
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: on how old he was, but he is. He was
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the dirtiest old man that I'd ever met, because he
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: would like play and strum and then he'd start making
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: stuff up. And but I mean like as an artist,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: he's like foundational for a lot of different things. So
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: I wanted to go see him because, you know, as
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: an artist and a guitar, it's just fantastic. But he
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: is a character that fella for sure.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Seems seems like a lot of these guys from this
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: era generation are characters. What a time to be alive
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: for music, though, I'll tell you what, right, this list
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: of people is crazy that he is involved with.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: So right, So during this.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Time when he's with the Marquis here, Marvin started composing
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: some of his own music, which I always find composing fascinating.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how people can do that and what
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: a skill that is to I don't even my brain
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: can't even handle it. So the Marquis would eventually go
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: to work for Harvey Fuqua. How fun is that to say,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: you guys Fuqua? I love it. So Fuqua is the
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: co founder of the Moon Gloves, and with Harvey's help,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: they changed their name to Harvey and the moon Glos.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: I like the moon I like that, damn. They up
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: and moved to Chicago. So the new group, Harvey and
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: the moon Glows recorded several songs for Chess Records in
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty nine, Marvin's first lead vocal recording was on
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: that Chess label and was Mama Lucci or Lucy. I
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: don't know which one it is. I'm gonna be honest,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Chat can correct me. I think it's Lucy. Yeah, it's
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: oh Cie. If anything, I should have googled that but
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: for the show.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: But here we are. If it's Luci, they did it wrong,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: so we'll just say that right whatever.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so the band was able to find work a
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: session singers for artists like Chuck Berry, who I freaking
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: love Chuck Berry? Okay, and what is your favorite Chuck
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Berry song? And why is it? My dingling? So you
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: help me not even know that Chuck Berry does that song.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: But a funny side story real quick, So growing up
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: every year for Christmas, my aunt would insist on playing
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: this on my grandparents' record player, like growing like till
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I was at least like fourteen or fifteen, and I'm
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: really I'm still surprised decades later that my parents and
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: like grandparents like even allow it. I can't even believe
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: they went for it.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: But just like I just imagine like Grandma pretending she's
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: deaf and Grandpa pouring raggnog like it's going to erase
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: the memory and then like, honestly, it's kind of more
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: shocking than Chuck Berry somehow became your family's accidental sex
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: head teacher.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Uh well from the country.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well okay, but you know, I mean like it, yeah,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: you know what the joke age poorly, just like Chuck did.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Oh well, poor guys been through a lot and put
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: others through a lot. Still a fantastic guitarist and musician, dude.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like the King of rock and roll, right,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure, like that's his rock and roll a
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: rock song. But anyway, enough about Chuck Berry as that
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: there could be enough, but we'll do a different show
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: about Chuck Berry is the other time, I guess. Anyway. So,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: but the band Henry Harvey and the Moon Blows he
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: did not last and they broke up in nineteen sixty,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: very disappointing. So Marvin, along with Harvey Fuquah, left Chicago
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: and moved to Detroit, Michigan, where Marvin's life changed for good.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: It's not usually when people happened to people when they
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: moved to Detroit, Michigan. But okay, I guess this would
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: have been around the height of Detroit, Michigan. Actually now
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: that they look at the date. So it was a
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: bumping place.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was very tall.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, working as a session musician, Marvin played at
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: a house party for Motown's president, Barry Gordy.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: It's uh. I think it's absolutely amazing how he literally
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: could have been like singing on records and in groups
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: for decades and never have advanced in this one moment
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: in time, this one time he said yeah, sure, this
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: is this is what, this is what happens.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: So right, So Barry liked what he heard from Marvin,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: and after negotiating with Harvey and buying him out of
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: his contract with Marvin, Barry signed Marvin up with his
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: with the Motown subsidiary TAMLA. So in May of nineteen
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: sixty one, Marvin released his first single, let Your Conscious
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Be Your Guide, as part of the album The Soulful
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Moods of Marvin Gay. Look at that. Look at that album?
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Come oh that also that also had my funny Valentine.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Holy cow, that's a yeah, that's a great album.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So Sadly though, the album did not perform, and
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: he spent much of nineteen sixty one performing session work
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: as a drummer, which I didn't know he was a
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: drummer too. I guess maybe you need to play a
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: bunch of instruments to be like a composer. Yes, that
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: makes sense now I think about it. I'm not musically
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: inclined in case. Nobody's put that together yet. I played
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: the clarinet in school. That's about it. So in nineteen
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: sixty two he found some mild success though, as a
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: co songwriter of the Marvelllette's track. The name of this
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: song is Beechwood four dash five seven eight nine, on
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: which he also played the drums. By the way, I
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: hadn't heard that song either, and I think it's a
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: phone number because she's like call me Beechwood four or
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: five seven eight nine or something. I also can't sing,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: so there's that. You're welcome.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I think that they're just there. Are the cutest trio.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: They're adorable. I love it.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: You're super cute. So his first solo hit was in
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: September nineteen sixty two with the Stubborn Kind of Fellow,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: which reached number eight on the chart. So we're getting
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: we're getting there, you know, pretty good? Yeah, So he
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: then released Hitchhike, which is a dance song that he
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: also co wrote, which became his first top forty pop single.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: I remember what they used to do all those billboards.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Do they still do Billboard things? Nowadays?
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Billboard still does stuff. It's just like it's really hard.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming they had to recalculate how they went about
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: doing that just because the different But.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: It is available. Yeah, that's why I asked, like, do
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: they even just Spotify took over for Billboard Music or something.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming they take like all the download numbers and
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: average them. And but that's why I don't be.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Playing there in that photo. Sorry. So I note, by
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: the way, if you're just listening to a smuck on
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: the podcast, you should come to the YouTube channel. Don't
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: you have visuals? Why is like that?
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: It's not him? But it is part of the motortown review.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: And I know this because that's a picture that I
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: looked up. I actually don't really know it is. A
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: captain says it's the smallest sex ever. It is very
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: much played like a flute, but it looks like it
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: might be a baritone of some sort. Good Night.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Too interesting and I add that to my list of
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: things to look into sometimes. Anyway, So this success led
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Marvin to joining the Motortown Review, which was a package
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: of concert tours for Motown artist. In nineteen sixty three,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Marvin released his first top ten single, Pride and Joy.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Marvin continued to grow with his album that he did
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: with Mary Wells. Then Marvin Anna married Anna Gordy. I'm
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: pretty sure that's Barry's sister. Oh, yes, the sister of
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Barry Gordy. In June of nineteen sixty three. She was
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: seventeen years older than him. Get a girl.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: She looks greats like, I want to know your routine, please,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: because I'm pretty sure I look way worse now.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I have my theories of why he paired up with her.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it kind of reminded him her of
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: his mom in a way. You know, he's he's yeah,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: he's kind of a mommy's boy in a beautiful way.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: I do not mean that in a bad way, yes,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: but I think I think that might have been a thing.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: But I don't. I don't know that's true.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Just mind, bod I agree. I mean, there's there's a
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: level of uh, you know, we're going to get into
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: this in the in the next section, but there's a
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: level of his mom really took care of him, and
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I think that that's what he was looking for when
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: he left the house, somebody to kind of reinforce, like
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: some positivity and take care and things like that, and
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I I do think you're right.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So they got married. Marvin decided to stop writing
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: after this and focused on singing tracks written by other writers.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: One of these songs became the hit how Sweet it
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Is to Be Loved by You?
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Love that song, Love that.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Song so much. Marvin then began working with the one
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: and only Smokey Robinson, and their partnership was a hit
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: for Marvin. Because of course, Marvin hit his first single
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: to sell one million copies you guys, which, in case
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: you didn't know, is a big deal. And I am
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: sure it is a big deal in what are eurowe in,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: like nineteen sixty four, Like that's a big deal.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. Obviously it wasn't like you could click download.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: You had to get up, you had to get into
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: a car, or you had to walk to a record store,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: you had to pick up the record. So it was
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: very much it's very much a lot more different dificult
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: to make those those records.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: So and your town had to have a record store, you.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Know, right, captain, said Defonse. Correct, I did not create this,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I borrowed it.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: So Marvin still wanted to be a jazz singer and
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: went on to record the jazz albums when I'm Alone
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: I Cry and Hello Broadway, which was a tribute to
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: the great nat King Cole and sadly none of them
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: did really well, which bummer. But you know, if we
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: learned wanting from the story, right as, Marvin strikes out
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: a lot, all right, but he keeps going and it
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: works out. So I think we have something to learn
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: from him on this, all right. So in nineteen sixty eight,
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Marvin saying the national anthem at Game four of the
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight World Series, which is also a big
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: freaking deal consider during the time period and his popularity.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: At the time.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Big deal. O, God, look at that good John Marvin.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I heard he changed that up a lot out of
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: some different like styles to it. I don't know if
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: it was well received or not, but I saw an
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: interview with him.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I I just enjoy how clean his
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: voice is, you know. Yeah, it's cool soul.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: That's why he's the King of Soul, Prince of Soul,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: not King of Soul, Prince anyway.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: It's so.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Nineteen sixty eight was a good year for Marvin, Thank goodness.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: He had his first number one on the Billboard Hot
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: one hundred for I Heard it through the grape Vine,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: which we all know. I keep wanting to go into
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: song and then be like, Tara, you're live, do not
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: go into song right now. Nobody wants to hear.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Dads anywady through the grape.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: There you go, And that went on to sell over
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: four million copies that year, a lot, which is crazy.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: So he continued making music that's craped right. He continued
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: making music even though he felt he did not deserve
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: to be successful, and he would say often that he
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: felt like a puppet, which the end of the music industry,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: A lot of people say that. But the fact that
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: he said he didn't feel that he deserved to be successful,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: I would probably attribute that to the constant trauma from
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: his childhood of not feeling worthy enough.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: You know, yes, so yes.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: So he had his first album hit in nineteen sixty
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: nine titled MPG, which are his initials. Took me a second,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: they're his initials. And Marvin's friend Tammy Terrell, who he
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: had collaborated with on numerous tracks like Ain't no Mountain
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: high Enough and You're All I Need to Get By,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: which is one of my favorites, died in nineteen seventy
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: and Marvin sunk into a very big depression. With her death,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I did not go well for him.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Everybody sing by the way, No, I'm not drinking.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: This is why I cover the chat. I'm not gonna
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: listen to them. Just kidding, I'm just kidding. Anyway, it's
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: so I'm not gonna see you guys. I haven't even
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: drank that much yet. You know what, maybe maybe if
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: you guys all become members of the Channel, maybe I
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: will appear in the members only and sing for you guys. Deal.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Maybe we'll make that deal sometime. We'll see so anyway
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: in uh in nineteen seventy or wait, let me back
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: up for a second, because this part is very weird
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: to me because I don't get how we went from
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: here to hear, but here we are. So Marvin decided
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: during this depression, after you know, the death of of Tammy,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: that he wanted to be on a professional football team.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: So the Detroit Lions liked the publicity that this caused,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: but declined to have Marvin try out for the team,
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: saying that he feared he would get injured and end
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: his music career. I'm also guessing they didn't need a
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: football player who was also a recording star, Like did
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: he have any history of playing football? Because it doesn't sound.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Like it to me, But we all didn't read anything
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: about it me either. I mean, but like it was
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: a six foot one, big dude, so I mean, at
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: that point in time, it sure is. Heck, it could
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: have worked. I guess I'm kind of glad it didn't,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: but also like, could sports have actually kind of helped
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: combat the whole depression thing?
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, and everyone back then for
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: football wasn't like built like a brick. Shit. I was,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: like they are.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Day, so you know, right correct, But you.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Know, we all have different dreams. Apparently his was to
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: be on the NFL, but it did not work out.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: They said, no, I wonder if they gave them like
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: season tickets or something.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I would automatically give him season tickets.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's great publicity to get people to come
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: to the games. Right, Marvin's there, right, you want me
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: to try out for the Lions. Yes, well, okay, I
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: guess there could be worse teams. A kicker.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I wasn't even cram would you like to be alignment?
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: What position would I play? I don't even know all
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: the names you want to you want to hear an
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: embarrassing story, This is truly I can't. It's a side note.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: It has nothing to do but it has to do
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: with football, so it's kind of relevant. So it wasn't
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: until like I was in my twenties when we were
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: watching like an OSU game or something like that, and
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I had always thought that like the lines of like
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: first downs right, those lines that they put the orange
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: and yellow ones right, Like, I thought that those were
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: on the field. And I was always confused, like how
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: people didn't like trip over this line that they would
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: just like keep moving down the field. I was seriously
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: probably like twenty four years old before somebody was like, what, no,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: if you're at the game, that you don't see that?
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: And I was like, wow, is anybody supposed to know anyway?
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Very embarrassing story.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, I like the pack of cat and said you'd
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: played tight end?
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she knows, what's a that's my girl, you're so freddy. Yeah,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: I don't like football. I don't know anything about football anyway. Anyway,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: back to Marvin. In nineteen seventy, Marvin recorded What's Going On,
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: one of his classics, when he was inspired by one
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: of the Four Tops after witnessing an act of police
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: brutality at an anti war rally. Because this is Vietnam
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: times in nineteen seventy, there's about to be the shooting
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: at Kent State University in Ohio, not that far from Detroit, Michigan. So,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: but that had something to do with it, Actually, that
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: might anyway. So Barry Gordon did not like the song
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: because he felt it was too political and would ruin
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Marvin's career. Marvin held his ground and refused to release
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: any new material until the release of What's going Is
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: What's going On?
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Well, it's awesome.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Barry had to eat a lot of crow because this
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: song reached number one on the charts within a month
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: and stay there for five weeks.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Suck it, Barry. Marvin then had to head into the
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: studio and spent like the next ten days recording the
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: what Is What's Going On? Album so that he could
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: win creative control over Motown because there's some music industry
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: things going on at the time. That's a lot of
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: legal stuff I would love to get into sometime, but
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: now it's not the time for that anyway. So the
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: album was a huge success and was Marvin's first album
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: to sell a million copies and had two additional top
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: ten singles Whitches Mix. It basically a banger in nineteen
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: seventy terms, So this album was one of Motown's first
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: albums to be formatted as rhythm and blues and soul music.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Marvin won two Grammy Awards for this album and several
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: NAACP Image Awards. The album also topped the Rolling Stones
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Year Endless, and Billboard magazine named Marvin Gay as the
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Trendsetter of the Year. Marvin was then given a new
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: record deal. What's that?
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: I was like, I mean, come on, that's fantastic, that's awesome.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Barry was wrong. Hashtag Barry was wrong.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: It's it's like getting getting slimed to the Nickelodeon Awards,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Like you've made it, you.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Know, right the lines of the Nicholas decided to take
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: me a second, like wait, what oh okay, that's so true.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: So Marvin was then given a new record deal with
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Motown worth you guys ready for this? One million dollars?
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: What a million dollars, making it.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: The most money of black recording artists made at that time.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: And I imagine for a lot of people, a million
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: dollars in nineteen seventy something crazy. So in nineteen seventy three,
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Marvin and his family moved to la leaving Detroit behind.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: In August of that year, Marvin released the Let's Get
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: It On There You Go? That was for You Captain,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: the single for Let's Get It On, becoming becoming Marvin's
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: second number one hit on the Billboards. Another song on
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: the album, You Sure Loved Ball, did not do as
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: well as Some radio stations refused to play the song
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: because it was too sexual.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: How how how was that too sexual? But Let's Get
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: It On was choice.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I'm confused because the word ball male genitalia. I guess
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: we can't talk about it. I don't know. It did, however,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: still make it into the top fifty, so snooze you lose.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Martin's success continued in the studio and on the stage.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: He also found international success by teaming up with the
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: one and only Diana Ross. The Diana and Marvin group
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: is what they call themselves. I mean, how fun of
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: a show would that have been? Seeing man? What a
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: time to be alive? Why? Yeah? Now, sadly, Marvin and
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: his first wife An they split up and divorced in
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven. So that's kind of where we are
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: gonna leave off with Marvin for this part of the story. JT. Yeah,
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: share some stuff.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Stuff. I got the fun job. So we're gonna go
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: back in time a little bit. We're in fact, we're
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: gonna go back past Marvin Gay Junior's birth to Marvin
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Gay Senior. And I know that it's I know that
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: it's not always this way any longer. But Marvin Gay
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Senior really ran the dynamic of the family. He really
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: impacted Marvin. And so while I know we don't typically
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: go back to like a dad's history to then talk
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: about our main topics history, I think it plays a
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: huge part in this story. So Marvin Penske Senior was
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: born on October first, nineteen fourteen, in Jessamine County, Kentucky,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: and he was the oldest of thirteen children, which wow,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: added you know, Bonnie Python said to every sperm is sacred.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: So early just getting your kidding, just an Ohio joke,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: love you right.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Right, Well, I mean Ohio is northern Kentucky.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: It's a beautiful place.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Early years. He spent his early years in Lexington, Kentucky,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: where he did spend a majority of that early childhood.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: He was raised in a home where physical abuse was
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: incredibly prevalent. He both watched and experienced beatings from his father,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: who also beat his mother and siblings. According to his
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: eventual wife, Alberta, who was Marvin's mom, Senior's family life
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: consisted of constant violence, which involved domestic abuse and shootings.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: She told the author David Ritz, who wrote one or
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: two books about Marvin Gay, it was basically gaze against gays.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: So family didn't really enjoy themselves. Apparently this this had
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: a massive and profound impact on him, and it shaped
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: many aspects of his later life. And as it sometimes happens,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: Senior and his mom and by the way, I'm gonna
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: call Marvin Marvin and Marvin Senior Senior when I'm talking
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: about this, just to make sure that we're Yeah.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Your grandmother's my grandparents came from huge families like that too.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I think twelve and nine. Crazy.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like my dad's dad had like six or seven
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: brothers and he ended up outliving them all. But yeah,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: big o, big old family. That's a lot of poise.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: I think I read about this woman. I want to
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: say it was like in the eighteen hundreds. I want
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: to say, somebody can google it. But she had like
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: fifty two kids. Oh yeah, or maybe it was thirty two.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Fifty two sounds of grageious. I think it was thirty two.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Somebody fetch you a lot. But I was like, what
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: you were pregnant for like thirty years?
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: It's crazy and or octomoms. So I can't math again. Yeah,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Senior and his mom found refuge in a house of religion.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: In this case, they became members of the House of God.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: The House of God's a Pentecostal church known for its,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: like Tera said, strict and devout practices. They received criticisms
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: for how charismatic they can be.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Oh too much, riz of that reord.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Too much, riz that that's falling to the ground bones
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: and cries during worship services, speaking in tongues. Anti intellectualism
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: by the which is basically hostility and mistrust of intellectuals,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: so don't ask me how that's o case. It is
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: also one of the primary reasons for prosperity theology, by
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: the way, which that's basically centered on the teaching of
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Christian faith as a means to enrich oneself financially. So
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: see like Benny Hin, joel Ostein, et cetera, et cetera,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: et cetera. And if you don't know joel Ostein, just
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: imagine a horse with a person's face on it. He
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: spends more money on his teeth than I have on
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: my children. His affiliation with the House of God also
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: also played a significant role in his upbringing. Now Senior
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: eventually moved to Washington, d c. In his late teens
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: to pursue a career as a minister of a House
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: of God church there. Now While he was in Washington,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Senior met his future wife, Alberta Cooper. Alberta was born
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: in nineteen thirteen. She was the daughter of Sam Cooper
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: and Lucy Smith. In the nineteen thirty census, at age seventeen,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: she was listed as a farm laborer on Red Oak
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Whitakers Road in Red Oak, nash North Carolina. He married
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Alberta July second, nineteen thirty five, and the two bought
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: a small house in southeastern DC, only a few blocks
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: away from the Anacostia River. Alberta already had had a
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: son named Michael, but Gay sent Michael to live or
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Senior sent Michael to live with his sister in law Pearl,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: And I really want to talk about this for a second.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to about the audentity of Senior.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: He married Alberta knowing fool well that she had a
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: son named Michael. This wasn't like some surprise plot twist,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: But instead of stepping up as a partner or even
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: just as a halfway decent human being, he shipped him
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: off like he was some inconvenience to be stored away,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: not a child who deserved love, instability from at the
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: very least his mother. It's selfishness wrapped up in a
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: red wedding ring. And while it may seem a tad harsh,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: get ready, because you're gonna understand why I'm frustrated about
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: this in a moment. Yeah.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: You know what's funny is the reason why he wanted
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: to send him away is because Senior, who is this guy,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: did not believe believe in raising another man's child. That
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: was it. He didn't believe in raising another man's child.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: I can't get this. So they sent Michael to go
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: live with his aunt. He didn't find out that Alberta
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: was his mom until he was a teenager. Yeah. Yeah,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: but also.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Farbie, it for me to judge, but there's a piece
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: of me that thinks he kind of made out on
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: that one.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Well. I think he so like I think once he
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: found out that like Alberta was his mom, he came
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: back to live with them, okay, and he stood up
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: against Senior. He told Marvin he needs to start standing
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: up to his father, and Senior was not happy with
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: that and sent Michael to go live with Alberta's other sister, Ziola.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: I think it's her name, Yeah, but I thought that
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: was very interesting.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, so two years after they got married, they
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: had their first kid, a daughter of they named Jean.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: On April second, nineteen thirty nine, they had their first son,
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Marvin Junior. Then their son Frankie and daughter Ziola followed
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: shortly after.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: I really like the name Zeola, you guys, it's getting
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: added to my list of baby names.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I really I dig it too. It's really cool. It's unique.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: It's awesome. So in nineteen seventy, Senior had a son.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Here's the part where you're like, what the fuck. In
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, Senior had a son named Antoine Carey with
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: another woman as a result of one of his extra
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: marital affairs. That's right, I said, one of hypocrisy personified
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: my friend.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you see it was it's fine because like,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: it's not another man's kid. It's fine. A birda has
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: to raise another woman's baby. But he can't do that.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Noh, here, somebody give me a brephet because I can't even.
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: So.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. According to Marvin, his father was known as a
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: healer in the church. When he settled down, he became
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: a minister. When Marvin was around four years old. He
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: used to bring him to the church congregations and revivals
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: to sing. At some point, he bought a secondhand piano
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: at a rummage sale and coached his son and piano lessons,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and Junior learned by playing, learned playing by ear, and
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: it was one of the only stable times in their relationship. Now,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Senior nurtured Junior's musical talents as long as he's stuck
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: with liturgical music by the late nineteen forties, he left
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: the House of God. Senior did to join another sect
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: called the House of the Live God, but soon returned
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: to the House of God to head its board of
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: apostles in the early nineteen fifties. He then decided to
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: leave the church altogether. In the mid nineteen fifties, when
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: he wasn't named Chief Apostle of the Church, which is
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: the adult equivalent of I'm taking my Bible and going home,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: he put up a hissy fit.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: Me.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Marvin said that at that point that was when my
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: father lost his healing powers. Senior could never hold a
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: job for longer than three years. He worked in the
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: post office Senate Western Union, but then he had a
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: back injury, and unfortunately, as it so often happens, Senior
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: withdrew from social life, developed an addiction at alcohol and
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: started practicing cross dressing. The last part of that's not
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: as it so as it so often happens. In fact,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: it's very out of left field. It is one of
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: those things where you read it and you're like, hold on,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: can I go back? Good? My eyeballs need to pay
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: attention to what I just saw. I I am not
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: sure where this came from. And I'm far for it
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: for me to judge. I'm not judging at all. I
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: don't know his life, but I.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Do feel like it came from Alberta. It came from Alberta. Yeah,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Alberta spoke about it in like an autobiography or something
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I know, I know that that's where
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: that came from. The information I don't know where not
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: to cross dress came from.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and especially for the time, like that's I mean,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: I guess people have been doing that for a very
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: long time. That's stupid of me to say, now that
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: I think about it in mind.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: So I do know this much. This humiliated Marvin, who
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: at the age of twelve, saw his father dressing in
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: his mother's clothes. Not only that, but his schoolmates found
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: out about it as well. And his last name was
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Gay and his father was cross dressing, and you can
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: only imagine how bad this was for him. The bullies
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: were also giving him hell because of his dad's strict
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: rules too. Now Marvin refused used to be in the
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: room with his father for quite some time. He also added,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: as you know, you know, the family was g a
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: y okay, and he added an E to his last name,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: which it was said was due to the quiet, to
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: quiet any rumors of his own sexual orientation, which is
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: none of anyone's business. It was to emulate his idol,
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Sam Cook, who also had the E at the end
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: of his name, and it was to add more distance
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: from his father. I think it had more to do
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: with that last one than the first one. His father
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: was terrible to him and everybody. Why do I tell you, yes,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: why do I tell you all of that about his dad? Well,
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: his relationship shaped Marvin his psychology. It ultimately would end
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: up being the end of his life. So I mentioned
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: earlier that there were only a couple of times when
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: he and when Senior and Marvin were somewhat close. In
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: many many accounts, Senior was described as strict and sometimes
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: overbearing as a father to his kids, and I think
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: this is an understatement. According to his kids, they would
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: observe an extended Sabbath, yeah, which was every Saturday. He
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: was very much against the idea of attending church on
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: a Sunday. The Sabbath was a Saturday, and railed against
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Christian who went to church on Sundays.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: Do you think that's why he didn't get the arch
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: bishop position or whatever it was he was trying to get.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: And they're like, we have church on Sunday. That's why
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: you didn't get it.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: I just can't imagine him having like being fun to
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: be around, honestly.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Oh no, he sounds awful.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So he would often also withhold food from his kids,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: claiming that it would bring them quote closer to God
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: or the grave. You know, I guess in a way
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: it would. They're not eating so sure. Jean, their oldest daughter,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: said he was never someone who spared the rod. He
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: was very very strict. He would question his children on
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: biblical passages, giving them beatings if they were wrong. And
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: there was something across all of the kids, all the
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: four kids, they all had problems within urysis, which is
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: bed wedding. And every child had a problem with this.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: And it can be psychological or physical reasons that it happens.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna go with psychological, and I think the
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: problem with this is that bed wedding led to more beatings,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: which of course probably led to even more bed wedding
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: and it just made things worse. Marvin's sister Jane, once
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: again said that Marvin would receive the worst of it.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: All seniors beatings were brutal. He would hit him for
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: anything he did as he perceived incorrectly by the way,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: and this included putting his hair brush in the wrong
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: place or coming from home from school a minute late. Now,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Marvin said, quote, if it wasn't simply that my father,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: it wasn't simply that my father beat me. Though that
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: was bad enough. By the time I was twelve, there
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: wasn't an inch on my body that hadn't been bruised
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: and beaten by him. And Marvin also said, yeah, living
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: with father was like living with a king, an all cruel, changeable, cruel,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: and all powerful king. Marvin's mother said that Marvin's mother,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: this is not just the kids. Marvin's mother said that
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Senior hated Marvin, something that she said again to David
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Ritz in seventy nine. She said, my husband never wanted Marvin,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: and he never liked him. He used to say he
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: didn't think he was really his child. I told him
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: that was nonsense. He knew Marvin was his, but for
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: some reason he didn't love Marvin. And what's worse, he
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: didn't want me to love Marvin either. Marvin wasn't very
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: old before he understood that. Now, bottom line, we'll go ahead.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: I just want to put out a red flag warning
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: for anyone out there that when your partner says he
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: doesn't believe in taking care of another man's child, and
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: you think he's going to help you take care of
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: yours and treat yours well, no, all right, run from
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: that guy because he does not like kids. He does
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: not give a shit about kids. He's not going to
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: give a shit about his own kids.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Run, Do not make babies with somebody like that. Okay,
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: let's learn from Alberta's mistakes here. Run.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, the bottom line was this was a very
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: mean man who used any excuse to beat his son silly.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: When Marvin escaped and became successful with music, his father
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: resented him even more. The more successful he got, the
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: more he resented him. It was not great. And a
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: lot of this had to do with Senior saying, I'm
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: a man of God, but I'm not seeing near THESS
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: as my son is with this non liturgical music et cetera,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. It's jealous, it's red, it's ridiculous.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: And by the way, the reason he Marvin left to
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: go to the Air Force was to get away from
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: his father. And the reason why he wanted to leave
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: the Air Force after he got away with from his
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: father was that he went into a place where there
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: were more people like his father. So that was not
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: helpful in terms of sibling dynamics. I really couldn't find
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: much regarding those dynamics. Here's what I can say about this,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: and while it's more general, it is backed by research.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: And before I say that, I mean, you hear his
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: siblings saying exactly what was going on in that house,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: and the fact that they're able to kind of come
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: to his defense and back him up and say it
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: was this bad tells me that they probably were close.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: But typically in households of neglect and abuse, siblings will
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: take care of each other and they provide a level
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: of comfort and support that they might not get elsewhere,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: and the sibling relationship could fall into one of four patterns.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Although this kind of is something that ebbs and flows,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: it's not always one or the other. And those four
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: things are harmonious, hostile, distanced, distanced, and emotional intense. Now,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: the pattern depends depending on how things go. The pattern
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: kind of depends on sibling const the sibling constellation, which
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: is literally the order in which siblings are born, but
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: also to a large extent, on the family environment. Of course.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: With that said, it was extremely evident that Marvin and
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: his mother were everything to each other. And I think
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: there's one quote that is pivotal to his relationship with
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: his mom. Quote. If it wasn't for mother, who was
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: always there to console me and praise me for my singing,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: I think I would have been one of those child
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: suicides you read about in the papers, which is so sad. Yeah,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad that I was there for him.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, can you read my part real quick? It's raining
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: and I had to go open over your rug quicks. Okay,
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: I'll be right back.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. So, so Tara's going to get into this
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: a little bit. But if it wasn't for uh so, so,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: she's gonna get more into the fame, addiction and decline.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: But you know, Marvin Gays, the scent into drug addiction
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't a simple story. It was a tangled
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: web of personal pain and the pressures of his extraordinary life.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: Now you can't you can't really talk about it without
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: acknowledging the deep wounds from his childhood, which is what
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: I just went over, and and and then I want
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: you to imagine the devastating loss of Tammy Tarrell in
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy. And that wasn't just a career setback. It
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: was a profound emotional blow that sent him spirally. And
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: and Tammy didn't just die. Tammy died in his arms.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: And that is that is just devastating. And and let's
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: not forget the sheer weight of his fame I think,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, think about it, constantly having to produce hits
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: to live up to this image. It's it's a crushing burden,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: an absolutely crushing burden. And the lifestyle that came with it,
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: the parties, the constant exposure, it all played a role
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: in normalizing and fueling his drug use. And that drug
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: was especially especially cocaine. Plus his relationships they were often rocky,
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: which added fuel to the fire.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, you know, it is the seventies and eighties.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: Cocaine's everywhere in the seventies or eighties. O, what a
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: time to be right right, I got a whole song
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, So marital problems and the general instability
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: and his personal life just piled more stress onto what
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: is already a fragile situation. You know. What started perhaps
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: is something casual, a way to cope, quickly spiraled out
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: of control. And by the late seventies it wasn't just
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: a problem. It was a full blown addiction that was
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: tearing his life apart, affecting as how his finances, his relationship.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Don't do drug skits, okay, it doesn't go well, all right,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: It's you know, even the most talented and successful individuals
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: can struggle with addiction. You know, I think that's what
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: it's a reminder, reminder who's all about? Like addiction is
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: no one's above it, no matter what. So, you know,
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: and especially when you're a musician, right like everybody's there
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: to have a good time, so you have that anyway,
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: So Marvin obviously found himself in a very bad financial situation,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: and so between that he's going through two divorces somehow
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: at the same time. I don't really understand, but he
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: was going through two at the same time, he decided
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: that he was going to flee the US and live
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: in total seclusion in England and Belgium. You know, he
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: felt that by leaving the United States he could find
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: a peace in privacy that he craved and hopefully, you know,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: get his life back on track. You know, I imagine you
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: being in that business for as many at this point
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: decades as he was, Like it's where's down, you know,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: and then being super famous on top of that. So
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: he was able to find a creative streak and some peace,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: and during this time he wrote probably the album he's
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: known for the most, uh, Sexual Healing, which led to
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: his career comeback. All Right, CBS bought out his contract
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: from Motown and Marvin had his comeback with Sexual Healing
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: and Midnight Love. You know. So after that period in Europe,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: in the time of trying to rebuild and find some peace,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: Marvin eventually made the decision to come back to the
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: United States. You can like almost feel the weight of
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: that decision, right, Like, he has to tour again, his
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: family's there, and I with his relationship with his mom,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: I feel like that was probably like the biggest reason
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: for him coming back to be quite honestly, I mean
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: the money and shame.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: Mos too, but but like at the same time, and
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: we didn't really focus on this because it wasn't like,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: you know, it really wasn't the focus of everything. But
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: he moved to Europe because he was in he was
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: a tax exile in the eighties. He owed he owed
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: up to four point five million dollars and taxes and
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: by the time he died, you know, he owed nearly
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: nine million. So this is something that did keep him
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: over there. And then as soon as he was he
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: made that hit, and that's really that's really what kind
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: of kept him recording songs after songs, was to kind
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: of get this money. But finally he hit that hit
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: and they said come on back. And but so so
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: he hit.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: And cocaine's expensive as shit. Also, it sounds like he
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: didn't have a good financial advisor. But you know, that's
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: a thing that I feel like a lot of not
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of celebrities, some celebrities in the past have
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: struggled with their taxes and things like that. Anyway, so
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: him coming back, you know, like it wasn't just a
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: simple homecoming. You know, it was probably a lot of
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: complex feelings of hope and you know, this lingering turmoil.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: You know. So he had the incredible resurgence with sexual healing,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: proving he still had that magic though, and that ability
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: to connect with audiences. But the demons he'd been battling
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: weren't easily left behind at all. He was still dealing
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: with the fall out of his addiction and the emotional
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: scars and the ongoing struggles with his personal life. Like
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: he wasn't he was back, but he wasn't back back,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: So yeah, like his corporeal being was back, but his
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: mind was elsewhere, which is which is really sad to
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: know now, especially with this picture up, because he just
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: looks so damn happy about it. But you know, who
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: knows how happy he actually was, because sure didn't seem
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: like it.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: And you know, everyone, like the timeframe we're in here, Okay,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: mental health is not hardly anybody. There's no such thing
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: really unless you are like certified surfiledly, like you know,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: talking about depression in suicide and things like that were
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: not something you did in the seventies eighties own, probably
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: as a member of the black community. It's not talked about,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: you know. So it's not like, oh, well, he could
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: have just gotten some help. It's sure for the addiction,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: he could have, but all the other stuff, I don't
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: really think it was an option for him at this time,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: a realistic.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: One, right, No, yeah, absolutely. When his tour ended in
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three, in August, he actually returned home home
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: in order to take care of his mom. She was
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: recovering from kidney surgery, which should also tell you about
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: how much he valued his mom. Just coming off sexual
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: healing and the tour, and he said, I'm moving home
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to take care of mom.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: All about his mother, all about this mom.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: So he moved into his parents' place at twenty one
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: oh one South Grammercy Place. That's the home he bought
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: for them. He's actually, by this point he's bought two
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: homes for them and a bunch of other stuff. But
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: he that for them ten years earlier. Now, while he
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: was staying there, his father was pretty much absent. He
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: just wasn't there. And in October of that year, his
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: dad returned from a business trip. I think the business
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: part of it was the insurance part. But he went
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: to d C where he purchased insurance on his family's
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: previous home there. Now, if he gives you any idea
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: of what it was like, Marvin's two sisters, Gene and Zola,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: or Ziola lived in the house before Senior returned, and
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: they promptly moved out because of the growing conflict between
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: Senior and Junior. When he became back, they left.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it was great.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it has to be so happy. On top
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: of everything else going on, and I mean everything else
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: going on, Marvin was struggling with that addiction, and his
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: battle with addiction and his mental health spiraled into dark,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: a dark, chaotic storm. He he he should have been
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: able to count. So the thing for me is that
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: he should have been able to count on some solitude
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: at home. It should have been a place where he
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: could be Marvin. But it wasn't any better at home.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: He couldn't do that either, and his cocaine use was
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: on and off for years. He ramped it up a
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: ton after his eighty two comeback. He became increasingly erratic
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: and he was consumed by paranoia. Due to this, he
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: was convinced people were out to kill him, and some
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: of the things that he did. He started wearing a
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: bulletproof vest off stage. He had armed bodyguards with him Constantly.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: During a performance, he insisted lighting be adjusted because he
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: thought someone in the audience might shoot him. He held
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: a televised press conference in nineteen eighty three claiming someone
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: was trying to poison him, and he sometimes put on
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: three overcoats and would also put his shoes on the
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: wrong foot or feet. His paranoia, which was not assisted
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: at all, but the cocaine became all encompassing. Yeah, he
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: was addicted, deeply depressed. He had unchecked delusions, and from
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: August of nineteen eighty three up until around March or
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: April of eighty four, Marvin and his father had a
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: hard time keeping their distance from each other. During one
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: fight at the house in late nineteen eighty three, his
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: dad actually called the police to have Marvin leave the property,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: and Marvin ended up staying with one of his sisters
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: until he returned to his parents' house.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: And is that from my wine pore jaded wonder, he said,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: terrors providing some ASMR my mic picks up everything.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: No, that is what it is. It's totally But Marvin
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: ended up staying with one of his sisters until he
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: returned home, and he told his friend quote, after all,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: I have just one father. I want to make peace
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: with him.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess talking about a man that doesn't
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: deserve any any forgetness that senior I'm talking about here
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: because I have that guy.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: But oh, Marvin gave his Christmas Day nineteen eighty three,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: Marvin actually gave his father a splitting Wesson thirty eight
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: special pistol so that he could protect himself from intruders.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: By this point, Marvin was suicidal and paranoid. He was
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: afraid to leave his room and spoke of little else
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: other than suicide and death.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't think I don't understand why he
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: bought this gun for his dad, Like would you buy
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: a gun for your abuser? Like, I know he's all
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: choked out of his mind right now, but like, why
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: would you buy Who's an older guy at this point?
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: Like what?
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's two trains of thought on this one. He did,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: and he bought it for the reason he bought it.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: But his siblings and other people, a good chunk of
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: other people think that he bought this for his father
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: because he knew at some point his father was going
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: to use it on him, and he was suicidal and
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: it was kind of like suicide by cop, but it
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: was his dad. Yeah, And so there is that thought
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: that seems to almost be agreed upon, but I have
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: a I'm not sure. I don't know. We don't know
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: enough about that anyway.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: Don't Everyone can have their guns in the house all
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: you want, but like, if you're living with somebody who's
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: abusing you, who has a history of abuse, violent, do
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: not bring a gun to that house because it's not
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: going to go well for you. It's you're not going
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: to use it the way that you think. All right,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: it's way more dangerous to have a gun in the
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: house and that sort of volatile situation.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: So yes, And Marvin was, I mean, he was suicidal
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: four days before he died. On March twenty eighth, nineteen
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: eighty three, he attempted to kill himself by jumping out
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: of a speeding sports Now. I don't know what angel
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: was with him that day, because he only suffered minor
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: bruises like iron Man, but that was just four days before.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: His sister said that there wasn't a doubt that he
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: wanted to die and he couldn't take anymore. And honestly,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: I wonder if you would have felt that way if
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: his home, like I had mentioned, if it wasn't contentious
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: or abusive with that father son more every single day.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: I don't help. Yeah, you know, because he probably I mean,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: he's a grown ass man by now. But like I'm
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: sure with those dynamics, like it's actually a lot different
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: than we may think, Like he probably kind of reverted
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: a little bit back into his childhood self. Yeah, it's
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: very complicated, complicated dynamic we have going on here.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: It is, And the fact that his father didn't change,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: grow mature, or get better means that Marvin goes back
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: to what he was under the roof of that man.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: So March thirty first, nineteen eighty four, Senior was looking
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: for an insurance document and he couldn't find it, and
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: I think it has to do with the insurance on
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: the house in DC. But he got into a tiff
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: with Alberta about it, which Marvin did not like, and
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: the arguments between Senior and Alberta spread to Marvin and
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: to his bedroom, and Marvin was angry. Marvin was pissed
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: that his dad was confronting his mom in the way
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: he was, and Marvin asked his dad to leave her alone.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: Senior at that point did comply and there wasn't any
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: violence that night, but Marvin continued, sorry, Senior continued to
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: yell throughout the house. Now April first, nineteen eighty four.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: At twelve thirty pm on April first, Marvin Senior shouted
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: upstairs to his wife about the document again. And Marvin
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: shouted downstairs and told his dad that if he had
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: something to say, he should do it in person. He
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: should come up and talk like a human being. And
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: at that point, Marvin's in his robe, which you know,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: I think we can all connect with always, right, right, right,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: So Senior refused his request. Marvin warned him not to
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: come into his room. Senior chose to run upstairs and
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: he started. He started yelling at Alberta again about the
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: missing document in Marvin's room. So Marvin said, don't yell
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: at mom. So he decided, like a two year old,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: to go exactly to where the person saying don't yell
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: is and yell doing the complete opposite of what he said,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: right right, So Marvin jumped out of his bed and
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: ordered his father out of the room. This is a
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: grown ass adult, right, a six foot one, grown ass
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: adult saying get out of my room. And the order
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: didn't work, so Marvin shoved his father out of the
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: room into the hallway and admittedly shouldn't have continued on
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: with kicking and punching, but did. Alberta said two quotes
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: that pretty much sum the rest of this up. She said,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: Marvin hit him. I shouted for him to stop, but
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: he paid no attention to me. He gave my husband
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: some hard kicks. Senior went to his room figure outed
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: the thirty eight special that Marvin got him, and Alberta says,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: I was standing about eight feet away from Marvin when
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: my husband came to the door of the bedroom with
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: his pistol. My husband didn't say anything, He just pointed
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: the gun at Marvin. I screamed, but it wasn't very
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: quick or sorry, but it was very quick. He my
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: husband shot, and Marvin screamed. I tried to run. Marvin
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: slid down to the floor after the first shot.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: You know, in that house when he talks about his bedroom,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: he actually slept in the same room as Alberta, which
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: is kind of weird, but like also it seems weird,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: but considering all the the trauma and the dynamics, like
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: that makes sense. And I guess like her and Senior,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: like they haven't even slept in the same bedroom in
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: like ten years. Like they were basically like, yeah, not
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: together in case anyone was wondering, why are they in
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: like others roumins that, like what's going on here?
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think I think it was a combination.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think I think he he
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: wanted to make sure his his mom was protected. I
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: think also she was recovering from that kidney yes operation.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: Because that face wasn't going to do it.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: No, and he wasn't even there for half the time.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that that's that. You're right, Yeah,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: he was so yep.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: So I think that was like him. Also, another reason
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: why he was very confrontational with senior as well in
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: that moment is because like his love and protection of
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: his mother was up upfront and center, you know. But anyway, Okay,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: so the shooting took place around twelve thirty eight pm.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: Marvin's Senior had fired the first shot into his son
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: Marvin and then walked over to him and filed fired
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: another shot point blink into his chest. Okay, because he's
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: a great world's greatest dad over here, world's greatest dad.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: So Marvin's brother Frankie ran towards the sounds of the
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: shots while his wife called nine one one, and the
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: paramedics refused to go into the house until Marvin Senior
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: told them where the gun was, and the gun was
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: hidden under Marvin Senior's pillow, because of course that's the
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: best place died anything sure, right, you know, And that
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: is typical, by the way, if you don't know, that
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: is typical of emt not entering a permanent premises if
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: there's a gun, they will not enter no matter what
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: until police have secured that location, period. And that could
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: very well be the reason why he well, it didn't help. Well,
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: just put it that way. I don't want to say
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know the autopsis. I don't want to say
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: that like he had a chance. He probably didn't, to
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: be quite honest, but it didn't help.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that point, playing shot hit hit the wrong place,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: you know, And I don't know if there was a shot,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: But the fact that he wouldn't tell them and then
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: that kept the paramedics from going in is very indicative
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: of the fact that at some point he did think
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: about this and how to be a little had.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: The gun covers tracks? Oh wait till you guys get
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: to a lot of you are about to be fired
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: up in about five minutes, by the way, So all right.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: So Marvin was taken to the hospital and was pronounced
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: dead at one oh one PM. The world was in
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: shock to learn that Marvin had been shot by his
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: own father, and saddened by the fact that a man
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: with so much talent was gone. But seriously, with Marvin
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: still fighting his drug addiction and his father, a functioning
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: alcoholic who we also know was an abuser, living in
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: the same house with a gun, it was really only
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: a matter of time before things really started to boil over. Unfortunately,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: you know, Marvin's bodyguard, Andre White, had told an author
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: that the shooting was a sue side as JT said earlier,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: like a suicide by cop situation, except suicide by his dad,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: which is incredibly sad when you think about thinking about that.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: Marvin had wanted to kill himself, you know, the month before.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: But oh, I'm sorry, this is what Andre said. Andre said,
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: Marvin had wanted to kill himself the month before, but
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: he did not have the guts, so he got his
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: dad to shoot him.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: I'm not happy with the way Andre word that. It's
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: not appropriate. Andre, but this is those times, you guys,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: all right, So, so Marvin Senior had told his sign,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: Marvin Senior, this wonderful guy, I told his son, if
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: you ever raise a hand to me, I will kill you.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: He he told Marvin, He told all the siblings, he
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: told his wife. They all attested to the fact that
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: he said that.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: Mm hm. You guys all remember this for in just
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: a few minutes, you remember all this bullshit? Okay, guys.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: So Marvin's fan fans, of course, the whole world really
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: started to warn his loss. At a memorial service in
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: Hollywood Hills that is said to have had over ten
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: thousand people in attendance, Smokey Robinson and Stevie Wonder both
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: delivered the eulogies for their friend, and Marvin was cremated
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: and his ashens were scattered into the Pacific Ocean. So
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: Marvin Senior was arrested after killing his son while sitting
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: on his front porch, and he was charged with first
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: degree murder. Right, we all know what first degree murder is, right,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: little premedit. You have to have some premeditation in there,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: and he's shown now. Some people think premeditation means a
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: lot of long term thinking. No, that's not what it means.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: There's several examples of free meditation that I just said
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: to you guys. Okay, see the delaying of the gun,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: hiding the gun, threatening like I will kill you, all
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: that shit. All right, all works. He knew the one
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: person that never wanted him could kill him. Yeah, it's
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: like I said, you sit and think about it for
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: a few minutes. Holdly, shit, it's some dark, deep stuff,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: you know. So and get this all right? If Senior
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: wasn't asshole enough, okay. In a jail house interview, Marvin
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: Senior told a reporter that quote, I pulled the trigger
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: and the first one didn't seem to bother him, so
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: I fired again. That's called premeditation, you guys. There there's
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: one example. You don't even need that many examples of
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: it for a case. Okay.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of shit that he says after being
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: arrested where you're just like, what the fuck? So wow.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: So Senior was held at Los Angeles County Jail on
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars one hundred thousand dollars bail, which,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: by the way.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: I did to the man, that's only three hundred and
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: eleven thousand dollars in today's money.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: That's which a bond is ten percent, right, Candy, I
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: think isn't it isn't like yeah, okay. So, according to him,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: he only pulled the trigger after he was attacked and
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: he thought there were bebes or blanks in there, in
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: which case I give it four massive eye rolls.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: What about the second shot? Did the first one look
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: like a baby or a blank to you, senior? No,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: get out of here.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: Well, And he also said that he said he said
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: that I don't know if I even put it in here,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: but he said that he shot and Marvin continued towards him,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: So he shot again when he was in the hall
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: all retreating. But the autopsy showed very much different, which
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: was he got shot in the shoulder, and then the
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: next one was point blank and Marvin was on the bed,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: so he approached his son on the bed to shoot
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: him a second time. Sorry, buddy, here here if you're
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: not pissed yet. At the same time, when detectives asked
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: if he loved his son, his response was, and I quote,
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: let's say I didn't dislike him.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: Ah, father of the freaking year over here, John, I
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: hate this guy gets me fired up. I hate this
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: guy so much. I see what happens. Uh.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: During during the period in which the trial was coming together,
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: Senior went through a checkup as one does you know,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: uh for being in jail at the County USC Medical centers.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: At this point?
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so, yeah, yeah, years old. They they
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: found a benign tumor at the base of his brain.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: Now this was removed on May seventeenth, eighty four, probably
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: at the taxpayer dollar. But on June twelfth, Judge Michael
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: Paroche reviewed two psychiatric evaluations and ruled that Senior was
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: competent to stand trial. He was ordered to return on
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: July sixteenth for a prelim hearing. After everything, and after
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: divorcing him literally the day he shot Marvin, it was
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: Alberta who posted the reduced bail of thirty thousand dollars. Again,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: it was only two days earlier. Sorry it wasn't the
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: same time, but it was only two days earlier that
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: she filed to divorce him before she paid that bail.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is crazy. Leaden Gray says the father's childhood
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: would be interesting. You know, we did cover that a
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: little bit. He too, is from very abusive family. I
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: mean a thirteen abusive father, it wasn't good. But and
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: Alberta as well. Actually she also came from abusive family
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: where like her dad like shoot off shots at her
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: mom and crazy, crazy things. It was not a good
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: time for either one of them, you know. Well, Alberta
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: was never ever reported to be abusive to the children.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: I think seeing what she saw as a young girl
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: might have made Senior's behavior normalized in a sense, you know,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: like to her, like that's what she saw from her parents,
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: Like so why because she was what twenty when she
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: met him, Like she's a baby, you know, and she
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: had a kid. Oh oh god, I hate it so much. Anyway,
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: let's go on and get more angry.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: Let's go so so ada as judges are wont to do.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: Judge Ronald M. George, which is quite the Happy Day's name.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: If you had documents of the case, he saw the
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: amount of drugs and Marvin's system, and he saw the
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: pictures of seniors injuries during the final fight with his son. Now,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: due to this, Senior was.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: Senior was granted the ability to plea bargain UH on
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: September twentieth, nineteen eight.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: Should kicked him hard. He should kicked him a whole
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: lot harder.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, oh, you're not wrong. On the September twentieth,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, he pleaded no contest to a voluntary
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: manslaughter charge.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, from first degree murder, you guys, to voluntary manslatter
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: because of the amount of cocaine that was in Gay's
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: system that he was too scary for this jimpy kids
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: and women sober.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the forensics say that he lied the cocaine. I'm
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: so sorry, but cocaine doesn't stop a bullet, so I'm
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: not exactly sure what that mattered. To be honest, if
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: he lied about the order of shots and the way
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: that that happened, then he probably lied about a good
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: chunk of other things too. So how are we to
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: consider his testimony reasonable or not? So I don't know
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: what this judge was doing anyways. So during the sentence
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: in hearing, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah so no November, second
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: Judge Gordon Ringer sentenced him to a grand total of
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: six year suspended sentence in five years of probation. What
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: what During this During sentencing hearing, Senior said the following,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: and I have a rant. Right after this, he said quote.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: If I could bring him back, I would. I was
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: afraid of him. I thought I was going to get hurt.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what was going to happen. I'm really
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: sorry for everything that happened. I loved him. I wish
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: he could step through this door right now. I'm paying
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: the price. Now does he believe that?
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: Does anyone believe that?
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: At first?
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: Know?
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't. You're in trouble, but not really. You're not
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: really paying a price. What you got was a free
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: operation out of it. I'm pissed. He created Marvin, both
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: initially like and through the early years of his life.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: He created that singer. He brought him to church to
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: sing in front of people, He paraded him around and
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: just because it's non liturgical music, he's got a problem.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: All of a sudden, he caused some of the reaction
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: that he had. Now, what was Marvin supposed to think
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: when he came into his room that he was going
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: to sit down for a pow wow? I really don't
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: think so. I don't think so. There was a gun
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: in his hand. I just I don't think so. Legally,
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: the reaction was strong, and there was plenty of public debate.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: It seemed many thought the adequacy of the punishment was
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: an issue, even given the circumstances that were testified to
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: I would say so now in addition, like I said,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: I did mention this earlier, but I'll just say it
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: one more time. The first shot, despite some reports, went
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: to his shoulder and knocked him down. The second shot,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: the fatal one, was shot point blank range, which means
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: his father approached Marvin. That means to me he had
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: a moment to think about what he was going to do.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: So even now, decades later, it's really hard for me
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: to justify the judge's sentencing. Even though he was an
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: older man who had a brain tumor, he still got up,
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: got his gun shot, his son approached again and shot again.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and I don't particularly care for his
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: bitching of Oh, I was afraid he hurt me after
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: he spent years, years hurting his family, and your little coward.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: You are a coward, senior, disgusting little man.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: Justice.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: I'm so angry when I because again I knew that
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: I knew that Marvin was murdered by his father. I
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: had no idea that his father was like because seventy
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: is not I mean, some people consider seventy old. Seventy
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: is not that old. Okay, he had a brain tumor,
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: that wasn't what was making him be an asshole for
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: the last seven years. Okay, Like I just I cannot
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: believe a suspended sentence and just probation for that. And
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: you know, I guess if Marvin was thinking like suicide
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: by dad, he didn't get justice, if that was his case, Like,
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: if that's what he was trying to do to punish
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: his father from the grave, I don't know. But like
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: the fact that this man abused four children, his wife,
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: it's a garbage, freaking human being murders her, his son
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: literally in cold blood. Okay, the first shot is your
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: one self defense. That's it. You get one. You went
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: back to him and shot him in your chest, your namesake,
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: nonetheless your namesake, but a disgusting, disgusting little man. Rant over.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: I hope he's in a not great place.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: Don't bite him, oh guaranteed. Keep that guy freaking what.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: A garbage And he had everything, his son pay for
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: everything for him, he could hold a job. He's worthless.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: It's the worthless trash person.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: His son bought his dad a Caddie to make up,
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: which he didn't need to make up. Marvin didn't need
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: to make up with dad. His dad needed to make
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: up with him, and and and and and the fact
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: that Marvin thought that he was the problem is just
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: a it's so sad, perfect. It's just a perfect example
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: of somebody who is abused like that thinking that they're
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: the issue. And I'm gonna be honest with you, it
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: pisses me off that it wasn't until Marvin was dead
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: and his dad was on the docket that they cared
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: about Marvin's depression and suicide. Nobody cared about it before
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: he was shot. Nobody gave a shit about how Marvin felt.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: All of a sudden, Marvin took two bullets, and they're
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: saying exactly, they're saying that because when he was sidl
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: it wasn't that big of a deal. Well, I just
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: can't I Oh, it makes me so angry.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: So yeah, just because he had talked about wanting to
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: die does not mean it is okay to murder him.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: Those are two very different things. And we don't know
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: if it was suicide by dad or not. You know,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: That's the thing, is I kind of wonder if maybe
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: it actually wasn't that. I know a lot of people
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: think that, and maybe when he bought the gun it was.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: But again, he moved back home to take care of
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: his dying mother, who is now alive. All right, She's
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: had her kidneys, are back working. She does on to
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: live for like a while. You know, he moved back
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: to take care of her. Why would he want to
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: die leaving her with his father? You know, I just
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: wonder if you know, I just I don't know. I
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: don't know about that. I don't know why it happened.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: It's all so so sad.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: Anyways, senseless are Here are some of the reactions from
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: friends and folks that we've heard of and that he
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: knew and before I do that. The saddest part of
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: all of this is that some folks thought it was
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: a joke, that it couldn't have been real. And the
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: reason for that is because it happened on April first,
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: which is April Fool's Day. It's like the worst time
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: to be murdered. Not that there's a good time, but
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Otis Williams from The Temptations
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: said it was a very dark day that I will
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: never forget as the day I lost a friend. Smokey
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: Robinson heard the news and said that he felt his
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: innards wouldn't accept the news. Uh, Jermaine Jackson, I know, yeah,
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: it is weird, but uh, he's He's right. So one
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: of one of Marvin's wives was was an aunt to
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: Jermaine Jackson. So Jermaine Jackson, who was a former nephew
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: in law. Yes, Sobbed heard yes, and he called Barry White,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: which you know what that is a crazy sentence to read.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: Jermaine Jackson heard the news and called Barry White confirmed
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: the story. Yeah. V H one ended up listing his
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: death as the eighth most shocking moment in Rock and roll.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: I think it's pretty d I don't know what thank
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: you to find that. I don't know what death is
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: actually more now that I know about this one, this
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: is extremely shocking. Like I'm gonna go with I bet,
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: I'll bet Elvis or Kobain is probably number one, would
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: be my guess because it's VH one and this is
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: from like the odds, But I couldn't imagine the devastation
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: in the community.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: It's before I continue. It's really interesting to see some
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: photos because you can tell some things were developed for
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: a standard TV and not widescreen. This is what I.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: So in addition to that, full page ads were taken
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: out following his funeral, declaring that he was quote the
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: greatest of his time. I would say one of the
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: greatest of all time. After his death, the home at
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: Grammercy Place had memorabilion other items on the lawn. Vigials
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: were held there until the next day, which was We
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: didn't say this yet, but April second was was Marvin's birthday.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: You're paying attention. He was killed the day before his
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: forty fifth birthday, forty four. I don't know, I'm not
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: the best of math, but yeah, the day before his birthday,
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: just so by his own father. Yeah, it's like a
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: great track.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: Like you know, a lot of bands, a lot of
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: individual artists released a lot of songs in memory of him.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: Diana Ross was one of those people who released Missing
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: You as a tribute to Marvin. And there's just you know,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: we can say what we will about cocaine and addiction
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: and but the bottom line is ultimately Marvin was a
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: good guy. He was a good guy. I mean, cocaine
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: doesn't make you a bad guy. Uh, just because you
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: were an addiction doesn't make you a bad person. It
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: means you're struggling. But a lot of times, you know,
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, there there are it just sounds it just
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: seems like he was a nice dude.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: You know what he wasn't He wasn't his fucking dad. Yeah,
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: as far as I know, as far as I know,
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: I haven't read everything on Marvin, but like, at least
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: when it comes to l and he may not have
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: been like the greatest partner. I mean, he obviously had
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: relationship issues with multiple divorces in kids, but like he
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: wasn't like his father in the sense that you know,
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: he he loved and.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: He just it's just what I just saw it. But
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: that flower arrangement to the right says love, Diana Ross.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: I know, I know, right, you can tell me I don't,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: I know, right.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: So you did a good job late, I'll tell you
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: right now and front of everybody in the world. Great job.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: Oh anyway, So let's talk about the legacy and cultural
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: aspect of Martin while we wrap up Perre. Okay, So,
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: Marvin Gay was a transformer figure in soul in R
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: and B obviously, and he earned earned the Moniker a
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: Prince of Soul without a doubt. He was posthumously introduced
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame shutout
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: Ohio in nineteen eighty seven. Yeah, I will shut out
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: Ohio every chance I get. We have the Roll Hall
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: of Fame, which you've got nothing, just kidding. So he
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: was inducted in nineteen eighty seven, which I don't know
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: a lot about inductions, but that seems pretty close to
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: his time of death, which usually it seems to take
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: a really long time, even posthumously to be recognized by them.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: So like it seemed like he kind of made it
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: in there pretty quickly.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: But it was a thing. So a lot of things
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: regarding the induction process, it just seems like there's a
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: lot of politics involved. A lot of people get frustrated
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: with that whole situation.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know if it was like.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, I mean it's trying to trying to
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: find a list of trying to find the the inductees
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: for nineteen eighty seven. That okay, well while you look at.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: That, continue Yeah, okay. So Gay used his music as
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: a platform for activism, addressing systemic injustice inequality and the
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: black experience in America. His work inspired generations of artists
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: to infuse their music with purpose and protest. Remember what's
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: going on? His great anti war anthem there. So Stevie
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: Wonder praised mar And as a musical prophet, which is
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: saying something okay, and often cited him and often cited
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: Marvin Freaking Gay as a deep influence on his own
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: evolution as an artist. Stevie Freaking Wonder, like Amazing Prince
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: credited Marvin Gay as a major influence on both his
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: vocal style and lyrical depth. I mean, numerous artists across
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: genres from Alicia Keys to Usher have paid tribute to
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: his legacy, and they're in their music and performances like
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: I mean Stevie Wander and Prince like, that's that's pretty.
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: It's pretty good.
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: Massive. Yeah. So nineteen eighty seven, Aretha Franklin was inducted
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: Marvin Gay, Bill Haley and Bill Haley in the comments
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: and BBK, so that was quite the soulful year for real,
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: and I it was that that's pretty. I mean, that's
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: pretty damn appropriate. So oh wait, hold on, somebody copied
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: and pasted. Oh would you look at this. This also
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: included the coasters. Bo Diddley was in there. I'm trying
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: to see other people that Yeah, Smokey Robinson, Muddy Waters,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: uh T, bone Walker, Hank Williams, a bunch of people.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: of sense why they gave him that year considering we
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: learned that he worked with like four of us old people.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: So that does make sense now why he was introduced
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: induced inducted not induced. We're not having a baby over here, and.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: It could be might be.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: Sometimes oh againness anyway, So Marvin Gay's death left a
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: lasting scar. Okay, it redefined what it means to lose
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: a hero, right. It gave a face, a famous, beloved
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: face because he was a cute kad and a good
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: looking gentleman always. I did not find a bad photo
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: of him.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 4: Like I'm just saying, I know why. This guy wrote
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 4: a lot of like love songs, if you know what
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 4: I mean, right, But like.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: Listen, it gave a face to often the hidden realities
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: of generational trauma, domestic violence, and unresolved pain within families. Okay,
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: for survivors of abuse, it was probably validating but also
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: triggering all at once for the public. It was a
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: moment of reckoning, you know, because how does public deal
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: deal with not only a superstar being murdered by their father,
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: but then they also find out about Marvin's struggles. Right,
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: this hero turns out to be a flawed one with
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: addiction and mental health issues and suicidal ideation. And that's
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: a lot to take it, you know, at the time.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: But you know, Marvin Gay wasn't just a musician. I know,
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: we talked a lot about today, but he wasn't. But
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: he was within his music, he was a messenger, Okay.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: His voice carried the weight of civil rights, heartache, spirituality,
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: and social change. His music spook truth, pain, and healing.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, those are like some of the titles of
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: the songs, now that they think about it. And then
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: in a moment, all right, in one little moment, that
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: voice was silenced not by an enemy but by family,
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: which is statistically usually what happens. But it's the fact
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: that it was by someone who should have protected him. No,
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, oh god, I Hateen. You're so watched. I
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: don't even want to say stupid an anymore. Let's not
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: talk about him anymore. But anyway, Mark Okay, okay. Marvin
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: Gay's death reminds us that domestic violence doesn't discriminate, all right,
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter your social class, your education, your race, your sex,
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: your gender, your sexuality, none of that matters. Okay when
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: it comes to domestic violence period. You know, domestic violence
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: steals futures, is silence, voices, and these millions of us
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: creating over someone we never personally knew but somehow feel
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: deeply connected to. Okay, I will say, after researching yeah,
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 2: after researching Marvin, you know, and and his success and
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: and his his failures, his life failures, like I feel
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 2: like I know him a lot more and that I
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: can relate to him so much, and I think so
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: many people around the world, and even as you know,
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: he's been dead for a well, I'm gonna say my
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: age here, but I was born the year after he
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: He's forty one years ago. Shut up, JT. Nobody asked you.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: I was doing the math before you said.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: I just kidding because I was like, I was born
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: like a year later. So that's why I was like, shot,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: don't do that.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: Ye see, you'll look like you're twenty six. So you're fine, Okay,
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: thank you.
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: It is the Big Four. Oh this year, you guys.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: But you know, to this day, when we hear What's
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: going on or Mercy, Mercy Me another beautiful song by him,
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: it's impossible not to feel the weight of both his
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: genius and his loss. You know, we we more not
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: just what we lost, but like how we lost it,
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: you know, like what if he never bought his dad
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: back gun? What if he didn't live with his parents,
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: what if he would have gotten his mom away from
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: his dad? You know, it's a whole lot of what
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: I've said. I am not victim blaming, okay, because this
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: situation was complex, a f like it was some deep
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: psychological trauma. Crazy. I don't even know if anybody actually
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: could have I don't think Alberta and Marvin could have
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: done those things. Be perfectly honest with you, okay, But
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: you know we don't have to remember him not only
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: for the music he gave us, but for the pain
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: he endured, Okay, And we must carry forward the conversation
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: he started, you know, about love, about justice, and most
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: importantly about healing. You know, because when Marvin Gay died,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: the music didn't just stop. It was stolen from all
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: of us, and the silence. It left behind echoes today
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: in my opinion, So.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I like what you said, you know
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: about the messages and healing, but you know, not just
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: healing healing.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: It was so hard not to make that shoke. While
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: I was saying that we're I was like, Tara, this
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: is wildly inappropriate. Don't do it.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: Don't do it, and did so just listen, I we hear.
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: Obviously you can tell we're very passionate about some of
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: these things. Now, domestic violences is absolutely devastating, and it
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: is often it's a silent epidemic that that affects individuals
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: of all backgrounds, regardless of age, gender, socio economic status.
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: It thrives in secrecy and fear, leaving survivors feeling isolated
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: and powerless. But it is important to remember that abuse
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: is never justified and help is available. Speaking up can
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: save lives, and if you or someone you know is
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: experiencing domestic violence, please reach out for support. You can
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: contact National Domestic Violence Hotline at one eight hundred and
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: seventy nine to nine safe which is seven two three three,
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: or you can visit Theehotline dot org for confidential help
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: twenty four to seven one of my favorite things that
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: they've added. You wish you didn't have to, but you
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: know you're not always alone to call, and some people
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: control phones, yes, but you can text begin to eight
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: eight seven eight eight. No one, I repeat, no one
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: deserves to live in fear, and everyone has the right
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: to feel safe in their own homes at all times.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: So please please please heed that. You know, if there's
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: anything that you've you've heard tonight, hear that from us.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I'll just say real quick, but
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: you know, Marvin's story is not a unique one, Okay.
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: The statistics are not in anyone's favor when it comes
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: to domestic issues. Okay, so find some safety. There are
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: people to how because I don't we don't want to
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: cover your story to quite honest, like, let's avoid having
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: to cover your story on a true crime and one time.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: Please, okay, I want to see you at a live show.
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: I don't want to.
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: See you in the newspaper exactly exactly.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: So to kind of close out from both of us,
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: listen for me. In the end, the story of Marvin
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: Gaye's life and death. It's as heartbreaking as it is infuriating.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: A musical genius was brought down not not just by
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: fame and addiction and inner demons, but ultimately by the
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: very person who should have protected him. It's it's really
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: hard not to wonder what might have been if Marvin
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: had found the peace in life that his music brought
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: to millions. And while while it's tempting to side eye
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: Marvin Gay Senior's suspended sentence and quietly muttered really under
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: our breath, I will check, I will sign off on it,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: we're ultimately left grappling with a much larger, messier truth
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: that trauma breeds trauma. It's not an excuse, it's an explanation.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: I like to say that it is not an excuse.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: It's an explanation. Trauma breeds trauma. Silence protects absolutely no one,
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: and even icons can fall victim to the same cycle
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: that many others do. And I hope, ultimately, and I
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: think Marvin would think this too, I hope that his
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: legacy is a reminder of the brilliance he gave us,
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: but also the darkness that too often goes unspoken.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I don't. I don't have much in
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: the way of closing thoughts, because, like I feel like
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: I've already said a lot of things. But also you know,
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: I'm still like, as I said, I just learned about this,
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: and much like some of you guys probably like, I'm
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: still processing this whole situation because it's not a black
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: and white situation.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: You know, did did?
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: Was this a suicide by Dad's situation? Like, it's just
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 2: it's just so it's a lot that I'm going to
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: be thinking about for a while, you know, But I
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: just want to end. I'll end with this, all right.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: So Marvin's greatest question was always what's going on? And
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: perhaps that's the question we all must keep asking about abuse,
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 2: about violence, about what we carry and what we pass
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: on to the next generation, and about forgiveness. And that's
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: all I really have to say about that.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: I have for now.
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 2: I'm sure anybody that is in the discord, marvel, was
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: you just hear me ranting about how senior? Because I
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: can't believe that. It blows my frig in mind. But anyway,
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: thank you guys for all coming the show. Don't forget Okay,
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: this Sunday at nine p in the Eastern if you
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: enjoyed my presence, maybe you haven't heard me before, but
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: anyone with JT and Terry on Sundays where we cover
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: the Zizzy and cult. You guys, it's freaking crazy, So
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: be sure to watch us Sunday at nine pm Eastern
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: and for part five the Curtis Lynn Tail. And oh
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: you thought you thought I was a teeny bit worked up,
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 2: you guys. I'm gonna be worked up on Sunday.
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, I have been reading the notes and I am
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: worked up. But also we do have a special guest
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: and you'll have to wait to find out who that is.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: You. We do have a special a special guest.
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, super.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: Now, if you guys have you know we cover all
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: sorts of cases here on True Crime and Wine Time,
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: So if you guys have any case suggestions like, we
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: are always open to hearing them and we might prioritize them.
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: So if you have one, go ahead and email me
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: at Tara T A r A at TCW Media at
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: TCW t N E d i A dot com and
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: just send your case suggestions and we'll look into it
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: and probably add it to the schedule. It might be
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: a few months, but we'll get there.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: And I mean, if you're listening on the podcast, the
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: same thing goes for you, you know, send Tara an
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: email Tara at tcwtmedia dot com. Just because you're not
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: watching on YouTube. If you're interested in a case and
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: you want to hear us cover it, we will cover
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: it because you're going to get the audio version. It
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: might not have the visuals, but that's okay.
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: We love our potties. Is that what they're called? Potties?
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: And now everyone has unsubscribed?
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: Wait literally, but like j.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: Open and look backstage up a sign that says I quit.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: I saw that a little bit earlier while you were
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: doing your concluding bit, and she's not. I'm refusing the
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: informal quitting.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: Uh no.
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: But honestly, in my five years of podcasting, I've never
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: heard them called that by anybody at all ever. Potties.
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: Uh but I will say this, having called you potties
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: and and live streamys, please please like and subscribe and
• 1:53:57
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• 1:54:03
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• 1:54:07
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• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: the podcast gods get us more listeners into more listeners
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: ears and hopefully be seen by more listeners eyes. The
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: more the better. Now, I want to tell you the
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: channel is going to be taking our own version of
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: spring Break next week, so there's going to be I know, right, it's.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: Interested development jump for you guys that are just listening
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: with no visuals, but go ahead.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I think our people are going to become call bodies.
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: Terry might have something to say about that later. Anyways,
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: there's going to be no Midday Missing or our Thursday
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: True Crown Winetime show next week, but we will be
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: back the following Sunday, April thirteenth, at nine pm Eastern
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: to continue our Zizian's unveiled coverage.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 2: So this SUNDAYU me, I'm sorry, go ahead, my apologies.
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: I was just gonna let everybody know because I forgot.
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 2: When True Crime and Wine Tang does resume back, we
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: will be covering the missing case of Trevor Neally from Ireland.
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: It's very oh you guys, I'm excited to start getting
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 2: into it. It is very it's unsolid. It's gonna we
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: don't cover a lot of mystery cases, so this is
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: a big deal. That's what we'll be back with in
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: two weeks on Thursday.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 1: For there's a lot of liprecun holes in that one. Okay,
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: as like the worst Irish accent ever.
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: We're canceled.
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: We I canceled myself. So again. We will have Zizians
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: this Sunday and then nothing until the following Sunday because
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: we'll be on our spring break and everybody needs some
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: time to re form their brain for melting after this
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: many weeks. Uh so yeah, yeah, Dared, do you wanna
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: you want to give us the old sign off?
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 3: With that?
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: I want to say thank you to everyone that came
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: here tonight and for being with us and listening to
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: me instead of the wonderful and glorious Terry. I'm so
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: thankful she asked me to fill in with her. I
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: hope I did a good job and made a prap.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: But until next time, go forth and be amazing. Fingerhearts
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: in the chat.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, thank you so much for tuning in.
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: Take care of yourselves, your friend's family, community. Do not
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: let anybody do all that sparkle. Don't shine brightlightly no
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: matter what, shine on, shine on you crazy and I
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: mean it crazy diamonds all of you you do that,
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: and I'll I can't do a diamond. I how do
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 1: I do a diamond like that.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: You love wrestling and you don't know how to do
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: a diamond.
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the diamond cutter. Yeah, I guess I could
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: do that. Sure, it's been a long day. It's been
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: a long day, Tara, it's been a long day. You
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: know what I se you crazy diamonds. All right, we
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: will see you guys Sunday.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 4: M h.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: M m hm m hm