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CRUISE SHIP ANNA KEPNER ASSAULTED, STRANGLED, STEP-BRO UNMASKED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:06
Speaker 2: The cruise ship girl, teen Anna Kettner scrubbed in Sunshine.
0:12
Speaker 2: Tonight we learn was sex assaulted before she was mechanically
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Speaker 2: strangled dead on the cruise ship, and tonight for the
0:23
Speaker 2: first time that step brother of hers unmasked, we see
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Speaker 2: his face for the first time. Now he is indicted.
0:33
Speaker 2: I'mancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank
0:35
Speaker 2: you for being with us. A beautiful young teen cheerleader
0:40
Speaker 2: found dead on a cruise ship, her body there for
0:43
Speaker 2: hours and hours before anyone even notices she's missing.
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Speaker 1: Where were the parents? For Pete's sake?
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Speaker 2: It happened, all right, and it is a torpedo to
0:54
Speaker 2: the defense all this time, family friends, the media, legal
1:00
Speaker 2: legals like you waiting for an answer in the brutal
1:04
Speaker 2: murder of Anna Katner, her body found nude, wrapped up
1:08
Speaker 2: in blankets and stuffed under a twin bed on the cruise.
1:14
Speaker 1: Ship, then stuffed on top of that life jacket.
1:19
Speaker 2: Someone desperately trying to conceal her body until a maid
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Speaker 2: comes the following morning to clean the room and makes
1:26
Speaker 2: the discovery. The horrific discovery of a teen girl dead
1:29
Speaker 2: stuffed under a bed tonight. Finally will there be justice?
1:37
Speaker 2: Sidney Silvani Crime Stories, investigative reporter.
1:40
Speaker 1: What happened? Is it true?
1:41
Speaker 2: According to federal documents? And the Feds don't play. Let
1:46
Speaker 2: me tell you we.
1:48
Speaker 1: Kept wondering why they were waiting and waiting and waiting.
1:51
Speaker 1: As a former FED, I can tell you this.
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Speaker 2: We wouldn't take one toe to the courtroom even close
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Speaker 2: to it unless we had rooms full of boxes of documents.
2:02
Speaker 2: So now there's an indictment. Is it true, Sidney Sumner
2:07
Speaker 2: that the documents reveal she was sex assaulted before she
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Speaker 2: was strangled?
2:12
Speaker 3: That's correct.
2:14
Speaker 4: Timothy Hudson is accused of sexually assaulting and then killing
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Speaker 4: his stepsister Anna Kepner.
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Speaker 3: And we know that these charges actually came down, but
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Speaker 3: the record was sealed until Friday.
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Speaker 5: The problem I have with all of this is is
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Speaker 5: purported that all these family members stayed in the same room.
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Speaker 5: How is it if you're with your father that you
2:41
Speaker 5: go to sleep as a dad and you don't see
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Speaker 5: your daughter and she's not in the room. That just
2:48
Speaker 5: doesn't sit right with me as an investigator starting to
2:51
Speaker 5: look into this, and then the next morning it's nine
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Speaker 5: o'clock everyone's eating buffet and all of a sudden, where's Anna. So,
3:01
Speaker 5: as an investigator, the FBI is going to have an
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Speaker 5: issue of trying to figure out who's with Anna, who's
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Speaker 5: the last person with her, who went to her cabin
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Speaker 5: with her, because it was already reported that she went
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Speaker 5: back earlier in the night because she didn't feel good.
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Speaker 2: That's a problem, bombshell tonight, the step brother of a
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Speaker 2: teen girl high school cheerleader killed on board a carnival
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Speaker 2: cruise ship last year has been officially charged with her murder,
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Speaker 2: and he is being charged as an adult.
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Speaker 1: For those of you just joining us, For those.
3:37
Speaker 2: Of you that may not be familiar with the brutal
3:40
Speaker 2: murder of Anna Kettner aboard a Carnival cruise ship, straight
3:44
Speaker 2: out to Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood
3:48
Speaker 2: Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of a hit podcast
3:53
Speaker 2: series Body Bags, with Joseph Scott Morgan Joe Scott Morgan
3:56
Speaker 2: joining us, what happened to this team girl? As her parents,
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Speaker 2: the stepmother and the biodad were right across the hall,
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Speaker 2: they didn't see her for what did we figure out
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Speaker 2: like eighteen hours on a cruise ship seriously, what happened to.
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Speaker 6: Anna, Well, according to what the federal indictment is saying,
4:18
Speaker 6: now we've already had a tease about this, is that
4:22
Speaker 6: she died as a result of what they're calling mechanical asphixia.
4:27
Speaker 6: Now I've heard the term armbar used multiple times, which
4:31
Speaker 6: is very very specific, Nancy, where they're talking about that
4:35
Speaker 6: someone laid their forearm, which would be what we refer
4:41
Speaker 6: to as the blade of the arm right here across
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Speaker 6: the neck, and that is across the antier aspect of
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Speaker 6: the neck. There's one little tidbit here that I found
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Speaker 6: out that she's apparently got two areas right here that
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Speaker 6: may be hemorrhage. And why is this significant, Well, it's
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Speaker 6: significant because this attack would have had to have occurred
5:01
Speaker 6: from the front pressure being placed down on the anterior
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Speaker 6: neck that's the front of the neck and literally crushing
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Speaker 6: the trachea or compressing it to the point where she
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Speaker 6: could not breathe. And in my opinion at least, what's
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Speaker 6: happening here is that you've got weight that's settling down
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Speaker 6: on her, Nancy, she would have been struggling for breath.
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Speaker 6: To add to this, as you mentioned, they are saying
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Speaker 6: now that she has been sexually assaulted. This is going
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Speaker 6: to be significant, significant from an evidentiary standpoint, where you know,
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Speaker 6: there's been all kinds of things that have been said
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Speaker 6: about who was in and out of the cabin Nancy.
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Speaker 6: This is, like you said, this is a big torpedo
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Speaker 6: right into the broadside of the defense's case.
5:49
Speaker 2: There were all the warning signs, very very disturbing, Joe
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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan, because long before Anna Kattner's death, her parents
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Speaker 2: were warned this stepbrother now indicted in her assault, her
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Speaker 2: sex assault, and her murder. There were all the warnings
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Speaker 2: that the stepbrother had tried to sex assault her before, and.
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Speaker 1: Nothing was done. Nothing was done.
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Speaker 2: And I'm going to go out on a limb tonight
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Speaker 2: and ask for a review of the parent's conduct because
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Speaker 2: I consider that to be child neglect, neglecting claims that
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Speaker 2: your daughter is in danger, you do nothing. In fact,
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Speaker 2: it's more than doing nothing, Joe Scott. They put her
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Speaker 2: in a room with the stepbrother that had reportedly tried
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Speaker 2: to sex assault her in the past.
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, I want you to listen to this.
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Speaker 7: You heard him yelling at her like in an harmful
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Speaker 7: way of like shut the hell up and stuff like that,
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Speaker 7: Like something was like banging around and stuff, and like
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Speaker 7: the chairs were again thrown around in the room.
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Speaker 8: Though Anna's stepbrother tells family members he has no recollection
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Speaker 8: of what happened to Anna, her brother tells a friend
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Speaker 8: he heard a heated argument between them in their shared
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Speaker 8: cabin the night before Anna was found dead. Anna's brother
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Speaker 8: tells her ex boyfriend Joshua too that he heard the
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Speaker 8: stepbrother yelling at Anna, the sounds of furniture overturning and
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Speaker 8: screams from inside their room.
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Speaker 2: Straight out to veteran defense attorney Dan Ruben joining us,
7:29
Speaker 2: founder of Ruben Law Firm, joining us out of la
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Speaker 2: where a lot of cruise ships take off from near you,
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Speaker 2: Danny Rubin got a question for you. Of course, everyone
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Speaker 2: is presumed innocent until proven guilty under the law.
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Speaker 1: Done, you don't need.
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Speaker 2: To start reciting that mantra to me tonight, But what
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Speaker 2: is your take. I'm not talking about the stepbrother right now.
7:54
Speaker 2: I'm talking about the parents who were warned, and I'm
7:57
Speaker 2: going to show you some more evidence of how I
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Speaker 2: believe they knew this step brother had tried to molest
8:03
Speaker 2: Anna in the past. At least once she told people
8:06
Speaker 2: she was afraid of him.
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Speaker 1: Why in the.
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Speaker 2: H E double L do they think it's okay to
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Speaker 2: put her in the room along with him and the
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Speaker 2: little brother that they that he kicked out, locked him out.
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Speaker 1: Of the cruise ship room all night long? What were
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Speaker 1: they thinking?
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Speaker 9: I mean, if they had some sort of allegation, obviously
8:28
Speaker 9: that's something to consider. But you have to assume that
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Speaker 9: the parents investigated this, They talked to their kids about it,
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Speaker 9: They probably had some family conversations about it, and then
8:40
Speaker 9: they only after that made the choice to put them
8:42
Speaker 9: in the same room together. Now, as a parent myself,
8:45
Speaker 9: I would never willingly put my kids in danger. You
8:48
Speaker 9: have to assume that they investigated this and found that
8:51
Speaker 9: there was nothing at least nothing to it, or if
8:54
Speaker 9: there was something to it, they addressed it.
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Speaker 2: Since Anna was killed, Danny, they have done everything they
9:04
Speaker 2: can to protect the step son. Everything has been all
9:08
Speaker 2: about protecting him, keeping his name secret.
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Speaker 1: Not letting anybody find out that he was a suspect.
9:15
Speaker 2: I mean, I have got so much intel on that,
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Speaker 2: it's coming out my ears instead of looking for justice
9:22
Speaker 2: for Anna. Now, why do why would I assume given
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Speaker 2: their behavior that they tried to protect Anna.
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Speaker 1: They put her in the room. You know what, Listen
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Speaker 1: to this.
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Speaker 7: She just didn't feel safe around him. She's scared to
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Speaker 7: tell anybody because she was scared that he would do
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Speaker 7: something sooner.
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Speaker 10: Joshua too says Anna's close relationship with her stepbrother was
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Speaker 10: one sided. The sixteen year old is obsessed with Anna
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Speaker 10: and made her uncomfortable with romantic advances. He once even
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Speaker 10: caught him trying to climb into Anna's bed while the
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Speaker 10: two were on FaceTime, Anna already asleep.
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Speaker 11: She said that I tried to tell the parents that
10:00
Speaker 11: this was happening, and they didn't want to believe me.
10:03
Speaker 11: He's like infatuated, attracted her, like crazy. He's always one.
10:06
Speaker 8: Of the dater.
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Speaker 12: Chris doesn't realize it's his fault. This whole thing is
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Speaker 12: his fault. If he would have taken the warnings that
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Speaker 12: Anna's ex boyfriend gave him, then she would still be here.
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Speaker 12: So keep that in mind, Christopher, I blame you.
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Speaker 2: She said it is she said it. That's our friends
10:34
Speaker 2: at Inside Edition and Just Mom nineteen eighty four on
10:37
Speaker 2: TikTok Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, let me understand to
10:53
Speaker 2: Sydney Sylvanni joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter Sydney. It's
10:58
Speaker 2: my understanding that the parents said the boyfriend was lying,
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Speaker 2: lying about the incident where he's facetiming her. He can
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Speaker 2: see what's happening on FaceTime.
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Speaker 1: It's like a.
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Speaker 2: Phone call with video live and she Anna dozes off.
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Speaker 2: It's late at night, they're talking, she doses off, and
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Speaker 2: it's then that he sees, according to the boyfriend, the
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Speaker 2: step brother crawled on top of Anna Kaptner and.
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Speaker 1: She fights him off.
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Speaker 2: I also understand that the parents say the boyfriend lied
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Speaker 2: about all that he made it all up.
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Speaker 4: What do you know, Sidney, We know that Chris Kaepner yes,
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Speaker 4: claims that this story was a lie, that Joshua to
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Speaker 4: made this up in front of the cameras after Anna's death,
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Speaker 4: and he says he has screenshots to prove in a
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Speaker 4: conversation with Anna that Joshua was lying about.
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Speaker 2: This is the boy friend lyeing. Did he lie about
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Speaker 2: what he saw on FaceTime? You decide look at him again.
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Speaker 7: She just didn't feel safe around him. She's scared to
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Speaker 7: tell anybody because she was scared that he would do
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Speaker 7: something to her.
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Speaker 11: She says that I tried to tell the parents that
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Speaker 11: this was happening, and they didn't want to believe me.
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Speaker 11: He's like confatuated, attracted her, like crazy. He's always one
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Speaker 11: of the dat.
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Speaker 2: From our friends over at Inside Edition, straight out to
12:29
Speaker 2: special guests joining us. Doctor Jeralen Utter, clinical psychologists specializing
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Speaker 2: in psych evaluations risk assessments for individuals in the criminal
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Speaker 2: justice system. I almost called him a kid, but he's
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Speaker 2: not a kid. He's being treated as an adult in court.
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Speaker 2: He should have been assessed for criminal behavior. Author of
12:51
Speaker 2: Mainlining Philly, author of Aftershock, How Past Events shake up
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Speaker 2: Your life Today, and producer of Utter Nonsense, a document
13:00
Speaker 2: Henry doctor jerln Utter. Why isn't so many parents choose
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Speaker 2: to put on blinders to be blind to what is
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Speaker 2: happening right in front of them. You've got the little
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Speaker 2: boyfriend saying he tried to sex assault your daughter. You've
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Speaker 2: got the boyfriend's father saying, hey, we warned them this
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Speaker 2: was happening. Now she's dead, doctor Jerlyn, she's dead. And
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Speaker 2: what I and a lot of legal legals, not just me,
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Speaker 2: predicted months ago when Anna was first murdered, has been
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Speaker 2: born out by a federal indictment. Her own step brother
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Speaker 2: is charged. I'm so mad. I could you and Niel
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Speaker 2: and half because this could have been in die. This
13:46
Speaker 2: could have been avoided, this indictment, this murder, this alleged
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Speaker 2: sex assault, could have been avoided if the parents had listened.
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Speaker 2: What what is happening In the minds of parents. They
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Speaker 2: don't want to believe something like that could happen in
14:01
Speaker 2: their family.
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Speaker 13: That's it, That's exactly it. So you're looking at a
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Speaker 13: blended family scenario, Nancy, and you have a stepbrother, you know,
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Speaker 13: stepsister Anna and and her her stepbrother, if you will,
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Speaker 13: so a lot of the times, you know they have
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Speaker 13: this family, they want they want everything to go well.
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Speaker 13: Everybody wants this blended family to work out and to
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Speaker 13: be successful. But I can't completely rely on that. I
14:25
Speaker 13: have kids myself. I work with juveniles, I work with adults.
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Speaker 13: If at any point in time, you know, I have
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Speaker 13: a daughter, and I can see that her affects different.
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Speaker 13: I mean, it's probably obvious that when you're on a
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Speaker 13: cruise together that she's trying to avoid him, if she's
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Speaker 13: afraid of him, she's trying to avoid him going back
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Speaker 13: to the cabin earlier, maybe locking the door you know,
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Speaker 13: keeping her distance from him, sharing with the boyfriend that
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Speaker 13: she doesn't feel safe. If I'm the parent, I'm going
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Speaker 13: to look into that. And even if at the end
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Speaker 13: of the day it's decided, hey, you know, nothing happened,
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Speaker 13: I'm still going to do everything I can to protect
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Speaker 13: my child and at minimum get a DIF in the
15:01
Speaker 13: cruise on the ship. So when we look at incidents
15:04
Speaker 13: like this, it escalated because there was an opportunity. They
15:09
Speaker 13: were in a room together, it was close quarters.
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Speaker 3: She didn't have a.
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Speaker 13: Lot of other places to go. She's either out and
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Speaker 13: about on the cruise ship or she's in a room
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Speaker 13: that they share. So when we look at the crime
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Speaker 13: and the behavior of the brother, it is something that
15:22
Speaker 13: is plan and premeditated. But also there's nowhere else for
15:26
Speaker 13: her to go. She's saying she doesn't feel good and
15:28
Speaker 13: she goes to the room and that's where they're staying together.
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Speaker 13: So that's something that that's very concerning. Another thing that
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Speaker 13: I just wanted to throw out there, Nancy, is he
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Speaker 13: is being charged as an adult even though he's sixteen
15:38
Speaker 13: years old. Something that the defense may say is that
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Speaker 13: Nora developmentally, his prefrontal cortex isn't developed. He's still immature.
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Speaker 13: You know, it was impulsive. It's something that happened, and
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Speaker 13: I just want to kind of throw out there, you know,
15:51
Speaker 13: to everyone right now. Yes, even though he's sixteen and
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Speaker 13: his brain may not be developed, and it was something
15:56
Speaker 13: that was building up, and to your point, that was
15:58
Speaker 13: not addressed by the parents. This is something that could
16:00
Speaker 13: have been prevented.
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Speaker 1: You're putting a lot of conflicting thoughts into one monologue,
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Speaker 1: and they're all valid, and I'm going to break him down.
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Speaker 1: Number one. I don't want to hear about his phone
16:16
Speaker 1: cortex or whatever you just said.
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Speaker 2: She's dead the Feds. I was a FED for three years.
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Speaker 2: I know how the FEDS work. They don't play. They
16:26
Speaker 2: would not have come forward the god forward if they
16:28
Speaker 2: didn't have him lock stock and smoking gun barrel done.
16:35
Speaker 2: I'm just telling you that. So I don't want to
16:37
Speaker 2: hear about his brain may not be developed. She's dead.
16:41
Speaker 2: Whether his brain was developed or not. According to the Feds,
16:45
Speaker 2: he did it.
16:46
Speaker 9: Now.
16:46
Speaker 2: I want to tell you something that according to Social
16:50
Speaker 2: this is written by Chris Kepner, Anna's biological father. Absolutely
16:56
Speaker 2: no evidence of him any way about Anna is very convoluted,
17:03
Speaker 2: no matter the claims are any of that. So no,
17:07
Speaker 2: nothing was ever brought to any of our attention for
17:09
Speaker 2: the past two and a half years. Really, well, if
17:12
Speaker 2: I know what the boyfriend said, how is it that
17:17
Speaker 2: he doesn't know what the boyfriend said? How come we
17:21
Speaker 2: all know but her own family doesn't know or they.
17:26
Speaker 1: Don't want to know. You know, you know what's happening
17:29
Speaker 1: right now.
17:30
Speaker 2: To Danny Ruben, a veteran criminal defense attorney, you know
17:35
Speaker 2: you must feel this way sometimes, even though you may
17:38
Speaker 2: not want to admit it, that you see violent cases
17:41
Speaker 2: like this and it feels better to have somebody to
17:46
Speaker 2: blame to say you did this, because I think, Danny,
17:50
Speaker 2: it makes other people me you, Others think, well, I
17:55
Speaker 2: would never do this, so this is not going to
17:57
Speaker 2: happen to me because I would never fill in the blank.
18:02
Speaker 2: And I first became aware of this phenomena in rape
18:04
Speaker 2: cases where people would blame the victim, saying, oh, she
18:09
Speaker 2: shouldn't have gone to a bar at eleven o'clock at night,
18:11
Speaker 2: this is her fault, or she shouldn't have woronn a
18:13
Speaker 2: mini skirt, this is her fault, or she shouldn't have gone.
18:15
Speaker 1: Jogging in a jogging bra.
18:16
Speaker 2: I would never do that because it makes you feel
18:19
Speaker 2: safer to judge somebody else. And right now I'm really
18:27
Speaker 2: coming down on her parents. But frankly, Danny, I think
18:31
Speaker 2: it's justified because if I know the boyfriend warned them,
18:36
Speaker 2: then how come.
18:36
Speaker 1: They didn't know. They did know because they said he
18:39
Speaker 1: was lying. They knew of his claims.
18:41
Speaker 9: Danny, I mean, if we believe the boyfriend. Number one,
18:45
Speaker 9: we have a seventeen year old saying I told you so.
18:49
Speaker 9: To me, it's always a little bit of a suspect
18:51
Speaker 9: kind of thing because if you just told the parents
18:54
Speaker 9: but not his own parents, I have questions about that.
18:58
Speaker 9: But also, I mean, you have a parent who's being
19:01
Speaker 9: confronted by a seventeen year old boyfriend. You have no
19:04
Speaker 9: idea what their relationship was like. Was it antagonistic, was
19:07
Speaker 9: it friendly, was it amicable? We don't know. And all
19:10
Speaker 9: of a sudden, this guy is saying, oh, your other
19:13
Speaker 9: son is a dangerous guy. I mean, your first thought
19:16
Speaker 9: as a parent is get out of here. You don't
19:18
Speaker 9: know what you're talking about. And we talked to my
19:20
Speaker 9: son and see what's going on. The son's inevitably going
19:22
Speaker 9: to say, wasn't me, I didn't do anything. You turn
19:25
Speaker 9: to the seventeen year old who's dating your daughter again,
19:27
Speaker 9: don't know their relationship, and he says, I talked to
19:31
Speaker 9: my son and this is nonsense. Where you coming from
19:34
Speaker 9: on this? What's your proof? We don't know what their
19:37
Speaker 9: conversation was.
19:37
Speaker 1: Like Anna Kettner's body was found.
19:40
Speaker 2: Anna was dead, stuffed under a bump under one of
19:44
Speaker 2: the beds in the room.
19:45
Speaker 1: Do we have proof that her stepbrother did that?
19:49
Speaker 6: To this day, we don't have any answers at this point.
19:54
Speaker 2: The parent's involvement or like they're off, is a whole
19:58
Speaker 2: nother cant of worms. Because toda night the step brother
20:02
Speaker 2: is unmasked his face scene for the first time. Now
20:07
Speaker 2: I want to talk about the indictment. Straight back out
20:10
Speaker 2: to Sydney, Silvanni joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter.
20:13
Speaker 3: What can you tell me, Nancy?
20:15
Speaker 4: This indictment was unsealed just a few days ago, and
20:19
Speaker 4: we're learning that this teenager is accused of sexually assaulting
20:25
Speaker 4: his older stepsister.
20:28
Speaker 3: And then choking her to death to cover up that crime.
20:33
Speaker 4: So we're learning with this sixteen year old is going
20:37
Speaker 4: to be charged as an adult. That's why we have
20:39
Speaker 4: this indictment unsealed today. These charges were first filed in February,
20:45
Speaker 4: and he was indicted March tenth, and here we are
20:49
Speaker 4: today learning about all of this.
20:51
Speaker 2: Now bombshell tonight, Anna Kettner's step brother now charged, months
20:56
Speaker 2: and months after she was found dead on a Who's ship.
21:01
Speaker 2: He will be tried as an adult. Now, curious why
21:06
Speaker 2: these charges go down in federal court?
21:09
Speaker 1: What about it? Reuben?
21:10
Speaker 9: Yeah, So when it comes to the federal indictment, the
21:13
Speaker 9: fact is that generally, because the charge is so heinous
21:17
Speaker 9: and because the crimes alleged are so severe, the court
21:22
Speaker 9: is likely unsealed this docket and it's trying him as
21:27
Speaker 9: an adult.
21:28
Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand.
21:29
Speaker 2: You're saying, because the case is so heinous, that's why
21:31
Speaker 2: they're trying him as an adult.
21:34
Speaker 9: Well more, because the charges are such that they are severe.
21:38
Speaker 9: It's murder and essentially forcible rape. Additionally, the way it
21:44
Speaker 9: was done, the premeditation, the fact that there's sexual component
21:48
Speaker 9: that was premeditated is what they're alleging. That's why he's
21:52
Speaker 9: being tried as an adult.
21:53
Speaker 2: But why by the Feds, Because all our legal eagles
21:57
Speaker 2: know that there are typically seven deadlies, and if a
22:02
Speaker 2: juvenile is charged with one of the seven deadly is
22:05
Speaker 2: being rape, asnomy, child molestation, murder, arson, armed robbery, aggravator assault.
22:13
Speaker 2: If they're charged with any of those which are the
22:15
Speaker 2: seven deadly sins as they are called amani juvenile justice systems,
22:20
Speaker 2: the case will be bound over, transferred from juvenile court
22:24
Speaker 2: to adult court. Sometimes there's a hearing involved, sometimes not.
22:28
Speaker 2: But that said, they become candidates to be tried as
22:32
Speaker 2: an adult if charged with one of the seven deadly sins,
22:35
Speaker 2: two of which are manifested.
22:38
Speaker 1: Here according to the indictment.
22:40
Speaker 2: That's why he's being tried as an adult, because he
22:42
Speaker 2: committed allegedly deadly But why in the federal.
22:47
Speaker 9: System generally, because this happened in maritime waters, essentially because
22:52
Speaker 9: it wasn't conducted in the continental United States on land,
22:58
Speaker 9: and it was done on c the federal jurisdiction takes
23:01
Speaker 9: over from there. No state has jurisdiction over that. And
23:05
Speaker 9: also I would say that the Fed does want this
23:07
Speaker 9: case because it was it is so sensationalized. I mean,
23:12
Speaker 9: the fact is that this is a very very newsworthy case.
23:17
Speaker 9: The Federal the federal government does have that jurisdiction. It
23:20
Speaker 9: deals with maritime issues. It deals with cruise ships that
23:24
Speaker 9: are in interstate water, that are an intercontinental sometimes waters,
23:29
Speaker 9: and that that affects the interstate commerce through which the
23:33
Speaker 9: Fed retains jurisdiction.
23:35
Speaker 2: At the time when this occurred, the stepbrothers case stayed
23:39
Speaker 2: under seal, but US District Court Judge bath Bloom has
23:44
Speaker 2: now ordered it transferred for adult prosecution, and the step
23:50
Speaker 2: brother is officially charged with first degree murder and aggravated
23:54
Speaker 2: sex abuse. That means to me that there was some
24:00
Speaker 2: sort of a hearing before it was determined he would
24:02
Speaker 2: be tried as an adult. Straight back out to Joseph
24:05
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University and star of
24:09
Speaker 2: Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, I want to go
24:13
Speaker 2: over what we know regarding the case. Specifically, this is
24:18
Speaker 2: an aggravated assault aggravated sex abuse case.
24:24
Speaker 1: Not that there is a typical.
24:28
Speaker 2: Rape case, but this is aggravated, which means in some
24:31
Speaker 2: way and we don't know the facts yet, it is
24:34
Speaker 2: more inflammatory, it's worse. I'd like to go over with
24:38
Speaker 2: you specifically the evidence left behind on her neck, What
24:46
Speaker 2: were you saying earlier.
24:48
Speaker 6: Yeah, So what has been stated Nancy previously is that
24:52
Speaker 6: an arm bar was used, and armbar means that the
24:58
Speaker 6: forearm is literally laid across the anterior neck, the front
25:03
Speaker 6: of the neck, and there is a compression event that
25:06
Speaker 6: takes place. I mean, any of our friends out there
25:08
Speaker 6: that are listening can identify with this, right, you can't
25:11
Speaker 6: catch your breath, there's something including your airway perhaps, or
25:14
Speaker 6: if you've ever been in a tight space. She's fighting
25:18
Speaker 6: as well in this. This goes to the aggravation, right,
25:22
Speaker 6: you begin to think about this as a violent attack.
25:25
Speaker 6: She's resisting perhaps, and he is not only pressing down
25:30
Speaker 6: allegedly on her neck, she's also trying to fight against him,
25:37
Speaker 6: and she's trying to get away from him all the
25:40
Speaker 6: while the sex attack is going on. So this is
25:43
Speaker 6: going to lead to a mark on her neck that
25:46
Speaker 6: is really going to stand out what we will find out.
25:49
Speaker 6: And by the way, her examination was done by the
25:51
Speaker 6: Miami Dade Medical Examiner's Office, which is one of the
25:54
Speaker 6: finest in the country. This is going to be a
25:56
Speaker 6: very thorough examination. We're going to learn a lot about
26:00
Speaker 6: associated hemorrhage in the neck, find out if this arm
26:04
Speaker 6: or this arm could have generated that since they're talking
26:07
Speaker 6: about an armbar and Nancy, I got to tell you,
26:10
Speaker 6: I'm very interested to know what the trachia look like.
26:13
Speaker 6: Is it fractured? We have cartilage in our trachea, and
26:18
Speaker 6: you can fracture cartilage. I'm wondering about that as well.
26:23
Speaker 6: There's there's so much evidence to be had here. And
26:26
Speaker 6: if I could just interject this, there is one one
26:29
Speaker 6: report that comes from superseding indictment where Nancy, they use
26:34
Speaker 6: the term penetrative. Okay, now what does that mean. That
26:39
Speaker 6: means that along with this attack, and they're putting a
26:42
Speaker 6: sexual element in here, that there is a penetrative element
26:46
Speaker 6: to this attack, i e. Rape. And you know, for
26:49
Speaker 6: any lawyer that's out there, you know when you begin
26:52
Speaker 6: to think about, well, you know, you can explain away
26:55
Speaker 6: his DA DNA in this environment, yeah you can. You know,
27:00
Speaker 6: you can't explain it away. You cannot explain it away
27:04
Speaker 6: in her very intimate area. That's something that you know,
27:07
Speaker 6: as they say that dog ain't gonna hunt and that's
27:10
Speaker 6: going to be a major problem for them.
27:12
Speaker 2: Nancy put Joe got up, Please, Joe Scott look around.
27:17
Speaker 2: Are you in preschool. Are you in the first grade? No,
27:21
Speaker 2: you're not.
27:21
Speaker 1: You're on crime stories.
27:24
Speaker 2: Tell it like it is. What is an intimate area?
27:28
Speaker 2: What are you saying?
27:29
Speaker 1: Speak English to me.
27:31
Speaker 2: You're talking about her vagina, her rectum, her all of
27:35
Speaker 2: her genitalia.
27:37
Speaker 1: Now tell me flat out what you're looking for.
27:43
Speaker 6: Well, what I'm talking about is this was going to
27:45
Speaker 6: be a violent sexual assault. And here's another bit of
27:48
Speaker 6: a clue that we have, and this was mentioned at
27:51
Speaker 6: the top of the show. We talked about how that
27:56
Speaker 6: this was something that occurred before her death, Nancy, and
28:00
Speaker 6: so what does that mean. They saw evidence, probably at
28:04
Speaker 6: autopsy that there are hemorrhagic tears, rips, abrasions, contusions that
28:12
Speaker 6: are in her vaginal anal area, and so that is
28:16
Speaker 6: going to be very easily demonstrated in court photographically. This
28:22
Speaker 6: is going to hit the jury in the chest like
28:24
Speaker 6: a ten pound sledgehammer when they see how violent this tack,
28:28
Speaker 6: this attack potentially was. And you know, again we go
28:32
Speaker 6: back to this idea that she's been very, very resistant.
28:35
Speaker 6: Here's one other piece as well. We all know, Nancy,
28:38
Speaker 6: you and I have been covering cases for a long
28:40
Speaker 6: long time. What do victims do when they're being assaulted,
28:45
Speaker 6: they try to defend themselves. I want to know. And
28:48
Speaker 6: we see her beautiful nails that have been been displayed.
28:52
Speaker 6: She's on a cruise. She's probably got her nails that
28:55
Speaker 6: have been done prior to going on the cruise. They
28:59
Speaker 6: would have done nail scrapings and trimmings. They have her fingernails, Nancy,
29:02
Speaker 6: And I really wonder if there's going to be biological evidence.
29:06
Speaker 6: I skin cells, maybe his blood underneath those nails. I
29:11
Speaker 6: also want to know, probably, well, what's significant. Did anybody
29:16
Speaker 6: see anything on him, any kind of scratches on his face,
29:21
Speaker 6: his neck, his chest, his hands, his arm, and was
29:26
Speaker 6: that documented? That's going to be essential in this case.
29:30
Speaker 2: Anna teen girl. Anna was a senior at Temple Christian School,
29:35
Speaker 2: a cheerleader. She was to graduate this month, twenty twenty six.
29:45
Speaker 2: She loved children, dolphins, butterflies, arts and crafts. She loved
29:52
Speaker 2: doing puzzles with her grandma. She got her butter's license
29:56
Speaker 2: before she could drive, and she was patty certified to
30:01
Speaker 2: dive in deep water.
30:04
Speaker 1: Loved all music except heavy metal.
30:07
Speaker 2: She planned to join the US Navy and then go
30:12
Speaker 2: on to law enforcement to become a canine officer. It's
30:21
Speaker 2: painful that we are describing her in life. It seems
30:26
Speaker 2: like no one else is talking about Anna. Everyone's talking
30:30
Speaker 2: about a juvenile being charged as an adult. You just
30:36
Speaker 2: heard Joe Scott Morgan, who has handled over one thousand
30:40
Speaker 2: death scenes, death scenes of all sorts, be the accident, suicide,
30:44
Speaker 2: natural causes like heart attack or stroke undetermined, or homicide,
30:51
Speaker 2: talking about was the defendant the step brother examined immediately after?
31:01
Speaker 2: Did anyone look at his body for clues? Were there
31:07
Speaker 2: scratches on him? Were their bruises on him? We may
31:10
Speaker 2: never know, because it seemingly the family did everything they
31:16
Speaker 2: could to protect him.
31:18
Speaker 1: Listen. He was a good student, played soccer, He played soccer,
31:23
Speaker 1: very quiet young man.
31:25
Speaker 2: He had demons, I think in his past and he
31:29
Speaker 2: was trying to deal with those.
31:30
Speaker 14: Barbara and Jeffrey Kepner are shocked his sixteen year old
31:34
Speaker 14: stepbrother is being eyed as a suspect and their murder.
31:36
Speaker 14: Describing them as two peas in a pod and very close.
31:40
Speaker 14: She says the teen was distraught when he learned and
31:42
Speaker 14: his body was found and couldn't speak during an initial
31:45
Speaker 14: interview with FBI agents. Barbara says the teen claims he
31:48
Speaker 14: can't remember what happened and was hospitalized for psychiatric observation
31:52
Speaker 14: when they arrived back in Miami.
31:55
Speaker 2: From our friends at ABC, couldn't speak or what speak,
32:01
Speaker 2: because I'm pretty sure Sidney Silvanni that that morning at
32:05
Speaker 2: the buffet, when the parents roll up to the food trough,
32:10
Speaker 2: he was acting normally. No one said they noticed him
32:13
Speaker 2: behaving any differently until the body's found.
32:19
Speaker 1: So is it couldn't or wouldn't speak.
32:23
Speaker 2: And I've had it up to hear hearing about what
32:25
Speaker 2: a great athlete and quiet young man he was, how
32:30
Speaker 2: they were two peas in a pot. They're still playing
32:34
Speaker 2: out this fantasy that Anna was not afraid of him, Sydney, right,
32:39
Speaker 2: This young.
32:39
Speaker 4: Man, this teenager, was not upset over Anna's death, over
32:45
Speaker 4: finding Anna's body.
32:47
Speaker 3: He was upset, but he got caught. That's clearly what
32:51
Speaker 3: this is. Anna's body was stuffed under her bed. This
32:55
Speaker 3: was a terrible cover up.
32:56
Speaker 4: Job, and he was disappointed that his life was going
33:01
Speaker 4: to change forever, that he's going to spend a considerable
33:06
Speaker 4: amount of time behind bars if prosecutors can prove that
33:10
Speaker 4: he did this to his stepsister.
33:18
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace straight out to Danny Rubin
33:26
Speaker 1: joining us. He's a veteran defense.
33:28
Speaker 2: Attorney joining us out of LA, founder of the Ruben
33:31
Speaker 2: Law firm. Dan, As you know, judges instruct the jury
33:40
Speaker 2: with jury instructions. That's the last thing they hear before
33:43
Speaker 2: they go to jury deliberations, not closing arguments. Following closing arguments,
33:47
Speaker 2: the judge gives jury instructions the law by which they
33:50
Speaker 2: are to judge the facts, and they alone are the
33:53
Speaker 2: sole judge.
33:55
Speaker 1: Of the facts and the law.
33:58
Speaker 2: Isn't it true that they will be told they the
34:02
Speaker 2: jury are allowed to consider behavior before, during, and after
34:06
Speaker 2: the incident.
34:07
Speaker 1: Isn't that true?
34:08
Speaker 9: Of course they are there. They're able to consider the
34:12
Speaker 9: events leading up to the events at issue. They're they're
34:16
Speaker 9: able to consider prior relationships. They are able to consider
34:21
Speaker 9: conduct by the by the victim, by the defendant, by
34:27
Speaker 9: the parents, by everyone. What they can't consider is the
34:31
Speaker 9: character of the defendant. But that's a totally separate thing.
34:35
Speaker 9: But yeah, conduct is very is very much going to
34:38
Speaker 9: be an issue.
34:38
Speaker 2: Please, of course, they cannot consider character or reputation unless
34:45
Speaker 2: and until, of course, the defense brings it up what a.
34:48
Speaker 1: Great kid he is. Once they do that the demons.
34:51
Speaker 2: Did you hear the grandma? I guess that was a
34:53
Speaker 2: grandma saying he had demons. Well, if even the grandma
34:58
Speaker 2: knows that this team has as demons, why and the
35:02
Speaker 2: h e double l did they put the daughter in
35:05
Speaker 2: the room with him?
35:06
Speaker 1: I don't get it. They knew he had demons.
35:09
Speaker 2: Now I can only imagine what those demons are. But
35:12
Speaker 2: what I'm getting at is the body was hidden, Anna tinggirl.
35:17
Speaker 2: Anna's body was hidden. We're now learning nude naked under
35:23
Speaker 2: the bed. Let's see the inside of that cruise room.
35:26
Speaker 2: Cruise ship room, please or a fessimile thereof.
35:31
Speaker 1: She was hidden.
35:32
Speaker 2: She was covered with a blank wrapped up in a blanket,
35:34
Speaker 2: and life best stuffed on top of her body. Now, question, Danny,
35:42
Speaker 2: don't you believe that is an indication he knew what
35:46
Speaker 2: he had done was wrong.
35:47
Speaker 1: He had to hide it. I mean, this goes all
35:50
Speaker 1: the way back to the Garden of Eden. For Pete's sake,
35:52
Speaker 1: Why didn't I argue this to a jury? I just
35:54
Speaker 1: thought of it daylight and a dollar short.
35:57
Speaker 2: Even Adam and Eve, when they knew they did something wrong,
35:59
Speaker 2: they did they hid.
36:02
Speaker 1: It's a very old story. He hid the body and
36:06
Speaker 1: then pretended everything's fine. Doesn't that indicate he knew what
36:10
Speaker 1: he did was wrong.
36:12
Speaker 9: I think the issue is going to be when he
36:14
Speaker 9: realized what he did was wrong. I mean, the premeditation
36:17
Speaker 9: goes to did he premeditate to rape and murder her?
36:20
Speaker 9: Or was this just a crime of passion? He realized
36:24
Speaker 9: what he had done only afterward and then he freaked out.
36:28
Speaker 9: That's really going to be what the significance of the
36:33
Speaker 9: hiding of the body is going to be.
36:36
Speaker 2: I think, yes, I got to break down what you
36:39
Speaker 2: just said. Hold on, hold on, you got me drinking
36:40
Speaker 2: out of the fire hydrant room and he's too much
36:42
Speaker 2: too fast. So you're saying he only realized what he
36:46
Speaker 2: did was wrong after he did it. Now, isn't it
36:50
Speaker 2: also true? And guys, this is all rhetorical. Dan Rubin
36:54
Speaker 2: has tried hundreds of cases and won a lot of them.
36:58
Speaker 2: And you know his clients were probably guilty, but he
37:00
Speaker 2: won anyway. Okay, put him back up, please, And yes,
37:04
Speaker 2: we know the brother, the stepbrother is innocent until proven guilty.
37:08
Speaker 1: We know that, Ruben. Isn't it true under the law?
37:12
Speaker 2: And I know you know the answer that intent to
37:17
Speaker 2: commit a crime can be formed in the snap of
37:19
Speaker 2: a finger, the twinkling of a moment, the blink of
37:21
Speaker 2: an eye, the time it takes me to raise the
37:23
Speaker 2: gun and pull the trigger, less time. I don't need
37:26
Speaker 2: a prolonged plan to.
37:28
Speaker 1: Just stalking you for weeks.
37:30
Speaker 2: On end, following you around town, and then bam, killing
37:34
Speaker 2: you finally when you get out of your car.
37:36
Speaker 1: That is not necessary under the law. It can be
37:38
Speaker 1: just like that, isn't that true?
37:41
Speaker 9: That is true, that's unequivocal.
37:43
Speaker 2: That can be say, you don't think at some point
37:45
Speaker 2: when he was ripping her clothes off and then strangling her, well,
37:49
Speaker 2: Joe Scott.
37:50
Speaker 1: Tells you how long it takes to aspixiate someone.
37:52
Speaker 2: That's plenty of time to form intent. And then only
37:56
Speaker 2: when she's dead he goes, uh, oh, my bad, boo boo,
38:00
Speaker 2: do over, No, uh uh.
38:03
Speaker 1: That ain't gonna work.
38:06
Speaker 9: I think the difference between when I'm saying premeditation is
38:09
Speaker 9: that he may have premeditated the you know, the sexual
38:13
Speaker 9: assaults or not. We don't know. But the fact is,
38:16
Speaker 9: let's say there's a struggle going on and he uses
38:18
Speaker 9: just too much force. He doesn't intend to kill her,
38:21
Speaker 9: but he intends to restrain her. That's not necessarily murder
38:24
Speaker 9: or I'm not say murder in the first degree or
38:26
Speaker 9: premeditated murderer.
38:28
Speaker 1: So now you're saying, and I like this plan B.
38:33
Speaker 2: If the first plan doesn't work, he didn't know what
38:35
Speaker 2: he was doing, he didn't intend to do it.
38:37
Speaker 1: Fall back on plan B that he intended to restrain
38:41
Speaker 1: her and she died. I heard you say that. Wouldn't
38:45
Speaker 1: that be felony murder under the law.
38:50
Speaker 2: Which qualifies for life without parole, not for him because
38:53
Speaker 2: he was a juvenile, But it's the same sentence.
38:56
Speaker 1: It's still murder.
38:57
Speaker 2: If I intend to subdue, do you Dan really been
39:01
Speaker 2: by asphyxiating you until you're subdued or holding you by
39:04
Speaker 2: the arms resulting in bruises that Joe Scott Morgan described,
39:09
Speaker 2: that is an aggravated assault. And if a death occurs
39:13
Speaker 2: intentionally or not during that felony text bookcase, felony murder
39:18
Speaker 2: life it's possible.
39:20
Speaker 9: But I think the fact is that his lawyers are
39:22
Speaker 9: going to be attacking the premeditation first and foremost. They'll
39:25
Speaker 9: also be attacking any sort of DNA evidence that links
39:28
Speaker 9: him allegedly to what had happened. The fact is that
39:32
Speaker 9: the premeditation issue is going to certainly be on trial,
39:36
Speaker 9: no pun intended. And again going back to our original discussion,
39:41
Speaker 9: is to what significance the hiding of the body is
39:44
Speaker 9: going to be? Yeah, yes, I do agree that that
39:46
Speaker 9: shows some sort of understanding or even remorse as to
39:50
Speaker 9: what happened. The hiding of the body can potentially show
39:54
Speaker 9: the remorse or it can show that there was some
39:57
Speaker 9: sort of regret as to happened. But again, it's going
40:02
Speaker 9: to be at issue as to what was done, when,
40:07
Speaker 9: by whom and the evidence that shows it.
40:10
Speaker 2: Sidney Silvanni, Crime Stories investigative reporter, Where is he now?
40:15
Speaker 2: All this time he's been allowed to stay at home
40:18
Speaker 2: with his family who are covering for him.
40:21
Speaker 3: And that is still the case.
40:24
Speaker 4: Shockingly, this teenager is still staying with a relative, away
40:30
Speaker 4: from family members.
40:32
Speaker 3: He is not in lock up, he is not under detention.
40:36
Speaker 3: He is staying with a family member.
40:39
Speaker 1: Yes, hold on, let me check mate. Yeah, it's working.
40:43
Speaker 1: He's not in custody.
40:44
Speaker 2: He's charged with murder one by the FEDS and sex
40:49
Speaker 2: assault and wreaking free and walking free.
40:53
Speaker 1: Joscott Morgan, have you ever heard anything like it?
40:57
Speaker 3: Uh?
40:58
Speaker 6: No, I have it and considering the level of violence,
41:01
Speaker 6: we're talking about first degree homicide here, Nancy. You know,
41:04
Speaker 6: I got to tell you I got grand babies. You know,
41:07
Speaker 6: if I lived in that area, I wouldn't want to
41:09
Speaker 6: take them out to eat. I wouldn't want to go
41:11
Speaker 6: anywhere in public because I don't know who's got the
41:14
Speaker 6: change on this guy, who's in control with this individual.
41:18
Speaker 6: I mean the Feds. A federal grand jury has said
41:21
Speaker 6: that there is enough evidence here to move forward with
41:24
Speaker 6: some really heavy duty charges here. I have never heard
41:28
Speaker 6: of anything like this that you would.
41:30
Speaker 2: Jo Scott. You know why I went to you instead
41:33
Speaker 2: of doctor Jerrell and utter because I was going to
41:37
Speaker 2: talk about you know, why he would be at home
41:40
Speaker 2: or in a private residence as opposed to jail. But you,
41:44
Speaker 2: Joe Scott, you and I have gone over and over
41:47
Speaker 2: and over the autopsy report. Well what we know of it,
41:53
Speaker 2: what's really disturbing, Well, so many things are disturbing. I
41:56
Speaker 2: really don't know where to start. But this is part
42:00
Speaker 2: part of a pattern.
42:02
Speaker 1: It didn't just happened that night from what I can.
42:05
Speaker 2: Deduce, Joe Scott, you know about the bruises on her body,
42:09
Speaker 2: You know how she was restrained, you know how, she
42:11
Speaker 2: was asphyxiated. And now he's still not in custody. And
42:14
Speaker 2: I don't mean in custody with adults. I mean in
42:18
Speaker 2: juvenile incarceration, which is where he would stay if convicted,
42:23
Speaker 2: until he comes of age at twenty one.
42:25
Speaker 1: He would go into the adult system. She is dead,
42:28
Speaker 1: according to the FEDS. She was raped, aggravated sex.
42:33
Speaker 2: Assault in a room, door locked, and now she's dead
42:40
Speaker 2: and he is in a private residence.
42:43
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds, and may it roll down
42:51
Speaker 1: like a river.
42:54
Speaker 2: If you have information, whether you think it is significant
42:57
Speaker 2: or not, please dial seven five four seven zero three,
43:01
Speaker 2: two thousand and Tonight we remember American hero Deputy Shriff
43:05
Speaker 2: Landon Faulkner, Hamilton County Sheriff's Tennessee, just twenty.
43:09
Speaker 1: Four, killed in the line of duty, leaving behind a
43:14
Speaker 1: wife turned widow, Megan, and four children. American hero Deputy
43:20
Speaker 1: Sheriff Landon Faulkner Nancy Gray signing off goodbye fam