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Parenting Errors: You scratch my back etc... · Head Shrink Inc.

• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, welcome to Head Trink Inc.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is Doc Dave and I'm here with my Therobro, my bro Dan Bates, and we're here to talk about a book that we um worked on called When Parenting Backfires 12 Thinking Errors.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um that I can't remember the rest of the 12 thinking errors that come up when you parent.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we today we want to talk about two of the thinking errors, and in the future we're probably gonna talk um a little bit more about some of the errors.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's 12 chapters in the book and uh 12 thinking errors, and and what we do is we talk about the error itself, um, how it doesn't work well or how it backfires in a way to correct that.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll start with you, Dan.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what's a thinking error?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so a thinking error is something that's systemic in someone's thinking, for lack of a better word.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's a mistake they're thinking in in the way they think that translates into a lot of different contexts.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: So the example is let's say someone has a uh a black and white thinking.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't just happen with parenting, but it happens in relationships in general, potentially.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll give you an example and then I'll loop back to parenting.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: So someone who is making the mistake of thinking in black and white terms, they are oversimplifying things to the degree that either something is good or bad, healthy or unhealthy, and there's no gray area in between, which you can imagine would lead to certain problems because not everything in life is one way or the other.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny because it's making me think of how my mom often reacts when I say, Hey, I don't want you to do this anymore, whatever it is.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so her response is, well, fine, then I will, and then she picks the extreme opposite of this thing.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, could you not call as much?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, fine, I just won't call anymore, ever.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, no, there's like a middle ground, and so yeah, I think that black and white thinking is what you're talking about is an error, definitely.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the let's say let's use a political example since politics is on the center stage.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, we gotta stay focused because if I want to go off topic.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: So this is just an example.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: We're coming back to parents.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: But let's say your political party is the one political party, and everything right everything in your worldview, your political philosophy is right, and everything on the opposite side is totally dead wrong.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hashtag green party, hashtag Jill not Hill.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's good.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: So that's these are examples where, you know, it's kind of like us versus them.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: These are examples where people are making this mistake, and it's it's cropping up in the way that they understand other people's situations, understand themselves.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's it's part of their thinking.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: Now, parents do this when they're parenting their kids.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think specifically, um the reason why we we look at it with parents is because I mean that's basically our bread and butter.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: We work with parents every week.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think what we have seen is that um there's these typical things that parents often do that, you know, parents don't realize that they're doing it often.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Very I mean, they usually don't realize that they're doing it just because it's they were raised, it's like there's this cycle and it was done to them, and so it's how they do it with their kids, and they often don't see it.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: They have these blinders that are on.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's important to talk about this because you mentioned something where it's kind of invisible.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think the way we think through things, not what we think necessarily, but how we think, is mostly invisible.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's not very apparent.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, like these political example, like, oh, the other side, they're just wrong for all these different reasons, but you may not be noticing how you know there could be ways that you're wrong.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: There could be ways that the other side is right, but you can't understand that because you're fitting everything into this lens, this way of interpretation.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Did you ever read that article?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's a great article someone wrote called The Other Side Is Not Dumb.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: And basically it's this idea where this guy who has beliefs, when he has friends that have different beliefs than his, he sits and asks some questions and doesn't immediately you know come across as judgmental because people believe differently than I do.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: I understand that, and there's a reason that they do.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and if I just discount them as, well, that's dumb, that's not a very good place to argue from.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's all it also doesn't allow me to kind of expand my thinking on things.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think what's what's unique about the our book, When Parenting Backfires, is that a lot of times when you get books, you get books with formulas.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: You get books with if you do this, then this will happen.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: This book has nothing to do with that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it specifically talks about um the the thinking that that goes along with some parenting, um, some bad things that parents do.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start out with um number one.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: So the the title is You scratch my back and then you know I'll scratch yours.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So what what is the um kind of what's the premise of the thinking error there?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: So the the premise is when um parents have a low tolerance for stress, right?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that so the the psychology term would be low distress tolerance.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I I'll just use kind of more common language when you can't handle stress very well, and they so what kids will do is they kids are kind of subversive in a way, like we love our kids, they're great, we see the best in them, but there's kind of a subversive uh I don't know bent to them.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Bent to kids.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it but it's just it's not that they sit in their room and think, how can I make my parents' life miserable?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's more just what they it's just kind of what happens when they enter, you know, 13 years of age and on.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: They start thinking, hey, excuse me, I want to start living my own life.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do I like this thing that my parents want me to do?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: I like something else.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't agree with what my parents are doing.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's right.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: When you say subversive, that's well they they can't they can be, and I think that's the thing where parents kind of need to take off the rose-colored glasses and see their kids' behavior for what it is, because kids will push their parents, they'll they'll try to stress their parents out, and typical ways they do that is throwing temper tantrums, whining, crying, screaming, yelling, uh, accusing parents of not loving them or not wanting them to be happy.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so if a parent isn't good at handling that stress, they'll get to a point where they're doing anything to alleviate the kid's bad behavior.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Just stop, please.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so what they'll do is, and this is where the thinking here comes in, is okay, this kid, I can't handle their stress right now.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: I need them to stop.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I will give in, I'll give them what they want if they give me something in return.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully they'll they'll scratch my back.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: I scratch their back and I give them the candy, I let them go to the movie, I let them spend time with that boy or girl.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: They can have, you know, what this thing that they're demanding, and then hopefully in return, they will behave well and stop stressing me out.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this as you're talking, I'm thinking, you know, this is often implied, right?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not specifically, if I let you do this thing, I mean I think it is sometimes, but if I let you do this thing, then here's what I expect of you.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: They're not explicitly saying that.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's usually they're like, what?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Who do you really?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: So how how does it backfire?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I think how it backfires is how I've seen it backfire is um I I go to a house and a parent will say something to the effect, and this is because this is the the niche of parents that I work with, they have a kid that's on probation.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll come home and or I'll come to the um those of Freudians living there.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'll come home and my kids are um I so I'll go to the family and I'm there for an appointment, and Johnny is not home.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the the mom or the dad will say, I told Johnny to be here, and I can't believe they're not here because I let them go out with their friends two hours ago.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they told me they would come back.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: They told me they would be here.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's an example to me of how you know they trust their kid and they want their kid to not harass them and say, Can I go with my friends?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Can I go with my friends?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Can I go with my friends?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so then the parent bargains and negotiates with them and says, You can go with your friends if you come back for whatever.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: In this case, it happens to be a meeting of mine, you know, a meeting with me.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then they don't.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Or a police officer brings Johnny home and says, I caught Johnny's spray painting on the wall at the church down the street.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: The parent will say, I can't believe you did this to me.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: I trusted you, I thought I let you do whatever, fill in the blank.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then the belief is that because the parent let the kid do this whatever behavior, and usually it's like inappropriate behavior, the kid was then going to stay out of trouble and not have the police get called on them.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what that's what we're yeah, so the way it backfalls.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's what you're talking about, and as far as the scratching scrap, you know, you scratched your kid's back by letting them do this behavior that potentially isn't appropriate, but it's uh usually it's to get them out of your hair because you can't handle the the constant stress that they're um bringing into your life.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so you you do this, and then your kid makes this inappropriate choice, and then you find out as the parent, and you just get even more distressed because you thought there was this agreement that you had with your kid, but it was an implicit agreement, it wasn't explicit, and so your kid had no agreement in their mind other than I want to do this thing, and now my parents letting me do this thing.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the you scratch my back, I'll scratch your back thinking error, and that usually is created because that parent, when they were a kid, um that's the kind of experience they had growing up, and so their parents probably didn't have a tolerance level, and so then they probably interacted with their parent in the same way.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, what's the solution?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So to that.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: So the yeah, so the backfire is when you give in, it the kid doesn't take it as okay, now I'll scratch my parents back and you know reciprocate.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's now the parent has set up a precedent, which I know uh if I push and if I stress them out, they'll cave in and give me this thing.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the fix is handling stress better so that you don't cave in and establishing a new precedent um for what what it will take for your kid to get the thing that they're demanding, if that makes any sense.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: So if they want a privilege, if they want um a reward, they have to earn it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: They can't get it through whining, complaining, and bad behavior.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I think for the parent, the fix is better stress management so that your kid's tactics won't work, and then having a new standard, like I said before, for what earns them a privilege, which is good behavior, you know, doing chores, consistently doing the thing that you want them to do.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think one of the things that I agree with you, and I think the the challenge that I'm hearing is that um you know, managing the stress.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think as a parent you have to recognize when you were starting to get stressed out in the first place.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think by the time your kids asking you the same thing six or seven times and you give in, you're past your ability to uh manage your stress.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that it's knowing what you're here for example, I think it's planning your day out, knowing what you're gonna what your day is gonna be like.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we're in the summer now, so usually kids aren't in school, and so there's a lot of free time that kids have.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you know that today is you know a Tuesday and tomorrow's gonna be a Wednesday, you know that your kids are gonna have a lot of free time tomorrow, sitting with them and planning out their day is something that is an appropriate way to maybe deal with stress.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you if you have a teenager and they want to go hang out with friends, um I I think it's completely reasonable to say, I want you to hang out with your friends too, but here's some chores that I want you to, here's some tasks that I want you to accomplish before you go out and hang out with your friends.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you talk about that the the day before, so then your teenager can actually be thinking about it rather than I want to go hang out with my friends right now.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then the parent says, Oh no, no, you need to do these chores, which they're gonna butt heads with their parents generally because no, they want to go with their friends, they don't want to sit and do chores.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think as a parent it's important for you to have an idea of what as to to know what your triggers are for stress.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so one solution again is just to plan your day out or even plan your week out if you want to.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um did you have any ideas on how to deal with potentially reduce the stress of the moment?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I think you're right, like you've gotta know your triggers.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the first step.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think awareness is half the battle.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: So knowing exactly what your kid does or what situational factors that push you into that place where you're you don't you're not acting in a in a from a good place.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: You're not responding to things from your kid in a way that you want.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: You're kind of operating at your lowest level of functioning.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to understand what it is that pushes you to that point.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: What is it?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like a name calling that your kid does, or maybe you're getting a text and a and a call, and then your kid's asking for something and all those things are happening at the same time.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you're late for an appointment.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: What is it that pushes you to your worst?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then, like David said, have a plan for managing the stress that lets you then respond in a way that you want.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: So trigger a new way of handling stress and then responding in the way that you want.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: So ways that you can handle stress better are uh you know simple things like deep breathing, um doing uh what's it called where you you systematically uh stress and release your body?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: What is that we're talking about?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean if I've heard it, if I hear it, I probably would know, but it's like progressive relaxation.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: So ideas where like you tend to, you know, some people do this where they tend certain muscles.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, test your muscles and then relax them and then relax them.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean like really simple physical things that you can do.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think maybe just saying, hold on, son, or hold on, sweetie, we'll talk in five minutes.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Just so just so you're in control of you and you can take care of you.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then when your kid asking you for the same thing five times in a row, you can say, hold on, this is something we've talked about before, or this is something that you know you're not gonna get today or whatever.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know we've talked about that friend, that's a friend that we both don't agree with.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not gonna just came in and whole um setting to the expectations I have, but I think consistency is important because the more you the more you do that, the more your kids are gonna know, okay, one of the things I agree with is if you get to a place where you feel like you can't do it, then you think I'm competent.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's the first one of the first thinking errors that we're talking about is scratch my background, scratch your back.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be on a future episode of thinking errors from my book.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you have any questions, don't re contact email.com or check out my Facebook page.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Check out my answer.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's my Q.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Check out my my website, which I'm podcasting.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: All right, thanks for listening.
• 17:37
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