Latest / AbersochPodcast / Friendship, Fizz and Freezing Water | Jenny & Kay on Sea Dipping Joy

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Friendship, Fizz and Freezing Water | Jenny & Kay on Sea Dipping Joy · AbersochPodcast

0:10
Would you believe that cold water immersion increases your
0:13
dopamine by up to 250%? That's about the same as a
0:18
really good cup of coffee. Or I've heard marijuana.
0:23
So. And there you are.
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So it's illegal high. So dunking is illegal.
0:26
High Today's podcast is called Fizz, Friendship and Freezing
0:32
Water. Jenny and Kay's dunking Diaries.
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Now these guests today bring sunshine even when clouds gather
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and the seas in a foul mood. First up, Jenny, our high
0:45
spirited, proudly Australian pocket rocket, a daily dunker
0:50
with one foot in abirsock and the other often miles away.
0:54
Jenny studied medicine, switched to philosophy and now applies
0:58
both to life, which now applies both to life in and out of the
1:02
sea. She's known for a deep chats,
1:05
fast dives and sticking out in the choppiest of waves, often
1:09
first in and beaming from ear to ear and then joining her.
1:15
It's Kay who is best to who best summed it up herself.
1:20
I love being a dunker. Yes.
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Mum of three, full time carer and full of warmth, Kay's
1:26
journey has hasn't always been easy.
1:29
She's navigated tough times, mental health challenges and the
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loss of a very close dunker to all of us Jeff.
1:38
But through it all, the Dunkers have been her refuge and joyful
1:42
tribe. From aerobics with Julian, to
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those previous deep reflections with Jeff, and to the quiet
1:49
support of friends like Joe, Jan, and Angela, this is a story
1:54
of resilience, community, and cold water healing.
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Together, these two show us that no matter what, you're facing a
2:02
Rogue Wave, a life change, or a grey day.
2:06
Friendship and freezing water can lift your spirits like
2:09
nothing else. Absolutely.
2:11
Yeah, Kay, Jenny, welcome to Dunker's podcast.
2:14
Oh, welcome. Thank you very much.
2:17
Lovely. And you're absolutely right,
2:20
dunking is a joy. And you've just, you just keep
2:24
on doing it, don't you? Just keep on coming back more
2:26
and more. Can't put you off.
2:28
Can't. You.
2:29
I always think that well, like a hobnob biscuit.
2:31
Dump me again, Give me again. Well, like the Marine.
2:36
A hobnob biscuit. Yeah, this is it, Yeah.
2:38
Tell me what pulled you, Jenny? What pulled you into philosophy
2:41
and then into the water? Yeah, I'm not sure they're
2:45
linked. Actually, they are linked, I
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suspect what pulled me to philosophy questions like, you
2:53
know, the obvious ones. Where do we come from?
2:55
OK, and what is it all about? Yeah.
2:58
And ways of improving thinking overall.
3:01
I got into the great philosophers.
3:04
Just got mesmerised by mesmerised.
3:07
Did you find that they I go, I must warn you on these podcasts
3:12
that go off on left field, did you find that they offered you
3:16
clarity or did their reasoning create clarity for yourself?
3:22
Which? I wouldn't say clarity's a great
3:24
word to use. This Oh right, OK.
3:26
'Cause they lead you to thinking in great abstract thoughts and
3:30
or or sometimes specific thoughts.
3:32
But the the the complexity just broadens.
3:35
It doesn't get clearer. Oh, doesn't.
3:37
Things get much, much foggier for quite a long time.
3:40
Right. Do do they ever get clearer?
3:41
No. So.
3:44
You can I have been accused of being searching for searching
3:47
for reality for a long time. But, and I don't think I am
3:50
researching, but I I veered from philosophy into philosophy of
3:54
religion. So my main main interest became
3:57
the philosophy of of world religions with a small R and
4:02
particularly interested in Buddhism which has a philosophy
4:05
of its own and I believe is a philosophy in fact not a
4:07
religion. Is it?
4:09
I would argue that yes. Right, so do is for those who
4:13
actually don't actually aren't sort of au fait with the word
4:16
philosophy. Is philosophy then a learning or
4:19
a practice? It's a learning.
4:21
It's a study of knowledge. Study of knowledge, yes.
4:24
OK, so Buddhism doesn't hanker after being tied to all the
4:29
anchors of religion. It's it's about knowledge.
4:33
Is it? It's about it's, I would say
4:35
it's about phenomenology. It's about experiencing
4:38
phenomena OK in their true light.
4:41
Really. Yeah.
4:42
So I studied phenomenology, philosophical phenomenology.
4:46
Which easy for you to say it. Sounds sounds very complicated.
4:50
Basically when you're studying philosophy or religions or I
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suppose anything really. If you try and bracket your pre
4:58
perceptions of reality and just see objects as they really are,
5:03
then you get to closer to a truth.
5:05
So for instance, let me give you an example.
5:08
If I was talking about the God of the gods of Hinduism, if I
5:15
came into that having had a deeply Christian education and
5:19
used the word God in the, in the Hindus, I mean in the
5:25
Hellenistic sense, you know, the, the beatific God in the sky
5:29
looking after everybody, then I would not be able to understand
5:31
the concept of a, of a Hindu God whatsoever because they're a
5:35
completely different category. So you have to suspend your
5:37
understanding of God. As you know.
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As a Christian or Judaic or even Islamic and go into
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understanding the language and the phenomena of the Hindu God
5:49
in its own right, in its own setting, that's.
5:53
A bit, yeah. And that that learning takes you
5:56
down that path. Yeah.
5:57
Yeah, absolutely. Wow.
5:59
OK. So I mean and I said in my
6:02
introduction it was it was quite light hearted.
6:04
But for for Kay, it was definitely not light hearted
6:07
because she has been through and you have been through some
6:10
pretty tough times. Yeah.
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Can I just say though, unlike Jenny, I have got no knowledge
6:16
whatsoever. My, my, my knowledge is scared,
6:21
Kenny. Well, let let let me say that
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you you might not have quite the depth of knowledge that Jenny
6:27
has in that particular subject. It's only one subject in.
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But tell me, what drew you to the dunkers and has that in any
6:37
way helped you to heal? 0100 So I started dunking after
6:43
I went on a paddle boarding experience with the other Jen,
6:46
with Darwin Jen and we went with Emma.
6:50
She brought us down to the the beach and we did, she got us
6:54
kitted out and I thought there's no way I'm going to be able to
6:57
do this and I did it. But I was just getting over a
6:59
serious illness. I've been diagnosed with lupus
7:02
and psoriatic arthritis. So I really struggled getting up
7:06
on the board. I was a lot heavier as well then
7:09
and the next day I came. I got a parking ticket as well.
7:13
I did. I did my very first on me own
7:16
dunk. Really.
7:17
That's up at the Yeah, I did. And then I came back and I kept
7:24
coming back. And every time I'm here, I come
7:27
and I absolutely love it. And you think that the fact that
7:32
you do keep coming is a, is a discipline not, not unlike other
7:36
disciplines, Yeah. That you've just, you can just
7:39
sort of lock into and that will give you that anchor all the
7:43
time. I think it's it's therapy.
7:45
I think when you come and you speak to people who you would
7:48
never have, I would never have met people on the beach like
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that. Yeah, that's true.
7:53
But you make friendships that you'd never have made before.
7:57
So for me, I've made some true friends, Jen being one of them
8:02
and coming down to the beach. And it is a discipline.
8:04
But it's it's a good discipline. It's, yeah, it's a habit, a good
8:08
habit. I think it's more of a habit
8:10
than a discipline for me now. Yeah, you know, and I agree with
8:14
you about the friendship grouping.
8:15
It is just phenomenal what we get from each other, I think.
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And that helps you heal. Yes, It really does.
8:22
And all my morning chats with Jeff, you know, I was convinced
8:25
at one point that I was going to marry Jeff.
8:28
Yeah. Yeah.
8:29
And all my friends used to say you'll marry Jeff because we we
8:34
just shared so many moments together, just me and him.
8:37
It was always me and Jeff on the beach before anybody else.
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Yeah. Yeah, I remember.
8:40
And yeah, there was quite golden moments, those weren't they?
8:43
Yeah. Yeah, really.
8:45
I I think he definitely saved me.
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Really. Yeah, I do.
8:49
And so the fact that Jeff is remembered, I mean, every every
8:52
morning we'd go up and kick him in the head.
8:54
Yeah, and you like seeing Jeff? We loved it.
8:58
Really, Jeff? Yeah, but it's like this
9:00
morning, every morning, I always pop my head round the huts and I
9:04
also check just to see if he's there.
9:06
And I always say morning. Always.
9:08
Yeah, yeah, You know that. The last thing I said to him, I
9:10
said you're our beach Buddha, Jeff.
9:11
Yeah, that was the morning he died.
9:13
Oh, really? Yeah.
9:15
Goodness, I just, I said, Jeff, you're our beach Buddha.
9:18
Yeah, and he just gave me one of his characteristic grins.
9:21
And his little laughs. Yeah, yeah.
9:23
And then wandered off down the beach.
9:24
And then wandered off and that was it.
9:26
Yeah, yeah, it's no. Ironic, yeah.
9:28
It is. It is.
9:29
And the timing, I mean, yeah, there's the irony.
9:32
You. Just you.
9:33
You would I believe it if it. Hadn't, and I hadn't.
9:36
It was just strange. And that that one Christmas
9:39
morning when I stayed at your house, Jen.
9:41
And then I came down onto the beach and he'd put little tea
9:44
lights in all of the huts on Christmas morning and that will
9:48
stay with me forever. It was one of the special and I
9:51
had my first minutes pie on the beach.
9:55
That was, well, that overshadowed Jen.
9:57
Natural. But mince pies that Christmas do
10:01
have to take the the guiding light, don't they?
10:03
It was amazing, yeah. Yeah, no doubt about it.
10:05
So, so as far as yourself goes, Jen, do you feel that Duncan is
10:11
really sort of obviously you you mentioned community Kays just
10:15
you mentioned community. Do you think that that community
10:18
would have been as deep, or would you have found that
10:21
community because you've been down in Abbasot for a long time?
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Haven't. You O30 odd years.
10:24
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I've been, I've been
10:26
spending more like 6 months of the year here for about the last
10:29
7-8 years, right? Maybe more.
10:32
Yeah, yeah, says I guiltily. Yeah, well, it's, but I know I,
10:37
to answer your question directly, no, there's no way I
10:39
would have found this community without the dunking, without the
10:42
dunking. And and, you know, I'm slightly
10:44
disabled and I, you guys give me the most enormous amount of
10:47
support and encouragement, and therefore I feel very safe.
10:51
Yeah. And I can always rely on one of
10:52
you to drag me in and drag me out if I need it.
10:55
Literally shut up. OK.
10:57
Yeah. But you're there.
11:00
You're there. And the chats before and the
11:02
chats afterwards are just phenomenal.
11:04
Yes. And it doesn't take up too much
11:05
of your day. Half an hour and you're back
11:07
home and you're up, you know, up and out.
11:09
You've started your day in the most extraordinary, exhilarating
11:12
way. And.
11:13
Even if the wet, the weather's dodgy, the sea is against us.
11:16
Yeah, it doesn't matter. No, no.
11:18
And you know, the best one I can remember was when the sand was
11:22
frozen solid and walking down to the sea in the frozen solid
11:25
sand, that was phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal.
11:28
It crunched under your toes. It did, yeah.
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I thought for a minute, what am I doing here?
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And I said no, you know damn well what you're doing here.
11:35
Woman and I have have had series of operations on my hip and had
11:42
in for quite a long time, had quite a lot of pain from it.
11:46
But as soon as I dunk, it goes away and it stays away until I
11:50
haven't been able to dunk. But as you all know, recently I
11:53
haven't been able to dunk because of a rotten foot.
11:56
But so the pains come back. But I if I if I'm dunking
12:00
regularly, I have absolutely no pain in my hip whatsoever.
12:02
And that that's not that's not just within the hour after.
12:06
No, no, no, no, that. That's all day for a week.
12:08
You know it will come back after about two weeks.
12:10
Not dunking, but apart from that it's fantastic.
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It is. I was, I was actually just as a
12:15
sideline here I was listening to a a tape on from Wim Hof.
12:20
Oh yeah, who is obviously the sort of the, the acknowledged,
12:23
not guru, but he he sort of made it.
12:26
I would have used the word guru. I would have used the word guru,
12:28
yeah. OK, OK, probably Guru comes a
12:31
little bit easier to your lips than mine.
12:33
Possibly I'm too suburban. The, the, the fact is, and he
12:39
was saying that if we can just get into habits of breathing,
12:44
the, the three things, the three tenants that will absolutely get
12:48
us through without reliance on if effectively any type of
12:52
medication is firstly breathing, secondly is cold water.
12:58
And thirdly is mindfulness. And, and I think that dunkers,
13:02
all we dunkers, and I'm sure this is called dunkers podcast.
13:05
So hopefully over time we'll reach out to other dunkers
13:07
elsewhere in the world and elsewhere in in the UK to see
13:11
what their experiences were like.
13:14
But I think dunkers generally accept one or more of those
13:18
tenants, don't they? They're either mindful or they
13:21
practice a bit of breathing when they're getting into the water.
13:24
I know Jenny, you've said to me before that you sort of stand
13:27
there and you, you just take some deep breaths, don't you?
13:29
You get yourself together. Where some people hold their
13:33
breath and they're the ones like Mike, like Jen, Darwin, Jen, she
13:37
won't get in. She's just literally, she's not
13:40
breathing. She holds her breath.
13:41
Just breathe. Yeah, it makes such a
13:44
difference. It ironically going back to the
13:47
Buddhist thing, that breathing and mindfulness or meditation go
13:52
hand in hand. Yeah.
13:54
So. When I studied Zen Buddhism, for
13:56
instance, and I went off on study sessions and that one way
13:59
to get to develop your meditation is through
14:02
consciousness of breathing. OK.
14:04
And it just slows everything down and you can get to a level
14:08
of complete awareness without being aware of anything.
14:12
There you are. There's a double entendre.
14:15
But in actual fact, the person who went off was talking to, he
14:20
gave him a breathing exercise and he got into sort of breathe
14:24
deeply over probably 25 or maybe 30 breaths quite a lot.
14:31
And then he got to the point of, of of sort of real stillness and
14:36
said, OK, now you've, you've had your out breath, you've now
14:41
exhausted your lungs. Now just stay there for a minute
14:45
and don't breathe. And.
14:47
What with empty lungs? With empty lungs and his
14:50
mindfulness was able then to because what's happening is that
14:55
the CO2 is now is it effectively out of your body.
15:00
So and it's your CO2 that keeps in your body that keeps saying
15:04
breathe, breathe, breathe and and you've is emptied your your
15:08
your CO2 out of your body so you can just stay steady.
15:12
And that Stephen, who he was doing it with was was
15:16
absolutely, absolutely silent for a minute and this and
15:20
Brimhoff said, after you've done this for a while, you'll be able
15:24
to hold it for sort of three and two and three and minutes.
15:26
Wow. And just.
15:27
Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, and I guess that's, it's,
15:32
it's not my podcast, this is your podcast.
15:34
But I'll say this, I guess that that's about deep water diving.
15:38
But these three divers, yeah, 'cause that's they seem to be
15:41
able to go down for. Minutes.
15:44
Yeah, they do fire. I've I've heard even more yes
15:47
yeah. And I presume that's the way
15:48
they do it. Yeah, but it does.
15:50
But it can build up bubbles in your in your.
15:53
Yes. So you've got.
15:54
To be very. It's not a good idea.
15:57
I don't think I'm gonna try it, Mark.
15:59
Just everybody keep breathing, yeah?
16:01
Well, we should. Maybe we should have it as a
16:03
group. Try that, the Wim Hof breathing
16:06
and emptying our lungs, and see how many of us can last a minute
16:08
without breathing. Well, let's try it, shall we?
16:10
Have to go. Do we need a safety paddle
16:12
border at the side of us? Just these, these just on the
16:16
back because we're going blue. Are you volunteering, Kate?
16:20
No, I definitely do want want to do the island swim though, yeah.
16:24
Have you been on the paddle board since?
16:26
No. No, no.
16:29
So I've got no rhythm, I've got no coordination.
16:31
So there's a lot to think about when you're on a paddle board.
16:36
So yeah, I just think it's too much.
16:38
That's why I can't do front row, I can't do the breathing along
16:42
with the turning the head. I can't get it all together.
16:45
Whereas put me in the in the sea and I can swim, rest stroke no
16:49
bother. I'm probably stronger than any
16:52
front crawler really. I just, yeah, my coordination is
16:55
shocking. Well, no, it's a different
16:57
coordination. Yeah, that's all.
16:58
You just coordinate in a different way.
17:00
Yes, that's right. It's about because it's the
17:03
balance of your body, isn't it? I could never do the part your
17:07
head and rub your tummy thing at the same time as a child.
17:13
We won't go into that. I don't know whether it should
17:16
be called. It'll always go.
17:18
It'll always go off. No, no, Duncan's podcast
17:21
Aerobics 5 Ki can. I can almost see there isn't.
17:26
There's a session there twice a week at 10 lbs a session, yeah.
17:29
Absolutely. There's an opportunity there,
17:31
isn't there? Yeah, OK.
17:33
That's one for you, Julian. Yeah, that's one for you,
17:36
Julian. Absolutely.
17:38
So tell me, did you when you studied Zen, did you?
17:41
And Buddhism did you? Was that in India?
17:45
No, no, I'm afraid. It was in Canada where I
17:47
started. I studied Send Buddhism in
17:49
Canada. Yeah, I did.
17:50
That's how I became vegetarian too.
17:52
OK. Because I was living on the edge
17:54
of a Buddhist community of monks.
17:55
Not living on the edge, literally, but I I spent all my
17:58
spare time with them. I was actually the secretary to
18:01
the Dean of the theological college at King's University in
18:04
Kingston, ON. Very posh.
18:06
Very. It was.
18:07
Yes. And it's.
18:08
My business card in itself. And then when on my spare time,
18:11
I'd got very soft to this Buddhist, this Buddhist monks
18:15
and sit there and we'd meditate together and stuff.
18:17
And then I used to tease them because none of them ever had
18:21
any energy. And I've always had quite a lot
18:23
of yeah. Yeah, you have, You have.
18:27
Had quite a lot of. Energy.
18:29
No, I don't know what she's on about.
18:31
Anyways, seasonalize it. If you guys just got a steak
18:34
down you, you'd, you know, you could have as much energy as
18:37
I've got. And in their Buddhistic way,
18:40
they smiled gently and said, when did you last not eat meat?
18:44
And I said, oh, I'm Australian, you know, eat meat three times a
18:47
day and 10 times on Sunday. It's part of the religion of
18:50
Australia. I said, you know, except when
18:52
I'm sick, I don't remember not having meat every day.
18:54
And he said, well, go for one week without meat and see how
18:58
you feel. And if you don't feel
18:59
marvellous, you can buy us all a steak and we'll promise we'll
19:02
eat it. Wow.
19:03
Because the Buddhist has to eat what's given to them.
19:05
Oh really? That's part of.
19:07
Even though they're vegetarian, but if somebody gave them a
19:09
steak they would have to eat it out of.
19:11
Courtesy. Out of courtesy, yeah.
19:14
So I stay. I did that.
19:16
I had went down to the health food shop to buy a book on
19:20
vegetarian eating, passed the butcher on the way and had a
19:23
special on lamb breast, which was my favorite meat.
19:25
So I bought it up and shoved it in the little freezer in my
19:28
little flat and bought a book on vegetarian eating.
19:30
And I've not eaten meat since. Wow.
19:32
And is that piece of meat still in your flat in the fridge?
19:38
I'm I'm worried about the fridge in your flat now.
19:41
Well, it's a good question, actually, yeah.
19:45
Yeah, well, perhaps we ought to move on.
19:48
So is there, Kay? What else do you do besides, I
19:51
mean, what do you do at home? Because you'd be what we would
19:53
class as an urban dunker, somebody who would every
19:56
opportunity would get into the sea and and sometimes might
20:00
even. Swimming the Manchester Ship
20:03
Canal or wherever you happen to be but.
20:05
Yeah, so when I did, I've always swam in the sea since I was,
20:10
I've been coming here as a child, as a baby, but I didn't
20:14
want to not cold water swim. So I go anywhere and everywhere.
20:19
But it has to have water going in.
20:21
I don't like stagnant water, you know, with a, a few ducks.
20:25
No, it's, that's not for me. It has to have a water flow
20:28
going in like a waterfall or something.
20:31
And so we found an old cotton mill called Cheese and Love and
20:35
it's a it's got a waterfall going into it.
20:38
It doesn't look anything, but it's so beautiful.
20:41
So we go there quite a lot. And so, yeah, that's.
20:44
The cotton mills not working though, no.
20:46
So you're not getting, you're not getting spoiled from cotton.
20:49
No, but it's, it's amazing in the winter when all the icicles
20:53
are there. It's so picturesque and you get
20:55
your cold water hit and it's just stunning.
20:59
And I've met. So we, we, we were called the
21:02
doggers. Do you think you've changed
21:06
that? Date.
21:06
Now I think I might change that name.
21:08
We had to, we had to the reason why it came because, because
21:11
where we used to meet was Doggers Lane.
21:14
So think of that as you will. And then so we actually had to
21:19
change it to froggers. So we're now the froggers.
21:22
And I like that. Yeah, I've met a new set of
21:25
friends doing doing the cold water swims at home.
21:28
But it doesn't beat the sea. No, no.
21:30
And it doesn't beat coming here. So yesterday morning I set off
21:34
at 4:00 AM to make sure I was there at 8:00 AM for for the
21:38
well, 8:15 for the dunk. Yesterday morning, nothing was
21:41
going to stop me. No, that's, that's, that's
21:43
almost religious Ellet, isn't it?
21:45
It is absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
21:47
And so absolutely, that sort of balance pushes effectively
21:51
pushes your limits all the time, doesn't.
21:53
It yeah, but it it makes me feel so much better.
21:57
You can, you can. You can be all mithered and
22:00
wound up or whatever with the three.
22:02
They are children, but they're they're grown up, 1618 and 23
22:06
and it just gets me away. I can actually.
22:10
They know that I can't answer my phone when I'm dunking or
22:13
dipping or so. And the phone does tend to sort
22:16
of just take over our lives. It does so.
22:19
Especially with like, I guess with three kids, yes.
22:21
Yeah, so they know if I'm dipping they won't ring me,
22:24
which is sometimes I lie. You just said this on public.
22:31
Sorry, children. You do know your mum's not going
22:35
to switch your phone on till 3:00 this afternoon, so long dip
22:39
today. It really is.
22:41
But yeah, it's great. And then I'm a carer in the day
22:44
my my main job. Right.
22:47
So, yeah, yeah. So how do you, how do you
22:50
balance sort of caring and and dunking and that sort of spirit?
22:56
Because you've obviously got a really open spirit of abandoned
23:00
and almost a free spirit, Yeah. Absolutely.
23:03
I'm just thinking that, oh, what's it, what's it?
23:07
The festival the is on, get a thank you.
23:11
It's on at the moment. And that's all about free
23:13
spirit, isn't it? Isn't it?
23:14
Yeah, and. See, that's too much for me.
23:17
Yeah. So I might be a free spirit, but
23:19
I like, I like quiet. Even though I'm a loud person, I
23:24
like to be just. I like the peaceful surroundings
23:28
and things like that and the picturesque surroundings.
23:30
A festival life isn't my style, right?
23:33
You know, give me a hammock in the middle of a tree, you know,
23:37
in two trees, and that, that'd be perfect.
23:40
Yeah, absolutely. Do you think I ought to tell you
23:41
we've got hammock in between 2 trees in?
23:43
The garden, Well say that'd be a full time carer for you and you
23:47
know you've got my name on it. You've got your name on it.
23:50
Yeah. Thank you.
23:51
I'm glad. I'm glad of that.
23:52
So, and, and Jenny, I'm just trying to sort of find
23:56
comparisons here because I think our listener would be interested
23:59
in comparisons because obviously we've talked about different
24:02
religions, especially Buddhism and, and how different that is
24:06
probably to the stereotype of let's go to church on a Sunday
24:10
and get, you know, because Buddhism is, is applicable 24/7
24:15
365. Isn't it?
24:17
It's always there. It's always there.
24:19
It should be always underlying your reality, you.
24:21
You don't have to make an effort to, and this is said with the
24:25
greatest respect to the people who do enjoy going to church.
24:28
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, everybody has their own
24:31
path. They they do enjoy spiritual
24:33
awareness. Don't.
24:33
They and their, their sort of nudge, if you like, is each week
24:37
we'll go to church and it'll be a different community and
24:40
there's a different reason and, and a lot of people go for
24:43
singing. But the, the, the, the fact is
24:45
that they go for their own sort of their own individual needs.
24:49
Buddhism seems to be a, a sort of a, it's a complete way of
24:53
life, isn't it? It's.
24:55
I would think that they're absolutely, absolutely right,
24:57
Mark, Absolutely. It's a way of life.
24:59
It's a way of living, it's a way of being aware and it's a way of
25:03
giving, I think because that's. Beautiful.
25:05
Giving is, is probably the most important thing you can do.
25:08
There's a great Buddhist concept of karma.
25:11
Well, it's an Indian concept of karma.
25:12
Karma. Yeah.
25:13
Good karma. You build up good karma by doing
25:15
good deeds, good thoughts. And while I I never think about
25:20
it really in those terms, but it is a fundamental principle of
25:24
all Indian religions. I think.
25:27
I say that I'm sure it is. Certainly it's Hinduism,
25:30
Buddhism, and that wasn't, yeah, I think it is of all Indian
25:34
religions and or Eastern religions even.
25:37
So you build up good karma by doing good deeds.
25:39
And obviously underlying this concept there is the concept of
25:43
rebirth, so that when you die, you have built up enough karma
25:47
to be reborn into a suitable lifestyle to what you would like
25:51
to be. I like that.
25:52
See, I'm not religious at all. Not one, but I'm C of E but I've
25:56
never been to church. But I'd like to say that I
25:59
believe in the good karma and I feel like I'm a nice person
26:03
sometimes. I'd reckon you might be too.
26:05
So I like that. Good karma.
26:08
I don't know about me being reborn though.
26:09
People think, oh, we've had enough of her.
26:13
Two of them is just too much. What?
26:16
What is Kay going to emerge as? Come back as a mermaid like
26:20
Michelle. Oh, I don't think that'd be
26:22
magic. Wouldn't be amazing.
26:24
You see, the dunkers need mermaids, don't we?
26:26
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:29
So so. Kay the mermaid.
26:31
I love that. So.
26:33
So have I answered your? Yes, you have answered my
26:35
question because what I'm I'm really interested in also is
26:39
coming back to dunking. Did you ever?
26:41
Because obviously you just covered Buddhism, Buddhism when
26:45
you were in China, in Canada. Yeah.
26:48
You, you didn't make that following when you were in
26:50
Australia. No, because I was too young.
26:53
I I I left Australia when I was 15.
26:55
Oh, did you? Yeah, Yeah.
26:56
OK, so I finished high school in in Canada, in Montreal, and then
26:59
I went off to university extensively to study medicine to
27:02
begin with, and then had this amazing professor called Bill
27:05
Zion, which is quite ironic, who've taught me philosophy of
27:09
religion. And I never wanted to study
27:12
anything else. Ever since then, it's all I've
27:13
done all my life, really. Just I taught it.
27:16
I did. You studied it.
27:17
Yeah. Yeah.
27:18
So he was the awakening. He was the awakening.
27:20
Yeah, yeah. And I think the awakening hits
27:23
us all in somewhere because, yeah, in exactly the same way,
27:27
but in a different way. If that's not an Irie or mixed
27:32
metaphor, you, you sort of found something completely different
27:35
in your life, didn't you? You were doing.
27:37
You've never been a carer for years and.
27:39
Years and years I've worked at City Press, which was APR agency
27:43
since I was 16 years old. And it was just, I just found
27:48
caring by accident really, because I was looking after my
27:52
Auntie Wendy and I thought I need to do this full time.
27:55
And I did. And I, I ditched my job and went
27:58
and was a carer. And I absolutely love it.
28:01
It's like going to work with my friends.
28:04
Everybody always says like, how do you work with old people?
28:06
And I'm like, the bodies might be a bit old.
28:09
So but the, the mines are exactly the same as yours and
28:12
mine and they have a belt in time.
28:13
Every time I'm with them, there's not, there's not a day
28:16
that something doesn't happen. I think the other morning was
28:19
really funny because a gentleman had lost his teeth.
28:23
I just had my hair lovely blow dried and I was sweating.
28:27
I could have, I could have murdered him, but we didn't.
28:30
We had a right laugh looking for these teeth.
28:31
We found them eventually in the washing powder tablet.
28:34
So it was all. In the washing.
28:36
Powder tablet. Yeah, some, you know, like
28:38
that's the obvious place. But we have such a laugh.
28:42
Yeah. We'd rather got in there.
28:43
I absolutely don't know I. Hope you've been to them before.
28:47
I had to. Yeah, I had to The joys.
28:51
But yeah, I love caring and it's brilliant.
28:52
It's definitely me. Didn't you take that up when you
28:54
first started dunking here? The caring, I was doing the
28:58
caring when my Auntie Wendy got diagnosed with dementia.
29:02
So I was doing that and I wasn't being paid on my days off.
29:04
So I used to work three days for City Press and then the other
29:07
days I'd go and do my Auntie Wendy's cleaning or take her out
29:11
for a drink, you know, coffee and a breakfast.
29:13
Because when you've got dementia, you, you forget to
29:15
eat. They don't realise.
29:18
And then I thought, why am I going back to an office?
29:21
Why am I doing that? So I jacked and it was sad to
29:25
see me go. Breath of fresh air.
29:27
Yeah. And I love it.
29:28
I absolutely love it. It's belty, the button on the
29:32
best bits of my day. And it's that sometimes I can do
29:35
a nine hour day and it's flu. Is that because you get up at
29:39
4:30? That's.
29:40
A hard time to. Get up.
29:41
OK. I always get up at 4:30, walk my
29:43
dogs and then go for a swim at the swimming baths for 6:00 AM
29:48
and then I go to work for 8:00 and then I finish at half nine
29:51
at night. Long days.
29:53
But I only do that two days a week.
29:55
So I do all my hours in two full days and then a work alternate
29:59
weekends. So yeah.
30:02
And I've got, I'm going to really dig back into something
30:06
that I remember you saying many years ago.
30:08
Oh God, I had. Well, many years ago, many moons
30:10
ago, and that was you'd always have a bit of a punch on that, a
30:14
desire to go naked, dunking. Have you ever?
30:17
Have you ever done it yet? Yes, me and my friend Kerry,
30:19
who's one of the frauders. Forget that she.
30:22
Never forgets that. Don't tell me.
30:26
My lovely friend Kerry, who's also a Frogger, she came and
30:30
spent the weekend at my caravan and we actually went at Nephin
30:34
Beach and we both did it at night and it was, we'd been to
30:40
the the hotel in, in Nephin, can't remember what it's called
30:44
now. And no, it wasn't because it was
30:48
actually hidden Nephin. It wasn't Morphin Nephin, it was
30:50
Nephin. It's a hotel and we went there
30:53
for our evening meal and then we said should we just do it?
30:55
So we drove down after and we just did it.
30:58
We didn't even have a towel or anything.
31:00
We just went in. We both held hands and the moon
31:02
was there and just bloody belting.
31:06
Like as you can see, that's my word.
31:07
I love it. It really.
31:09
It was really good. Yeah.
31:11
It's almost an outer body, wasn't it?
31:13
Yes, absolutely. Outer body, you know, I had to
31:15
carry my breasts back to the car.
31:24
So that was more body. No, I'm so sorry.
31:31
I apologize. You're wonderful.
31:34
Wonderful. It would be me, yeah.
31:38
So do you think you would go dunking as much in Australia if
31:41
you actually? Live there.
31:42
Yeah, I would, yeah. Yeah, we had somebody there this
31:45
morning from Australia. I know I was talking to him.
31:47
He, he was so shocked by how cold it was, he said, yeah, he
31:51
said he's been dunking like swimming in Australia in the
31:53
middle of winter when everybody thinking he's thinking he's mad.
31:56
He said it's not nearly as cold as it was in there today.
31:59
Really. He needs to come back on
32:01
Christmas Day. I told him that.
32:06
Yeah, I'm curious that these people just come once and then
32:08
they don't ever come back again. Yes.
32:10
You just wonder, why don't you? You do, actually, Yeah.
32:12
I think you've got to do it two or three times to really get the
32:15
buzz. Yeah, because I never thought
32:17
I'd stick it out. I don't know whether you
32:18
remember when I when I first started, I came down in my
32:20
dressing gown. Yes, she did.
32:22
I wasn't going to fork out on a dry Rd. because I thought I
32:25
thought I'm only going to do it once or twice.
32:27
Oh, I thought, I thought you, you've got a camper van, you're
32:30
sleeping in the in the car park and you just rolled.
32:33
Out just just being a cheapskate and then I got I got so into it
32:38
I thought, God, I've got to get a dry out because I want to do
32:40
this properly so. There's something about habit.
32:42
Is it if you do a, if you do the same thing for a month, it
32:45
becomes a habit, or I can't remember it?
32:48
Forgive me, I can't. Remember.
32:49
Yeah, but it's something like it's something like that, but.
32:51
I've not heard that. Yeah, if you do something long
32:53
enough, you know it becomes a habit.
32:55
But The thing is, for me it was instant.
32:58
It was instant, so I knew I was going to love it.
33:02
I never look back. Yeah, and you're the same.
33:04
I'm the same, yeah. Once I started, I just couldn't.
33:07
I can't not do it. Yeah.
33:08
No, and I get itchy when I'm back back in the Midlands.
33:11
I'm sort of dude. I want beautiful man.
33:13
Yeah. In that water.
33:16
But he could always do like Julian does and get he's got
33:19
himself a barrel. It looks just like a beer
33:22
barrel. I'm sure it isn't, and I'm sure.
33:24
You never know. I bet he's siphoning something
33:26
off the back of it or something. Well, exactly, yes.
33:29
And, and there's a picture that was coming round and of him in
33:32
this beer barrel and it's a it was plugged into something so
33:37
goodness knows what's inside it. But he was there with the glass
33:40
in his hand. And so, and he lives in the
33:42
Midlands. Sorry, that was the only reason
33:44
I mentioned you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:46
So I've thought about doing that actually.
33:48
But again, coming back to the whole community thing, the
33:51
community is a big part. Of it, Yeah.
33:54
And The thing is about dunking in your back garden in a barrel,
33:57
you haven't got that community. And also you've got to clean it.
34:00
Yeah, you know that's. That's the thing, isn't it?
34:02
It's a bit like a a Jacuzzi. Yeah, I couldn't be.
34:04
Bought a hot tub? Yeah, a hot tub.
34:06
Making sure it's all level and no.
34:09
People say to us, are you thinking of having a hot tub?
34:12
You know, because as we've got an Airbnb here, you know, what
34:17
is that going? To be the join plug.
34:19
Yeah, but you know, it's the amaiser of it because if you're
34:23
going to do it right, it's. Going to be clean, yeah, it's
34:25
going to be clean, absolutely. And also I don't like the
34:29
chemicals that they put in the keep it clean.
34:32
It always makes me sneeze. And you know what I'm like for
34:34
sneezing it's. Not a great idea, yeah.
34:36
It's not not not for me. OK, so let's go just a little
34:40
deeper to both of you and say if you could dunk with anyone
34:46
anywhere, who would it be and why and where would it be?
34:50
What a question mark. I know.
34:52
If you could dunk with anyone anywhere, who would it be and
34:57
where would it be? No.
35:00
You see, you could let your fantasies go.
35:02
You. I've got to be careful with how
35:04
far I go. You just go for it.
35:05
You. Just.
35:07
Kay's dad. I can choose.
35:08
It I know you go for, you go. For it, my is 100% Gerard
35:11
Butler. Gerard Butler on Abersoch Beach.
35:14
That would make my life. Yeah.
35:19
It wouldn't even just fit. Oh yeah.
35:21
Because he's absolutely handsome.
35:23
He's definitely my type of person.
35:25
And to be in the place where I love to be.
35:29
Dare I say that a second to Gerald Butler might be Jeff?
35:33
Oh yeah, 20%. Honestly, I miss him so much I
35:38
dare. We all do, yeah.
35:40
I really do miss him. I miss him terribly, yeah.
35:43
And Jenny is if there was. Well, it's a really.
35:46
Good question anywhere. I'm trying to think, and now
35:49
this is going to sound very odd. I can't remember.
35:51
He's exactly in the Doctor Who wrote the Four Pillars.
35:55
Dr. Chet, Oh. Chakragarty, Yes.
36:00
Oh. I because he's come down here
36:02
once, hasn't he? I believe.
36:05
Yes, he has. He's a friend of Vanessa's.
36:09
That's right. Yes.
36:10
He's and I would, I would love to try dunking with him.
36:13
I've read his books and I, I think they're astonishing.
36:15
Yeah. So I would just laughed on
36:17
Avistock Beach, of course, yeah. Of course.
36:20
Yeah, I think it would be amazing.
36:22
And he does. He would participate in the
36:24
before and after chitchat with some little modes of wisdom.
36:27
I believe we'll. See what we can do on that one
36:29
because I think, I mean, it's not unlike our kids actually
36:33
went to him as a doctor because he was a doctor in Wilmslow.
36:36
I know when we lived in Wilmslow, our kids, because I
36:39
went to a different practice. No, no.
36:41
And I don't know whether Sue, Sue, Sue and the kids went to
36:45
one practice. I went to another and don't know
36:47
whether Sue ever saw him, but the kids did and as when he came
36:51
down here, it was a you know, it was a oh Bing, I know you and
36:56
yeah, yeah, Raj and chatter. That's.
36:59
It. That's it.
37:00
Yeah. How do you say Chakrabarti?
37:01
Chakrabarti Yeah, yeah. I think so.
37:03
I think it's, I don't know whether you've read these books
37:06
or any of them, but. Yes, oh, they littered all over
37:08
the house. Oh, are they OK?
37:10
Sue. Sue is.
37:11
Speaking to the converted then. Sorry I'm so such a shallow
37:14
person because you're there about how you want to discuss
37:16
and I just want to perv on Gerard Butler.
37:21
I think you could say it's the. Opposite.
37:23
Yeah, but we get on. Do you know, I've, I've found
37:28
through our talks that everybody, these, these, this is
37:33
my work. Everybody has got some sort of
37:35
furniture to the life. There's there's one or two
37:38
things that make you, you. What would you say are yours,
37:42
Kay? Oh, oh, the furniture about
37:48
myself. Yeah, what would you what's?
37:51
You that, what's me? I think it's because I always
37:54
say that. Yeah, it's my voice.
37:58
Because I always say you can't, you won't see me coming.
38:01
You'll hear me coming. And that's what I think.
38:04
I always try, like my mum always says, can you speak properly?
38:09
I'm like, I don't know how to do that.
38:12
Yeah. But definitely, I think it's my
38:15
my gob. Lovely.
38:18
We love it though. I don't know.
38:20
You're going to, you're going to struggle to follow that.
38:23
Sorry, no, I'm going to withdraw at this point.
38:25
Mark, I haven't got a clue. I haven't got a clue what makes
38:27
me mean. OK.
38:29
Oh, you. All of you.
38:32
I, I yeah, absolutely. I think, I think your whole
38:35
being yeah, is why people seek you out.
38:38
It's honestly that simple. Really.
38:40
Yeah. Yeah.
38:41
I think you are a you. You and yourself are a
38:43
destination. Yeah, goodness me, 5 seconds.
38:48
The, the journey for us, I don't know whether you'd agree, Kate,
38:51
the journey for us is going on the beach and being dunkers and
38:56
being dunkers because we know you're going to be a dunker.
38:58
But our destination is, is definitely you.
39:02
And I think that. That's good.
39:04
I love that. Beautiful thing to say.
39:07
Well, you are beautiful. You are beautiful.
39:10
Well, before, excuse me, before we finish, what we've always
39:13
asked people is to leave a question for the next podcaster.
39:19
Now we never know, you know, we never tell you who it was and we
39:22
don't tell you who's left the question.
39:24
So I've got 2 questions because obviously there's two of you.
39:26
I'm not going to ask you the same thing.
39:28
So who wants to go first? I'll go first.
39:32
You'll go first, OK. If that's all right, Jen.
39:35
Of course, Kay. OK, so if, Kay, if you could go
39:42
back in time and change one specific moment in your life,
39:47
what would it be and why? Oh, I think it would be.
40:00
Oh gosh, that's a difficult 1, isn't it?
40:05
I think I would go back to my 30s.
40:12
To that particular time, because that was when I had and I'd
40:16
probably try and foresee what was going to happen and try and
40:21
make myself a better person then.
40:25
Yeah, my 30s was a good time before I started getting poorly.
40:30
Yeah, that's that would be my 30s.
40:33
I would only observe and say I don't think you'd be a better
40:35
person. You might be a different person,
40:37
but I don't think you'd be better than you are.
40:38
Thank you, Mark. I would agree with that.
40:41
Yeah. Yeah.
40:42
Thank you. That's lovely.
40:43
You'd be very hard to better you, I think, Kay.
40:45
Oh, thanks. And Jen, this is going to be a
40:48
revealer. No, tell.
40:50
Tell me something that you've never told anybody before.
40:55
Careful. Don't prompt her.
41:05
This is a tricky one. It's something I've never told
41:08
anybody before. It could be that you had sugar
41:11
with your teeth at one time and you don't anymore.
41:14
You've got my teeth, did you say?
41:17
You've got to make it fun, Jenny.
41:18
It's got to be a good. It's got to be a good.
41:20
No, it's. It's just.
41:22
Well, this is going to sound very absurd.
41:24
That's great. But I I have heard and then saw
41:28
an Angel come in through my bedroom window up at Killen.
41:33
Really. Yeah, recently.
41:36
Three years ago. Wow.
41:38
What pre empted that? I was doing a lot of meditation
41:41
at the time and a lot of searching into phenomena in my
41:47
unconscious. And at about 5:00 in the morning
41:53
I heard this clatter like a Venetian blind, but I don't have
41:57
Venetian blinds. I heard this clatter and I
42:00
looked up and there was an Angel sitting on a swing thing and I
42:07
just got up and walked around thinking I was going bananas and
42:10
I was dreaming. Went back to bed and looked up
42:14
again and and the lights started to come up.
42:19
It was about it wasn't in deep summer, it was in the autumn and
42:24
the lights started to come up from outside.
42:27
It was so I can't remember exactly what time, I don't even
42:29
know. And as the lights started to
42:32
come up, the vision of the Angel coalesced into a bright,
42:38
beautiful light and stayed there for about four hours.
42:42
I love that. That was amazing.
42:44
Yeah. Was was that a vision?
42:48
A spirit? Do you ever want to know what it
42:54
was a it? Was a phenomenon of some kind.
42:56
Yeah, wow. And I couldn't, I didn't want to
43:00
put my interpretation on it because because as as my
43:04
philosophy is that you can't over interpret things.
43:07
You just got to experience them. The raw thing is the experience.
43:11
So I don't try and interpret it. It did give me a sense of
43:16
wonder. Though Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure.
43:18
Thank you for allowing us to experience that.
43:21
That is, that is a very private thing, yeah, but that's.
43:24
Honestly, I was literally like, you know what?
43:28
Just how you say things as well. Again, it's amazing that you've
43:31
went. Yeah, like you've witnessed
43:33
that. You saw that it was it and
43:34
you've shared it with us. Yeah, I know.
43:38
But this happened a little bit. Tearful.
43:40
Yeah, actually, I love it. I.
43:41
Think you might have shared it with just a little bit wider
43:44
audience? Everybody's going to look at me
43:46
as if I'm Gaga. No, you're not.
43:47
You're absolutely no. It's amazing.
43:49
It's amazing. Well, I'd like to thank you both
43:52
for the time and your honesty, your openness, because I've
43:55
really, really enjoyed it. So thank you both very much
43:59
indeed. Thank.
44:00
You so much. And honestly, it has been a
44:03
pleasure and I would just simply finish by saying may the spirit
44:07
of the dunkers go with you. Oh, and also with you.
44:10
Thank you.