Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Clear CLARITY Winner = $JUP on Solana?🚀Jupiter INTERVIEW🚨

Transcript

Clear CLARITY Winner = $JUP on Solana?🚀Jupiter INTERVIEW🚨 · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Let's dive into it today, because of course, clarity is
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: going to impact some of the biggest ecosystems out there.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: The one I'm watching and I think you might be
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: as well, is going to be Jupiter. We're going to
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: break it down with one of the key people over
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: at Jupiter that'll be joining in today. Before we get started,
• 0:15
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  Speaker 1: this is the wallet for you, guys. Let's jump into
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: it today. Of course I want to bring in Cash.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Who is the COO of Jupiter just to jump into it, Cash,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: How are.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: You I'm doing, al Paul, very excited to be here.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, great, Thanks for coming down. We've been trying to
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: get the Jupiter team on for some time, so so
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: happy that you were able to reach out and we
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: were able to pull this across the line. So first
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: of all, let's get into a little bit of what's
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: happening with Clarity. You look at where I think a
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: lot of chains will benefit from Clarity, Solana is probably
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: one of the better ones. Do you think that Solana
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: will be the most beneficial compatriot of where Clarity is
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: going to go in the future.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I think it's certainly, you know, in the top three
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I think Clarity and when it passes, and again it
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: depends a little bit on what the specifics are within
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: the bill, but it is going to be a massive
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: accelerant for this entire industry, right really taking it out
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: of the shadows, giving real clarity on who's actually regulating what,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: and a number of other, you know, important things that
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: will unlock token creation. Certainly, Solana is the home for
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: you know, the vast majority of token creation these days,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: and a number of other very high quality assets are
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: ways and so forth, and so I think all of
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: that gets much easier post clarity. And so anyone who's
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: trying to like play the clarity trade, I think should
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: be looking at who who has actual users, who has
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: actual volume, and then it's pretty logical thing that's just
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: going to accelerate from there.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: How does clarity affect you, guys, the Jupiter ecosystem in general?
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Where would be some of the low hanging fruit that
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: you would see.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: There's a few specific areas that'd be really helpful. So
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: one is things that we can and can't do with
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: the token itself. So if we have the Jupiter token
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: or jup and historically it's been pretty unclear what's kind
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: of allowed and not allowed. So having some clarity that
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: would be really helpful for us personally, certainly as the
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: premiere kind of trading venue. You know, we did like
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: one point two trillion dollars last year in trading volume.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Having other projects have that clarity as well, and more
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: projects willing to issue high quality assets is very good
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: for us the amount of trading volume we have. And
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: then the big one that I'm interested to see that,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: as far as I understand, is still kind of in
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: contention is what you can do with stable coins and
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: the underlying yield there. We recently issued jupusd our own
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: stable coin, and while GPSD is not itself a yield
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: bring stable coin, we are able to share the economics
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: back through our lending market wallet, through other products like
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: limit orders, DCA's prediction markets, et cetera. And it'd be
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: interesting to see if we can kind of make that
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: more formalized and official rather than you know, having to
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: share the economics in this kind of roundabout way.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the key here is we're going to
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: see a lot of new products coming out of both
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: of DeFi as well as the trad five markets in general.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: When you look at your website, I'll go over jupe ag.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: This kind of lines up a whole set of products
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: and services that you guys are offering. Can you give
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: our audience kind of a rundown on your current lineup
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: of products? What's the most successful? I can.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: I will need you know, two to three hours to
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: go through it. We have I think thirteen products live
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: right now. It's far I'd really break them up into
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: three general categories. So first you have the trading products,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: then you have the kind of yield and credit products,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: and then you have the management products is the third
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: major vertical. There's other things mixed in launch, et cetera.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: But on the training side, training has been kind of
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: our bread and butter. Jupiter started as a dex aggregator.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: We have something like ninety plus percent market share and
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: not on Solana, and we also have the number one
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: perpse platform on Salona in terms of fee paying traders.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: We do have other trading related products like prediction markets
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: and partnership with poly Market and so forth, but really
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Spot and Purpose are where were the strongest over there.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: And then on the earning side, the big one, of
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: course is Jupiter Lend, which is the fastest scrowing money
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: market anywhere. I launched about six or seven months ago,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: hit a billion dollars until we supply in eight days
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: and has really just been up into the right since then.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Despite you know, obviously the markets and the actual asset
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: values going down, we continue to see you know, I
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: think our all time high is like one point eight billion,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: and that was my sole was much higher. So we're
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: seeing we have the single deepest pool of stable coins
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: on Salona right now five hundred and forty million in
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: USDC in some other things. And then finally, I would
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: say for anyone who's watching this that hasn't actually checked
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: out Jupiter, the one that I always like to recommend
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: is the Portfolio. Portfolio tool entirely free. We track like
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty different protocols, show your yields, show
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: much of other things. So that one, I think we're
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: doing something like three million users per quarter if I'm
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: not mistaken, and so we're seeing a much of attractional
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: grow on that side as well.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Both of these are good products. I use the lend
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: and the Portfolio find it to be really efficient. Any
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: new products that you think you could roll out in
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty six.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: There are a few, so I should say there's a
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: few that are getting kind of like major upgrades. So
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Jupiter Mobile is our mobile wallet, more than a million
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: downloads and just fantastically fast and I think eight x
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: cheaper than a lot of the competition. Is. That's going
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: to get some major new upgrades, including something we just
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: launched not by like two weeks ago, which is something
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: called Jupiter Global. So now we have a card product
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: built directly into Jupiter Mobile, so you can spend your
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: stable coins anywhere, named accounts and multiple currencies on ramp off, ramp,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: bank deposits, et cetera. All that coming in. So really
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: trying to invest in the payments vertical as one major place.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: And the second major thing that we're going to be
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: rolling out very soon is a peer to peer lending
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: protocol called offer Book, And the idea there is basically, hey,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: you know, Jupiter lend is fantastic, but it's only got
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: whatever ten fifteen assets, right, you can only really have
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: blue chip assets in this peer to pool model. But
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: the beauty of crypto is in the long tail, and
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: the beauty of crypto is in turning idle assets into
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: productive assets. And so offer Book, as the product's going
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: to be called, will be able to offer this peer
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: to peer lending experience where any token can be used
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: as collateral, so you can start earning on it, you
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: can lend against it, so on and so forth. And
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: now I'm really especially as RWAs come on Chane in
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: a really big way.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Token I Stock, Well, you get into RBA's you get
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: to talk about token is stocks. What do you think
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: is going to happen right now to say stock x
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: or x stox excuse me, and ONTO holders, especially in
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: the US, because right now, do you think we're kind
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: of in a limbo zone right now, or do you
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: feel like this is going to develop into something that
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: you know everyone can use in the future.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: I think everyone will use it in the future. I
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: do think it'll depend a little bit on what the
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: segment is kind of looking for. So to my view,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: there's kind of like three large domains where you're looking
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: at token stocks, right So the first I would say
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: is by the least tokenized of them all, which is
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: equity purpose that you might see on a bunch of
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: these different platforms across crypto, and that's really great for
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: the pure speculators who don't really care about the underlying
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: and they just want to take margin and kind of
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: speculator where the future those prices go. Those are good
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: products already. The second category is where I put ONTO
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: and X stocks, which are kind of these like stock coins.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Almost right there, you're mostly getting price exposure to the
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: underlying which is still very useful. We're going to be
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: adding X stocks into Jupiter Lend very soon, and that
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: unlocks a bunch of things around access and kind of
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: productivity of those assets. And then the third category is
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: probably the most interesting and the least developed, which is
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: like real tokenized equities. And this is what super State
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: and some others are doing where owning it on chain
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: it actually allows you to reflect even that the ownership
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: ledger are held at whatever the d CC or any
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: other kind of like formal body, and there you have
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: like full voting rights, you have full kind of you know,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: rights on dividends and so on and so forth. That's
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: probably the most interesting one that I think has the
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: most room to grow as we kind of see traditional
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: trat firails become on chain rails over time.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, we've talked to many in the trad
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: fi market here about this very issue is just the
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: token is stock explosion that's about to happen. If you
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: look at Americans, you know, this is one of the
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: biggest markets out there. Why would they choose token is
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: stocks right now? On jupe? Even if you were to
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: bring in you know, native assets versus something like a
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Nasdaq or a DTCC.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: I think for many Americans it is hard to make
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: a compelling case today. I think where for Americans in particular,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: who already have really good access to these assets, the
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: real value unlock is going to come when you can
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: do things with those equities on chain that you can't
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: do off chain. And so that's really where I think
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: D five plays a major role. Right now. The products
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: are still young, you know. I think in December twenty
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: twenty four, it was about fourteen million dollars in AUM
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: of token I stocks on chain. Now that's about nine
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million, right, So we've seen a lot
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: of growth recently, but it's still tiny compared to them
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: many many trillions off chain. So we need to see
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: more liquidity come on chain to be able to support
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: those use cases, and then we need to see more
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: integrations able to those use cases as well. But once
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: you can actually use that for collateral, you know, that's
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: something that the rich have been able to do in
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: America for many, many years, but you know, me or
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: you as a normal guy or have not really been
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: had that same level of access. So the new types
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: of products you can build around it, and the ecosystem
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: around it that makes that more productive is what I
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: think will draw people in eventually. Not to say anything
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: of people outside of America who have a much longer
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: time be'sing these products.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: How long do you think that would take? I mean,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: because this is and everything's been moving very fast. You know,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: obviously since we had Paul Atkin step in at the SEC,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: we have a pro crypto president, now we have Congress
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: trying to get Clarity through genius has already done. How
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: long do you think we'll see that component? Because I
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: think you're right. I think it's going to be one
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: of the biggest.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: I think that there's really two blockers, and how fast
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: they get solved will, I think influence the final answer here.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: The two blockers right now are one is king to
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: like trust of an understanding of what crypto is. Right,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: most people, you know, my mom or whoever else you
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: tell about crypto, they mostly think of, you know, fart
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: coin or whatever random kind of scams that are out there.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: So there's still like a trust and education gap that
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: needs to be done first, which I think Clarity will
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: hopefully make big progress on because they'll see major institutions
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: using crypto and new ways. And then the second quite honestly,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: some of the people I'm talking about enough is the
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: on ramp problem. Right, if you want on ramp serious
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: funds in without going through a centralized exchange, you're looking
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: at three four percent just to get on chain. And
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: if you're able to get whatever, let's say, six percent
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: on your Tesla stock on chain, but you're giving up
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: three percent just to on ramp another three percent when
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: you're off ramp. We haven't really created something much better, right,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: And so I think that those two problems both need
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: to be solved, the kind of off chain trust and
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: then how do you actually get on chain in the
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: first place in a relatively cost effective way. I think
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: that those problems probably get solved in the next kind
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: of cault twelve to eighteen months, and that's really where
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: things start to go more vertical. But it'll depend a
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: bit on how fast the legacy infrastructures will into it.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think you're right with the just the speed,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: but I don't know we're going to see. I mean
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: the I'm surprised right now the amount of traditional finance
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: companies that you know, we talk to, we interview on
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: how fast they're moving into this space. So I anticipate
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: once we get some clarity literally from Congress, that could
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: maybe accelerate that. I'm almost wondering if a lot of
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: people already have this stuff designed and built and it's
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: literally just waiting for a flip of an on switch
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: kind of situation.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: What do you think when I talk to a lot
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: of the you know, not using any names major banks
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: that you know all your viewers would know, We've talked
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: to many of them because many of them are interested
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: in playing Onsalana and you know, working with Jupiter in
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: some fashion. It seems as if they are still at
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: that kind of proof of concept stage where internally they've
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: got that trust and buy in, and from a technical perspective,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: they've understood the tech, they kind of know what the
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: architecture would look like. And so I have not seen
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: people yet willing to put all the chips on the table.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: But I think you're exactly right. Post clarity you remove
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of the taboo around actually investing heavily in
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: kind of domain. So right now you see Robin Hood
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: doing it, you see coin based doing it. You see
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: these companies that are maybe not crypto native, but crypto adjacent,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: they have the kind of belief to do it. Post
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: clarity is when I think any executive at any of
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: these financial institutions starts to really move the chips in
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: the center, and I think that is where things start
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: to get much faster. So clarity can't come soon enough,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: quite honest for sure.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Talking about banks, when you look at banks right now,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: do you think, especially with their fight for stable coin yield,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: do you think they'll try to ban jupe usd vaults.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: I would hope not. I would love to partner with
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: them and kind of build something better together. But I
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: can imagine that there will be some you know, reluctance
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: to get into these I do think. I think, ultimately,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: you know, Jupiter in particular, like we are not We
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: don't really play the regulatory game. We don't have like
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: a large lobbying presence in DC, and God bless the
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: teams that do. Very grateful that there are people fighting
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: that fight. Our approach has always been kind of demand driven, right, like,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: make products so good that users demand them, and that
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: users that organically want them, and that is kind of
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: how you fight back on that fight. Because I think
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: a lot of this is going to end up being
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: fought in the court of public opinion to some degree,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: and then downstream of that we'll see what the legislators
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: want to do. But I think that vaults are such
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: an exciting business model for a lot of these banks
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: or traditional asset allocators, that they'll have a tough time
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: fine tuning the kind of banning just to hurt players
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: like Jupe's. It's going to largely be, in my opinion,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: kind of like an all or nothing, and I think
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: it's going to trend towards the all category. I like it.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: What about Okay, So when you look at the Jupiter vaults,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: how would how are those I kind of see some
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: of the benefits, but I'm looking for that killer component.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: How are they better than other vaults that are out there,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: because there's a lot of people coming out with some
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: very unique products.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say the number one feature with any kind
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: of borrow lend protocol has to be its liquidation engine. Right.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: The liquidation engine is what allows you to do anything
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: you want to do. It dictates the LTVs, It dictates
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: the kind of collateral that you can accept, It dictates
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: how much leverage you can give people and so forth,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: and ours is quite literally one hundred x improvement. We
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: build this in partnership with the team from Fluid you
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: might know and that your viewers might know from the
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: EVM world one of the top teams building that you've
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: have for many years. So we have that same liquid
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: engine and that's what allows us to have LTVs up
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: to ninety four percent on major assets. And so one
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: of my favorite things to do is on Jukee Dog
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: slash Lend if you go to the multiply section, you
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: can see with liquid steak tokens like Juice Sol which
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: one of the largest LSTs that are out there, or
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: I andF, you can regularly get twenty to thirty percent
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: plus just on soul without any actual price liquidation risk,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: as I say as bringing up on the screen here,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: So that to me, that can multiply loop and that
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: additional amount of yield without the corresponding dramatic increase in
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: risk is what makes it so great, and the liquidation
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: engine is really at the core of that.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I think this is one of the best products that
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I've seen. There are a handful that do some different things,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: but I like the fact that you guys have such
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: flexibility and really a good set of assets available to
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: work within these Let's talk about the scenario that I
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: think is kind of the unusual question, and this is
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: the one around where you guys are and where hyper
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Liquid is. So if you look at Liquid, they have
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: kind of I would say they've won somewhat at least
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: to this stage with perps. Do you feel like this
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: can change for you guys. I'm looking at the list
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: right now in coin market Cap. I'll bring that up
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: and there you've got it. There's hype and then of course,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: you know, not too far behind you guys are coming in.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: But what do you think you would have to do
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: to kind of win this battle right now?
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Our keep? Well, first, let me just say, like you know,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: game recognized game, Hyperliquid has performed and executed extremely well,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: but it is the nature of crypto that, you know,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: the landscape changes basically every few months. You know. My
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Twitter profile picture is like all palaces are temporary palaces,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: and that's true for Jupiter, the true for every project
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: that is out there. Right. So, they've done exceptionally well.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Hip three and many these things are incredibly exciting, but
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: I do think that there is still an opportunity, and
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: the opportunity kind of is on twofold, right, So first
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: is at a core tech layer. I think that there
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: is a segment of traders that are interested in more decentralized,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: incredibly neutral platform that we love to kind of work with,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: and there are some fun surprises in terms of like
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: the literal way that the order books actually work for us.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: We are going to be launching a new product called
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: jupnet in the relatively near future. We talked about this
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: at our community conference a few weeks ago, and that
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: is where we think we're going to be able to
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: have kind of better than hyper liquid performance for spot
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: and purpose and an order book based flow, and I
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: think that's going to kind of shake up the scene
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: a little bit. I can't say too much about it
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: because that'll.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Be a good one. From what I heard when we
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: covered that, it was intriguing. So I'm curious as to
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: what that's going to look like for sure. What about
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: the scenario do you think right now that the market
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: cares more around revenue or TVL What do you think
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: is the correlation here?
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: I think that revenue, of course, it depends on the
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: type of product, but like as a first pass, I
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: think that revenue is a better indicator, and I think
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: the market is starting to wake up to that. Companies
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: that are actually able to charge fees and then have
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: their users stick around. It's not rare, right, A lot
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: of this usage it's almost painful to say, but like
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of the usage in this industry is fake, right,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: It's very inorganic. It's incentivized airdrop farmers, et cetera. And
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: I think that makes it hard to know who's really
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: doing the thing and who's just kind of play acting
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: at building a business. And so it's been fun to
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: see revenue come in more to focus for a lot
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: of folks. TVL also matters. I think TVL matters as
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: a sign of trust, right, like what kind of level
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: of assets are people willing to put into your protocols?
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: You know, we're number one on Salona by TVL right now,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: we're not number one by revenue, but would like to
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: get that pretty soon, you know.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking at the TVL and fees on Jupe
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: right now trending up. So maybe to your point, I
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: think that's those are good indicators definitely going forward. Yeah,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: talk to me a little bit about the most recent
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: vote on zero emissions, because I understand a little bit
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: of it, but I would love to learn more about this.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Why do you feel that this was responsible for Jupe's
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: performance over the last little bit.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, it is no secret the Jupe
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: token has not performed where we would like. Now, we're
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: mostly in line with how most kind of defied project
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: tokens have performed, so it's not unique to us. But
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: you know, we're not going to sell for just doing
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: what everyone else is doing, right. We want to be
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: outperformed at all times. And one thing that we heard
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: kind of in constant communication with our token holders was
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: this kind of concern around emissions. Now, Jupiter's token came
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: out I think two or three years ago at this point,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: and like most tokens have been out for a few years,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: after that first year cliff is up, we started to
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: have those emissions come in. What the market broadly precedes
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: is sell pressure, quite honestly, And Jupiter has the benefit
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: of not having had any venture capital investment, so we
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: don't have investors we have to go like check with
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: about this kind of stuff. So we instead brought a
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: proposal to the DOO the Tao, which is one of
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: the few where we have like real meaningful, high leverage votes,
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: and the two options are basically like, hey, we can
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: continue with everything as it is. Team continues to vest
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: as normally. There's a small group of stakeholders called Mercurial stakeholders,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: which is the previous project that jup spun out of.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: They keep getting their tokens on pace and we do
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: the jupiwary air drop as well. But either do you
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: have planned the status quote or we can enter kind
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: of a brave new world and set a broad, broadly
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: new narrative for Jupe as a token, which is net
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: zero emissions. Right, Jupiter goes green in the kind of
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: you know, environmental sense, right, and that would mean no
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: air drop, So we would preserve the snapshot return that
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: to the Dow team vesting. There's some intricacies to how
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: it works, but basically the team reserves will not emit
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: tokens any longer, and then we buy out all of
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: the mercurials takeholders and kind of negate any of the
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: potential seal pressure from them. And so where you end
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: up as this position where there's net zero new emissions
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: coming to market for the foreseeable future. It was a
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: contentious vote. I don't know, like if you're into Dow politics,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: it is not for the faint of heart, I would say,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: but it ended up passing with a dramatic supermajority about
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: seventy five percent. Yea four hundred and eighty million votes
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: cast and stuff, So very good participation, very good feedback,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: and broad buy in. Obviously some people were not as
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: excited about the outcome, but I think that this really
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: makes puts Jupiter in a unique position of being a
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: mature product. You know, we did almost two hundred million
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: dollars last year in revenue, so very strong business number
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: one by TVL, by volume, by all these other metrics
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: on Salana, and now a very clean tokenomics profile for
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: the foreseeable future. And so I'm very excited about the
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: ways in which that can kind of inspire the market,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: especially given we have a fifty percent buyback program and
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: there's this direct correlation between the business and the token.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I know, value acool as always the talk of the day,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: so I think this is kind of like a phase
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: shift in how people should think about joop as a
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: token going forward.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: It's a I think it's a good move, And of course,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: I think the advantage that you guys have done is
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: you've accelerated a lot of the needs that most of
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: the community seems to really want to do, so kudos
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: to you guys. Let's talk a little bit about tokenomics.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: I'm looking here at DeFi Lama. You can kind of
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: see tokenonomics coming through here in comparison to say something
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: like hype. Hype has a big unlocked I think you know,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: right there there's a good example. Do you feel, well,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: First of all, how do you think you compare to others? Now,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: where are jubs tokenomics?
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: I would say without naming any specifics, And I'll say
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know too much about like hypes, specific toconomics
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: or many other projects, but broadly, I think what's attractive
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: about Jupiter is that one it is well circulating already,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: where at about fifty percent circulating supply, which is quite good.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: It's not one of those you know, ten percent low
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: float tokens that is going to get obliterated by emissions
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: over time. Okay, So I think that there is a
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: even of the fifty percent remaining supply, especially after this vote,
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: it's not going to be hitting the market anytime soon, right,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: So you have some kind of degree of stability and
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: predictability where investors do not have to continuously kind of
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: monitor what when is the supply shot coming, When is
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: more what are more tokens being released? Et cetera. Right,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: and three, I think what we have is like a
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: token that has some real like meaning behind it. You know,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: as I say, we're one of the biggest businesses on
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Solana and you know, a top ten or twenty business
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: in all of crypto, and have a token where it's
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: not a promise someday that there's gonna be buybacks, right
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: like that's happening today right now. There is no equity
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: vehicle at Jupiter right. All the value concentrates in the token,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: and I think that makes it a lot easier for
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: people to get in favor of And the voting is
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: a bonus. We have some supply sinks where tokens get
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: burned across the product suite. That's a bonus. But you know,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: the cake itself I think is quite quite sweet. At
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: this point, it.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Seems like you guys are firing on all cylinders. I mean,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: new products coming to market. Obviously there's demand for this.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: We could see regulatory alignment that really starts to open
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: this up and DeFi and then of course just the
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: adoption curve that will happen, happen, I think with the
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: rest of the planet in terms of how crypto is
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: going to evolve, So there's a lot of opportunity here.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I wanted to go over to our lightning round with
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: you Cash, which is kind of our questions that we
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: drop in on as many founders and key people as
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: we can. But I want to start off with this
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: first one. Top dex tokens, we'll make an epic comeback
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six. Do you think that will happen
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: this year or no?
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: How fast is this slanning round? Am I allowed to
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: give a few sentences or is it just.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: A couple of sentences because we got like eight or not?
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I think I will say that some dex tokens will
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: make an epic comeback into six. It is those that
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: adjust to the new reality, especially on prop amms and
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: which tokens they're serving.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: I'm going to vote no on this one. Institutional trading
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: chains will fail if they don't connect to Solana or Ethereum.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: What do you think I.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Think that's a that's a yes. I'm not a not
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: a big fan of the corporate chains at all. I
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: think corporalsy Corslop. Yeah, they get sick to their PR releases.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: That's it. Yes, the new wire you.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: On that one, hey, in twenty twenty six, crypto companies
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: are better off launching a token on Jupe than going public.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: What do you think? I mean? The honest truth is
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: it depends on what you need. If you need really
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: deep markets, the truth is Jupe is not as deep
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: as the nastak right now. We hope together someday on chain,
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: but say for most companies, if you have the opportunity,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: then nazac is probably to be pretty good. It's more
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: fun to be on Jupe, I will say, for a
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: bunch of different reasons. But yeah, yeah, I'm kind of waffling.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I'm in the middle. It's hard for me to say.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I'm going to put you in the middle. I'm gonna
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: put you in the middle. I'm gonna say no, I
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: still think the old guard is going to win the uh,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: the route for public, at least for public. But to
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: your point, for if you're just raising capital, because that
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: that's a different kind of company that they're not looking
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: to go public. You know, they're looking at you know,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: capital rounds, which are that should have been a better question.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I think we should have done that a little different.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Your friends are more likely to onboard via a dex
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: app than Coinbase.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: What do you think is an easy I know because
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I've done it to my friends.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody's gone, Yeah, dex is the way to go,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: you guys know. And for you guys that are brand
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: new watching our show right now, and you're like, wait
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: a minute, Palm, we use coinbase and all these centralizings change.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Those are fine, There's nothing wrong with them. It's just
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: as you graduate and understand the real use case, DEXes
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: will be your home. You'll just you'll figure that out eventually.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: This is a this is a process that you're going through.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Encryptle write a passage.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Absolutely Jupe will out for in Hype in twenty twenty six.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: What do you think?
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: I would sure hope? So yes, uh, you know, the market.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: All defense on this one. Cash I'm on the fence.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Hype is jerking on what we have.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: I think is that we are deeply undervalued by the market.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: I would agree.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: I would agree.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: So that's where I think we might have a real shot.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know that will be bigger than Hype this year,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: but I do think outperforming from a you take a
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: snapshot of today through the.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: End of the year.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: I think we have a good shot at it.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: We guys got to you got to come on shows
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: like Hours more often.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: We get you exposure.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: People start to learn what this is about.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: That's the key.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: That's the fact, that's the fact. I'll be back anytime.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: You'll have people, I'll tell you that perfect.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: All right, Jupiter goes multi chain in twenty twenty six
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: x RPL avax.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: We what do you think, Well, so jube net is
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: going to be a product that serves as an omnichain
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: liquidity hub. But you're not going to see but are
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: on avax or Jupiter on SUEY or Jupiter on XRPL.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: So again, I'm kind in the middle on that one.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: You'll be able to use Jupiter to trade those assets
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: and assets on those chains, but you're not going to
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: find us on those chains.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Directly, gotcha, Okay, all right, I'll stack with you there.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: All right, man, let's go here. Because Jupiter integrates into
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: robin Hood chain, into Robinhood chain.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Again, I think we'll there's a good conversation to be
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: had for jupe net to integrate Robinhood chain, so we
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: cannot trade those assets. We robin Hood is powered by
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Jupiter right now for so trading the Web three app
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I would say that that's probably closer to it. Yes,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think we finalize that just yet, but optimistic
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: I would.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Say, I think you guys are going to do it,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: so it's going to happen. AI agents will prefer to
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: use Jupiter for swaps. This is where it gets a
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: little dicey.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: I think the answer is today definitely, and then tomorrow hopefully. Right,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: they'll use the Jupiter buyinarya I should say, which is
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: like a hyprocans all right, Yeah, I think the Jupiter
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: is just the best way to get the best prices
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: for every single token that exists, and the agents will
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: know it better than anyone else.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I'm still I need to see it, so I'm kind
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: of in the middle there as well for me to
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: see it, and my guys are always my research team
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: is always trying to get me to understand that agents
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: will use and go this route, but I'm still skeptical.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I have to see it actually, get it.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: To scale, because once it goes to scale, then you're
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: going to see most of the agents kind of find
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: their way to the best product out there, which maybe
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: to your point, would be the case token is, is
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Pokemon TCG trading now volume will flip meme coins?
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: What do you think I don't think so. I think
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: it's hard to envision. Yeah, I'm gonna say no. I
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: think that like meme points have going for this, there's
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: costantly a new stream of them, right, so there's like
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: constantly new attention coming in their attention markets. Yeah.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I like the idea of Pokemon. Well, you know, these
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: really high collectible products that are unique to a certain culture.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I mean I I you know, we had Kevin O'Leary
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: was talking about this just the other day, is that
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: they wanted to create basically a fund around Pokemon, you know,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: for obvious reasons. With the most recent sale by Logan,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Logan was you know, that was an insane amount, so
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I could see that. I mean, now you're getting into art,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: you know. Really at a certain scale, a lot of
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: these guys will go that direction. Grand Theft Audio or
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Grand Theft Auto token would get more trading volume on
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Jupe than any other.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Sector g t A, g t A. I mean, it
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: depends on if they have their own in built dexpool.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: But I'll say I'll say yes, I'll better ourselves.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Right, I think that will I'm going show me.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: That's what I think. You see. You see things like
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: you know, we helped on the Arslana kind of onboard,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: like monad on day one on SLAT. At the same time,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: changes blimes are higher on chain, you know, so I
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: think that it is possible for some assets, but this one,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I we'll need to see a little bit more if
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I can put some real money on it.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, listen, we get if and we anticipate.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: We've had many videos on there. We have yachtsu on
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: here many times talking about GTA six and just the
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: evolution of what it's going to look like for you know,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: token use in a GTA, which I think will happen.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: I think we're gonna see in game token use in
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: a lot of these games coming up, and it may
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: be faster now, especially as we start to see a
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: little bit more regulatory alignment happening for sure. One last
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: thing to you, cash when you look at this year
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: and clarity going through, let's assume it does happen, do
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: you think this market would bottom at that point when
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: clarity goes through, or do you feel like there's still
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: some bear market left in this year.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: I do think that'll be close to the bottom for sure.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, even if I look at the recent market trends,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of it I think is still after shocks
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: from ten ten and some firms kind of blowing up
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: over there, and then obviously the gold and silver trade
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: kind of blowing up, the kerry trade changing and so on.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: So I think that a lot of the leverage has
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: been wiped from this time. There's just not a lot
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: of it left. You see this inn open interest metrics
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: as well, and I think that's quite bliss if you
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: have one very strong catalyst that's able to bring some
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: attention back on chain and make this feel comfortable for
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: the large trillion dollar pools of liquidity to come on
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: chain as well. I do think you start to see
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: things go up into the right.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I'm still slightly skeptical. Skeptical about that, mainly because I
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: feel like a lot of people, first of all, it's
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: inside baseball right now for the most part, you know,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: when it comes to clarity, because people don't really know
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: what this means yet to trad FI. I think the
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: key will be when a major trad FI uses the
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: tool that was set forth and then CNBC or squawk
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Box or someone highlights it, and then the rest of
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: the trad FI and all the money managers realize, oh,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: we're here. You know. Now is the time that I
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: think will be the time in which the eyes are
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: opened on this asset class for sure cashed on to
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: coming in from Jupiter today. Thanks so much for coming
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: in and we appreciate it.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of fun, Paul, Thanks so much. Good friendship.
• 31:08
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• 31:11
  Speaker 1: a comment down below, and also join our free private
• 31:14
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