Latest / The Joe Rogan Recap / Oliver Anthony (2025) - Culture, Commerce and Combat

Transcript

Oliver Anthony (2025) - Culture, Commerce and Combat · The Joe Rogan Recap

0:00
Welcome to the Joe Rogan recap, and before we get going, you can
0:03
now access the full Google Notebook with a mind map,
0:06
timeline and briefing document by clicking the link in the
0:09
description. Our source material today is the
0:12
transcript from a recent conversation between Joe Rogan
0:15
and Oliver Anthony. Yeah, quite a conversation.
0:17
And our mission here really is to cut through, you know, the
0:20
hours of tape We want to unpack, the key insights, those moments
0:24
that maybe surprise people and the bigger things that came up.
0:27
Exactly, giving you a shortcut to what really mattered in the
0:30
in that discussion. Think of it like the highlights
0:31
reel, but with a bit more depth. We're looking at everything from
0:36
Oliver Anthony's pretty unique ride with fame and the music
0:40
business. All the way through to those
0:42
broader chats they had about society, media, politics, and
0:46
yeah, even dipping into MMA like they often do.
0:49
So let's get into it. OK, so one of the first things,
0:53
maybe the most obvious, is Anthony being back on the show
0:55
so soon. Right.
0:57
He even said he thought it'd be years, if ever.
1:00
Definitely wasn't expecting to be back that quickly.
1:02
And that kind of surprise, it really frames the whole
1:05
conversation about how fast everything happened for him
1:07
initially. They went right back to the
1:09
start, didn't they? The Richmond North of Richmond
1:11
origin story. Adam Curry gets the song, shares
1:14
it with Joe and that reaction in the green room.
1:17
Yeah, the quote was just, oh, shit, Like an immediate gut
1:21
feeling that this was something different, something big.
1:23
Totally captures it and they really dug into how it was
1:26
recorded, which I found interesting.
1:28
Not some polished studio thing, no.
1:29
Not at all. It was like recorded live in a
1:33
house in West Virginia with musicians like Billy Contras.
1:38
Very intentionally raw. Yeah, they mentioned no click
1:41
tracks, hardly any editing, just trying to get that classic sort
1:45
of live authentic sound. Which you know in today's music
1:48
world that's a statement in itself.
1:49
It really double S down on that rawness people seem to connect
1:52
with. It feels well fundamental to who
1:55
he. Is and you saw that connection
1:57
translate almost instantly into massive success.
1:59
He sounded frankly stunned talking about that first big
2:02
check the. $800,000 one Yeah. And his first instinct kind of
2:07
telling was put it all in a nonprofit.
2:09
But Rogan jumped in there, didn't he?
2:11
Based on his own, let's say less than stellar experiences.
2:14
Right. He strongly advised against it.
2:17
Basically said, look, keep the money for now.
2:19
Figure out how you want to do good with it directly.
2:21
Stay in control. He seemed wary of the
2:24
bureaucracy. Maybe potential misuse he's seen
2:26
before. Seems Anthony listened, he
2:29
mentioned he's recorded what, 6 new songs since Scornful Woman
2:32
and he sounds pretty happy with them.
2:34
Plans to release them. Yeah, he's still creating.
2:36
And he also seemed genuinely surprised the initial wave
2:38
didn't just crash. You know, the whole 15 minutes
2:41
of fame idea. He thought it might be
2:43
temporary, yeah, but the streams kept coming.
2:46
The shows were selling out. It's like the momentum kept
2:48
going, almost catching him off guard again.
2:50
And that whole experience, managing that sudden fame while
2:54
trying to stay well himself, that leads right into a really
2:58
central theme of the whole episode, doesn't it?
3:00
Absolutely authenticity. Trying to be real in a world
3:03
that often feels, you know, pretty manufactured.
3:06
Rogan was hammering that point home, calling Anthony a real
3:10
working man, saying you can't fake that.
3:13
He got specific to the trucker hat, the jeans ripped from work,
3:17
not fashionably ripped, the real oil stains.
3:20
His argument was basically people are desperate for that.
3:23
They can spot the fake stuff. But it wasn't just about being
3:26
authentic, it was the struggle of handling it in the public
3:28
eye. Anthony was open about how
3:31
uncomfortable he is with attention sometimes.
3:33
Yeah, that feeling of hey, look at me.
3:35
He wants to avoid that said, he fights the urge to post online,
3:39
even goes dark sometimes. And Rogan, you know, having been
3:42
in that spotlight for so long, he really seemed to get that,
3:45
that balancing act between having a public profile and
3:49
keeping some sense of yourself, some privacy.
3:51
This whole tension, authenticity versus the machine, it really
3:54
comes to a head when they talk about the music industry itself.
3:57
His strategy seems very deliberate.
3:59
Super deliberate. Keep the team small, just Draven
4:02
from radio WV, maybe a couple others, actively avoiding the
4:06
usual managers, publicists and the whole apparatus.
4:10
It's like a conscious rejection of the standard playbook, and
4:14
Rogan was all for it, basically saying a lot of those industry
4:17
jobs are just gatekeepers, maybe even harmful to an artist's
4:20
independence. And then they hit that specific
4:23
example that really illustrates the friction, the whole thing
4:27
with the scornful woman reaction videos.
4:29
Right. OK.
4:30
So Anthony owns 100% of his publishing.
4:32
The songwriting right, which is huge, gives him control, but you
4:36
still need an administrator to collect royalties globally.
4:40
In his case, Warner Chapel, they take their cut 9% standard
4:43
enough, but Anthony wanted to use his ownership to help the
4:47
people who boosted him early on. So he asks Warner Chapel, can we
4:50
whitelist like 30 or 40 people, The ones who made those early
4:54
reaction videos for Richmond? Let them keep the money from
4:57
reacting to scornful woman. A way to give back, right?
5:00
Share the success with the community that helped build it.
5:03
But Warner Chappell's response was basically, no, we can't do
5:06
that. It's for your protection, which
5:08
sounds protective. Maybe, But the implication was
5:11
clear. They wanted their 9% cut from
5:13
those potential reaction videos. Yeah.
5:15
And Anthony ended up spending, what, 4 grand on a lawyer just
5:19
to get those specific people whitelisted for only 30 days?
5:23
It's a perfect little story, isn't it?
5:24
Shows the industry's focus on control on the bottom line.
5:28
Maybe not really caring about the organic community stuff.
5:30
And Anthony's reaction to that friction releasing scornful
5:33
woman through sound on. Tik Tok's distribution platform
5:36
yeah, it gave him more flexibility, let him sidestep
5:39
some traditional gates still keeps 100% of his rights.
5:42
Master's in publishing. It's him using the new tools
5:45
available. It really highlights that clash,
5:47
doesn't it, between the old industry model and how music can
5:50
just explode organically now. Totally, And his success, like
5:55
Richmond hitting number one against songs with huge
5:58
marketing budgets, It's like a reminder that people together
6:01
still have power to lift something up, even if it's just
6:04
for a moment. The machine isn't unbeatable.
6:07
That whole navigating systems thing, finding your identity, it
6:10
felt like a Natural Bridge to where the conversation went
6:12
next, looking at society and politics more broadly.
6:18
Yeah, they were trying to make sense of the, you know, the
6:20
general feeling of confusion out there.
6:22
One point was about politics becoming this easy identity
6:25
marker for people. Like if you're feeling lost or
6:28
disconnected, latching onto a political tribe gives you that
6:31
sense of belonging. Almost like being a die hard
6:34
sports fan. Exactly like that, that tribal
6:36
we won feeling. Even if you're just watching.
6:39
It fulfills a need apparently. They also brought up the private
6:43
prison system. The critique presented was that
6:47
it essentially turns people into a business commodity.
6:50
Right. Creating this incentive to keep
6:51
the system fed, maybe even leading to harsher laws to
6:54
ensure a steady supply of customers seeing it purely
6:57
through a profit lens. And they touched briefly and
7:00
partially on the Harvard admissions lawsuits.
7:03
The argument being discussed was whether focusing on non academic
7:07
factors made it harder for Asian applicants, potentially as a way
7:10
to manage outcomes for high achievers.
7:13
They noted the broadness of the term Asian in that context.
7:16
And then there was the whole issue of manipulation,
7:18
disinformation, the idea that fake stories get spread around,
7:22
sometimes specifically to undermine people who question
7:26
things or look into conspiracies.
7:28
Yeah, which led to them stressing how important it is to
7:30
try and verify stuff. They mentioned Jamie's role on
7:34
Rogan show that real time fact checking aspect.
7:37
They also got into organized protests.
7:39
The anger you see mentioned, claims of coordination, paying
7:43
people, pallets of bricks, bussing people in.
7:45
And argued that stuff like burning cop cars probably not
7:49
the most productive way to make your point.
7:51
It undermines the cause. Yeah, and they pointed out the
7:53
sort of confusion you sometimes see.
7:55
The example given was someone protesting in the US, burning
7:58
things, wearing a mask but holding a Mexican flag.
8:01
Like, who or what is the actual target here?
8:04
It's just maybe the anger is there, but the focus isn't
8:07
always clear. Which led into that zebra
8:09
mentality idea referencing Jordan Peterson.
8:12
Right from maps of meaning, the idea that people, especially in
8:15
politics, will kind of adjust their views, change their
8:18
stripes to fit in with their group, for safety, for identity.
8:22
They used Hillary Clinton's past border stance as an example,
8:25
suggesting it might have been shaped by focus groups even
8:28
describing it as MAGA then MAGA at the time, implying it was
8:32
about reflecting perceived voter sentiment.
8:34
You could feel the sense from them that people feel like
8:37
they're being played against each other.
8:38
They sort of speculated the groups that seemed totally
8:41
opposed, like maybe patriotic cosplayers and Antifa.
8:45
Might actually share some deep underlying anger about a system
8:49
they both feel is right, even if they express it in completely
8:53
opposite, often hostile ways. Exactly.
8:55
And the thought was maybe that shared rebellious energy needs
8:58
to be recognized somehow, channeled differently.
9:00
They even floated music as a potential bridge, something that
9:03
can cut across those divides. Interesting idea.
9:05
And then another shift. They went from society and
9:08
politics to science, health, nature, starting with dog food
9:13
of all things. Yeah, typical JRE flow.
9:15
It made sense. Rogan talked about switching his
9:18
dog Marshall to real food, like Farmer's Dog or Maeve, and
9:21
seeing huge health improvements. Better coat, better weight.
9:25
Yeah, it was an analogy for us, right?
9:27
Processed stuff with a long shelf life might keep you going,
9:30
but real whole food is what helps you thrive.
9:33
And that's spun into modern chickens.
9:35
Comparing pictures from 1957 to 1978, the size difference is
9:40
wild. It really is.
9:41
They linked it to genetics. Mentioned a specific gene study
9:44
from 2010 about growth but also maybe diet.
9:47
Just shows how much we've changed our food sources.
9:50
That visual of the 1978 chicken looking like a soccer ball.
9:54
And they even threw in that bit of history about the Pope
9:57
banning 4 legged meat on fast days like 1000 years ago.
10:01
Right. Inadvertently pushing people
10:02
towards chicken and fish for centuries, setting the stage for
10:05
breeding bigger birds later on. There was also that quick aside
10:08
about the Catholic Church's celibacy rule, just sort of
10:11
highlighting how old rules can have long lasting effects.
10:14
But circling back to health, they talked about the current
10:16
health crisis, mentioning Robert Kennedy Junior's campaign focus.
10:20
Yeah, his emphasis on toxins, pharmaceutical companies, the
10:24
vaccine schedule they mentioned. Robert Malone described him as
10:27
an mRNA patent owner who's been called names, but as someone
10:31
qualified who was apparently involved in administration
10:34
health discussions. And Anthony seemed really drawn
10:36
to RFK Junior's idea of a healing center inspired by a
10:40
trip to Italy. Places where people reconnect
10:42
with nature. Learn to grow food.
10:44
Totally Anthony's own plan to buy land and create a space for
10:48
people to unscrew their minds, get back to nature.
10:51
It fits right in. The core idea there seems to be
10:54
nature as this constant ordered system, something real and
10:58
grounding, providing a necessary contrast to all the modern man
11:02
made chaos crucial for mental health, they argued.
11:05
And from the natural world, they jumped right into the digital
11:07
One AI. Yeah, talking about data
11:10
siphoning, the phrase used was AI, sucking all the humanity out
11:13
of us by learning from everything we do online.
11:16
The idea that our interactions feed it make it smarter, but
11:19
maybe we lose something in the process, externalizing our own
11:22
thinking or creativity. Especially when it came to
11:24
music, both of them seemed pretty skeptical that AI could
11:28
really replicate true human creativity there.
11:31
For sure, they acknowledged AI can make technically good stuff,
11:34
catchy stuff. The Drake AI song came up.
11:37
But that raw lived experience, the vulnerability they felt, AI
11:42
just can't get there. And they used Scornful woman as
11:45
the counterexample. Written super fast, like 2-3
11:48
minutes around a kitchen table. Just Anthony Draven, Joey
11:54
pouring out shared feelings about difficult relationships.
11:57
That spontaneous shared human moment, That's what they argued
12:01
AI misses. You could hear it in that clip
12:03
you played earlier, right? That raw edge.
12:04
Definitely, and they also pointed to live performance as
12:07
something inherently human, that energy exchange that AI can't
12:10
replicate. And interestingly, Anthony's
12:12
long term goal isn't just about his own success.
12:15
He talked about wanting to help other artists navigate the
12:17
industry, maybe even bypass the predatory.
12:20
Parts yeah, potentially starting a non predatory label or
12:23
festival. Talented people with small
12:25
followings and giving them a platform mentorship.
12:27
It's framed as bigger than himself.
12:30
He literally said he wants to see the traditional machine
12:33
crumble not just by his success, but by empowering lots of others
12:37
to succeed independently too. Like a ripple effect.
12:39
He sees his own breakthrough as kind of a collective win, a
12:42
middle finger to the old way, showing what artists and fans
12:45
can do together. Yeah, leveraging that moment,
12:47
that energy to try and shift things more broadly by
12:50
decentralizing the power and. Then boom, the MMA conversation.
12:54
Classic JRE pivot but you know it's still connected.
12:57
It was another way to look at human drive limits pressure.
13:01
They profiled some fighters. Mirab Devalishvili.
13:04
His cardio sounds absolutely insane.
13:06
Experts apparently can't explain it.
13:08
Maybe genetic, but also just relentless drive.
13:10
Yeah, his fight against Somali was mentioned, then Ilya Tapuria
13:14
knocking out top guys like Volkanovsky, Holloway seemingly
13:18
with ease. Perfect technique.
13:20
Huge. Confidence and Alex Pereira,
13:22
that quick rise after being a kickboxing legend.
13:24
The touch of death, becoming a two division UFC champ so fast,
13:28
dealing with injuries, learning grappling defense with Glover T
13:31
Sara. Remarkable story.
13:33
But they didn't just focus on the glory, they talked about the
13:35
toll, physical, mental, how hard he is for fighter to transition
13:40
out when their whole identity is wrapped up in.
13:42
It pointing to guys like GSP as a healthier model still training
13:46
intensely but not taking fight damage.
13:48
Or Sean Strickland being smart about planning for retirement
13:52
doing seminars. And that anecdote about GS PS
13:55
coach Fiero Sahabi paying sparring partners to actually
13:58
try and knock George out? Sounds brutal, but the point was
14:01
realism, wasn't it? You have to train for the real
14:04
danger to be truly prepared. Exactly.
14:07
They described high level fighting as almost choreographed
14:10
but in real time. Muscle memory prediction.
14:13
Incredible skill and you have to appreciate the work that goes
14:16
into reaching that level. Rogan tied it back to something
14:18
primal, didn't he? The monkey part of our brain
14:21
fighting is just raw. Everyone gets it on some level,
14:24
unlike, say, cricket. Yeah, even mention things like
14:27
chicken and dogfight or horrible stuff, obviously, but as
14:30
related, maybe darker expressions of that same basic
14:33
human instinct, like the Colosseum, but modern.
14:36
And then they sort of looped back to where they started in a
14:39
way. Managing attention, fame.
14:42
Whether you're a musician or a fighter, that constant stream of
14:45
messages, people recognizing you, even friends acting weird
14:49
about your success. It's a challenge trying to
14:51
handle it without becoming a puppet, as they put it, or
14:54
someone just chasing validation. It seemed like a struggle both
14:57
Rogan and Anthony understood deeply.
14:59
So stepping back from all that, quite a journey through one
15:03
conversation, what are the big takeaways?
15:05
Well, I think that core tension is huge, genuine human
15:08
experience versus these big, complex, sometimes artificial
15:12
systems we navigate, whether it's music, politics, media.
15:15
Yeah, and Anthony's story becomes the sort of modern
15:18
fable, right? Choosing authenticity,
15:20
independence, using new tools to push back against the old ways.
15:24
Absolutely, and it really highlights this deep craving
15:26
people seem to have for something real.
15:29
You see it in the reaction to his music that turned towards
15:31
nature, the search for identity, even the raw appeal of combat
15:35
sports. It touches on so much individual
15:37
versus group, grassroots power, the weirdness of fame.
15:40
Definitely. So maybe a final thought for
15:42
you, the listener to chew on to talk about this potential
15:45
window, this chance for people to use their collective power
15:48
against established systems. So thinking about that in your
15:51
own world, how can you maybe support genuine expression or
15:55
push back against the fake stuff, or even just find those
15:58
real connections, nature, community, creativity that help
16:01
you stay grounded in all this modern chaos?
16:04
Something to think about. Thanks for joining us on this
16:06
deep dive.