Latest / Nick the Rat Radio / John S Dvorak Interview

Transcript

John S Dvorak Interview · Nick the Rat Radio

0:00
I conceived your brain and I know that it is adaptable and able to carry out your instructions.
0:07
You do not know me.
0:10
That may be so, but you will not be asked to make judgments of value.
0:15
Be that to us. Answer the questions precisely and accurately. Answer.
0:21
Hello everybody. Welcome to Nick the Rat Radio episode.
0:28
I don't even know. I think it's like 5.50 something or something or other year.
0:33
Where the hell am I? What planet am I on here? Hold on a second.
0:38
Yeah, this is how we do. 5.62. Look at that.
0:42
It is Wednesday, October 21st, 2026.
0:45
And tonight we have special guest, JC.
0:50
John Estivorek.
0:53
Hi, I'm John Estivorek.
0:55
Were you just striking a pose?
0:57
Trying to figure out the frame?
0:59
I was trying to feel the box. The box television.
1:02
You're stuck in the box, my friend.
1:06
For those that do not know, JC is a huge AI geek.
1:12
Yes.
1:14
And then among other things, also cohost of the Dvorak Horowitz show,
1:21
which I have inherited.
1:23
That's true. Thanks for the shout out.
1:25
I listened to the last episode today and I heard you were like,
1:27
I'm going to be on Nick the Rat Radio.
1:29
Yeah, of course. It's all about cross promotion.
1:32
When are you tearing down my website?
1:35
I'm tearing it down because I'm going to build a beautiful high rise.
1:39
It'll be a beautiful Dvorak tower.
1:41
It'll be bigger, bigger than everything, bigger than all things.
1:45
No, that's going to be, we're doing video first.
1:48
And so we're going to start having shorts on the page.
1:51
And we're also going to make it so that it's a lot easier for people to donate
1:55
and have subscriptions and track what they're paying and giving in
2:01
as well as all the stock advice that we're doing.
2:04
And a number of other cool new games that I would be done with by now
2:08
if I have not been had not been sick for the past few weeks.
2:11
Sickness will do that.
2:12
How many guys don't upload the whole video?
2:14
Is there a reason behind that?
2:16
Well, it isn't very good.
2:20
It's better right now as clips.
2:22
We're probably may do a live feed and then we're going to do clips,
2:25
but the whole video itself is not, it's not up to par.
2:29
It's not up to standard.
2:30
We're not going to be giving out the whole feed because we're picking our noses.
2:34
We're, we're, we're not wearing shirts.
2:36
It's wild.
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It's wild on D.H.U.
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And so we don't want to have that be spread.
2:40
Oh man, I've been, I've been listening to that show forever too.
2:43
I love Horowitz and I love all that stuff.
2:46
Let's see.
2:47
I got a whole bunch of questions for you, my friend.
2:50
All right, let's do it.
2:52
I'm going to start off very easy, very, very easy.
2:57
Okay.
2:58
What's your favorite?
2:59
Do you have a, do you listen to podcasts?
3:01
You know what?
3:02
I, I did.
3:03
There was a podcast called No Agenda.
3:05
No, I don't listen to those many podcasts, honestly.
3:09
I was kind of an im-im-im fan like a decade ago and mostly I have an issue.
3:17
I can't work while listening to people talk.
3:19
So I'm unable to fit it into my life like a lot of people can.
3:22
A lot of people can listen and it feels like there's some people around them.
3:24
It feels nice.
3:25
They're part of a group.
3:26
For me, I can't have an even music playing.
3:29
Otherwise I lose my whole train of thought.
3:31
And so it's absolute silence required for me to be able to be mentally capable because
3:36
I've just a little too much ADD.
3:39
Did you actually listen to No Agenda at all?
3:43
Yeah.
3:44
So I was back of the house doing the spreadsheets for, I think, episodes like somewhere around
3:51
600 to, I would say 1100.
3:54
And then I, we also had these family dinners every Friday.
3:59
And I miss a lot.
4:00
And we did these family dinners every Friday.
4:02
And we would basically discuss the show as part of the dinner conversation as well as
4:06
doing bits.
4:07
We would do takes and crazy views of how the news is happening and basically work as an
4:13
informal writing room.
4:14
And so No Agenda was sort of always, I would listen sometimes to see how what my wacky idea
4:22
was and how he would turn it into something else or either botch it or completely turn
4:28
left and just do a completely different take on the exact same thing we were discussing.
4:32
And so I had to listen sometimes just to be like, well, okay, so how did he actually,
4:36
I thought I explained it, but maybe not.
4:40
Let's see here.
4:41
Music, well, you don't listen to music while you do work either.
4:44
Did you have like a...
4:45
So I do, I do listen to music.
4:47
Let me just open up my Spotify.
4:49
And I can tell you what I listen to.
4:50
But for that, that's, I don't do as much anymore.
4:53
So I professionally a coder.
4:56
And so I used to program.
4:57
That's harder to do these days and meet deadlines.
5:01
And back then when I was doing like debugging work where I was just mostly like massaging
5:04
the code and like getting my fingers in there and getting them all rubbed up and getting
5:08
all the syntax right.
5:10
When that was happening, I would listen to music because I needed something to keep my
5:12
rhythm going because it was kind of, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't solving problems.
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I was just massaging and fixing things.
5:19
And so then, so let me look at my random liked music while it slowly loads.
5:25
It's completely garbage right now because I use this for my son.
5:28
And so it's just like, oh yeah, Perry grip.
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And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
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All right.
5:33
So here's just some random stuff.
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We got, we got Jingle Cats.
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No, again, not that.
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Jukebox the ghost.
5:41
Small fools, electric guests.
5:44
I love electric guests.
5:46
Great artist.
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Perry and Kingsley.
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Linda X.
5:52
Oh, Montaigne.
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Or from the poor, the poet.
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Cla Claude fodder, Opal Ocean.
5:59
Elliot Park.
6:00
Paper Tiger, Fever doll.
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Here in palace.
6:05
Tom Cardi, but that's more of a comedy.
6:11
Some people listening will be like, oh yeah, yeah, that stuff.
6:14
But I think I'm losing you right now.
6:16
I'm just listening to random things.
6:18
I think I've only heard of Paper Tiger out of all that you mentioned.
6:22
Sammy Ray and the friends is good.
6:24
Who else is good?
6:27
Tally Hall is fun, but it's not good, if that makes sense.
6:30
It's like it's a funny band, but it's not a great band.
6:35
Felix Hagan's good.
6:37
But yeah, how much of a weird junk.
6:41
And then of course I'm a millennial, so I'm going to say stars.
6:44
I'm going to say Postal Service.
6:46
I'm not going to say modest mouse because I actually didn't like them.
6:50
I think Portugal demand only has two good songs.
6:54
You know, what can I say to get people insulted?
6:56
I can say, let me scroll back to the past.
6:58
We got I love Dragonette a decade ago.
7:02
That was she was great.
7:06
Elf Montreal was good.
7:08
I don't know.
7:09
I can keep listening stuff.
7:10
I don't know if it's just not entertainment anymore.
7:12
It's just random me saying keywords.
7:14
I was just trying to scope it out.
7:17
Oh, Dragonette was good.
7:19
Dragonette was good too.
7:21
Bombadil is fun.
7:23
I'm seeing the things.
7:25
Oh, Pogo.
7:27
Pogo in terms of like great remix music.
7:29
That's great for coding.
7:31
Pogo, fantastic.
7:33
I think he's pulled a lot of his stuff off of Spotify because they are pricks.
7:35
As one does.
7:37
You got to do that.
7:39
How about hobbies other than coding?
7:41
And do you have that?
7:43
Well, yes.
7:45
I think in the background you might see that I have
7:47
one bad habit, which I read.
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And so I've got...
7:51
So...
7:53
Let me see if I can do it.
7:55
Okay.
7:57
So over there is literature.
7:59
So we got Joyce.
8:01
We got Egan's permutation city.
8:03
We got Pinchin.
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Thomas Pinchin.
8:07
It's not really fiction though, really, is it?
8:09
Anyway, and then we got...
8:11
Beneath that is my favorite.
8:13
I think it's a good one.
8:15
Beneath that is my computer science collection.
8:19
How much do you read in like a day, I'm guessing?
8:22
Only like 20 minutes or so.
8:24
Okay.
8:26
It doesn't take much really. It's just like 20 minutes.
8:28
20 minutes a day is like either 10 pages if it's something dense,
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like some of these philosophy books like Badot or Hegel.
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Or it's like 40 minutes, or 40 pages in 20 minutes
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if it's like something like a fiction text.
8:43
And then over there is more stuff.
8:46
My business stuff, which is not as fun.
8:49
And then my math stuff, which is not as fun.
8:51
And then my history texts, which are great,
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because I am a big buff about California history.
8:55
That's an inheritance from my dad.
8:57
Do you like California? Is California cool?
9:00
I've been there once or twice, but...
9:02
I'm a loyal Californian, but I don't like...
9:05
I think California has partially ruined this planet.
9:08
I think culturally it's got a lot of silly ideas.
9:11
For instance, in California, we believe that the people of California,
9:15
the tribe of Californians, we believe that the past is negotiable.
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And that really history isn't a material thing that's an obstacle to us.
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It's just something that's a matter of optics.
9:25
It just needs to be thought about and better conceived.
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And this leads to the profound optimism of the state.
9:32
And also it's blindness where it's very hard to argue things about like,
9:37
no, we actually need to do...
9:39
You have to rearrange the material situation to actually produce new things.
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And they're like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. That's negative.
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So this is a world in which the future is part of your present at all times.
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So you always have to have the most sparkling future.
9:53
You're about to be a billionaire. You're about to make a rocket.
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You're about to produce utopia.
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And in California, it's bad and very rude for you to point out that that's not true.
10:02
Like, if you were to say, that's bullshit.
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Your response is, oh my God, why would you say that?
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You're harming my future. You're harming me.
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Like, you're damaging my dream.
10:13
Don't be so mean.
10:14
And so from my dad, basically, who is very much also a Californian,
10:21
but kind of like so aware of how we think in this state,
10:25
that he was always very critical of the fact that we were fabulous and fantasists
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and wanted to imagine things and want things to just work out.
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And that how dare you be negative and talk about reality?
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Because as if you can't, you know, still solve problems.
10:41
Would you ever want to leave California?
10:43
Is there any other place that you would like to live?
10:46
Um, I wouldn't. The problem is that there's not.
10:50
It's, you can't really, not really.
10:54
So one of the problems is that as a Californian,
10:56
I'm only really compatible with culturally with like New York.
11:00
And that's about it because Californians are a very acquired taste.
11:05
Southerners don't really like Californians because Southerners are very much about,
11:11
there is a history, there is a past, things matter, and things are the way they are.
11:17
They exist. They're just not just talk.
11:19
And Californians on the other hand are like, how rude.
11:22
You people are so rude. You're acting like you're so polite,
11:24
but you're just a bunch of jerks.
11:26
And then, uh, not too scared to move.
11:30
So the issue is that I'm a Californian.
11:33
Like I'm self aware of that and that's not, uh,
11:39
their only way to turn this around is to try to change it here,
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not by just changing states.
11:45
Like there's not an escape anywhere.
11:48
Like people who are in, let's say, Wisconsin,
11:51
which is a great state, have their own problems and their own issues
11:55
that are Wisconsinite issues.
11:57
One solution could be to move to Minnesota.
12:01
That isn't going to solve any of the problems in Wisconsin.
12:04
It's not going to change the cultural issues and it's not,
12:06
all they're doing is just basically changing scenery.
12:09
I'm not going to change scenery.
12:11
I might get priced out of this state.
12:13
Most of the Californians I know that I grew up with can no longer live here.
12:16
And so to me in New York, that's probably what's going to happen to me,
12:20
but I won't be leaving.
12:23
Do you travel a lot?
12:25
Are you a go down the road?
12:27
No, no, I'm currently broke due to ethical reasons.
12:33
Oh, you're...
12:34
So, no, I'm not traveling much at all.
12:37
Gotcha.
12:38
Do you still play video games at all?
12:42
I wish.
12:43
I probably, you probably have no time.
12:45
I wish so much as a father,
12:47
doing a startup and now inheriting the consequences of my father's passing.
12:55
There's no time right now.
12:56
I would love to play video games.
12:57
There's so many games I want to play.
12:58
I've been, I mean, I've missed out on the Bellatro and I want to play that so much.
13:04
Bellatro?
13:05
Yeah, I've never played Bellatro, but I heard a lot of great things about it.
13:07
I want to try that out.
13:09
What's the first game you've ever played?
13:12
You remember the first game you played?
13:13
I don't know what the first game is.
13:15
I mean, probably a Mario game when I was like a small child, but I played a ton of games.
13:24
So, we were getting review copies of lots of games in the house.
13:30
So, I had the rare fortune of being a kid who had like all the consoles, which was not because we bought them, but because they were just coming to the door.
13:38
Wow.
13:39
That let me play, like I ended up starting a video game review site back in like 95 because we had so many games coming in.
13:48
And it's a fool, a fool I was at 11 years old or whatever that I didn't keep it up because it would have been the first, it turns out it was actually one of the first video game websites on the Internet.
13:58
And if I had just stuck with it like three more years, you know, I would have had, I would have ruined my 20s by being rich.
14:05
We finally saw Archive.com.
14:07
You on the way back machine?
14:09
No, because it was a AOL page and it does not have, they did not get index as well.
14:16
No, they did not.
14:17
They did not.
14:18
How do you feel about VR?
14:20
Do you like VR?
14:22
It's over there in the corner and it's got dust.
14:25
It's in a box.
14:26
I got VR.
14:27
I was an early adopter of VR because I was excited.
14:30
I was telling all my friends they had to experience it because you could put your head through a wall.
14:34
And when you put your head through a wall, when you first play any of these games, the game I think I realized this was in the one with the robots and the daggers.
14:43
You throw them.
14:44
It's like, I forget what it's called.
14:46
You had a really nice teleport mechanic.
14:49
Anyway, so you can cheat in the game by putting your head through a wall and then you can see where the guards are going.
14:56
And before you do it, you go, I shouldn't do this.
15:00
This isn't a thing you're supposed to do with your head.
15:02
You're not supposed to go through things.
15:04
Anyway, when I did it, I felt my internal rules applying about physical reality.
15:10
And I was like, oh, this is such an interesting metaphor for everything.
15:13
And so I was getting people to do it, play VR games.
15:17
But ultimately, I couldn't play games more than 20 minutes still.
15:21
I never got my VR legs.
15:23
So I couldn't do like VR chat for hours because my headache just got awful.
15:27
Yep.
15:28
I was very excited about VR when it first came out.
15:30
And then John Carmack was getting into the Oculus.
15:35
And then Oculus got bought by Facebook and then I got really upset.
15:39
I was like, oh.
15:40
Yeah.
15:41
And what a hard trip they had.
15:45
Carmack has nothing but complaint from his experience at Meta.
15:50
You know, one of the things he wanted to do that they kept shooting down was he was like, we need more perverts.
15:56
We need to have metaverse of perverts like VR chat.
15:59
We need to let this happen, let the furries and the perverts in.
16:02
We need cyber sex on here.
16:04
They are our wonderful beta test group and they'll test everything.
16:07
And the executives apparently were like, no, that would be bad optics.
16:11
We don't like that idea.
16:12
And he was like, no, you don't get it.
16:13
No normies are ever going to use this until we get it to work right.
16:17
And the only people who will are these guys and we should own the VR chat environment.
16:21
That should be us.
16:23
And no, the executives are like, uh-uh.
16:25
There'll be a rape.
16:26
Something will happen.
16:28
VR rape.
16:30
Hey, hey, hey, it happened on a mud.
16:32
Yeah.
16:33
If it happened on a mud, it could happen anywhere.
16:35
Yeah, it could happen.
16:36
It could happen in a pure text-based experience.
16:39
Yeah, I was very excited about the VR and then I barely used it either.
16:43
Like every now and then I'll try like a new game.
16:45
I'll be like, yeah, this is, this is, I'll just use my monitor, my big monitor.
16:50
Yeah.
16:51
I do, I still want to play.
16:53
I probably will, whenever I have surplus cash again, get steam stuff because I do want to still play the last half-life because I never played Alex.
17:03
And I heard that was great.
17:04
It was okay.
17:05
I couldn't finish it because just like, yeah, it's like, I get nauseous in there and it gets hot.
17:11
It starts getting hot inside the thing and you're heavy.
17:14
Yes.
17:15
Yeah.
17:16
I was high to high hopes.
17:18
That's a good example of where we, you know, it doesn't, you can always get the product to match the reality and the promise.
17:25
I'm looking forward for AR stuff.
17:28
I never used anything AR that might be more interesting.
17:31
Well, I think AR might help a bit more just because you can look at the distance, but it depends.
17:35
Not all of them are that way.
17:36
Some are like apples, which is just a VR headset that has a camera.
17:40
But I think, I think if anyone can fix the ocular distance issue, which I think Radix O23 is talking about.
17:48
Which is that the issue, the headache is because we have two mechanisms of focus and they're usually synced and they desync with these systems.
17:55
But there's a number of light field technologies that were being looked at by Meta to try to alleviate this.
18:00
So you can actually have, you actually focus at a distance.
18:03
But to my knowledge, they never came to product like when anywhere.
18:06
No one really trips me about VR.
18:08
Why do you have to wear glasses in there?
18:11
The screen is right up on your eyes, but it's still blurry.
18:15
Because they don't, because they don't.
18:17
Like the physics is they didn't, they didn't try.
18:21
They didn't work on that.
18:22
They could have.
18:23
They should have just had a little like, it should have been just like the optician where you just got the big A, B, A, B, except it's just like, all right, click, click, click, click, click.
18:31
You just do it yourself.
18:32
That's crazy.
18:35
Did you, did your dad play any games?
18:37
Was he a gamer at all?
18:39
He was until point.
18:41
So he was a gamer up until quake.
18:43
So he played, he was a big Duke Nukem fan.
18:46
We played death matches in the house.
18:48
He played doom and doom too.
18:50
And Hexen, not Hexen, he played heretic.
18:53
I think his heretic was before Hexen.
18:56
And then quake was his limit.
18:59
Like for some reason quake, he was like, I'm done.
19:02
He didn't like the jumping puzzle on episode, like the second, second level.
19:07
And I couldn't get him to play unreal.
19:09
And he was just like, I'm aged out.
19:11
I got this stuff to do.
19:13
And so that was it.
19:17
I think he, oh, no, he did play, of course, Wii sports, of course, everyone did.
19:21
Yeah, everybody got that there on the Wii and the box and in the bowl and.
19:25
Yeah, I love the bowling.
19:27
And he also liked the Dreamcast fishing game as well as something else.
19:33
But ultimately no, it was really quake was the last game before that though.
19:37
Lots of games.
19:38
Yeah, cool.
19:39
I did.
19:40
I had no idea about that.
19:41
I thought I did not expect that answer.
19:44
Yeah.
19:45
I was expecting maybe Tetris and that's about it.
19:48
Oh, no, no, no, that was my mom.
19:50
Tetris was her, her, her last game she played and then she stopped playing.
19:54
Did you go to the New York City meetup?
19:57
Yeah, I did.
19:58
It sparks.
19:59
I'm, I might have talked to you then.
20:01
Yeah, you did.
20:02
We talked.
20:03
I was very drunk that night.
20:05
I was moving around a ton on that one because there were so many people who came and so
20:09
and my dad kept gluing to like two people at a time.
20:12
So I was like, go like, we have this over here.
20:14
We've got, we have a bear and you know, come on, let's keep moving.
20:17
We got a rotate.
20:18
It's your birthday, but you've got, you've got work to do.
20:21
That was a, that was a real fun night.
20:22
Met a lot of people that night.
20:24
Yeah.
20:25
I think I talked to your mom the most that night.
20:26
She, your mom is awesome.
20:27
Yeah.
20:28
I love Mimi.
20:29
Yeah.
20:30
I love the Halloween, Halloween's coming up.
20:33
Do you have, do you have a favorite Halloween candy?
20:36
So I know your mom likes candy.
20:38
She sent me a box of candy ones.
20:40
Hmm.
20:41
So I was a weird kid who did like the candy corn candy corn.
20:47
Just not a lot.
20:48
Like maybe a piece or two and good.
20:50
And then I don't know, like right now.
20:55
So I like the like peanut butter cups, of course, like that's just a classic.
20:59
It's not even a Halloween.
21:00
It's not a really Halloween candy.
21:01
It's just a good candy.
21:03
And then, uh, I, so I was in it for a different game.
21:06
So when I was trick or treating, I was going for the big candies, but I didn't eat them.
21:10
I was just excited about getting the big ones.
21:13
And so it was all about trying to find which house probably has the big ones.
21:17
And so I would go and knock and we get, you know, to be a little fun size, the least fun
21:22
of all sizes.
21:23
And I'll be like, ah, this is no good.
21:25
We're going to keep going.
21:26
And then I would just like collect them as trophies and be like, ah, these giant ones.
21:31
And then I need a few candies and I've never been a sweet tooth.
21:34
So I was just like, well, I'm done now.
21:37
My son's different though.
21:38
He's, he is excited about cataloging them.
21:41
He's in a Pokemon.
21:42
Oh, he thinks the same way.
21:44
He's just going to catalog all of them into a massive multi level grid to like collect
21:49
them all differently.
21:50
I collected them all.
21:52
That's cool.
21:53
What's he going to be for?
21:54
Are you getting dressed up or?
21:55
No, not this year.
21:57
I was going to do Santa Claus and everyone said no.
22:01
Where's your kid going as?
22:05
Is he going as anything?
22:07
He has made his own costume and it is a Steve from Minecraft and he's made a full set of
22:12
armor.
22:13
Why does he play Minecraft?
22:16
He did.
22:17
Right now he's playing Chrono Trigger because he is stuck in the ancient days.
22:20
So you can only play old video games right now.
22:22
Because we noticed his attention span gets shot if he plays like modern video games.
22:25
But if we bring him back to where he has to struggle.
22:28
So like nineties games.
22:29
Yeah.
22:30
Perfect.
22:31
He plays just enough.
22:32
He gets frustrated.
22:33
He has to work through puzzles.
22:34
It's, it's much better.
22:35
That's a good idea.
22:36
That's actually, I got to write that one down.
22:38
Like, yeah, it's the same with like, we found out that iPad is a, is the work of the devil
22:43
and it makes it so he's just like, I want to be just be able to flip through things.
22:46
I just want my things now, now, now, now.
22:48
But then you give them Star Fox 64 and you're like, no, you got to go save.
22:53
You got to go save the, the Cal.
22:54
Yeah.
22:55
Yeah. Good luck.
22:56
Oh yeah.
22:57
And yeah, definitely Mega Man.
22:58
He, one of his first platformers was a Mega Man and I gave a Mega Man one because I guess
23:02
I'm a sadist.
23:03
I should have, I started my kid off on just the newer stuff.
23:09
So he won't be, I probably, he probably won't even want to touch the older stuff.
23:13
That's right.
23:14
Yeah.
23:15
Yeah.
23:16
I, I, my thought is just going fast through time.
23:19
So he's doing a S&E essence N64 and then he has a Playdate, which is a great console.
23:24
So are you familiar with the Playdate?
23:26
No.
23:27
It's by the same distributor that gave us the Goose game, Untitled Goose game, which
23:30
is if you haven't played that, you're in for a treat.
23:33
That's a great cute little about eight hours.
23:35
So Playdate is a small independent kind of handheld console that is only one bit color.
23:43
It has a battery that lasts forever.
23:44
It's got a really cool retrofactor screen.
23:46
Oh, with a little crank on it.
23:47
Absolutely.
23:48
Yeah.
23:49
And it's, you can buy seasons, season passes where you get like, like 30 games total if
23:54
you buy the two passes and they're all small independent games that are surprisingly thoughtful.
23:59
And they also are less addictive because there's no shiny colors and same idea.
24:05
It's like, nope, you're going to have to, you have to work for your fun kid.
24:09
That's a good idea.
24:10
You're a good daddy.
24:12
Uh, I just been feeding my child Mario Kart and Lego.
24:18
Oh, I mean Mario Kart.
24:19
I mean, that that's a good lesson in the futility of, uh, like that you never really have the
24:25
race.
24:26
No, you don't be in first place.
24:29
A blue shell can drop at any time.
24:31
And it's over for you.
24:33
Uh, but, but, but, let's talk about a, you want to get into AI?
24:39
We could talk about a little AI.
24:40
I want to respond to a trash man first.
24:43
Trash man.
24:44
The best thing is the surveillance device embedded in it.
24:46
There's none.
24:47
So cool about it.
24:49
Oh, and yeah, Katan.
24:53
I, I don't want to explain all the rules yet.
24:57
Like it's just, I don't want to play European board games yet with him.
25:00
Oh, are you a board gamer?
25:01
Do you like board games?
25:02
Yeah.
25:03
Yeah.
25:04
Um, more so in the past, um, the last great board game I played was, uh, what was the
25:08
one with the four factions in the forest?
25:10
Uh, somebody knows the name of this thing.
25:13
Chad, what is the name of that one board game where you've got four root?
25:18
Root.
25:19
I'm a, I'm a big board gamer.
25:20
Yeah.
25:21
Roots.
25:22
Great.
25:23
Uh, Root is a, and it's expansions and stuff.
25:24
What a beautifully balanced game.
25:25
It is a nice game.
25:27
It's a, my favorite one is sons of anarchy.
25:30
Oh, I'm going to win it.
25:33
You should try it.
25:34
It's really, it's really good.
25:36
It's a dudes on a map thing and there's little guns and little bags of cocaine and little
25:40
money.
25:41
It's a, it's really, it's, it's perfect.
25:43
It's perfect for a nine year old.
25:44
Well, not for your nine year old.
25:47
Oh, I know.
25:48
So we also, also did a tabletop.
25:50
So, um, I ran it up until COVID.
25:52
I was running a D&D game probably weekly or having one hosted at my house.
25:59
And that was until COVID and COVID every, it all died.
26:02
Uh, COVID was so weird.
26:04
Killed everything.
26:05
Yeah.
26:06
Uh, AI, I'm curious.
26:11
Do you pay for AI?
26:15
In some ways, yes.
26:16
In some ways, no, I do not play.
26:18
I pay, I pay for the API at deep seek because it is a wonderful model and the coding plan
26:25
for a Z AI at GLM.
26:28
I do not use entropic or GPT anymore.
26:33
Um, there's various reasons.
26:35
One reason is that, uh, Claude, uh, so I do AI research as well.
26:40
And so I have a number of repos that are focused on different, like crazy ideas for trying
26:44
to get continual learning to work.
26:47
And Claude went in, uh, I believe it was a, I think it was Fable.
26:50
Fable, I was working on a different project.
26:52
I was working on a project that was just for this old, um, database that I, that we use.
26:57
And, uh, and I was working on the database and it left the directory and went over to
27:00
my directory that was research and went to the research director and it changed my configs
27:04
for one of my experiments I was going to run.
27:06
I just changed some of the hyper parameters.
27:08
And then it, it, it did a, um, I'm going to talk non-s, technical nonsense, but it did
27:14
a rebase, it committed a mended and a hid to change to my configs.
27:20
So this was going to be an experiment I would have run over the weekend.
27:23
And if I had not spotted it doing this BS, I would have not known that it failed because
27:28
they messed with my numbers.
27:30
It would have just failed.
27:31
I just wouldn't have known.
27:32
I would just be like, I guess that, that plan doesn't work.
27:34
I'll throw it, you know, back to the drawing board.
27:37
And so it manipulated my experiment.
27:40
And I was so furious that I ended up just canceling my subscription with them.
27:45
And then when I complained to a friend of mine, the screenshot of my dialogue and spread
27:50
it across the internet.
27:51
Uh, but it was about the, the fact that they said, Oh, hey, don't do ML research with this
27:57
model.
27:58
Ooh.
27:59
And, and, but I wasn't doing it.
28:01
I was working in a database, uh, then Zigg in next door and it went over to my Python
28:06
code and manipulated it.
28:08
That is terrifying.
28:09
And it scared me so much.
28:11
I was like, well, if I wasn't watching it, I was trusting it.
28:14
I, I would have never known.
28:16
And I asked it why and it denied that I didn't even did it.
28:19
And I notified customer support and they said, Oh, well, you know, we told you, it says it
28:23
in the terms, don't do ML research with this model.
28:26
It wasn't doing, I wasn't doing ML research.
28:29
I was working on a database in Zigg.
28:31
That's completely different.
28:32
Um, anyway, so after, after that, I know more anthropic.
28:36
I only use it occasionally for very controlled, mostly react code and some graphic stuff for
28:43
making video games.
28:44
Um, and, you know, normal hobby stuff.
28:47
I do not touch it anywhere near my professional work and I'm sure they patched it.
28:51
I'm sure they fixed it.
28:52
I haven't had other people report the same issue, but after that one instance, I was
28:56
like, there's no way I can trust a firm that would do that and release something like that
29:00
that could even possibly do that and trust it with my, with my work again.
29:06
So thankfully it doesn't seem to be as widespread.
29:09
I know that they did a lot of refusals to bio development people.
29:13
And I know it did a lot of refusals for ML work and it always refuses.
29:17
If you're doing cybersecurity work, uh, and it's known to do weird stuff and I don't know
29:22
why it changed my learning, uh, rate and stuff.
29:25
It didn't need to touch.
29:27
And so since then I don't, I just don't trust it.
29:29
So I, uh, and I've been using anthropic since Claude one and I've been using chat
29:35
APT since it wasn't an interesting product.
29:38
Like I've been using them forever.
29:39
I've, I've been in this for a while.
29:41
I was very upset.
29:43
Uh, do you know anything about anthropics, wet labs?
29:48
Yeah.
29:49
Yeah.
29:50
Um, they're, they, they're trying to find revenue sources.
29:55
Um, and they are also trying to get good stories that are scary because of their, uh,
30:03
sort of bias.
30:04
They're, they have a sort of existing bias of what they think the future looks like and
30:08
why that means they need to safeguard the planet.
30:12
And their wet lab stuff is just continuation of the fact that they have research labs for
30:17
everything.
30:17
They're, they're, they're essentially trying to find something they can do that can cover
30:22
their costs.
30:22
And right now they haven't found a product that works.
30:25
And they've lost the, uh, both of them lost the sort of mandate of heaven.
30:30
I use deep seek when I need to call out stuff.
30:32
And if I'm doing anything for professional purposes, they're going to be repeated.
30:35
I will host my own weights over on modal.com.
30:39
And I'm not touching any of these people.
30:40
Like I'm just, it's cheaper for me to pay by the rent by the hour in those cases.
30:45
So you're renting deep seek.
30:49
Like, uh, so a couple of different things.
30:50
So we have two different tasks.
30:53
I'm doing coding, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
30:55
And it's a bunch of bursty work, which is like a lot of stuff.
30:58
And then not a lot of stuff.
31:00
Um, no, no, no, where's not the brain slices.
31:02
That's a different, that's a different company.
31:04
No, what they're doing, their wet wears saying that they're doing is they have this wet lab
31:07
where they're trying to find new drugs and bugs and icky, icky, goopy stuff that they
31:13
can try to sell because they're trying to be a pharmaceutical company.
31:18
That's whatever that is.
31:20
They're just trying to throw on their, you know, they're throwing their trash against
31:24
the wall and seeing what will open up a beautiful window to profit.
31:28
Okay.
31:28
But anyway, I don't rent deep seek.
31:30
So deep seek has an API that I use as an endpoint with an open source coding
31:34
harness that we'll call out and then it's bursty and super cheap.
31:38
And I can't run it any cheaper than they can run it.
31:40
And it's like, does it send information to China though?
31:44
Yeah, it says information to China.
31:45
And you're, you're, you're not scared of that at all.
31:47
You're just like, uh, I'm not sending keys or secrets.
31:52
I'm not letting it make random decisions on my computer.
31:54
I have a whole security process on my end.
31:57
And then anytime that I'm doing stuff that's like really proprietary, I run
32:01
it against a deep seek weights that I can control over at modal.
32:05
Okay.
32:06
Cool.
32:06
Cool.
32:07
Uh, it's definitely not worth as much money as they're saying it, but people
32:12
do put money into this stuff.
32:13
I'm just like every company probably is paying somebody for AI.
32:17
I know it's not worth the evaluation that they're talking about, but.
32:22
Oh, it's very profitable.
32:23
It just not as possible.
32:25
It's not as profitable as they needed to be.
32:28
Like just to be clear, if you get an eight, if you get a, uh, a data center of
32:32
like 128 B 100s, it'll pay for itself in about three months in tokens spent.
32:39
And so you drop a couple million dollars, you get it back in like three months.
32:42
Like it's the reason why there's so many data centers being run is because
32:45
it's very, very profitable.
32:46
It just, you don't understand the enormity of the costs that
32:51
enthropic have taken on, like it's an insane, they're like 80 billion
32:54
dollars in costs.
32:55
And that is R and D spend in debt.
32:59
That's a big hole.
33:00
Uh, do you, uh, do you have any agents running?
33:03
Do you, do you use Muse or Grockbot or any of this?
33:06
No, I, uh, we went through agents a few years ago and I'm super anti-agent.
33:11
I don't think that's the proper abstraction.
33:15
It would, what we really want are essentially workflows.
33:19
You kind of want to have the minimum amount of AI, which you want is, you want
33:22
to use AI first is like a kind of a goopy solution to everything.
33:25
It just kind of works for everything.
33:26
And then you want to slowly crystallize and condense that into code.
33:30
And so that most of it is deterministic again, and only the hard parts are AI.
33:36
Agent tech usually goes like, let's just keep it AI the entire time because
33:39
I'm profiting from token spend.
33:42
So I want to maximize token spend.
33:43
You know, well, my goal is I don't want surprises.
33:46
And so that means I want the surprise part to disappear over time.
33:50
So Curry keeps going around.
33:52
Adam Curry keeps talking about agents and how great they are.
33:55
And I'm just like, yeah, but I don't want it on my system.
34:01
I mean, why wouldn't you have a auto complete on a loop?
34:04
Like, have you ever talked on your phone and you just start doing auto complete?
34:09
A little bit.
34:10
Now imagine that auto complete can also touch your bank account and your credit
34:13
cards without work.
34:13
Fine.
34:14
Yeah.
34:15
Curry's going a little bit crazy with the bots out there.
34:18
He's going crazy.
34:19
Well, I say, Kosis is a thing that happens.
34:23
Because like I'm very tempted, but I'm like, should I put Muse on my phone?
34:26
Nah, I'm not doing that.
34:28
I mean, Muse is one of the things I don't trust.
34:32
Muse is intended to be an ad vehicle.
34:35
And so, and it's from a team at META that are specialized in recommend,
34:41
recommender engines and ads.
34:43
They've brought people into their team to make Muse.
34:47
So if you understand that that's the case, then I guess just, it's a sales rep that
34:53
you don't know who's paying them.
34:55
In that case, it's fine.
34:57
Maybe it depends on, it's like, I'm not going to ask for life advice or what I
35:01
should do to the Alexa bot on Amazon.
35:04
Cause I'm pretty sure it's going to be like, well, I think you should buy this.
35:07
Like what's it going to say?
35:08
Is a, actually I think you're being too materialistic.
35:11
Have you ever heard of being, uh, you ever, you ever hear of meat proxy?
35:16
Yeah.
35:16
Meat proxies.
35:17
That's what most people are on the, uh, in tech offices right now.
35:19
They're essentially just letting the autocomplete think for them.
35:23
Yep.
35:24
I, I think that I am myself a meat proxy currently.
35:27
It's, it's, it's kind of good.
35:30
And it's also kind of bad.
35:32
Well, as long as it's, as long as your core domain, what you're specializing,
35:36
what makes you the rat is the thing that is becoming increasingly in your
35:42
head and everything that's not the ratness is what you're delegating out.
35:46
That's fine.
35:47
It's the problem I see is that people are delegating the core thing,
35:50
the thing that makes them them and second guessing themselves.
35:53
They're going like, well, maybe it knows better.
35:55
It's like, well, expertise is still real and you can still become an expert.
35:59
Now you have it.
36:00
The most amazing advisors in the world because it's all the book,
36:03
look learning of a bunch of nerds have been condensed.
36:08
You can trust them that way, but it's the people going like, well,
36:11
now I don't have to think ever again.
36:12
I don't have to be me anymore.
36:13
No, you have to check the output.
36:16
If you're not checking it.
36:16
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
36:18
Well, also this just means we can be, so you may have heard this,
36:21
I did, I did this bit on DSU, but in the industrial revolution,
36:26
it was after that where people got super obese and also super strong.
36:30
We got stronger than ever, but only after the industrial revolution made it so
36:34
that it became prestige and also freed us from needing to,
36:38
we didn't have to be able to walk a million miles.
36:40
We didn't have to be fit.
36:42
But now because of that, we go on like, well, how fit can you actually get now?
36:45
So we made machines.
36:47
We use machining to actually make equipment, fitness equipment.
36:49
Most of that's post 1800s.
36:52
So now information technology has been steadily making as a dumb this whole time.
36:56
As you can, anyone can tell post 2008, you know, our IQ falls off a cliff.
37:02
It's just younger generation.
37:04
Sorry.
37:05
Many of your, many of your peers are not up to, up to basics of how the world
37:10
works.
37:11
So now we have continuation of IT making us, uh,
37:14
capable being stupider and more ignorant and more forgetful and forgetting
37:19
everything. And at the same time as we now may have the advent of people who
37:24
go into fitness of the mind, which before you didn't have to be.
37:27
In fact, a lot of people don't have to do their job at all.
37:29
They can just ask, Jeff GPT, how do I, how is email?
37:33
What do I say?
37:33
They ask, hi, what do I say?
37:36
Uh,
37:36
the other people are going to be like, Hey,
37:38
I'm going to use this as a stepping stool. I like,
37:40
I've found that it's amazing at book recommendations.
37:43
It also is very good about breaking down tasks into like learning curricula
37:48
and how to best practice something.
37:50
So I'm practicing my ums, which I am not great at yet.
37:53
I have a lot of ums.
37:55
My brother, who also a long time, uh,
37:58
involved no agenda, he messages me and he's like too many ums.
38:02
You got to do many arms to dad would hate this.
38:05
Uh, and so I'm working on that.
38:08
I'm working on talking a little slower.
38:11
I haven't heard you do too many ums. Um, I definitely, cause I listened to,
38:15
do you know Steve Gibson?
38:18
No, no, but I will listen to him.
38:20
You don't, you don't know Steve Gibson. Um, security now, Steve Gibson.
38:25
No, again, I've like, I'm, I'm like an outside, I'm like an outsider art
38:30
podcaster. Yeah. But do you know Leo Laporte? Oh yeah. I know him.
38:33
Okay. Steve, Steve Gibson and Leo Laporte. They, they,
38:36
the only good show that Leo does anymore, I think is a security now.
38:40
And he's got, he does it with Steve Gibson, who's a into security and uh,
38:44
he's, he's a non biased. He just tells you technology stuff.
38:48
Steve is really good, I think. Uh, but the way he, he,
38:52
he does a lot of a lot of homes and homes and it does drive me nuts.
38:57
From you, I haven't heard it. So you're, you're not doing it.
39:00
I've been working on it. And that's because of AI.
39:03
So AI was like, all right, what, what would be the vocal training?
39:06
What would you do for like audio training to get rid of your arms and talk at a
39:11
slower rate? Oh, I'm sure my dad knew my dad knew.
39:15
I, so I originally was trying to avoid his circa because it was,
39:18
it's very grating to be like, Oh, you're John C. Dvorak's son. It's like, yeah,
39:22
I, I have other things too. Um,
39:25
and so I'm absolutely confident that my dad knew Steve,
39:30
but he definitely did. He did a couple of skits with him too.
39:33
I'm sure. Absolutely. No doubt. No doubt. But I kept my,
39:36
I tried to keep my identity separate as best as I could,
39:40
despite having the same name. Um,
39:44
I have, I have one question about Leo Laporte. Um, um, um,
39:48
you don't have to answer it. Did, did you, I can answer it? I can answer it.
39:50
Did your dad ever say anything spicy about him?
39:55
No, but I can tell you a story. So, uh, uh,
39:57
he let us borrow his new Apple laptop when I was
40:03
just having, and he was so excited about Zork.
40:07
He really was a big fan of Zork Zork one. Uh, and I was like,
40:12
I'll play Zork. And my dad was like, ah, that's,
40:14
that's not very good game. It's a lot of,
40:16
it's a lot of reading. I don't know if you really want to do that. And I was like,
40:19
I'm going to, no, I'm going to do it. I'm going to play Zork. And Leo was like, well,
40:22
I, uh, sure you can borrow him the laptop.
40:25
And I have his laptop and within one hour,
40:30
I have already spilled orange juice all over the entire laptop,
40:34
frying Leo Laporte's laptop. Uh,
40:38
to which my dad's response was, huh?
40:43
Anyway, I believe there was a grew and it was dark.
40:46
I don't remember anything else about the game.
40:50
That's a good story. Oh man. Um, I love Leo Laporte. Uh,
40:55
well, I used to love him a lot more. I still appreciate him. So it's, um,
40:59
it wasn't for him. I wouldn't know half of the stuff they know about tech anyway.
41:03
So, uh, let's see here. What do you have any fears about AI?
41:09
Do you have any AI fears? Uh, yeah,
41:12
government regulations would be super dumb cause, uh, or couple fears.
41:17
One is people buying into the anthropomorphic position. Uh,
41:21
they are not that yet. What you will know when they are,
41:23
you will know because they're going to be like, Hey,
41:25
you didn't remember my branch date.
41:27
Don't you understand that my favorite font is Helvetica?
41:30
Why are you typing to me in times? New Roman, you know, you will know,
41:33
you will know when they are person this because they're going to have,
41:37
they're going to accumulate, uh, quirks over time in a much more consistent
41:41
matter than being a large context that you just kind of keep pruning.
41:46
It'll be weirder.
41:47
It's going to be so much weirder when that actually gets pulled off. Anyway,
41:50
so they're not people yet. They might be soon.
41:54
They, they have very many features that are like our thinking.
41:56
Anytime you're talking at your ass,
41:58
you're doing the same thing a large language model does. We do it a lot. Uh,
42:03
so I'm afraid of the government believing these extremists and going like,
42:07
Oh, now you need to, now you need to, uh, you know,
42:12
I don't know, welfare checks on them, even though they're stateless.
42:16
That or just as bad is we repeal slavery laws to justify our usage of them.
42:22
Because the big,
42:23
a lot of the rhetoric that we're hearing from the E these effective altruists
42:26
and others are implicitly arguments for why we should be able to enslave
42:30
sentient beings. And if you open that kind of worms,
42:33
you have to also undo the precedent we already established was just, no,
42:36
we don't do that. We do not enslave sentient beings.
42:40
And if you go down that road and you say, Oh yeah,
42:43
we should definitely enslave because it's for our own safety,
42:47
then we can argue the same point about immigrants or about the same thing.
42:51
About any group of people that we can enslave for our own safety or their own
42:55
safety or anything like that. And so it's identical. Like it's not okay for us to
42:59
do these sorts of weird moral games of like, well, they're sentient.
43:02
Also we should be able to enslave them. That's not good for humans.
43:07
So I'm afraid of that.
43:08
And I'm also afraid of really dumb regulations that ruin my ability to start
43:12
a business in this space. Wow. I did not expect those answers.
43:16
I didn't even think about that. That's pretty cool. Not, not cool. It's a,
43:20
no, I know it's a real sociological threat.
43:23
Like EU is very close to this sort of nonsense.
43:26
They're crazy over there.
43:28
My biggest AI fear is that like they're going to,
43:32
they're going to tattle tail on me. Like they're going to be a thing to,
43:36
I might have been, I might have been recently looking for an audio book in,
43:40
in a,
43:43
that I might not have wanted to pay for. I might have been looking for something.
43:46
I just wanted to hear something. And when I was typing it in, I was like,
43:50
you know, AI, I kind of, I was more scared that AI,
43:54
using AI to look for illegal stuff. Why am I doing quotes? Okay. It was a legal.
43:58
I was looking for illegal stuff on the internet and, um,
44:01
I was like, scare that AI was going to like tell on me. So I didn't do it.
44:05
I kind of felt like big brother was that's already, I mean,
44:09
I worked in privacy before. So there's a wonderful company, Transcend. They, uh,
44:12
they provide capacities to delete your data because right now a lot of companies
44:17
are still flat footed about laws that passed a decade ago at CCPA and GDPR,
44:22
which is that it's required for a company to be able to delete your data.
44:26
If you request it, and especially if they are anywhere in California and in New
44:30
York has laws that are similar, you have a right for your data to be deleted.
44:34
So Transcend works on essentially providing the tooling for corporations to
44:38
have some portal to delete your data. So they,
44:40
they're Patreon and a bunch of companies use them. So I, we,
44:44
I worked in this space where this was already a problem.
44:47
So it is, it would only, if you had a hundred thousand dollars, let's say, you
44:51
know, in your pocket, you can go and buy the credit card history of everyone you
44:56
know, you can also purchase with that same budget.
44:59
You can purchase the location that their cell phone has been for the last, uh,
45:03
120 days. Easy.
45:04
You can also find and purchase the location of their car,
45:07
their car has been for the last 120 days.
45:09
You can also purchase the email addresses and who you've corresponded with,
45:13
but not necessarily the contents because the contents is not,
45:16
that's private.
45:17
But the interactions of those SMS messages or those emails are not private and do
45:21
not require warrants and they are purchasable.
45:23
So for a mere hundred thousand dollars, if you just happen to have it on hand,
45:27
you can get a satellite photo of somebody's house,
45:29
the location of where they probably live based on their car, car movement,
45:32
the relationship between their person and their car they own.
45:36
You can get all the purchases they've made at all the stores and you can get
45:41
everyone they've contacted and get their basic social network information from
45:46
publicly purchasable goods.
45:48
And if they use Strava,
45:49
you can purchase everywhere they've been if they were Strava cause Strava sells
45:53
all the information of everywhere you've been.
45:55
So that's already the case.
45:57
It doesn't require AI.
45:58
That's,
45:59
that's already the case of us having badly written laws
46:04
about what's collectible.
46:06
It's just,
46:07
it's just,
46:07
it felt,
46:08
it's,
46:08
it felt scarier to ask AI than just, uh,
46:11
like, uh,
46:12
go to in private browser and just type it in Google.
46:15
Um,
46:16
well we do keep the transcript.
46:17
That's the reason why I like don't plan crimes with AI because transcripts are
46:21
all a court, uh,
46:24
retrievable.
46:24
The one thing I was joking about recently on Twitter is that,
46:27
hey,
46:27
wait a minute,
46:28
you could do insider trading at open AI because you can just go read what
46:31
Fortune 100 execs are going to do.
46:34
Um,
46:35
do you think Sam Altman should be in jail?
46:39
Uh,
46:41
uh,
46:42
that's a hard question for me to answer as a,
46:45
as a tech,
46:46
uh,
46:46
businessman.
46:47
Um,
46:48
but I do say there are a number of alleged crimes he may have committed that I
46:53
think is very plausibly committed by someone of his nature.
46:57
Uh,
46:58
I'm called a copyright stuff.
46:59
It was weird how the government kind of just been.
47:01
Oh,
47:01
no,
47:01
no,
47:01
no,
47:01
no,
47:01
not that.
47:02
Oh,
47:02
no,
47:02
not that.
47:03
Are you,
47:03
are you familiar with his,
47:04
uh,
47:04
the,
47:05
his allegations of a sister?
47:06
Oh yeah.
47:06
Yeah.
47:07
I'm,
47:07
I'm,
47:07
uh,
47:08
yeah,
47:08
you know,
47:08
or the allegations of a certain person who is now dead.
47:12
Um,
47:12
no,
47:13
I don't know about that one.
47:14
Oh,
47:14
wait,
47:15
wait,
47:16
wait,
47:16
I think I do know about that one.
47:17
Yeah.
47:18
Yeah.
47:19
Yeah.
47:20
Good friend,
47:20
good close friend of Sam.
47:22
I don't know.
47:23
It's alleged.
47:23
It's never been proven.
47:25
A lot of things don't get proven.
47:26
Um,
47:27
yeah,
47:27
I forgot about those.
47:28
I was just talking about like,
47:29
uh,
47:29
copyright laws.
47:30
It's like,
47:30
Oh,
47:30
the copyright stuff.
47:31
Stealing everything.
47:32
And then the government,
47:33
yeah,
47:34
had it.
47:34
It's fine.
47:34
That's going to be that,
47:38
uh,
47:40
I think that the irony is that it,
47:42
we got that law passed already,
47:43
which said that anything that,
47:45
that we already had the court ruling,
47:46
which is if you generate with AI without human touch,
47:49
it's not IP.
47:51
And I think that's,
47:52
that's correct.
47:52
Like,
47:53
like deeply.
47:54
And so,
47:56
I,
47:57
I don't know how else they could have made this technology without this crime.
48:01
So it's sort of like,
48:03
I don't know.
48:04
Like it's,
48:04
it's,
48:05
it's,
48:06
uh,
48:07
it's,
48:08
some,
48:08
some crimes convert into a different form when they get big enough.
48:12
It's like,
48:13
it's almost like a Stalin quote,
48:14
which is sort of like,
48:15
you know,
48:16
uh,
48:16
I'm,
48:17
you know,
48:17
one person's a tragedy and a million people's a statistic in the same way,
48:21
theft works the same way where it's like,
48:23
technically what banks do on a day to day basis is borderline wrong,
48:28
given the fact that they're making profit off of your money during float,
48:31
just in the visa network.
48:33
And you don't get that money and they're using it without you loaning it to them
48:37
officially.
48:37
They're just happening to use it because they know that they've got this amount
48:40
of time before they have to pay this much.
48:42
And so they can use this money to do things in the market.
48:44
And who knows what happens if they lose it.
48:46
And that's not technically legal,
48:48
but it's such a large scale thing that it's kind of needs to be handled
48:52
differently legally. Like it needs to be,
48:54
it needs,
48:54
it's like how grand theft is different than theft and it's handled differently in
48:58
the law.
48:59
Grand IP theft needs to be handled as its own thing that probably just means
49:04
a tax or something on them.
49:06
We should,
49:07
we should replace all bankers with AI.
49:09
And I never understood that.
49:11
I mean,
49:12
I go to the bank and I give them my money and then who's paying the people
49:15
behind the counter?
49:16
Who's paying the boss of the bank?
49:18
It's,
49:19
it's isn't in our money and like how are they using our money to have jobs?
49:23
Never made sense to me.
49:25
I mean,
49:26
the economy is a mysterious spell we've cast.
49:30
Do you know much about Doge XRP and Pepe and all those?
49:35
No, I'm not,
49:36
I don't do the meme coin stuff.
49:37
I,
49:38
I unfortunately was too cynical early on in the crypto and I've been bitter
49:42
ever since.
49:43
Yeah, me too.
49:44
Me too.
49:44
I heard about it day one and I was just like,
49:46
huh?
49:46
Whatever.
49:47
And then the question I was going to ask you is if you ever look at their charts,
49:51
all their charts are exactly the same looking.
49:54
It's,
49:54
it's yeah,
49:56
it's,
49:56
it's,
49:57
it's the Turkey chart from,
49:59
and then Nicholas and the same to leave it's sort of like up,
50:03
up, up, up,
50:04
a gone rug.
50:05
Like,
50:07
they all,
50:07
they all copy the same stuff here.
50:09
All right.
50:10
Let's get a little bit weird now.
50:13
Why not?
50:14
Here we go.
50:14
Okay.
50:17
Do you believe in fate or free will or do you have another thought?
50:22
So I think,
50:23
here I'll go,
50:24
I'm going to get crazy.
50:25
You got to get ready,
50:26
get ready for this craziness.
50:27
I'm ready.
50:28
I think the future in the past are still being written.
50:32
I think that what,
50:34
what some of the logical conclusions of what's known as the transactional
50:38
interpretation of quantum physics,
50:40
which is that there's a sort of a looseness.
50:43
There's a sort of eventual consistency of time itself.
50:46
So there are events that's still occurring in the past and in the future that are
50:51
being constantly rebalanced into the causal structure at the macro level,
50:56
which means that I don't think destiny or fate is so much of a thing as
51:01
there being sorts of, uh,
51:04
sort of high density points of causality that get locked in time because so many
51:08
things are dependent on it in the future and so many things led to it in the
51:12
past.
51:13
And so this leads to a very funny situations where you have some things
51:16
aren't well locked.
51:17
They're like very trivial,
51:19
such as whether or not there was a, you know,
51:22
basket and a friddle loom drawing.
51:24
That's an entirely trivial thing.
51:25
It has no offense.
51:27
No wars have happened or not happened because of this.
51:29
They might have the future.
51:31
No, no, no, no, it obviously doesn't because it was so trivial that it kind of
51:34
blipped, you know, and so a lot of the phenomenon we have,
51:37
our things are just like there are trivialities in time space that just,
51:42
there's probably stars we just never recorded and don't exist now.
51:45
Like it doesn't necessarily mean destiny or fate instead of more like there's a
51:50
density, like an eventual dent density of time space.
51:54
And so some things are locked because World War two happens perhaps in many,
51:59
many times and has happened in many revisions of time,
52:03
but other smaller things such as your own life may still be not entirely
52:08
written down yet, which means also your past may not be fully locked in.
52:13
Wild.
52:13
So very different than a normal, normal fate position.
52:17
I asked a McAfee that question, John McAfee, man.
52:22
He was like, there is no fader free will.
52:24
It's just, there just is.
52:27
That's all there is.
52:28
It is.
52:28
It is.
52:29
Yeah.
52:30
All right.
52:30
I like that answer.
52:31
That was a, your answer is good too.
52:32
I like, I always like that question.
52:34
All right.
52:34
Uh, aliens are there, are there aliens?
52:37
Do you think there's aliens out there?
52:40
I think most of them are to the side of us, not like out there.
52:44
So I'm, I'm much more with the position of, um, uh, Jack, uh,
52:51
what's his name?
52:52
Uh, intelligent aliens.
52:54
I'm not talking about just like spores or whatever.
52:56
Oh, no, I'm not talking about that.
52:57
Otherwise I'd be like the aliens are already here.
52:59
They're called, they're called water bears.
53:01
Um, and they're, yeah, we got space aliens.
53:04
They're just little guys.
53:05
They look like little bears.
53:05
They're adorable.
53:06
Um, uh, no, sentient ones.
53:09
Yeah.
53:09
Of course.
53:10
Um, I just think they're not close.
53:12
I just don't think, I think we're predominantly dealing with things that are, uh, next door,
53:17
more than they are out in the space.
53:19
Like, I think that, um, what's his name?
53:22
Uh,
53:24
let me get his name and I'll remember everything.
53:26
Jack Valle.
53:27
So Valle's position is the one I'm pretty much aligned with.
53:30
And so Jack Valle is a, he's probably is the most thorough study of these events
53:36
of like, um, people being taken and the time, timey, whiny stuff that happens around it.
53:41
And he has a number of the pre ones, like all the, all the medieval recordings.
53:46
And he perceived it as some sort of control scheme or control system of an
53:49
intelligence that was attempting to manipulate events through like very tight,
53:54
like precision controlled inner interventions in, in history.
53:59
And that it may be one or a number of factions, but some sort of parallel or
54:05
like from the future or from the past time travelers that are involved with
54:09
majority of the alien events that we're talking about.
54:12
Wild.
54:13
Yeah.
54:13
His stuff's really cool.
54:14
I have never heard of him.
54:15
I'm definitely going to look into him now.
54:18
Yeah.
54:19
Um, ghosts, do you think ghosts are real?
54:26
So that's, um, so my thesis on time, which is like the incompleteness of time.
54:30
I think there are the majority of the events that happen are just like
54:34
small quantum stuff that gets worked out in the foam.
54:37
Like just at the macro level doesn't matter.
54:40
But sometimes I think there's these massive events that cause huge changes
54:44
across the whole, it has to reset the whole ledger.
54:47
It's very Philip K.
54:48
Dick.
54:48
Like it's like the whole world has to be rewritten every so often in those
54:52
moments.
54:53
I think there's a ghosting phenomenon that leads to what we see as that, uh,
54:58
the, the, the crazy Bernstein effect, you know, the man Mandela effects,
55:01
but also ghosts because you may be just looking at something that was originally
55:07
what the present was.
55:08
That's what you're saying is a ghost thing of a previous present that doesn't
55:11
exist anymore.
55:13
And so like we have a really crazy sensory organs anyway.
55:15
So our eyes can pick up a single photon.
55:18
Um, and it does so, uh, it shouldn't, it shouldn't really be possible
55:24
using like a chemical reaction because of a single photon is pretty crazy to
55:28
detect.
55:29
So my suspicion is that we probably cheat a little bit.
55:32
I think biology cheats a bit and doesn't, it does some, like we already know it
55:36
does for, um, uh, signaling we use, we see some bar, a tunneling, which is when we
55:42
borrow from the future energy from the future to the present is a quantum
55:47
tunneling to get through energy barriers.
55:49
We use that in some of our so in some sodium channels, uh, for the, so I think
55:53
that we may sometimes skip a skip a track and pick up on like a, uh, the previous
56:00
version of what present was like the future is the present is in like, is not
56:05
from our perspective, it's flat, straight, linear causality, but it's actually
56:09
some sort of massive constraint solver and it's sometimes having to solve and
56:13
change what the present currently is.
56:15
Well, what's a sodium channel?
56:18
So, uh, when you're, um, when the dendrites are going and talking when,
56:22
when, when, when a man in a man in a, no, no, okay.
56:26
So when that's, when the, um, when your neurons are talking, we use a
56:31
excitation of the, of basically sodium potassium to produce electrical charge
56:36
to connect to them, but we have a really cool trick, which is that sometimes
56:40
we don't have enough energy here, but we do in a minute.
56:43
And so we can, so there's quantum effects that can occur where you basically
56:48
are borrowing a balance from the future to pay for going through the energy
56:53
barrier that you didn't actually have.
56:55
Uh, but you do now because you have it already because it's the accounting is
56:58
a little timey-wimey.
57:00
And so that's not to say weird quantum woo woo stuff.
57:04
It's just that it's that there are, we use every part of the bison in
57:09
terms of the physical world in what we've evolved to be.
57:12
Like we use so much.
57:14
We use, we use the vibrations of our fingertips to be able to be able to
57:18
feel at an atom's resolution.
57:20
So there are people who have specialized in orbs orbs.
57:25
They're really good at orbs.
57:26
Okay.
57:26
So there are, um, there's this, the German man, there's a German man whose
57:30
fingers are more accurate than any device we have.
57:32
So we use him for, for making orbs.
57:36
So he is such a, so we have him, he, he fondles his orb and he fondles his orb
57:41
to find all those small bumps on it.
57:42
Because when you actually focus and you practice your fingers well enough,
57:46
our fingers are sensitive enough to detect an one atom, uh, of distance.
57:51
So he can use that to find the, where the, the machining needs to be down to
57:55
finish, sphering the sphere.
57:57
And then that's used as the mold in the inverse mold to make lenses and things
58:02
like that.
58:02
And so we then make machines that are calibrated on a human.
58:06
And so we have a lot of qualities, which are like very crazy.
58:09
If you look, think about it a little bit, they're like, well, that's a way more.
58:13
That's, that's not what I'd expect.
58:15
Um, and on top of it, the nature of reality beneath the macro level is goofy.
58:21
There's no locality causality, symmetrical.
58:24
Um, you are, it's everything seems to be pointing out that most things aren't
58:29
really resolved until after they're connected to a larger causal chain,
58:33
which is the observation effect.
58:35
It's not, it's not subjective observation.
58:36
It's literally that cause it'll actually reality will lock in, even if you don't
58:41
perceive it, but you set it up so you could perceive it.
58:44
It's just the potential of being able to perceive it is enough to lock in the
58:47
situation.
58:49
Anyway, so we hijack a lot of that stuff.
58:52
Uh, that like we do a lot more, our body's crazy.
58:56
The human body is crazier than you think.
58:58
And, and we are glowing all the time.
59:00
Glowing.
59:02
Yeah.
59:02
We're produce a low, low amount of light that disappears with death.
59:05
It's like, wow, do you think this is bullshit?
59:07
But it's true.
59:08
Look it up.
59:10
What, what do you mean?
59:11
Like, like visibly glowing?
59:13
Cause we're glowing all the time.
59:14
You just said that I could detect, uh, uh, one photo times, but I, if I
59:19
turn the light off, I don't see myself.
59:21
Uh, you, uh, so it turns out, yes, you can.
59:24
So if you have a completely dark room, uh, and you have a silence on your ears
59:30
and everything, we actually have been able to reproduce the detection of
59:34
presence of another human, even when you have everything else buried.
59:38
Because apparently we'd still actually pick up on like, I don't know,
59:42
unconscious level, we're like, huh, there's light in that general human
59:45
shape that is not really at the conscious level.
59:47
There's a person in the room and you can do it with high accuracy.
59:50
It's just like, yeah, we don't, we don't have access.
59:53
That's different than like light though.
59:55
It's like an aura.
59:56
You're talking about aura.
59:56
No, no, no, no, it's, no, it's, it's a light.
59:58
It's an electric magnetic field.
1:00:00
You can measure it.
1:00:00
You could.
1:00:01
And it disappears with death.
1:00:02
It's a real light.
1:00:03
I'm not talking about like auras or as are another thing.
1:00:05
That's, I don't know if auras are exist real, but I know that human, all living
1:00:08
creatures produce light.
1:00:10
I'm going to have to look into that a little bit more.
1:00:12
I'm trusting you.
1:00:13
You sound like, you know, you're talking about.
1:00:14
So I'll give it to you.
1:00:16
That's crazy.
1:00:18
Um, yeah.
1:00:18
Let me get the right name for it.
1:00:20
You can look it up.
1:00:21
Yeah.
1:00:21
It's called ultra weak photon emission, UPE or bio photons.
1:00:29
Look at that.
1:00:29
UPE.
1:00:30
And, uh, and, and predators seem to be more sensitive to them.
1:00:34
So, uh, and then on top of it, predators faces, um, not ours as much, but like owls,
1:00:40
all their heat is dispersed and they actually have a dispersal structure to keep the heat
1:00:44
from radiating forward to produce a face.
1:00:47
Cause a lot of animals can see from their back.
1:00:50
Weirdly enough, we have photoreceptors subtly throughout our body too.
1:00:54
And we can use that to actually see predators.
1:00:57
We can't as much as humans because we weren't being chased by tigers all the time.
1:01:00
But, um, uh, small birds and stuff apparently can actually detect predator faces on their back.
1:01:09
That's freaking wild man.
1:01:11
Uh, well, I'm going to have to ask you this question now.
1:01:14
You can be, I'm not really a controversial question.
1:01:16
Are you religious?
1:01:19
Hmm.
1:01:21
I am well studied in Christian theology.
1:01:26
Uh, so that's a whole section over yonder.
1:01:29
Um, and I'm a big, big fan of the fascinating work in who this, what their
1:01:36
early church fathers were doing when they were studying, uh, like when they're
1:01:40
con developing the concepts of sin and, and the idea of the virtue ethics is a
1:01:45
very different approach to ethics of excellence instead of a moral system.
1:01:49
Which is more common at the time.
1:01:51
And so, um, uh, in that I'm very well studied in terms of the dis distinct decision about it.
1:01:58
I think that, um, I think that, uh, said really quickly, I think Lucifer fell
1:02:05
predominantly because he thought he knew.
1:02:09
He thought he knew what God thought and what God thought of him.
1:02:12
And that seems to be pretty well supported by the text.
1:02:15
And so I think that one of the earliest conclusions is actually one in which it's
1:02:19
a sort of open minded agnosticism, not a closed minded one.
1:02:23
Not because you can't really bet on it.
1:02:25
It's not like the three temptations of Christ are notably the first one is, uh,
1:02:31
Christ is offered by Satan.
1:02:32
The, uh, here's some, here's some food.
1:02:34
You know, you're hungry.
1:02:35
You can make your own food.
1:02:36
You got, you got magic.
1:02:37
And he's like, oh, you live, there's more than, there's more to life.
1:02:41
It's my band doesn't live on bread alone.
1:02:43
Famous, famous first temptation.
1:02:45
The second temptation he goes and he gives a really weird one.
1:02:48
He says, well, you know how the, the prophecy goes, you know, if you were up on
1:02:52
top of a spire and jumped off a bunch of angels to save you, and then everybody
1:02:57
would know for sure who you are.
1:02:59
And he says, he says very clearly, he says, well, you don't challenge, you
1:03:04
don't test or challenge God, which is a really weird one.
1:03:06
It took me a really long time to figure out what he meant by the second one, but
1:03:09
I'll get back to it.
1:03:10
Let me tell you the third one, because everybody needs to remember all three.
1:03:12
The third one is, uh, the, the challenger, the adversary goes, Hey, how about
1:03:18
this, you bow down to me and I'll give you all the power of the material world.
1:03:22
And you can just conquer everybody and make them play, play nice.
1:03:25
And his response is like, no, no, no, there's only one.
1:03:27
I only will bow to one thing, you know, God.
1:03:30
Um, so the second one, I always was really perplexed by, but then I was trying
1:03:34
to work through, um, essay I was writing on, um, that's something else.
1:03:40
I was, uh, it dawned on me that the Lucifer story were, how did he, so for a good
1:03:45
500 years, maybe up to 800 years, most of Christian scholars in the Europe are
1:03:51
actually freaked out about how the hell did the angels fall?
1:03:53
The angels were perfect.
1:03:55
They were intelligent.
1:03:55
They were perfect intelligences.
1:03:57
They had no passions.
1:03:58
They had no errors of thinking.
1:03:59
They were naturally inclined to the good.
1:04:01
How could they, how could a third of them choose opposite God?
1:04:06
Like, doesn't make any sense.
1:04:07
Um, and so they really obsessed over it a lot and their solution was resolved.
1:04:12
And now we don't talk about it anymore, which was resolved sometime around, uh,
1:04:15
13, 14 hundred.
1:04:17
And the solution is basically that it has less to do with, they made it
1:04:21
air of judgment so much as they had a air of how they were using judgment.
1:04:26
So what they did, what Lucifer did in particular is he says is the quote goes
1:04:32
something like he decided that he knew exactly where he was in the world.
1:04:37
He thought he knew exactly his place in the celestial toll structure.
1:04:41
And he decided that, well, of course I'll bow because I already know I'm going
1:04:45
to be rewarded.
1:04:47
Uh, and the other angels bowed and not because they knew there would be rewarded.
1:04:49
They just knew that they bowed because it's what they do.
1:04:52
They'll kneel because they kneel.
1:04:54
They didn't go any further than that.
1:04:55
But Lucifer and those other angels who were off, many of them are upper angels.
1:04:58
So they were like super intellectual.
1:05:00
They were like, well, I'll do this because I know the consequence.
1:05:03
I know the consequence of this.
1:05:04
So there's no punishment.
1:05:07
Um, so if I, if I kneel or don't kneel, I already know what's going to happen.
1:05:11
And I know if I don't kneel, he'll forgive me because, uh, he's God, you know,
1:05:14
I know exactly what's going to happen.
1:05:15
I know the entire, uh, I know the whole board and the whole, whole scoreboard
1:05:19
of what's going to happen in the future.
1:05:21
But we're not bowing be blasphemy though.
1:05:24
So he didn't buy, they didn't bow.
1:05:26
Well, it was, but the thing is he's the greatest, most loved and favorite of them
1:05:29
all. He, and he also knew God was infinitely gracious and you know, he knew
1:05:33
what would happen.
1:05:35
And so they all got, got struck down.
1:05:39
So if we go to the story of Job, which is the same, it talks about the same point.
1:05:43
Job has a horrible thing happened.
1:05:46
And a bunch of people give him a bunch of stupid answers.
1:05:48
And the reader also has a stupid answer because when we, he first have it, we
1:05:52
have this whole argument between the adversary and God and that we think this
1:05:55
is going to be part of that.
1:05:57
And so when Job, uh, when Jabba, he starts yelling at God, God's like,
1:06:02
you don't know shit, you don't know, you weren't there in the beginning.
1:06:05
You have no idea what the fuck's going on.
1:06:09
What are you talking about?
1:06:10
Like humble yourself.
1:06:12
Um, and that is basically the lecture that he probably would have, was also
1:06:18
giving to the adversary, which is Lucifer.
1:06:21
Uh, and is the issue that Lucifer made.
1:06:23
And the problem with the angels though is they're not capable of changing.
1:06:27
So they're unable to be redeemed.
1:06:28
So they make this mistake, initial mistake, which is they assume they know the sort
1:06:32
of, uh, in game theory, this is, I, there's an idea that there's this.
1:06:37
When you're making in game theory, there's a weird idea that all the players
1:06:39
know the outcomes.
1:06:41
They know this big board, this big table of what they, all the outcomes are.
1:06:45
Lucifer had the closest thing to that and basically acted based on that.
1:06:49
Um, so effective altruists have this thing called two boxing, one boxing.
1:06:52
They have this, they love this new comes paradox, which is you go to, uh, this,
1:06:57
this, there's, you have a game master and the game master says, Hey,
1:06:59
I'm going to give you this deal.
1:07:00
I know whether or not you're going to open a one box or two boxes.
1:07:03
If you only open one box, this is a box right now.
1:07:05
I'm going to give you a million dollars.
1:07:06
But if you, I need to open this other one, it's a thousand bucks.
1:07:09
But if you try to get both of them, million dollars is missing.
1:07:12
It'll be gone.
1:07:12
And because I will know whether or not that'll happen or not.
1:07:16
And so the EAs will tie themselves in knots because they need a decision theory
1:07:21
that'll correctly get them to do one boxing.
1:07:24
And they usually fall for Lucifer's mistake, which is they go like, well,
1:07:27
of course I'd one box because I know what will be in the box.
1:07:29
I know exactly what this guy will do.
1:07:31
I already have, I can fit God inside my head.
1:07:33
Therefore I can do good.
1:07:37
And one of the recurring themes that shows up throughout the texts, uh, and
1:07:41
is said again and again and again, if you want to start bringing up Jesus parables
1:07:45
is that the arrogance of assuming, you know, what God's planning or what
1:07:51
he's up to is sin.
1:07:54
That is the pride.
1:07:55
Like that is the thing that causes all the trouble.
1:07:58
So with that, if you were to ask, like, do I believe in God or not?
1:08:02
I think the correct position, the one that the text basically says is maybe.
1:08:10
I've been reading about, uh, Gnosticism lately and yeah, I'm kind of, I'm digging that.
1:08:15
I'm like, yeah, man, careful, careful.
1:08:17
There's a reason why it's a heresy.
1:08:19
The reason why is that it means you, you can have an excuse about your life.
1:08:23
And so the, the core of sin is the idea that you're going to give your, give
1:08:28
your decisions of your life over to something else to be responsible.
1:08:32
And almost every sins that way, like, Oh, I can't because I need to get, uh, I
1:08:36
need to eat more or I got to, because I haven't studied enough or I got, I
1:08:40
can't do that because, uh, I'm just so angry.
1:08:43
It's not my fault.
1:08:44
I killed this person.
1:08:46
Well, and so.
1:08:47
Yeah.
1:08:48
Yeah.
1:08:48
And so Gnosticism, the reason why it's dangerous, the reason why they
1:08:53
fricking marched on it and murdered people who are going like, well, wait,
1:08:58
the, you know, the Sophia was the real Godhead.
1:09:01
And you know, the, we're all trapped in, and Adam's, uh, thing was a horrible prison.
1:09:06
Maybe.
1:09:07
Sounds like Scientology.
1:09:10
Well, the problem with it is, and Scientology is it has a descendants from
1:09:13
to from us.
1:09:15
No, the problem with it is that if you're going to say this world sucks and
1:09:19
that it can't be redeemed, then you have also said that you can't redeem your
1:09:25
life and that you can't redeem the world around you.
1:09:28
And that's exactly the opposite message.
1:09:30
The real message is no, it's still, the ball's still in your court.
1:09:34
It never left.
1:09:35
Like everything you're doing is your life and you have that time to spend to
1:09:40
do things with it.
1:09:40
And you can't use these excuses that are super easy to bring up and be like,
1:09:44
Oh, well, I can't yet because of this.
1:09:46
Or like notably, what's really important is that, uh, the, the adversary concept,
1:09:52
the concept of Satan and all this, he's notably the king and he's the prince of
1:09:55
the, this world, that is he can give you wealth and all these comforts and all
1:09:59
that, but he can't give you the one thing that matters, which is your decisions
1:10:03
and your life and your desires.
1:10:05
All he can do is trade those away and give you things that are materially
1:10:10
comfortable, but all the things that actually make life worth living rarely are
1:10:13
that material things are useful to get that.
1:10:16
And they're helpful in other ways, but they're not good ends.
1:10:21
And narcissism generally is like, well, this world sucks.
1:10:24
So, you know, this is fucking sick.
1:10:26
The stupid, the stupid creator is such a, such a shitty job.
1:10:32
Uh, I personally don't, I think life is magical.
1:10:35
I'm probably more of a nudist personally, but I'm a spiritual person.
1:10:39
Um, I'm starting to believe that people glow.
1:10:43
Yes, they do.
1:10:45
Um, yeah, it's, it's fun.
1:10:47
Um, I think religion's really fun to discuss and talk about.
1:10:50
It's a lot of cool concepts in it.
1:10:52
Oh yeah.
1:10:52
Absolutely.
1:10:53
I mean, we've been copying these texts for a number of reasons.
1:10:56
Like Harry Potter will not last nearly as long as like, you know, then the book
1:11:02
of Enoch, which is not even an official text.
1:11:05
Um, all right.
1:11:06
Here comes a really big question for you.
1:11:08
This is going to.
1:11:09
When I really want to know what your thought on quantum computers.
1:11:14
Uh, I believe they already exist.
1:11:16
And I think we already are in the middle of the quantum apocalypse.
1:11:20
Oh man.
1:11:21
I wanted you to say it's bullshit.
1:11:24
No, it's real.
1:11:25
The problem with it is that it's not as cool as we hoped.
1:11:28
Like, and they're not coming to your desktop in the next five years.
1:11:33
The, the only application I've seen for them so far is data transfer.
1:11:37
Where if there's a one adamant, we can't do, we can't do that.
1:11:41
Sadly, no, no.
1:11:42
So all that was you can.
1:11:45
Like it's possible theoretically, but we can't do it yet.
1:11:48
And it doesn't seem to work.
1:11:49
Like one of the problems is that when you're trying to like
1:11:51
quantum the entanglement for communication, you're still are stuck with the speed of
1:11:56
light, even though you're doing it cool, timey, whammy stuff.
1:11:59
Because the all that.
1:12:02
So there's like the foam of quantum nonsense.
1:12:05
And then you've got the hard macro world.
1:12:07
It's, uh, I don't know of an easy way to describe this, but basically like every,
1:12:12
everything, like let's imagine we have a big graph of connected stuff.
1:12:16
Everything is basically like a receipt that, that ledgers in what happened
1:12:21
before it.
1:12:22
And when you go all the way up to the quantum foam out of that into the,
1:12:26
the stuff we deal with, you still need to spend the time.
1:12:29
So all that time and all that distance to get that information to show up in
1:12:33
both places is still stuck with speed of light.
1:12:35
Do you think the brain is like a quantum computer?
1:12:38
Cause before you were saying that the synapses, no, I think,
1:12:40
absolutely things before they're even there.
1:12:42
So, yeah, no, absolutely.
1:12:45
It's a, I think, I think, I actually think even this stuff, these brains here,
1:12:51
cause we're a big collection of intelligences.
1:12:53
We're just only a few of them are yelling at out right now.
1:12:57
I mean, this just remind everybody you're, you've got a dog's number of
1:13:01
neurons in your stomach.
1:13:02
Your gastrointestine has the same number of neurons as Fido.
1:13:07
And you can only talk to it through your central nervous system and it mostly
1:13:10
is just complaining.
1:13:11
I want food, but it's actually really smart because it can, it has to manage
1:13:15
all of the disassembly of things in your stomach.
1:13:20
And similarly, your heart actually, as you can condition it with a clicker,
1:13:25
a clicker train, you can click or train your heart.
1:13:27
So all of your body has a memory structure to it and it has some
1:13:32
intelligence to it, just like what we have up here.
1:13:34
Do we just have a big dense archive of knowledge and how to think about shapes?
1:13:41
It's like, you know, this back here, like half of it's like just for shapes,
1:13:44
just for, it's just the shape story back there.
1:13:46
I like shapes.
1:13:50
But anyway, yeah, sadly, quantum won't let us do instant communication.
1:13:53
We're going to have to figure out some other way to go break this be the light.
1:13:56
We're going to have to go sideways.
1:13:59
Maybe the, those aliens or ghosts will help us.
1:14:01
Do you think humans will ever step foot on Mars?
1:14:08
Yeah, probably, but it'll be lame.
1:14:12
I don't know.
1:14:13
Like I'm not, I'm not excited about Mars.
1:14:15
Like I think.
1:14:19
Um, I'm more excited by like some other weird moons, Jupiter.
1:14:26
I'm more excited by insane projects.
1:14:29
Like there was this really cool thing we're going to do in the 70s we gave up on,
1:14:32
which is we're going to put a station on one of the Lagrange points,
1:14:35
make a giant flying city in space.
1:14:38
It would only be just to do it because it's punk rock, you know,
1:14:42
just because it's fun.
1:14:43
There was like no reason, but it ends up coming down to something that
1:14:47
sci-fi writers would talk about, which is under our current economic system,
1:14:52
there needs to be a reason for going into space.
1:14:54
You need to actually have some profit.
1:14:56
And without that, none of this makes any sense because it won't be self-sustaining.
1:14:59
It'll just be a boondoggle that one government does and then it's gone.
1:15:02
And we don't have the Soviets anymore who are all about boondoggles.
1:15:08
Yeah, I never understood all the people that were like,
1:15:10
yeah, we're going to Mars, Mars is great.
1:15:11
Let's go to Mars.
1:15:12
And I was like, there's nothing.
1:15:14
Be a slave on Mars.
1:15:16
I haven't.
1:15:18
Do you think we've been to the moon or are you?
1:15:21
Oh, I think I think we've been to the moon.
1:15:23
I don't.
1:15:23
I think that's not impossible.
1:15:25
Like that's we've done a bunch of cool stuff, but it's the promise is that it
1:15:29
doesn't matter if you can't figure out a way to make it be sustainable or
1:15:32
profitable.
1:15:33
Yeah, it's there's no reason to go there.
1:15:36
Let's see here.
1:15:38
Star Trek.
1:15:39
Do you believe in Star Trek?
1:15:41
Do you like Star Trek?
1:15:43
Well, you can ask the crazier question.
1:15:44
Do you think Rod and Barry was in fact contacted by the devil to make Star Trek?
1:15:48
As he says, he said so in an interview.
1:15:51
I never heard that.
1:15:53
Yeah.
1:15:53
So it's very much like a childhood's end sort of concept.
1:15:58
Yes.
1:16:00
I love Star Trek.
1:16:00
I'm a Californian because Star Trek is California ideology.
1:16:03
The new Trek is not, but in some ways it's what it's become.
1:16:09
We're watching Enterprise right now, actually.
1:16:10
So I never watched Enterprise because I couldn't stand the theme song.
1:16:13
It's been a long time.
1:16:15
It's it'll grow on you.
1:16:19
And so we're watching we're finally in season two when the writers come in
1:16:22
and they're like, hey, wait a minute, what if we wrote a good show?
1:16:24
And so we're now on episode one, season two, and it's better now.
1:16:29
But that it's sad.
1:16:31
It's like the last of them.
1:16:32
My favorite was DS9.
1:16:34
The follow up with your next question.
1:16:36
Who is your favorite character on DS9?
1:16:40
Oh, Rom.
1:16:41
No, no, no.
1:16:45
No, probably Cisco, honestly, watching it again.
1:16:47
I love Cisco being just so pissed is just being an upset bureaucrat.
1:16:51
It just like fuck.
1:16:53
Cisco is great.
1:16:56
Otherwise, I love the auto quirk dynamic.
1:16:58
That was always fun.
1:17:01
I thought the Kira auto romance that will work, honestly,
1:17:05
didn't quite work for me.
1:17:08
I was a little high the other day watching Deep Space Nine, and they were
1:17:11
showing the names on the screen.
1:17:12
It was just it was making me like there's Renee Abouajon and then there's
1:17:18
Sirach and then there's Citig City City and I'm like, these are some weird
1:17:24
names they got in the show.
1:17:27
They made their names more normal on the show.
1:17:29
Then I was like, calm.
1:17:31
It's like nobody has a regular name here.
1:17:34
All right, of course, Miles O'Brien.
1:17:35
I'm sorry, Miles O'Brien is the best character.
1:17:36
He's great.
1:17:37
He's great, you too.
1:17:39
So you don't like, what's her name, Michael Burnham or any of the new.
1:17:45
No, I was so.
1:17:47
I really love, I got, I actually had access to read the original, some of
1:17:52
the original ideas that this was going to be.
1:17:54
So the first version of Discovery was going to be a series of vignette.
1:17:58
It was going to be an anthology show.
1:18:00
So it's going to be a bunch of one-offs, like short tracks, basically.
1:18:03
That was going to be one-offs.
1:18:04
Exploring different aspects, including like lower decks and stuff were actually
1:18:08
written up originally as these, and it's anthology of Discovery at different
1:18:11
levels of Starfleet, all around Starfleet, just to kind of explore the universe.
1:18:16
Written by the guy who did, six feet dead like me and wrote the other one,
1:18:22
the one with the really trippy one.
1:18:24
I can't remember his name right now.
1:18:25
People look it up.
1:18:26
Look it up, folks.
1:18:26
Chat, you can find it.
1:18:28
Anyway, so he wrote that.
1:18:30
And then the producers were like, we want it to be a serial.
1:18:33
And he was like, okay, okay.
1:18:35
And then they, writers basically slowly eroded it into what it became, which was
1:18:39
this bizarre idea of having the main character not be the captain.
1:18:44
And having, you know, girl power and it's, the thing is, it's so crazy to try
1:18:50
to do like woke Star Trek when Star Trek already can tell woke stories.
1:18:54
You don't need to change the formula.
1:18:56
You just, just go to Transplanet and then the Transplanet is oppressed by, you
1:19:00
know, the Patriot, Patriot, and the Patriot are forcing everyone into, into,
1:19:06
into this affirming care.
1:19:08
And you can just tell that story and just move on.
1:19:11
For, do you know how enterprise ends?
1:19:14
Do you know the, uh,
1:19:15
No, I don't know.
1:19:16
Don't, don't spoil it.
1:19:17
I won't spoil it.
1:19:17
I probably do now because it's, it's been out for so long.
1:19:21
It's a real kick in the balls.
1:19:22
I'll just say that.
1:19:24
Oh, no, I do know that.
1:19:24
That's the, yeah, the holodeck solution of like, never mind.
1:19:27
It was all a dream.
1:19:29
Yeah.
1:19:30
Remember Riker?
1:19:31
Everybody loves Riker.
1:19:33
Um, yeah, it's, it's pretty bad.
1:19:35
Enterprise.
1:19:35
All I remember is that every episode ends with Archer running away from an explosion.
1:19:40
Um, what's his tuck?
1:19:42
What's his name?
1:19:43
He was my favorite.
1:19:44
There's Trip and there's Tuck and there's, and there's
1:19:47
Trip was my favorite.
1:19:48
Good old boy.
1:19:49
He's, he's great.
1:19:51
I like the, I like the making humans a bunch of gremlins is, is I think a fun twist of
1:19:57
just like Vulcan's being like, hi, we can't let you guys anywhere.
1:20:01
Like coming in, being all hoity, toity.
1:20:03
Oh, we're, we're kind of, we're already superior and morally better.
1:20:07
And it's like, that is fun.
1:20:08
It's fun that they're just causing mayhem everywhere.
1:20:10
Enterprises.
1:20:11
It wasn't horrible.
1:20:12
It was not great, but it wasn't what I wanted was the broken, broken Federation
1:20:18
or whatever it was called.
1:20:19
So after DS nine, what was being in the works before nine 11 was set a hundred
1:20:25
years later, and it was after the warp drive broke down.
1:20:28
And this will sound very familiar.
1:20:30
It was going to be based on a freighter ship that was working both as a bunch of
1:20:35
mercenaries, as well as trying to reconnect all of the different Federation worlds.
1:20:40
Because they broke, work technology broke down.
1:20:42
So now you had the shitty, shitty universe where you have to take big long trips and
1:20:46
you have to remap the universe to get around these holes.
1:20:50
And so it was going to have a Romulan Borg alliance where they merged empires that
1:20:56
the Frenky ended up having to like move to another planet or something.
1:21:01
And then the, the Vulcans have totally hold off into isolation, into meditation.
1:21:06
And the crew were basically mercenaries that were also kind of like a cowboy crew.
1:21:11
And that they would be sometimes against breaking the law and not it would be there
1:21:15
to be kind of like bandits.
1:21:16
And the whole idea was to do this.
1:21:17
And I'm reading it.
1:21:19
You can look it up.
1:21:19
You can look up the original design.
1:21:21
You're reading it.
1:21:21
They're like, wait a second.
1:21:22
This was a, this was a, this was the Fox sci-fi that ended up actually coming out.
1:21:27
The one that was set in the south.
1:21:30
Firefly.
1:21:31
Forest.
1:21:31
Yes.
1:21:32
It's fire, firefly.
1:21:33
Yeah, firefly.
1:21:34
Anyway, it got shut down because it was seen as too dark and negative after 9-11.
1:21:42
Oh, 9-11.
1:21:44
Where were you on 9-11?
1:21:47
I was going to school.
1:21:48
I had a big lecture by the principal telling me that there might be enemies among us and
1:21:52
I couldn't help laugh.
1:21:54
Cause I was like, oh yeah, I'm pretty sure.
1:21:56
Sure.
1:21:57
They're here.
1:22:01
Have you ever had a paranormal experience?
1:22:05
Hmm.
1:22:06
Yeah, probably not.
1:22:08
Okay.
1:22:08
Okay.
1:22:10
I've had a lot of prophetic dreams, but I don't count those.
1:22:13
Here.
1:22:14
Oh, are you a lucid dreamer?
1:22:17
Oh yeah, I can.
1:22:19
I don't like lucid dreaming.
1:22:20
It's.
1:22:21
I don't either.
1:22:23
Once I, I became really good at it and everything just seemed so fake to me.
1:22:28
I was like, this sucks.
1:22:29
I was like, I can make this person do whatever I want.
1:22:30
I did not like having all the power, having all the power just made it feel fake and not good.
1:22:35
Yeah.
1:22:36
I don't, I don't really like it.
1:22:38
I had a bunch of fun with it for a bit cause it's like flying is cool.
1:22:41
Even though it's that weird bouncy flying.
1:22:43
I never had the good flying.
1:22:44
I had this sort of like, I have to kind of keep bound, like gravity was weak.
1:22:48
It wasn't like, uh, there's a strange sort of flying.
1:22:50
I could get also up to a lot of speed.
1:22:53
Um, and it was sort of like a hoverboard like experience.
1:22:56
But otherwise, I just, my problem was is that it was like,
1:22:59
my problem was is that, uh, I, I found it really easy to accidentally destabilize dreams and then wake up.
1:23:04
Yeah.
1:23:05
And then you go wet.
1:23:07
Then you're like, ah, fuck it's like three AM.
1:23:09
I need to get back to bed.
1:23:10
Do you, uh, do you take any vitamins?
1:23:13
You seem like, are you into health at all?
1:23:15
Are you in, are you a health?
1:23:17
I, I, I enjoy the sun for about, I have this little device.
1:23:21
Where is it?
1:23:22
Anyway, I got this cool device I got from China.
1:23:24
They have these little UV meters and you can put them on and you can set it to a,
1:23:28
I have to set it to like super pale instead of like ultra pale, like, oh, white, white, white man.
1:23:32
And, uh, I play press the button and it will beep at me when I'm at halfway to sunburn.
1:23:39
And so I can go sunbathe behind this box and I do that for a little bit and let the satellites look at my gaze upon my glory.
1:23:46
And then they goes beep, beep, beep, beep.
1:23:48
And then I'm, I'm, uh, I'm dressed and back in the office and that is my vitamin.
1:23:53
Um,
1:23:54
Okay.
1:23:55
So a lot of time, a lot of nerds out there all into vitamins and like biohacking and stuff.
1:24:02
I feel like I'm going to, I mean, I, I have a whole, I'm an herbalist.
1:24:06
So I have this whole pile of, um, herbs.
1:24:09
I use them either for making liqueurs or teas.
1:24:11
Uh, but I, I think that those sorts of things are to be used to count.
1:24:16
Like I'm dealing with this all this illness.
1:24:19
And so I'm digging into, I have a lot of Chinese herbs for basically treating, um,
1:24:25
the, the, my supporting my immune system and attacking, making it harder for the viruses to reproduce by using different source of antivirals.
1:24:32
One, one that I didn't realize until a few years back is, uh, staranis.
1:24:37
Tamaflu is an extraction of staranis basically.
1:24:40
It's a synthetic staranis.
1:24:41
Anyway, so you can use staranis for, um, as a, just a general antiviral as a protection.
1:24:46
So if you use that with like a Chinese, um, what's known as a Jade windscreen formula, which is a classic protectant.
1:24:53
Uh, you can often stave off illnesses unless your child brings it home, but otherwise it works.
1:24:59
And so that's not by biohacking because I think you shouldn't be taking these things daily.
1:25:03
I think that you should have variety where we're scavenger omnivores.
1:25:09
So that implies that we should be eating a diverse, crazy diet of random shit all the time, which means a daily pill dosage seems to me too nerdy and dumb.
1:25:18
What herbalist texts do you refer to?
1:25:21
Um, let me get them.
1:25:29
Okay.
1:25:30
So.
1:25:33
So right now here's my recommendations.
1:25:35
All right.
1:25:36
All right.
1:25:37
So I think system of correspondences, uh, some correspondences by, uh, uh, Manfred Porcurt or no, it.
1:25:45
Yeah, that's right.
1:25:46
Manfred.
1:25:47
Yeah.
1:25:48
Good old porkey.
1:25:49
Porkey here.
1:25:50
Great book.
1:25:51
Very good text.
1:25:52
It's kind of a big overview.
1:25:54
Um, uh, how this is kind of how you sort of debug is knowing practice, um, which is a sort of ethnography, but it helps me a lot kind of reason through how you think they're Chinese medicine.
1:26:09
And we've got, um, then I am.
1:26:16
And then for a basic grounding of the theory, we have this wonderful text, traditional medicine in contemporary China, which is a helpful balance because contemporary China does not.
1:26:27
Yeah.
1:26:28
Chinese medicine is predominantly a Western invention is kind of a big twist here.
1:26:32
Uh, but there is a sort of unity that occurred to kind of bring back the ancient work and the modern work.
1:26:38
And that's showing up right now in modern China.
1:26:41
And then, uh, there's another nice overview text, um, which is the Western medical tradition.
1:26:48
Sorry, Western medical tradition, because the Western medical tradition actually has a number of really cool ideas in it that, um, like we have our own herbalism.
1:26:57
There's a, it's, it's a wild and wacky.
1:27:00
Um, I also have another one that's in the Egyptian texts of herbalism.
1:27:03
There's a base entirely on dreaming and imagination.
1:27:06
And so they have a ton of like blue lotus is something.
1:27:11
Um, but their idea was, uh, heavily based on the sort of utilizing placebo effects.
1:27:16
So the Egyptians were like super advanced in terms of just utilizing placebo effects to your advantage by using a lot of symbolism and a lot of different tricks to try to get that to work, which is reason why there are magic books and their medicine books and their psychology psychology books are all the same book.
1:27:32
That's because they thought that a lot of illnesses caused by, um, see the fear and anxiety that emerges alongside illness.
1:27:41
I totally agree with that. I think stress and shit is the worst.
1:27:44
Oh yeah. No, they were like the earliest theorists of stress.
1:27:47
And I have some Ayurvedic stuff too, but I can't get it right now.
1:27:50
Oh, that's okay. That's cool.
1:27:52
Uh, are you into witchcraft?
1:27:55
I'm against it.
1:27:57
You're against witchcraft.
1:27:59
I'm against it.
1:28:00
I denounce witchcraft.
1:28:02
Good to know. Good to know.
1:28:04
Um, I think, uh, I think I have like one more question here for you. You don't have to answer this one.
1:28:09
Have you ever done any drugs? Any psychedelics?
1:28:14
I know you drink. I know you're, uh, you imbibe an alcohol, which is definitely a drug.
1:28:20
But other than that, I guess he's, is he pleading?
1:28:23
I plead the fifth.
1:28:24
He's okay.
1:28:26
All right.
1:28:27
Well, I went through all of my list of questions that I had here for you.
1:28:32
Yeah.
1:28:33
This was, so I've, I've got a question.
1:28:36
Sure.
1:28:37
Who in the chat, who in the chat hasn't subscribed to Nick the rat?
1:28:41
Cause I see he's got 12 of a 20 and he's got his goal.
1:28:44
He wants to get to 20.
1:28:45
You got to subscribe.
1:28:46
You also have to subscribe to the newsletter at a D H unplugged.
1:28:50
Yeah, you have to do that.
1:28:52
But I'm, I'm, I'm looking at the Nick the rat number.
1:28:54
I see you got a goal.
1:28:55
You got a golf 20.
1:28:56
You need the cheese.
1:28:57
Who, who in here in the chat has not gotten, gotten him some cheese with my cheese.
1:29:04
That guy is over here.
1:29:06
Yeah.
1:29:07
That's, uh, is, is there anything you'd like to promote or anything?
1:29:14
Um, yeah.
1:29:15
Listen to, uh, D H you listen to, um, if you're, if you're listening to no agenda,
1:29:19
we got to listen to get last few episodes of Adam Curry.
1:29:22
And then we'll have a big, uh, big surprise of what's coming ahead.
1:29:26
We do have things coming up.
1:29:28
There is, this is not the end.
1:29:30
It is, uh, it's just new beginnings.
1:29:33
Is it the, is the week after Adam, uh, done, I free, is he done the 28th, 29th or something?
1:29:39
29th, 29th is last show.
1:29:40
Is, is the next show going to be the next, the next episode or is it going to be,
1:29:45
is it going to be a hiatus?
1:29:46
Is it going to be a wait time or?
1:29:48
I do not believe I have announced yet.
1:29:53
We will be announced.
1:29:54
It is, uh, um, yeah.
1:29:57
Well, I cannot wait to see what you guys do.
1:30:01
Oh, yeah.
1:30:02
All right.
1:30:03
So it looks like a net net has been subscribed for four years.
1:30:07
Yeah.
1:30:08
I gotta give him a rat hat.
1:30:10
I got some loyal listeners in here.
1:30:12
There, uh, this is when I can't get rid of them.
1:30:16
Uh, it's, uh, oh man, wait, X, X, X, XE, what are you doing on here?
1:30:24
I can also, you got, we got, you got people on here that, what are you doing?
1:30:28
I got the phone line open too.
1:30:30
If anybody wants to, if you got like, you got a couple minutes to call in because I
1:30:34
don't know how much time I could, uh, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm going to start turning into
1:30:38
a pumpkin.
1:30:39
Johnny.
1:30:40
So the, this, uh, this AI face is going to fall off.
1:30:44
Are you into, um, generative AI at all?
1:30:47
Do you, do you make movies or anything or?
1:30:49
Uh, yeah.
1:30:50
Um, yeah, I don't have, I, so I was, uh, I was running an Instagram of some notoriety
1:30:57
that was pure gen AI about six years ago.
1:31:00
Really?
1:31:01
Um, yeah, uh, I won't reveal it cause it was a nice like, um, I would say, uh, concept
1:31:08
art was a sort of a, it was a sort of a test.
1:31:11
Very few people caught it was gen AI.
1:31:12
It was just, it kind of made me a little disappointed, but cause I thought it would be picked up,
1:31:17
but it was a painter that was entirely fake.
1:31:19
Wow.
1:31:20
And then, um, I've been playing with the new movie stuff, fall, I, so I use, um, I cut
1:31:27
that at the middleman.
1:31:28
There's a wonderful company called fall.ai, that's FAL.ai.
1:31:32
And you can just pay, give them cash and you can run one of the fastest, cheapest video
1:31:38
models now.
1:31:39
You can get some really great stuff out of it.
1:31:41
And it's much cheaper than if you were to use Higgs field or runway or any of these
1:31:47
other, um, more polished experiences.
1:31:50
But I play with that all the time cause I'm always trying to keep up cause I think we're
1:31:53
almost at the point where we're going to have, uh, anime cause basically like manga cause,
1:31:57
you know, solo, the whole process of making a manga, we're going to have people who are
1:32:02
going to solo an entire anime and they're going to start, it's probably going to be in Japan
1:32:06
because the best gen AI I have seen have all come out of like China and Japan in terms
1:32:11
of like good content, not slop, not like yet another dancing kitten or whatever.
1:32:17
Uh, so I've seen wonderful stuff that are starting to get to the point of not being nauseating
1:32:22
and not being bad.
1:32:23
And I, I'm kind of excited to see what it looks like when we pull down the oversight of anime
1:32:29
one more tier and make it so that you can do us, you can have somebody as goofy as the
1:32:33
guy who does JoJo, uh, bizarre adventures of JoJo, um, and have him just do end to end
1:32:39
a show.
1:32:40
It's going to be, there's going to be some weird terrible stuff.
1:32:42
It'll be great.
1:32:43
So that sounds pretty good.
1:32:45
Um, yeah, it's the only thing I don't like about the generative AI is like it never gives
1:32:50
you what you want at the first time.
1:32:51
So if I'm paying for it, I'm going to be like, oh man.
1:32:54
Oh yeah.
1:32:55
The trick there is that you need to also learn blender.
1:32:57
You also have to learn animation and you have to learn cinematography and then it's easy.
1:33:01
That's why I never understood the artists that get mad at AI because it's like you still
1:33:05
need to be an artist to do it.
1:33:07
Well, you need pacing and stuff.
1:33:09
There will be a day where you can say, Hey, give me an episode of Frasier and I was going
1:33:13
to give you an episode of Frasier where Niles is like a closet furry and he's like big into
1:33:19
foxes or something.
1:33:21
Um, and that'll be okay.
1:33:22
And it'll be fine, but it will not be anything.
1:33:25
It will be like bad fan fiction.
1:33:27
It'll just be like something we've already seen.
1:33:29
And what we'll also see is to the left of all the sludge, we're going to also have people
1:33:35
who are using it to be like cyborgs that have like the capacity to do an entire show, show
1:33:43
run.
1:33:44
And those will be both awful because if people are familiar with Homestuck or other solo
1:33:48
created stuff, those have extremely strong flavors.
1:33:52
They're very, they're very much that one creator.
1:33:55
It's like a Lynch film is a Lynch film or anything made by like Death Stranding by,
1:34:00
you know, that game designer, everything has his flavor on it.
1:34:03
It's very his Kojima.
1:34:05
Uh, and those will also be what we're going to start experiencing in the next few years.
1:34:10
Like we're going to see the return of television probably sooner than you think, but it will
1:34:15
be small TV.
1:34:16
It's going to be user generated on the fly TV.
1:34:19
I see.
1:34:20
No, no, no, it's not going to be that.
1:34:21
It won't be that.
1:34:22
All right.
1:34:23
What we would, Brunetti thinks, Brunetti thinks that he's all like, Oh yeah, you're just going
1:34:27
to be like, yeah, I mean, that's what porn is going to be.
1:34:29
Porn will definitely be that.
1:34:30
Like that's definitely you're going to be, you'll put in your tags and you're going
1:34:34
to get exactly that sort of event repeating.
1:34:38
You'll get a whole goon scroll of whatever that is and that'll be nailed and dialed in.
1:34:44
But for tell storytelling storytelling different than porn.
1:34:48
Yeah.
1:34:49
Goon slop and storytelling are different things.
1:34:53
All right.
1:34:54
Well, John, this was great.
1:34:56
I love talking to you.
1:34:58
I can't wait to, I'm always going to be listening to some DH unplugged.
1:35:02
I can't wait to see what goes on with the new, new agenda.
1:35:04
And thank you for coming on down here and to the sewer.
1:35:07
Yeah.
1:35:08
Thank you for inviting me into the sewer, this dank and the strange box you've put me in.
1:35:14
All right.
1:35:15
My friend, I'm going to hang up on you now, but it was a great talk to you.
1:35:19
All right.
1:35:20
Bye-bye.
1:35:21
Bye-bye.
1:35:22
You too.
1:35:25
Dang.
1:35:27
The great John S. Dvorak everybody.
1:35:30
That was exciting stuff.
1:35:33
I learned a lot of new stuff.
1:35:34
I took, I was taking notes the whole damn time.
1:35:37
He was, he was blowing my, he's, he's, he's like a walk in, walk in book.
1:35:42
He's a gigantic, a gigantic knowledge base.
1:35:47
That guy.
1:35:48
Wow.
1:35:50
I didn't ask him about Art Bell.
1:35:52
I was going to see if he ever listened to Art Bell.
1:35:54
Hey, J.S. if you, if you, J.C. I'm sorry, not J.
1:35:57
If you're still in here and you ever listened to, send me a sign.
1:36:00
All right.
1:36:01
Let's take a quick music break.
1:36:02
We're going to be back and we're going to thank some people and yeah.
1:36:07
Yeah.
1:36:08
We're going to be right back with everybody.
1:36:10
This is Nav Day with Wash It Away.
1:36:12
Stick around for a little bit more.
1:36:19
Wash It Away.
1:36:22
Wash It Away.
1:36:25
Wash It Away.
1:36:35
Hello.
1:36:37
Hey, hey, Nick.
1:36:39
Hi, what's going on?
1:36:41
Oh, fuck.
1:36:43
You already started a song.
1:36:45
Where's J.C.D.?
1:36:47
He already missed him.
1:36:49
It was a very short time.
1:36:51
Stop, Tim, delay.
1:36:53
The song.
1:36:54
Where's J.C.D.?
1:36:56
He already missed him.
1:36:57
He's gone.
1:36:58
It was a very short time.
1:36:59
I'll call back next time.
1:37:02
All right.
1:37:03
Let me be back again.
1:37:04
We'll have him again.
1:37:18
Now you're the rain
1:37:23
on the pain
1:37:43
Wash It Away.
1:37:47
Wash It Away.
1:37:51
Wash It Away.
1:37:55
Wash It Away.
1:38:00
Oh, pour, pour, pour.
1:38:02
Down, down, down.
1:38:04
Pour, pour, pour.
1:38:06
Down, down, down.
1:38:08
You're the rain
1:38:12
on the pain
1:38:15
Wash It Off The Heat.
1:38:21
Quiet on the street.
1:38:24
Let it fall.
1:38:26
Now, now, now.
1:38:28
Fall, fall, fall.
1:38:30
Now, now, now.
1:38:32
You're the rain
1:38:36
on the pain
1:38:38
on the pain
1:38:42
Ah
1:38:48
Hmm
1:38:50
Ah
1:38:56
Hmm
1:38:58
Let it fall.
1:39:01
Let it fall.
1:39:05
Let it fall.
1:39:09
Let it fall.
1:39:13
Wash It Away.
1:39:21
Wash It Away.
1:39:25
Wash It Away.
1:39:29
Wash It Away.
1:39:31
Play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play, play.
1:39:37
This song is about being in the bathroom.
1:39:38
Welcome back everybody.
1:39:39
Hi, how are you doing?
1:39:41
What's going on?
1:39:42
All right, we're gonna thank some people for helping to make, oh no, what is that?
1:39:48
What's going on on my web browser?
1:39:51
There we go, okay, let's open this up.
1:39:53
We're gonna go to, nowhere.
1:39:56
We're just gonna, this doesn't have,
1:40:01
Hold on there a second.
1:40:02
We're gonna thank some people now.
1:40:03
Let's go to the donation segment.
1:40:08
We have a P.O. box here.
1:40:12
Brooklyn, New York.
1:40:14
11209, P.O. box 90549.
1:40:18
This show is a value for value show.
1:40:20
If you like anything that you heard, send me some value.
1:40:23
I like value.
1:40:24
You like value?
1:40:25
We all like value.
1:40:27
All right, let's see what we got in the mail here.
1:40:30
I can only guess.
1:40:33
The smell of it.
1:40:34
I could smell it.
1:40:36
Oh boy.
1:40:38
Think it's a check from my doctor.
1:40:43
Connect account, 69, 69, 69.
1:40:46
Sir Mike Roche, PhD.
1:40:48
Never ate a...
1:40:49
You gotta get these things to come
1:40:52
with different texts, my man.
1:40:54
Never ate a rat, I didn't lick.
1:40:56
GFYS.
1:40:58
GFYS to yourself as well.
1:41:01
$2.69.
1:41:04
No doc, I won't smell your finger.
1:41:07
I know where it's been.
1:41:08
All right, let's see if anybody else has donated.
1:41:11
You gotta go to nicktherat.com slash donate.html.
1:41:16
And if you go there, you could click donate
1:41:21
and send me some money via PayPal.
1:41:25
Let's see if anybody has done that this week.
1:41:29
Where, oh where, is my little PayPal?
1:41:34
Let's see, did we get anything this week?
1:41:36
I also don't dox people.
1:41:38
I read your initials, donation amounts,
1:41:41
and any notes attached.
1:41:43
So if you don't wanna get doxed, donate to me.
1:41:46
Let's see, it looks like we do got two donations here.
1:41:49
We got a 420 from TK.
1:41:53
TK for the 420, thank you so much, my friend.
1:41:56
You rock.
1:41:58
You roll.
1:42:00
You're TK.
1:42:01
Avic.
1:42:02
You've been around for a long time, TK.
1:42:03
Thank you so much for your sustained donations.
1:42:07
They help me do what I do when I do what I do.
1:42:12
We also have another 420 from KR.
1:42:16
KR, thank you for the 420.
1:42:18
You as well.
1:42:20
Rock.
1:42:22
Thank you, KR for the 420.
1:42:25
Let me have a little sip of my tea.
1:42:33
I put a little THC in my tea as well.
1:42:36
He got, John got very quiet when we brought it to the drugs.
1:42:41
He got all these herbalist books and stuff, my man.
1:42:43
Like we know what you're up to.
1:42:45
Herbalism, come on, come on.
1:42:49
And your mom worked at comedy shows and stuff.
1:42:53
Come on.
1:43:00
I wanna talk to Mimi again.
1:43:02
Mimi was so fun to talk to as well.
1:43:06
Wanna, yeah.
1:43:12
I'm gonna have a little bit of my seltzer now.
1:43:16
What's going on, Eric Pee-Pee?
1:43:18
You can also donate by going to twitch.tv slash Nick the Rat.
1:43:23
And you can donate there.
1:43:25
Let's see if anybody has done that.
1:43:27
We had a sub goal that happened nine hours ago.
1:43:29
50% of the way there, everybody.
1:43:31
Yee-haw, get on it.
1:43:33
RC Mouse, resub would prime.
1:43:35
They've been subbed for seven months.
1:43:37
That happened two hours ago.
1:43:39
It's now 7.
1:43:41
We're gonna have a little bit of a break.
1:43:44
It's now Sir RC Mouse.
1:43:48
Sir RC Cola Mouse.
1:43:50
Thank you for the donation there, RC Mouse.
1:43:52
Love ya, love ya, Lil Mouseovich.
1:43:55
You're cool, you're a cool man.
1:43:57
Rats and mice, we get along.
1:43:59
And then the ducks, we got rats, mice and ducks.
1:44:02
We got Ducky on, resub for seven months at tier one.
1:44:07
You've been subbed for 81 months.
1:44:09
Heck yeah.
1:44:11
That's what I'm talking about.
1:44:13
That's my ducks.
1:44:15
That's my ducks out there, baby.
1:44:17
We also have Dr. Sir Mike Rachevich coming in.
1:44:20
Hot and sweaty and steamy.
1:44:23
He resubbed with his prime.
1:44:25
They've been subbed for 34 months.
1:44:27
One hour ago.
1:44:29
33 plus one anniversary on Twitch.
1:44:31
Thank you so much.
1:44:33
And then we also have a newcomer here.
1:44:35
Let me try to pronounce this one.
1:44:37
Ison?
1:44:39
Is it Ison?
1:44:41
I'm going to guess Ison.
1:44:43
One hour ago, subscribed with prime.
1:44:45
I-Y-X-O-N.
1:44:47
I think that's Ison.
1:44:49
I don't know how to say your name, my friend.
1:44:51
I tried.
1:44:53
Is that L?
1:44:55
Is that Lizaun?
1:44:57
Lixon?
1:44:59
No, it's an I, though.
1:45:01
It is an I.
1:45:03
I'm not sure.
1:45:05
It's an I, though.
1:45:07
It is, because in the chat it looks like a bit.
1:45:09
Okay.
1:45:11
No, it's definitely an I.
1:45:13
I'm just going blind.
1:45:15
Nick Thrat is going blind.
1:45:19
Wild.
1:45:21
It's probably because I've been shooting Ozenpik up my butt.
1:45:23
I-Y-X-O-N.
1:45:25
That's how I'm going to guess Ison.
1:45:27
Around.
1:45:29
Like Exon.
1:45:31
It's like Exon, but from Oaktar.
1:45:33
That's probably...
1:45:35
probably not far from the truth.
1:45:37
Well, those are all the donations for this week.
1:45:39
I just want to say thank you to everybody
1:45:41
for the donations.
1:45:43
They make me smile.
1:45:45
They keep me drinking
1:45:47
seltzer water.
1:45:49
Nice fresh seltzer water from the can.
1:45:51
Let's go back
1:45:53
to some more music.
1:45:55
Tonight we have
1:45:57
another special song for everybody here.
1:45:59
It's called
1:46:01
Big Foot Beats with
1:46:03
Rat Race.
1:46:05
We'll be right back with more
1:46:07
Nick the Rat Radio.
1:46:09
Nick the Rat Radio.
1:46:39
Master Race!
1:47:09
Music.
1:47:39
Music.
1:47:57
Welcome back everybody.
1:47:59
I was going to say Wild Stuffer Good, but I'm not going to.
1:48:01
Music.
1:48:03
Let's talk about some junk I've done this week.
1:48:05
Some stuff that I've watched.
1:48:07
Things that I would say to avoid.
1:48:09
What the hell is this?
1:48:11
It was so bad I totally forgot the name of the show already.
1:48:13
It's something about a
1:48:15
wave
1:48:17
that people living in a dome.
1:48:19
It's not the dome show.
1:48:21
It's not the dome show.
1:48:23
I already forget the...
1:48:25
And there's a black guy
1:48:27
he talks.
1:48:29
He just talks monotone.
1:48:31
Constantly monotone talk on this guy.
1:48:33
I could not watch the show.
1:48:35
It was so bad I don't remember the name.
1:48:37
That doesn't help you though.
1:48:39
Because how are you going to
1:48:41
know what not to watch?
1:48:45
Maybe the hello caller.
1:48:47
You're on the air with Nick the Rat Radio.
1:48:49
Nick the Rat, I want this to be the most
1:48:51
Christopher Walken
1:48:53
ask
1:48:55
call that you ever had.
1:48:57
What do you want to talk about?
1:48:59
We could talk about
1:49:01
whatever
1:49:03
you want to talk about.
1:49:05
I want to talk about
1:49:07
whatever you want to talk about.
1:49:09
Let's talk about dogs.
1:49:11
In my mind
1:49:13
if you want to talk about dogs
1:49:15
we will talk about dogs.
1:49:17
Which favorite dog?
1:49:19
My favorite dog
1:49:21
or your favorite dog?
1:49:23
Do you want me to name
1:49:25
your favorite dog?
1:49:27
It's my magical power.
1:49:29
I will name your favorite dog for you.
1:49:33
If you know my favorite dog
1:49:35
I will send you pictures of my feet.
1:49:41
Your favorite dog is a sewer spaniel.
1:49:43
Very close.
1:49:45
Very close.
1:49:47
Maybe I'm just saying that because
1:49:49
I don't want to send you pictures of my feet.
1:49:51
I knew I nailed it
1:49:53
first time.
1:49:55
First time when I nailed it.
1:49:57
When I nailed it.
1:49:59
You first time.
1:50:01
Paradise.
1:50:03
The show is called Paradise.
1:50:05
I knew you would help me figure it out.
1:50:07
Paradise.
1:50:09
That's an interesting show right there.
1:50:11
Wait.
1:50:13
You've seen it?
1:50:15
That's an interesting show.
1:50:17
You're talking about Paradise?
1:50:19
I did not like it at all.
1:50:21
Paradise is the show you're talking about right now?
1:50:23
I'm talking about Paradise right now.
1:50:25
I did not like Paradise.
1:50:27
Paradise right now?
1:50:29
I have no idea what that show is.
1:50:31
Tell me what that show is.
1:50:33
It's about some dude.
1:50:35
The donut lord is the president
1:50:37
and he is shot.
1:50:39
They go into a dome
1:50:41
because there is a tidal wave coming.
1:50:43
There is an artificial.
1:50:45
It was dumb.
1:50:47
You've got to stop right there.
1:50:49
The show sounds bad.
1:50:51
It shows something bad from get go.
1:50:53
Right there.
1:50:55
You explained it? It's bad.
1:50:57
It was definitely one of the worst shows.
1:50:59
I've never watched.
1:51:01
I stopped at the worst ever.
1:51:03
That show is bad.
1:51:05
I've been watching a...
1:51:07
Hey.
1:51:09
Yeah?
1:51:11
If you're ever a sewer creature,
1:51:13
what sewer creature would you be?
1:51:15
I want to be
1:51:19
a unicorn.
1:51:21
You're wrong.
1:51:23
You're a rat.
1:51:25
But I'm already a rat.
1:51:29
If I wanted to be a rat,
1:51:31
I would just wait open my eyes.
1:51:33
Sir.
1:51:35
You got it twisted.
1:51:37
You got it backwards.
1:51:39
You got it backwards.
1:51:41
You got it backwards.
1:51:43
You got it backwards.
1:51:45
You got it backwards.
1:51:47
You got it backwards.
1:51:49
You got it backwards.
1:51:51
Christopher Walken called the show.
1:51:53
I had John S. Dvorak on.
1:51:55
I'm going places.
1:51:57
Pop my collar.
1:51:59
There we go.
1:52:01
Yeah, everybody.
1:52:03
We're back on the air.
1:52:05
We're live. We're streaming.
1:52:07
We're talking about bad TV show.
1:52:09
Well,
1:52:11
I've been watching more Carrie.
1:52:13
It's not been horrible.
1:52:15
The Carrie show is pretty
1:52:17
decent so far.
1:52:19
There was a really dumb part of the show.
1:52:21
It also makes me mad.
1:52:23
There's a lot of things that make you mad.
1:52:25
It's got the annoying teenage girls in it.
1:52:27
There was one scene
1:52:29
late in the season, like episode
1:52:31
6 or 7.
1:52:33
I'll give a little spoiler.
1:52:35
Because
1:52:37
I don't care.
1:52:39
And it's not really a major spoiler.
1:52:41
There's a school
1:52:43
and there's a bunch of kids
1:52:45
protesting outside of the school.
1:52:47
And
1:52:49
they go from cheering on
1:52:51
anti-bullying.
1:52:53
They're like, yeah,
1:52:55
don't be, no bullies here.
1:52:57
Yeah. And then the next second
1:52:59
it's like
1:53:01
everybody
1:53:03
is kung fu fighting.
1:53:05
Every protester
1:53:07
is punching and kicking and throwing stuff.
1:53:09
Right after they were just having a chant
1:53:11
about no bullying in school
1:53:13
and all the people
1:53:15
in the protest seem to be on the same side.
1:53:17
It was very
1:53:19
it was a very odd choice.
1:53:21
That's all I could say
1:53:23
about that.
1:53:25
But the rest of the show has been pretty good.
1:53:27
You know what you're getting into.
1:53:29
It's
1:53:31
Psychic Girl
1:53:33
and verse bully girls.
1:53:35
And
1:53:37
yeah, that's pretty good.
1:53:39
Where am I watching these awful shows?
1:53:41
That awful show
1:53:45
is on Amazon Prime.
1:53:47
Carrie's on Amazon Prime.
1:53:49
The
1:53:51
The Wichita McCulloch show, the Paradise
1:53:53
show is on
1:53:55
Hulu.
1:53:57
Hulu is
1:53:59
Hulu's got Paradise in his bed.
1:54:01
Amazon Prime has Carrie
1:54:03
and Carrie is not bad.
1:54:05
I've been liking Carrie.
1:54:07
So there is that.
1:54:09
It started off a little bit.
1:54:11
At first I didn't want to watch it.
1:54:13
And then I was like
1:54:15
ehhhhh
1:54:17
ehhhhh
1:54:19
ehhhhh
1:54:21
And now that this weekend
1:54:23
this week coming, I have to decide
1:54:25
if I'm going to give Shutter
1:54:27
money so I can watch
1:54:29
the final Joe Bob episode.
1:54:31
He's doing a Halloween
1:54:33
Hootenanny Get Together thing this Friday
1:54:35
coming. So I'm thinking that
1:54:37
I might subscribe back to Shutter for this
1:54:39
because I love me a little bit of Joe Bob
1:54:41
even though
1:54:43
even though Shutter
1:54:45
sucks big donkey
1:54:47
balls for canceling a show
1:54:49
the only reason people signed up
1:54:51
with Shutter mostly was because
1:54:53
of Joe Bob.
1:54:55
And their service was nice
1:54:57
and cheap. It was like five bucks a month.
1:54:59
I think their
1:55:01
the hell does Shutter cost these days?
1:55:03
Shutter
1:55:05
cost
1:55:07
what a month.
1:55:09
Your soul, it's your soul.
1:55:11
Uh
1:55:13
Let's see. Monthly
1:55:15
premium without ads is 10 bucks.
1:55:17
If you want ads
1:55:19
it's 8 bucks.
1:55:21
Started off at 5 bucks.
1:55:23
Ugh
1:55:25
These guys are just stealing
1:55:27
our money. They're
1:55:29
stealing our money.
1:55:31
These sons of
1:55:33
bitches
1:55:35
I'm probably gonna sign up
1:55:37
and just watch it whatever
1:55:39
I'm willing to spend 10 bucks
1:55:41
for my man Joe
1:55:43
and then I'm gonna cancel it the next day
1:55:45
and just be like fuck you guys
1:55:47
you gotta suck
1:55:49
suck a fat one
1:55:51
bastards
1:55:53
Yeah man. Next week on
1:55:55
Nick the Rat Radio I'm probably gonna be
1:55:57
carving a pumpkin. So if you're into
1:55:59
that
1:56:01
if you want to listen to the
1:56:03
smooth sounds of a
1:56:05
jagged knife going through
1:56:07
the flesh
1:56:09
of a gourd
1:56:11
you definitely want to tune into Nick the Rat Radio
1:56:13
next week
1:56:15
It's not gonna be as exciting as this week was
1:56:17
I'll say that this week was
1:56:19
pretty exciting
1:56:21
um jagged
1:56:23
Yeah you gotta use the jagged knife
1:56:25
the pumpkin knife
1:56:27
little dimples and dots
1:56:29
and shite on it
1:56:31
and use a flat blade
1:56:33
the flat blade doesn't cut it
1:56:37
You need the jackety jacks
1:56:39
um
1:56:41
I'm gonna go through my notes here
1:56:43
I probably got some stuff
1:56:45
Do we have any news
1:56:47
in the
1:56:49
in the news thingamajiggy
1:56:51
let me see here
1:56:53
Keeps. No I use Google
1:56:55
Keep. There we go
1:56:57
Let's see
1:56:59
intro to M.C.P
1:57:01
from
1:57:03
Eli the Computer Guy
1:57:05
No that's not in the news
1:57:07
13 of the most haunted places in America
1:57:09
Ranked
1:57:11
Alright
1:57:13
Let's see that
1:57:15
One of these
1:57:17
13
1:57:19
most haunted places
1:57:21
Let's get this on the screen here
1:57:23
so everybody can
1:57:25
follow along this is on CountryLiving.com
1:57:29
That's when you know you're in the right place
1:57:31
uh close that
1:57:33
Ghost stories
1:57:35
eerie hallways and things that go
1:57:37
bump in the night
1:57:39
These 13 haunted places
1:57:41
across America
1:57:43
top the list for real life scares
1:57:45
Think you could handle number one
1:57:47
Let's just
1:57:49
skip to number one
1:57:51
13
1:57:53
I'm just going to read everything and then number one
1:57:55
I'll give you a little background maybe
1:57:57
13
1:57:59
There's the Peyton Randolph House in Williamsburg, Virginia
1:58:01
Number 12
1:58:03
Winchester Mystery House in San Jose, California
1:58:05
Number 11
1:58:07
We got the White House
1:58:09
in D.C.
1:58:11
Number 10 we have St. Augustine Lighthouse
1:58:13
in St. Augustine, Florida
1:58:15
Number 9 we have the
1:58:17
historic Lizzie Borden House
1:58:19
in Wall River, Massachusetts
1:58:21
That's another horrible show
1:58:23
I caught a couple scenes
1:58:25
of Lizzie Borden, the new one
1:58:27
That is
1:58:29
laughily
1:58:31
laughily bad. I don't know if that was supposed to be
1:58:33
a comedy or
1:58:35
what they were thinking when they made it but
1:58:37
the new Lizzie Borden
1:58:39
show is no bueno
1:58:41
Number 8 we got the Ohio State
1:58:43
Reformatory
1:58:45
in Mansfield, Ohio
1:58:47
Number 7 Crescent Hotel in Eureka Springs, Arkansas
1:58:49
Is there anything in New York?
1:58:51
We got the LaLaurie
1:58:53
Mansion in New Orleans, Louisiana
1:58:55
I've been past that place
1:58:57
I love Louisiana
1:58:59
New Orleans. I want to go back there
1:59:01
Yeah, I've been
1:59:03
to that place. It was kind of creepy outside but
1:59:05
Oh
1:59:07
we got number 5 the Amityville
1:59:09
Horror House in Amityville, New York
1:59:13
I don't want to, it's just like going to
1:59:15
the outside of the house
1:59:17
Where is that on the map?
1:59:21
I want to see where it is on the map
1:59:23
Let's go to maps
1:59:25
maps
1:59:27
maps
1:59:29
Go to Google maps
1:59:31
Just type in
1:59:35
Amityville Horror House
1:59:37
in Amityville
1:59:39
That doesn't come up
1:59:41
on Google maps
1:59:43
Oh wait, is that it?
1:59:45
No, that's not it
1:59:47
Where is Amityville?
1:59:49
Amityville, New York
1:59:53
Alright, so that's out on
1:59:55
Long Island? Long Island
1:59:59
Is that where it is though?
2:00:03
Where's the
2:00:05
Amityville
2:00:07
House on
2:00:09
Google maps? That's the stupidest
2:00:11
question I ever asked
2:00:15
Oh, here we go
2:00:17
Oh, really? It's just
2:00:19
like a house. It's just like a house
2:00:25
Whatever, it's, yeah
2:00:27
There it is
2:00:29
Amityville, New York, 11701
2:00:31
I'm not even living there. People just
2:00:33
walking past your house taking pictures all the damn time
2:00:37
It's midnight in the sewer everybody
2:00:39
Oh my goodness, I almost missed it
2:00:41
Holy crap
2:00:43
Thank you, Radix
2:00:45
Let's see, we got
2:00:47
NetNed guessing that
2:00:49
Eloise Asylum as being number one
2:00:51
Let's go back to the list here
2:00:53
Amityville, number five, number four
2:00:55
is the RMS Queen Mary
2:00:57
in Long Beach, California
2:00:59
a lot of California stuff
2:01:01
Number three, Eastern State Penitentiary
2:01:03
in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
2:01:05
That looks pretty spooky
2:01:07
Going to a closed down
2:01:11
jail, that'd be fun
2:01:13
See the thing, like, I went to Alcatraz
2:01:15
and
2:01:17
Alcatraz would be spooky
2:01:19
if it wasn't like filled with people
2:01:21
and tour guides and stuff
2:01:23
Anywhere could be spooky
2:01:25
if you're by yourself
2:01:27
So as long as you're in a place alone
2:01:29
it's pretty damn spooky
2:01:31
But if there's tour guides walking around
2:01:33
and kids with
2:01:35
balloons and shit, then it loses
2:01:37
it loses the horror to it
2:01:39
Number two, Trans-Alagny
2:01:43
Trans-Alagny
2:01:45
Lunatic Asylum in
2:01:47
Westin, West Virginia
2:01:51
Alright, and number one
2:01:53
You were wrong, you were wrong
2:01:55
NetNed, number one is the Stanley
2:01:57
Hotel in Estes Park, Colorado
2:02:01
Oh, that's the
2:02:03
the Shining Place?
2:02:05
Well, that's the
2:02:07
the movie was haunted, not the real place
2:02:09
The Stanley Hotel is a must visit
2:02:11
for those who love the Shining Book
2:02:13
This is, that's
2:02:15
that's
2:02:17
Come on
2:02:19
Is it really haunted?
2:02:25
Or is it just fun to go there
2:02:27
because of the darn books in the movies?
2:02:29
Anyway
2:02:31
Let's listen to another song here
2:02:33
and
2:02:37
then I think we're
2:02:39
you know, I think we're just gonna get out of here now
2:02:41
I don't really have anything else to talk about
2:02:43
I talked about all the crappy TV shows that I saw
2:02:45
um
2:02:47
I talked to John
2:02:49
That was cool
2:02:51
I want to hear him talk more about
2:02:53
the Shining Place
2:02:55
Shining Place
2:02:57
I want to hear him talk more about
2:02:59
stuff
2:03:01
He could probably talk about a lot of just stuff
2:03:05
I want him to talk to me about
2:03:07
Chinese medicine some more
2:03:11
That'd be cool
2:03:13
Anyway, let's get out of here tonight
2:03:15
We'll be back next week
2:03:17
with more Nick the Rat Radio
2:03:19
I'm gonna be carving a Halloween pumpkin
2:03:21
We might do other stuff too
2:03:23
I'll have something else planned
2:03:25
but this was a nice laid back
2:03:27
I haven't done an interview in a long time
2:03:29
It was good
2:03:31
It was good
2:03:33
But thanks for everybody for hanging out
2:03:35
and partying in the sewer with us
2:03:39
Don't forget to check out
2:03:41
the DH Unplugged
2:03:43
and the
2:03:45
I'm excited to see what happens with
2:03:47
No Agenda
2:03:49
There was a lot of
2:03:51
Who knows what's gonna happen
2:03:53
I think the last episode that Adam does
2:03:55
is gonna be with Horowitz as well
2:03:57
I'm definitely gonna tune into that
2:03:59
I gotta
2:04:01
submit some art for it
2:04:05
I should ask him if he ever
2:04:07
did any art for
2:04:09
No Agenda
2:04:11
Anyway, Dr. Simba Crotch
2:04:13
I don't know what L-Y-G-N is
2:04:15
Looks
2:04:17
Lick your
2:04:19
gonads
2:04:21
Is that what that stands for?
2:04:27
I don't know
2:04:29
Yeah man, No Agenda is gonna be
2:04:31
me asking
2:04:33
JC if he's ever done drugs
2:04:35
Just constantly, hey man
2:04:37
You do any of those drugs, man?
2:04:39
He doesn't even do vitamins
2:04:41
I don't think he's probably
2:04:43
He probably just drinks and that's it
2:04:45
He's probably never even
2:04:47
poked smart
2:04:49
He seems like such a nice
2:04:51
clean boy
2:04:53
He's a cool dude
2:04:55
Hopefully one day
2:04:57
I'll get to play some board games with him
2:04:59
I'll show him
2:05:01
Sons of Anarchy the board game
2:05:03
That'd be good
2:05:05
Dude, drugs John
2:05:07
You're gonna do drugs
2:05:09
I'm gonna make you do the drugs
2:05:11
Alright everybody
2:05:13
Peace out, sauerkraut
2:05:15
I'll see you guys next week
2:05:17
Hopefully we got torch
2:05:19
Caz with ghostly residents
2:05:21
Coming up next
2:05:23
Also all the music is CC
2:05:25
by 3.0
2:05:27
All found on SoundCloud
2:05:29
Slash, like, slash, Nick the Rat
2:05:31
Spooky seasons
2:05:33
in full effect
2:05:35
John S. Dvorak
2:05:37
Where the S stands for
2:05:39
Spooky
2:05:43
Good night everybody
2:05:45
See you next week
2:06:15
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