Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Carry On: Exploring the Discography of Kansas [Episode 214]

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Carry On: Exploring the Discography of Kansas [Episode 214] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We're totally bummed in rock and roll. I mean gotta
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: leave you. You're reading Little Hans says, it's time to
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: rock and roll. Roll up a totally booked.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to Booked on Rock, the podcast for those
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: about to read and rock. Find the podcast at booked
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: on rock dot com. Every episode of Booked on Rock
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: there in both audio and video, exclusive video segments from
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: each episode and the latest rockbook releases. Also make sure
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: you check out the Booked on Rock YouTube channel at
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Booked on Rock. Author Tim Durling is back this time.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: He's here to talk about his brand new book, Let
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: It Be Your Guide, The Kansas Album Review. Kansas rose
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  Speaker 2: to fame by the mid seventies with hit singles carry On, Wayward, Sun,
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  Speaker 2: dustin the Wind, and Point of No Return. They produced
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  Speaker 2: nine gold albums, three multi platinum albums, one platinum studio album,
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  Speaker 2: and a platinum selling live double album. With the help
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: of no less than thirty Kansas super fans, Tim guides
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: us through the body of work created by a band
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: who's been rocking for fifty years. And we'll talk about
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: the book right now. Got a playlist of Kansas songs.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: You can find that on the show notes page. Hey Tim,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: welcome back to the podcast.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Thanks Eric, thanks for having me back on again.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: It's pleasure to cover this band. To cover any band
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  Speaker 2: the right way, you got to bring together people who
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: know their stuff about the band, and you sure did that.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Tell us who you talked to for the book, And
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: what exactly is a wheaedhead.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess wheatheads are same as you know, Sammy
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Hagar's fans are called redheads, you know, piple Dead, deadheads, Treky's.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: It's just a nickname for Kansas fans. You know they're
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: from Kansas. A lot of wheat all.
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  Speaker 2: Right, And you talked to over thirty whaheads right for
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: this book.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I found a lot of them. Well, you know,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I did find a lot of them, but honestly, Eric,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: it took me some time, and it's one of the
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: things that further reinforced why this band needs talked about more,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: because I had a really hard time finding enough people
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: that could really speak to the band passionately and weren't.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: And I'm not I'm not saying there's anything wrong with
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: this because everybody likes different things. But I ran into
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of well, I've got the best of I
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: really don't know much about them. I needed more so
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: people that knew the catalog inside and out. So I've
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: done enough episodes of my own and on the Contrarians
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: and on Sea of Tranquility, so I knew that I
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: had a base to choose from. And if I met
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: one fan, I'd ask them if they knew any others
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: and that would lead to you know what I ended
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: up with. But yeah, great assortment of people anywhere, from
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: people that got into the band almost as soon as
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: they started to people that just got into them a
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: few years ago. I didn't discriminate because we can all
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: hear a piece of music and then give our thoughts
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: on it, right, And sometimes someone that's just newly introduced
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: to an album may pick up things that someone has
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: listened to it for forty years. I never noticed that before,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I got a great crew here.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, it was great going back listening to
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: these albums, hearing songs that I never heard before because
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: I'm like I am that Kansas fan. I know the hits,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: but I needed to know more about the band, So
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: listening to the songs that I knew of and just
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: enjoying those all over again and then discovering songs. Can
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I tell you which I think is their first single.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: And that's a special song in their career.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, Portrait the Wall just looking through because
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: I put together a playlist for this episode, I carous,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: which I had known about. But it's just great to
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: hear song from America, is I mean, you know that
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: that is just epic. So so it was just great
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: to listen to all these songs again and get people's
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  Speaker 2: input and the stories behind the songs all that stuff.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: So it was a lot of fun. And this is
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  Speaker 2: what you write in the introduction Kansas. They're a little
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  Speaker 2: bit prague, a dash of boogie, a hint of aor
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  Speaker 2: a smidgeon of hard rock and all excellence. But we're
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  Speaker 2: not talking about a band that's from a world, that
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  Speaker 2: part of the world that churns out multiplatinum selling bands, right,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, this is talk about where they're from, and
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: specifically in Kansas, where they're from, and how did they
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  Speaker 2: end up landing a major record deal.
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  Speaker 1: Well, so, yeah, they came from like one of the
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  Speaker 1: most unlikely places to come out of you know, in
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  Speaker 1: the early seventies. I think I think they were based
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  Speaker 1: in Topeka and Kansas was not a hotbed of anything.
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  Speaker 1: You know, It's not like New York or Detroit or
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: la There was no scene there. But that doesn't mean
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  Speaker 1: that you didn't have a lot of young musicians, you know,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: listening to the radio and buying the same records and
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: being fired up about making music, making their own music.
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  Speaker 1: So I think the combination of where they came from
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: and the fact that they did have this affinity for
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: everything from blues to early prog rock to a little
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: bit of everything, it all informed their sound when they
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: first started, and I don't think it's a sound that
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  Speaker 1: could have come out of anywhere else. There is something
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  Speaker 1: intrinsically American about Kansas as far as the classic prog
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: bands go. A lot of it is the fact, you know,
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  Speaker 1: you had Robbie Steinhardt's violin. It gave it that down
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: home kind of feel to it. But at the same time,
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  Speaker 1: when they were progue, they were as progue as anyone.
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  Speaker 1: They could do the extended solos, the strange time signatures.
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  Speaker 1: They're really complex riffs and passages that you know you
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: just boggle or you know, how do you And then
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: you see that early live footage have been playing and
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: they're so tight and they're just on it, and you're like,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: how do you get that good?
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right from the get go. Yeah. Yeah. Well that's
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: what's interesting too, is you think about all these hits
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: carry On wayward Son, Dust and the Win Point of
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: No Return, and you think, well, these must have come
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: from the first album, second album, not the case first
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: two albums. It's a band that's on fire, but they
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: don't have any hits until the third album, which is
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: the album. Oh, you're right, they had.
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  Speaker 1: They had. I mean, they had two albums out seventy five,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: so they're really they're just pumping them out. But yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it wasn't until Left Overture when they had Carrie on
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: wiward Son and you know, it was a make or break.
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  Speaker 1: But go back and listen to those first three albums
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  Speaker 1: and no, there aren't really any obvious singles, but the
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: musicianship and there's still melody. There's still plenty of melodies.
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  Speaker 1: You just shake your head and go, man, these guys
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  Speaker 1: were just amazing. And I love the fact that they
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: went through all of these different phases, Like I love
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: their eighties sound, you know, I love the fact they
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: had an a r period and the last two albums
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  Speaker 1: that they've put out in twenty sixteen and twenty twenty
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  Speaker 1: or two of their best ever. So it doesn't matter
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  Speaker 1: who's been in the band, They've always been a high
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  Speaker 1: level of you know, they've never really phoned in an album,
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  Speaker 1: and I think it's important for people to know this
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  Speaker 1: isn't a band that had a few albums out in
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  Speaker 1: the seventies and then went away or are just playing
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  Speaker 1: the circuit playing the old seventy stuff. That is just
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: not the case. This is a rich catalog of music
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  Speaker 1: and it deserves I wanted to give just as much
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  Speaker 1: time to the independently released albums as I did to
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  Speaker 1: the major label albums that sold millions.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Which you did. Yeah. Absolutely. We mentioned the song can
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  Speaker 2: I Tell You So? That's the song that gets the
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: attention of Don Kirshner. And that's a question that you
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  Speaker 2: posed to the panel. It's regarding that song. What is
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: it that Kershner heard in that song that got his attention?
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  Speaker 2: What do you think?
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  Speaker 1: You know, the violin was a little different. There were
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  Speaker 1: bands that were using violin, there weren't a lot of them.
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  Speaker 1: It definitely wasn't your average you know, you're putting a
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  Speaker 1: rock band together and said, Okay, we need a guitar player,
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  Speaker 1: maybe a couple of guitar players. We need a bass player, drummer, singer.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe we need a keyboard player. Oh and we got
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: to have a violin player. You know, that's not always
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: an instrument that would be like a main instrum. It's
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: not like, oh, you play a little violin. We might
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  Speaker 1: need that for a song or two, but not woven
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  Speaker 1: into the arrangements of the songs. So I think maybe
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  Speaker 1: he heard something. I think he just heard something different.
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  Speaker 1: But in my mind that song is one of their
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  Speaker 1: simpler and I say that with an asterisk tunes from
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  Speaker 1: that period because it was kind of straightforward compared to
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  Speaker 1: some of the stuff that was on the first album
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  Speaker 1: and some of the stuff that Kerrie Livgren had been
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: writing beforehand. What's significant, But what can I tell you? It's
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  Speaker 1: not a Carrie Livgren Penn song, which is interesting because
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: he wrote a lot of their early material himself. And
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: it's interesting that Don Kirshner took an interest in them.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I think that's just one of those wonderful coincidences, because
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is the guy that you know, the
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Monkeys and the ARCHIESE. This is not someone you'd think
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: would have an eye or an ear towards prog rock
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: and I would recommend for anybody that wants that full story. Yes,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: I think you should buy the book. That would be fantastic.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: But they did a documentary in twenty fifteen called Miracles
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: out of Nowhere and it basically chronicles their career from
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  Speaker 1: the beginning through nineteen seventy seven, very very well explained
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: how they got signed and Kirshner, you know, having that
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: clout in the industry, he had his like a vanity
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: label or a label named after him that was distributed
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: by CBS. That's how Kansas ended up on CBS.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: And a lot of people may be familiar with him
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: through his TV show, Don Kirshner's Rock Concert. That was
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: a faist show, well known.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Very important show in exposing groups that wouldn't otherwise be
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: on mainstream TV. And much like when you hear people
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: that grew up in the UK talk about the old
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Gray Whistle Test, I think that Don Kirshner's Rock Concert
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: served the same purpose as did shows like the Midnight Special.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: There was a question you brought up in the book
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I think, and I wonder how much Jeff Rotel had
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: to do with his discovery of Kansas. And what I
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: mean by that is, by that time, Akualog had been
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: a huge hit, and I think think as a Brick
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: came out after that as well. And so we have
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: jethro Tell Now this band who's taking an instrument like
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: the flute and incorporating into rock and roll and it's working.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Was maybe he looking for the American jeffro Tell so
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: with the violin instead of I think.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: There's a possibility that he said, you know what, whether
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: or not I understand it, you've got Jeff ro Tal. Yes,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: we're huge. At the time, Genesis were making inroads. They
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: weren't gold platinum selling at this point, but they were
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: making inroads and they were doing well on the road,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: and I think maybe he thought, there's no American group
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: like this. Wouldn't it be cool if I had the
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: first one?
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I'm sure that's what was going through his head. Yeah,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: And the lead track, Can I Tell You is the
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: lead track from the first album, So the song from
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: America is the follow up. And this is where we
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: see that icon of Kansas logo on the cover.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite logos.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great, great logo. The title track is one of
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: my favorites. And there's a great piece of trivy behind
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: where this song was written. Right, Is this the one
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: that was written on an airplane?
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Kerry Livgren supposedly conceived this entire song while he was
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: on an airplane and just looking over America. But this
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: is a nine minute song with plenty of tempo changes
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: and mood changes and chord changes. And the fact that
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: he was able to come up with that in his head,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: he must have been able to write out music and
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: had something, you know, so that when he got somewhere
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: near a recording studio or a tape recorder, he could
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: get his ideas down. And I always joke about this,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: and I say this in a fan loving kind of way,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: but I've heard that Paul Stanley wrote love Gun on
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: a plane, and that's one of my favorite songs. But
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: that's a little bit different than writing song for America. Like,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: that's a lot to remember. I think Carry Livgren was
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: just one of these quiet geniuses and he just very
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: you know, he had these ideas and it's like in
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: that documentary I mentioned, you hear these different songs coming
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: out of this guy, and it's just like I'm just
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: sitting next to a meeting a burger. It's just Carrie.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: He's got a big brain and he's got these ideas
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: for these songs that just don't sound like anybody else.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing. And that is one of the most
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: complex songs. I'm not sure pound for pound if it's
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: their most complex song, but it's pretty complicated song to
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: think of when you're on a plane without a guitar,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: without a microphone, without a tape recorder, without anything to
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: document where things are going to happen, and it's pretty amazing.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, the playlist of all these songs you
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: can find on the show notes page. People should go
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: and check it out and listen to that song. It's
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: one of my top favorites. I would say Point of
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: No Return is one, definitely win two. Maybe that one
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: is three. That might be number three. And Kerry Livgren,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: by the way, was the keyboardists. We should mention what
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: the lineup was in those early years, right, So we
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: have Steve Walsh lead vocals.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Kerry Livgren played keyboards, he played guitar, he played
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: I think he could play a multiple of multitude of instruments,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: and he composed on a multitude of instruments. Steve Walsh
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: was the lead singer, but he also played really good keyboards.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: He was a great Oregon player. A lot of them
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: were multitaskers. The two guys that are in the band
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: that started recording that are still in the band now
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: are Richard Williams, who's the guitar player. He's guitar player
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: with the eye patch. Phil Lee Hart on drums, very
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: very underrated, overlooked drummer. He's one of the finest, you know,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: classic rock drummers ever. And then you had Dave Hope
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: on bass, and his bass lines were really, really good
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: and really integral to the songs. He doesn't get enough credit.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I think that's generally across the board. They don't get
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: enough credit. Robbie Steinhardt had the violin, but he also
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: co sang with Steve Walsh, and Robbie had kind of
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: a huskier, deeper voice, but it was perfect for the
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: songs that he did the lead parts on. And Steve
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Walsh is just one of the greatest vocalists ever. I mean,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: millions and millions of people have enjoyed Wayward Son and
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: dust in the wind. That's quite a voice. Well, there's
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: a name behind that voice and people need to know
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: who it is and also what else he's done. So yeah,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: the original six piece lineup of Kansas were you know,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: that was the lineup that was together from seventy four
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: through nineteen eighty and in that time they did I
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: think seven albums, seven studio albums and a live album
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: and they were very prolific.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: And his story with Kansas is interesting because he left,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: he came back reminds me of Bobby Kimball with Toto
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Best left Ken.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: There's some similarities there. He came back and he brought
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: their new bass player with them, Billy, because the two
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: of them were in a band called Streets from eighty
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: three to eighty five. They had a couple of albums
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: on and Atlantic Records, and Billy's been with the band
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: ever since, you know, since nineteen eighty five or ninety six.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: That third album Mask from seventy five. You asked the
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: panel if there was any connection to the songs with
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: that album title, and it was a great response from
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Peter Jones. First, what is the meaning of the word
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: mask and do you recall what Peter's thoughts were on that.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, Peter is a great a great panelist. He's a drummer,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: he's a musician in his own right, so he knows
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: what he's talking about. And you know, it's the idea
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: of there's a bit of theater in there, and there's
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: also a bit of putting on different masks because within
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Kansas you do get a little bit of that Southern rock,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: even though they weren't strictly you know, Southern geographically, but
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: you do get a little bit of that Almond Brothers,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Leonard skinnerd sound. But you also get that Jeff Roe Tall,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: that Yes sound. You can get some R and B there.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: So they could wear all these different, you know, metaphorical
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: masks and still have this unified sound. It's a little
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: bit like Queen. You know, Queen album, you'd have songs
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: sung by Roger Taylor, sung by Brian May, you'd have
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: heavy songs, you'd have cabaret songs, you'd have rockabilly songs,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and yet you knew instantly it was Queen. I think
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Kansas had that same sort of potency in their music.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: They had that signature where even if you've never heard
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: it before, so well, that sounds like Kansas to me.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Carrie on Wayward song a huge single, number eleven, and
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: then the album sells five million copies. So here we go,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: finally after three studio albums, all excellent studio albums, but
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: finally they get that hit single. You say that without
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: this song, Kansas could have ended up a band without
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: a chance, and four albums would be all we would
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: have heard. Carrie Livgan wrote it oftened it up to
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: the band at the end of the recording sessions. We
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: know the band was creating some amazing work prior to this,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: but what what is it about this song that stands
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: out from the others to where it finally reaches a
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: wide audience.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it's It's kind of fascinating because we
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: sometimes when you have a song that's that's lasted as
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: long as that has and has gotten the airplay and
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: has showed up in so many different medium media, you
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: start to take it for granted. So I always try
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: to be a picture like what would it have been
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: like listening to the radio in seventy six the first
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: time you heard that a cappella opening and that drum
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: drum lick and then that riff come in and you're like,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: what is this? This is the coolest thing I've ever heard.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: And every part of that song is a hook. The
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: guitar riff is a hook, the the verses are catchy,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: chorus is catchy, the solo is catchy. A little bit
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: you can you can sing it. Every part of that
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: song is a hook. And I just think it was
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: something that people just couldn't resist. And how many times,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: eric in rock history, have you heard about that where
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: a band's best known song or the song that gave
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: them a career almost didn't make the album that it
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: eventually appeared on. How many times has that happen. It's
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: such a weird thing. You just never know what's going
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: to connect with people. But I think one of the
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: stranger things to me about Carrie and Wayward Son is
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: the fact that there's no violin on it, and that's
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: what they were known for, like, oh, that's the band
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: with the violin. Not one trace of violin. And maybe
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: it is because Carrie brought it into the last minute
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: and he hadn't worked out a violin part. I don't know,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: but it's one of those what I would call I
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: call him a bulletproof song. In other words, as many
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: times as I've heard it on the radio, I've never
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: turned the channel when Wayward Sun comes on. I listened
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: to it all the way through. And you know, to me,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: that's like Tom Sawyer by Rush or because it's like, yeah, okay,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: it's the one song they tend to play, but at
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: least you're getting to hear your band on the radio.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: I think there's something to be said too that the
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: song starts right away with that catchy hook like air Clapton.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: It's in a way that you use it, you know,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: right there, so you know you go back to the radio,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: da person.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: It just demands your attention.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: It demands your attention, and in those days of radio,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: it's it's like is this listener going to want to
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: listen or they're going to tune out? And so it's instant.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: So that probably has a lot to do with it
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: as well. Yeah, and that's off of Left Overture, Yeah,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: which the cover is so cool, right, it's.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: An amazing And that's another thing that I love about
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: this band, and it's one of the reasons why I
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: loved collect you know, beginning when I start collecting vinyls
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: because most of their album covers are art. You know,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: They're not just a cool rock album cover, they're pieces
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: of art.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Who does the artwork on that one?
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: A lot of their seventy stuff was done by all
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: the first names have gone right out of my head.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Drennan and Lloyd, I think, Peter.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Let's see, I can look for Drennan and.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Lloyd anyway, it's.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't seen it in the Wikipedia here.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so embarrassing and I can't think of that
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: stuff off the fly, and I should be able to so.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: We can look it up. But my question is, and
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: you asked this question, who is that guy? Who is
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: that guy with a big old beard?
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: And well, when if you go back to their first album,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: the first album has a pretty striking image on it,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: and it's a painting called Tragic Prelude by a guy
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: named John Stuart Curry. And John Brown is the man
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: with the beard at the forefront of that picture and
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: he was a famous abolitionist. And that painting is on
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: a mural in the Kansas State Building. And Phil E.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Hart saw that at an early age, and he always
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: knew if he had a band he wanted that to
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: be his first album cover, and they've used that old
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: man imagery different times. He's on the cover of their
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: best of He's on the cover of the box set.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: So I've often wondered if that guy on left overture
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: is a kind of a frazzle looking John Brown. I
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: don't know. It might also be a self, you know,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: it might be a reflection of Carrie, you know, the
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: guy that hey write us some songs. So he's you know,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: he's straining, trying to trying to write the next masterpiece
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: right and the notes are flying, you know, away from him.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I've just I love the colors. I've always just really
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: even before I was into the band, I remember I
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: would see that. I would see that cassette in like
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: the five dollars, you know, the the cheaper cassette bins,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: and I always think that was a cool cover.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Was it Peter Lloyd and Drennan?
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: The last name was Drennan on the other yet it's
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: definitely Lloyd.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Well, Peter Lloyd does the next album, which is my
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: favorite album musically and my favorite cover. It's another point
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: of no Return. Yeah, point of no Return.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: I like the back. I think the back cover is great.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I love the inner sleeve where it looks like the
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: old map and the gorgeous just amazing stuff and you
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: lose that today in the thumbnail era.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, just a gorgeous piece of work and my
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: favorite album. As I mentioned, as far as the songs.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Released October of seventy seven, we got the title track,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Dust and the Wind huge. The title track went to
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: number twenty eight, dust in the Wind number six. As
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: for dustin the Wind, there is one part in the
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: book where you talk about how the band was asked
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: by the label to come up with a hit and
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: they came up shirt short. I don't believe that was
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: the case here. I mean, this wasn't something this just happened, right.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Can you talk about how this song was written just
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: a finger exercise?
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: For what I understanding is that Kerry Livgren was sitting
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: with an acoustic guitar and just doing that opening lick,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: and his wife said, hey, you know that's nice. You
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: should make a song out of that, and he said,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: oh no, this is just a fingering exercise. And it
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: went on to become their, you know, one of their
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: two signature songs. And I think I understand why that
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: song resonates with so many people because I think everybody's
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: felt like that at one time or another, that that
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: sense of hopelessness and you're you know, you're just a
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: small drop and a big ocean, and you know, ultimately,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: you know, like you know, you know, all your money
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: one another minute by you know, material things mean nothing, right,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: But I think it just got it resonated with people.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: And also the fact that it could get played on
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: so many different formats at that time, right, and it
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: certainly brought them to a newer you know, hey, maybe
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: they were the first rock band to have an acoustic
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: ballad be their break you know, be their biggest song.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: It was like a yeah, like extreme with more than words.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but luckily. But but that's what I like about
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: this band is the fact that, you know, yes, some
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: bands I don't. I'm not a big fan of the
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: term one hit wonder, but some are. Some got lucky
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: once on one one great song, which is more than most.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: The higher percentage of bands ever get right. Most band
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: most bands don't ever get past this first album if
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: you think about it. But Kansas have two and they
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: don't sound like each other. They're completely different songs, so
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: that that's a pretty good microcosm of this is what
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: you're in for. You're in for a little bit of everything.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: And I was listening to that song today on my
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: way back from work, heading home, getting ready for this,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: and I'm just I'm listening, I'm like, what a solo?
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: What a solo? Just beautiful, beautiful solo. And again, now
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: this is going back to I was just mentioning that
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: there were times when maybe the label saying, hey, we
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: need to hit this isn't the case. And I think
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: that's something to be said here too, because it's sound
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Allen's natural. It sounds doesn't sound contrived. It just came
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: and that's the beauty of the track, I think. And
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: and the lyrics, I mean, everybody's coming into play here.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Obviously you got Steve wallsh his vocals, and did he
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: write the lyrics.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Nope, it was all Kerry and and you know, when
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: you talk about contrived, an example of the band trying
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: to write a hit single is the song it Takes
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: a Woman's Love to Make a Man from That right,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: which I think is a really catchy song. But it doesn't,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: you know, it sounds like any band of the era
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: could have it. Sounds like Ario Speedwagon could have written it. It
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: sounds like, you know, Nazareth could have written it, or
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I'm just throwing out names. But when they were truly themselves,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: that's when they had their highest charting songs. And that's
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: something I don't think a lot of record labels understand.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: But I will say this about Don Kershner. I mean,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: apparently he took a bigger percentage of the publishing that
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: was the deal, but he was the only offer they had,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: and he had enough faith in them that he kept
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: CBS saying the wolf away from the door, saying, I
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: believe in these guys. Don't worry. You know you're gonna
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: get your money back. They're gonna come through. And they did.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So you have the two huge albums in the
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: platinum selling live double album from seventy eight to two
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: for the show, and I would think most expected the
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: next studio album to be another hit. Nineteen seventy nine's
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Monolith was not a hit, and you describe it as
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: a dark, moody, challenging album. Was the band too experimental? Here?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I love that album so much, and I love the
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: fact that the seventies like it was a different era.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: You'd sign these lengthy record deals and the band it
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: would probably cheaper for the record label to put an
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: album out than to say, no, we're not putting that out.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: And that's why you had bands like and a lot
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: of them were on CBS. You had bands like Bloyster
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Cult and Cheap Trick and Molly Atchett, even Heart. They
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: put out all these albums and a lot of them
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: weren't successful at all, but they have this now you
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: look back and they've hit all of these different albums.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: And so for Kansas, coming off of those two multi
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: platinum albums, had the clout to present monolith to the label,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: no obvious hit singles and yeah it is a dark, moody,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: challenging listen and say this is our album.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: So none of the songs on this album people were
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: recognize from the radio. Today you had two singles, People
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: of the South Wind reason to be songs that are
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: recognized about when.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Hit number twenty three in its time, probably on momentum,
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: you know, it's the next thing they came out with.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: And I like the song, but I've never heard it
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: on the radio ever, you know, but obviously it was
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: at one time but yeah, there are no there are
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: no staples from that album, and you really see the
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: difference it hit single makes. I mean, left overture're sold
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: five million over time. I think it probably sold you
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: a two million in its time, but over time it
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: certified five million, pointed Overturns at four million, and Monolith
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: some say it went platinum. RIAA says no, So I'm
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: guessing it's close. But that just shows you the drop
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: off when you don't have that big single that's all
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: over the radio, that gets your average fans buying the album,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: not just the diehards.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: And a really interesting question you ask in the book
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: how different would things be if Monolith was another smash hit.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: What do you think about that and what did the
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: panel tell you?
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Well, my thought on that is that if you if
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: you had another album that was at the level of
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: left Over to your point and Overturn, another top ten,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: top fifteen single and across the board smashed, if you
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: were to do that a couple more times, I just
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: think it would have cemented them as a major, major
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: rock band. You know what we now call classic rock,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: and you know, a bit like a band like Styx
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: that had like five or six albums in a row
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that each had at least one big hit off them,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: and they were all two three million sellers consistently. If
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Kansas had been able to maintain that, I don't think
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: they would have gone through the valleys of their career
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: that they did. I just think they would have stayed
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: a bigger band for longer. But then again, you know,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: maybe some of my favorite albums wouldn't have been made
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: if that had happened. I don't know.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Was that the consensus among the guys on the panel.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Did they all feel the same way?
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Well, we all kind of agreed that the band always
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: did what they wanted to do. It was just that
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: the taste of the public, you just never know what
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: people are going to latch onto, and so, you know,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the album came out, they went on tour, and it
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: just just didn't do as well. It was the first
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: time they had an album that didn't do was well
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: as what had come before. But the fact of the
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: matter is is that the first three albums, Monolith and
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Audio Visions over Time were all certified at least gold.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: So this is a band that sold a lot of albums,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and it's not just the two big ones.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Audio Visions came out the following year, nineteen eighty,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: booked on rock Podcasts. We'll be back after this.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Surely you can't be serious. I am serious, and don't
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: call me surely.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Tim Diling is the author of the new book let
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: It Be Your Guy. The Kansas Album Review, the last
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: album with the original lineup of Steve Walls, Kerry Livgren,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Robbie Steinhardt, Rich Williams, Dave Hope and Phil Ehart until
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: two thousand. Somewhere to Elsewhere is Audio Visions. A top
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: forty single, hold On, comes off of this album, the
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: song about Livgren's conversion to Christianity. Now, this is interesting
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: because this is kind of where some of the I
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: think this is where Steve Wallash just starting to a little
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: bit riff there between him and.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Started on MONOLITHT. But I mean that's only a year previous, right,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: So you had Carrie bringing his songs in, Steve bringing
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: his songs in. There wasn't a lot of collaboration. They
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: would basically bring in I'm assuming the greater part of
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: a song. Maybe somebody would change a word here or there.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: But yeah, there were philosophical differences that were beginning to
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Happen and hold On is ambiguous enough that you know
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: you would listen to it. It just sounds like a
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: love ballad, which I think is why it got the
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: airplay it did. But it is one of those funny songs.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it's like Rainbow, Stone Cold or
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Burned for You by boc literally hit number forty.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Interesting, yeah, yeah, and then Kansas returned to the top
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: twenty with Play the Game Tonight from nineteen eighty two's
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Vinyl Confession. That's a really solid song. Where have I
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: heard that title before? By the way, Vinyl Confessions.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, absolutely the reason that I named my channel.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm such a big man and I thought
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Tim's Confessions had a ring to it. So ten years
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: later and I'm still doing it. So I didn't know
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: ten years ago i'd be doing something like this. I mean,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: it just wasn't there to self publish the way it
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: is now. This surprises me that I don't hear it, because, yeah,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: number seventeen song is you know, that's pretty impressive considering
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: how long they've been around. At the time they would
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: have had that. Oh that's an old band, right, even
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: though they were you know, maybe in their mid thirties
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: that they're oldest, but they've been around for a while
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: and they managed a top twenty single. Unfortunately, the album
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: didn't follow suit. It wasn't as successful, didn't certify, which
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: is really strange to me. But but yeah, I mean
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: that's a fantastic song, and they what I think they
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: did there was very very wisely. They changed just enough
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: of their sound that I've had this discussion, you know,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: with a few people in the book, particularly Chez. We
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: both think that there's that song and there's other songs
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Vinyl Confessions. We get like a survivor vibe from it.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: So they they were able to adapt ever so slightly
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to what was on rock radio at the time and
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: just hit that sweet spot in ao R where people
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: just couldn't resist it. You know, they made some they
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: made some horrifically bad videos in their early career.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Who didn't, But.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, not everybody can be def Leppard. Not everybody
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: can be Van Halen and be photogenic and ready to
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: do these videos right. But yeah, they're fun to watch now,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: but I can't imagine that doing driving album sales.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: But I think you need a good pair of headphones
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: to pick up on this. But Roger Taylor of Queen
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: is in that song. He's doing backing vocals on.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: That right Away, which is the next song on Vinyl Confessions.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: You can you can hear him on that.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, so he's not on Play the Game Tonight
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: or is he?
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not credited for it, but the one for sure
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: that he could be. But I know for sure he's
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: on the song right Away because you can hear you
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: can hear him, and he could be on a song
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: called Face It Too that's on that album. But that's
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: a fun little piece of trivia that I didn't know
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: for a few years.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Then, Yeah, how did Roger Taylor come into the.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: DANSA and Queen toured together very early on, like seventy
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: four or seventy five, so they would have known each
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: other for a long time. I don't know how Roger
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: ended up unless he was working on a solo album,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: because they were. I think they recorded that in Georgia,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: but I'm not I could be wrong about that, but
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean, if you want somebody to sing
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: high background vocals, who better than Roger Taylor. On the
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: album itself, it just said special thanks to Roger. It
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: didn't say probably contractually he couldn't. They couldn't really make
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: much of a, you know, statement about who it was.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: But years later I had a book about I found
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: this little book about Queen and it said he sang background.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: I put two and two together. Then I started kind
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: of playing the songs on my head and oh, yeah,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I can hear him on there.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Now the lead vocals not Steve Walsh, right,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: John Elafonte.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: On alenthon, Yeah, who's the new.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Singer at that time? He joins in eighty one.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. John was with the band for a short time.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: He was with him for Vinyl Confessions and the follow up,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Drastic Measures. But when I got into Kansas, which wasn't
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: until nineteen ninety two, one of the first things I
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: bought was their Best of CD that came out in
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: eighty four, and it's got three songs on it that
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: feature John on lead vocals. The first one that I
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: heard was fight Fire with Fire, which I think is
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: just a fantastic song. You'd never know it was Kansas again.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: They're changing, right, it's the eighties, But I love the song,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: so I mean it was that's right up my alley. Right.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: So when I heard that, and I heard Play the
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Game Tonight and then there was a new song on
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: the original Best Stuff called Perfect Lover, I did not
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: realize it was a different singer. On those songs, he
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: sounded so much like Steve Walsh. Now as I got
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: into the band and listened to them more and more,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, okay, it's a different to different tone.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: But he had a very similar vocal range. And one
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: of the remarkable things about John is that it wasn't
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: just they needed a singer. Carrie needed somebody that could
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: write and could help carry the songwriting load, and he
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: brought that. He and his brother Dino had been writing
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: already in their formidable songwriting team. So that was a
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: pretty seamless transition as far as a band losing a
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: lead vocalist. I think when he joined.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Now here's something I read in Wikipedia. You tell me
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: if there's any truth to this. John Alfonte auditioned and
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: got the gig. According to Wikipedia, Sammy Hagar applied for
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: the job. Have you heard this?
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, where do you think that came from? Well?
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Wikipedia is public. I have never That is the one
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and only place I've ever read that his own Wikipedia.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because Sammy would have talked about that at some point.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: You'd think Sammy never refuses a microphone.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: King's X.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Oh wait, wait, you heard that Sammy tried for King's X.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: No, that Doug Pinnick tried for Kansas.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Oh oh wow.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, And you know it's a it's a strange comparison,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: but that whole thing, you know, it's not a whole
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: thing because nobody really talks about that much. But yeah,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: you know, Sammy Hagar supposedly auditioning for Kansas just as
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: his Geffen career is getting started and he's starting to
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: sell records. I don't think so that doesn't make any
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: sense to me. Why would you go you know, why
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: would you do that? That would be a downward move.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: That's like Gene Simmons talking about Eddie Van me Hill
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: and joining Kiss. I don't believe that either, because the
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: only person who ever heard say that is Gene.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, And David Lee Roth always thought that
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: he was just looking, he was looking to steal ed
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: and now but.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: That was earlier, was earlier, Yeah, album came out, so
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I could be look I certainly wasn't there. I just
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: don't believe it. Yeah, I don't believe And I can't
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: hear it either. No Sammy favorite singers ever. I just
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: can't hear him singing those Kansas songs. I can't hear it.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Remember he was considered for the Aerosmith gig
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: when Joe Perry and Steve Steven Tyler had a falling out.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the weird that was a weird period where the
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: you know, the band is suing their own singer and yeah, dysfunction.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Junction, classic Aerosmith and the drama.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, finished reading. I just finished reading a book
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: about them.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I'm so bummed to hear about Steven Tyler. And but
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: props to him for saying, you know what, I can't.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: I can't do it anymore. I'm not going to go
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: out there and sing to a track, So props to him.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: But what a voice, what a front front man, what
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: a presence on stage, I mean, just total rock and
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: roll Steven Tyler.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Absolute. And I don't know when this is going to air,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: but possibly by the time this is there, I will
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: have aired our episode, uh sort of our Aerosmith tribute.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: But that figures in and I don't really talk about
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: it in this book because this book's about the music.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: They weren't really Aerosmith have a reputation, had a reputation
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: in the seventies of not being very good to their
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: opening acts, Rush coming to mind, not getting any sound check,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: and they weren't very good to Kansas either. But those
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: are stories for people to look up. Steven Tyler in
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: particular being very you know, wanting you know, not wanting
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: anybody to blow Aerosmith off the stage, which I don't
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: know what they had to worry abook is on when
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: they were on one of the greatest, you know, one
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: of the greatest rock and roll bands ever, but especially
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: was played in Kansas home state. They had quite a following,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: right and this is pre left overture, and you know,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: to the point where the road crew had to go
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: out and do a dummy set of cables because Tyler
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: unplugged stuff so they wouldn't get me on it. I
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: think things since then, because I've read just as many
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: stories about people talking about how great Aerosmith were to
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: tour with, so I think that they kind of mellow
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: them about.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: But things have.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: All of these you know, it doesn't take long. You
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: talk about any of these bands, other bands come into
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: the orbit, right, It's just how it is.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: We mentioned five Fire with Fire, the album that comes
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: off of interesting title This is Nights and eighty three
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: drastic measures. You talk about drastic, drastic measures, where yeah,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: they took drastic measures here and tried something drastically different
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: and it pays off. Though number fifty eight single, five
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Fire with Fire.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Number three the same rock. I mean, I don't understand
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: how that song didn't get higher. I have to think
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: CBS were just that was the last album of the contract,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: and I have to think they just weren't promoting it
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: because it stalled at forty one. It was the first
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: time they didn't reached the top forty with an album.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: And you know, they spent some money on the video.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: The video makes no sense other than there's fire in it.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: But I was just watching it today.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all the band members are in it, right if
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: you look well enough. But it's just it's very bizarre.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that song could have been a huge hit.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: You know, I say this a lot, but I think
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of songs are like one soundtrack away.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: From I was just what to see or imagine that
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: shows up on like a rocky movie or something.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, or top Gun or yeah. It's a fantastic song.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: It's so of its time, but I don't care. I
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: love it.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: So you agree with the direction they were going, you
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: agree with that.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: See, I'm an eighties guy. I mean, you know, I
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: love and I love the fact. When I listen to
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: that Best of CD, I thought it was great because
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I like the progressive stuff like this is the first
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: time I was hearing song from America in Point of
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: No Return and No One Together in the Wall. But
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: when I heard fight Fire with Fire, I'm like, this
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: is so cool. I didn't know they had songs like this.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I love this to me. To me, it's versatility. It's
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: not selling out.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: It's versatility, just changing with the times. And yeah, and.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: It paid off temporarily. But I mean at the time,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: they've been around for nine years, and you have to
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: look at it. You can't look at it with twenty
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: twenty four perspective. You have to look at it as
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: back then that seemed like a long time for a
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: rock band to be around, Like I remember, you know.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: To give you another example, in the late eighties, when
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones came out with steel wheels and people
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: were talking about how old Mick Jagger and Keith Richards were.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Well they were in nineteen eighty nine, very younger than
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: I am.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Now they're like forty.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: So it's just the perspective has changed, right, Like you know,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: the always.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: The old man jokes applied to the Stones as far
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: back as seventy eight, when when they hit the age
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: of thirty or even maybe even Black and Blue and
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: like mid seventies came around. That's just the way. And
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: here's what's interesting because I was just reading a book,
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: great book on live aid, and I never realized the
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: impact live aid had on bands like that, because it
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: made those bands cool again. You know the Queen with
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Freddie Murracley that performance, So that changed a lot. I
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: think that that created what we now know as legacy bands.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Well that's where you know, I think a lot of
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: people in my generation, if your parents didn't grow up
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: listening to some of these older bands, maybe that's what
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: you You know, what when what's the first thing you
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: think of when you think of you mentioned Derek Clapton.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: First thing I ever heard from Eric Clapton, I think
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: was Forever Man yes for me.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Five, Yeah, we can't.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Just because it was big in the sixties and seventies
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean you've ever heard of it. So a lot
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: of people when they think, on's the first time you saw,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: you know, Mick Jagger, it could have been, well, maybe
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: it was the Undercover of the Night video, or maybe
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: it was when Mick had what was it called Just
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Another Night? Yes, or maybe it was dancing in the
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: street with Bowie.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're around the same age. I love Undercover of
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: the Night and I remember mentioning that to a diehard,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: longtime Stones fan and like, ah, but I'm like, that's
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: when I got on board. That's like, I have memories
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: of seeing that video on MTV and the song I think.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: That's an eliminator, that's a I didn't.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Know that Yeah, yeah, right right? Or how about the
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Stones one hit to the Body. I'm like, that song
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: kicks ass. But the album thirty work was not the greatest,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: but I admit but but yeah, it is interesting. It
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: depends on when you when you jump on board to
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: become a fan of the band, and if if the
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: if the band is around long enough, you're gonna get
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: new generations to fans. And a classic rock rado help
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Kansas out a lot. I know they don't they play
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: what two three songs? I get that, but still at
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: least it helped them as far as some legitimacy there.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: It's like, okay, you know they're they're coming around, They're
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: going to be playing in the area. I know those songs,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: So that certainly helped them.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: And you the fans, you know, coming to shows. That's
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: essential to any long you know, any veteran band. And
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: it's funny because one thing that you know, supernatural the
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: TV show Carrie on Wayward Sun was like the unofficial
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: theme song, and actually that's that show featured a lot
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: of great classic rock sticks and Foreigner and Boston, but
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Wayward Sun is the one. I mean. And and the
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: band themselves has acknowledged that they've shown up at fan
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: conventions and that's very smart, and it's the reason my
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: kids knew that song as young as they did because
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: they watched that show. Eventually, you know, I am who
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: I am, and they you know, they've seen all my
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: CDs and my collection. But it legitimizes it. It's not
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: like that's not just something that my dad listens to.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: That's something that's current. It's almost current, right, it brings
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: these these songs are evergreen and the last forever. It's funny.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: The whole thing about Kansas, we're talking about eighty five
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: eighty six. My entry point with Kansas is when I
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: heard All I Wanted on the radio in nine eighty six.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: That was the very first time I'd ever heard of
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: this band.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: That's from Power, that's from ninety six.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Very commercial. Yeah, period, It's one of my favorite albums
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: for that very reason. I think that album is huge.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: But that's when I got on board.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Well that's that's like the second half of Kansas, because
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: they put up the best of in eighty four, and
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: usually when you put out that best of, that's kind
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: of a statement like, Okay, hey this you know, this
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: is what we've done. And I think it's you know,
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: either the band is, you know, breaking up and so
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: here's our best of take care seel or we're going
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: to move on to the next phase of our of
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: our career, or or the record label company.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Is I mean about Aerosmith, how many times did this happen?
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: You're right, there's Classics Live and Gems so true. And
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: then they signed back with Sony. Well, here's Geffen putting
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: out Yeah, it's.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: It's so true. Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's like, you know,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: one more plus if you want to get out of
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: a record labeled deal and you got one more record left,
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: it's like, fine, here's the best of We're out. That's
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: the other thing.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, something I'm writing about right now. I won't
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: name any names, but there's a classic example of that
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: happening where someone put an album out and they didn't
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: even really go out of the way to make it
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: look like it was the best of They made it
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: look like it was a new album. More on that.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, yeah, that Best of Kansas eighty four.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: So then yeah, they come the next album after the
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: best of his nineteen eighty six is Power and then
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: in the Spirit of Things is eighty eight. That was
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Those are the last two studio albums of the eighties
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: from Kansas, but the last right.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they Steve morph on those albums. Who's a Monster
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Player and Steve Walsh is Steve comes Back. So it's
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: a yeah, and it's a little bit like yes, I mean,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: you know, after John Anderson left and they did the
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Drama album, which is my favorite Yes album.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, I just did an episode on nine oh one
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: two five.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: With Stephen Lads. It's funny, you know this is all
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: lining up because so then nine o one two five
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: and owner of Lonely Hearts. The first time I ever
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: heard of Yes, I'd never I would have long run
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: around when I was nine years old listen to pop
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: radio in the early eighties. But I think that Power, uh,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: if MCA had promoted it correctly, I think Power could
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: have done for Kansas what Nina one two five did
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: for Yes, and just completely revitalize them for a new
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: generation of fans.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: But you write that in the book. Yep, you put
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: that in the book.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: I still I still stand by that. I still think
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: that album. They could have gone three four singles deep
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: with that album. It was perfect for the radio times.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: They revamped their image enough. I mean, the videos are
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: pretty much of their time. They're they're better than the
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: previous few they had done. But yeah, it just didn't happen.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: And then dropped the ball.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: MCA totally dropped the ball because they dropped the ball
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: with Kansas, and they dropped the ball with a lot
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: of other artists. Circle nineteen eighty eight a lot of
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: pressure was on the band for in the spirit of things,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: that's why there's four songs on there by outside writers,
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: and they're not good songs. They're just even of the songwriters.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Because there's songwriters like Mark Spiro and Dan Huff and
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: people that can write songs. They're just not the best
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: of the best of these writers. But eighty eight they
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: are throwing these albums out, these these old rock bands
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: in favor of Tiffany or Bobby Brown or whoever else
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: was happening, right, because the same fate befell night Ranger.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: They put up Man Emotion, my favorite night Ranger album.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Loved that album. Didn't do a thing on the charts. Happy.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: They did it to Dennis d. Young, they did it
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: to the Little River Band, they did it to Triumph MC.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: It was just not a good rock label. I've always
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: thought it's a shame that Kansas couldn't have resigned the
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: CBS because then they would have had that that that
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: new push with the new music, but the back catalog
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: would have been promoted too, because the record label would
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: be like, hey, we stand to make more money, especially
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: when CDs were just starting to come out. Right, Yeah,
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: it could have you know, but hey, yeah, but.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: They speaking of Night Ranger. By the way, this is funny.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: My friend was at an air airport in Florida and
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: there was a woman sitting next to him and she goes,
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: do you know, do you recognize those guys over there?
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Do you know who that is? And he's like, I
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: get that. You could tell they were like some some
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: you know, older rocker dudes, you know, long hairy's. She's like,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: that's Jack Blades from Night Ranger. And then it was
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: there was Jack Blades, and it was who else was there?
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: I think think, uh the guitarist Gillis, Brad Gillis, And
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: so my friend went up very quickly, just introduced themselves,
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: said they were like the coolest guys anyway.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: That's just I met, Yeah, I I I went to
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: see them last year. They were fan I'm still great.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and they.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Can still sing in the original keys. It's amazing. And
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: we didn't meet great they were super cool. Jack Blades
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: is a lot shorter than me. Yeah, you don't know
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: new people.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: But you know what my friend was saying, like just
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: like a working band, you know, just there at the airport,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: just getting get on their flight. You know, and they
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: got their instruments with them and everything, and uh but
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: you know, we're kind of going to what we were
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: saying with Kansas. They got enough songs on the radio
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: that you know, you certainly beat the nine to five,
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: that's for sure.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: And uh yeah, I think really prescient once. And not
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: every band will admit, uh to this. Some some bands
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: have a hard time admitting that, yeah, okay, we had
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: you know, we we we got we made it once.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: But Steve Wallh said, you know, Carrie wrote two amazing
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: songs carry on Wayward Son Dustin Whinny said, that's my career.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: He said, those two songs have enabled us to weather
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: all of these changes. So, I mean, he hasn't been
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: in the band for quite a few years, but I
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: thought that was really cool for him. He realizes that, yeah,
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: if it weren't for those two songs, they wouldn't be able,
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't be able to make a living on the road.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: And to me, and I don't you agree. You go
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: see the band because you know those two or three hits,
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: but then you hear all the other songs in between
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: that they're playing all these classics. You're like, damn, this
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: band is good, you know, so you invest more into
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: the band because it's not like there's just filler songs
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: other than the hits. I mean, these are legitimately solid
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: rock and roll songs.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, And that's why I wanted to write this book
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: because I think Kansas deserves that that brighter spotlight sewan
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: on them. Because I'm one of those crazy fans that
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: would go to a concert and I'd be like, you know,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: what doesn't matter to me if they play carry On
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: or dustin the Wind or not. I'd rather than play
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: bless or Stay out of Trouble or Relentless or these
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: songs that most people don't huh. They're the songs that
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: that you know, you've seen it happen a million times.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Band will do an obscure song and you've got like
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: a very small percentage of the crowd losing their minds
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: and the rest of the people mer booth, you know.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: But some bands will do that for their hardcore fans.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: They'll put in a song or two Kansas.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: What I what I like about how how they do
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: things is they've never shied away from any point of
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: their their career. They're you know, like an easy example
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: would be deep Purple. I mean, you'll never have with
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Ian Gillen on vocals. You'll never have them doing Burn
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: or Stormbringer or anything from the Coverdale Heut. That just
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: never happened, but the fans would love it. Yeah, exactly.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: But but Kansas, they're their last I mean, the last
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: two studio albums they've put out. They've followed each one
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: up with a double live album, and they run the
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: gamut from all as effects of their career. So it's
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: really it's it's I love this band too, but they're
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: the anti Journey. It's not not the predictable song list
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: at all. You know what, there are a few songs
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: you know you're gonna hear. You don't necessarily know what
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: order you're going to hear them in or what you'll
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: hear in between. But you're gonna come away from that
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: thinking that was completely satisfying.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: Book Down Rock Podcast will be back after this.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Patience, Patience, little deer. Everything has to be in order.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: This was a mind blow. Bob ezrin I had no
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: idea he worked with Kansas nineteen eighty eight. In the
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: spirit of things that album he produced. It tells the
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: story of a flood hitting the real Kansas, a city
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: called Neosho Falls nineteen fifty one. Isn't that the backstory
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: to this?
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: The backstory? But if anybody watches the deep Dive series
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: that I did on that album, that's actually my least
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: favorite Kansas album. And when I say that something not
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: everything can be your favorite, that happens to be my
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: least favorite.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: What the hell happened Bob Ezren? I know Bob Bob
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: had substance abuse issues. I don't know if it's I
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: think that.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: He was still very much. It wasn't. It wasn't a
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: focused thing.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: Because because we're talking about the guy who produced the wall.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: A Cooper, don't forget about that.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: And I know music from situation.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: I'm an elder apologist, but in the sphere of things
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: gets started with a concept, it ends with a concept,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: but in the middle it completely gets away from him.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: Like I said, they're doing these outside songs that have
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with the town being flooded out, and
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: it just seems like there was miscommunication everywhere. You've got
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: a record company that's panicking, pushing for hits, and they're
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: sandwiching them in between these other songs, and it doesn't
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: necessarily sound like a bob Ezren product to me either.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: It's really weird.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: But they also got Storm Thowguson to do the album art,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: so they were MCA was.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: That album cover is invisible. Yeah, have their logo on it, which,
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: like we said, is one of the best logos. I'm
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: really down on that whole thing, not the cover concept,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: but just the execution of it. It's dark. You know,
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: that album I think hit the delete bins within months
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: of it coming out.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Sadly, Yeah, hairband Rock was huge.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: Man. It was like, yeah, it's got songs on it
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: that I really like, but it's also got some songs
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: where I go, why did they record this song? It's
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: it's just didn't right it. It's not that good. You
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: could just I have this this vision that somewhere there's
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: an alternate version of that that album that they had
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: wanted to do that was more like traditional Kansas. But
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: but you're right, you're you know. I've said this many times.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: I've said it about Night Ranger, I've said it about Survivor,
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: I've said it about Foreigner, I've said it about Ario Speedwagon.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: For these bands thirty eight Special, it wasn't their time anymore. Yeah,
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: late eighties was not the time for these bands because
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: it was Bon Jovi and def Leppard and White Snake,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: bands that I think in many cases were influenced by
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of these late seventies bands that lasted into
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: the eighties and don't get the credit for it. But
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: but yeah, it was unlikely that anything Kansas put out
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight was going to be a hit.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: But I think that they might have been able to
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: put out a better album with some more focus. I
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: think I wish they'd gone back to working with Jeff
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Glixman sooner than they actually did. Jeff Glixman produced most
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: of their albums in the seventies, and he was he
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: understood this band. He grew up with these guys. He knew,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: you know. He became a well known producer because of them.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: He did come back later though, didn't he produce a
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: later album.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he produced. He produced Freaks of Nature, which that
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: was the first album, and it's one of my all
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: time favorites. I think it's a great album. I think
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: it's a great sounding album, and it sounds like Kansas,
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: but it sounds like Kansas revitalized for the nineties. It's heavier.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, let's get to that one a little bit.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That well, there's an album that I think they had.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say they had. They had a compilation
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: album ninety two, carry On, then they had Live at
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: the Whiskey ninety two. Then there's a box at ninety four,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: and then comes Freak of Nature.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Freaks of Nature unfortunately came into this little label
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: called Intersound, which is out of Atlanta, and it just
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: it didn't have the distribution. I had to special order it,
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: but I knew it was coming out.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: It's to cover. Huh. Let's see is that a real Uh?
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: That's one of those I was told that that came
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: from an old magazine advertisement from like the nineteen twenties
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure what it is actually supposed to be,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: but I think people would be surprised listening to that
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: album just how vital it sounds.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: And I think they brought the logo back, the old
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: Kansas logo.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, And I love how there's a different like creature
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: or animal hidden in each letter.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, a.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Lot of there's a lot of great imagery on there.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: I love that album. I was way into that when
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: it came out.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And just because something doesn't do well commercially
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: doesn't really mean that much when you get to the
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: mid nineties, because right the run you got it, you
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: know you could get a kick ass album. It's just
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: not going to get into airplay. Radio stations weren't going
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: to bother regardless of how good it was. But that's
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: when you say people should check out. I think that
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: one is available on Spotify because I believe let's yeah.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: And it was reissued on vinyl a few years ago
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: because it had never been on vinyl originally. Unfortunately, it's
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: not the best transfer I've ever seen. It's pretty blurry
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: front and back photo. It looks like they it looks
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: like they just took the CD cover and blew it
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: up because it never would have been made for vinyl originally.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Right, all right, Yeah, Well these are the two I
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: picked out for the playlist for the episode. But you
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: tell me if I should add more Desperate Times and Hope.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: Once again, I picked those two.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: If you want to pick out something heavy, black Fathom.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: Four, Black Fathom four, that's.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: That's yeah. That song there is the closest I think
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Kansas have ever come to.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: Metal Okay, here it is. I'm adding it as we speak, here, Tim,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: here we go. Let's put it right up there. So
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: three tracks now from that album, yeah, and I love
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: the next one, which is the the album they do
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: with the London Symphony Orchestra, and it's from nineteen ninety eight.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: Always Never the Same some let's see is that that's
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: the title, right, Always Never the.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: Always Never the Same?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: It had so yeah, a lot of its reworkings of
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: older songs, but they did do I think three new
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: studio tracks on there, and a cover of eleanor Rigby. Yeah,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: so a nice.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: Of dust in the win Man, really nice version of
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: dust and the Wind.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: I mean the music, there were a lot of you know,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: there were a lot of trends, right. It was the
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: unplugged album, There was the covers album. Well one of
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: them was the orchestral album. But Kansas Music lends itself
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: to that more than a lot of bands would, so
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: actually that's not even I didn't even consider that an
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: album in the book, to be quite honest with you,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: because it only had the four new songs on it,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: one of which was a Beatles cover. So I kind
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: of talk about those in the chapter on the next album,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: which is Somewhere to Elsewhere, which is another album that
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: came and went and didn't get any attention, even though
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: I think it's quite good. Find that too. What's up
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: the special circumstances behind that one too, Because for once
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: you got the original six lineup together, plus Billy Greer
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: still staying there on bass, so you had two bass
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: players that carry Livgren wrote all the songs on it,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: and then he was gone again. But in the meantime,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: you know, and that was their last studio album for
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: sixteen long years.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: Right, I know. Yeah, that was the first with the
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: band's original lineup since nineteen eighties Audio Visions.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was in two thousand. Yeah, another sixteen years
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: before another Kansas album arrived, But this would not be
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: with the original lineup. Who's on the twenty sixteen album
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: The Prelude Implicit?
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, The Prelad Implicit and the Absence of Presence from
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty are both about as good new albums by
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: a veteran band as I can think of. Just really,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: I think that the Absence of Presence is even better
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: than The Prelude Implicit. You've got Ronnie Platt on vocals
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: he joined. I think Steve Walsh finally stepped down from
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: Kansas in twenty fifteen. He just did not want to
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: do any new Kansas music. He was making his own music,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: but for some reason he didn't want to do any
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: new Kansas material. So they were just out on the
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: road and playing the oldies. But Ronnie came from a
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: band called Shooting Star, which some people will have known.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: He wasn't in their seventies eighties lineup, but he had
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: been previously their singer. And I'm sure there's some other
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: bands that come to mind that he was in. As fact,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: there's one that's evading me right now. But he doesn't
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: sound like Steve Walsh and he doesn't sound like John Elephant.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: But he's got the right set of pipes for this
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: material and he can handle anything, whether it's from Monolith
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: or whether it's from Power, or whether it's from one
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: of the albums he actually sang on. So I'm I
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: think this band's future. I think they've got more new
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: music in them.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it'd be great. The Prelude Implicit the
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: Voyage of eight eighteen is my favorite.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: It's great, It's fantastic.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: That's a great song. And then on the Absence, The
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: Absence of Presence, Right, So there are three singles which
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: are all solid, Throwing Mountains, Jets Overhead, Memories down the Lane.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Memories down the Line, great ballad.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: Oh I'm sorry, Memories down the Line, Yes, but.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Throwing Mountains is a good heavy like a heavy
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: can this one. Animals on the Roof is another favorite
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: of mine. On there, I think that's just a killer
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: album from start to finish.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: And that's July of twenty twenty, not too long ago,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: but for you, just after COVID right, The Absence of Presence, Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: Tom Brislin on keyboards. That's the first album he's on
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: and the last to feature David Ragsdale.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, David stepped down, which is a shame. I liked
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: his playing. He was a really good replacement for Robbie
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: Steinhardt because Kansas went about ten years without that violin.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: Without that, you know their life, their life, you know
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: their life force, what they were known for. I'm guessing
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: that they played They just played those parts on synth.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: I guess the violin parts. But Ragsdale came into the
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: band in the early nineties and Freaks and Nature was
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: the first band he was on. He also plays really
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: good guitar, but he's since been replaced by a guy
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: named Joe Deninsen who was in a band called Stradibirius.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: Not familiar with them, but Kansas never hires bad musicians,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: so I think they're going to be all right.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: And they celebrated the fiftieth anniversary in twenty twenty three.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: Currently on tour, the fiftieth anniversary tour right, still going.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're still on tour their road dogs Man, and
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: there's you know, they played pretty big theaters and big
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: size venues, and unfortunately, you know, we've had had this
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: conversation before. They never seem to come around the eastern
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: part of Canada, which is where I've only ever seen Kansas.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: Once I saw them. I saw them in ninety four
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: when they played in a little place in Maine, which
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: is just just across the border from where I live.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, check out what's their official website? People can check
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: for those dates.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: Even Sands band dot com.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, kansasband dot com. You're right, yep. Now, last question.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: Doing a quick Google search, if you search Kansas Rock
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: and Roll Hall of Fame, there's a post on Reddit
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: with a heading how the hell are Kansas not in
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: the rock and Roll Hall of Fame? That's one of
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: the first entry you do a Google search. So I
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: know you feel they should be in there. Why are
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: they not in there? And do you think that will
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: ever change?
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, the rock and Roll Hall of Fame
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: is the rock and Hall of Fame. I mean, it
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean much when they're inducting pop artists and hip
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: hop artists and country artists that don't even want to
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: be inducted.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: Whitney Houston man rock and roll.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: Look, I think there should be a pop Hall of Fame.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: I think there should be a pop Hall of Fame.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: But why is it that we're all right with inducting
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: hip hop artists into the rock and roll Hall of Fame?
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Yet you try to induct some you know, in a
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: hip hop all it might happen now with all the crossovers,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: but into the grand ole opry that wouldn't happen.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: And they have something against these progressive rock bands. It's
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: like they just they seem to.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: Know I know things started to open up, but they're
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: also backwards about it. Because even though I've been a
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: Rush fan and I'm a bigger fan longer than I've
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: been a Yes fan. It doesn't make sense that Rush
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: got in first, because if it wasn't for Yes, there
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be Rush.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: Right. The explanation to that would be that once they
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: get a band in, that band now has.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: A little bit of say yeah, which is good. I
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: think this kind of goes back to my comp you
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: know why, if they'd have had two more albums that
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: were as big as left Over to your point of
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: no return, that might have made a difference. But I mean,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: when you think about bands that aren't in the rock
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame yet, Boston aren't in the
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: rock and roll Hall of Fame. I mean, if Boston
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: had only put out that one album, it should still
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: be in the rock and roll Hall of Fame.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: Had the record for the biggest selling debut album of
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: all time, that company isn't in the rock and roll
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: bad company. If I love and.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: To Sevel, I mean I my feeling is I just
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: don't think they were a major band long enough. I
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: think they're just deserving of every accolade because they're fantastic.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: My goal I've always said that to me. When you
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: think about the classic rock bands of the seventies. You know,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: you think about Zeppelin and Queen and these great, great,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: great bands. To me, Kansas is every bit is good,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: and their catalog is every bit is consistently good. It's
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: just that you know a lot of different lineup changes,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: different labels, you know, major labels, minor labels, all these
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: different things that just create this confusion where people, you know,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: stop up and go yeah, but past Carrie on Wayward
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: Son and Dustin the Wind, what did they do? And
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: you need somebody like me or any of the people
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: in this book to sit them. This is what they
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: did right?
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: And how many bands can say that they incorporate the
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: violin into rock and roll and make it work and
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: create iconic songs that last, that will last beyond us.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: And if you want to go with that whole theory
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: of well, you know, they only got a couple big
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: selling albums, maybe he should have had more. Def Leppard
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: is one of my top five favorite bands of all time.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: But if you want to go with that argument, okay,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: well def Leppard had two big big alps Pyromania in Hysteria.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, but the difference is that also had multiple
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: hit singles from.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: The right right, trust me, I am you know. That's
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: why there's no formula there. It's like all politics, I think,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: and it doesn't.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: Seem to be any rhyme reason. And also, Kansas was
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: never a band that for some reason. They were never
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: a band that was given the lip service by other
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: bands saying, hey, this band is cool. I grew up
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: listening to this band you too. You know, I got
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: into Queen a lot because Metallica talked about them, Extreme
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: talked about them, def Leppard talked about them. Kansas deserved that.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: You know. The documentary is great. The documentary is great
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: because Brian May is in it and he speaks very
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: highly that that's cool. Yeah, you would have been a
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: peer of theirs, right. They started around the same time.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: But the younger bands, and I say the younger bands,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: the next generation of bands, you've never heard them talk
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: about Kansas, So I think that has something to do
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: with it too.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: Bottom line is, look, listen to the music. If you
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: love the music, that's all that matters. So Oka and
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: the fact that they're still out there fifty years later
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: and they're still drawing good crowds, that says it all.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: The music's going to be there. So that's what I say.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: Damn it, I'm preaching.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: I just I just think they need to come up
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: in that classic rock conversation more than they do.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep. Well, your book is gonna definitely going to help.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: Let it be your guy. The Kansas album review. There
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: it is. It's out now. You can find it wherever
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: books are.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Sold and Amazon wherever your local Amazon is. That's yeah,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: and you'll have it within two or three days.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: And where can people find you online? Tell us about
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: your YouTube show?
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: Well, if you go to Tim's Vinyl Confessions dot com,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: that immediately brings up my YouTube channel. Uh. And I'm
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: approaching my tenth year. It'll be at the end of
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: this month. It'll be ten years since I've been doing this.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: And I made a lot of cool I met a
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: lot of cool people along the way, yourself included, and
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: met a lot of fans of bands that I thought
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: I was the only fan of. And you know that
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: eventually led to me, you know, being on my third book,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: actually working on my fourth.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: And we can't say what that fourth book is about.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: We will say that right now.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: I may or may not know what it's about, but
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: I'll zip the lip. But yeah, man, congrats on all
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: the great work and the work you do for these
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: bands that deserve the accolades and the attention.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: Thank you. That's it. It's in the books.