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Transcript

Finding Light with Lee Monyelle | Time For Fellowship S2E3 · Time For Fellowship Masonic Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, we have a very fun interview for you today.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I am flying solo.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Andrew had some personal matters to attend to, but I'm very excited to bring you this guest.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: So let's get this thing rolling.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Loosen up your ties and roll up your sleeves.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: It's time for fellowship with Matt and Andrew, with.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Matt and Andrew.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are not necessarily the views and opinions of the Grand Lodge of Wisconsin or any other Grand Lodge or any appended body.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: All right, I am here with a relatively new Master Mason, Brother Lee Moniel from West Allis Lodge.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on, Lee.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me, Brother Matt.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, of course we were super happy to be able to assist in your raising, which was just a great night.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, and not too long ago.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: That was just back in November, and in fact in this room, right right yeah we are recording in the lodge room a little different for us, but we needed to leave the conference room open for some other people, so we'll see how the audio quality works in here.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Actually, I was kind of worried about a big room being all echoey Right, but it's coming through pretty clear on the mic, so this might have to be our new recording spot.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Who knows, maybe this will be it.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: It's a little less dungeon-y in here, so how was your?
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: journey.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Let's start here.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: What brought you to Freemasonry?
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I would like to say it's divinely inspired.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I, uh, I I'm 45 now.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: When I turned 42, I had this crazy drive and hunger to just consume knowledge and specifically on like spiritual matters and that, and before that I will say I was probably spent two decades in various 12-step fellowships and, pretty big, I met my wife there.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: It was a big part of my life.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Anyway, something never clicked there, and I know this isn't about god and religion, but that was something that I just, I never, I always struggle with.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: I would almost consider myself atheistic at that point.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I turned 42 all of a sudden, I got this wild hair up my ass to just start looking at everything.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: And I looked at everything, every belief system, just like and I was.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I was really getting revved up about where these overlaps of information were.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: And, lo and behold, one day I comes across my Facebook feed about are you interested in masonry?
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: And I can only attribute that to I'm really interested in Kabbalah and things like that, or I don't know who the hell knows what that is, and I'm going to do my best not to swear um
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: but from there I was like you know what I'm, on this particular path and journey, my life has never been better and I've never.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I've always been someone who struggled with self-esteem and a lot of self self-medication and diagnosed a major depression and social indecision when I was like 12.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, so like even something like this is historically I'd be like just right, petrified, right right, and so, anyway, through an application I was like well, whatever it's in my way, it's in my path.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: I don't believe anything happens haphazardly.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, like it's kind of my view of things, like there's a reason behind everything, and then, like I don't know I think it was, maybe that was in december, and then the following february this was two years ago I got a call from brother josh bartz asking if I would be interested or where I was at with all that, and had some preliminary conversation.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Super jacked felt like a two-year-old on Christmas Day.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: It was phenomenal.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I come running upstairs, my wife and I we just came back from Chicago for our anniversary.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, and I go up here I tell her the good news.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: She goes what the is that?
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: And is that some misogynistic, woman-hating club Like?
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: instantly deflated.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, because he had told me that masonry is not meant to be divisive and basically we have to get.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: if you're married, we have to get the blessing of your wife, right, right and I was like well and not to interrupt, but yes, the your significant other being a supporting factor to your journey through free masonry is very critical, and I understand that massively, now even though I'm very early in my journey and then there was like nothing.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: I didn't hear anything until probably August, and part of that was I had heard that there was some restructuring going on, and then the lodges go dark and during the summer months for the most part.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Some lodges do.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Some lodges do.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: The lodges go dark and during the summer months for the most part, Some lodges do, Some lodges do.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: And then I got a call from Eric at West Allis 291, and I came in.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I met them guys at Natty Oaks.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: That was like my first introduction and I was nervous as hell.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I was just so nervous and I got to say this.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Like I said, I've been part of other groups of people.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: This has got to be the first group of men that I've been involved with where it's absolutely what you see is what you get.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: If somebody tells you I'm here or I'm interested or like whatever, like I'm here for you, like it's authentic, it's genuine, you can feel it and you can see it, you can see it demonstrated, right.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: And that was absolutely something like when you guys helped with my MM degree and there's countless other things too of just like where this, oh this isn't lip service, right.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: And that was something that I got a little jaded, because I remember talking with Jonas because he was my mentor through all this and I kept bringing up like comparisons.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: He'd almost say things to me like it almost looks like you're looking for problems in masonry.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: And I was like well, I suppose I am, but you know, and I just, but the other thing too, like bringing those topics up, like I they were dismissed, like and it wasn't like oh no, we don't talk about this.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Like go ahead and look Right, Like but there's, it's, it's pretty awesome man, like obviously it's filled with we're.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: We're all fallible human beings.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing's perfect, and I mean there is problems in masonry and also too, to that point there's you know it's, this isn't something like the, the warts of freemasonry, it's not something that has been like oh no, we don't talk about that.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Or it's like it's we understand our of where we're fallible, right, right, which is not common in society.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, that's the one of the beautiful things about structuring a, a, you know, an organization and a fraternity that is supposed to help men improve themselves is you have to be able to identify weaknesses and what can be done better, and you have to be problem solvers, because part of the whole point is to improve yourself.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: And if you're not willing to recognize the faults in the system or the faults in your lodge or the faults in yourself, there's no way to correct it and improve right, absolutely self.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: There's no way to correct it and improve Right Absolutely.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: If you're going to build a system that say, hey, we want to make this better than you need to be open and honest and identify where the problem areas are Right Absolutely.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: So you know, that's really interesting.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I find your to backtrack for a second.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: You know, going on one of those journeys and really like exploring like all you know and sitting down with like all the different holy journeys and really like exploring like all you know and sitting down with like all the different holy books and stuff like that.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's something I've always wanted to do, and and I actually this is.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: This is how it relates to your story.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: I turned 42 at the end of the month and I just picked up a copy of the bagada vita the other day to start reading, so like yes I'm I'm about to start venturing down that path myself, just because I, like you, a seeker of knowledge and you know I.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: When you look at a lot of these major organized religious systems, they do all have like a common theme and common elements to them.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: So i'm'm curious to start doing that, exploring myself.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: So we'll probably end up having a lot of conversations.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: And I just recently picked up a book on the Vedas, so when you want to take a look at that, that will absolutely pair with the Bhadavad Gita.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Very well, okay, yeah, that's the other thing too.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Like I never really read, like my stepdaughter would come she's my daughter, jordan would come over, or anybody be.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Like you're reading a book that isn't a comic book or has pictures in it.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: It's like yes, and I'm retaining it like it's.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: it's I don't sound like I'm fanboying for Freemasonry, but I suppose I am.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's it and real quick to go back with, to with my wife, with Nina she, uh, there was.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a matter of convincing her.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: In fact we were.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: And I'll plug it because I've watched it a bunch of times 33 and Beyond, which is like a semi-documentary on Freemasonry and on Prime.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: And she was sleeping while I was watching it and then at one point she woke up and she said to me she goes, you know what, if this is indeed what this is all about, I have no problem with you doing it Right.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: And I was like, yes, right, right, and it she is.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I told her when you had said, hey, would you mind being on the podcast?
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I told her she was genuinely happy for me.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: But she's noticed a change in me and in the very short time that I've been active here, yeah and so, like my employer, like it's really it.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: I never joined the military, even though I wanted to.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like I needed, I needed structure that I didn't have, that I didn't get, for whatever reason.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: But I'm getting it here now and this is outside of marrying my wife.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: This is the best decision I ever made in my life right on right and you brothers have been phenomenal.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: You're, you're the hospitality, like the mature masculinity.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Right, because this isn't a construction site where it's like it's like it is like where we we're bros, but it's like it's real, it's like you get down to the real stuff right for as much shit talking as we do.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: We also have a lot of serious conversations absolutely, and it's where one can feel.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can, you can feel free to be yourself and to be it's.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: You know it's okay to not be okay here right, right, exactly, and you know it goes back to and I know I've said it on the podcast a number of times iron sharpens iron.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: And yes, you know, one of my other things I've always said about freemasonry is freemasonry finds you when you're ready, like it.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: It weirdly is like that, yes, it it.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: It genuinely does work out that way, like people might go looking for it, but it finds you when you're ready.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: You know, and I think you do need to be at a certain point in your life where you are ready for it.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: You know, and it sounds like you definitely were at that place when you decided to join.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: You know, and we've always, you know, in the interactions I've managed to have with you since, I think since I went to your fellow craft or since you reached out, because you were listening to the podcast and stuff uh, you know, I've always appreciated your energy, that thank you that you're bringing around and, like I love your enthusiasm for it and please, fanboy all you want about me.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I sometimes feel like I'm too much.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: It's like I need to subdue that passion.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: But then at the same time, I guess maybe control it more or whatever.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: No, it's great when we first walked in this room.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Every time I walk in one of these lodges it's like I don't know, it's like a centering.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: It's like coming home.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: It's the weirdest feeling and that's one thing, probably the biggest takeaway Because I would have friends ask or my wife ask like well, what is it about?
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: What do you do?
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: And it's like I don't know, because you're literally joining this fraternity that you don't know anything really about until you go through it.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: And there's a slew of stuff online.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Some of it is terrible.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: A lot of it's terrible.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Some of it's like it's corruptedly true.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: It's just weird.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: You can't base it on that.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Right and you get your general overview.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: You know you're meeting a bunch of good dudes, you know they're friendly, you know you get along with them and you hear the dudes, you know they're friendly, you know you get along with them.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: And you know you hear the.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: You know we're active in our community.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: We believe in self-improvement.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: You know we, we try to make our community as a better place.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: We're charitable, we're all this.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: And you, you hear all the good stuff but yeah, until you really see how and why that good stuff is going to be implemented, yes, you, you you're going in blind.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 100 and it's like, but I love it.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: What are you doing?
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I'm enjoying it, right?
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I went to.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: I went to west alice for a year every every meeting and I was there for a half hour, in at six, out at 6 30, yep, ate food, met people.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Sometimes.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: I left her like, oh my god, I was a complete idiot and I've ruined my chances and or like whatever or right, but that's.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: They accepted me right, right.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Well, west alice has got a good group of guys over, yes, so I'm very, very grateful for the, the mentorship and just the brothers over there at that lodge.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: At lake lodge hayes as well been doing a little bit of traveling.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Been to prince hall twice actually, oh right on.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: You've actually has a really new master mason.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: You've done something I have yet to accomplish.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: I've wanted to go visit a prince hall lodge for a while we will all go again.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: It was it was literally I think my first time was a week after being raised here.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: We went there.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I got invited, along with with some brothers from Hayes, okay, and then brother Jonas and I went I think it was the end of November, cause a friend of mine was part of they had a quintuple master Mason degree and that was pretty intense, yeah, and to see him get raised and we become good friends over the last year and brothers and it's just.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Obviously there's differences and there's similarities and I know we're different jurisdictions, but that's something that I kind of feel like I want to be part of a bridge of, because there's so much that we can learn from one another.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Right, rightisconsin, wisconsin's fairly progressive compared to some jurisdictions on that front, like we can go visit.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, you know and, and that's most of the country now I, if there is any holdout states anymore, it's like two got four at most.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the last count I saw.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: But you know we also.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: We have it set up where we would allow us to plural them and them to plural us.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: But they have to change their rules to allow that because they don't allow any plural in, at least in wisconsin.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Like you join one lodge and you either transfer to another lodge or you stay at that lodge.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: You can't like be like like here, where you can be a part of lake and you can be a part of west alice and you can be a part of haze, and like you can't do that under their constitution.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: So you know, I I would really like to see that relationship further too, to the point of being able to do that.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I understand, though, like at this point, with how long both organizations have existed historically, yes, like everybody's concerned about somehow that leading into, like almost like, a merger, which I don't see ever happening because we both have our own cultures to maintain and our own histories to maintain.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Right and nobody wants to step.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: No, no, no that no, no, no, that would be a dilution of if that's the right word, but you would lose some.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I think there's something to because watching how they do that degree this is my first time seeing it too, after experiencing it Right, and then seeing the differences and then, or even just like how some of our Dugars and signs are, like some of the differences in there too, and and the explanation and their the grand lecturer, who was there that day had brought up of how ours, meaning our blue lodge, was different from prince hall as far as how me and jonas were signing right, but not saying that like this is wrong or right, like it's just it's different and here's the reasons why.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: And then he would, he would say as to why we do things the way we do right and why so it's just like it.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: That really speaks to me and like what is becoming just so much more evident too, is because I'm really like, when I came into this, like it was not so much for the social aspect and like for the learning and the yearning of the knowledge right then also understand that I need a community because I'm a little more of an introverted person, believe it or not?
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, fair, but then like that the brotherhood is so important because we're not these lone islands.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Like I need you, you know other people need me.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Like it's we need each other.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: We're interdependent is the word I'm looking for.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Right, well, and if you look at it like even from a knowledge perspective, how much knowledge do the brothers that careers, the different interests when it comes to esoterics, or you know stuff like that or little niche things that people get into, like even just barbecue, right, like, you know some of that stuff that you'd be like?
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I could figure that out, but now I have 10 guys I know that know a lot about that topic.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Pick their brain about to help me get started on it or whatever right you know.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: And you know that's the beautiful thing about being surrounded by a community of men and like a diverse community of men, that where you know you could be sitting next to a doctor, or you could be sitting next to somebody like me that distributes Little Debbie snack cakes all day right, like you know what I mean.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, and that is, that's another aspect of all this that I just it's, it's encouraging, it's like if this could really take on worldwide and us as a species of people like here we are, like we come into these lodges and when it was told to me, you know, it doesn't matter what you do on the outside, when you're in this room, we are all in the same, like we're all the same, it doesn't matter, right, and to actually see that happen and then also to have like people of different faiths and belief systems and to have that be a unifying thing where this is out in the world, we're killing each other over this.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Like there's so many, just so much hurt and just terrible things that we do to one another over this, that I mean we're able to coexist here.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: How come?
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Like that is it's really, it's really an awesome thing.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: You know that we one of the many awesome things that this fraternity possesses.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I 100% agree.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite stories and I'm going to say it's one of my favorite stories and then I'm going to totally blink on which president it was One of the presidents went to visit his lodge.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: One of the like 14 presidents that have been Masons went to visit his lodge.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: At the time his gardener was sitting in the east.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: That's what's up, man.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: He went and sat on the sidelines, right Like president of the United States, sat in a lodge where his gardener was worshipful.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Master right and secret service wanted to come in with him and he said, dude, he said to the secret service detail, I'm safer in that room with those brothers without you guys than I am out here with you guys.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Like that's powerful man, right?
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: So like create man.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to google which president it was now because it it's going to drive me nuts, Because that is, in my opinion, a story that truly demonstrates what on the level means right?
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: You know, he could have came in and been like, no, I want to sit.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: He was president of the United States Like.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: He could have probably been like, no, I'm going to come sit in the East, you know, and he might have even been a past master of that lodge.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: But, like, what are you going to say to the president?
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Correct, you know, but he went and sat on the sideline in Lodge while Gardner ran the meeting.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: You know, like that's truly impressive.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: And now I've got to look up which president it was Eisenhower, no, no.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, eisenhower, no, no, oh, that sounds like a roosevelt thing to do.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: That's, that's who it was.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I was thinking it was one of the roosevelts, I just could never remember.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: But uh, no.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: So obviously you know your journey through masonry has been pretty fulfilling, so far, I would say from what you're telling me, oh, 100, and I am just literally scratching the surface.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: I, I through this whole journey.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I've kind of had it in my head where, okay, I'm going to plural at Lake because I grew up in this area, my grandparents lived off a playing field and I would buy this building all the time and didn't realize what it was Right.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: And I want to plural at Hayes because that's where I've grown to know some brothers there.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: And then I want to go Scottish Rite and then like so this is kind of my thing.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I have this whole plan and then I'm here getting raised and everything kind of goes out the window.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: So one of the biggest things that has really occurred to me about masonry is it's a very experiential thing.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Like, even if I wanted to shout from the rooftops about all the jewels that we have here, like I don't know, how do you, you can't.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: It's like trying to explain to somebody the smell or taste of coffee that's never smelled or tasted it before.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Right, and I was given my Bible.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: I got a little emotional that night, but I got given my book, my sacred book of law, and I personally chose that particular one because I had so much resentment against it.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: And that's one of the other greatest things that has come from this is it doesn't matter what holy structure I go by.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: What used to be very like er has now been like there's a lot of love there and the mass temple church.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what it is.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I could see it in all of us, in all of it.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: It's dude, I nerd out on this stuff.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: So you almost felt like then I just want to circle back to that for a second.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: So you almost felt like then that that was your opportunity to dispel that like resentment.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, to kind of yes exactly To get to to make that right, because it wasn't.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Interactions with hurt people that I had over the years is what shaded my view of these things.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: It wasn't the essence of what these are Right right.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: No, I totally get that.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: That's actually very poetic.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: So along, well, we probably will just circle back to something that got said again, said already, but along those lines, what has your favorite experience been in masonry so far?
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: all right, so it hasn't been one specific one, but what it has been is I?
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: You know we get three study guides.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, essentially right, it has been first looking at that red book and then being told to memorize all these words.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: I can't remember when my wife tells me things to pick up from the grocery store and I go oh my God, I can't do this.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Then all of a sudden, boom, you get it done and I feel as though having the feeling of earning those books, going through that process, has probably been great.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: One of the greatest guests, because a lot of things, there's a lot of moving parts to all this is.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I'm proving to myself that I am much more capable than I give myself credit for, and I think that happens to a lot of us.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the fact that I've been told, not only by myself but everybody else, your memory shit, it sucks to then.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: To then like going, like, going through, boom, like doing this, I got I and I would tell jonah says I've earned this book.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: That was like it's very important for me that I do not perfectionist in the sense of of where I need it, because of an ego thing, but I've never put my all into anything.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Matt right, growing up like I half-assed a lot of stuff, yeah.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: So like there was this, like I'm leaving it all on the table.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna do this to the best of my ability at this given time right on, and then you know, go through the ea and then the fc and then the mm, and then I am good on the questions.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I am confident in the opening and closing of the obligation, the furthers.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: I got some work to do on that, yeah.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: But I'm going to get it.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I want to get it.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: That one takes a minute.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: That one takes a minute.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: When that was happening that night, I thought to myself oh, this is continuing to go Like, oh my God.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, try conferring that one and not screwing it up, I my God my, you guys.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I thankfully thankfully I was.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I was a little bit removed from having conferred one recently enough and with everything I had going on with the move, I was just like I don't have time to study right now so.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I called an audible and, you know, had worshipful brother Jeff do it, which was great.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: He does an excellent job at conferring degrees it was so good.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: And then to go back to like to like with my having this whole plan of stuff is I have for the next year?
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, I got installed as junior steward.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, congratulations yeah, right into the line.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, so same thing I did.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I had a hard enough time trying to figure out how to do the signs without dropping the the rod, the rod and then it's like I just it started to hit me and then, too, like there's so much stuff that's really packed into those three booklets.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like I, I do, I will eventually go those routes and I will eventually plural right, but I'm gonna spend my first year in blue lodge in my home.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I'm home anywhere, but definitely home and and like learn this and know this and, and I don't want to, it's not to become it right, but embody it, embody it, thank you yes, because there's there's a lot there like going through it, because, at least for me, the degrees are your head spinning.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, right, so try to also get to as many.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: I now understand why when you guys were saying get to as many as you can to actually see, be done.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Right, totally get that now.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's a fire hose exactly, and then also, too, I'm learning okay, so I'll fill out the book.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I answered all the questions and they're all right, but it's like it was very surface level.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I'm going but there's so much stuff in just those three books right of of the allegory and just the teachings and the embodiment of it.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: You can pick up Cloudy's little books about each one of the degrees and there's.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, andrew, and I could give you a reading list, please do.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: My to-be-read list is so ridiculously long right now and I have so many books on freemasonry at my house that I have not cracked the cover of yet I'm like I really got to get back to you know, and I was.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I was tied up there for a few years where I wasn't really reading because I was always studying to learn, like a degree conferral or something like that.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: And now that I'm out of the east I've gotten back to a little bit of reading.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: But I mean I still, I still have, you know, we have an EA coming up at the end of the month, nice, and then I'm conferring the MM at the Day of Light.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: So you know, I read one book right after I came out of the East and now I'm studying again.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Man, I know.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, that was the other thing too.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: I wanted to say was.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: So I got to do two interviews recently as well.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: We had two petitioners and being a part of that and not being not really knowing like totally being guided through that, but just seeing that process too.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know I think one of the guys are going to one of the candidates are going to be going daylight and one's going to be going the traditional route and I personally I love both of them.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Like I think it's situational for the person.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: In my case, I am grateful as hell that my mentor did Day of Light, because if he didn't, I don't know who I would have had, and he was somebody, brother Jonas, who figured out how to translate the stuff that's coming out of my mouth, that when I talk to people a lot of times, they're like it's.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I think you leave half the conversation in your head yeah, yeah, I know that feeling so like it.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: I know people have opinions and that's great, that's cool.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Everybody has their own opinion on that, but I, absolutely I'm glad that it's it's a thing right and that it's for each person.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: For me, I needed to go the traditional route because I need the discipline.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: It was the right path for me, right right.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: No, and I hear you on that.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I've always said that the Day of Light is like it's necessary.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I prefer traditional, I think there's more to the experience, but the Day of Light's also necessary.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: You know, I would rather have somebody go to the Day of Light and see three solid degrees than have their lodge not be able to put on a proper degree or have it take forever because they struggle to get the help to do a degree or something like that.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: To do a degree or something like that, I would hate to see a candidate not get all three of their degrees because their work schedule is crazy and they really needed to get it done in one day or whatever.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: You know like there are justifications, there are reasons, but I think traditional is better.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: And to that point, that's kind of what we were hovering, because things were the way they were at my lodge and I was thinking, thinking, well, the conversation came up that well, if there's another day of light coming and something you might want to look at, because we have x, y and z going on, so this may not happen this year, right, and then so I was.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: I was leaning that way and then I just happened to be talking to.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: You know we all knew you and we didn't feel like, after you put in all the work to post your EA and all the work to post your FC, we didn't feel like it would be right for you to go get your MMA at the day of life and I am eternally grateful for you, brothers, because it was, oh my God, it was so amazing.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: The cake was great.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: The just yeah that is some I will never like.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I was very struck by the EA degree.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: It was very profound for me.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: The FC was very profound, right, but the MM, not just because it's that, because I don't have a favorite degree, but just what was put on here and what the experience was, and it's just the history of the building too Like I can't describe it.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: It made me cry at the end and I'm ashamed to say that, right, hey, no, you shouldn't be.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I mean it is, it is a life-changing experience, absolutely, is you know?
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: It really kind of kind of wakes you up a little bit yeah, and you're like oh crap, like I can do better.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Huh, so no, that's awesome.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Have you ventured down?
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: How far have you ventured down the reading road as far as Masonic books go?
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Do you have?
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: a favorite one so far.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Right away in the beginning, I picked up Morals and Dogma.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's heavy.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: And that's a heavy one.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just put that one off to the side.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Albert Pike basically wrote A Stream of Consciousness heavy, and that's a heavy one.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just put that one off to the side.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Just, elbert pike basically wrote a stream of consciousness that's my understanding.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm beginning to understand I'll I I take that one on about one thing a year.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Okay, I started, I think I made it past the first page and my brain was like, oh, I don't, and I think I hadn't even posted my FC or did my FC yet.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: So that to the side.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Now I will say my plan is to start a book study at West Allis this year.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, right on.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: So you will definitely be getting an invite.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: And this book that I am totally in love with right now is by WL Wilmshurst the Meaning of Masonry.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Yep, read that one.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: It's been a while, but yeah, I read that one.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: I found an audio version of it too, so I'm a painter by trade, Okay, and so I have the ability to throw the earpod in and just listen?
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Yep, Because I'll send stuff to people like dude.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: This is five hours.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Well, what do you mean?
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: It's a day of work for me.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I've dabbled with audio books, but I'm more of a podcast, while I work guy but I work by myself.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: But lately one of my coworkers has wanted to sit on the phone all day, so I'm a little behind.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: So there's that one, and then I think it's Mystery of Modern Masonry.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: It's by Charles H Vail.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: I believe, but what I'll do is, if you don't mind, I'll send you.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: There's two pretty good audio readings of it on YouTube.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that you can just kind of, even if it's an AI reading, it's pretty good.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: That's the one thing I don't have YouTube premium I like as much.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: As I want to start watching more stuff on YouTube, I have to have my phone screen unlocked and YouTube open, otherwise it oh yeah, you know and I'm like that doesn't count for count while I'm at work.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: That doesn't work because the app I use to write my orders and stuff that's all on my phone, so I can't just like write something open.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Oh real quick before I forget.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Sorry, this is where I get excited too.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Good, let's see what do I have?
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: So those two books that I really enjoy a lot, that I've been pecking at for a while and then lost.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Keys of free masonry by manly p hall I'm a huge manly p hall fan, for I know certain people.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: People have their opinions of him, which is fine.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Well, and I find a lot of value in stuff he writes about a lot of times, people's opinions on him are based off of a book that he wrote before he was a Freemason Right.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Right, so you know, people can change their minds.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Is it Joseph Fort Campbell?
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I can't think of the name of his book right now.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: He's got a really good one too.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I've gotten about halfway through and I'll probably have to start from the beginning, because it's been so long since I read that first half Gotcha.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: But that one's, that one's pretty good.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I'll have to.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I'll have to send you a few when I, when my brain's working and I look at my bookshelf and go oh yeah, let's write that please do, because I have a ton of books too that I haven't read right that not just like that outside of masonry, but just with all this because it's all interconnected.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: But I remember a very wise brother once said ABL always be learning.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Right, right, yes, for sure, and there's a lot of knowledge in those books and it's good to digest.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Just don't explode your brain in the process, right?
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: That's where that's, yeah, the balance you got to take.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you got to give yourself a break and take it in smaller doses.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, there's a lot of books out there, though.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: That's what.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: I'll jump on the computer and kill zombies for a while or something like that.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Those cloudy books, though, that are about each degree.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: I highly recommend those.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I will definitely check that out, thank you.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: In fact, I might have a PDF version of them that I could send you 10-4.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: So let's see, so we talked about books, we talked about a whole bunch of other stuff.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: There was something.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Oh right, so you just recently got installed as junior steward, so I know that's pretty early on and you're fairly new.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: What are you thinking?
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Are you thinking you're going to try to run it all the way through the line 100%, right on?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: What are you thinking?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Are you thinking you're going to try to run it all the way through the line 100%, right on?
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Yep, I'm going for it.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Sweet, what's that?
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: That's seven years.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, if you sit in every chair, yeah, it takes seven years.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: So I skipped from junior steward to senior deacon.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, you can do that, yeah, yeah, if the lodge needs, so, if there's like needs.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: So in our particular case, when I was sitting junior steward, the senior steward didn't ever want to be anything but a steward, so he wasn't moving up and our junior deacon stepped out of line.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: So that meant if I was willing to, I went all the way up to senior deacon.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: But then I spent two years at senior deacon because of covid, so that kind of gave me that second to go that was moving a little fast right you know, and then obviously did junior warden, senior warden and worshipful.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: But no, it's a great experience and I look forward to seeing you progress through those chairs and your knowledge increase.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: And the one piece of advice that I will give you that you've probably heard, because I know you listen to the podcast two pieces of advice is always make sure you're doing your job.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: It's probably going to turn into three pieces of advice.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Honestly, you know, like if you have a good idea, don't be afraid to bring it to the lodge.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Don't sit on it for six years till you get to the East and then be like hey, yeah, so I had this idea six years ago and I think we should start doing it now.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: If you think it'll benefit your lodge, bring it up to the people that have the authority to you know, help you move forward with it.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Right, and taking every piece of advice you can get from everybody who sat in that chair before, and start planning it now.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, like, have it be one of those things that's always in the back of your head, okay, you know just kind of like oh yeah, I gotta file that away, for you know, that might be, that might be something cool and a little bit different that can make my year unique, right, you know, or something like that.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Or just generally going, well, I like the way that guy does stuff.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Didn't like the way he did it.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: So much you know and and just kind of get an idea on how you're going to dial it in.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: And you know, ask, ask.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: When you get closer, ask past masters for advice like what did you do in your year, what worked, what didn't?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: You know what's your one piece of advice to get me through?
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know, and and tap into those knowledge bases that you have surrounding you.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Right, you know?
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: that's why past masters exist there's, it's definitely a closed mouth what they say.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: A closed mouth don't get fed and it's definitely if you ask you will get an answer right, but people don't know what you need if you don't ask right, right, right so like and that's something that I'm understanding and getting a handle on.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this stuff don't get spoon-fed to you.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: It's not like like some of it does, but if there's something you want to like, when they say, if you have questions, ask, ask.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: That's not, it's not lip service, it's like whatever you need, if you need something.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: I was just on the way before coming here, I was listening to I think it was the b episode, you guys, that just came out today.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yep and uh, we were talking.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: We talked about a few different of the lesser known masonic well, lesser discussed masonic symbols in there which is a really good episode.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: You guys should check it out.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: But talking about that like, yeah, they're, and I'm gonna butcher it now, but it was either you or andrew talking about that like, yeah, this is not lip service.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: When right, right when if you need help with something that's when we were saying, like, you know, a lot of times when people say if you need anything, when somebody's going through a tough spot, that you know that's, a lot of people are just doing it lip service, like they're saying it because it's the right thing to say and they don't actually mean it, whereas when I say that to another brother or anybody else, I like legit mean it and you know you can expect that out of your brothers.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Like, if you need anything, like obviously within reason, yeah, I can't guarantee that I'm going to be able to drop whatever I'm doing at that exact moment for it.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe I can, maybe I can't guarantee that I'm going to be able to drop whatever I'm doing at that exact moment for it.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe I can, maybe I can't.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: You know, if I'm in the middle of work I might not be able to.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: But, like, if you need anything, I will do my damnedest to do it for you or find somebody else that can help get it done.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Right, you know, and that's that's what we do for each other.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: That's what this, that's what brotherhood means, right.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: I've seen that take place.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: And again, very new baby Mason, baby Master Mason.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: But, I've seen that play out.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: I've seen where there's been, we'll say, two brothers not having the same opinion on something in lodge and it not turning into something that I am used to seeing, which is damn near fistfights happening, right, oh geez, it's something that if you didn't know what was going on, you wouldn't have known that anything even happened, right, which is like it's.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: It's these examples that are not only talked about, but you see them lived out, like the living examples of what these brothers are saying and that you can hang your hat on.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: That right, it's, it's a, it's a pretty amazing thing and it's it losing my words for it, but is I?
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: I got a little jaded to stuff like that from just previous life experiences Of my own.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: I take full responsibility for that.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Well, we all have stuff, and we all have stuff that influences who we are now and is going to skew our perspectives on certain things.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: You know, skew our perspectives on certain things.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, and then you need to see it the other way to bring that perspective back into balance.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Right, like you know, I was, I was and I'm I'm pretty open about this I was pretty jaded after doing six years of security at a hospital that was pretty much servicing the inner city.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: You know, like I, I came out of that job fairly jaded because I got to see, you know, some of the worst situations that people could be put in on a regular basis and you just kind of walk out of it like having a very skewed perspective of humanity and you know that took a little bit to overcome and you know seeing the other side of things, seeing people you know in regular situations and you know acting the way they should be, to kind of bring that perspective back.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: But I love that.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, you know it, it takes time, right, you know, our, our, our perspective on the world is based on our experiences.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, and those experiences hopefully bring it to a balance where you're like, okay, so it's not just that, but it's not just that either, you know, and I wish it was all that but to your, to your point on that though, too, like and we got the, the checkered floor here like it's, it's duality yeah, yeah and both is both is true, it's not.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: It's not one or the other, it's, it is both, which is can really mind bend or make it seem like you're flippy floppy, but that, I mean, that's what reality is.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: It's right.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: It's where and sometimes like the verbiage of of we make good men better.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: I kind of toy with that a little bit because it's like well, what I'd ask myself, what constitutes a good man?
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Like, do I consider myself a good man or a bad man?
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Or I've done this or that, or it's like, but yeah, that's the whole picture.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I guess I, to be fair, I've been both.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: You know, I've been somebody that I wouldn't want in my house at one point, and I've also been somebody who I get praised for at work, for being the way I am.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: So it's this complete spectrum of humanness that we have.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: And what's really cool is there's certain things that I was okay with doing in my 20s that I can't even imagine doing now.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Right, and I'll be quite frank here, I was surprised that my petition got accepted.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not a felon, but've I've.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: There's enough, like, a lot of problems with drugs and that growing up yeah, a lot of charges in that and with possession and things like that.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Right, like, and that's something too that I not that I was doing that coming in here, but like other other vices where I smoked.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Since I was 13 I've been.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I've been quit smoking for, I think, like six months now, and that's because of things going on in here that I'm learning here and there's things, there's aspects that I wouldn't think twice about doing pre-masonry or even or maybe it's just pre-growing up and getting my head out of my ass that it's like no, that's unacceptable, that is not.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: It's not that.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: But also, in the same breath, I'm not going to judge somebody who's doing that, because I feel most of it.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: I think we're born with the goodness and the spark in our heart and then, over time, our experiences shape who we are and then we become lost and then it's just we do what we got to do to survive or whatever.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Right, everyone's fighting a battle.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: you'll never know about.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: You know so, and you know what is the worst thing to ever happen to person A.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Might seem like, oh, that's not all that bad to person B, but that is still the worst thing that ever happened to person A and the worst thing that ever happened to you is the worst thing that ever happened.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Correct and we are responsible for who like for for our.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I had to take personal responsibility for myself at some.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's definitely stuff for, like child origin stuff, thinking about what might this happen when I was young, and there's definitely like there's value in that, but to stay stuck there, you just become the perpetual, forever victim and at some point we have to take personal responsibility for ourselves and that is I guess that's been one of the greatest gifts that Masonry has given me is this has been proposing how to do that in a healthy way, to, yeah, be responsible for myself and my actions.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Right on, yeah, yeah, and you know right, we all have those experiences, like you know, when we were younger, like oh yeah, maybe that is why I do this now.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: But identifying it and then overcoming it.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, is the important part?
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Just identifying right, but identifying it and then overcoming it.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Yes is the important part, just identifying it and be like nope, I get to be a victim the rest of my life because of my environment.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, right like nurture, not nature right and, uh, you know, identifying it with the goal of overcoming it correct is is the ultimate goal.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: Right, and you know it's it.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: It takes a lot of fortitude to be willing to overcome that right, to identify it and then not just like live with it and go nope, I get, I get to just be this way because of x.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm actually going to put in the work to be better than what that, yeah, made me into right, so awesome and that's a hell of a feeling man, to look at yourself and be like, oh, 90 of the shit that you got going wrong in your life is because of you, right, right, to really to take that look at yourself and be like I don't.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: I don't like this and I am a big portion of where I'm at.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: But I guess the beautiful flip side of that is I'm also the key to get myself out of that hole With having guidance from other people, in this case, other brothers or just other people who have that light to guide you to where you're trying to go.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Iron sharpens iron I love it.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: All right, lee, I think that's a great place to leave it.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Beautiful.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for coming on the show.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate it, appreciate your energy, appreciate your support of the podcast and listening and everything else, and it was a joy to have you on and we'll have to check back in and have you on again in a little bit, once you get to dive a little bit deeper into everything.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: It was my pleasure and I look forward to coming back and visiting again and pluraling at some point.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: If you're not already, make sure you're following us on all of our socials and if you would like to reach out to the podcast, please email us at timeforfellowship at gmailcom.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: You have a great day, everybody.