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Mars Life Mysteries, Black Hole Stars & Quasi Moons Unveiled · Space Nuts: Astronomy Insights & Cosmic Discoveries

0:00
Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks for joining us. Once again,
0:02
this is Space Nuts, where we talk astronomy
0:05
and space science, uh, of all kinds,
0:08
not just the ordinary kind. Uh, my name is
0:10
Andrew Dunkley, I'm your host and it's great
0:13
to have your company again. Coming up in this
0:15
episode, have we found evidence that, uh,
0:18
life once existed on Mars? If you read the
0:21
popular press, definitely it's life. It's
0:24
there. But, uh, it could be something else.
0:27
Uh, scientists may have discovered a new
0:29
class of black hole stars. What's that
0:32
all about? I think it's something we've
0:34
already talked about. And we said it was
0:35
something else. Well, now it's something else
0:38
again. And another
0:40
quasi moon attaches itself to Earth
0:43
just like a house fly. That's all coming up
0:46
in this episode of space nuts. 15
0:49
seconds.
0:49
Voice Over Guy: Guidance is internal. 10,
0:52
9. Ignition sequence start.
0:55
Space nuts. 5, 4, 3,
0:58
2. 5, 4, 3, two, one.
1:01
Space nuts. Astronauts report it feels
1:03
good.
1:04
Andrew Dunkley: And giggling in the background there like a.
1:06
Ah, toddler who's found a kitten is Professor
1:09
Fred Watson Watter, an astronomer at large.
1:11
Hello, Fred Watson.
1:13
Professor Fred Watson: Hi, Andrew. It's funny you should mention
1:15
that we did find a couple of kittens not very
1:17
long ago.
1:17
Andrew Dunkley: Oh, yeah, they're everywhere. I think,
1:20
I think cats are starting to out, um, outgrow
1:23
the, the growth rate of another pest
1:26
species in this country, which is the
1:28
kangaroo. Um, but yeah, feral
1:30
cats, wow. They're one of the biggest
1:32
problems in the world.
1:34
Professor Fred Watson: They certainly are, especially in areas like
1:36
yours. We keep ours under a short leash just
1:39
to make sure they don't go feral and give
1:41
them a talking to every day. Um,
1:45
anyway, yeah, yes.
1:46
Andrew Dunkley: I've noticed on Instagram people post a lot
1:49
of cat videos and one of the common threads
1:51
at the moment is cats sneaking into the house
1:54
with a mouse and dropping it in the pot of
1:56
food. And I'm thinking, hang on a minute,
1:59
there are too many of these for it all to be
2:01
happening regularly. I think
2:04
they're AI, they're AI. And it's starting to
2:07
annoy me that there's so much of this garbage
2:11
that's being.
2:12
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, I heard this morning
2:14
about, um, AI, uh, all about animals doing
2:17
funny things. Somebody was talking about
2:20
rabbits bouncing on a trampoline.
2:22
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I've seen that one.
2:23
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, Grandma was very impressed and uh,
2:26
granddaughter said, grandma, it's AI.
2:29
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, it's fake. Yeah. And, and look,
2:32
they're very clever and they're very good,
2:33
but I don't want to see it if it's not real.
2:35
It's not real.
2:36
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's Right.
2:37
Andrew Dunkley: It doesn't matter how clever the. The
2:39
artificial intelligence is,
2:42
it's not real and it just annoys me.
2:46
Anyway, that's just me.
2:48
Professor Fred Watson: Um, so if you're a creator of,
2:51
uh, AI Rubbish watching this show, don't, uh,
2:54
worry. Andrew doesn't mean it, really.
2:59
Andrew Dunkley: Well, I mean it to a certain degree. I mean,
3:01
yes, other people enjoy it, that's fine. It's
3:03
just not for me. But, yeah,
3:06
now we've got a fair bit.
3:09
Oh, by the way, was great to see you and
3:12
Huw and Marnie the other day, um, while we
3:14
were down in Sydney with, um, my wife's
3:17
sister in hospital. So we spent a few days
3:19
down there, uh, but it was good to be able to
3:21
catch up and see you for the first time in, I
3:23
reckon, nearly a decade. It probably is,
3:25
yeah. Yeah. I mean, I see you once a week,
3:28
but, yeah, face to face, uh, in your
3:30
lovely home, uh, which has that horrible
3:33
view.
3:37
Professor Fred Watson: We think it's all right.
3:39
Andrew Dunkley: And, and um, managing to drag Huw in
3:42
the. Out of the studio for, um. Yeah, for
3:44
lunch.
3:45
Professor Fred Watson: That was terrific.
3:46
Andrew Dunkley: So thank you to you and Marnie for putting on
3:49
a lovely spread. We had a great time. Pity we
3:51
couldn't stay much longer, uh, than a couple
3:53
of hours. But duty, uh, called.
3:56
Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
3:56
Andrew Dunkley: Of the hospital. So. Yeah, no, terrific,
3:59
thank you.
4:00
Uh, now, uh, question one. Well, not question
4:03
one. Um, topic one. Have
4:05
we found evidence that life once existed
4:08
on Mars? Now, this story's got a lot of
4:10
traction. It's popping up everywhere. It's
4:13
sort of been in the news for a week or two
4:15
now, but it's
4:18
obviously, uh, one of those science
4:21
stories that grabs the imagination.
4:23
Have we found evidence of life on Mars? Now,
4:26
the popular press is saying now that we have
4:29
found evidence of life on Mars,
4:32
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Well, hang
4:34
on a minute. They're jumping the gun. But
4:37
it's called clickbait, I think. What, uh,
4:40
is the story?
4:42
Professor Fred Watson: Life, Jim, but not as we know it. I think,
4:46
um, it's actually, uh, a
4:48
geological formation, Andrew. It's
4:51
uh, basically a rock which
4:54
has been analysed by the Perseverance
4:57
Rover. Uh, uh, like all rocks
5:00
that are analysed by, um, not
5:03
just Perseverance, but other rovers on Mars.
5:05
It's got a name. It's called Chavaja Falls.
5:07
I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. Um,
5:11
it's, um, a rock that has
5:15
a few, uh, characteristics. Uh, and
5:19
the particular one that's got people excited
5:21
is what they're calling leopard spots, um,
5:24
which, uh, they, uh, say
5:27
the best explanation for these leopard
5:29
spots is biological processes.
5:33
And this comes from
5:36
actually a geoscientist and planetary
5:38
scientist at, uh, Stony Brook university
5:41
in the U.S. now, the
5:44
critical thing here, uh, is
5:47
that, uh, this is still on Mars.
5:50
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.
5:51
Professor Fred Watson: And the Perseverance has
5:53
collected a sample of that rock. Uh,
5:56
and you and I have spoken before about the
5:59
way these samples are collected and put in
6:01
little cylinders, uh, uh, metal cylinders
6:04
for later retrieval. The date for
6:07
retrieval basically goes
6:10
backwards at I think, one year per year. Uh,
6:13
we don't know when that's going to happen
6:15
because the retrieval mission
6:18
is, uh, not in good shape at the moment. I
6:21
think that's probably still a fair comment.
6:22
Uh, we might hear more soon. Anyway,
6:26
the best analysis that you can do now is with
6:28
perseverance itself. Now, Perseverance is
6:31
not, um, uh, uh,
6:34
devoid of lots of instrumentation, uh,
6:37
that are designed to look for exactly this
6:39
kind of thing. Um, and so
6:42
that's why the excitement has come about
6:44
because, uh, there are a number of features
6:47
about this rock that, uh, tell
6:50
you that just maybe, just maybe,
6:53
uh, these leopard spots came from
6:55
biological processes. So,
6:59
um, let me see if I can get the story right.
7:03
Uh, it's, uh, basically,
7:06
uh, a rock that is.
7:09
Has what you might call veins in it. It's got
7:12
other material in it. And the other material
7:15
is what suggests that this rock was
7:18
formed in running water. Can't remember what
7:20
it is, actually. Um, it's, uh. It's, you
7:23
know, basically a mineral formation.
7:25
Um, but, uh, so that tells you
7:28
that there was. There was water present. We,
7:30
we know that because that's why
7:33
Perseverance went to Jezero Crater, because
7:35
that was once a lake and it had a, a river
7:37
delta flowing into it or a river flowing into
7:40
it that made a river delta. And that's the
7:42
area in which this rock was collected. But,
7:45
um, the, the.
7:50
The bottom line is that these, these leopard
7:52
spots. And I'm sorry, I'm groping a little
7:54
bit here because I'm not a mineralogist and
7:56
I'm not actually a chemist. Uh, they are rich
7:59
in iron phosphate and iron
8:02
sulphide, uh, probably
8:05
in minerals which I hadn't actually heard of.
8:07
Vivianite and grigite.
8:10
Uh, but these phosphates
8:13
have great significance, uh,
8:16
in terms of their, you know, the biological
8:18
importance. And so what
8:21
is being suggested is that
8:24
there could be the product.
8:27
And I'm actually quoting here from,
8:30
uh, the Science Alert piece written by
8:32
Michelle Starr, a great name for somebody who
8:35
writes about this kind of thing. Um,
8:38
it's, uh, Essentially
8:42
they're thought to be the product of what
8:45
are called electrochemical reduction and
8:48
oxidation. And they're usually known as
8:50
redox reactions involving organic carbon,
8:53
either biological or non
8:55
biological. But then there's a quote from
8:58
uh, an astrobiologist at Texas A and M
9:01
University which is it's not just
9:04
the minerals, it's how they are, uh,
9:07
arranged in these structures that suggests
9:09
that they formed through the redox cycling of
9:12
iron and sulphur. On Earth, things like this
9:15
sometimes form in sediments where microbes
9:17
are eating organic matter and breathing rust
9:20
and sulphate. Their presence on Mars raises
9:23
the question, could similar
9:25
processes have occurred there? That's from
9:27
Michael Tice of Texas A and M University.
9:30
Uh, but then I think this is the
9:33
critical part and um, I'm once again quoting
9:35
Michelle Starr here from our article. This is
9:38
where it gets really interesting. The team
9:40
modelled different processes that can produce
9:43
the observed mineral composition of the
9:45
samples. While they were able to identify
9:48
an abiotic process that reduces sulphate to
9:51
sulphide to produce a result similar to what
9:53
is observed in the rocks, that process is
9:56
extremely slow and requires a either
9:59
high acidity or temperatures in
10:02
excess of 150 to 200 degrees
10:05
Celsius. Mars is certainly capable of
10:08
producing acidic conditions and high
10:10
temperature through volcanism. However, the
10:12
rocks show no other signs of being subjected
10:15
to that level of heat nor ever being
10:18
exposed to a low ph, in other words acidity.
10:21
And so what they're saying is
10:24
that because um, of the
10:26
absence of uh, other indicators,
10:30
what you're left with is not the possibility
10:32
of acidity or volcanism. You're left with
10:34
biological processes. So it's a
10:37
long deductive process. Uh,
10:40
and uh, it's a paper that's appeared
10:43
in Nature, that's the leading journal
10:46
for this kind of thing. So uh, I think it
10:48
might be something we take seriously. Um, but
10:51
the problem is, um, you know, as uh,
10:54
Michelle Starr goes on to say, it's going to
10:55
be difficult to learn more without studying
10:57
the rocks themselves. Perseverance's suite of
11:00
instruments is extremely limited compared to
11:02
what geologists can accomplish here on Earth.
11:04
And the researchers are itching to get their
11:06
hands on the collected samples. I bet they
11:08
are too.
11:09
Andrew Dunkley: And that could be a long, long, long
11:11
way off. So we're sitting in here on
11:14
potential evidence of past life on Mars
11:17
or not, and we can't look at it
11:21
except for the photos that come from.
11:24
Professor Fred Watson: The analysis by Perseverance is,
11:27
uh, instruments. I mean in some ways um,
11:30
a discovery like this might spur the
11:34
um, And I'm sure they don't need it because
11:36
there's lots going on behind the scenes. But
11:38
it might spur NASA and perhaps ESA
11:41
to um, get their act together in terms of
11:44
this sample return mission. You probably
11:45
remember it was all planned and it was all
11:47
going through the processes, but was going to
11:49
cost $11 billion.
11:51
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.
11:51
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, and that this is in the previous
11:54
administration, it's not the Trump
11:55
administration. The previous one that was
11:58
felt to be, you know, one step too far.
12:01
Um, and um, it needed to be made cheaper
12:04
and that's I think still where the um, where
12:07
the situation lies.
12:09
Andrew Dunkley: There is talk that Elon will do it.
12:12
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. Elon I think offered to do
12:14
it for um, $3.50 or something like
12:17
that. Um, uh,
12:20
it is possible that Elon could mount a
12:22
mission to do that. Uh, and I'm sure
12:25
SpaceX is scratching their head and planning
12:27
away for exactly that.
12:29
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I hope he does.
12:31
Yes, um, watch this
12:33
space. But it's potential excitement
12:37
in terms of finding another world that
12:40
had life on it. We often speculate
12:43
about these things. Uh, and
12:45
it's as you and I have said, it's only a
12:47
matter of time before we find some form
12:50
of microbial life,
12:53
either current or historic, in the solar
12:56
system. Um, this might be it, it might
12:59
not. Um, but we can't do
13:02
anything until we get the samples. And that's
13:04
the frustrating part.
13:06
Professor Fred Watson: It is interesting. One of the things we
13:07
talked about, um.
13:10
Yeah, when, when, when you were um, on uh,
13:13
you know, touring the world with Heidi was
13:16
um, some work that was done.
13:18
Andrew Dunkley: It was actually with, with Judy but. Yeah,
13:20
that I understand.
13:21
Professor Fred Watson: I talked with Heidi. You went with Judy.
13:25
I wasn't suggesting that Judy was here and
13:28
Heidi was there.
13:30
Andrew Dunkley: I know.
13:32
Professor Fred Watson: When you were touring the world, uh, I spoke
13:35
with Heidi about um,
13:38
uh, something that was recog recognised in
13:41
the UK that um, there is a,
13:44
I can't remember the exact details but it was
13:47
a combination of mass spectrometers and some
13:50
sort of spec, some other sort of spectrometer
13:52
that you can bring to bear on
13:55
uh, samples to detect whether
13:58
there are living uh, organisms
14:01
there. Um, it detects uh, the
14:04
um, nuclear, sorry, molecular bonds
14:07
within lipids, uh, which are, you know, the
14:10
things that make cell walls and things of
14:12
that sort. Um, and that's already on Mars.
14:14
Uh, in fact pretty well all the
14:17
landers that have ever gone to Mars have
14:19
carried this, this kind of equipment. Um,
14:22
but there you're looking for living
14:24
organisms and here we're talking about
14:26
something that's probably very Long dead,
14:28
perhaps long dead for 3 billion years or
14:30
something like that. So it's not as easy as
14:32
that.
14:33
Andrew Dunkley: No, indeed. But um,
14:36
we'll just keep our fingers crossed and hope
14:38
that sometime in the not too distant future
14:41
they'll get these samples back and we'll be
14:43
able to find out. Absolutely. Uh,
14:46
and if you'd like to chase up that story,
14:48
it's on the Science Alert website or you can
14:50
read the paper that has been published in
14:53
Nature and Jordy wants to read it
14:56
right now. But he's going to have to be
14:57
patient. He was the first person that greeted
15:00
us at your place the other day.
15:02
Professor Fred Watson: As he always does.
15:04
Andrew Dunkley: And I say person because a lot of people
15:05
consider their dogs to be people and that's
15:08
fine. This is Space Nuts Andrew Dunkley here
15:11
with Professor Fred Watson Watson. Um.
15:15
Professor Fred Watson: Okay, we checked all four systems and being
15:17
with a girl, Space Nuts.
15:19
Andrew Dunkley: Now to another discovery. Uh, or
15:22
maybe it's a discovery, uh, and it sort of
15:25
carries on from something we spoke about last
15:27
week when we asked the question,
15:30
have we, hey Jordy, have
15:33
we discovered a primordial black
15:36
hole? Um, now they're saying no
15:39
because we may have discovered a new class of
15:41
black hole stars. They're ah, the
15:44
same stories one end or the other or they're
15:46
different completely.
15:48
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, it's really interesting because
15:52
it's the evidence that's the same story.
15:55
Andrew Dunkley: Yes.
15:55
Professor Fred Watson: And I think on Space Nuts we've now covered
15:58
this three times and it's changing.
16:01
Yeah, and it keeps changing. The little red
16:03
dots that um, are being detected
16:06
by uh, the James Webb telescope
16:09
at very, very great distances, very high
16:11
redshifts as we put it. Uh, in other words,
16:13
these are things that we see when the
16:16
universe was in its infancy. And
16:19
so um, the little red dots,
16:22
uh, have been thought to be galaxies and have
16:25
been thought to be um, evidence of
16:27
primordial black holes. But um,
16:30
some recent work has uh, once again
16:33
looked at the little red dots. Uh,
16:36
this is um,
16:39
basically a group, um, headed by
16:42
uh, scientists at Pennsylvania State
16:44
University in the us. Um,
16:48
we thought there were galaxies, um, and
16:51
they're red partly because they're highly
16:53
redshifted. That's to say the light
16:56
from them has been stretched by the expansion
16:58
of the universe because it's been travelling
17:00
for 13.5 years or something of
17:03
that sort. Um, but um,
17:06
the latest is in,
17:09
in some ways even more intriguing
17:12
and it's because uh,
17:15
they actually uh, the, the, the,
17:18
the new research uh, suggests
17:21
that you are looking
17:24
not at galaxies but basically
17:27
at uh, gigantic stars.
17:30
Um, so Single stars, which
17:33
are huge, uh, and
17:36
possibly at their centre, have a
17:39
black hole. So what you've got here is a
17:42
process that, you know, it's, it's
17:44
independent of galaxy formation. We, we now
17:47
think that the black holes build up their
17:50
mass, uh, very early in the, in the universe
17:53
and that acts as a mass concentrator and gas
17:55
falls into it. The gas form stars and you get
17:58
galaxies around the, around the black holes,
18:00
which very quickly become super massive.
18:02
Yeah, but, um, the idea
18:05
here is that the gas has simply
18:08
concentrated around the black hole and
18:10
got hot. Um, uh, so it's not
18:14
basically nuclear
18:17
fusion that's making them shine,
18:20
which is what happens in stars, but
18:23
the black hole in the centre,
18:26
that's essentially, uh,
18:29
accreting the matter, it's pulling in the
18:31
matter. Uh, and the energy
18:34
from that process is what makes them
18:37
luminous. It's a bit like, you know, we know
18:39
that accretion discs around a black hole, for
18:42
example, in the centre of our own galaxy,
18:44
that disc of material swirling around the
18:46
black hole gets very hot
18:49
and it releases both X rays and
18:51
radio waves, which we see
18:54
as the object Sagittarius, a star in the
18:57
radio spectrum. So it's that kind of process.
18:59
It's the process of black, uh, holes,
19:02
uh, pulling things in, making them compress
19:05
very high and getting very excited.
19:08
Uh, that. That actually gives the
19:10
energy of the star itself.
19:13
And by star I'm putting in inverted commas
19:16
because it's so, so big, um,
19:19
and it's cold. It's not, um, heated by
19:22
nuclear fusion. Uh, uh, there's a comment
19:25
here from, uh, one of the researchers at
19:28
Penn State saying, uh.
19:31
Let me, let me read the quote. It's actually,
19:33
uh, quite nice. We looked at enough red dots
19:36
until we saw one that had so much atmosphere
19:39
that it couldn't be explained as typical
19:40
stars as we'd expect from a galaxy.
19:43
Um, uh, and so, uh, the
19:46
researchers believe that these objects are
19:49
driven, as I said, by supermassive black
19:51
holes in their centres. Um, and going on to
19:53
quote again, it's Joel, uh, Leha, I think is
19:56
the name of this person. It's an elegant
19:59
answer, really. Uh, we thought it was a
20:01
tiny galaxy full of many separate cold stars,
20:04
but it's actually effectively one gigantic,
20:06
very cold star. Um, and that is
20:10
so new, it's mind blowing.
20:13
Um, and of course what you need is many more
20:15
observations, lots more spectroscopy,
20:18
uh, and, um, basically, uh, uh,
20:22
a lot, a lot, you know, a lot of perhaps more
20:24
theoretical work. Another quote from that
20:27
same scientist. These black hole stars might
20:30
be the first phase of formation for the black
20:33
holes that we see in galaxies today.
20:35
Supermassive black holes in their little
20:37
infancy stage. So wow, that
20:40
one out. Yeah.
20:41
Andrew Dunkley: Because the biggest question, Fred Watson, is
20:43
what's this going to be next week?
20:48
Professor Fred Watson: What is a little red dot going to be next
20:50
week? I've got a little black dog here.
20:52
Andrew Dunkley: Could be a little black dog.
20:54
Professor Fred Watson: Yes.
20:56
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, it's a, It's a fascinating story and it
20:59
just sort of keeps evolving. Uh, I suppose
21:01
the more they look at it, the more we might
21:03
understand. I always use the word male might
21:06
or the words male might when it comes to this
21:08
kind of thing, because you can never be
21:11
absolutely in 100 certain in
21:14
many facets of astronomy and space science,
21:17
because sometimes we just aren't sure.
21:20
Uh, although they're starting to, starting to
21:22
really hone in on this one, by the sound of
21:23
it. So that's.
21:25
Professor Fred Watson: That's correct, yeah. Um, I, uh.
21:28
And you know, that's the thing about science.
21:29
So covering three different stories about
21:32
little red dots in the last two months or so.
21:35
Yeah. Uh, tells you how science works. And at
21:38
the moment, science is powering ahead. It's
21:40
going so quickly. The discoveries that are
21:42
being made. Part of that is the tools we've
21:44
got now. And the James Webb Telescope has
21:46
definitely been, uh, a game changer in that.
21:49
Andrew Dunkley: Absolutely.
21:49
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.
21:49
Andrew Dunkley: Ah, it just keeps, um, bringing up
21:52
all sorts of new things. It's fascinating.
21:56
Uh, and yeah, there seems to be a story every
21:58
other day from the James Webb Space
22:00
Telescope. Uh, just terrific. If you
22:03
would like to read up on these, um,
22:06
potential black hole stars, you can do
22:08
that@cosmos magazine.com or you can read the
22:11
paper at Astronomy and
22:13
Astrophysics.
22:20
Righto, Fred Watson.
22:21
Uh, let's, uh, nail down our last
22:24
story. And this is, uh, something that
22:26
seems to be happening semi regularly
22:29
now. Another quasi moon is attaching
22:32
itself to Earth. Um, in some
22:35
places we call these leeches. In other places
22:38
we call them black flies or house flies
22:40
because they just annoy the bajeebis out of
22:43
people. Um, but, uh, yes, another
22:46
one. I think this is about the third one
22:48
we've talked about since we started doing the
22:50
podcast that I'm aware of.
22:52
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's probably right. Um, so it's
22:55
a. Yes, a quasi moon. Um,
22:58
it's something like,
23:01
ah, 20 metres or so
23:04
across. So a tiny
23:07
object. Um, it's
23:10
comparable, actually, as one of the
23:11
commentators has said, comparable, uh, with
23:13
the object that exploded over
23:15
Chelyabinsk in 2013.
23:18
And that is small enough
23:21
that it kind of eludes the gaze of
23:24
telescopes. Unless you're fortunate. This one
23:27
didn't. It was found uh not very long
23:30
ago on 2 August 2025
23:33
uh by astronomers uh with the
23:36
Pan Starrs 1 telescope at Haleakala
23:38
Observatory which is on um, the island of
23:40
Maui in Hawaii. That telescope
23:43
is close to my heart because Marnie and I got
23:45
married in front of it. That's right on top
23:47
of the mountain, uh, just actually over the
23:49
top of the hill. Uh so of course Pan
23:52
Starrs is doing a fabulous job in detecting
23:55
these near earth objects, uh the small
23:58
objects which NASA was mandated by
24:01
Congress to find. Everything down to a
24:03
size of one ah, hundred forty metres I think
24:06
is the limit. This is much smaller than that.
24:09
Um, so it was thought to be um, sort
24:12
of bog standard near Earth asteroid. Uh it
24:15
was given such a designation
24:17
2025 PN7. That's typical of
24:20
the asteroidal um naming until
24:23
an asteroid is given a you know a more
24:25
elegant name. But what's now happened
24:28
is um, actually an astronomer who
24:31
is a French astronomer who, who looked at the
24:33
uh, uh the details uh,
24:36
and basically um,
24:39
came to the conclusion that this is actually
24:42
a quasi moon.
24:46
What does that mean? Uh, it means it's in an
24:48
orbit actually around the sun.
24:51
But uh, that orbit is very
24:54
much controlled by the Earth. So it's
24:57
almost like this thing's following the Earth
25:00
around in its orbit. There are a number of
25:01
objects that do this,
25:04
um, perhaps the
25:06
best known one and I'm struggling to remember
25:09
its name, uh
25:12
Krusna, named by a colleague of mine who
25:15
found it uh, uh when he worked
25:18
at the Ukeshmite Telescope. Dunkley Waldron,
25:20
still very active in the astronomy world up
25:23
there in Brisbane. Uh so Krishna uh
25:26
is in a sort of what you might
25:29
call a kidney shaped orbit if you look just
25:31
at the Earth. Uh so it sort of looks as
25:33
though it's in orbit around the Earth but
25:35
it's not, it's in orbit around the sun. And
25:37
2025 PN7 is, is
25:40
in a similar situation. However uh,
25:42
scientists at a number of uh, uh
25:45
institutions, um some of them I think are in
25:47
Spain actually have analysed its
25:50
orbit and reckon that
25:53
it's only been there for about 60 years
25:56
uh and that it will probably only be
25:59
there for about another 60 years because its
26:02
orbit is not stable. It's not stable over
26:05
long periods. So uh, they reckon for
26:08
about 128 years it will be a quasi
26:11
satellite of the Earth, uh but
26:14
uh, we will eventually lose it.
26:18
Uh, but it's uh, you know whilst it's here.
26:20
It's one that deserves further study and that
26:22
is exactly what's happening.
26:24
Andrew Dunkley: I think they're saying that at the moment
26:27
there are six other quasi moons. So
26:30
this makes seven, um, currently
26:33
doing, you know, their dance.
26:37
Um, these things must come and go fairly
26:39
regularly over time, I would imagine. And,
26:42
and the good news is they don't think this
26:44
one's going to pose any form of threat
26:46
to Earth, uh, at all. Unless you live in
26:49
Chelyabinsk, uh, or um, any
26:52
other similar sized city. But stay away
26:55
from the windows is basically the best
26:57
advice.
26:58
Professor Fred Watson: That's right, yes. Um, I think,
27:01
um, there's another one which
27:04
is of interest. Another of those seven that
27:06
you mentioned, Kamaoalewa, uh,
27:10
uh, discovered again I think by Pan Starrs,
27:12
hence the Hawaiian name that
27:15
lasts for 381 years.
27:18
Apparently, uh, it'll be a quasi moon. But
27:21
what's of interest is that if I remember,
27:24
it's called Tianwen 2A, ah, Chinese
27:27
spacecraft which is going to
27:29
rendezvous with it, uh, sometime within the
27:32
next year or so. I think I remember.
27:34
Andrew Dunkley: Interesting all. Uh-huh.
27:36
Professor Fred Watson: Right.
27:36
Andrew Dunkley: We might learn something from that. Yeah, if
27:38
they tell us. Yeah. Um, but uh, yes,
27:41
these quasi moons are interesting and it's
27:44
the instability of their um,
27:46
orbits that makes them sort of fly off
27:49
and disappear into the ether.
27:51
Professor Fred Watson: That's right, yeah.
27:53
Andrew Dunkley: So where do they go?
27:55
Professor Fred Watson: Somewhere else.
27:55
Andrew Dunkley: Somewhere else. It's a good answer.
28:00
Very good answer. All right. Uh, if
28:03
you'd like.
28:03
Professor Fred Watson: Well, they're in orbit around the sun, so
28:05
they basically just continue with that.
28:06
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, and until they get captured by something
28:09
else, I suppose. But, um, yes, all right, uh,
28:11
you can read up on that story on this rather
28:13
interesting website called the Brighter side.
28:16
Um, Brighter side News, in fact.
28:20
Uh, and that brings us to the, uh, end of
28:23
this particular episode. Fred Watson, thank
28:25
you very much.
28:25
Professor Fred Watson: Oh, you're welcome, Andrew. It's uh, great to
28:28
catch up again.
28:29
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, it is. It was nice to see you and
28:32
Marnie and uh, Huw in the studio the other
28:34
day who wasn't in the studio strangely, and
28:36
he's not in the studio today. I don't know
28:38
what he's doing. He's probably, um, playing
28:40
with Jordy or something, you know,
28:43
kidnapping feral cats.
28:46
Professor Fred Watson: That'S.
28:47
Andrew Dunkley: One of his hobbies. Yeah. Uh, thanks
28:49
Fred Watson. We'll catch you real soon.
28:51
Professor Fred Watson: Sounds good. See you later.
28:53
Andrew Dunkley: And thanks, uh, for uh, watching and, or
28:55
listening to Space Nuts. Don't forget to
28:57
check out our Show Nuts, uh, Show Notes.
29:00
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29:02
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but that's it. We'll catch you on the next
29:29
episode, a Q and A episode coming up next
29:31
week. Uh, we'll see you then from me, Andrew
29:34
Dunkley. Bye.
29:35
Professor Fred Watson: Bye.
29:36
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