Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / Lessons from a disabled bride to be. With Charlotte Rowe

Transcript

Lessons from a disabled bride to be. With Charlotte Rowe · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

• 0:00
  But when I'm talking about accessibility, it's not just about a person in a wheelchair.
• 0:06
  It could be somebody who's deaf, partially sighted, blind.
• 0:10
  It might be that they're autistic or have sensory needs or neurodivergent.
• 0:15
  There's such a whole host of disabilities that aren't catered for.
• 0:18
  I'm Becca Poutney, wedding business marketing expert, strategist, speaker and author.
• 0:24
  Over the last decade, I've combined my love of marketing with my knowledge of the wedding industry to help thousands of wedding pros and venues just like you learn new skills, strategize, get re energized and grow their businesses.
• 0:36
  Because after all, that's how you stay top of your game.
• 0:39
  Whether you're brand new into this industry or been here forever, I want to help.
• 0:43
  So grab a cup of tea or a cocktail, sit back and enjoy a brand new episode of my award winning podcast, Wedding Pros who Are Ready to Grow.
• 0:51
  Let's get going with today's episode.
• 0:57
  Today I'm chatting with Charlotte Rowe, founder of the Unseen Weddings.
• 1:01
  Today's episode is going to be a little different as we're going to explore some of the ways our industry is failing couples, including Charlotte.
• 1:08
  At the start of September, I was tagged in a social media post by my cousin and having read it, I immediately invited Charlotte onto the show.
• 1:16
  I'm going to start today's episode by reading that post for you so that you get some context.
• 1:21
  So this is what it said.
• 1:23
  I never expected planning my wedding to make me ask such a big question.
• 1:27
  Where are the disabled brides?
• 1:29
  I'm a disabled bride to be planning my own wedding for 2028, and as I started looking at dresses, venues, photographers, and all the exciting parts of getting married, I started noticing something I rarely saw.
• 1:41
  People like me.
• 1:42
  I couldn't help but wonder how many other disabled people were planning their wedding and feeling the same way.
• 1:48
  Because being disabled can make wedding planning feel very different.
• 1:52
  Alongside choosing the dress and picking the flowers, there can be questions about whether a venue is actually accessible, whether there's somewhere suitable to get ready, accessible, accommod, accommodation, transport, extra costs, whether suppliers understand your needs and whether you'll
• 2:06
  have to constantly explain yourself.
• 2:08
  Sometimes it feels like accessibility is something we have to fight for rather than something that should simply be there.
• 2:14
  And honestly, I want that to change.
• 2:17
  I want disabled brides to be able to scroll through wedding inspiration and see themselves.
• 2:21
  I want us to see disabled brides being celebrated as beautiful, glamorous, stylish, loved and completely ourselves and that's why I started the Unseen Brides project.
• 2:31
  I don't have everything figured out.
• 2:33
  I'm just one disabled bride with an idea that I really care about and I want to build something bigger with the people who understand why this matters.
• 2:40
  So if you're a disabled bride or couple, I'd love to hear from you.
• 2:43
  If you're a wedding supplier or creative who wants to make the industry more accessible and inclusive, I'd love you to be part of it.
• 2:49
  And if you simply believe disabled people deserve to be seen and represented, please share this post.
• 2:55
  You never know who might see it and realize they're not alone.
• 2:58
  This is only the beginning, but I really hope that one day a disabled bride planning her wedding won't have to ask where are the disabled brides?
• 3:07
  Because she'll be able to see us everywhere.
• 3:11
  Such a powerful post.
• 3:14
  It's a much needed conversation.
• 3:16
  Charlotte, it's such a pleasure.
• 3:18
  Thank you for being here.
• 3:19
  Welcome to the podcast.
• 3:21
  Thank you for having me.
• 3:23
  Now that post is so powerful, which is why I wanted to read it out to everyone.
• 3:28
  Because I wanted everyone to know the context how we ended up having this discussion so quickly.
• 3:33
  After you put that out there, thanks to my cousin putting me in the right frame and the right place to see what you'd written.
• 3:42
  And yeah, it's an absolute pleasure to chat to you today.
• 3:44
  And I know, having read the post and just in general, that our industry does need to do better and actually we've all got to start somewhere.
• 3:52
  But before we get into that, I would just love to find out a bit more about you.
• 3:56
  Who you are, where you live, what you do.
• 3:59
  Tell us more about yourself.
• 4:02
  So my story is so I haven't been disabled my whole life.
• 4:08
  I used to work in a sweet shop and manage the shop and loved it.
• 4:14
  It was my dream job and overnight I suddenly had started symptoms of I was making weird noises and I wasn't really sure what was going on.
• 4:28
  So I went to my GP and they diagnosed me with tics and it's just uncontrollable sounds or movements and from that became functional neurological disorder and that turned into my mobility going downhill.
• 4:47
  A whole host of other symptoms which I won't go into but that.
• 4:52
  That meant that I had to leave my job.
• 4:56
  It couldn't be made accessible for me so I left my job and yeah, whole whole new world to navigate.
• 5:08
  I worked from home for a little bit with the Oliver McGowan Trust, teaching people about autism and then I've now gone back into work as an Administrator in a hospice and just started this whole project from then becoming
• 5:28
  engaged myself and noticing exactly how inaccessible and unrepresented the whole industry is.
• 5:38
  Okay, so you've had a difficult situation that's happened.
• 5:43
  It hasn't been something that's been going on a long time.
• 5:46
  It sounds like it happened fairly quickly.
• 5:48
  And so do you use a wheelchair now all of the time.
• 5:51
  Some of the time.
• 5:52
  How does that work in terms of accessibility?
• 5:55
  So me personally, at the moment, it's quite a very, very variable condition.
• 6:02
  So at the moment I'm able to walk around the house with a stick and then outside of the house I use a wheelchair all the time.
• 6:11
  But there are times like if I'm really unwell, my mobility might get worse.
• 6:16
  So I have to use a wheelchair all the time.
• 6:19
  It just depends on how I am at the time.
• 6:22
  So it's different day to day and it's been a lot to navigate.
• 6:27
  And now you've entered our world, which is the world of weddings.
• 6:31
  And I saw some pictures online.
• 6:33
  You had a lovely engagement.
• 6:34
  So just give us a bit more information.
• 6:35
  Tell us, tell us the story.
• 6:36
  Because us wedding people love to hear about wedding things.
• 6:39
  So how did the proposal happen?
• 6:41
  Tell us all about it.
• 6:42
  It was actually a complete surprise to me because we'd had the discussion around whether we want to get married and it was coming up to our two year anniversary.
• 6:53
  So we were thinking, do we want to get married?
• 6:56
  When do we want to get married?
• 6:57
  What's the plan?
• 6:57
  We also need to move house.
• 6:59
  So he kept saying, once we've moved house, then I'll plan something.
• 7:05
  We still haven't moved house.
• 7:08
  And on our second year anniversary he said, I've done a surprise, like we're going to go somewhere, we're not going to tell you where we're going.
• 7:16
  So I showed.
• 7:17
  Well, we showed up and we was at the Sea Life center, one of my favorite places.
• 7:21
  Love the aquarium.
• 7:23
  He that was the first time he told me he loved me in an aquarium.
• 7:26
  So it's quite a lovely theme for us.
• 7:29
  And he like planned.
• 7:30
  He'd hired out the entire place and we had like an after dark tour of the place.
• 7:37
  I was still none the wiser.
• 7:39
  You would think that I would have caught on, but I was so like, I love the aquarium sauce.
• 7:45
  Not even focused on him.
• 7:47
  I was just looking at the sharks and stuff.
• 7:51
  But then it was, it was absolutely beautiful.
• 7:53
  All of it was accessible for me.
• 7:55
  The team had worked with him previously on email to check if there was any requirements that we needed and they were brilliant.
• 8:03
  They took us around the whole place.
• 8:05
  And then once we got to the end, there's like a big tunnel, like, like 360 tunnel all around you.
• 8:14
  All the fish are.
• 8:15
  And then he got one knee in post.
• 8:17
  How romantic.
• 8:19
  Yeah, I was in shock.
• 8:21
  I was like, oh, I didn't expect this to happen, even though I should have seen this coming.
• 8:25
  But it was.
• 8:26
  It was really special.
• 8:28
  Really, really special.
• 8:29
  And we need to shout out, oh, sorry, what was that?
• 8:32
  The only person.
• 8:32
  Person who knew was my mom, and she kept it a secret somehow.
• 8:37
  Oh, I love that.
• 8:38
  Well, we need to shout out to the Sea Life center because I've seen on your inst.
• 8:41
  Instagram post that you.
• 8:42
  You wrote that you had a great experience there.
• 8:45
  So just give us some reasons, I suppose.
• 8:48
  So when we're looking at this as a great example of a place that has done a really good job, what was it about what the Sea Life center did that made it a success for you?
• 8:58
  Personally, I think that the main thing that people underestimate is you don't have to be perfect.
• 9:04
  It's just more of a ask what the person needs, rather than assume.
• 9:12
  You might think that one person in a wheelchair needs one thing, but then another might need a slightly different adjustment.
• 9:19
  So just asking and then actually putting those things in place and making sure the whole venue is accessible anyway.
• 9:29
  But even behind the scenes, like, they take you behind the scenes to look at all the other things, that was all still accessible.
• 9:36
  Just.
• 9:36
  It was just amazing.
• 9:37
  And I didn't have to think, is this, am I gonna have to do this, or am I not going to be able to get into this section?
• 9:44
  Or.
• 9:45
  Every part of it was accessible and nothing was too big of a chore for them to.
• 9:50
  To help us with.
• 9:52
  They were brilliant.
• 9:53
  And I think that's a really important place to start, actually, with what you said about not making assumptions and asking the questions.
• 10:00
  Because I think sometimes people are either afraid to ask or like you said, just think, oh, someone owned a wheelchair.
• 10:06
  They're all the.
• 10:07
  The same.
• 10:07
  But actually, that's.
• 10:08
  That's not true.
• 10:09
  I mean, we see that even when I go on holiday to Disney and people turn up to the rise and there's all sorts of varieties of, can you transfer?
• 10:16
  Can you not transfer?
• 10:16
  You know, there's.
• 10:17
  There's so many questions, but how should people be asking those questions?
• 10:21
  Because people probably think, oh, I don't want to ask the wrong thing.
• 10:24
  I just.
• 10:24
  I don't think there's a wrong way to ask.
• 10:27
  There might be, but you know, just being what is it that you need from us?
• 10:33
  What can we do to make this experience how you need it to be?
• 10:38
  We can tell you all of our accessibility information.
• 10:41
  So it's not something you have to search for because that's a big theme at the moment of like, if I'm looking at venues, still haven't booked a venue.
• 10:49
  But when I'm looking for venues, it seems to be it's a search to try and find the accessibility information.
• 10:55
  And it might say, oh, we're completely wheelchair accessible, but different wheelchairs need different things.
• 11:01
  Or some are slightly wider or you might not be able to open a door.
• 11:06
  I know in a lot of hotels that like, it says it's an accessible room, but the doors are really heavy and I can't always open them.
• 11:13
  Things like the small things or having an open discussion of maybe a meeting beforehand of saying you can ask me any questions that you need and what.
• 11:24
  You tell me what you need.
• 11:26
  Okay, so there's two things there again, because it's asking the questions but also presenting the information.
• 11:31
  And I want to come back to that.
• 11:32
  But before we do, we talked about engagement and now you're into wedding planning, which is incredibly exciting.
• 11:38
  And you're quite at the early stages, as you said, you haven't even booked the venue yet.
• 11:42
  So I know that moment you get engaged, you're all excited.
• 11:46
  And I talk about it sometimes from stage that a couple of days later you think, right, I'm going to start wedding planning.
• 11:50
  Or maybe that night, where did you start?
• 11:52
  What did you do?
• 11:54
  Like, what was your process?
• 11:56
  I was very much like that.
• 11:58
  I think as soon as we got engaged, I was like, I'm downloading Hitched.
• 12:01
  I'm gonna find out all this suppliers, I'm gonna find a venue or.
• 12:06
  But then it kind of got like, it's finding a venue in your price range and that's fully accessible seems to be a big thing because it.
• 12:15
  A lot of accessible venues I've found so far are just completely out of the price range and it's very inaccessible to me in that.
• 12:25
  In that regard.
• 12:27
  But I have had a meeting with a venue yesterday who are willing to work with me on a lot of projects coming up and potentially will be a wedding venue for me, but we'll see how it goes.
• 12:39
  Well, that's very exciting.
• 12:41
  Okay, so first thing you did, then you went to Hitch.
• 12:44
  What about social media?
• 12:45
  Did you look at social media?
• 12:46
  Did you look at websites?
• 12:47
  Where were you looking for your inspiration?
• 12:50
  Pinterest, mostly Hitched.
• 12:52
  I Think because it's all in the one app.
• 12:55
  I was just like, sending.
• 12:56
  You know, you can just send multiple requests to all the different venues and getting all the quotes back and then going, I can't believe how much this costs.
• 13:05
  And don't we know it?
• 13:06
  Because from the wedding industry side, I talk about this a lot, actually, is that Hitch makes it so easy for couples, but what ends up happening is you inquire with so many different places and then they all start
• 13:16
  coming back to you and then you have to ignore them all.
• 13:18
  And.
• 13:19
  And wedding vendors are like, why do people ghost all of the time?
• 13:22
  I'm like, because they're so overwhelmed by the information that they've been sent from all these directories.
• 13:27
  So you went on here.
• 13:28
  You went out to all of these spaces to get information.
• 13:31
  Now, I'd love to know from a directory perspective, because this would be interesting for us to think about.
• 13:36
  Is there anything on directories?
• 13:38
  So we're talking about Hitch.
• 13:39
  I don't know if you've used any of the other big ones, Bride book guides for brides, but is there anything on those directories which allows you to filter by accessibility that you found?
• 13:47
  As far as I could see, there was.
• 13:50
  But when I did click that, I think there was only about 5 in the West Midlands, Something very, very short.
• 13:59
  And it wasn't some of the better ones, if I can say that.
• 14:03
  Like, it wasn't like, I think people might mark them down as accessible, but is it really accessible?
• 14:13
  Or is.
• 14:14
  Does that mean that they're fully accessible?
• 14:16
  What does it really mean?
• 14:17
  Because they could say, oh, we've put a ramp, that means we're accessible.
• 14:21
  But where.
• 14:22
  Where does that distinction lie?
• 14:24
  Okay.
• 14:25
  And so.
• 14:25
  All right, So I just think this is a fascinating thing to think through, because if you're filtering by West Midlands wedding venues and only there's only five left, does that mean you only contacted those five, or did you
• 14:35
  think, I'll just try some other ones and hope for the best?
• 14:37
  I just, at the start contacted as many as I could to find out how much it might cost.
• 14:44
  Like an idea, because I haven't got.
• 14:47
  I didn't have a clue at the start.
• 14:49
  I helped my sister plan her wedding and she just got married in July and had an idea, but she's in London, so everything's sort of another level higher.
• 15:00
  But here I had no idea how much it costs or what's included.
• 15:04
  So it was just a bit of research, really.
• 15:06
  And then we only really started looking maybe the last couple of months.
• 15:12
  We've viewed a couple of venues.
• 15:14
  I've got another two to view in the next couple of weeks.
• 15:18
  It's just when you go, it's always a different kind of vibe.
• 15:23
  Yeah.
• 15:23
  And the accessibility wise, actually wheeling around a venue rather than looking at pictures, you get to know whether it is actually accessible for you.
• 15:32
  So I'm interested in that.
• 15:34
  In between time, then.
• 15:35
  So you've, you've done your research, they've sent you their prices back.
• 15:39
  How have you then narrowed it down to which ones to visit?
• 15:41
  Have you just narrowed it down by price?
• 15:43
  Which is obviously one way to do it.
• 15:45
  But have you also then done your own research on their website or by looking at their information to try and work out their accessibility policy?
• 15:52
  Or have you asked them, like, what have you had to do that maybe a bride without or a groom without those accessibility considerations maybe wouldn't have to do?
• 16:01
  Price was definitely a factor for me.
• 16:04
  To be completely honest with you don't have a very big budget, obviously being disabled and on low income and that was a main thing.
• 16:15
  And then from there trying to figure out the accessibility of venues by just going to see them.
• 16:21
  Some just happened to be accessible but didn't actually promote their venue as accessible, which surprised me.
• 16:34
  But yeah, it's, it's just a bit of trial and error seeing if it works for us.
• 16:39
  It's also, we're having quite a small wedding, so I don't want a venue that's too big that will make us feel really small.
• 16:49
  I don't know.
• 16:51
  No, it makes perfect sense.
• 16:52
  You've got to do all the things that every bride and groom or, you know, every couple does for their wedding day.
• 16:57
  But obviously you've got these additional considerations to be thinking through.
• 17:01
  So you've been to see a few venues.
• 17:03
  We won't, we won't shout out any names, especially if they were bad experiences.
• 17:06
  But have you had, have you hit any hurdles?
• 17:09
  Have you got any stories from your own experience?
• 17:11
  Have you been somewhere that said it's accessible and then found out it's not?
• 17:15
  You know, tell me what's been going on out there.
• 17:17
  What's your experience been?
• 17:18
  A couple of places have been.
• 17:21
  My best experiences have been as like a hotel guest.
• 17:26
  In the past, I've stayed at quite a few different hotels and they'll have an accessible room which doesn't get used so.
• 17:35
  And isn't maintained.
• 17:38
  And then I don't, I don't really understand having an inaccessible room, but you can't use pretty much any of the facilities.
• 17:49
  So it was on the ground floor, but the entire grounds was like rocky gravel, so I could not go around that at all.
• 17:59
  The spa itself was over that.
• 18:02
  Somebody pushed me over it eventually, and I went to use their spa facilities.
• 18:08
  Their accessible changing room was used as a store cupboard and they had to empty it all out for me to use.
• 18:16
  Didn't want me to go in the spa in my wheelchair because they said my wheels might be dirty.
• 18:22
  Loads of things.
• 18:25
  And the excuses that I used is, oh, it's a listed building, so we can't make things accessible.
• 18:30
  But that part wasn't a part of the listed building.
• 18:34
  And they've got the facilities there, so keep them maintained and usable.
• 18:40
  Yeah, well, using the accessible changing as a store cupboard for a start, that's nothing to do with being a listed building.
• 18:46
  That's just exactly believable.
• 18:48
  Like, why are we doing that?
• 18:49
  And again, I think you make an interesting point, and I think this is something you're gonna find more and more as you go into this world.
• 18:55
  Is that, like you said, the hotels as a guest may be accessible, but it's actually a very different experience being the person getting married.
• 19:05
  I'm sure I read a story ages ago about a registry office wedding that said it or something like that, and it said it was accessible for guests, but actually where the.
• 19:13
  The bride needed to come out was steps.
• 19:16
  And so it was like.
• 19:17
  So all the guests could come down the proper route and she had to go, like, round the back.
• 19:21
  And it was just like, well, yeah, I understand it's accessible, but actually, as a bride or as a groom or as a, you know, a main member of that wedding party, that's a very different experience.
• 19:31
  And I read something on your Instagram.
• 19:33
  I think it was one of the other people that shared a story about this to do with the wedding, the first night in the room where they could say, do you want to share a bit more about that?
• 19:40
  The.
• 19:40
  I've had quite a lot of people reach out with their own experiences.
• 19:44
  I've.
• 19:45
  I've tried to get quite a lot of lived experience to share, like, stagger throughout.
• 19:51
  And a lot of stories are the same.
• 19:54
  So for wedding guests, it seems to be accessible.
• 20:01
  But like the.
• 20:02
  The getting ready room, the bridal getting ready area, or all of that, that's stairs.
• 20:08
  That's at the top of the building.
• 20:09
  You can't use that because it's not accessible.
• 20:12
  And the honeymoon suite is the same.
• 20:14
  It's completely at the top.
• 20:15
  It's never an accessible room.
• 20:18
  So you don't get that special experience on your wedding night, like, and you're paying all this money to not feel like a special.
• 20:27
  It's your special day.
• 20:28
  And it's.
• 20:29
  It's frustrating because there's small things they could do to make that still special, but it's just not happening.
• 20:36
  And what I want to happen is for venues to either reach out to me or I reach out to venues and say, these are the things that you should consider.
• 20:48
  I want to come round and assess your accessibility.
• 20:51
  And from.
• 20:53
  From a person getting married's perspective as a disabled person, these are things you could change and see if they're open to making those changes.
• 21:01
  Because even as, even every wedding party that I've heard about at the moment, there's either a disabled person, an elderly relative with mobility issues, the bride or groom, or the person getting married is disabled.
• 21:16
  It's not just one person who might need accessibility.
• 21:19
  It's so many people, I think they're really missing out on that.
• 21:23
  And I think what's interesting as well is I guarantee there's lots of venues that actually are accessible but aren't telling you about it, aren't shouting about it.
• 21:31
  Maybe there are venues even listening where they think, well, our bridal suite is, you know, a beautiful room on the ground floor and it's all pavements everywhere.
• 21:39
  But if they're not, if there's no mechanic or no way of them marketing that or talking about that or putting that clearly somewhere on their website or on a directory or whatever it is, how are you supposed to
• 21:49
  find that information?
• 21:50
  Because it would take you hours to go through every venue in the UK to try and find the hidden gems.
• 21:56
  Right.
• 21:56
  And they should.
• 21:57
  Yeah, they should definitely be posting about it.
• 22:00
  And, and this is the same as the representation that I've been talking about.
• 22:04
  Like, you don't really see photographers posting disabled couples, or you don't really see venues showing off a wedding that they've done with a disabled person and how they've made adjustments for them, it's just not represented.
• 22:19
  So you don't know about it.
• 22:20
  But I wish they would shout about it because people want to know.
• 22:24
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:25
  So that brings me beautifully onto my next thought.
• 22:28
  Because you started your wedding planning, you've gone to see some venues, you're on hits, you're fully immersed.
• 22:34
  At what point did you start thinking, wait a minute, I'm not really seeing myself anywhere?
• 22:40
  This actually happened.
• 22:42
  I went to the National Wedding show in March, I believe it was with my friend.
• 22:50
  And I just was going around, I was just thinking, there is no one here like me in any way, shape or form.
• 22:58
  It just felt very cut and paste of the same type of person.
• 23:02
  And none of the venues had any accessibility information.
• 23:07
  None of the suppliers were showcasing disabled couples.
• 23:11
  The catwalk was all able bodied people.
• 23:15
  It just felt very like, well, where am I represented in this show?
• 23:20
  And it's the biggest show in the uk so where else am I going to feel represented?
• 23:26
  There was one supplier who was a bridal wear company shop.
• 23:33
  Sorry.
• 23:34
  And they did have a mannequin that was in a wheelchair and that was amazing.
• 23:39
  Like that was the highlight of my day and it's so easy to do and it's just like if more suppliers in there just did something to represent different kinds of people, it would really help with that representation.
• 23:56
  I am going again in a couple of weeks and I'm hoping to see a bit more.
• 24:00
  But, but I'm also trying to, I'm gonna try and approach quite a few of the suppliers go into that to see if they want to work with me too.
• 24:08
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:09
  Use it as an opportunity to network and national wedding show.
• 24:13
  They've been on this podcast.
• 24:14
  If they're listening, let's, let's get them to reach out to you.
• 24:16
  Let's.
• 24:16
  Let's chat because I know that they'd be interested in the conversation.
• 24:19
  I think as a wider industry we should all be interested in this conversation because like you think said, I said out of that huge show and it's probably the same at every other show.
• 24:28
  We're not just calling out one.
• 24:29
  But yeah.
• 24:30
  Actually to only see yourself in one.
• 24:33
  One stand in that huge thing.
• 24:35
  Yeah.
• 24:36
  Is difficult And I hope you stopped at the stand with that mannequin and spoke to them and told them how much you appreciated it.
• 24:42
  I did and they were really lovely.
• 24:44
  Really lovely.
• 24:45
  And they have done some really good campaigns.
• 24:48
  I'll actually, I will shout them out.
• 24:50
  It was tdr the dress for.
• 24:52
  I think it's the dress room in Birmingham and they do a lot of work with disabled representation, which is brilliant.
• 25:02
  What I was going to say as well is the only real places I felt represented in wedding shows that I've noticed so far is like alternative wedding shows and it's all very.
• 25:19
  It's not your standard wedding.
• 25:20
  People are wearing really cool different color dresses and it's all alternative but they do a really good job of representation of disabled couples and inclusivity of all different couples.
• 25:33
  But that's the only place I've found.
• 25:35
  But if you are not an alternative person, you're not going to go to that show and see yourself represented.
• 25:42
  So there is things, really positive things happening, but there is such a long way to go with it.
• 25:48
  Yeah, that absolutely, absolutely is.
• 25:50
  So you obviously felt all these things and a lot of people would have just been frustrated or maybe gone to Reddit or TikTok and just shouted about how awful the wedding industry is.
• 26:00
  And maybe you felt like doing that at times, but actually somewhere in your mind you thought, I'm gonna turn this into something.
• 26:08
  So just again, walk me through that.
• 26:10
  At what point did you think, I'm actually gonna do some kind of project here?
• 26:14
  I'm not just, I'm not just gonna go, oh, this is annoying, I'm gonna do something about it.
• 26:18
  I don't actually know where the initial thought came from, to be honest with you.
• 26:23
  I just, I think I was sat awake at night just thinking about it, it and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna post a Reddit.
• 26:29
  I think it all started with Reddit and I'm gonna post and just see what other people's experiences are and has other people found the same thing.
• 26:41
  So I kind of put out like my, my name initially was the Unseen Brides, which I've changed now to the Unseen Weddings to be more inclusive of everyone.
• 26:51
  But I put out a post saying like a similar thing to the Facebook post saying, I have noticed the lack of representation.
• 26:59
  Have you found the same thing?
• 27:00
  I'm reaching out to other disabled couples.
• 27:04
  Let me know below.
• 27:05
  And that went crazy.
• 27:07
  That's where it all kind of started.
• 27:09
  Of that got about 40,000 views and I was like.
• 27:12
  And about 300 people commented saying, we've had this experience, we want to share our experience.
• 27:20
  It went mad.
• 27:21
  And from there I thought, there's definitely a need for this and I need to try and put this out there everywhere and try and make a difference.
• 27:32
  And then it's kind of spiraled from there and gone crazy, which is amazing.
• 27:36
  Which obviously there's a need for it.
• 27:42
  Often what that need is because I think in our industry we are getting, getting better at diversity and inclusion.
• 27:48
  And you talked about some of the positive examples.
• 27:50
  But it does take someone with that lived experience to be the advocate, to be the change maker, to be the person saying it.
• 27:59
  Because if I as an able bodied person go on a stage and say, you all should be using, making styled shoots with disabled models, it doesn't work the same.
• 28:08
  Right.
• 28:09
  It feels tokenistic, it feels like a PR stunt, but actually it feels a.
• 28:13
  Bit like a tick box kind of exercise.
• 28:15
  Correct.
• 28:16
  Whereas actually sometimes it needs Someone to stand up and go, this is my experience and this is why I want to change it.
• 28:21
  And that's why I think what you're doing is so powerful.
• 28:24
  And I, I do believe that it's going to have a ripple effect through the industry.
• 28:27
  And this is, this is just the start, because having the conversation and making people think, and I know people will be listening to this and thinking, and some people will be thinking, oh, I don't actually know what to
• 28:36
  do about this next, that feels too big.
• 28:38
  And other people will be thinking, why have I not done more about this sooner?
• 28:41
  And other people are going to have questions.
• 28:43
  So, you know, we're at an early stage, but actually having this conversation, finding out what the struggles have been for you personally and how you have felt is the first step in that.
• 28:53
  Now, we said that when you were out there at the shows and online, you didn't feel represented.
• 28:58
  What did you expect to see?
• 29:00
  Did you expect to see representation or is there other areas that aren't the wedding industry where you think they are doing it?
• 29:06
  Well, for you?
• 29:07
  That's a great question.
• 29:10
  I don't know what I was expecting.
• 29:12
  I think, I thought it come a bit further, I think, because last year or around the same time I attended nadex, which is a disability convention, and it just has gone leaps and bounds of education and showing you
• 29:30
  the latest wheelchairs and it's a great show, absolutely love it.
• 29:35
  They do such a good job supporting disabled people.
• 29:40
  But then when you go to another convention in the exact same venue and there's nothing, it felt a bit like, oh, maybe we haven't come as far as we thought or maybe it's just this industry.
• 29:53
  But I mean, it's the same in like the job industry, like getting a job as a disabled person and things like that is.
• 30:01
  Is such a struggle still.
• 30:03
  And there's the disability confident employers now, but it's such a small group of people and even then when you get a job, you've got to go through access to work and try and get the reasonable adjustments put in
• 30:20
  place and then sometimes they're still declined, which is a similar thing that's happening to me at the moment.
• 30:27
  It just makes it really hard and it's in so many different industries.
• 30:30
  Every time I leave the house and go out on a day out or go for a meal somewhere, there's always seems to be an accessibility issue.
• 30:40
  And it is so frustrating because you don't want to be that person who complains all the time because you can't access something or they say it's going to be accessible, then it isn't.
• 30:52
  But then you want to be that person who tries to make the change.
• 30:55
  It's really difficult to enjoy going out.
• 31:00
  It's frustrating.
• 31:00
  It's frustrating.
• 31:02
  And I think what's particularly difficult is that, you know, we're in an industry, the wedding industry, where we're trying to give people the happiest day of their life, like we should.
• 31:11
  Wedding planning and having a wedding should be an enjoyable experience.
• 31:15
  And so I think the frustration probably feels even more pronounced when you're coming up against things on what should be the happiest day of your life.
• 31:23
  And like you said, you don't want to make compromises.
• 31:24
  You don't, you know, if every other bride is having this beautiful getting ready suite and a big four poster bed and you've got to get ready in the basement, like, why should you have to do that?
• 31:34
  Like, do you know what I mean?
• 31:36
  So I think that's the thing.
• 31:37
  So we've got the project.
• 31:39
  The project has started just from these posts.
• 31:41
  You've got the Instagram page.
• 31:43
  I know it's evolving very fast for you because there's lots of interest, but actually, fundamentally, what do you want to see from it?
• 31:52
  Is it a greater awareness?
• 31:54
  Is there practical things you want to see, like right here, right now?
• 31:57
  What, like, if you look to the future, if we, if we would have this same conversation in two, three years time, what would you want this industry to look like?
• 32:06
  That's also a really good question.
• 32:10
  Well, my plan for what I want to happen at the moment is I want to create like a directory of, kind of similar to what I was saying, like a disability confident directory of inclusive suppliers who are like
• 32:28
  committed to doing better.
• 32:30
  It's not to say that, that you're completely accessible and you know everything that you need to know, but you are committed to learning and listening to the people that you're working with and supporting them.
• 32:42
  So I want to create that.
• 32:43
  And I had a lot of interest.
• 32:44
  I only posted about that last night and that also went kind of crazy.
• 32:50
  I think over 50 different suppliers have contacted me.
• 32:53
  They want to be part of that.
• 32:56
  I would also love maybe one day to do my own wedding fair.
• 33:02
  So.
• 33:02
  That people can come and see I am represented.
• 33:05
  These.
• 33:06
  All the people here will do their best to support me.
• 33:10
  They're completely inclusive.
• 33:12
  That's my kind of vibe.
• 33:14
  I also would love one day to kind of become more of like an accessibility consultant where I can either go to venues or people come to me and Ask for support on like what they need to do better
• 33:28
  or, you know, what are they doing.
• 33:31
  Well, celebrating that.
• 33:34
  I just, I think the world's kind of my oyster with it at the moment and I'm open to people's ideas on if they have an idea of what I could be doing or how they want to work with
• 33:46
  me on something.
• 33:47
  I also am planning a styled shoot, like a photo shoot with me in it, which is terrible.
• 33:56
  It's great.
• 33:57
  Just make sure you pick the right people to do it with.
• 33:59
  Definitely.
• 34:01
  I've had a lot of interest in doing that and I think it'd be good to show the accessibility done right, all the inclusion.
• 34:09
  Having the representation of a disabled model won't come without the model, but a representation of a disabled person in the shoot and then having that go out to places and people can see themselves within that and imagine their
• 34:24
  wedding like that.
• 34:27
  But I'm open, I'm open to where it could take.
• 34:30
  Yeah, and there is, there is so much opportunity and space and I'm sure people will have ideas for you as well.
• 34:36
  The other thing I'm interested in is, is whether you found anywhere online or whether that's something else you need to do yourself, where you can meet with other disabled brides, disabled grooms, like other people.
• 34:46
  Is there like a community of people that talk to each other, advise each other?
• 34:50
  Is.
• 34:51
  Is there any kind of communities that you found?
• 34:53
  Reddit was a big one that I found.
• 34:55
  There was a lot of disabled couples on there.
• 35:02
  I think it was just like r UK Weddings and they're not from there.
• 35:07
  That was the most popular subreddit and Facebook specific groups like UK Weddings or there's an FND page that I posted on because I was already in that and I was asking for their lived experiences.
• 35:26
  I'm just trying to find it myself, trying to find where to find the people.
• 35:29
  But I'm planning to go to Nadex again next year, the disability convention, and try and either I might do a talk there if they'd have me and speak to more disabled people, get them on board and, and from
• 35:45
  there.
• 35:46
  But it's all new to me.
• 35:47
  It's all very new.
• 35:48
  But there is so much opportunity and I think, you know, we need to be thinking about it.
• 35:53
  What you've done is you've, you've opened up the conversation, you've opened up the can of worms, which I think is, is a great thing and now it's making everyone ask questions about themselves and their own businesses.
• 36:04
  Now I, I think there'll be people Listening who think, well, that's great, I'm a venue.
• 36:08
  Obviously it's very clear how a venue needs to be accessible.
• 36:10
  But maybe they're from a different part of the industry.
• 36:13
  Maybe they're a, a florist, a videographer, a photographer, you know, any of those kind of things, hair and makeup.
• 36:20
  They might be thinking, well, this doesn't really apply to me, I don't have a physical premises, I don't need a ramp.
• 36:25
  But are there things that they should be considering?
• 36:27
  Are there ways that would make them more accessible to you or to other people?
• 36:31
  Oh, I actually had another meeting with a DJ the other day and we were discussing the same thing of how can specific suppliers that aren't venues be more accessible.
• 36:47
  And something that she does is she will have like a zoom call with the couple beforehand and ask them, you know, is there anything I can do to be more accessible to you?
• 36:59
  But when I'm talking about accessibility, it's not just about a person in a wheelchair.
• 37:04
  It could be somebody who's deaf, partially sighted, blind.
• 37:11
  It might be that they're autistic or have sensory needs and neurodivergent.
• 37:16
  There's such a whole host of disabilities that aren't catered for that it could just be, you know, oh, sorry, I just thought of something.
• 37:24
  I also had a florist reach out to me, say that they had a couple who suffered with really bad migraines and they needed a scent free bokeh or low centred bokeh.
• 37:39
  And that's something that they manage to do.
• 37:41
  And it's not something that you might think about, but it might be something that they can ask the question of is there things that we can do that makes this accessible to you as a person?
• 37:55
  It's just asking the question, listening to what they say and actually acting on that and trying to do your best to make that happen.
• 38:03
  But that might look different for every different supplier.
• 38:07
  For photographers, I was thinking there's a lot of issues around whether photographers are, I can't think of the word, whether it's trained or have experience in photographing people at different heights.
• 38:24
  So like someone sat down, whether you know how to pose them or make it look nice or some heard some horror stories about, you know, people's mobility aids being edited out of photos or they've been like photographed from
• 38:40
  the waist up so you can't tell they're in a chair.
• 38:42
  And it might just be that might be what the person wanted or that someone's just assumed that they wouldn't want their Mobility aid in the picture, whereas I don't think that is the case a lot of the time.
• 38:55
  So just to ask the person what can we do?
• 38:58
  Or do your research if they tell you they've got a specific disability and suggestions of would this be helpful to you or not?
• 39:06
  Not to make an assumption.
• 39:07
  Yeah.
• 39:08
  And I think that's.
• 39:08
  It's really nuanced.
• 39:09
  Is it?
• 39:10
  Because actually the photography thing is really important and actually trying to pose a group of people where one person is a completely different height is a different skill and we've all seen large group photos and then someone on
• 39:21
  the end in a wheelchair, but they don't look part of the photo sometimes, you know, so it's thinking those things through, thinking about, you know, how can we improve that, how can we learn how to do that, how
• 39:31
  can we, you know, just in life make ourselves better?
• 39:34
  I think the question part is interesting and I just want to speak about that briefly because again, I know people will be saying, but I don't want to ask the wrong questions and how do I know whether to
• 39:43
  ask the questions?
• 39:44
  And we said earlier we don't want to make assumptions.
• 39:46
  So do you think it's on the supplier to ask, you know, like, what's the right way to ask someone in any consultation as a standard question?
• 39:55
  Is it, do you have any excess disability needs we need to know about?
• 39:59
  Is it, you know, what is the question we should be asking that's not going to offend people and that we can ask to every single couple.
• 40:05
  So we're not going, oh, we'll ask that to them because they look like they need it, because that's, that's kind of pointless.
• 40:10
  So have you got any advice on that for people?
• 40:13
  I think maybe asking, you know, about either reasonable adjustments saying it that way, or is there any.
• 40:22
  Is ask maybe keeping it as an open question or, you know, when you have a contact form saying if you have any accessibility needs or if you have any specific requests that we can potentially support with having it
• 40:37
  as like an open thing rather than instead of you just having to say like, do you have any accessibility needs?
• 40:44
  It might be more of a open ended kind of box or question saying, is there anything else that we could do to be more supportive of you on your special day?
• 40:56
  You know, something even as simple as that.
• 40:59
  Because I might say, oh, actually I've got a question.
• 41:02
  Can you do this?
• 41:03
  You know, it might open up that, that.
• 41:07
  Yeah, well, no, it opens up that conversation because it basically makes it instead of you having to fight it all the time and say, I'm this, I'm that.
• 41:18
  Can you do this?
• 41:19
  Can you do that?
• 41:19
  It actually shows you that they care first, you know, and they're asking the question question first.
• 41:24
  And that, you know, that just suddenly changes the dynamic.
• 41:27
  And then we'll make you open to ask questions because, you know, we're making someone feel seen rather than, I think sometimes we're putting on the other person to tell us that there's something.
• 41:37
  Whereas actually we should be looking and we should be asking.
• 41:39
  And I think, I think it's one to think about.
• 41:42
  If anyone listening is.
• 41:43
  Is doing this already has got any tips and any advice?
• 41:45
  I'm sure Charlotte would love to hear from you.
• 41:47
  I'm sure she would love to hear your stories from.
• 41:49
  You know, we're hearing a lot of stories, stories from the other side, from the couples themselves and sometimes the not so good stories.
• 41:56
  But actually, if you're doing things in your business on the other side or if people have got positive experiences, they'd be good to hear too, because as an industry, we can then learn from each other and see what
• 42:06
  people are doing.
• 42:07
  Well, so in a nutshell, then, what do you think as a wedding industry, what does true accessibility look like to you?
• 42:18
  Wow.
• 42:20
  Sorry.
• 42:21
  Just trying to.
• 42:21
  That's a big question.
• 42:23
  Yeah.
• 42:23
  I think.
• 42:27
  Having the representation, having the all as much inclusion as possible, the accessibility being what that person needs to have a day that is just as special as everybody else's, whether that be small, reasonable adjustments or whether the whole
• 42:46
  venue needs to be accessible or just the suppliers being on your side of going, oh, we can help with this thing, or this can go well, if we do it this way, it's just making it personal to that
• 43:01
  couple.
• 43:02
  Whether their needs are big or small.
• 43:05
  That adjustment or that accessibility need might completely change the way that their day goes.
• 43:12
  And, you know, it's, It's.
• 43:14
  It's hard to answer what it truly looks like because it's different for everyone.
• 43:18
  But just to be able to have the same special day as everybody else gets.
• 43:23
  I think, I think you've.
• 43:25
  You've named your project so well because ultimately, at the heart of it, what I'm hearing is you just want to be seen.
• 43:31
  You just wanted to see yourself in this industry.
• 43:34
  You just wanted to feel like you can be part of it in the way any other couple can be part of it.
• 43:40
  And when you don't feel seen or you feel, like, pushed to one side or like they're using the accessible change room as a store cupboard, that doesn't feel good for anyone.
• 43:50
  And ultimately what you're trying to do now is, is change that and start it so that no one else in your situation has to feel that way that you have in the future.
• 44:00
  And I think you're well on the way to doing that and I know you're going to do some big things.
• 44:04
  So if there are people listening, whether it's venues, planners, photographers, florists, Chris, the national wedding show, hitched, any of them, are there things that you think this is how they can get involved?
• 44:15
  How can they get involved with what you're doing?
• 44:17
  I, I'm completely open to.
• 44:20
  You can either send me a dm, you can email me through my, I've got a link in my bio, any way you want to get involved.
• 44:28
  I'm open to everything pretty much of whether you want me to come and look at your venue, whether you just need a bit of advice on a zoom call, whether you want to be part of a photo shoot
• 44:40
  that I want to do or do you want to be on the directory or anything that you want to do.
• 44:46
  If you just want to ask me some questions on a dm, absolutely fine.
• 44:51
  Or just share the page like it, comment, whatever you want to do.
• 44:56
  I, I just, I just think even just putting yourself out there to say, you know what, I'm not perfect.
• 45:02
  I don't know everything that the, that I need to know about accessibility, but I'm willing to learn and be better.
• 45:09
  I think that's enough.
• 45:12
  So, yeah, I'm open, I'm all ears to everything.
• 45:15
  So at this point, we're right at the beginning of the journey and so at this point right now, as of the towards autumn 2026, you're open to people just reach out and say, I'm up for getting involved.
• 45:26
  And I would just, I just want to put a word of caution out there and I'm fairly sure that, that 99% of my listeners, if not 100% of them, because hopefully I, I attract good people are have the
• 45:38
  right intentions.
• 45:40
  But if you're listening to this and you're thinking, yeah, I want to get involved for a free marketing opportunity, I would encourage you not to get involved because actually, you know, that's not what this is about.
• 45:50
  I think if you want to reach out and chat to Charlotte, it's because you genuinely have a heart of, I want to improve this.
• 45:55
  You can hear where she's coming from and you're not thinking, oh, I need to get on a direct directory because it'll get me more work.
• 46:01
  That's not the point here.
• 46:02
  If your heart is that you want people to be seen and you've resonated with the conversation we've had today, well, then you're the person that should be reaching out to Charlotte.
• 46:11
  So I just, I just wanted to say that because I think, you know, sometimes we come into an industry, we come into something with a good intention and, and we know that not everyone has always got the same
• 46:20
  intentions than us.
• 46:21
  And I would, I would hate for people to take advantage of, of your heart, of wanting to help.
• 46:27
  So I know that my listeners are good people.
• 46:29
  I'm sure anyone that reaches out to you is, is going to have that mind.
• 46:32
  But I just wanted to encourage people to just reflect on that for a minute and think about how are you thinking about this?
• 46:37
  Are you thinking, yeah, good marketing opportunity or are you thinking, yeah, there's a real issue here and hopefully it's the latter.
• 46:45
  Now, you've mentioned your Instagram, you've mentioned that you've got your email link in bio.
• 46:50
  Is Instagram the best platform to find you on?
• 46:52
  Are you anywhere else else?
• 46:55
  I have dabbled in a bit of Tick Tock but I am not very good at TikTok.
• 47:02
  I've also got a Facebook page.
• 47:03
  It's all at the Unseen Weddings.
• 47:07
  But Instagram seems to be my best platform at the moment.
• 47:14
  I don't know whether that's because I'm more of a millennial or I just don't know how to find the right people on Tick tock.
• 47:21
  But yeah, Instagram is a good place to find me.
• 47:24
  Or ye, there's a link in my Instagram bio to do a contact form if you want to do that and.
• 47:31
  I highly recommend people listen.
• 47:32
  Go and follow it at the Unseen.
• 47:35
  The Unseen bra.
• 47:36
  No, the Unseen Brav got it wrong.
• 47:38
  Hayden, edit this out.
• 47:39
  The Unseen Weddings.
• 47:41
  I would encourage people listening to make sure you go and follow Charlotte's account the Unseen Weddings because she's sharing stories on there from other people that have had experiences, she's sharing updates and because this is right at the
• 47:54
  beginning of the journey, I think there's going to be interesting things for you to look at.
• 47:57
  Find out more ways that you can get involved and see what she's up to.
• 48:00
  So do go and follow her account.
• 48:02
  I'll make sure I link to it in the show notes as well.
• 48:04
  Charlotte, you've been so open and honest with us and I know that you're right at the start of this journey and I think there's some exciting things ahead and I Hope that this has kind of given you a
• 48:15
  bit of a platform to talk to the wider industry and just share your experience and help shape what happens next.
• 48:22
  But I always ask the same question at the end of all my podcasts and we talked about this before we recorded because I said I always ask this question, but you've only just started, so I don't know how
• 48:31
  you're going to answer it.
• 48:31
  So I'll put this to you now.
• 48:33
  What's one thing you wish you'd known sooner with this project?
• 48:39
  I wish I'd have known the response that it would get and that I should have started it a lot sooner.
• 48:47
  It's just really opened up my eyes as well to how many other people are having the same experience and, and I'm glad I've started it now, but I wish I'd have started it a little bit sooner.
• 49:00
  But you know what, I think it's come at the perfect time and I think it will really make a difference in, in the industry.
• 49:08
  Yeah, I absolutely think it will.
• 49:10
  And I think there's a lot more conversations to be had and maybe we'll have to get you back in six months, in a year and talk about hopefully the positives, what's changing, what we're seeing differently out there and
• 49:21
  what back battles we still need to face.
• 49:23
  Charlotte, it's been such a pleasure.
• 49:24
  Thank you so much for giving up your time and I believe doing your first ever podcast interview.
• 49:30
  Yes.
• 49:30
  Yeah.
• 49:31
  Thank you so much for having me.
• 49:32
  It's a pleasure.
• 49:33
  Thank you so much for your time and I will speak to you soon.
• 49:36
  Okay, bye.
• 49:38
  Such an interesting conversation with Charlotte and I hope that that's made you think, I hope it's made you consider your own business and where there's areas that you could get involved with this project or maybe there's areas which
• 49:48
  you think you need to adapt in your own business.
• 49:51
  I think this is just the start of the conversation and I'm excited to see where it takes us next.
• 49:56
  And I think it's a wake up call for our industry that we need to make sure that people do feel seen, whatever their background, whatever their ability.
• 50:04
  It doesn't matter if you're a couple on your wedding day, you should feel like the most special people in the world.
• 50:09
  I'll see you all next time.