Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Why apprenticeships in Finanical Planning are a great way to train the next generation of Financial Advisers

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Why apprenticeships in Finanical Planning are a great way to train the next generation of Financial Advisers · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest is Joel Carter.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Joel is a client service executive at Wrathbone Brothers.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: He started his career at Wrathbones on the apprenticeship.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's a two-year apprenticeship.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And within that two years, he spent six months in the financial planning department and fell in love with the profession.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: He got his level four exams all passed, first time before the age of 21, which is amazing.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: But he's now 23 years old, and he's one exam away from Chartered Fellow.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: So he's doing an exceptional job there at Wrathbones.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: But we talk about why, why he's done such an exceptional job, and he is surrounded by mentors, and he's so appreciative of all of their support in helping him get up to the level he is now.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: He's incredibly grounded.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: He talks about the client service executive role and the part it plays in the financial planning process and what he is doing to help progress his career forward by attending meetings with the financial planners.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely loved talking to Joel and uh look out for his advice about how to pass exams first time.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoy.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Joel.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Live podcast.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm well, thank you.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're keeping well?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I am, yeah, really good.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as we just discussed prior to uh pressing record, which always feels different.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always like bang, I'm into like presenter mode when I press record.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: It just comes naturally now.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: But prior to that, I was rushing around like a headless chicken, sort of trying to get posts out, trying to do some editing and videos and interviews on Zoom with different people.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So been a busy, productive morning, loved it.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now I get the pleasure to sit down and relax and find out about your career, what you've been up to, and um why you love the profession financial planning.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, Joel, in the first instance, then tell us why and how you got into financial planning.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so considering I've only been in the industry about five years now, five, six years, it's quite a long story, which is good.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I I when I was in school uh in sixth form, uh during my second and first and second year of sixth form, uh I was able to get some work experience in an IFA in Liverpool.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: That the only way that that happened was my mum sort of knew someone who was able to offer me.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I was extremely lucky in the couple of weeks that I'd done work experience that I met two gentlemen from Quilter Sheviat Investment Management in Liverpool.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's Tim, Timothaiu, and David Lowe, who when I got speaking to them about, you know, sort of where I was at in school and what I wanted to do, uh they sort of invited me for another bit of work experience in Quilter Sheviat's offices in Liverpool.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that was obviously to have a look at the investment side of things.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was there, I was extremely lucky in the sense that they were able to give me some time and sit down and say, you know, these are some of the businesses which, if you're looking to get into investments, uh I would look at because when I was sort of 16, 18, I was much more aware of the investment side of things and financial planning, which I think is quite common.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and following that conversation, um, I applied for the Rathbone Apprenticeship Scheme in 2015.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, absolutely fantastic scheme.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there was a lot of people who applied for it, and they took six grad uh six apprenticeships on.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then from there, as when I was on my two-year apprenticeship, I spent six months in financial planning.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: And to be honest, that was the first time I'd come across financial planning, even though obviously I'd spent a lot of time in uh an IFA and then an investment bank itself.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: But before then, I hadn't really actually dealt much with the financial planning side of the industry.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that was sort of the first point that I came across.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: It really enjoyed my six months in what it was previously known as R Pass in in Rathbones.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and following the end of my two-year apprenticeship in 2017, became a parent member of Rathbone Financial Planning in my current role, which is the client service executive.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: All right, well, let's stop it there then, because I've got a couple of questions.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you were very young to get into financial services in general.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: So around the time when you went down for some work experience with Quilter Shivia, how old were you?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I probably would have been 16.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So again, you know, when I was 16, I wasn't thinking about going to work for an investment company, you know.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So just talk to me a little bit about why that was an attractive route to you, even at that age, that you wanted to learn about financial services and investments.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think um, in terms of why I decided to go down that route, it was definitely something which when I was at school, I was much more of a maths-y business type person.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: The A levels I chose are maths, business, and ICT, which really fit into the financial planning or investment management industry.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'd also had a couple of family members who I'd knew worked in that sort of industry.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I went for the couple of weeks' work experience at Quilters, uh that for me did it because just seeing the offices and the people and the culture of the business, I was sort of ready to sort of push all my chips into the middle and say, I want to sort of have a crack at this.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so family members inspired you to potentially to look at a career within financial planning.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: The opportunity to get that work experience and bring you in.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And this is an interesting point you just made there.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: 16 years old getting work experience in an investment company, yeah?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Financial services company.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: You were only there for a couple of weeks then, weren't you?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it was enough, wasn't it?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was enough to spark something in you that made you feel like, wow, this is type, this is the type of place I want to be, this is the type of place that I want to work.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess as well, you know, this is a good message to any financial planning companies of any shape, any size.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to inspire the next generation, just open your doors, perhaps, over you know, for a week and bring a group of people in, bring a couple of guys in, whatever it is, just give some people the opportunity to see behind the scenes of what it's like to work within the financial planning profession.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it inspires people, doesn't it?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: You walk away and you're probably thinking, wow, that's exactly where I want to be.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, did it have that effect to you then, by the sounds of it?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: It did.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, massively.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was the first time that I'd ever sort of come across it because even in school, when we look at business, it's very much looking at companies, you know, it's looking at you know how they've sort of come off from the ground and that sort of thing.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was never, ever about investment management or financial planning.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and that that week also I had with Tim and David, that was for me the moment where I said, no, this is definitely a career I want to sort of start off on.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so a hundred percent work experience, apprenticeships, graduate schemes for me, it's it's the best way to get young talent into a business.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Get them engaged and get them interested in the profession, let them see exactly what it's like, not hear about it.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you don't even hear about financial planning as a profession anyway, in school universities, even so, you know.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the things that people think about or are aware of is you know, uh, accountancy or solicitors.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, it's not looked at as a profession enough, financial planning.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And there isn't a there aren't these links between schools, university, and colleges.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that I really want to be a part of.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Creating that link.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I want the financial planner life podcast to go into these schools, universities, colleges, do a live podcast with somebody that's come from the profession, with people in there thinking about or wanting to know more, and doing a like a live QA.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think um it needs to be brought to those people, brought to the universities and get the university careers guys talking about it as a profession.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the profession doesn't do itself any favors because there isn't any direct route into financial planning, such as you know, accountancy or becoming a solicitor.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think you get like 400,000 people leave university with a uh qualification, um, a law, law degree, for example, 400,000 or something stupid like that.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: But there's only 200,000 or like like solicitors and and lawyers, you know.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got all these people doing all those qualifications.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Why not get them to do financial planning instead?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's another private, so you know, private client service, it's just a different, different angle.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I suppose they're just not aware of it, you know, they're not aware of it.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's that's the key issue.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was more aware of accountancy and accuracy uh actuaries at jobs, uh actuary jobs before financial planning, you know, and a lot of my friends at school were as well.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: And even when I was potentially going to university before I found the apprenticeship scheme, it was to do accounting and finance, which again it doesn't lend itself to investment management or financial planning um as directly as a financial planning education mod was, where which is exactly what I got through an apprenticeship scheme and then three more years of you know experience.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right, cool.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you did your did your apprenticeship, so not your apprenticeship, sorry, you did your your work experience.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: How did you end up?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Did you say you went from work experience to an apprenticeship?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um I'd done my work experience in the sort of um years between the last year of sixth form.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so done my my work experience there, finished uh my last year, and then when I was drawing my last year, I was applying for apprenticeships.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so applied for one with Quilters Sheviat, and but the Rathbones one for me, uh it was headed up by a guy named Paul Lochlin, who I still speak to uh to today, he now works as head of investments for Brook Brooks MacDonald in London.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: He he for me was one of the main reasons why I definitely wanted to go with Rathbones just from seeing his progression over a 25-year period and how well he he sold the apprenticeship scheme.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and to be honest, looking back at it now, it was definitely the best decision I ever made.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, was he part of the apprenticeship scheme himself?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Did he go through it?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Did he run it?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: What he ran it.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: So he'd been in the business uh I think 20 to 25 years at that point.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: He was deputy COO of the company, so extremely uh high up.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and what that meant was you really felt looked after and and you know protected in the apprenticeship scheme.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because one thing which I've seen when I've been sort of reviewing apprenticeships and going back and looking at companies who offered them is that mentorship element of an apprenticeship and and of work in general is vitally important.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: And the six the six people that were took on uh in my year of the apprenticeship all stayed on as parent employees, and the main thing that we all took from it was that we all felt extremely protected by the the sort of apprenticeship board that we have in the company, right?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's very interesting.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got all these apprenticeships that are sort of knocking around and being offered to companies.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you know, I had a couple of apprentices on a few years ago, and uh it's kind of like sold to the company, us.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you take these guys on, you don't have to pay them that much money.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you it's almost kind of like saying you can take advantage of people, you know, bring them in, get them to do the jobs you want them to do, and you don't have to pay a full amount of money, and we'll give you some money to actually take them on.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're all incentivized to bring on apprentices.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um so when you joined Wrathbones, then you were part of an apprenticeship scheme, but was it headed up by Rathro Wrathbones apprenticeship scheme, or was it like you were being assessed by an external assessor?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, it was all through Wrathbones.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: So we had our training provider, which was Cisco at the time, uh, but it was all internally ran through Rathbones.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: And what that sort of that was probably one of the best buy-in values for me is that you had extremely experienced people in the business sitting on what they call an apprenticeship board.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so when we were going through our interviews, we had a panel of 10 people interviewers and and we had to do a presentation.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: It was a week long, but what that meant was it really you really did get to know uh who that you were going to be working with, who you were going to be looked after, who were the senior people in the business.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and for me, you know, if I if I in the you know future ever want to run an apprenticeship scheme, that is definitely going to be the way that I do it.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Fabulous.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean, Crikey, how old how old were you about 16 years old and you haven't to present over a week to 10 different people?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so at that time I was 17 and they can't actually employ anyone until 18.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: But luckily, I was August 29th, my birthday, so I joined 14th of September at Rathbones, so just made the cut at that at that point in terms of the age.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Fair play, that's some serious experience.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Then how many people went forward for that apprenticeship?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there was a lot of applicants, and then they whittled it down to about 20 who uh were on the apprenticeship week, and then by the end of the week, we had six.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and all six completed the two-year apprenticeship, it'd done extremely well, and we've now got out of the six of us, we've got obviously myself, we've got Jarlie, who is a compliance uh monitoring officer for financial planning, we've got an accountant in Alana, we've got a transfers administrator.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so we've got a lot of people who are now highly experienced in the business, all through you know, internal growth of the apprenticeships.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know I'm banging on about apprenticeships, but I don't speak to many people that have gone through an actual apprenticeship within financial planning.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something I think definitely needs to be put into place with firms of all different shapes and sizes.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, certain companies of certain sizes are able to accommodate it far easier.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And wrathbones have obviously, you know, a size of Wrathbones, and they've got like six people going through it, just shows you how difficult it is to manage, if you like, or to put into place a proper um process, if you like, for apprentices.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I know it sounds like I'm rattling on about it, but I'm interested, you know, and I think people listening to this podcast, especially when they've got no experience, and perhaps they might be thinking about financial planning as a career and they're in the early stages of thinking about it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps they're in college, perhaps they're in university school, a bit like yourself, when you were thinking about it.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So when you did the apprenticeship, how long did it last?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a two-year apprenticeship.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can you sort of give me a journey, if you like, of what you went through on your apprenticeship with Wrathbones?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: So my apprenticeship, I was in operations back office for investments.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: What that uh meant is that I spent six months on four different teams uh in my two-year period.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: So got a really good overview of the business.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um as soon as I joined, I was assigned a mentor and buddy.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so mentor is very much all to do with work.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, they look after you on, they're not on your team.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: So if you've got any questions about you know things that have happened on the job that you don't want to talk to your you know your team about, you can go to them.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Buddy is very much the opposite, it's nothing about work and it's all about social.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm really pleased to say my buddy, who I got assigned, is probably now one of my best friends and still works at Wrathbones.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I still keep in touch with my mentor.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: So that was really important from the get-go.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Once I was on the apprenticeship scheme, um, it was really enjoyable in terms of learning the different parts of the business.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: So initially in administration, looking at how we set accounts up, moving over to transfers, understanding the transfer process for accounts coming in and out, financial planning was six months.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Again, absolutely vital, vitally important for people to have an understanding of it, even if it's not for those long-term careers.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then the CRM process about you know, more so IT skills and that sort of thing.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that was two years before we it they say in the last three months you can start applying for jobs.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that two-year overview is brilliant because it just gave me so much knowledge of the business, um, so much experience of the systems that we use.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I it's quite funny, it's a running gag now that some people call me Ferris Bueller because I just know everyone in the business because I've worked on so many different teams.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: When you let's just break that financial planning bit down, then that six months you're in financial planning.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Just tell me what you were doing whilst you were in the sixth-month period of learning about financial planning.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: So the six months was mostly admin.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it was in our sort of administration team assisting the the financial planners in terms of getting policy information and that sort of thing.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, supporting.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and how many financial planners were you were you working with and supporting?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: So at the time, I think we had two in Liverpool and maybe about 15 nationwide.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Fabulous.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, some really good exposure then for you, isn't it?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really good exposure.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose you were positioned in teams where you were, as you mentioned, your buddy and your mentor, but I guess you were working also in teams of people that have been doing the job for years.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they were experienced.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or were you kept out of the way as a as an apprentice?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: No, not at all.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think again, going back to the success that Paul ran with the apprenticeship scheme, you never felt like an apprentice.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that that is vitally important.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: You felt as part of the business so that when it came around to your apprenticeship finishing, you know, there was a reason why all six were took on.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, in other cohorts of apprenticeships, the majority of people have been taken on because you know, you were looked at as an employee.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and as you were saying earlier, you know, the the incentive is with the company to take apprenticeships on due to the salary and due to the apprenticeship levy that's in place.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: But it's also a massive benefit for them if they can train you for two years and bring someone in, let's say, if you're comparing it to someone who's brand new, you've got two years' experience of knowing absolutely everything about the business.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we we were very much part of the teams that we were working in.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was quite funny.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Some teams didn't want to let us go.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I had an extension in my first placements from six to eight months because they didn't want to let me go.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you're building really solid foundations, really solid relationships.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Your skill set is so vast as well.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you're learning every aspect of the business.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think because I think there's always something about an apprentice, um, especially when you're a more experienced member of staff, is you just kind of you view them slightly differently.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: You don't take advantage.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: What you instead you do is you you feel obliged or or compelled to want to help that person because they're there, probably not earning as much as they probably hoped they would earn.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: So they're taking on a lot lower salary, but have got a massive willingness and keenness.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people who have experience don't think, oh God, what a burden.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: They actually think, I really want to help this person.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I want this person to get ahead.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you you get a bit of special treatment, I think, when you are an apprentice.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Would you say that was true or not?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I definitely think people want to help, yeah, 100%.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've had in those two years that I spent as an apprentice, I had a lot of people go out the way for me, which I'll never forget.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but in terms of special treatment, I'm not sure in my experience.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think we were very much treated as employees, you know.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: When we we were doing the jobs, it was it wasn't any different.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't get any additional meetings with our manager, it was the same.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't get any you know support in terms of pursuing the role, but actually in terms of your whole experience, you got that additional support.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then obviously the one thing that we did have which was different to every other employees is that we were doing uh qualifications during our apprenticeship as well.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that started in year one with uh level three MDQ Business Administration, and then on the second year we'd done uh the IOC, which is the CISI investment operation certificate.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you left school without without going to university, didn't you?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: I did, and and to me that was looking back now, the best decision I've made so far in terms of my career.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, that's a very bold statement, and I think something that I think a lot of young uh adults need to consider uh when they leave school at 16.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is education really where they want to go?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is it really what they want to do?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: What is their end goal?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: What is it they want to achieve?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because hey, it's expensive, it's time consuming, and you could end up doing something that you resent and you come out, and I have them come to me, they come and work as recruit recruitment consultants.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now you don't have to have a degree to be a recruitment consultant, you know.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: We take people on without degrees, yeah.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Same as they do that clearly within financial planning.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's again it's that kind of educational piece, isn't it?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you are 16, 17, 18 years old, just take a little look outside first before you make the decision of going to university because you might regret it.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you're living proof that if you do take a look at on-the-job training, on-the-job studying, it can do wonders for your career.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, how old are you now?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: 21 years old, aren't you?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: 20 23 at the moment, yeah.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, 23 years old.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Great stuff.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And whilst you were doing your apprenticeship, right?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose the money isn't an issue either, because um you weren't spending it all on beer, were you at 17 years old?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: You weren't pretty well.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I bet you were a bit gutted when you were going down the pub after work, weren't you?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I'd just turned 18 when I started the apprenticeship.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: But uh just about it was two weeks.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah, the first few weeks was quite funny because um my friends were in university doing freshers, but then on the same hands, uh, you know, work social life in Rothburns was brilliant, and and it's sort of to me, they were saying, you know, are you gonna miss out on this university experience?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, you know, I I look at the experiences I had socially with Rothburns, and I'd actually say it was on par because I I did go to some freshers and you know, pretend to be a bit you know, a university student, but some of the uh the Rathbones ones were brilliant.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: I did exactly the same.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't go to university.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: I left school at 16, didn't go to university, started working, and I ended up meeting a girl who was on freshers.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I was out with her all the time on Earth Rush's nights trying to get up and go to work.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only difference.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't have to get up at about three in the afternoon, but I had to get out to go to work at the time.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: But um, okay, cool, brilliant.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's really cool.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you so much for sort of ex sort of showing and telling really about your experiences through the apprenticeship because um it's a great route for somebody who's considering leaving school doing something different.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the only issue I would say is it's quite can be quite tough to find an apprenticeship apprenticeship within financial planning.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what would your advice be to anybody that's thinking about doing an apprenticeship within financial planning?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: What would your advice be um to help them find one?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it's a really good point.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think the main issue that we have is schools and sixth forms, they just aren't aware of apprenticeship schemes as they are in university.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'd say about 90% of my year in sixth form went to university.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and only a few either didn't do anything or got an apprenticeship.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and looking for an apprenticeship, if you don't know where to look, is very difficult.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, in terms of what I did, I was extremely lucky of having that conversation with Tim and David in quilters and understanding where best to look.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: The best place is the government websites for apprenticeships, as long as you do your research, you know, they can be sold as this fantastic apprenticeship scheme, you know, guaranteed job at the end, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it that's not necessarily the case.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so the government website, I was also registered with the Liverpool Chamber of Commerce, who sort of not recruitment, but sort of an intermediary between firms and apprenticeships, uh, which was really good.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I found about the Quilter one.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then a couple of other avenues, but mainly it was the government websites, and then doing additional research beyond that, you know.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I found Rathburne's one on there, actually had a look into the company, seeing that they'd done it previously.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, something which was really good for me is that one of the girls who went to a school near mine, Bluecoat, had been on that apprenticeship scheme, so and got a job afterwards.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I understood the uh the process then.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, they they were the main avenues for me, but it's all about doing your research.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Good advice, great stuff.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you did your apprenticeship.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now you mentioned, just going back on that, that towards the end you were given the sort of opportunity to choose the route that you felt was best for you within Wrathbones.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you picked financial planning.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: There was a couple of reasons behind that.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it was very much what job opportunities were available at the time, but also for me, I wanted to develop the client experience aspects.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and there was a role front-facing uh client service executive for financial planning.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I probably would say at the time my heart was in investments because we were in an investment company, I'd done my IOC.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: The next exam I was planning to do was the IAD.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I really did enjoy my six months with financial planning, and the guy who took me on, Andy Greenwood, uh, was an extremely experienced manager.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: I trusted him and I thought actually this could be a fantastic career ahead of me and was lucky enough to get that role.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it's I've loved every second of it.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's been one of the best opportunities that I could have ever asked for.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is really interesting because it doesn't just happen to 18, 19, 20 year olds, it happens to everybody.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: What route do I go down?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do I go investment or do I go financial planning?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: What I'd just love to know, Joel, is why you chose financial planning.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: What was it about financial planning that made you think this is the career for me?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's there's two aspects to it.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the first being I knew the team in Rathbones I was going to be working with.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: So just to give you a brief overview, we had Mike Hunter, who had come from Lloyd.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: He's over 30 years in the industry, a senior financial planner.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: You I could definitely see a mentorship role that he could take on and look after us.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: We've got a financial planner in Andy Stevenson, who's come up through the ranks.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: He's been with Rath Burns, you know, I think nearly 10 years now.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that team was really good.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually thought that would be a really fun job to do and really well looked after.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: But the second point, which I think is probably key to something which you're seeing specifically, is the mood move towards financial planning in comparison to investments over the last five years.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think businesses now are much more financial planning led than they are investments.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And whether that's because of RDR in the past or just how the market's going, from my experiences, it seems to be all heading in that direction and not just for Rathbones.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're absolutely right about RDR, where an advisor would have earned some money from the commissions that they earned off the back of selling the products.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: They were essentially product sellers.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: To be able to justify an ongoing fee arrangement, getting rid of trail income, you know, getting rid of the commission income, you know, trail income essentially, and bringing in this fee-based income, you have to be able to provide a level of service, and that is financial planning.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: And there are a handful of companies out there that were doing full financial planning, the full cash flow modeling type stuff.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but not a lot of people were.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of paved the way to for financial planning to be a more um professional-based career path as opposed to a sales-based career path.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um that's the kind of pull that I that the reason why I can see it there.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: I also like the idea, and this is something I always talk about anyway.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: You've listened to my podcast a few times, but I love the kind of concept of financial planning being this well-being proposition that you sit down with somebody and you are looking at their complete uh future, aren't you?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Their current situation, but you're looking at their future, you're finding out what their hopes, their dreams are, what their worries are, their concerns.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And what you're trying to do is kind of uh correlate what you can do with their financial future to match what their expectations are, but also to reduce or match it to their expectations.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So they feel happier and more content and less worried.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's the bit I think is the beautiful bit, the real work, I think, personally.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: No, the holistic approach is definitely for me a real benefit of why people would choose financial planning over investments, because you, as you say, you're not just looking at one part of it, you're looking at as as we say, that the whole pie.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just one slice, which is the investment side of things, it's everything, it's you know, inheritance, uh, it's tax planning, it's it's all those different aspects that will come into it.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and for most clients, it's much more than just one area, it's that view of everything.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: You obviously are very articulate and you come across really well.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um talking to you now, it's easy, you know.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a big part, isn't it, of financial planning is the relationship side and the client experience, the experience they have when they sit down with a financial planner.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we were just talking about that, weren't we?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, naturally that was obviously probably a route for you based on your personality, perhaps.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not to say investment managers and people who work in investments have no personality, as I insult every investment manager out there.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a different skill.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's I don't know if it's a different skill set, you know.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: The financial planning piece isn't what an investment manager does, is it?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're two separate things.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: And historically, you wouldn't ever bring an investment manager and a financial planner together in the same room with the same client because they were quite protective.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas now you're seeing that relationship being formed and built, and you know, you are in the same room as the investment manager, and you're considered a piece of the puzzle that needs to be fitted.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that goes the same with power planners, doesn't it?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you bring in an investment manager, you bring in a power planner, you bring in the client relationship manager, all of a sudden there's a team of people, isn't there?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's a service, there's a whole load of people that are looking after that client.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that boutique type feel, that that client experience, that private office feel, that dare I say it, family office type approach that the clients like, especially the time poor clients like, you know, very wealthy time poor clients out there who expect a higher level of service and will pay for it.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's where I see that, you know.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me a little bit about your exposure and your experience to clients, because the role you're doing at the moment is the client services executive.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Just give us a brief overview of what that position is, what you're doing within that role, and actually then we'll talk about the client exposure that you're getting.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: So the client services executive role is much more administration-based than it is front office.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: However, there is still an element of front office that you can get in terms of what we do is we prep the advisors for their meetings.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: We make sure that everything's in order, you know, what plans he may be looking at to review, you know, anything that may be upcoming and that sort of thing.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: But then also, if they make a recommendation, we actually implement that advice and we set up products and that sort of thing.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Where probably my uh ability to uh speak to clients and that sort of thing has improved, is I've been very lucky with my two financial planners because they've wanted me to come into meetings, they see the added value that I can bring, and and that sort of feel is as you say, it's it's a team, it's not just one person.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think to be honest, clients absolutely love that because they can see actually that there's so much going on in the background then that they may not have been aware of.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and that's sort of the experience that I've had, and and you know, credit goes to my financial plans for doing that because it is a risk, definitely.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that bringing a sort of a young 21, 22-year-old into meetings is a risk, but at the same time, it's the long-term planning that that my advisors have looked for, and that's been the best thing that I could have ever asked for.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, what we're saying here is some advice perhaps that you might give might echo what Jonathan J from InvestTech said on my podcast, which was about the individual who's the client executive, so someone like yourself, maybe doing the administration role, um, that wants to step up and progress their career perhaps into power planning, is to challenge the financial planner, sort of say, look, bring me into one of those meetings and let me deliver a piece of this presentation for you.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not asking to sit in there, I'm not gonna embarrass you, I'm not gonna let you down, but give me something that I can come in that will enhance the meeting and think that that so that client knows that they've got other people within the business that are looking after them.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the sort of approach that you did?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely, because in in the long term, you know, people are gonna move on, people are gonna retire.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Where if you've got a staple of certain people in the team that are always with you in terms of being a client, that's such an important aspect because that trust, that relationship, that stays the same.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas when advisors maybe move on and you get a brand new advisor, you've never met anyone in the team before, that can actually be quite difficult because that is basically a brand new relationship.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas I think the way that Wrathbones are working at the moment is very much a proactive sense of ensuring that relationship is cemented in the team aspect, which is definitely something which Jonathan, I know who's been on your podcast, agrees with.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you'll only see the benefit of that.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if if they're trained right and they're looked after properly, there's the risk is very minimal because you wouldn't take someone into a meeting without knowing sort of how they're going to perform.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I was there a year before I was sort of introduced to any client meetings, and by then Mike and Andy knew exactly what I was bringing to the table.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a little bit about what you were bringing to the table in those client meetings?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, to be honest, it was mainly making sure that Mike and Andy hadn't missed anything.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now, they're very experienced uh planners, and 99 times out of 100 they don't.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: But having that sort of customer service executive role in there with you, in terms of any paperwork or that sort of thing, that that's vitally important because they're the areas which actually aren't necessarily anything big to miss, but it's actually quite time-saving.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're they've definitely been the added value sections that I've brought into the meetings.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then also as I've progressed through my exams and the technical side of things, that's obviously improved tenfold.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because a client executive, uh client services executive role, okay.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: When I hear administrate administrator, you hear a lot within the financial planning profession.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: I work within administration.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean the amount of administrators that I talk to, they're not administrators, you know, they're almost client, they're client services.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're they're they're they're they're phoning up the product providers, so they're on the telephone.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Instantly that means you're on the phone, which means you're not an administrator, you're flat out on the phone, phoning people up, being on hold, pushing for documents, having to build relationships with certain people.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're phoning the client up to ask them information, making sure you're doing it professionally.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're answering the phone if they've got any queries or they they're checking on anything, and then the financial planner's not available.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you are doing every aspect, it's not just sitting there pushing paper around, putting a few things in, data input.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing a lot of things that are teaching you the um relationship skills, if you like.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're building the relationship skills it takes to become a financial planner, dealing with, you know, the yeah, the things the financial planner hasn't the time to deal with, but are vitally important to the relationship.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, massively.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's been where I think the role in Wrathbones specifically, I've I've enjoyed so much because it's not just been about, as you say, admin, you know, file this for me, etc.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's been so much more.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: And to be honest, I think that's why I've succeeded with the exams as well as I have done, is because I've had the best of both worlds of, you know, a really regimented revision schedule.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: But then on the job experience has been fantastic.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's talk about that revision.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about the qualifications that are required to become a financial planner and let's uh have a little chat about your experience around that.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you passed your qualifications at the age of 21.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: You were level four diploma qualified at the age of 21.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: First off, that's amazing.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's not very many, it's not often I come across many, many, well, you're 23 now, but you were 21 at the time, people of that age that have passed their level four qualifications.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I'd just like to do is find out a little bit about your journey in getting those qualifications passed, the realities of passing those qualifications, timescales, etc., how you passed them, what was your study uh sort of uh process, what support you got.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, fire away, tell us all about the qualifications, how you got yourself up to level four qualification by the age of 21 years old.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it started with the IOC when I was on my apprenticeship.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: So that was very much a foundation and investments.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: What that allowed me to do is when I got my permanent role in financial planning, I wanted to start with the RO2 investments because obviously it was very similar.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'd just finished my exams on it.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so the one of the harder ROs I'd I'd probably describe was actually one of my best um because I'd had that experience.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it was in terms of the ROs, it was about 13 months uh from start to completion.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'd done it in an order which was not R01 to R06.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't advise doing them one to six unless you know that's definitely the route you want to go down, because I definitely think you should take from the experience that you've already had.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: And mine was investments, and therefore that's why I started with R02.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: So done R02, uh moved on to back to R01, uh, because again, there was a lot of relapse in terms of regulations and that that had done from the IOC, um, and then went on to R04.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the reason I've done it in that way is because um pensions is extremely prevalent in our business, and I wanted to make sure that I knew what was getting said in client meetings, what you know, what I was liaison with providers with.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that was definitely an important unit for me to get nailed down as soon as possible.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: So rather than carrying on to R03 or R05 or R06, I wanted to get pensions done next.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that's R02, R01, or R04.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: What I then done was because R06 is a written unit, you can only sit it four times a year.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: When I completed R04, it was I think two weeks away from the R06 sitting.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what's great about R06 is it's a case study based exam, which meant that it was just two weeks of like lock me in a room and I'll see you in two weeks, and then I'll sit the exam.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: So extremely hardcore revision for that exam, but it wasn't like a month to two months revision, it was two weeks.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was able to pass that, move on to R05, which is obviously the only level three exam in the diploma, which was fairly straightforward, and then finished with, in my opinion, the hardest uh RO, which is R03 taxation.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I left taxation to the end because one, I had the most motivation to pass it at the end because then I would be diploma qualified.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: And two, I had all that knowledge before I took the exam, which meant if a question came up that I hadn't read about, I could have a best guess.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: So doing say R04 or R03 first to me wouldn't necessarily make that much sense.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's a brilliant explanation.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think anyone's ever given me a decent sort of breakdown like that before.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Fair place you.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, how long did it take you to get your qualifications?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it was uh I think February 2018 to March 2019, so about 13 months.
• 39:45
  unknown: 13.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, okay.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me about the timescales then.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let's that was 13 months, but how much of your time was dedicated to passing these exams and how did you sort of manage your time accordingly?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: I it was um a lot of time and effort put into it.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um I wouldn't lie to anyone and say it's you know a fairly straightforward pathway.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot of sort of you know, before work, reading, you know, late night reading the books, you know, lunch hours.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what I've done was stick to the same regiment of for every exam, and luckily had passed the first time on every one, which was uh an hour before work, typing up notes on you know topics that are likely to come up, lunch hours, you know, trying to fit 40 minutes in there when I can, after hours, doing an hour or so after work, and then you know, absolutely like a regimented soldier read it, reading the book at for at least 20 minutes a night.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because to me, the answers are in that book, you've just got to find them.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what a lot of people tend not to do because it is boring at times, is not pick up the book.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and they'd much rather do flashcards or you know, type notes up or you know, use study materials, but actually the book is is the exam.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's what they have to base it off.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you do, did you so you you you read the actual CII study book.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't buy a different study book that's been sort of rewritten or anything.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: You use the the actual CII study book, did you?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: For every exam cover to cover, I will have definitely read every page of the book at least once.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, you must be the first person that I know who's done that.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty impressive.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know it's bad when you start finding spelling mistakes in one of the books.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: No wonder you were looking at actuarial jobs at one point then.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: So are you a bit of a whiz at maths and uh you seem to have a real attention to detail.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's very kind of you to say that, but not at all.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: I uh I come out of six one with three A levels, but none of which I'd done well in.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't, I got a D, a C, and an E.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of passing exams, it what it wasn't uh like I had a track record of doing it.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Where I probably would say my success lies is I have a sort of a massive chip on my shoulder to say that I will, if I want to do something, I'm gonna do it.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: And what happened, which actually, when I look back, wasn't a real blessing in disguise, was I failed my first ever IOC exam when I was on my apprenticeship scheme.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and my mentor at the time, Paul Lochman, just sort of took me aside and said, right, you know, you didn't have great A levels, you're failing this.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: What's really important now is that you make a statement to say that isn't what you're gonna be judged on over the next few years.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I really took that and ran with it.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, from that time, I haven't failed an exam since then.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, that first sort of like little reality check of these exams are not gonna be as easy as you think, made sure that when I took the next one and then the next one and the next one, I was so prepared beyond belief.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: So in school, not very good at exams, didn't get the most amazing grades, and stepping over into the world of having to get your level four diploma qualified, qualification, sorry, you you nailed it, but you learned that off the you learned to nail it off the back of failing, basically.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: I I put it down to that first IOC exam.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it was just gonna, it's you know, extremely high pass rate, 50 questions, multiple choice.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: I thought this'll be you know a walk in the park.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it really, it was a really good reality check for me and a a lesson which I think over five years it's still still stayed with me.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel as well that you didn't want to let yourself you didn't want to let them down as well because of the the the the the sort of route that they've given you and that kind of almost um and dare I say it, uh arrogance, I guess, that you could pass it first time.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's always nice, isn't it, to get your ego smashed a little bit, I tell you.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's healthy, you know.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is I I love it, you know.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: I and and when you when I run a business, it's it's very difficult sometimes for someone to give me a bit of a chew-in because there isn't anybody above me to give me a bit of a chew-in, you know, and and to smash me down a little bit.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I've now got a mentor outside of the business.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love it when I take something to them and they say, Well, Sam, you're being an egotistical maniac, or you know, you're being selfish, actually, you're thinking selfish, or you're being fearful for that reason.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, Oh yeah, you owe an apology.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, ooh, yeah, I do.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: I probably do owe an apology.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's great that you you you've you've experienced that and that all things don't just happen easy.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit tough to get really what you want, and you've got to put a bit of work and a bit of effort in.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if you do, you get your returns.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: And the moments where we sat, and me and Paul had the discussion of you know, you were took on because of the potential success that you had, not because of your A levels, because obviously you were probably the worst out of the whole 20 years.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Was it probably?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: I imagine so.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: I know they were well off my predicted grades.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I owe a lot to Paul because he I think he definitely did stick his neck out for me.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and exactly what you were saying, that sort of getting knocked down a peg, it's so valuable.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: And and I'd probably say I'd have one or two of those similar since that time.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: There was one time I had a meeting with Mike, and who obviously our senior financial planet really did knock me down a peg, and I loved it.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was the one of the best meetings I had.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and from there, it's just you know, learning to pick yourself back up because failure isn't something which no one has, it's just how you react to it, in my opinion.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: That that's how you know you change the view on it, you know.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: And now we're sitting here talking about how I failed an exam, but it was it was the making of me.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: I love failing.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Failing to me is the most important part of your life.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not failing, you're not learning.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm not saying you have to fail at everything you actually do, but failure is part of success.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: You you cannot have success without failure.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you and failure is short and and and and success is short-lived.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you walk up to the top of the mountain, you enjoy the view, but that's it, it's done, isn't it?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta go and you want to walk up another mountain now for that one, and maybe a bigger one, a bigger one, a bigger one, a bigger one.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're never really truly kind of satisfied.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very kind of momentary satisfaction.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's not to say you can't enjoy, I enjoy every aspect of my day now, every hour of my day.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: I seek happiness in everything that I do.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very mindful.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I had to really kind of fail.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: I had to really fail to work out like I had to hit rock bottom at one point to work out like, oh shit, yeah, failure's all right.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, just don't touch again on mentors because you've spoken to me before about this, and we mentioned Jonathan J and other people that have helped you along the way.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a firm believer that mentorship is absolutely vital in any business, but specifically financial planning, there isn't enough mentorship going on.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me about the mentorship approach that we know what you've had in and outside of Rathbones.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it's it's vitally important.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: One of the reasons, again, I put down the success I've had with exams and that sort of thing.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's been uh the mentors that I've had.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: So to start off with, it was the one that I was assigned on day dot of my apprenticeship, which was Natalie Pritchard, who was a manager in Wrathbones, not someone who was significantly high up in the business, but someone who gave so much time to help me and help me move forward.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: She was one of the one of the best mentors I've had, and you know, really, really good.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: And what that allowed me to do was actually say, right, actually, mentorship is a really good way to get in and learn things that you wouldn't necessarily come across.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: So uh from then on, I've picked up a few more along the way.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: A massive one for me is Ben Barnaby, who is uh a dual chartered uh wealth manager for Atorious.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and he was someone who basically I went to Manchester to meet, uh, literally just off of LinkedIn and said, Do you mind give me 10-15 minutes out your day?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: He was working at Coots at the time, and he basically rattled off in one meeting how to do the these exams.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: That was before I'd done, I think, I'd only ever done two ROs at that point.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: And he basically said, Come back to me when you've passed your diploma.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that was really key for me because it wasn't just, you know, mentorship's got to be a bit of give and take.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just someone sitting there telling you how you've they've made a 20, 30 year career out of it.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's they tell you what to do.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if you go and do it, you then get more and more of the advice.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so Ben's been instrumental for for me in terms of the qualifications and experience side of things, and then many more, ranging from you know, Jonathan, uh Mike, who's been obviously I work directly with, but we've got a senior financial planner in Newcastle, Kirsten McEwen, who is unbelievably technically gifted.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I've spent hours just on the phone to her going, but what if this happens?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then she rattles off another fantastically plausible way of doing something in terms of financial advice.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so important to surround yourself with those people, but make no mistake, you've got to give something back.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you've got to take that advice and run with it rather than just being someone who sits there and goes, yeah, yeah.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really um I'm really pleased for you that you know, 23 years old, you understand the value of giving back for one, okay, not just take, take, take that is a two-way streak.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they get their a mentor gets their fulfillment from knowing that they're helping somebody and that person's coming back for more.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: And not only coming back for more, but sort of coming back and saying what they've done and how they've done it and how they've implemented it.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: That that's what a mentor, that's how a mentor grows.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: They and they grow themselves through explaining something to someone else.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: So when you explain something to someone else and you help someone else, it's amazing how in your head as a mentor, you're almost teaching yourself something again.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's the real value.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a two-way street, you're absolutely dead on with that.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: But what annoys a mentor is when the the mentee is just taking, not implementing, not not not not doing what's been asked or what's been suggested, the direction that's been given.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you're absolutely awake to that, and that's a brilliant bit of advice and a brilliant bit of example of how mentorship helps people grow.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're learning that at the age of 21, 22, 23, your career is gonna fly, but also your network is just gonna grow rapidly.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what's gonna happen as well?
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because all the people that you mentor are gonna be awesome, you're gonna give that back to the next generation so well, you know.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a big passionate believer in mentorship.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's um I think it's vital, and I'm really pleased to hear that it's implemented in your life.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Surround yourself with good people, surround yourself with people that are more experienced than yourself, and you just grow.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and don't be afraid to ask those questions.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be afraid to go to them if you've got a problem, you know, because they want to hear about your problems, believe it or not.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to not hear about your problems, they want to solve them, they want to help you get um that rid of that mental block so you can deal with it and learn from it and grow.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm a bit of a hippie when it comes to that sort of thing because I've experienced it and it works twofold, you know, both both both ways.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: It really does.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: And as you say, it's that, you know, a great example was me going to Manchester just to meet someone who you know I've now had a three, four-year mentorship with.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you've got to go out your way and get out your comfort zone a little bit sometimes because you know, the end goal and the outcome is it's so beneficial for you in the long run.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: Talking about the long run, then, where are you, you know, where are you right now in your career?
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: And what does the next couple of years look like to you?
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I'm sort of at the stage now where I sort of would love to be on a not, I don't like the term academy scheme, but sort of just an advisory skills scheme to where actually we're focusing on getting me to a financial planning stage.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that would be the next sort of port of call for me.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and really getting the ins and outs of the advice standards and being able to give the correct advice and all working with all the different types of clients, that would be for me the next step.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's no sort of um no, like I want to be a financial planner in two years.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's not me at all.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: The business that Brathbones have got, especially, is very much in terms of it's a the Liverpool office is a growing plan.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that that's the goal for us.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: And at the moment, I'm with you know, for some fantastic people.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so for me, it's about getting onto that advisor skills, really digging down into the advice standard sort of things, qualifications.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: And now, luckily, I've got one exam left to do in terms of financial planning, and then I'm gonna, I say I'm gonna go back to CISI and do the PCAM, I think it is, which is to become a dual wealth manager.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and I've heard that's quite a tough one.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: But so that's in terms of the next few years in the long run.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, at the moment, I'm definitely leaning towards financial planning, uh, then in comparison to investments, just the way that the market's going, the experience that I've got, and the way that obviously the businesses that I'm I'm in at the moment and are you know, our competitors, they're all moving in that direction.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so we've had uh our youngest financial planner was 27 in Glasgow, uh Alana Fleming, she was unbelievable.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: I've worked with her for you know five years now, absolutely incredible at 27 financial planning.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, that that would be sort of the end goal.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: So have another you know, three or four years really nailing it down, and then when you step up, you've got that experience to fall back on.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: Love it, mate.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Realistic expectations.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: This non-you know, your need there isn't like me, me, me.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: I need this, I need that, I've got to get it now.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: 27, right, is a great age.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: 27 is like I started this recruitment business when I was 27 years old.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I ain't I didn't have a clue really why really what I wanted to do until I was 27.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: I fell into recruitment.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: 27 is a really great age.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then your 30s fly by.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm coming up to 40 at the end of it at the end of this year, and um but yeah, 27 financial planning, and then your 30s being a fully qualified, experienced financial planner.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's something to look forward to, and something you don't want to wish to come quickly because otherwise you're wishing your life away.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a good attitude, mate, you've got a good outlook on life.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wise head, wise head.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it goes back to surrounding yourself with those type of people.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's where I've I've got it from.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the the 40-year veterans that you know, that's where you get that from.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's not me coming, you know, never speaking to anyone and just saying, you know, I want to be a financial planner tomorrow.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: You've you've got to, as you say, you've got to have that realistic outlook.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: And to get that, you know, you've got to get humbled now and again, which is what those people love to do, and and that's how you get there.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's incredibly important to me that there I think with the financial planner life, and I'm building a community around it, I'm starting to build a community around it.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Benjamin Beck is somebody that's building a community around um financial advisor, mentor community about people who are pretty much coming into the profession or quite early on in the profession, and they're looking to kind of join a group and be mentored and help through that.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I believe there is a space for a select few really uh top-level financial planners to come into a community and be mentors, you know, um, within the financial planner life community.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I see that as being in now talking to you, it makes total sense to me that that should be an angle and an area that becomes part of the financial planner life community.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, brilliant.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing that, by the way.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, brilliant.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: You said you're one exam away from being a planner.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is that one exam away from chartered?
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: One exam away from fellowed.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: Are you really?
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so chartered in December last year.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, fair play to you.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you're chartered and you're one away from fellow and 23 years old.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's uh it's been a good run.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's very inspiring.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's a qualification that you might want to look at um that's just come out.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's created by a Michael Pashley, who is a trainer, a simply biz trainer, but he's set up his own qualification, he's got it all signed off and everything.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um equivalent of level six, and it's called the um practical investment planning qualification, and it sort of gives you all the practical skills of being a financial planner without actually having to sit down with live clients and do it.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: And everything is completely documented.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like a hundred, about a hundred hours worth of um of study, but it's all very practical.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: But when you you when you do it, you go through it.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's in like you get it in like uh an evidence folder, but it shows you everything you need to do basically.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a good qualification.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: I like to see that being rolled out a bit more with firms because I think it takes the pressure also off of companies that probably maybe can't afford or the time or has the energy or the structure to be able to give people that practical experience.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: But also, if someone's like level four qualified and they lack that practical experience and they're trying to get into the profession, then perhaps that's a qualification that can sit on the side and say, look, hey, Mr.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, hiring manager, I've also done this practical investment planning for qualification.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my evidence, been signed off, equivalent to level six.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, check it out, see what you think, speak to your guys internally as to whether or not they think it's a good qualification.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: Might do definitely.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's something to think about because if we you know you touched on the practical elements of it, one of my favorite uh qualifications that I've done was AF8, which is the uh financial advice coursework unit.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_02: Love doing that because it was very much the first time I'd been able to put like a little mini financial advisor cap on and pretend to be a financial planner to a dummy client.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: And and and that's something which is you know really beneficial in terms of knowledge.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: As you say, you don't have to sit down with a real client to do it, and that's the benefit.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a final question for you what motivates you the most to become a financial planner?
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's a good one to finish on.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me and the experiences that I've had, the client satisfaction of when we've submitted an advice report, whether you know, pension planning, inheritance tax planning, and we've got whether it's you know an elderly couple or you know, a full family, and seeing sort of the impact that that's had on not just their individual circumstances but their family wealth, for me, I've not really come across much better.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that is one of the favourite things that I've been able to do and sit in and watch Mike present to clients and say, you know, we've got rid of this liability, you know, we've helped out this area, we've done what your you know personal objectives were, and we're gonna review this year on year for you.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that for me has been, you know, a real, really enjoyable experience that I've had.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the reason why I think I want to really push on in a 10, 20, 30 career down this pathway is I don't think there's much better than than that that experience.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that feeling, that experience that you get when delivering a financial plan to somebody that gives them peace of mind.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, definitely.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: And just the just the gratification that they have that you know you've done that for them, and you know, that advice that you know we are specialists in terms of what we do.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, as you say, it's not something which is widely known at the moment in terms of the industry that we're in, and being able to help someone in that in that manner for me is definitely something which I gain a lot of pleasure out of.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: Joel, I'm really glad you didn't say the money.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because money isn't everything, and enjoying what you do for a living is, and having purpose in what you do and helping others should be your your driving motivational force, really.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: So super pleased you didn't say that.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think just by talking to you today, and I've talked to so many people in 13 years, and I'm being honest here, you come across amazing.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, it the the having the chart of qualification and still being, as you say, in the same role as when I started for me is just living proof that it's not all about that.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_02: The team that I'm working in is is absolutely amazing.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: The clients that we've got are brilliant, and that that is exactly why I'm still you know happy where I am.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: Joel mate, stay grounded.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's very important.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks very much for having me, Sam.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers, buddy.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: Take care.