Latest / The Joe Rogan Recap / Jesse Welles (2025) - Music and the Art of Authentic Expression

Transcript

Jesse Welles (2025) - Music and the Art of Authentic Expression · The Joe Rogan Recap

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Joe Rogan recap. Good to be here.
• 0:02
  Our mission today on the Deep Dive is to take a really
• 0:07
  compelling reason conversation Joe had.
• 0:10
  It was with the musician Jesse Wells.
• 0:12
  Right, Jesse Wells, a fascinating guy.
• 0:14
  Definitely we're going to pull out the most important insights,
• 0:17
  maybe some surprising facts and you know, the deeper issues that
• 0:20
  came. Up.
• 0:20
  And it's more than just a recap, isn't it?
• 0:22
  Exactly. This is a deep dive.
• 0:24
  We're looking at the sort of underlying systems, the human
• 0:26
  patterns it reveals. Stuff like how we deal with
• 0:29
  healthcare, the quiet ways power works.
• 0:33
  And even where art is heading, it's a great window, really.
• 0:35
  A window, yeah. You get to see how art like
• 0:38
  Wells is reflects what we're all anxious about.
• 0:41
  And how these like historical patterns just keep repeating.
• 0:44
  Struggle with big systems, power games, it's all there.
• 0:48
  It really makes you look past the, you know, the day-to-day
• 0:51
  headline. See the bigger picture.
• 0:52
  OK, so let's kick things off with Jesse Wells himself.
• 0:56
  His artistic approach is well, it's pretty unique.
• 0:59
  It really is. He doesn't just comment on
• 1:00
  things. No, he like absorbs the current
• 1:04
  events, the zeitgeist, right? These big cultural moments, he
• 1:07
  turns them into these super catchy songs, rhyming often.
• 1:12
  Rogan called them almost like punch lines.
• 1:15
  Yeah, because he boils down these huge, complicated issues
• 1:18
  into something instantly memorable.
• 1:20
  It's sharp. Super sharp and it feels so
• 1:23
  current, but you were saying it actually connects to a much
• 1:25
  older tradition. Absolutely.
• 1:27
  It's fascinating. He's really following in the
• 1:29
  footsteps of people like Woody Guthrie.
• 1:32
  Woody Guthrie? OK, yeah.
• 1:33
  Who famously wanted to quote sing the news.
• 1:36
  Just tell people what was happening directly.
• 1:39
  And Wells actually mentioned Guthrie.
• 1:41
  He did said he read Guthrie's biography during a tough time
• 1:44
  when his father was ill. It really resonated, that
• 1:47
  connection between art struggle and social commentary.
• 1:52
  Well that makes sense and he definitely sings the news now.
• 1:55
  That United Healthcare guy song is a perfect example.
• 1:57
  Oh yeah, powerful stuff. And the trigger for that song
• 2:01
  was pretty disturbing, wasn't it?
• 2:02
  People online celebrating someone's death.
• 2:04
  Yeah, Rogan was like, this is just bizarre and well, saw it as
• 2:08
  a sign that, you know, something is up, something fundamental,
• 2:11
  not even. Political, just human, like
• 2:13
  people felt pushed too far by a system.
• 2:15
  Exactly, And the song itself, it's just a straight up
• 2:18
  indictment of the for profit healthcare system.
• 2:21
  The. Lyrics are brutal.
• 2:22
  They really are. Ain't no you in United Health.
• 2:25
  That line, it's hard. And that statistic?
• 2:28
  Only 2% win a dispute. That's chilling.
• 2:31
  It is, and he calls it out directly.
• 2:33
  Richard T Burke don't give in a fuck.
• 2:35
  It's blunt. So the main criticisms are
• 2:38
  pretty clear then? Crystal clear.
• 2:39
  It's all about stockholder profit denying care. 0
• 2:43
  consequences for the companies. And now they're using AI to deny
• 2:47
  even more claims. Yep, driving those approval
• 2:49
  numbers even lower than industry standard.
• 2:52
  It makes you ask when does it cross the line from business
• 2:54
  into something predatory? Predatory, that's a strong word,
• 2:58
  but looking at those numbers, yeah, it feels apartment.
• 3:02
  So how does he actually write these things, these sharp punch
• 3:05
  lines? Well.
• 3:06
  He described it as basically a research project.
• 3:08
  He starts by writing like 2000 words just to get his head
• 3:12
  around the whole issue. 2000 words.
• 3:15
  Wow. Yeah, then he has to boil all
• 3:16
  that down, distill it to maybe 300 words for the final song.
• 3:21
  Rhyming, catchy, often sounds kind of jolly, which is part of
• 3:25
  the bunch. Like stand up comedy, he said,
• 3:28
  finding that one killer line. Exactly that perfect punchline
• 3:31
  that cuts right through. So what does this tell us then?
• 3:34
  The fact that millions of people watch that United Health song.
• 3:38
  Over 6.7 million views. I mean, it screams that there's
• 3:42
  a massive public hunger for this kind of direct, honest
• 3:45
  commentary, doesn't it? Especially on something like
• 3:47
  healthcare that affects everyone so deeply.
• 3:49
  People want the raw truth unviltered.
• 3:52
  Seems like it by passing the usual channels the curated news,
• 3:55
  they want something authentic. And that public reaction, that
• 3:58
  hunger, it led the conversation naturally into the bigger
• 4:00
  healthcare debate. It did.
• 4:02
  Joe Rogan brought up the counter argument about socialized
• 4:04
  medicine. Yeah, his point about human
• 4:06
  nature, he worried about losing that financial motivation.
• 4:09
  Right, the whole Lakers doctor driving a Mercedes argument.
• 4:12
  He said. You know, the reason that doctor
• 4:14
  makes big money is why he's maybe the best.
• 4:17
  Take away the money. You lose all the killers, as he
• 4:19
  put it. The top talent won't stick
• 4:22
  around. It's a common concern.
• 4:24
  It is, but then the conversation took a darker turn, connecting
• 4:28
  this to historical issues in healthcare.
• 4:30
  Yeah, it's chilling. When you look back, they brought
• 4:32
  up lobotomies. God, yeah, The story of Rosemary
• 4:35
  Kennedy. Just horrific.
• 4:36
  Lobotomized at 23 November 1941 and.
• 4:40
  The description of the tool like above her knife.
• 4:44
  Used by Watson Freeman. They just kept going until she
• 4:47
  became incoherent. And the reason?
• 4:50
  Yeah, because nuns thought she was wild, worried about STD's or
• 4:54
  pregnancy. It's unbelievable.
• 4:55
  Just brutal control masked as medical treatment changed her
• 4:59
  entire life permanently. Me.
• 5:01
  She shudder. And then they asked, OK, what's
• 5:03
  the modern equivalent of that kind of control?
• 5:05
  That invasive, life altering thing.
• 5:07
  And the conversation went straight to chemical lobotomies.
• 5:10
  Benzodiazepines, Benzos. Exactly.
• 5:13
  The worry is that these drugs, used widely, can kind of blunt
• 5:17
  people, trap them in dependency, much like the old physical
• 5:20
  lobotomies altered people fundamentally.
• 5:22
  And the dangers are serious. That slingshot effect they
• 5:25
  mentioned anxiety coming back even worse.
• 5:27
  That plus the risk of death during withdrawal, just like
• 5:30
  with alcohol and those awful gut issues.
• 5:33
  Benzo belly. Grim stuff.
• 5:36
  Really grim. Yeah.
• 5:37
  So if the mainstream pharmaceutical route has these
• 5:40
  massive downsides, what about alternatives?
• 5:43
  Well, they discussed some natural options, Psilocybin,
• 5:46
  magic mushrooms and particularly ibogaine.
• 5:49
  Ibogaine. I've heard about that, what did
• 5:51
  they say its effects were? Pretty remarkable.
• 5:53
  Apparently it can stop physical addiction cold.
• 5:55
  It helps rewire how the brain even sees addiction.
• 5:58
  Plus, it's not addictive itself. Wow, and it's like a life
• 6:01
  review. Yeah, a 24 hour experience
• 6:04
  described as a deep review of your life to understand your own
• 6:07
  patterns. Where is it legal?
• 6:08
  Mexico, Costa Rica and there are some religious exemption here in
• 6:12
  the US for certain churches. Even former Governor Rick Perry,
• 6:16
  a Republican, advocates for it. That's surprising.
• 6:19
  It really highlights the contrast with the, you know, the
• 6:22
  profit first model of many pharmaceuticals.
• 6:25
  Big time. It pushes you to think about
• 6:27
  systems designed for profit versus systems designed for
• 6:30
  actual healing. Which leads perfectly into the
• 6:32
  next big theme they explored. Yeah, rackets.
• 6:35
  Right, these systems that seems set up to benefit just a select
• 6:38
  few. They brought up that book War is
• 6:41
  a Racket by Smedley Butler. Yeah, a highly decorated Marine
• 6:45
  Corps Major General. Quite the source.
• 6:48
  And his summary of war was just devastating.
• 6:51
  The oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most
• 6:54
  vicious racket, plain and simple, benefiting the very few
• 6:59
  at the expense of the very many. And he didn't just theorize, he
• 7:02
  confessed his own. Role.
• 7:03
  Oh, absolutely chill and stuff. He called himself a gangster for
• 7:06
  capitalism. Said he helped secure oil in
• 7:08
  Mexico, banks in Haiti and Cuba. Raping Central American
• 7:12
  republics for Wall Street. His words.
• 7:14
  Even help Standard Oil in China. He laid it all out.
• 7:17
  And then there's that business plot in 1933.
• 7:19
  Yeah, this alleged plot by wealthy businessmen to actually
• 7:23
  overthrow FDR and install Butler the general as a dictator?
• 7:28
  Seriously. Seriously.
• 7:30
  Congress even looked into it, found that attempts were
• 7:32
  discussed and planned. But guess what?
• 7:34
  Nobody was prosecuted. Bingo. 0 accountability at the
• 7:38
  top. It's a pattern, isn't it?
• 7:39
  A really disturbing pattern. And it wasn't just financial
• 7:42
  rackets. They talked about outright
• 7:44
  brutality, sanctioned brutality. Like the scalp bounty programs
• 7:47
  in the Wild West. Just horrifying.
• 7:49
  The amount $8200 for an Apache scalp, more than a gold
• 7:53
  prospector could make. And it was government backed
• 7:56
  explicit support for extermination of tribes and mass
• 7:59
  murder men, women, children. They mentioned James Kirker
• 8:02
  killed over 300 people himself. And the impact?
• 8:05
  Wiping out nearly 90% of some tribal populations?
• 8:08
  Just staggering. Violence and the fact that the
• 8:10
  FBI seized an Apache scalp from an auction house in 2022.
• 8:15
  That history isn't even fully buried.
• 8:17
  Not at all. And this pattern, this
• 8:19
  manipulation and manufactured chaos, it connects right up to
• 8:22
  today, doesn't it? And so, well, think about bots
• 8:25
  and AI online, used by bad state actors, foreign countries,
• 8:30
  things up. Exactly.
• 8:31
  So instability destroy faith and democracy, which then leads to
• 8:35
  calls for more control, more management laws against dissent.
• 8:40
  It's a modern form of manipulation.
• 8:41
  Creating chaos to justify control.
• 8:45
  And that leads to some intense speculation about specific
• 8:48
  events. These are alleged false flags.
• 8:50
  Right, operations designed to look like someone else did them.
• 8:53
  They talked about the Las Vegas shooting.
• 8:55
  What were the theories there? All sorts a Saudi connection,
• 8:58
  maybe a push for casino body scanners because government
• 9:01
  people own stock and security companies.
• 9:02
  Multiple shooters, 400 lbs of gear, lots of unanswered
• 9:06
  questions for some people. Definitely.
• 9:08
  And then Oklahoma City. Right, the question of whether a
• 9:10
  simple fertilizer bomb could do that much damage.
• 9:13
  Plus reports of other bombs found by the FBI initially,
• 9:16
  though experts later denied it and the motive being tied to
• 9:19
  Ruby Ridge and Waco. Two really polarizing events
• 9:22
  involving government actions. It feeds the mistrust.
• 9:25
  And what makes it even more unsettling is this recurring
• 9:28
  theme of potential government infiltration or even entrapment.
• 9:32
  Like that Michigan governor kidnapping plot?
• 9:34
  Yeah, where most of the people involved were apparently
• 9:37
  government agents. 12 out of 14 according to the discussion.
• 9:41
  And trapping a 19 year old, giving him a fake bomb just to
• 9:44
  charge him with terrorism, it raises serious questions about
• 9:48
  who is creating the threat. Are they stopping crime or
• 9:51
  manufacturing it? It's a heavy question, and
• 9:54
  there's historical precedent for actual false flags being planned
• 9:58
  or used to start wars. Like Nero burning Rome, blaming
• 10:01
  the Christians. Or the Gulf of Tonkin incident,
• 10:03
  which escalated Vietnam and Operation Northwoods.
• 10:07
  That's terrifying. The plan to stage attacks on US
• 10:09
  soil and blame Cuba. Proposed by the giant chiefs.
• 10:12
  Thankfully, Kennedy vetoed it. But the fact they even conceived
• 10:16
  it, it's sobering. So wrapping this segment up,
• 10:19
  what's the take away about the information we get, the stories
• 10:23
  we see? It forces you to be critical,
• 10:25
  doesn't it? To think about how even
• 10:26
  entertainment like movies. They mentioned Tom Hanks films,
• 10:29
  Charlie Wilson's War, Saving Private Ryan.
• 10:32
  Yeah, how these narratives can subtly shape our understanding,
• 10:36
  our perceptions. Like WWI movies getting soldiers
• 10:40
  to shoot when they were initially hesitant.
• 10:42
  It's about looking for the intention behind this story,
• 10:44
  perhaps. Absolutely.
• 10:46
  Discernment is key. Which interestingly, brings us
• 10:49
  back around to the artist. Right, the dependent artist like
• 10:53
  Jesse Wells. In a world full of these
• 10:56
  potentially manipulated narratives, his success is kind
• 11:00
  of striking. Millions of views for songs like
• 11:02
  United Health. No traditional gatekeepers
• 11:05
  needed. Just an iPhone talent,
• 11:07
  creativity. It shows the power shift,
• 11:09
  doesn't it? It really does, and it shines A
• 11:11
  harsh light on the old music industry model.
• 11:13
  The labels as vampires. That was the term used, yeah.
• 11:16
  Offering a little for a lot. Owning your master recordings,
• 11:20
  taking tour money, giving endless notes.
• 11:22
  Killing artistic freedom. There was that quote.
• 11:24
  The music industry is a shallow money trench where good men die
• 11:27
  like dogs. Pretty.
• 11:29
  Bleak. And you contrast that with
• 11:31
  someone like Oliver Anthony. Huge success completely outside
• 11:35
  that System A. Total game changer.
• 11:37
  But now there's a new disruption looming.
• 11:39
  AI, artificial intelligence in music, Yeah.
• 11:42
  And it's moving incredibly fast. They talked about AI creating a
• 11:46
  totally plausible hit level pop song in seconds.
• 11:51
  Seconds. That's hard to wrap your head.
• 11:53
  Around it is and the core insight that came out was look,
• 11:56
  everything that can be replaced will be replaced.
• 11:58
  So if music is just formula. It's vulnerable, as someone
• 12:01
  said, pop music was already AI in many ways.
• 12:04
  But what can't AI replace? What's left?
• 12:06
  Human experience real emotion the the soul that comes from
• 12:11
  living an authentically difficult life.
• 12:14
  AI can mimic, but it can originate that.
• 12:17
  So the path forward for humans, for artists, is authenticity.
• 12:22
  That seemed to be the message. If you can be 100% yourself all
• 12:25
  the way to the end of the line, then that's your success.
• 12:27
  Don't make the devil's bargain. Don't sell out.
• 12:29
  They mentioned Robert Johnson, Hendrix, Van Halen, that idea of
• 12:32
  chasing profit leading to bad art.
• 12:34
  Right, because when you compromise that core
• 12:36
  authenticity, you lose the magic.
• 12:38
  Music isn't just notes and beats, it's emotion.
• 12:41
  A drug. A mood capsule, they called it.
• 12:43
  Yeah, think about how a song like Free Bird or Yesterday or
• 12:46
  even Captain Jack can just hit you, change your whole state.
• 12:50
  That's the human connection. Something AI can't fake.
• 12:53
  And Wells going on tour, releasing a new album.
• 12:56
  He's living that authentic path. Exactly continuing to create
• 13:00
  from that real place despite everything changing around him.
• 13:03
  So this whole deep dive, it really traced this line, didn't
• 13:06
  it? This tension between our messy
• 13:08
  human nature, these big controlling systems.
• 13:10
  Whether it's healthcare, the military industrial complex,
• 13:13
  media narratives. And then the power of just pure
• 13:17
  authentic expression to cut through all that noise.
• 13:19
  It leaves you with a question, doesn't it?
• 13:21
  For you listening in this world of potential manipulation of
• 13:25
  systems built for profit, not people, what's your unique art?
• 13:29
  Art in the broadest sense, maybe.
• 13:31
  What are you creating, or even just consuming that feels truly
• 13:35
  real outside the racket? Something that speaks truth,
• 13:39
  regardless of whether it's popular or profitable.
• 13:41
  It really highlights the value of critical thinking, of
• 13:44
  supporting genuine authenticity wherever you find it.
• 13:46
  How do you define your own reality amidst it all?