Latest / Pastor Plek's Podcast / Sworn to Serve, Called to Shepherd

Transcript

Sworn to Serve, Called to Shepherd · Pastor Plek's Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Pastor Flex Podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Pastor Plex, and joining me today is none other than Pastor Grayson DeZalo, uh formerly of the police department, but now a full-time executive pastor.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about today the calling uh that he is now in.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, Grayson, welcome to the show.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Chris.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is awesome.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so I want to I want to get into it.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you even come to the place where you thought going to the police would be a thing?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then how did it come out to now you're back?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a long story.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's start at the beginning.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: But at the beginning, I think so.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've been I've been at the church for like 15, 16 years, and uh kind of almost from the beginning.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been a pastor here for a while.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, around like 2018-19 kind of time frame, felt like uh we went, if you remember, we went to a prayer gathering.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we always call it the ping pong pastor retreat.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Ping pong pastor retreat.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: This was heavy prayer.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of different denominations, a lot of other things going on there.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but we were praying, and uh, I remember we'd pray, we'd worship, we'd pray, we'd worship.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: And towards the end of that, we prayed for law enforcer.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: You remember this?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we prayed for law enforcer.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: I actually don't remember what chiefs were there, but there's I think it was like Rick Randall from the Cedar Park, I think he was a chaplain for Cedar Park or maybe Austin or something.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, somebody somebody was there.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're praying for uh APD and other other places, and and uh and then they they actually talked about what they they're needing in law enforcement.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and after what while we were praying, I I felt called to law enforcement.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't really happen that much in my life.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I felt like there was like this tugging, like like like God was telling me that I should be in law enforcement.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um I remember right afterwards, I I went outside and I called my wife Megan.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I said, I said, hey, like um, I know this is this doesn't happen too often, but I think I'm supposed to be in law enforcement.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And this is like, you know, we had like I think two kids at the time.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think she was pregnant with our third child, and and so uh and I'm a pastor.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I met Megan when we were six when she was 16, you know, we got married young at 19, 22, and and like like she's always known me as like her pastor husband, right?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's my calling, that's where I'm supposed to be, that's what's gonna happen for the next 50 years, whatever.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was a little bit shocking for her.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so what we did, we kind of committed to pray.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was kind of like, hey, I have this thing.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like I kind of do this all the time.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And initially you were thinking Austin Police Department.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Initially, it's it's and it's not even like in calling, like where I kind of bounced all over the place.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes people are like, well, God called me to grab this jug of milk and God called me to, you know, make cereal this morning or something.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like that.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was very much like uh probably there's like eight or nine times I can count that I really feel has God's called me to something in my life.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was one of these moments, right?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, so I remember we Did you have something like that when you married Megan?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is the one I'm supposed to marry.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was like when I married Megan, uh, when I moved to Texas from Michigan, uh calling to have children, um, to be a pastor here at Wells Branch Community Church initially, you know, now now breakaway, but um, so a lot of a lot of different big moments, right?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Key moments of my life um that I kind of felt this way or went through this process.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, so anyways, we decided to um pray separately.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: So she we kind of took three months, and I was like, hey, you pray and ask God what what what you're thinking, and and and I'll pray and and ask God about this whole thing and kind of seek him.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then my thought was I don't want to manipulate her in her praying.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: So just you have a relationship with Christ, I have a relationship with Christ.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if this is meant to be, then we'll be unified on on where we land.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got impatient.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and you know, I I kind of stopped my praying early, like only like a month into it, and I applied for uh APD.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I I remember um they accepted my application, which I freaked out about because we were I was committed to pray yeah for three months, and I and I kind of stopped that whole deal early, and then I had to confess to Megan.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, hey, I've already applied, and I'm at this point where I have to give them a response, right?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and we weren't together, like she was she just was not feeling the same thing.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, talk about that.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so initially you're like, I feel called to this, and she was not on board.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she she was, I think Megan was is has always been in our marriage on board with wherever God is leading me, right?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've always felt supported, always felt like that was that that's a thing in our marriage and and in our lives, and it's never felt anything otherwise.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: This was probably the one thing where it was like, I'm not hearing the same thing you're hearing.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so that really gave you pause.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so pause because like I believe in my marriage, my wife is my my partner, right?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: God's put her in my life, and and she has.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: She's she's made me a better, better man, better person, and vice versa, right?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And she's kind of helps me understand certain things.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes there's uh, you know, if it wasn't for Megan, I'd be, I'd have probably have a massive boat somewhere, be boating every weekend and probably be crazy in debt, okay?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So so Megan can pump the brakes on things in my life.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's a good thing, okay?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so so she we we weren't landing together, even though I was like, man, this is what I feel.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, her not being there, uh, or her not hearing the same thing, or the Holy Spirit not unifying our hearts on this effort was was very much for me.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, maybe I need to take a minute.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm like, I'm like, maybe I'm hearing incorrectly.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so while I did that, there was there were other people in my life.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: So so pause on that for a second.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: There was other people in my life during that period of time that I was also seeking out advice from.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, like people that were elders at the church.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I talked to Joe Davis, uh, who is a previous elder chairman at the church.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I remember I was going to him and I was like, hey, this is what's going on in my heart and my life.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can you essentially can you tell me this is stupid?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what I'm kind of looking for.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Someone tell me that this isn't a good idea.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember uh Joe telling me, he's like, Well, if you're asking, if if what you're looking for is someone to kind of you know tell you tell you to stop, he's like, he's like, You're not gonna get that from me.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um he's like, I think you'd be great at that.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And to tell you the truth, my one regret in my life is not going into law enforcement when I was in my early 20s.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I went a different direction, and I've always wanted, I always wished I would have done that.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I'm like, well, wow, okay.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I talked to just a bunch of people, right?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I went to God's people and I was like, hey, is there any issues with this and all that kind of stuff?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they all affirmed it, right?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but when when I went to Megan, it was very much like, hey, what she was pregnant with our third child, and like uh it was just not a season of life that made really any sense whatsoever.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you remember it's 2019, 2020 kind of like you have COVID come in, and then you have the state of the the world and all this kind of stuff.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: It got crazy quick.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was wild.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I I decided I was like, hey, I'll withdraw from the process from IPD, and then I'll um uh I'm I'm good.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not upset with my job at the church.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love uh everything that's going on.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not like discontent with anything.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm good.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's fine.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like I this has to happen.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: But then all of a sudden, a couple years later, yeah.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: So so we we landed there, I kept, I kept working at the church.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then a couple years later, that's when we kind of entered into COVID.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got through that kind of and uh and then like the state of the world got worse.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And when it comes even specifically with law enforcement, yeah, yeah.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was like that was not a good time to be a police officer.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'm kind of looking at that, and you're like, man, I you start to wonder and think about what would it look like for a pastor to be involved in those situations, and and you know, taking the experience that you have as like uh with people and and pastoring, and what does it look like to be plopped in the middle of a domestic disturbance and having to handle that situation?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Were you thinking domestic disturbance or were not domestic disturbance, more of like what would happen if a husband punches wife and I'm right?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: But you were thinking that level of granularity as far as your role as a police officer.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or were Yeah.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was something where like you look at all the situations, you see all the videos, you see, you know, everything that's that's that's out there, right, for us to see, which half the time isn't uh is an old story and not super sure.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: But um you see all that and you're like, huh, I wonder what it what difference it would make.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um if not to say that that any other police officer doesn't have these skills or anything, but uh, I was I was at the time, I think what, 10 years, eight years or something like that.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've been the pastor for for a minute and uh I kind of grew up in this.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, But wasn't there anything like I'm watching the way that like police officers being mistreated or like not being like kind of like a whole cultural you know, anti-police movement had sort of fallen, like defund the police.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And there wasn't any, was there any part of you're like, I would be stepping into that?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's one of the reasons why there was like this like yeah, not with Megan and just whatever.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't it make sense?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, you're you're you're you're changing your career.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's not like when I was a kid, I always dreamed of being a police officer.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I love you know, die hard, lethal weapon.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like those are my movies for sure.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Speed, like all that kinds of like like that.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is that those movies I like to watch, and I'm sure that had something to do with it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, but at the end of the day, it very much was like, hey, this just didn't make sense.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: When I looked at that, I'm like, why am I why would why am I doing this?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is not uh the pendulum has swung so far where it's like they're now defunding police.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Why would I go into a career where that something like that could happen?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um but if if you feel called to something, if God's calling you to something, it's it's uh it's the best place to be despite the circumstances or situation that kind of surrounds it.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so anyways, the state of the world, all that kind of stuff.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was at the time um kind of watching all of that.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: I remember going to to lunch, I think it was lunch or something with my brother.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like just a quick history of my family.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've kind of always been, uh at least in my family, maybe that's like people come to, like whether when there's a struggle or an issue, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and like provide that pastoral counsel, or uh, or maybe even my family would say, you know, Grayson maybe judged me at times.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's not that's true.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was pretty arrogant growing up.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, but I've always been on that side of things.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this was one of the first times for me, uh, where my brother sits me down and he asks me about the police, and he's like, Hey, what do you mean thinking about like law enforcement?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I know you were doing thinking about that.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Oh yeah, that's never gonna happen.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's not, he's like, Are you still thinking about it?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Well, yeah, I think about it all the time.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but not like out of like a regret.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it is what it is.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's okay.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not law enforcement's not my identity.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Even being a pastor is not my identity, right?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's my identity is rooted in Christ and not my position or title or anything like that.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it and I'm like, he's like, well, if you're thinking about it, you should you should talk to her about it again.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I was like, okay, that's not bad advice.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh might as well talk to her about it.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's been a it's been a couple years.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the issue was Megan was pregnant now with our fourth kid when I decided to talk to her about it.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember we were in our neighborhood walking around, our kids were swimming in the pool and we were walking around and we were talking, and I brought it up, and um, she was kind of shocked that I was still thinking about it.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not like we we talked about it for two years.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I put it to put it aside and moved forward.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, moved forward with this.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: I guess this isn't happening, it's okay.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, move forward with where I am and be content with that.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we we never really broached the topic ever again.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I brought it up and she was kind of shocked that I was still thinking about it.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was still something that was on my heart.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And essentially in that conversation, uh, we were like, I don't know why we always talk about this when when she's pregnant, but uh but we she landed on the podcast like, I don't want to stand in the way of you pursuing God's calling in your life.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I want to encourage you that and and support you in that and um do whatever you think is best for our family and for you, and and we'll be with you.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so that to me was kind of like a okay, that's a green light for me to at least pursue it, like at least see what's out there.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so um in all that time between 20 2020 and and around there, we moved to to to Round Rock.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so um when I first applied to APD, I lived in Austin.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I was kind of real passionate about serving uh where I live.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to serve that community, serve that city.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I actually I do think like there's like this favor of like, man, uh at the time there was a lot of defunding and things in APD, and and it's a different if it's it's a different animal in Austin, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh different county, all that kind of stuff.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I wound up moving to Round Rock and in my cul-de-sac, there was a uh a police officer there with a with a car parked up.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Next door to one.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he was in my call.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: We were neighbors essentially.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'd see it all the time, and I'm like, man, this is like a sign I'm supposed to supposed to be there.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh wound up doing some some ride-outs and checked out a bunch of different um uh departments in the area.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh Round Rock was the the one department that I felt was right.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's where I felt God leading me to.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like there was no it there was like no other one was close for me personally.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone has different things that they're looking for, but for me it was very much uh Round Rock Police Department.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it's the only place I applied to, it's the only place that I felt called to very strongly.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Not even, I mean, law enforcement, sure, but then it then it turned into that that department.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's the only place I wanted to be.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm like, if if this is where God wants me to be, this is where I'm gonna be.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and getting into law enforcement can be pretty competitive.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like there's like physical tests, and there's there's a whole studying, like, like uh uh studying for like a T-Cole license, and and it's there's more like like educational things that I know.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: More so that you think fully understand.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was gonna be like boot camp or something, we're gonna do a lot of physical activity.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: But there was a lot of learning, you're learning Pinot Code and CCP and all this kind of stuff.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, so anyways, I we we get there, I I get I get uh the application going, feel called to it, um, start applying, and it and it's kind of happening.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything's happening fairly easily for me.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I remember the first thing I did was go to I went to a written test, and the chief comes in, and uh I was in uh this gym with like I don't know, a couple hundred other people or something.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh whenever when he walks in, all the other officers that were there, they kind of light up and they smile.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh, that's kind of interesting.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really like why are they like why are they all smiling?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I look back and it's the chief and and uh he comes down and he and he like hugs everybody.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not like he just walk doesn't walk past people.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: He like actually like embraces them, hugs them, yeah, and he just goes down the line and it's like all of them almost it looks like they all have like this relationship with the chief with the chief of police.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, that's weird.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't think of that when I think of Zootopia and like the chief of police in that one.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was interesting for me because I'm looking at it, I'm like, that doesn't, that's not what I thought.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm coming from a church, so that's that's like community and family and and all that kind of stuff is what what we do here and what we believe in, and and seeing that in in that organization was really uh eye-opening for me and it kind of further affirmed like this is this is the place for me.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember he got up there and he said uh he asked for all like military, um, like past military to stand up and and like a bunch of people stood up, and then we all clapped and and he's like um he's like these are the people that that's what like service looks looks uh looks like and and all that kind of stuff.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and he's kind of praising them uh for their their uh past service, right?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then they all sit down and there was like well over probably like 25 or so or 30, and he goes, We have 18 spots, and I'm like, Oh, I'm not getting a job.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, there's 30, you know, past military, and I'm like, I'm like uh veterans.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm like, I I I don't fit that mold.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess I'm not what they're looking for, right?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so the whole time uh I'm I'm a little bit um nervous, uh, mainly because I'm like whiter than white, like as far as like my history.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I have I'm like clean sheet, uh, you know, uh I never even seen marijuana.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, it's like I'm I'm putting on my personal history statement, like what's the worst thing you've ever done?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, this isn't this is like this looks silly.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Who's who who have you who's all your relationships?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I I I've married, I've been the past 16 years the same person, like this is one relationship.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I'm just looking at it, I'm like, they're not gonna I have like no experience in like life.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess you know, I guess that's that's not gonna work out.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So all of it goes smoothly.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: I wound up getting involved, uh as as far as like the the boards and the the written test and everything else, and it it I wound up getting hired.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it was a it was an interesting time, it was an exciting time.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was a what was the hardest thing about uh the the academy, the police academy?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know it essentially it was it was le it was taking a step back from the church um and then financially adjusting our lives as we're about which is like a leap of faith, as we're about to have a baby, and so we had a baby like a week before the academy.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And like a capital campaign, I think was going on.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then and we're committing to the capital campaign, which is you know more than we've given, right?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and so it's like all these things were all happening at once.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, hey, like what we committed, we didn't have.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: So where you're thinking financially, how's this gonna work?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in the academy.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: What happens if I don't make it?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you just get fired, you get let go.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's over.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's over.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: You could just fail a couple tests, you get let go.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: You could be uh you could be physically fit and then fail a couple tests and then you're just kind of done.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: So wow, um, it was like high, high risk in in this season.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so that with having a new baby and then the the walking into it, not uh not fully understanding that it's essentially college.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a full year of college and six months.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you're compressing everything, you're studying every night.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was just it was just a it was a different dynamic.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was like you're back in school or college or something, and but you're dropped back into it, and you're in the you're still doing COVID stuff.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you're still I mean, I remember we would have to test every single morning and and then you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: So they like jammed the thing up your nose every morning.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was when we came in, we would we would do the COVID test, and then um, and if you had COVID, you'd get you you would you would just be sent home and you'd you'd participate virtually.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, and then you come back and you have to make up any tests the day you came back and all that kind of stuff.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, but yeah, it it was it was good.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: That was the hardest part, is all those things combined.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like if I if I was in a different season of life, if I wasn't in my mid-30s with a new baby and uh four kids, you know, I think it probably would have been different.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I was, and that was my situation.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think just everything um kind of happening all at once was the biggest dynamic there.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: So when you became a police officer, like what was the like most memorable event as a police officer?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you think of police, there's I don't know, arresting people, chasing people, uh you know, shootouts.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: What what was the thing that for you was like the I don't know, core memory, if you will, of your police time?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh patrol was I didn't I didn't spend all my time uh at the police department on patrol.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I wound up uh eventually um moving into a different um division, police department, but the the few years I spent on patrol were really memorable.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um what makes them so memorable?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're that's like when you think of police officer, patrol is what a police officer is.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: It is like the foundation of of your department.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's what it's the forward-facing division that everybody sees.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's the it's the people that are actually actively trying to keep people safe when you're sleeping, you know, that there's officers patrolling your area, that if you call, they're gonna be there within a minute.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is the group of people.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that happens.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like all over the greater Austin area, there are police officers that are literally out there patrolling every night.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's 24-7.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's never not anyone out there.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's shift, there's minimum staffing, all this kind of stuff.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh it is a constant uh machine that is constantly going.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And uh rain or shine, doesn't matter really what's going on in your life, like there, there's a um there's a a commitment that you make and and and we are we are moving forward to trying to uh make the community a safe place for everybody to be involved in.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but yeah, I would say in general, there are relationships that I that I built in the academy, like people that I met, um, like Robert and people that uh like I actually got to be on patrol with for like a year.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: That right those those memories are awesome.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like being able to.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's can you give me one specific one that really sticks out?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would say for for me, the most impactful the to ask your question, the most impactful memory that I have in while I was on patrol is um I was coming in, it's probably anticlimactic, you know.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's not probably uh Well, it's the first one that comes to your mind.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: But the the one that makes the most impact to me, and I feel like I was probably a little bit different, is uh um I was driving in, just got on shift, I was coming into the city, and a a call drops um uh on the street that I was that was I was headed towards, and it was I was like 30 seconds from it.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, I guess that's the one I'm taking.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm right here.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it was like a super.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you have a choice to pick up a call or not pick up, I'm so there's like calls and holdings, so calls that aren't emergencies that people call in.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's like a burglary from like the previous night and someone broke in my car.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's not an emergency, right?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's it's it's terrible.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but there might be other things that take priority that we need to get to, yeah.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then we'll we'll get we'll come out as soon as we can, take a report and do an investigation.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, but um, this was an emergency, it was a suicide threat.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: So this was some something where uh a gal had a had a knife knife to her throat to kill herself, and her um her parents called, right?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh I'm like typically a bunch of people are coming to that, um, but when you're right next to something, uh it's kind of like I'm here, and it's gonna be several minutes before anyone else gets to me, because it's also at the end of our city, right?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh so I I put myself on it, I get there in 30 seconds, and um fortunately when I got there, um, which was only like like maybe a minute after the call dropped, if if that.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I get there and I and I kind of walk up and I see the the high school girl.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: She's just sitting on the her front steps crying, and there's nothing in her hands or anything.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and I I asked her to come over and talk to me to the street, and and she sat down and she was sharing with me everything that was going on in her life.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all the situations that she was struggling with, and um just the just the burdens that she was carrying, all this kind of stuff.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then I see her parents come out the front door concerned, and they're sitting on the porch kind of watching this happen.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Were they the ones that called 911?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I believe so.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: I believe so.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was a while ago, but I I think so.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was I was asking her, you I asked people all these types of questions when you're trying to figure out, hey, what's the like is this for real?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did you did you really want to hurt yourself or harm anybody else?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: You just try to figure this out, right?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, but the reason why I was impactful is because I was able to to pastor her.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was able able to figure out what was going on in her life.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to talk to those things.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I was able to have a conversation so much so that like some other officers came up and I asked them to go away.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was like, hey, you're we don't need anybody else here.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're good.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: But there's no there's no active threat.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're just having a conversation at this point.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh there was an another officer that just stayed and and um just in case all that kind of stuff.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh I was able to talk with her and counsel her.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um I remember her parents were extremely like grateful.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so much so that they they they want like they uh we even like I even like followed back up the next morning.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I was working night shift.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So this happened at 6 p.m.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so they were worried about her her her attending school the next day.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but felt like I was able to really get through to her.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so the next morning I even called at the end of my shift and I said, Hey, how's it going?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything is everything okay?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you need anything?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it wasn't like a call and holding.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I just decided I wanted to do that because of the relationship.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: The relationship and the you know, when you're involved in people's lives in the worst moments of their lives, there's like this bonding thing.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: You have you have genuine care um for their future and you you want them to uh be okay, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: You might not always be able to provide that or make make that happen, but that's I think that's that's humanity and and your desire when you connect with someone in that way.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, especially if someone might have might have been suicidal or thinking about taking their own life.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh for me, it was just like one of those things that always kind of sticks with me.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Every suicide threat call always sticks with me because there are so many.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um being able to talk to people at the lowest points of their lives where they're they're considering taking their life, uh, and either um helping them process through that, getting them the help they need, um, whatever it may be, finding a resolution to those problems uh really, really mattered to me.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all the other stuff was fun.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we drove fast and you know, ran code, lights and sirens, and you know, there were shootings and just different things.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: The clearing houses, like I loved, loved all that.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: But like when it when push comes to shove, the reason why I got into law enforcement wasn't for any of that.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was for the ability to impact um people's lives in the worst moments of their lives, um, and and to see what God could do um through me in those moments.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so just first on the suicide, like how many like when I think suicides, I think though that happens very rarely, but are you you're saying it happened a lot, like once a shift, once a month, once a two month?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what would you think?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean all the time, especially like night shift.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like a couple times a month, maybe?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Week?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, a couple times a week.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that's just my shift.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: So if I work a night shift, that's only 12 hours.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um I guarantee you there's other suicide threats throughout the throughout the rest of the day.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you get like two or three a week.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Probably more than that.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean that just shows the brokenness of like the human.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a there's a lot of brokenness and and and mental health issues, and um you you you pair all that stuff with with uh potential drug abuse or alcoholism and and coping mechanisms that that aren't what what we believe in, right?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and and then it just it's an equation for like disaster.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then next thing you know, you know, you're thinking about taking your own life or whatever it may whatever it may be.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so we there was you as a pastor could hand I mean, I'm not that you could handle it like an others can't, but like you're specifically trained.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how how would other police officers in general like handle that?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: I that was a question that like um I've struggled with.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I didn't I didn't really fully understand how you how you do policing without having some form of filter to see the world through.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have the Bible in my understanding of who Jesus is and the gospel and the fallen and brokenness of man and all this kind of stuff.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and I understand why someone who doesn't know Christ would do what they just did.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you need Jesus, right?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if you don't have that, all that you're seeing is just a broken world being broken for the most part.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you're seeing and a lot of times your personal investment in the law enforcement world doesn't isn't it you don't get to see a lasting impact.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you get to see the person that you helped 20 years from now, and maybe that moment changed their life forever.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: You have no idea, really.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then a lot of times, if you make an arrest, a lot of times they're out the next morning.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's like you're like, wow, I just did did all this, and then they're they're not they're the concepts have like a redemptive purpose in just the assignment you're given in this time period to to really.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like all I can yeah, it's like all I could do is is what I can do, and this is what I'm doing, if that makes sense.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I you can't you can't get you can go down the rabbit trail of like what happened after an arrest, and it's probably you probably don't love going down that rabbit trail because there's a lot of pieces there that you either agree or don't agree with, right?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you you it winds up becoming you you can you only can do what you can do, right?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to trust uh the system or process and um and ultimately for me, I had to trust that that God's gonna use this moment in somebody's life and the Holy Spirit was gonna reveal himself through this effort, whether it be a rest or a conversation or a ticket or whatever it may be, like whatever's going on.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like I prayed that that God uses this in somebody's life so that they can move forward and come to know him.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's my ultimate, that was my ultimate thing.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it and and that can happen through there were so many people that I wound up taking to jail that actually thanked me um for how I treated them.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, or were in tears or talking about church or whatever it may be.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, there's just a lot of different opportunities that kind of arise because of the situations that people are in.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: In the in the pastor world, right?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: We something something happens, and then three days later they come to the church and say, This happened, right?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: In the police world, it happens and then you show up.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you're in the middle of that chaos, right?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in the pastor world, you you get that after the fact.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're you're counseling, you're navigating through things that is, you know, you they people only share what they share, and and it's after everything's kind of calmed down or after something's happened that that that's taken place.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a different uh perspective.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but navigating those conversations and engaging with people and domestic disturbances and uh marital issues and all this kind of stuff, it it was it was all the time.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was um it was it was I don't I don't want to use the word fun, yeah.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was it was a blessing and I enjoyed navigating purpose, yeah, purposeful.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was like you you navigate those situations and then what you say matters, how you engage matters, how you treat people matters, and uh I found a lot of success while I was on patrol in in in in the way that I engage with people.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: So um you're you're you're you're policing, you're you're patrolling.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: What was like the hard aspect of that?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: If there was a hard, if there was a hard, like something that really just wear war on the soul.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the the hardest aspect are the are the things that like like you can't control.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or if if if you tried to help someone, they refused your help, and then something bad happens.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um like what would be an example of that?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like someone says, I don't want your help, and they go Yeah, like it this this never happened, but like maybe like a suicide threat.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: You go and you talk to them and and then or they wind up taking their life, or you're trying to get in touch with them, or whatever.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or there's a jumper uh on an overpass and you're having a conversation and they wind, they don't, they don't, you know, you you wind up like not getting through that person and then they take their own life, that kind of stuff.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Or um, you know, or there's people that you just can't get through to, like no amount of talking or reasoning or de-escalation is gonna work.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and it's it's time to to take a different route.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, those are hard because you're like, man, this isn't always necessary, but sometimes it is, right?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And when it is, you're like, this can't be avoided, right?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's certain things and um a lot of policing is reactive.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're a step behind.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're what the other person is doing, um, you're reacting to it, right?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Everything.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's yeah, I always hear like that, you know, police officers that they have the a hard, like it takes a toll on their family, it takes a toll on their like mental health, all that.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what what what would that what's the reason for that?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a lot of stress involved with that?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Probably in those those tough times, or is a lot of stuff that you see in the brokenness of the world, or what would be the thing that like, man, that's gonna that's gonna wear on someone's mental health?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure it's different for everybody, right?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's I think it's very different for me, uh, only because I have the the filter uh uh of of what I live on the world.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: I have a I have a community that I talk to.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: I uh you you and I talk all often, yeah, right.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you don't have a support system, a community, if you don't have people that you're processing grief through or processing situations with, then all of it becomes harder because you're just kind of storing it up and you're processing yourself or not dealing with it or uh drinking it away or whatever it may be, um, you're really not working through any of the things that you see.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you see a lot.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I wasn't even on patrol, I was only two and a half, maybe three years.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you see a lot.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: You see death, you see um car accidents, you see just a lot of different things.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's a lot to process if you can't.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: The car accident stuff, when you see that, is that do you reflect back on that?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you ever like have those images pop in your head?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like what how's that?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, it for me, uh fortunately, you know, they they you talk about like PTSD or critical incident stress or uh whatever that whatever that may be.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And people in law enforcement see that kind of stuff all the time.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: I forget what the stat is, but it's like you might have four critical incidents in your own, in your in like your whole life or something, and then a law enforcement officer has like thousands or something.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so um in just like a week, you know, or something.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I just don't think I mean when I thought I mean how many at car accidents a day I mean or a week or whatever that were you trying to process through.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean there's a difference between like a car accident and then like a fatality.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh or like a vehicle versus pedestrian or or something like that.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Car accidents all the time.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's tons of car accidents, right?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you're on here's the thing.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just take a normal car accident.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say it happened on 35.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: The cars on the left side of the highway.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: So the number one lane and it's fast, fast travel, right?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're both stuck there because they can't get across the highway.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're responding to it.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: All that you have is a car with some lights, right?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's not special.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's just a car, right?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone can go buy and explore.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you gotta explore with your lights, your flashy lights on, and you're getting out of the car, and then you put on your really protective yellow vest.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so and you're on the highway with you're on the high with people going by, going by, and you got this barrier on your left side, you got the cars going on on your right side, people are upset because of they got to get to work or whatever.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and then you're dealing with this normal accident, which isn't that bad, but they both need to get towed, right?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you're trying to have can control the chaos, right?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, deal with these two people that are upset with each other, right?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's everyone else's fault, right?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then as you're doing that, another accident happens because you got looky lose on the other side of the highway.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then they crash into each other, and now you got other people responding to that, and and this is just on 35, and and you're having to figure it out.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Even just a normal accident on 35 is stressful because while you're doing that, there's hundreds of cars driving by you.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know if they mean you harm, you don't know if they like law enforcement, you don't know if they uh, you know, are are paying attention.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Has anyone ever gotten hurt just off?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know if they're intoxicated.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it happens all the time.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: People, there's just an accident on 35, people aren't paying attention, it's typically drunk drivers or something, and they just plow into the back of a vehicle, and you thank God that you weren't in the vehicle or that you weren't by it and that no one got hurt.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: But um this stuff happens all the time, unfortunately, it claims a lot of um lives.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: It police officers as well, right?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Police officer lives, but even just civilian lives, like people trying to be good people helping people out, and then and then something else happens and it creates this fatality situation.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um, even just a normal accident isn't it's not just normal, like it's it's there's a really real threat to you being on 35 uh and people being on 35 and and hundreds of people driving by and hoping that everyone's paying attention, right?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so um that's just a normal thing.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then you you know you add in like a fatality accident, or you add in uh like something much larger.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I had there was Let's see if there's there was there was one uh where it was a pedestrian, um, probably this is kind of the biggest one that has that sat with me, is is uh these two gals, young teenagers, walk to a corner store in the middle of the night and just like from their apartment to the corner store and to get some pizza and stuff, and they were walking back and and it was there's no cars except one, and and they wind up getting hit by a car.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I was the first person there, um, and I stopped out with one of the one of the females that was on the southbound side of the road, and her leg was broken, and I was talking to her, and she was asking where her sister was.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: At the time, I don't know, she had a sister, I just saw her, and I stopped out with her, yeah, another officer.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she was on the on the northbound side of the road, right?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so she was thrown.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there was one sister on the south side of the road to go southbound lane, and then one all the way on the other side on the road on the other side of the road.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so it, you know, the these situations, it's like so first it could be thrown like 30, 40 feet.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, vehicles are are heavy uh and they go fast, and uh we're we don't our bodies don't respond well to getting hit by a vehicle, right?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but it was it was sad, right?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because her sister didn't make it.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh and and you're just trying to to navigate the situation and you're trying to help as much as possible.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have to talk to the parents or anything?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, uh another officer had to had to the mom uh the the the mom of the girl showed up and had to control the situation.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: But so the mom's there like, hey ma'am, you need to kind of stay back kind of thing.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but naturally she's she's struggling, right?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: And hysterical and wants to see her girls, and and so it was just it was just a it was a hard situation all the way around.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you have an accident that turned to fatality, and then you're trying to find the guy that caused the accident because he left his car and he left on foot.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Just a bunch of different things, right?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you're uh you're navigating those processes, you're you're trying to help people, but um the the the biggest thing for me is I never struggled too much with like like overthinking any of those things.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's because I had a good support system who I was processing through, but I also understood that um in situations I I can just do the best that I can and and be the best thing I can be for whatever the situation is.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I can't be all things to all people, um, but I can be what I need to be right now.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was okay with that.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I didn't I didn't I don't I I know I've never been in my life where I carry the burden of something else.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I can't I can't do that.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's outside of what I what I can I can't bring that person back, uh, but I can help you.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or I can't it's it's just and you kind of move forward with it.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um who knows?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've heard that you know things can come up later on in life, uh, but that's never happened.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, um fortunately it it was it it was all okay is the wrong word, but like I was able to process through it.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um then there's a lot of things that are set up in in the law enforcement world, like peer support and and other things too.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: So there's I I I was assuming a lot more now than there were maybe like 40 years ago, um, where it was kind of probably just like, hey, shut up and figure it out.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are those tears like what are you what are you doing?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, silent suffering, please.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but now it's talked about a lot.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was talked about when when we went through the academy, mental health is a really big deal, um, and making sure that you're um doing all right when you kind of face all these types of situations.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so how many years did you spend in the like when did you go to the police department?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was like maybe 2022?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: 2021, something like that?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so January, I think January 2022.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so then you you go there and then uh and so your last day was what like a month ago.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so a month ago.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: So like the end of July.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: So really like four years and change of of being in in the police department.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what was the how did you know that your time was done?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: How'd you know that that was like the assignment was finished or like you're ready to kind of move back to being a full-time pastor?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: So uh uh like about two and a half, like three years or so, probably two and a half years, I I moved um to uh out of patrol.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I moved out of patrol and I went to uh community fairs.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's a different division.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're still a police officer, but you're kind of forward-facing in the community.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: You do a lot of events, you go to schools, you talk to a lot of people.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the umbrella of people that I was able to to reach and connect with grew uh immensely.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're going to schools and you're talking to big groups of people, you're inviting them to the church, I mean, uh to the uh police department, and you're uh doing things like junior police academies and citizens police academies.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: So the groups of people that that grew a lot.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: But the the patrol, the the being in the moment, right?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Being in the the difficult spot, the action.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's the best way to put it.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or the conversation.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's like because for me it it's it wasn't really the action.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was man, there's two people that need a situation, like to be helped with a situation.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: I can do that.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can talk to to that that wife or that husband and I can bring resolution here and we can solve this, right?
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Especially if it's a civil issue and not we don't have something that's like a crime criminal issue at the at the moment, right?
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: We can we can we can have a solution so it doesn't get there, right?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so um that's what kind of amped me up.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so but I moved to community affairs because honestly, the hustle and bustle of you know, 16 months of night shift from 6 p.m.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: to 6 a.m.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: uh wasn't it doesn't it it wasn't working.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: It w it wasn't working for um me, the stress of just like navigating four kids and school and being involved and and trying to um to be a dad and a husband and you know, still I uh there's different things I did at the church throughout um there, but still working part-time here trying to trying to do things and um essentially like just all the callings in my life, the values that I have.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what were what are the what are the c different callings in your life?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not just my job, right, right, or or whether it's law enforcement or past or whatever.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's it there's like what I realized is after two and a half, three years of patrol, is that man, at the end of the day, I don't think that I'm willing to sacrifice my values in all the other areas.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to the case, I think people probably don't even think about it.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so like when it comes to like, you know, God's called me to be um a follower of him, right?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like a Christian.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay so coming to church every other week isn't really working for me.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like that that's conflicting with with what God's being in Christian community and and uh and engaging in that way.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's something I value.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm only coming like once a month or or or twice a month, that that's a struggle for me.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and then call me to be a husband, yeah, right.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: So am I am I loving my wife well, or am I is she getting like what's what's left in my cup after every shift, right?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um because call me to be a father.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: So are my kids getting the best version of me?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or are they getting um you know, the version that's kind of desensitized a little bit and and kind of recovering from 12 hours and kind of surviving at times?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that really felt that way because you know, when 3 a.m.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: hits, I I don't know.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not 20, so yeah, uh I can't just take a monster.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the sacrifice work, sometimes it was hard.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the sacrifice the police are giving is pretty huge.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think law enforcement in general, I don't people understand like that aspect of it.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: You are literally uh out on the street for a 12-hour shift.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: And a 12-hour shift doesn't 14 or 16 hours, right?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think because usually a lot of things will happen at the right the end of the shift and you have to stay through the to the end.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know how many times you get cut off because you've hit your maximum of 16 hours and that you can't stay another minute, you gotta go.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's so many things that happen, and uh, you know, if you catch it, you gotta clean it, right?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if it's five o'clock in the morning, you know, and you're getting off in an hour and and and you see a driver that's swerving, and what are you just gonna let the driver go by?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, you gotta go stop the driver and make sure that that it's safe for everybody else that's about to get on the road.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and if it's a drunk driver, you're in it for the long haul.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a I guess when you when you talk about your values, I mean I really love what you said.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a value to the Lord, there's a value to your family, there's a value to your children or your to your to your wife and to your children.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so like how how would a police officer, I mean, because you know, like their duty is to be on patrol and to and to do that, like how you know, it was you wouldn't say like that that you weren't honoring God through that, but you were you're definitely honoring God.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: But for you personally, the value was I want to be able to give more of my time to my to my best part of my time to my children.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a young man's game, so to speak, put the two of our shifts.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think the law enforcement was the first thing in my life where my values were on the line.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like they weren't, they weren't, they were all discombobulated.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like they were still there, I still have values, but they were all not in the correct order.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um going to community fairs, that division, like it, it actually it allowed me to reprioritize my values.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was able to be at church every single week.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to work like an admin schedule, still be involved with kids and and different stuff, and and um uh things got that got better at home.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Not that things were bad, but I was able to give more time.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh give your best as opposed to what's left.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Megan didn't have to sleep alone all the time anymore.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, so it's like um a lot of things got better because I made that shift.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: But if you were to ask me, would I rather be you know in patrol or community fairs, I would say patrol.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's originally why That's where you're in the moment.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I came to this realization that if I was to go back to that, right, then I would I would have to go back.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Not that it would be nights all the time because you you you get seniority every time and you move forward, but um for you to go to there were seasons where I would have to compromise certain values.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: And for the time that I had in um in community affairs, I just realized that I don't feel like God is calling me to compromise everything, every other calling in my life for this one.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I didn't at the time I didn't know what that looked like, and and and praying for opportunity and figuring out what what what steps I should be taking and and where that's go.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'm what I'm finding when I was working at the and we're building a building and all this stuff at the time too.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm finding is while I'm uh working here at the church uh as an executive pastor part-time and then working at the PD full-time, what I'm finding is that God's blessing both.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh there's encouragement from both and plans from both and hopes from both sides, and and uh I I liked both, right?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it was something that that was was kind of kind of working, but it it it it slowly became like okay, um eventually this isn't gonna I can't do this forever.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: I can't I can't kind of teeter the fence forever.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I gotta figure out um is it am I gonna kind of jump both feet in with the church or am I gonna jump both feet in with the police department?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a lot of logistics that go into making like decisions when you're making huge life changes.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of uh, you know, you you know, you think about your kids, you think about your family, you're thinking about your your values and what God's calling you to.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're thinking about how many years left you have till you have to be set, like, like, like prepared.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um I talk about like retirement stuff.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, retirement.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: You there's a lot of things you think about.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like I'm not old, I guess, but I'm 39.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: But there's there's stuff that like mean you were you didn't join the police department at 22, you joined the police department at 34.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just one of those things where it's like there's just a lot that goes on in your head when when you think about all the things that God's called you to.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: And w especially when it comes to marriage uh as a Christian, as as a father, uh it's like there's so many things, and and you wrestle with that.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you start to kind of like, is ki or do does everything align?
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I what I what I what I got to is uh and then opportunity opens up here and and and um it's it's a it's a very clearly a better situation overall.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so then you go through the process of praying through that and and seeking God in that.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the same process that I kind of went to the first time before made a decision.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um I guess it'd be good to talk about, but like when I when I first came to law enforcement, I actually like talked to God's uh um God's people, uh I looked at God's word, uh, and I fasted and prayed and fasted and prayed, like sought out God's spirit, all that kind of stuff, the Holy Spirit in my life, and and uh people affirmed the calling to go to the police department.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh God's word affirmed it.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't anything I saw in scripture that kind of contradicted this is a bad thing.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like when I when I I kind of got a hotel and I fasted for a weekend and I prayed and I worshiped and and read James, I think that's a really good book when you're when you're doubting or you're wondering and you're contemplating things and trying to figure out what God has for you.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Was there a verse, specific verse that spoke to you?
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: The whole book, like like this the whole thing.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like the you know, when you're asking of God, don't doubt, all this kind of stuff.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: That whole theme of just like like God's got you.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it what I left what what when I went to law enforcement, it wasn't this, it wasn't you should be a police officer.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what I heard.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: What I heard was, I'm with you.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: Wherever you go, you're gonna be going in my name.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna be with you.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna go before you.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I left with like do you remember that?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: I told you I had like an ease, like a comfort.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the decision I made was to step into law enforcement.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the same thing happened when I decided to to step back into uh pastoring full-time.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is you know, I had an opportunity.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I sought out other other men uh with it in my life, people on both sides, not even just like people at the church, but people in my life, my family members, different things.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um then I I looked at God's word, looked at God's spirit.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I I invited um uh one of our elders, previous elders here to fast with me over a weekend.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he did that, and I did that, and I I kind of ended that with the same feeling of there is this isn't a right or wrong.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is this is for for like the I'm I'm gonna be with you.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is like you are you are following me.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: No matter what your position or your title is or your job is, yeah, your values and who you are isn't gonna change.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I'm st I'm still gonna pursue Jesus, gonna still gonna live for Jesus.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what when you're working at Dell or working at like an IT place or working at a grocery store, wherever you're working, it it that's not who you are.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so it doesn't it does matter.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think God can get uh very specific sometimes.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: But in my life, it was very much I'm gonna go before you and and it's gonna be okay.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt an ease about making a decision and exiting, exiting out of the police department.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't easy.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's hard.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think back and and uh about all the good things that God did through that, all the relationships that are now connected to our church, now connected to my life, um, people getting baptized, whatever, coming to know Jesus, all of that.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's there's really, really great things that happened in that season that I I wouldn't have those connections and those relationships if that never happened.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: The experience that I that I have now in my life and the training and the understanding of of law enforcement by by entering into it is is for me priceless because it was a world I knew nothing of.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wanna never was in the military, never went to the army, never um did any of that stuff.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: But now I I understand, not that that's the same thing, but sure.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: But in law enforcement, I understand the brotherhood.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so those are fond memories that I look back on, they're not even that long ago.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so it's it's getting used to the the new normal and and um kind of learning how to um just reflect on that and thank God for it.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then and then excited for how he's gonna use that in my future.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's one thing that I've ever really realized in in in all of my life that every experience that I've ever had from childhood to now, God has used it uh in in numerous amount of ways when it comes to like uh sharing your testimony, sharing your faith, like like who you are, uh the experience that you've gone through.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like God continually gives you opportunity uh to speak into people's life who needs that and who's experienced it.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna transition to kind of wrap this whole thing.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say somebody is about to make a decision or they feel like called, how would you call them to like, hey, hear God's voice?
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: How would they take that next step to pursue something different, like a calling or something like maybe it's the police, but maybe it's not the police, maybe it's like just calling in general.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think first off, like I I believe that God gives us the Bible, right?
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: So if if the Bible says it, like go ahead.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's a good thing.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: Green light, don't like take forever, like move forward with what scripture tells you to do.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um if if it's something like big in life, where you're like, hey, God's called me to this thing, um, I think that the God's word, God's people, God's spirit, like like looking at God's word, if it contradicts God's word, it's a no.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: Don't even go any farther.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if it doesn't and it clears God's word and got and the Bible supports um that um or whatever, uh, then you go to God's people, the people that He's placed in your life, yeah, right.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if you don't have these people, you're probably not in this, you're probably not a Christian, you probably don't have go to a church or affiliate in that way.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: But if you do, this is how I understand calling, right?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: And what I've done in my life multiple times.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: Then you go to God's people and you start asking people, like, hey, here's what I'm thinking, here's what I hear God telling me, here's what I see in scripture.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Am I, you know, misunderstanding this?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: Am I interpreting the scripture wrong?
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do you see any red flags with this?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, is am I crazy?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what like speak into my life?
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the keys.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna argue with you.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think we can all find people um that will tell us what we want to hear.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's really easy to do.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you need to find the people that will tell you what you need to hear, whether you want to hear it or not.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so find the people that that you trust in that aspect and sit them down and let them speak into it.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then just receive it and pray about it.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean that they're the end all be all.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, but if you you have godly people in your life who are following Jesus who love you and care about you, what's best for you, and they're pumping the brakes on something, um, they're doing it either two ways.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: One, they could be selfishly because they selfishly want you to do something, right?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or um they could be seriously seeing something like a red flag and they're waving it and they want you to stop because you're about to fly off the rails or something, right?
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so um most of the time, if you if you go to God's people, that's what they're doing it.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's how they're doing it, that they have a heart for you.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then God's spirit, you know, it's this is probably more of like where it starts, is that tugging on your heart?
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but like leaning into that, like actually, like not just okay, there's a little tug on my heart.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: What does this mean?
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: What does it look like?
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: Pray, spend time in God's word, like like focus, focus like with you and what God's telling you and and discerning the Holy Spirit in your own life.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um, there's a lot of good resources on how to figure that out, but um, for me, it's just like a plug, shameless plug.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the plug, here you go.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know this guy doesn't know me, but there's a book called Fresh Power, yeah.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um by Jim Cimbala.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's about the Holy Spirit, it really helped me in times of life where I'm trying to discern the Holy Spirit.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, uh, it was something that has always been really impactful that I kind of um give to anybody who's really wrestling wrestling with it.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a good read.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: But man.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hey, thanks, Grace, so much for joining us.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, if you've got any questions for Grace, we'd love to kind of bring him back.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: All you gotta do is text us in at 737-231-0605.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to ask Grayson more questions uh and uh tell us more awesome things about what it was like being in the police department and how he has uses faith in in that way.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: But hey, thanks so much, Grace, for joining us, and thank you, and we'll see you next time.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: Have an awesome week.