Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / How to Lift Heavy, Run Fast, and Train as a Hybrid Athlete with Cody McBroom | Ep 220

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How to Lift Heavy, Run Fast, and Train as a Hybrid Athlete with Cody McBroom | Ep 220 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:01
  Philip Pape: If you've been feeling stuck with your training, wondering whether you should get strong, build muscle or focus on endurance, and you've watched your gains plateau, leaving you wondering if it's possible to deadlift heavy and run fast without sacrificing one for the other, then this episode's for you.
• 0:15
  Philip Pape: Today, we're sitting down again with Cody McBroom to uncover how you can not only balance strength and endurance, but potentially surpass your previous best in both.
• 0:26
  Philip Pape: When you understand how to approach hybrid training, you can tackle your fitness goals with confidence, knowing that you don't have to choose between being strong and having stamina.
• 0:35
  Philip Pape: So if you've been limiting yourself to just lifting or just cardio because you think they don't mix, what we're about to share will give you the blueprint to excel in both without sacrificing either one.
• 0:47
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the podcast that blends evidence and engineering to help you build smart, efficient systems to achieve your dream physique.
• 1:00
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, philip Pape, and today Cody McBroom is back on the show to talk about hybrid training and setting high standards for yourself in the process.
• 1:10
  Philip Pape: Cody is the founder of Tailored Coaching Method, host of the Tailored Life podcast and a man on a mission to redefine what it means to be an athlete and a high performer in all areas of life.
• 1:20
  Philip Pape: He recently set some ambitious goals for himself, including a 405-pound deadlift for reps and a sub-45-minute 5K.
• 1:28
  Philip Pape: Today, you'll learn how to balance strength and endurance training to achieve seemingly conflicting goals.
• 1:34
  Philip Pape: We're going to explore time-efficient strategies for hybrid training and how to optimize your nutrition, both for muscle growth and cardiovascular performance.
• 1:41
  Philip Pape: You'll discover some ways to build mental toughness that translates beyond the gym, and how to set high standards without falling into perfectionism.
• 1:49
  Philip Pape: We'll also discuss using hybrid training to lean into hard and take the path of most resistance.
• 1:55
  Philip Pape: Cody, welcome back to the show, my man.
• 1:58
  Cody McBroom: Thank you, brother.
• 1:59
  Cody McBroom: I'm excited to be here and I'm excited to talk about these topics.
• 2:02
  Cody McBroom: I will say, man, I think I need to hire you to do my intros on my podcast, because you crush it every time.
• 2:09
  Cody McBroom: Man, that was phenomenal.
• 2:11
  Philip Pape: I appreciate it, man.
• 2:12
  Philip Pape: No, I have fun with it.
• 2:13
  Philip Pape: It's kind of like coming up with the titles that are not too clickbaity but enough to get your attention.
• 2:17
  Philip Pape: You know, and it's well-deserved, and people want to know, like, what they're getting into today?
• 2:21
  Philip Pape: I think we represented it well.
• 2:23
  Philip Pape: I, what they're getting into today.
• 2:23
  Philip Pape: I think we represented it well.
• 2:24
  Philip Pape: I've been listening to your show for quite a while and, for those listening who want to really deep dive into the hybrid training, cody's been talking about this a lot lately, so definitely check out his podcast.
• 2:35
  Philip Pape: But here's the thing, cody.
• 2:36
  Philip Pape: Here's the main question, right?
• 2:37
  Philip Pape: A lot of listeners think that they have to choose between being strong and building muscle or developing aerobic capacity and endurance.
• 2:44
  Philip Pape: What would you tell them?
• 2:47
  Cody McBroom: You don't.
• 2:47
  Cody McBroom: I think you can do both.
• 2:48
  Cody McBroom: I think that, as you know, in our profession it depends on so many factors, right?
• 2:53
  Cody McBroom: So I always hate being the guy that's like, well, it depends, and then it doesn't give somebody a concrete black and white answer like they want.
• 3:01
  Cody McBroom: But the reality is, you know, I think that I always like to look at things in two lenses scientific lens and then also the just anecdotal experience.
• 3:07
  Cody McBroom: Let's just look at things.
• 3:08
  Cody McBroom: You know I've used this even with bodybuilding.
• 3:10
  Cody McBroom: People will talk about like well, I don't know about high carb diets or like all this cardio or anything that they and I'm like just look at bodybuilders.
• 3:16
  Cody McBroom: Like, just look at bodybuilders.
• 3:17
  Cody McBroom: What about insulin, you know, and insulin sensitivity?
• 3:20
  Cody McBroom: I'm like, bodybuilders inject insulin, so if it was making you fat, they wouldn't do it.
• 3:25
  Cody McBroom: Now, I'm not promoting that, I don't do that, I'm not.
• 3:27
  Cody McBroom: You know what I mean.
• 3:27
  Cody McBroom: So I'm not promoting it.
• 3:28
  Cody McBroom: But I think that's a.
• 3:29
  Cody McBroom: If we're being evidence-based, it's not just science, it's anecdote as well, right Combined.
• 3:35
  Cody McBroom: So I say that to say, look at CrossFitters.
• 3:38
  Cody McBroom: There's a lot of Jack CrossFitters.
• 3:46
  Cody McBroom: I like watching CrossFit games and stuff.
• 3:47
  Cody McBroom: You know what I mean.
• 3:48
  Cody McBroom: I think it's great.
• 3:48
  Cody McBroom: Those, they're freak athletes.
• 3:49
  Cody McBroom: It's awesome.
• 3:49
  Cody McBroom: But they have at least proven that you know, concurrent training, which is training for two modalities that have opposing goals or effects, can work, like you can do it, you know.
• 3:58
  Cody McBroom: And so the easy answer is yes, you can do it.
• 4:01
  Cody McBroom: The long answer would be you be.
• 4:03
  Cody McBroom: It depends on how much improvement you need in one or the other.
• 4:07
  Cody McBroom: So if somebody comes to me and they're on flatline on both and they want to improve both equally, I would tell them hey, I don't think you're going to equally improve both at the same rate.
• 4:19
  Cody McBroom: I think one is likely going to improve and increase at a higher rate than the other If you put more focus into that right.
• 4:27
  Cody McBroom: So for me, for example, like my training is much more geared towards endurance and conditioning right now, because I have a half marathon in like just under five weeks and I'm doing high rocks February 1st of next year.
• 4:38
  Cody McBroom: So I have like five months, I think, for that one.
• 4:40
  Cody McBroom: And if I need to work on anything in this hybrid journey, it's endurance.
• 4:46
  Cody McBroom: I've never been a runner.
• 4:47
  Cody McBroom: I've competed in men's physique bodybuilding twice, I've put a lot of people on stage, I've trained for photo shoots and always just focused on hypertrophy and building muscle Like.
• 4:54
  Cody McBroom: That's what I'm, I've been good at.
• 4:56
  Cody McBroom: So cardio for me was getting my steps in and, you know, on a treadmill to burn calories during a cut, which is an easy way to do it and it's very easy to recover from.
• 5:05
  Cody McBroom: I think it's a really smart way, but it's not really hammering the endurance component home.
• 5:09
  Cody McBroom: So two thirds of my focus volume training all that is going to be leaning towards endurance, because I need the most improvement there, while one third is going to be towards hypertrophy, just to maintain the muscle I have.
• 5:20
  Cody McBroom: This is the other side of it.
• 5:21
  Cody McBroom: How experienced are you?
• 5:22
  Cody McBroom: For me, I'm not trying to do both.
• 5:23
  Cody McBroom: I'm not trying to build both.
• 5:24
  Cody McBroom: Maintain one, build the other and I would say that most hybrid and I think this is a really, really important key because we know newbies can probably get results from anything right, You're new to it, you're going to jump into something, you're going to get results.
• 5:36
  Cody McBroom: So if somebody is brand new to lifting entirely, running entirely, yes, do both.
• 5:40
  Cody McBroom: You're probably going to do both.
• 5:41
  Cody McBroom: And as you get to like an intermediate stage, you're probably going to have to lean towards the one you want to improve more than the other, but at a level like myself.
• 5:54
  Cody McBroom: Like and I'm just going to call this out If I get shredded in the process of doing hybrid training, I look like a crazy athlete, which would be awesome, right, and it probably will happen, to be honest, because I'm burning so many more calories than I have in a long time.
• 6:04
  Cody McBroom: It's not hybrid training that got the muscle on my body, and I think that's really important.
• 6:10
  Cody McBroom: So, when we look at these people who are hybrid athletes online and people are like, oh, I want to look like that.
• 6:14
  Cody McBroom: I got to do hybrid training.
• 6:15
  Cody McBroom: Like well, hold on, like let's look back, because you know, if Five to ten years before they were strictly doing bodybuilding, they have laid a foundation of muscle way before they started running.
• 6:24
  Cody McBroom: So they just maintain that muscle during all the hybrid training and that's why they look like that while being a hybrid athlete, and I think that's something a lot of people miss, and that's even the case for me.
• 6:34
  Cody McBroom: I'm not going to sit here and act like this is how I'm building more muscle.
• 6:36
  Cody McBroom: No, when I build muscle, I'm doing more volume in the gym, lifting and less cardio, right, but I believe, like it's really easy to maintain muscle and research has shown that.
• 6:46
  Cody McBroom: And research has also shown, if you split up your training sessions by four to six hours, as far as like running and lifting, that's the safest way to be practicing concurrent training without having a negative impact on either one of them, right?
• 7:01
  Cody McBroom: So we have four to six hours between meals, in between stuff like that I'm going to easily be able to maintain my muscle, and if I look like I'm jacked while doing it, it's just because I maintain that muscle and I got leaner from burning so many calories.
• 7:12
  Cody McBroom: That makes sense.
• 7:14
  Philip Pape: It makes total sense to me and I was kind of in the trap of CrossFit years ago thinking if I start CrossFit and do CrossFit, I'll look like a CrossFitter right, and in reality the best of those athletes, right when you look at their routine there's a lot of training, a lot of strength training, there's an off-season, there's periodization.
• 7:29
  Philip Pape: They split up the nutrition and it's funny because I went full circle and eventually, you know, I would got to the point where I would trash CrossFit, which is also not necessarily the reaction we want to have.
• 7:40
  Philip Pape: What I hear you're saying is you can kind of have it all.
• 7:43
  Philip Pape: You may have to focus on one thing more than the other, not necessarily to the exclusion of the other.
• 7:48
  Philip Pape: Newbies will grow no matter what and you're not going to lose a lot of muscle.
• 7:53
  Philip Pape: You're not going to lose all your gains just because you throw in cardio.
• 7:56
  Philip Pape: And you can throw in quite a bit of cardio.
• 7:57
  Philip Pape: Which, cody?
• 7:58
  Philip Pape: I talked to a guy named Ben on the show and he puts in 60 hours of running a week and he puts in 60 hours of running a week and he's still jacked.
• 8:04
  Philip Pape: He holds onto his muscle, even went into a cut early on in that and gained a little muscle, so you never know right.
• 8:09
  Philip Pape: So what?
• 8:15
  Philip Pape: I think a lot of listeners are probably going to ask besides, are you going to lose your gains which you're like?
• 8:18
  Philip Pape: No, you're not going to do, that is all right.
• 8:19
  Philip Pape: What do I start with If I'm a newbie?
• 8:20
  Philip Pape: That's one scenario.
• 8:22
  Philip Pape: And then somebody who's been lifting, which is the majority of people listening to the show.
• 8:25
  Philip Pape: You know what direction should I take, because you know, I see Cody, he's jacked.
• 8:29
  Philip Pape: He's been doing this for years.
• 8:30
  Philip Pape: Maybe he's been lifting for 10 years.
• 8:31
  Philip Pape: Should I be doing one first, almost exclusively?
• 8:36
  Philip Pape: Should I do both, or is that going to slow me down?
• 8:50
  Cody McBroom: People are worried because they hear this and like, ah, give me the nuance, cody, what should I do?
• 8:52
  Cody McBroom: Yeah, I think it's a great question, man.
• 8:53
  Cody McBroom: I think you know I've gotten that a bit too similar questions.
• 8:54
  Cody McBroom: I think that it all depends on what your like if this person was to look in the future and answer the question, what does the best version of you that you're after look like you know?
• 8:59
  Cody McBroom: And not look like just physique wise, but feel like, look like, act like you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 9:05
  Cody McBroom: And I think that determines what my answer would be and how much you should do.
• 9:11
  Cody McBroom: Because if we just look at what builds muscle right Mechanical tension, stress and tension placed on the muscle Volume is the metric right.
• 9:17
  Cody McBroom: So a lot of people say volume is the key driver to hypertrophy.
• 9:19
  Cody McBroom: It's not.
• 9:20
  Cody McBroom: Mechanical tension is the key driver to hypertrophy.
• 9:22
  Cody McBroom: Volume is the metric we use to track how much mechanical tension you're creating on a daily, weekly, monthly basis.
• 9:28
  Cody McBroom: So if you need, this is just a hypothetical number.
• 9:32
  Cody McBroom: Not everybody needs this much more advanced.
• 9:34
  Cody McBroom: People do 20 sets per muscle group per week in order to develop more muscle tissue, to build more muscle than you have.
• 9:40
  Cody McBroom: And now you're trying to improve your running.
• 9:42
  Cody McBroom: Well, do you have enough time during the week to do that?
• 9:46
  Cody McBroom: Maybe not.
• 9:47
  Cody McBroom: And then the second question is okay, well, are there some muscles you don't care about growing and or don't need to grow?
• 9:52
  Cody McBroom: Let's do less 10 sets per week on those 20, on the ones that you want to grow, maybe now that you have time.
• 9:57
  Cody McBroom: And this is me also letting people know when I run, I still lift in the afternoon nine times out of 10.
• 10:07
  Cody McBroom: Like this morning, I had a tempo run and I ran early, 6 AM, and I'm going to lift today at 3 30 PM, and it's not always easy to you know.
• 10:12
  Cody McBroom: Talking about the whole mentality thing, I call it choose hard.
• 10:14
  Cody McBroom: But like I have to choose hard, I didn't want to run this morning at all.
• 10:16
  Cody McBroom: I was tired but I did it and I'm glad I did.
• 10:19
  Cody McBroom: That's part of my goal, and I have to do two days in order to get enough of both to be where I want to be.
• 10:26
  Cody McBroom: So people have to understand that.
• 10:28
  Cody McBroom: Now, if somebody is asking this question, I go what's your future self look like?
• 10:32
  Cody McBroom: And they're like well, I want to be jacked, I want to be strong, I want to build muscle, I want to be lean.
• 10:36
  Cody McBroom: These are all characteristics that really don't need any endurance training.
• 10:39
  Cody McBroom: But maybe they say, but I don't want to lose my health and I want to be able to keep up with my kids and their soccer scrimmage, you know, and practice basketball, whatever it is, and at that point I would go okay.
• 10:52
  Cody McBroom: So really you need to train like you're training for physique goals, because that's your primary goal, and you need enough.
• 10:58
  Cody McBroom: Obviously, we can't ignore nutrition, but we're not going to really go down that road but, like, nutrition is a big key to health, but you need enough cardio and aerobic training in order to support health, in order to support enough endurance to keep up with your kid in a soccer scrimmage, right?
• 11:13
  Cody McBroom: So let's just define what that is, cause I'm trying to go run a half marathon, which is 13 miles, and I got thrown into it at a pretty quick timeline, partially because my friend was like oh, you'll be fine, do it with me.
• 11:25
  Cody McBroom: And I'm like all right, whatever.
• 11:26
  Cody McBroom: But after that I want to do high rocks.
• 11:28
  Cody McBroom: Eventually, I don't know if I'll do a full marathon, maybe I will, whatever it is.
• 11:32
  Cody McBroom: But there's a difference between I want to run 13 miles straight and I want an appreciable time.
• 11:41
  Cody McBroom: I looked up what a time is and I'm like, okay, I'm going to.
• 11:43
  Cody McBroom: And I talked to my friend, he's a runner.
• 11:45
  Cody McBroom: I'm like, screw it, I'll do a half marathon, screw the 5k.
• 11:47
  Cody McBroom: And so now I'm doing the half and I was like, what is the average male time, what is good?
• 11:52
  Cody McBroom: And if you get less than two hours, you crush it as an average person.
• 11:58
  Cody McBroom: So I'm like, okay, so I just want to get two hours.
• 11:59
  Cody McBroom: I get two hours and a half marathon and so that's a high standard goal.
• 12:02
  Cody McBroom: You don't need to run a half marathon if you want to keep up with the kids.
• 12:04
  Cody McBroom: You get what I'm saying.
• 12:05
  Cody McBroom: So I think that people get it confused and it's like, if it's just a health component, honestly you could go on one long run per week and you're going to get the health benefits.
• 12:12
  Cody McBroom: And I'll just add this too there was a cool study that showed and I love when they do studies like this they put somebody.
• 12:21
  Cody McBroom: They do this is because it's not like me versus you in a study, it's me versus me.
• 12:25
  Cody McBroom: So genetics, dna, like responsiveness, everything is controlled because it's just me and my right leg pedals and they're developing aerobic benefits in that leg, cause there's a lot to be said about just improvement with blood flow, mitochondria, all these things that do lead to better muscle growth and muscle activation.
• 12:47
  Cody McBroom: And so they did that on the right leg or the left leg, I can't remember which one it was and then they did single leg leg extensions like press stuff like that, and there was a more favor for hypertrophy in the leg that actually did the cardio and they did it and they separated all that stuff and what they contribute that to is the aerobic benefits that you get when doing cardio from a blood flow perspective, energy systems perspective, the cardiovascular nature of just recovering faster between reps, sets, days of the week, allowing you to deliver more oxygen to the muscle, build more, but also do more volume because you're recovering faster right.
• 13:17
  Cody McBroom: All these things led to more muscle growth, more volume being accomplished.
• 13:20
  Cody McBroom: So there's still benefit to doing cardio when it comes to trying to build muscle Right, and so I think everybody should do a little bit.
• 13:28
  Cody McBroom: But I run five days a week and I'm varying the distances and the paces and all, so you don't need to do all that right, unless you have goals of pursuing a hybrid journey, something like that.
• 13:37
  Philip Pape: I just I take everything to the furthest Good, it's good Cause then we learn from you.
• 13:41
  Philip Pape: We're like okay, that's my goal, this is the pushing the limit.
• 13:44
  Philip Pape: Where do I want to fall on that spectrum?
• 13:46
  Philip Pape: Right, and there is this thought with a lot of people and I've even said this in the past and my tune has changed of like okay, if you're a lifter, if you lift heavy, if you get in the volume, you're also building your work capacity.
• 13:57
  Philip Pape: You just got to walk.
• 13:59
  Philip Pape: But it is true to you, brian Borstein, brandon Cruz, a whole bunch of other guys who are like yeah, I'm kind of into this idea of more cardio.
• 14:05
  Philip Pape: Now you know a little.
• 14:06
  Philip Pape: More cardio, not just during fat loss, not just to burn calories, but because it seems to help your lifting and helps your recovery.
• 14:11
  Philip Pape: Like you said, it gives you just general health and even surprising benefits that we're still learning in the research.
• 14:20
  Philip Pape: And you don't have to become an endurance athlete unless that is your goal.
• 14:22
  Philip Pape: Would you say so?
• 14:24
  Philip Pape: Let me ask you this.
• 14:25
  Philip Pape: So I did CrossFit for like eight years.
• 14:27
  Philip Pape: It definitely helped with my conditioning tremendously, to the point where I can go long stretches of being a lazy fat ass and not doing any cardio at all Okay, and still feel like I'm pretty healthy and my resting heart rate and VO2 max are like right there.
• 14:41
  Philip Pape: What do we know about the lasting effects of kind of training versus being detrained in a cardio capacity?
• 14:49
  Philip Pape: Does that make sense?
• 14:50
  Cody McBroom: Yeah, you know I have mixed feelings on this because in one sense I do and I've noticed this too like I do believe that cardio adaptations happen quicker in the beginning as well.
• 15:00
  Cody McBroom: So typically your thought might be that, hey, well, if you improve quickly, you might have the opposite effect.
• 15:08
  Cody McBroom: If we look at dieting and metabolic adaptation, it kind of leads that you know a lot of people can.
• 15:13
  Cody McBroom: If we cut your calories and you easily lose weight and there's no problem because your metabolism slowly adapts, well, it's going to bite you in the ass on the way back up in the reverse diet, maybe right.
• 15:20
  Cody McBroom: And vice versa, you might struggle because I got to really cut calories to drop body fat.
• 15:25
  Cody McBroom: But if we increase calories in the reverse, your body adapts, your metabolism works with you, and then you might be a quote unquote hyper responder, which is really just you moving more as you consume more calories and not realizing it typically.
• 15:37
  Cody McBroom: But I say that to say I don't know if it works the same with cardio.
• 15:42
  Cody McBroom: I do believe that I mean I've adapted very quickly just from a standpoint of, like, my ability to improve my running has happened very, very quickly.
• 15:50
  Cody McBroom: I started getting plantar fasciitis and this is not the first time I've got.
• 15:54
  Cody McBroom: I actually got that in my physique prep my last bodybuilding show as well just from so much walking towards the end of an inclined treadmill.
• 16:00
  Cody McBroom: And I took a week off last week actually to just you got to just lay off.
• 16:05
  Cody McBroom: It's the best way to do it Ice and lay off.
• 16:07
  Cody McBroom: And I went back into it this week and I felt great.
• 16:10
  Cody McBroom: I felt just as good, if not better, and so I was assuming like I'm going to have to play catch up a little bit.
• 16:21
  Cody McBroom: It's only a week so it shouldn't do too much.
• 16:22
  Cody McBroom: But I figured, you know, I've never done much conditioning Like it's never been my thing.
• 16:25
  Cody McBroom: I've had to program a lot of it just because of clients and stuff.
• 16:29
  Cody McBroom: So I've learned a lot about it but I've just never enjoyed it because I suck at it and I don't think it's fun.
• 16:33
  Cody McBroom: But I do think that, to your point, I think the health benefits that you get can be easily maintained and it would be.
• 16:39
  Cody McBroom: You know, I think it's the same thing with muscle.
• 16:41
  Cody McBroom: We all know those guys who, like those old guys, that they might have a gut but they're just kind of jacked.
• 16:45
  Cody McBroom: Still.
• 16:45
  Cody McBroom: They got big shoulders, big chest, big back.
• 16:47
  Cody McBroom: You know, all that stuff is clearly like still there, their muscle doesn't disappear like that.
• 16:53
  Cody McBroom: You know, it's just one of those things I would imagine.
• 16:56
  Cody McBroom: Cardio is very similar.
• 16:56
  Cody McBroom: I think once you get those benefits, I think it's really good.
• 16:58
  Cody McBroom: Now there's also a lot that can counteract that.
• 17:01
  Cody McBroom: So great, you're doing a lot of cardio, but when you stop, maybe your cardiovascular adaptations don't just go away, but if you get actual fat, you're going to have negative health benefits from the fat you're carrying.
• 17:13
  Cody McBroom: And now if you go try to run, you're also going to have to run with 20 extra pounds.
• 17:16
  Cody McBroom: So you know, did your cardiovascular health diminish or did you just get fat?
• 17:21
  Cody McBroom: Good point, but I agree with you.
• 17:23
  Cody McBroom: I think in general I do think it's going to be easy to maintain.
• 17:25
  Cody McBroom: It's the same thing with muscle Muscle is very hard to build.
• 17:27
  Cody McBroom: It's easy to maintain for the most part.
• 17:29
  Cody McBroom: Fat loss is not easy to maintain.
• 17:33
  Cody McBroom: You got to like I would say it's easier to maintain than it is to do.
• 17:36
  Cody McBroom: But I say all this to say I think they're all kind of in their own box.
• 17:39
  Cody McBroom: I think they're all slightly different.
• 17:40
  Cody McBroom: I think it depends on how you're running and how you're programming it too, and I also think it depends on how long.
• 17:44
  Cody McBroom: If you did CrossFit for five years straight, that's an adaptation that's going to stick.
• 17:49
  Cody McBroom: You know, it's the same thing with muscle, like I just I like to tell people it's very unscientific, but if you build a lot of muscle and you're able to maintain it for quite a while because you're lifting, you're doing stuff, you've kind of solidified that mass on your body, it's going to be really hard to get rid of it.
• 18:02
  Cody McBroom: Like you're going to have to like literally starve for it, to like atrophy right or have a disease.
• 18:06
  Cody McBroom: So I'm not familiar with any scientific research that has actually studied this exact topic, but I would imagine, just based on everything else, that if you stick with it for long enough, it's probably going to stick around pretty long as well.
• 18:19
  Philip Pape: Yeah, it makes sense.
• 18:19
  Philip Pape: I mean, muscle-wise, I think we're still coming to learn what the mechanisms are, you know, satellite cells and creating new muscle fibers and so on, which is pretty amazing, right?
• 18:28
  Philip Pape: They're effectively there, You've created them and now they're there and they come back.
• 18:31
  Philip Pape: Cardio I definitely have heard that the adaptation comes and goes or it comes quickly.
• 18:36
  Philip Pape: So therefore, I imagine you factor that in to your strategy with you're trying to go after deadlift for reps, You're trying to go after 5k at the same time.
• 18:45
  Philip Pape: We call these seemingly conflicting goals, but I think the way you've talked about it is they're not conflicting.
• 18:50
  Philip Pape: You just have to fit them in and you have to balance them against your constraints, Like your time.
• 18:54
  Philip Pape: You have time for two days, Maybe.
• 18:56
  Philip Pape: Maybe the busy dad or the parent has 45 minutes a day, yeah, so yeah.
• 19:07
  Cody McBroom: That's kind of why I mentioned that too.
• 19:07
  Cody McBroom: I want people to know I say that stuff because I think there's a lot of people online who don't, and I want people to know that, like, behind this wall is a gym, it's like a literal 2000 square foot gym that I film content and do that stuff.
• 19:12
  Cody McBroom: So for me to not be able to do it two a day, it would be kind of ridiculous.
• 19:14
  Cody McBroom: I would have to be, you know, like so busy that it would be, you know it would be impossible.
• 19:21
  Cody McBroom: And I'm blessed my wife is a stay-at-home mom, so that helps me a ton.
• 19:24
  Cody McBroom: I don't have to pick up my daughter from school because my wife does.
• 19:27
  Cody McBroom: So it's like I wake up at 5 am.
• 19:29
  Cody McBroom: So don't get me wrong, I get up early and I start early, but I'm home at 5.
• 19:33
  Cody McBroom: And that includes my due session.
• 19:39
  Cody McBroom: So I point that out because I have expectations for myself that are a lot of times greater than the expectations of my clients, cause I'm realistic with those things.
• 19:43
  Cody McBroom: And the other thing is I've done a 405 pound deadlift for multiple reps, and I say that to say not because it's like super impressive, but because my goal isn't to like it would be different if I was like the most I've ever done is three, 15, but I'm going to run a half marathon and I'm going to increase my deadlift by 95 pounds or 85 pounds, whatever it is, and like that's unrealistic, right.
• 20:02
  Cody McBroom: And so I say that because I'm trying to get back to be able to do that without hurting my back.
• 20:07
  Cody McBroom: Because what got me into the hybrid journey was I hurt my back and it was like I'm not deadlifting right now because my back hurts and I messed up my lower back.
• 20:14
  Cody McBroom: I have to go through some, you know, recovery, some mobility.
• 20:16
  Cody McBroom: I got to start shifting my training volume a bit to not do so much on my body and if I do all this right, I can pursue this hybrid journey but also I can recover my back and be able to deadlift heavy again for a few reps.
• 20:34
  Philip Pape: That's really the goal.
• 20:35
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I feel you on the back too.
• 20:35
  Philip Pape: Same thing If I go too heavy and too much volume.
• 20:36
  Philip Pape: At my age, the back feels it, but that doesn't preclude having a 405, 425 plus deadlift if you do it right.
• 20:42
  Philip Pape: Shout out to all stay-at-home moms.
• 20:43
  Philip Pape: By the way, my wife's also a stay-at-home mom.
• 20:45
  Philip Pape: We homeschool our kids and I'm blessed and I know you are too.
• 20:48
  Philip Pape: I'm so grateful that that leaves me.
• 20:50
  Philip Pape: It frees me from a lot of things that a lot of other guys have to do.
• 20:55
  Philip Pape: So we get it.
• 20:55
  Philip Pape: But again, if you're listening to this, you have your life.
• 20:59
  Philip Pape: That is a constraint that someone else doesn't have, and vice versa.
• 21:02
  Philip Pape: So you've got to work with what you have and personalize it, which I know you're a big fan of.
• 21:05
  Philip Pape: So let's talk about the mental strategies, then, for I'll call it an extreme physical goal, right?
• 21:11
  Philip Pape: Because at the end of the day, a small push in a direction takes a lot less of that mental effort than going to the extremes.
• 21:18
  Philip Pape: You're talking about pushing through barriers, leaning into hard.
• 21:22
  Philip Pape: Let's talk about your phrase the path of most resistance.
• 21:25
  Philip Pape: What does that mean?
• 21:27
  Philip Pape: What are we trying to accomplish?
• 21:28
  Philip Pape: And are we talking about friction?
• 21:29
  Philip Pape: Are we talking about something very controlled and deliberate to get there.
• 21:34
  Cody McBroom: Yeah.
• 21:34
  Cody McBroom: So I think there's a lot of things that we can unpack with this and even to just directly tie it to what we just got done talking about.
• 21:40
  Cody McBroom: You know, I actually posted about this today.
• 21:43
  Cody McBroom: It's a really interesting thought.
• 21:44
  Cody McBroom: As life goes on, you get more busy, you get more responsibility.
• 21:47
  Cody McBroom: So you go from having really no bills as a young to having bills to having to work, to not just working and putting in hours but actually developing a career.
• 21:56
  Cody McBroom: Then you have a marriage and then you have kids and you eventually have a mortgage.
• 22:00
  Cody McBroom: Your time gets limited, right.
• 22:02
  Cody McBroom: So when I think of it like this too is like hey, if you're like man, I just don't have time right now, maybe we'll calm down this Like you're never gonna have the time, Just make time now because you make time for what you value most, right, I'll be honest, there's a lot of things I don't do nearly as much of as other people do, and that's because I chose these things instead of those things.
• 22:24
  Cody McBroom: I chose to build a company.
• 22:25
  Cody McBroom: I chose to like be in touch with my clients.
• 22:28
  Cody McBroom: I chose to hang with my daughter and my wife really every moment that I'm not working, instead of going and drinking with the boys and going on trips and doing these things because I knew I can't build the company I want to build and go have fun with all my friends and be a great dad.
• 22:43
  Cody McBroom: We're limited to how much great things we can do.
• 22:46
  Cody McBroom: I chose these great things and so every once in a while I do, and I have a lot of friends that I try to stay in touch with and they know that they respect it now, but that's the path I chose.
• 22:55
  Cody McBroom: So I say that to say we all have time.
• 22:59
  Cody McBroom: We just have to make time for the things that we prioritize and want most.
• 23:03
  Cody McBroom: What I prioritize most is my girls, my wife and daughter, my fitness and my business, and those come before everything else.
• 23:09
  Cody McBroom: And some people will listen and think that that's not balance.
• 23:13
  Cody McBroom: That's fine.
• 23:14
  Cody McBroom: Balance isn't about time.
• 23:15
  Cody McBroom: Balance is about spending your time on earth doing what you love and what you get value from and what you can give value back with, and those are the things that I get value from.
• 23:23
  Cody McBroom: So, anyway, I think that this whole idea of making time is really important for people to understand, because you're not going to get more as you age, you're just going to get less until you retire and then by the time you retire, you're not going to care about your deadlift or your abs, you're just going to be retired and chilling.
• 23:36
  Cody McBroom: But with regards to leaning into resistance and all this stuff, I kind of honestly, it was a really cool kind of inception.
• 23:43
  Cody McBroom: I started just saying choose hard when, like, I had to make a hard decision and I didn't want to, but I knew I had to, and then I would do it.
• 23:51
  Cody McBroom: And then it's like choosing hard makes me better.
• 23:52
  Cody McBroom: And then I started like kind of saying it to clients when I would notice they did it.
• 23:56
  Cody McBroom: And then I started getting some people that picked up on it and actually like DM me and they would just, hey, I just want to share, I did this after your podcast and blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 24:04
  Cody McBroom: And then it would be like hashtag choose hard in the DM.
• 24:06
  Cody McBroom: I was like that's really dope.
• 24:07
  Cody McBroom: And then so I changed my broadcast channel on Instagram to choose hard daily drip.
• 24:11
  Cody McBroom: And then I went and trademarked it, cause I was like this is like let me see if anybody has this.
• 24:15
  Cody McBroom: Nobody had it.
• 24:18
  Cody McBroom: So I'm like dope.
• 24:18
  Cody McBroom: So I look at it.
• 24:19
  Cody McBroom: Is there's Nike, just do it.
• 24:21
  Cody McBroom: There's Taylor coach method choose hard, right, and because and this is the part with resistance, right I think that every decision has a hard component.
• 24:30
  Cody McBroom: It's really about choosing hard today so that you can have easy tomorrow.
• 24:32
  Cody McBroom: But if you choose easy today, which is less resistance, it's comfort.
• 24:37
  Cody McBroom: It's being complacent, right, like that's the easy path.
• 24:40
  Cody McBroom: Now it's going to lead to difficult things later.
• 24:43
  Cody McBroom: Right, like that's the easy path Now.
• 24:43
  Cody McBroom: It's going to lead to difficult things later, right?
• 24:44
  Cody McBroom: If you choose the non-active route, cause it's easier to be lazy, it's easier to eat packaged foods, easier to eat whatever, it's easier to not meal prep, whatever it is that's going to lead to difficulty in your life.
• 24:52
  Cody McBroom: You are going to gain weight, you are going to be unhealthy, you are going to be less confident, like we.
• 24:57
  Cody McBroom: The list goes on.
• 24:58
  Cody McBroom: We know this.
• 24:59
  Cody McBroom: The hard thing is doing the assault bike.
• 25:02
  Cody McBroom: The hard thing is going to the gym in the morning.
• 25:03
  Cody McBroom: The hard thing for me was running at six in the morning this morning.
• 25:06
  Cody McBroom: And it's in Washington state, so it's cold here.
• 25:12
  Cody McBroom: I hate it, but I got to do it.
• 25:13
  Cody McBroom: You know, and it's literally September 4th, I think it should not be this cold already, but it is so.
• 25:15
  Cody McBroom: But I went and did it because it was hard, and so those things make everything easier, because now, every hard decision that I don't have a choice with because there's things in life that come up that are hard decisions to make, hard conversations to have and you don't get a choice this is your only option, right?
• 25:30
  Cody McBroom: Those are going to be easier for me to handle and I'm going to handle them with confidence and with poise, because I consistently chose hard and there's a difference between doing hard and choosing hard, and I want people to understand that when you choose hard, something happens in your brain.
• 25:47
  Cody McBroom: There's actually a part of your brain that literally develops and you will literally.
• 25:49
  Cody McBroom: They call them super agers.
• 25:49
  Cody McBroom: I was listening to, actually Andrew Huberman was talking about and I just started going on this rabbit hole.
• 25:52
  Cody McBroom: I actually just listened to this I think it was on Joe Jones Parks like a week ago and can't remember the part of the brain, but there's a lot of research that I was already digging into on this.
• 26:08
  Cody McBroom: But one of the fascinating things that he said that I liked was they call them super agers and it's basically a reversal of these cognitive declines.
• 26:10
  Cody McBroom: Right, it doesn't mean like, oh, you're in reverse time and age differently, but you slow down the likelihood of decreasing productivity, decreasing memory, decreasing your chances of getting Alzheimer's and all these things, just from challenging yourself as crazy as that sounds.
• 26:20
  Cody McBroom: So if you're doing a cold punch, you're challenging yourself.
• 26:23
  Cody McBroom: You're going to live longer, like as crazy as that sounds.
• 26:23
  Cody McBroom: So if you're doing a cold punch, you're challenging yourself, you're going to live longer.
• 26:25
  Cody McBroom: As crazy as that sounds, you're developing things in your brain.
• 26:28
  Cody McBroom: There's also a component of neuroplasticity.
• 26:30
  Cody McBroom: It helps with dopamine, serotonin, all these things.
• 26:33
  Cody McBroom: You're going to be happier, you're going to be in a better mood.
• 26:35
  Cody McBroom: You're also going to accomplish more in life because things are going to come up and you're going to easily make the right decision without even thinking twice because you've been consistently choosing hard, and choosing hard today makes choosing hard in other realms way easier to do.
• 26:47
  Cody McBroom: And so I think that my goal with it and it started with again with our clients and then people who are following me, and I'm just really trying to just spread as much as I can now is if you can get more people to choose hard in their day-to-day.
• 27:00
  Cody McBroom: I just think that, one, everybody's going to be healthier.
• 27:08
  Cody McBroom: Two, everybody's gonna accomplish their goals more.
• 27:09
  Cody McBroom: And three, I do think everybody's gonna generally be more fulfilled in life, because the hard thing could be.
• 27:12
  Cody McBroom: Me running this morning was three and a half miles and it was a tempo run, so that middle I think it was 1.9 miles in the middle was a really hard pace.
• 27:20
  Cody McBroom: It was a seven-minute mile, which which is I'm like pushing it after already running a mile warm up I was dying but like that was hard, you know, and easy was coming up soon, and then I know I have a seven mile run on Friday.
• 27:29
  Cody McBroom: That's going to be a little easier because I did these other ones first, and it doesn't just have to be this extreme goal though.
• 27:36
  Cody McBroom: So, for example, when I this sounds funny, but this is if you can program whoever's listening, if you can program whoever's listening to this, if you can program your brain this way and gamify it, this is how things really start to shift and this is what I've noticed my dog is like.
• 27:53
  Cody McBroom: So when we got my dog, when he was a puppy English bulldog Bubba, we got him and my wife wanted him and my daughter was four, I think, and we didn't experience terrible twos, it was terrible fours, and so she was just wild at that age and so, like I remember the, it was like literally day one.
• 28:06
  Cody McBroom: We got them on Sunday.
• 28:07
  Cody McBroom: I went to work on Monday and my wife texted me and was like I can't do it.
• 28:10
  Cody McBroom: We got to bring the dog back.
• 28:11
  Cody McBroom: I'm freaking out Like this is nuts.
• 28:13
  Cody McBroom: I was just like, hey, I'll bring him to work, I'll figure it out, he'll be fine.
• 28:19
  Cody McBroom: So he Just row with me, he's my guy.
• 28:22
  Cody McBroom: Then we got a new facility and I was like I don't want his drool everywhere so I left him at home.
• 28:25
  Cody McBroom: But when I get home he is ready to play like a little kid.
• 28:28
  Cody McBroom: And there's days where he brings his chew toy and he's strong, he's a big boy, he's an 80-pound bulldog.
• 28:39
  Cody McBroom: I'm like I want to play tug of war.
• 28:40
  Cody McBroom: I don't want to, would go away because he's a good dog, he listens, I say stop and he'll go.
• 28:43
  Cody McBroom: That would be easier for me to do and I can just relax.
• 28:45
  Cody McBroom: Or I could do the thing for the dog that I bought and I'm here to take care of.
• 28:49
  Cody McBroom: That's a hard decision.
• 28:50
  Cody McBroom: When my daughter wants to play Barbies, there's a lot of times I don't want to be Ken.
• 28:53
  Cody McBroom: But I could do the hard thing and I could say yes and I could be Ken and be enthusiastic about being the Ken doll when I don't want to.
• 29:01
  Cody McBroom: That's a hard decision that I make and that's a very simple one.
• 29:05
  Cody McBroom: You know what I mean.
• 29:06
  Cody McBroom: Like I could have been tired coming to this podcast, I'm like it would be hard for me to be fired up, but I'm going to choose to be fired up because I'm going to fake it a little bit and then I'll get fired up, which wasn't the case.
• 29:15
  Cody McBroom: I was fired up to be here, know it's kind of like in the matrix, the red pill and blue pill.
• 29:24
  Cody McBroom: In the matrix, Neil gets the opportunity.
• 29:25
  Cody McBroom: Do you want to take the red pill or the blue pill Right?
• 29:27
  Cody McBroom: So to me, choose hard is one of those pills, and every single day there's countless times where you run into a situation, you run into a conversation, you run into a decision you got to make, and there's the blue pill and the red pill.
• 29:37
  Cody McBroom: Choose hard.
• 29:43
  Cody McBroom: You just might change the outcome of what's going to happen.
• 29:45
  Cody McBroom: You just might shift how your brain works.
• 29:46
  Cody McBroom: It just might have a trickle effect that not only impacts your life, but it's going to impact somebody else's life, depending on what that decision is.
• 29:52
  Tony: My name is Tony.
• 29:53
  Tony: I'm a strength lifter in my forties.
• 29:55
  Tony: Thank you to Phil and his wits and weights community for helping me learn more about nutrition and how to implement better ideas into my strength training.
• 30:03
  Tony: Phil has a very, very good understanding of macros and chemical compounds and hormones and all that and he's continuously learning.
• 30:11
  Tony: That's what I like about Phil.
• 30:12
  Tony: He's got a great sense of humor.
• 30:13
  Tony: He's very relaxed, very easy to talk to.
• 30:15
  Tony: One of the greatest things about Phil, in my view, is that he practices what he preaches.
• 30:20
  Tony: He also works out with barbells.
• 30:22
  Tony: He trains heavy not as heavy as me, but he trains heavy.
• 30:25
  Tony: So if you talk with him about getting in better shape, eating better, he's probably going to give you some good advice and I would strongly recommend you talk with him and he'll help you out.
• 30:37
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I just want to rip off the headset and just like go do all these things right now.
• 30:40
  Philip Pape: Man, it's so motivational.
• 30:41
  Philip Pape: But seriously, it sounds like not choosing hard is where the regrets are made in life.
• 30:46
  Philip Pape: That's what I'm getting from that.
• 30:48
  Philip Pape: Like people who you know, when you regret things, you look back and you're like it's probably because I didn't choose heart in many cases, yeah, and you really hit me there with the daughter or with, you know, with kids, because I feel the same way.
• 30:58
  Philip Pape: It's like I could be really busy, focused in my work, working from home, and my daughter comes up and is like look, I made this thing for you, or I want to show you something, or do you have time for a game, and it's like that's what it takes to choose.
• 31:10
  Philip Pape: It seems like such a simple thing, but it's.
• 31:11
  Philip Pape: She's going to remember it the rest of her life, especially if it accumulates with multiple decisions like that through your life.
• 31:17
  Philip Pape: So when it's so valuable to take even the small things that to some people are harder than others, like we're not judging you as a listener of what's hard to you.
• 31:26
  Philip Pape: So, for example, if you've never meal prepped and you decide to take that you know hard step on Sundays of like carving out an hour for meal prep and now all of a sudden realize that the rest of the week gets easier and the stress goes away.
• 31:38
  Philip Pape: You're bearing the fruit of that hard, you know hard morning walk when you don't currently get off your seat all day could be the hard thing for you.
• 31:47
  Philip Pape: So it's like expanding that comfort zone and so on.
• 31:50
  Philip Pape: There was a story one of my other business coaches talked about the co-founder of Netflix, how he would reserve his Tuesday afternoons.
• 31:57
  Philip Pape: I don't know if you've heard this story.
• 31:59
  Philip Pape: Every day at Tuesday he would leave at 4 p, 4 PM or to hang out with his friend at the bar or whatever.
• 32:04
  Philip Pape: When he was single and then when he was married, it was like time to go home to see his kids and for his whole career he left at 4 PM, whereas you know, the classic line from entrepreneurs is you know work a hundred hours a week, right, like your great thing is your career, so forget everything else.
• 32:20
  Philip Pape: And you're saying that even though you're limited to an amount of great things, you do choose them wisely, like choose family, purpose, whatever it is.
• 32:27
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 32:28
  Cody McBroom: Yeah, and there's no judgment for those things being hard, like you said.
• 32:30
  Cody McBroom: Like I kind of sound like a dick by saying like I don't want to play barbies.
• 32:33
  Cody McBroom: Like what dude, you have a daughter.
• 32:35
  Cody McBroom: What do you mean?
• 32:35
  Cody McBroom: It's like okay.
• 32:36
  Cody McBroom: So any normal dude in their head in the moment doesn't want to enthusiastically be kin, but of course I do it.
• 32:41
  Cody McBroom: But there's a lot of times and I'm guilty of this too Like not right now, sweetie, like let's not, I've a hundred percent done it Right, and then I've felt bad about it later or I've like shifted the moment, like actually you know what?
• 32:51
  Cody McBroom: Okay, right, but to your point, that regret thing is so true, man.
• 32:55
  Cody McBroom: Like how many times have we heard like the stories of regret?
• 32:57
  Cody McBroom: Or Gary V went to the nursing home and talk to these people and they all regret Like I wish I would have asked out that girl.
• 33:01
  Cody McBroom: Well, why didn't you?
• 33:02
  Cody McBroom: Because I was lacking confidence and it felt hard to ask her out.
• 33:05
  Cody McBroom: I didn't know what to say.
• 33:06
  Cody McBroom: It felt hard to come up with something to say Okay, that's your hard thing.
• 33:10
  Cody McBroom: You know.
• 33:10
  Cody McBroom: It applies to so many different aspects of life and that's why I love it so much, because it really is hard, but now that person lives with the hard of regret.
• 33:20
  Cody McBroom: So again, it's hard now for easy later versus easy now for hard later and just not falling in to that comfort zone and a quick story to share about it bleeding into kids and all that stuff.
• 33:34
  Cody McBroom: But one of the things that I've always done and I actually look at this kind of like it's extreme ownership is what I looked at it as and I'm like I'm going to start doing this is picking up trash.
• 33:43
  Cody McBroom: And it's not like I walk around with one of those like things and poking picking up trash.
• 33:46
  Cody McBroom: But if I walk by a piece of trash that I can physically grab and like it's not like a tire on the side of the road, right, like it's just trash, I'm going to pick it up, because if I walk by it like if and it's the idea that if I do this, I'll be able to practice this extreme ownership in anything so if I'm walking by the dishes and it would be easy for me to get them done, but I don't feel like it, but it would make my wife happy, I'm going to do it real quick, Right, it's because if I have the power to do so and change something, I do it.
• 34:14
  Cody McBroom: That's what extreme ownership is.
• 34:15
  Cody McBroom: It's not my responsibility, I'm just taking ownership of it because I can do something right.
• 34:19
  Cody McBroom: So my thing was like picking up garbage, so like, even like to the point where I've uh, I got caught on one of the cameras with my neighbors, like I walked by and it was like a slurpy lid in their driveway and I walked but looked at, I walked by and I got like 10 feet away and just stopped and was like turned around and I went and grabbed it, cause I just I didn't feel like it, but I I was like in my head I'm like, oh, dude, you just walked by.
• 34:39
  Cody McBroom: You could have grabbed it.
• 34:40
  Cody McBroom: Dude, what are you doing?
• 34:41
  Cody McBroom: What are you doing?
• 34:41
  Cody McBroom: And then I had to turn around and get it and my daughter started picking up on this and we were driving by during Christmas last year and this couple has this nativity set, you know, with like Jesus baby and the stuff, and it kept blowing down in the wind and I would drive by and I'd stop, get out of my truck, walk out, push it into the grass, because the wind would blow it over, get in my truck and drive away.
• 35:02
  Cody McBroom: They're not out there, they don't see me do anything.
• 35:04
  Cody McBroom: My daughter kept seeing it and so she saw me going out of my way.
• 35:07
  Cody McBroom: She saw me stop in the middle of the road and drag somebody's garbage can in because I saw it and I was like, well, we're not going to be late to school, let me do it.
• 35:20
  Cody McBroom: And one day I was pulling out, stop, screamed.
• 35:22
  Cody McBroom: And it freaked me out.
• 35:23
  Cody McBroom: So I slammed on my brakes in the cul-de-sac.
• 35:24
  Cody McBroom: I'm like what?
• 35:25
  Cody McBroom: And she was like, oh, they're garbage, you gotta go get it.
• 35:27
  Cody McBroom: And I'm thinking I was like, sweet, we're going to be late.
• 35:29
  Cody McBroom: And she was like you can leave, it's on the ground.
• 35:32
  Cody McBroom: And I'm just like, okay, stop.
• 35:35
  Cody McBroom: And I went.
• 35:35
  Cody McBroom: That's my point with saying like you might choose hard and it has a trickle effect that somebody might see you do that and you never see them again, but you don't know the impact that that could leave on them and what they end up doing with it.
• 35:50
  Philip Pape: I think anytime you make that choice the red versus the blue pill, like you said it doesn't only change your neuroplasticity.
• 35:55
  Philip Pape: I think it has a ripple effect.
• 35:57
  Philip Pape: It has an effect on people watching you and it also has effect on the things you will then do that then have an effect on people.
• 36:03
  Philip Pape: It's almost like an exponential, internal, exponential flywheel, if you will.
• 36:08
  Philip Pape: In one realm.
• 36:10
  Philip Pape: You start to build a skill, you start to do something hard, you get better and better at it.
• 36:14
  Philip Pape: Now you want to tell people.
• 36:15
  Philip Pape: Now people see you doing it, now you're talking more about it and before you know it it's just like bled out in a positive way just to the world.
• 36:22
  Philip Pape: Really, and we're getting kind of philosophical here.
• 36:28
  Philip Pape: But I think this does come down to why we do these things physically, because there's also mental translation.
• 36:36
  Philip Pape: And then I love the whole kid analogy because my mom used to do that with the trash.
• 36:37
  Philip Pape: She used to do that and I've always had that gut reaction.
• 36:39
  Philip Pape: When I see trash I'm like I can't have that.
• 36:41
  Philip Pape: There.
• 36:41
  Philip Pape: To the point, cody, where I was hiking and this group was ahead of me and this guy like tosses a can into the uh, into the woods.
• 36:48
  Philip Pape: And I actually called him I said are you going to leave that there?
• 36:50
  Philip Pape: And he's like, oh no, I'm going to come back and get that.
• 36:52
  Philip Pape: And I'm like I'm just thinking, okay, I'm just going to hold my cool, I'm going to grab it and throw it away myself, but uh, it's a funny story, but it did, it's it's.
• 37:00
  Cody McBroom: That's awesome and it does trickle down like that.
• 37:02
  Cody McBroom: And I think that one thing that I will point out with the research on some of that't know if this is because it literally causes a greater effect when it's physical or if it's just that the studies done on this were primarily physical Cause it's also a lot easier in a study.
• 37:18
  Cody McBroom: I'm sure to be like, okay, we got to make these people do the hard thing and see what happens Probably going to be physical, you know, getting a cold plunge, like conditioning something, but they do see a great effect when we challenge ourselves physically.
• 37:31
  Cody McBroom: So you know, pushing yourself on the gym, pushing yourself on cardio, even pushing yourself with a diet.
• 37:36
  Cody McBroom: They even had research with these super agers and these people that they were showing people are more likely to be successful during a diet.
• 37:45
  Cody McBroom: People are more likely to lose the weight in a weight loss journey.
• 37:48
  Cody McBroom: People are more likely to accomplish the strength goal and in these different journeys and sustain those things when they actually did so in a way that challenged them.
• 37:56
  Cody McBroom: So it's not enough to lose weight, it's not enough to diet and make it so easy and this is my problem with like flexible dieting can go too far where it's like one.
• 38:05
  Cody McBroom: It's creating false belief.
• 38:05
  Cody McBroom: It's never that easy, you know.
• 38:07
  Cody McBroom: But also you should challenge yourself.
• 38:09
  Cody McBroom: It's okay.
• 38:10
  Cody McBroom: You know what.
• 38:10
  Cody McBroom: You should eat clean, you should meal prep, you should do some cardio, maybe just for the fact that it's going to create some discipline and that discipline is going to carry over and do something greater for you in your other areas of life.
• 38:19
  Cody McBroom: But you learned it from dieting and I do believe that fitness and nutrition are the catalyst for changing everything else in your life, because it's the easiest and safest way to get somebody to really push themselves and challenge themselves.
• 38:38
  Philip Pape: And it creates these positive effects everywhere else.
• 38:39
  Philip Pape: Yep for sure.
• 38:40
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and the thing about dieting is there are a lot of counterintuitive things like that.
• 38:42
  Philip Pape: People who start diets more aggressively tend to maintain the results better, right, according to evidence.
• 38:45
  Philip Pape: Little things like that, and so I've also tried to incorporate that.
• 38:47
  Philip Pape: But I've also been accused, like you said, of saying well, we're going to make this a lot easier with flexible dieting.
• 38:52
  Philip Pape: That's not really the framing we necessarily want for it.
• 38:54
  Philip Pape: It's more of we're going to take a different approach.
• 38:57
  Philip Pape: You know, that actually gets you the results effectively and efficiently.
• 38:59
  Philip Pape: It may be hard, it may require effort, but the effort is going to pay off.
• 39:02
  Philip Pape: Like the goal is the effort pays off.
• 39:04
  Philip Pape: We don't want to spin our wheels and like do a lot of effort for nothing.
• 39:07
  Philip Pape: However, even when something fails, you still learn from it, which is important.
• 39:11
  Philip Pape: Yeah, so tell us about.
• 39:13
  Philip Pape: Let's get back to hybrid training a little bit.
• 39:18
  Philip Pape: If someone's listening and saying, okay, I want to incorporate some of this.
• 39:20
  Philip Pape: I want to be a badass like Cody and get mental toughness through the physical side.
• 39:24
  Philip Pape: Maybe I'm already lifting weights, which most people are listening, are doing that.
• 39:28
  Philip Pape: Maybe they're working out four days a week.
• 39:29
  Philip Pape: They've got a little bit of time.
• 39:31
  Philip Pape: They want to do some more cardio.
• 39:32
  Philip Pape: Where should they start?
• 39:34
  Cody McBroom: Yeah, I think that I mean, let's start from ground zero, step count.
• 39:38
  Cody McBroom: I would literally approach it this way.
• 39:40
  Cody McBroom: If somebody came to me and they said that and I'm like cool, like let's look at your steps, and their steps were 2000 a day, I'm going to say, hey, you're like, you're sedentary, you know you're, you're going to be wrecked, like it's going to.
• 39:56
  Cody McBroom: Really, you're going to have so much soreness You're going to be.
• 39:57
  Cody McBroom: You know, and this is the big thing, right, this is a moment where we go screw it, choose hard, start with two miles every day, you know.
• 40:00
  Cody McBroom: Okay, then they're going to be so sore that they're going to be like screw this guy and screw choosing hard.
• 40:03
  Cody McBroom: So we want to leave a good impression.
• 40:04
  Cody McBroom: So I'm going to go hey, what's the lowest barrier to entry?
• 40:18
  Cody McBroom: That's going to One.
• 40:18
  Cody McBroom: It is going to challenge them, it's going to be harder, but it's also going to have an adaptation.
• 40:21
  Cody McBroom: You're stepping 2,000 steps?
• 40:22
  Cody McBroom: Cool, we're going to do 5,000.
• 40:23
  Cody McBroom: That's more than double what you're doing right now.
• 40:25
  Cody McBroom: I promise you, they're going to have to schedule time to either go on mini walks, they're going to have to first not hit 5,000 multiple days in a row to realize, holy shit, I got to figure this out and plan it and schedule it ahead.
• 40:36
  Cody McBroom: They might even have to schedule in some treadmill time and walk on the treadmill, but that's what I want.
• 40:43
  Cody McBroom: I want them to have to go out of their way and do something, because right now they're not doing it.
• 40:46
  Cody McBroom: So we start there.
• 40:46
  Cody McBroom: Let's say, somebody's like and this is very common in our industry already stepping 10,000 steps a day, already stepping 10,000 steps a day.
• 40:52
  Cody McBroom: They're intentional about it.
• 40:53
  Cody McBroom: They listen to podcasts like ours.
• 40:54
  Cody McBroom: They know what to do.
• 40:54
  Cody McBroom: They're doing some of that stuff.
• 40:55
  Cody McBroom: Well, this person I'm going to ask do you have any running experience?
• 40:59
  Cody McBroom: I have some clients that they want the cardiovascular benefits, they want the hybrid benefits.
• 41:04
  Cody McBroom: But you know and this isn't always an issue I've had multiple knee surgeries, but maybe their knee surgeries were worse, maybe they.
• 41:11
  Cody McBroom: You know, I luckily didn't have to do this, but, for example, I tore my meniscus multiple times and one of the times they told me we might just have to take it out.
• 41:17
  Cody McBroom: It's like it's just ripped shreds.
• 41:19
  Cody McBroom: We're probably gonna take it out.
• 41:20
  Cody McBroom: You'll have bone on bone Five years later.
• 41:21
  Cody McBroom: You'll get a knee replacement.
• 41:22
  Cody McBroom: Thankfully they salvaged it.
• 41:24
  Cody McBroom: But there are people where they just have to remove the meniscus is like a pad between two.
• 41:29
  Cody McBroom: It's just going to be bone on bone.
• 41:30
  Cody McBroom: That's going to hurt.
• 41:31
  Cody McBroom: Maybe they can't run.
• 41:33
  Cody McBroom: Okay, what can we do?
• 41:33
  Cody McBroom: Well, we can do the assault bike, we can do the sled, we can do these modalities that are non-eccentric, right.
• 41:40
  Cody McBroom: So non-load bearing on the joint, it's just a concentric contraction.
• 41:44
  Cody McBroom: So for people listening who don't know what that is, if you're doing a squat and you're going down that negative, that's eccentric.
• 41:49
  Cody McBroom: Concentric is the way up.
• 41:51
  Cody McBroom: Well, the eccentric is what's overloading the joints.
• 41:53
  Cody McBroom: More.
• 41:54
  Cody McBroom: So if we remove that, because every time you run, every step is eccentric loading on the joints, right.
• 42:00
  Cody McBroom: So we can remove that by doing-.
• 42:02
  Philip Pape: And it causes a lot of soreness too, is a good indication.
• 42:04
  Philip Pape: Bingo.
• 42:04
  Cody McBroom: Yeah, yep, more muscle damage.
• 42:06
  Cody McBroom: It's going to be more tension on the joint, the tendon ligament, all that.
• 42:08
  Cody McBroom: So we can remove that and do a sled, do a bike, do the road, do a bike, do the road, do stuff like that.
• 42:12
  Cody McBroom: That's just purely concentric.
• 42:13
  Cody McBroom: There is an eccentric movement but there's no load on that eccentric movement.
• 42:17
  Cody McBroom: You pull the sled by pushing your feet into the ground and stepping back and then it's no load.
• 42:22
  Cody McBroom: You reset your step right.
• 42:24
  Cody McBroom: So we do that.
• 42:25
  Cody McBroom: But we target the heart rate, we target the duration, we target the distance in meters, we target, whatever it is calories burned.
• 42:31
  Cody McBroom: That's still going to have the same exact benefits from an aerobic building perspective.
• 42:35
  Cody McBroom: And I want to make that clear because a lot of people don't get into this stuff because they hate running.
• 42:40
  Cody McBroom: I always hated running, but I own a sled and I have turf and I still made a point once a week still going to do some sled work.
• 42:46
  Cody McBroom: I did the very minimal because I don't enjoy conditioning.
• 42:49
  Cody McBroom: But I would still jump on the assault bike, I would still jump, even if it's high intensity, whatever.
• 42:52
  Cody McBroom: So doing something like that, one, two days a week, going from the step count to let's add one or two days.
• 42:59
  Cody McBroom: You're going to adapt quick, so maybe we add one day, then we add a second day.
• 43:01
  Cody McBroom: Then we either decide okay, you're lifting this is very common Four days a week, upper lower split.
• 43:06
  Cody McBroom: So we added one cardio.
• 43:08
  Cody McBroom: Now we add two, so you're doing six days a week of activity.
• 43:11
  Cody McBroom: Do you want to do two days?
• 43:13
  Cody McBroom: Or are you happy with this?
• 43:14
  Cody McBroom: And if they're happy with that, honestly we can A progress those two sessions by changing the tempo.
• 43:20
  Cody McBroom: So it's like hey, right now, this is a really easy way to do it.
• 43:23
  Cody McBroom: For running, let's say you're going to run 30 minutes, max distance in 30 minutes, but control your pace.
• 43:28
  Cody McBroom: You shouldn't be.
• 43:29
  Cody McBroom: This is aerobic.
• 43:30
  Cody McBroom: I want minute one to be the same pace and speed as minute 30, right, we're trying to sustain it.
• 43:35
  Cody McBroom: Most likely that's not going to happen because it's hard to pace it perfectly, but we're sustaining that pace, staying in, you know, let's say, 70% of max heart rate, kind of in that aerobic zone.
• 43:43
  Cody McBroom: Do that next week.
• 43:45
  Cody McBroom: We're going to say, hey, what was your like, how many miles did you get?
• 43:47
  Cody McBroom: Now we want to try to increase that.
• 43:49
  Cody McBroom: We either go 40 minutes, we get further distance, or we go, hey, increase your pace so you accomplish 2.5 miles instead of 2.2, whatever it is, and we can just progress to just like a linear periodization.
• 44:00
  Cody McBroom: We can't do that forever without adding more days of running, but we can progress it a little bit in that regard.
• 44:05
  Cody McBroom: Then maybe we do some tempo running.
• 44:07
  Cody McBroom: Hey, warm up with one mile, then you're going to increase your.
• 44:10
  Cody McBroom: This is exactly what I did today Warm up with a mile and then for 1.9 miles for me, but it could be a mile for somebody else increase your pace.
• 44:16
  Cody McBroom: So my half marathon pace is maybe a minute slower than what I'm running right now, but I'm only doing it for 1.9, right, and then we do a cool down, right.
• 44:25
  Cody McBroom: So there's ways to vary it.
• 44:27
  Cody McBroom: But truthfully, I think somebody could build up to two days a week and be totally fine there.
• 44:31
  Cody McBroom: If they desire doing more or running a half marathon or something, you should probably be running three to four days a week.
• 44:37
  Cody McBroom: But if you're just looking for hybrid benefits conditioning benefits that we've been talking about I see nothing wrong with doing these other models and a lot of times I recommend it because it's so much easier on joints that we're not going to worry about injuries or overuse injuries and just like really just breaking down tissue, tendons, ligaments, joints and causing pain, because we're doing these in safer modalities, if that makes sense.
• 44:59
  Philip Pape: Yeah, it makes total sense.
• 45:00
  Philip Pape: I like the application of form of progressive overload or understanding.
• 45:05
  Philip Pape: There's stress, recovery, adaptation there, even when it comes to cardio.
• 45:08
  Philip Pape: And so, wherever you are now, what can you do, both from a time perspective, but also from an ability perspective or any physical limitations you have?
• 45:16
  Philip Pape: There's no excuses, right, you can find something among all of those.
• 45:19
  Philip Pape: They even have, you know, for folks that have certain limb issues or disabilities, they have special, you know, different equipment for that.
• 45:26
  Philip Pape: Start with a step count, make a decent jump, that's, I'll call it, hard but achievable and then, if you're already doing that, add in one to two days of concentric, primarily tight movements.
• 45:38
  Philip Pape: You don't even have to run at all, which is great, cause a lot of people are like I don't want to do that.
• 45:42
  Philip Pape: Where does hit fit into this?
• 45:45
  Cody McBroom: Yeah, and I would definitely start by saying don't turn your weight sessions into a hit session.
• 45:52
  Cody McBroom: You know, I think there's probably people who I mean, I got this at the first one.
• 45:56
  Cody McBroom: I did like a hybrid Q and a and it was like what's the difference in hybrid training and CrossFit?
• 45:59
  Cody McBroom: It's like, well, crossfit's a sport, so there's one thing, but two, hybrid training is also not a circuit training class, so like that's not what we're talking about here.
• 46:07
  Cody McBroom: And hybrid is concurrent, which means we have one session that we are trying to accomplish a goal.
• 46:12
  Cody McBroom: Strength means we have one session that we are trying to accomplish a goal.
• 46:16
  Cody McBroom: Strength muscle, whatever it is, train for that.
• 46:17
  Cody McBroom: So do your leg press, do your squat, do your bench press, whatever.
• 46:19
  Cody McBroom: Take a long rest.
• 46:20
  Cody McBroom: There's times where you can superset things.
• 46:23
  Cody McBroom: I have a program I'm running right now and I do what's called strength circuits.
• 46:27
  Cody McBroom: I go from a trap bar deadlift to a barbell, bench press, to a row.
• 46:30
  Cody McBroom: Those are less fatiguing exercises, less demanding exercises metabolically, neurologically, mentally, everything.
• 46:37
  Cody McBroom: So it works Like if I was to do the bench press, the row and then try to do a tri-bar deadlift, probably hurt myself.
• 46:42
  Cody McBroom: There's an order and there is a very fast pace, but then I take a long rest afterwards and I'm actually what I'm trying to do is express strength while under fatigue, and I'm doing that intentionally because I'm training for high rocks and I got to be able to do these exercises while I'm metabolically fatigued.
• 46:55
  Cody McBroom: But for most people, like we're training like a bodybuilder and then at another time of day you're going and running right, so we separate them completely.
• 47:03
  Cody McBroom: As far as HIIT goes, I think that personally, I'm just not a huge fan of HIIT.
• 47:08
  Cody McBroom: To be honest with you.
• 47:08
  Cody McBroom: I think that it was great.
• 47:10
  Cody McBroom: When it first came out, it seemed like it was this thing that was better than low intensity cardio.
• 47:15
  Cody McBroom: I would disagree.
• 47:16
  Cody McBroom: I think that low intensity cardio is I shouldn't say much better.
• 47:19
  Cody McBroom: They both are going to give you cardiovascular benefits, so they're obviously great.
• 47:21
  Cody McBroom: But I think that you're going to get more health and aerobic benefits, I would imagine, from low intensity cardio.
• 47:28
  Cody McBroom: Most research shows how beneficial staying in that sustained aerobic zone is.
• 47:32
  Cody McBroom: The nice thing about HIIT is that you can get some of those benefits still, obviously, and it's way shorter.
• 47:38
  Cody McBroom: So if somebody, I would say the best time to use that is for somebody who wants to lose fat and they're not experiencing diet fatigue.
• 47:45
  Cody McBroom: So, for example, somebody is we're starting the diet this week, we can add in a day or two of HIIT cardio and it's 10 to 20 minutes total.
• 47:52
  Cody McBroom: It is very high intensity but it's short enough, it's not overly fatiguing and you haven't been in the diet long enough that you're really having trouble recovering because your lack of calories coming in.
• 48:02
  Cody McBroom: Which, if somebody is on week eight of consistent dieting and we're like now, we should add HIIT cardio, maybe not, because they're already fatigued and they're probably already a little bit tired.
• 48:12
  Cody McBroom: Let's just increase their step count or program low-intensity cardio and just walk on an inclined treadmill.
• 48:16
  Cody McBroom: You know, I think that's probably going to be your better bet.
• 48:19
  Cody McBroom: And if we really like get into the science of it too, I would venture out to say high-intensity intervals are so similar to strength training If you're training with hard intensity, that you're not getting the variability of training different energy systems.
• 48:32
  Cody McBroom: So when I go in the gym, if I do a heavy back squat for five reps, I'm probably squatting for 10 to 20 seconds, I don't know, and then I'm going to take a few minute rest.
• 48:39
  Cody McBroom: So my heart rate goes through the roof.
• 48:40
  Cody McBroom: Heavy load, a lot of tension, a lot of focus and then I'm going to chill and I'm going to bring my heart rate down, all those things down, and then I do it again for four sets.
• 48:49
  Cody McBroom: Well, technically, you know, and so I would rather do a cardio modality that is going to produce a different benefit rather than just doing the same one, especially because anaerobic training, which is this high intensity model and what the energy system you're going to train during strength training, it is more fatiguing, especially on the nervous system right.
• 49:09
  Cody McBroom: And so to me, I'm like, if we're trying to optimize recovery, manage stress, strictly, burn calories, while also just trying to do enough variety with our training, that we're training different systems in the body.
• 49:19
  Cody McBroom: I would say that the best that is going to be low intensity.
• 49:23
  Philip Pape: As always, I have like 20 takeaways from everything you say, so I'm going to break it down to just like three that really stick out for the listener.
• 49:29
  Philip Pape: The first is even though you're adding in cardio, there's a smart way to program it.
• 49:33
  Philip Pape: We have to think of it as programming still, and I know you have some programs in your app for that.
• 49:41
  Philip Pape: Cody didn't ask me to promote that, I just know he does, because it's true.
• 49:43
  Philip Pape: You have to say do I want to be fatigued and then lift?
• 49:44
  Philip Pape: Or, most likely, do I want to lift fresh and then do my cardio later?
• 49:49
  Philip Pape: For example, also, I don't know if you saw, literally this week, mass reviewed a study from this year that compared the different forms of cardio and found that volume was the most important indicator of cardiovascular health.
• 50:01
  Philip Pape: It wasn't the modality which supports what you're saying.
• 50:04
  Philip Pape: You don't have to do HIIT.
• 50:05
  Philip Pape: You don't have to do any particular one, you can choose the one that makes sense.
• 50:08
  Philip Pape: And then the idea of HIIT as kind of like strength training in terms of the energy system.
• 50:14
  Philip Pape: I like that one a lot.
• 50:16
  Philip Pape: I don't think we've heard that often.
• 50:17
  Philip Pape: It checks out right, like when you do a heavy deadlift, my heart rate goes up 160, you know, and I'm only doing it for a few seconds, but it reminds me of box jump, burpee days, which I will never do again from CrossFit.
• 50:29
  Cody McBroom: Those are pretty cool.
• 50:30
  Cody McBroom: Yeah, I want to add man, because it is funny that not that many people talk about that, and I'll give credit where credit's due.
• 50:40
  Cody McBroom: I remember this might've been so long ago that I was literally talking to him because he coached me before he became a YouTuber.
• 50:42
  Cody McBroom: Jeff Nippert said it to me and I was like, oh, that makes sense.
• 50:44
  Cody McBroom: That really clicked with me.
• 50:45
  Cody McBroom: But even if you look at like and, by the way, I haven't, I actually have the email marked on red for mass, I'm excited about that.
• 50:53
  Cody McBroom: I'm going to read it now.
• 50:54
  Cody McBroom: I mean, I always read it, but when I see it I'm like, ah, I'm saving that for this weekend.
• 50:56
  Cody McBroom: But that's how nerdy I am with my time.
• 50:59
  Cody McBroom: But the cardio thing, it's like, well, when we think of people who are arguing about like that's not real hit cardio and all that stuff, what do they talk about?
• 51:07
  Cody McBroom: They talk about sprint.
• 51:08
  Cody McBroom: Okay, well, what does everybody else talk about?
• 51:10
  Cody McBroom: Sprinting?
• 51:11
  Cody McBroom: Is your anaerobic threshold right?
• 51:13
  Cody McBroom: Your anaerobic energy system, they argue, these high intensity models that are going beyond, like, the 10 to 15 second mark.
• 51:18
  Cody McBroom: Why?
• 51:19
  Cody McBroom: Because you stop being able to rely on that anaerobic energy system.
• 51:24
  Cody McBroom: The creatine phosphate out about, you know?
• 51:26
  Cody McBroom: I think it literally is like eight to 12 seconds, but let's say 10 to 15, just for easy numbers.
• 51:29
  Cody McBroom: Well, if we're looking at it like that, that's I mean that sprint is explosive, it's powerful.
• 51:34
  Cody McBroom: Get your heart rate up, then you take a long break.
• 51:36
  Cody McBroom: If that's true high intensity, that is very, very similar to strength training, very, very similar to lifting.
• 51:39
  Cody McBroom: And if it's not similar to lifting to you, then you're probably not training hard enough.
• 51:43
  Cody McBroom: Honestly, because you can get that way.
• 51:45
  Cody McBroom: You're just doing dumbbell bench press.
• 51:46
  Cody McBroom: If you're really pushing it, you should be like kind of gassed, you know, yeah, I mean that's hard training.
• 51:55
  Philip Pape: It's true, it does build work capacity.
• 51:56
  Philip Pape: I mean, you know, if I start working with a client who's got a lot of weight to lose and we're training and walking at the same time, the lifting sessions are often harder than you know, than the cardio for the heart health, and so there's a reason for that, we have to acknowledge.
• 52:08
  Philip Pape: And you look at, like Westside, they have the dynamic days in there, man just doing sets of you know doing 10 sets in a row a 30 second rest of a bench press, You'll see that that is also a form of cardio when you do it, man.
• 52:23
  Philip Pape: So it's kind of fun, because then you know you, you have this spectrum of okay, how much of this versus that do I want in there?
• 52:28
  Philip Pape: And, like Cody you were saying, it really depends on your goals.
• 52:31
  Philip Pape: And if you want to go to an extreme, like I want to be a power lifter or I want to do high rocks, you're going to have to, like, make those trade-offs.
• 52:37
  Philip Pape: But you can kind of have it all at some level.
• 52:40
  Cody McBroom: That's it.
• 52:41
  Cody McBroom: You know and I think this will really speak to listeners too I haven't said this way, but this makes a lot of sense because I've noticed this too.
• 52:46
  Cody McBroom: But there's a difference between, like, if you go out on a run by yourself and you're like really gassed like halfway through, Okay, you do a workout by yourself and it really gets you.
• 52:56
  Cody McBroom: Okay.
• 52:56
  Cody McBroom: If you go golfing and you're the guy at the 18th hole that calves are killing them, You're tired, You're sweating, whatever.
• 53:02
  Cody McBroom: That's different.
• 53:03
  Cody McBroom: That doesn't feel good.
• 53:04
  Cody McBroom: You go on a hike and you're that person that doesn't feel good.
• 53:06
  Cody McBroom: You want to run with multiple people.
• 53:08
  Cody McBroom: That doesn't feel good.
• 53:09
  Cody McBroom: I mean, name anything.
• 53:09
  Cody McBroom: You never want to be the person who is tired first.
• 53:13
  Cody McBroom: Right, and it's not to like shit on people who get to that place.
• 53:17
  Cody McBroom: Like I get it.
• 53:17
  Cody McBroom: In fact, I've been there.
• 53:18
  Cody McBroom: I grew up the chubby kid that's.
• 53:19
  Cody McBroom: I was that guy in my group of friends my entire life.
• 53:22
  Cody McBroom: So I get it.
• 53:22
  Cody McBroom: But I have golfed multiple times since I started running.
• 53:26
  Cody McBroom: I have gone in like this sounds crazy, but like mowing the lawn for me.
• 53:31
  Cody McBroom: I live on a half acre and I push that thing because I am stubborn, I want to and I'm like I'm doing it, it's easier.
• 53:37
  Cody McBroom: Golfing it's easier.
• 53:39
  Cody McBroom: I've gone on a couple of runs with friends and we'll go consistently and I've watched myself just get better.
• 53:45
  Cody McBroom: And then this last time we ran together and I was talking the whole time they didn't say a word.
• 53:48
  Cody McBroom: Why?
• 53:49
  Cody McBroom: Because I was feeling good.
• 53:50
  Cody McBroom: I was feeling good, I was here to chat, and so I started picking up on that and so for people listening, like there's an aspect of doing some cardio and some of this fitness stuff where you don't have to do a ton, right, but if you do just a little bit of this style of training, you push yourself, it will make all the other things way easier.
• 54:05
  Cody McBroom: And then you're the person in the group that is just like crushing it and feeling good and then afterwards it doesn't need Advil and her nap, You're good.
• 54:12
  Cody McBroom: I noticed that too.
• 54:12
  Cody McBroom: We went to Disneyland and I never forget because we had all of us were in the cul-de-sac, all the parents, and they were like we got back and they were like, oh, I remember last year when I went to Disneyland, I was taking like six or seven Advil a day, Like I did.
• 54:29
  Cody McBroom: We went back and rested in the middle of the day.
• 54:30
  Cody McBroom: I was like I didn moving.
• 54:31
  Cody McBroom: I paid for Disneyland.
• 54:32
  Cody McBroom: We're going, we're doing the whole thing Like we're walking, you know.
• 54:34
  Cody McBroom: But it made me reflect on it.
• 54:37
  Cody McBroom: I'm like that's why we're fit Right.
• 54:39
  Cody McBroom: It's not just about the half marathon 100%, man, 100%.
• 54:42
  Philip Pape: I always joke.
• 54:43
  Philip Pape: I want to be deadlifting when I'm 95.
• 54:45
  Philip Pape: And like that's how I go out.
• 54:46
  Philip Pape: You know what I mean?
• 54:46
  Philip Pape: Just functional to the end.
• 54:48
  Philip Pape: You never want to be the person who gets tired first, awesome.
• 54:52
  Philip Pape: So I will leave it at that, but I did want to give you a chance to bring up anything else that I didn't ask you, that you wanted to cover.
• 55:05
  Cody McBroom: Yeah, man, no, really, just honestly, for everybody listening, just choose hard.
• 55:06
  Cody McBroom: Like it can be the simplest things, you know.
• 55:07
  Cody McBroom: I actually just talked to a client about this yesterday because he was, I think, applying pressure to himself to do more and I said, hey, doing more isn't always choosing hard.
• 55:14
  Cody McBroom: Sometimes you know you're down a lot of weight and we're still pushing, like you're already choosing hard, you're already doing more.
• 55:19
  Cody McBroom: But like, choosing hard is the little things, it's the dog and playing with them, it's the kid, it's the friends, it's, you know, he's a trainer.
• 55:26
  Cody McBroom: So it's like it's your clients who you need to be enthusiastic with during the session, where you're kind of tired because you're dieting and you're down 30 pounds, so like you're fatigued.
• 55:32
  Cody McBroom: I get it, choose hard, you know.
• 55:34
  Cody McBroom: And so, for everybody listening, just think about the.
• 55:36
  Cody McBroom: I think the best analogy if you've watched the matrix and if you haven't start there, go watch the matrix.
• 55:40
  Cody McBroom: But the red pill and blue pill, like just start kind of gamifying and think of that Cause.
• 55:49
  Cody McBroom: I just think that, you know, as cheesy as it own lives, everybody would be happier.
• 55:54
  Philip Pape: Cool man.
• 55:54
  Philip Pape: So three takeaways First, definitely watch the Matrix if you haven't yet.
• 55:57
  Philip Pape: Guys, if you're listening to this, I grew up the night.
• 55:59
  Philip Pape: I'm a child of the 80s, so Matrix in the 90s was awesome.
• 56:02
  Philip Pape: And then, second thing, make sure to use the safety on your lawnmower if you're going to book it, like Cody's doing.
• 56:08
  Philip Pape: And then, number three, choose hard, and hard is sometimes the little thing.
• 56:12
  Philip Pape: So that is awesome, cody, I think people know where to find you.
• 56:15
  Philip Pape: But just in case, where can they find you?
• 56:17
  Philip Pape: Where can they look you up?
• 56:18
  Cody McBroom: Yeah, Cody McBroom on Instagram podcast is tailored life podcast, which hitting episode a thousand and we're making some big changes.
• 56:27
  Cody McBroom: So we're going to be rebranding and doing some cool things soon.
• 56:29
  Cody McBroom: And then Taylor coaching method is my company.
• 56:31
  Cody McBroom: So if you Google my name or Taylor Coaching Method, all that stuff pops up.
• 56:34
  Cody McBroom: I'm rolling one.
• 56:35
  Philip Pape: And congrats on a thousand episodes coming up.
• 56:37
  Philip Pape: That's huge.
• 56:37
  Philip Pape: I know what it takes, speaking of putting in the reps, and I'm sure you've chosen a lot of hard things along the way to make that happen.
• 56:42
  Philip Pape: Yeah, absolutely All right, man.
• 56:44
  Philip Pape: Thanks for coming on.
• 56:45
  Philip Pape: It was a pleasure, as always.