Latest / Political Capital with Rob Shaw / Political Capital 198 - Premier's "lines in the sand" on reconciliation, Conservative rebounding after Rustad departure

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Political Capital 198 - Premier's "lines in the sand" on reconciliation, Conservative rebounding after Rustad departure · Political Capital with Rob Shaw

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Check podcasts. Hey everyone, and welcome to Political Capital, your
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: source for all the latest and the VC politics. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Rob Shaw, and you can tell because of
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: the flags behind me. I am here at the Legislature
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: this week recording the show. One of the last weeks
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: of sort of politics occurring here, the Premier doing his
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: year end interviews, amongst other things. That has been a
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: big week on the reconciliation front. Another major court ruling
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: disrupting the government's agenda, the Premier ramping up his response
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: to that, and the BC Conservatives seeing a bit of
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a bump one week after ousting leader John Rustad. We're
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: going to bring in the pod squad to break all
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: of that down. Jeff Ferrier and Jillian Oliver are here.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Ali is off this week. Before we start here, I
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: just want to play a quick clip of the Premier
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: speaking at the BC Chamber of Commerce in Vancouver on Wednesday.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: We have two lines in the sand. First, any reconciliation
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: work by government by the courts has to respect private properties,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: period private fee, simple property, whether it's a family home
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: or an industrial park owned by a business. We have
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: to go to the wall to defend those private properties.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: And that is the end of the story.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: So that is the premier talking about lines in the sand,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: his strongest language yet on reconciliation, both because of a
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: new Court of Appeal ruling that declares the government's Declaration
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: on the Rights of Indigenous People's law can be used
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: to strike down other provincial laws, opening up the potential
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: for a whole bunch of court challenges and laws being
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: sent back to the legislature, and the Premier responding to
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: that with kind of language we haven't seen him use before. Jeff,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: lines in the sand, the potential for a toxic reaction
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: to reconciliation in general. What did you think of how
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: he responded to this court challenge, Well.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: I think the government realizes that it's facing a reconciliation
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: court crisis. Here it's a clear escalation of the language
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: on the premier's part.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Here.
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  Speaker 4: We've seen them for weeks trying to reassure the public
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: that nothing's changed, that everything's okay, that you know, the
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: government's got this all handled, and here we see him
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: talking about lines in the sand, about lawyers run a mock.
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, judges run a mock. Lawyers, Well, judges used
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: to be lawyers, so we can blame them all for this.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: Private property rights at risk endangered because of judicial activism,
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: laws to be changed by judges, not legislators, and people
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: are paying attention to this in ways that they haven't
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: been paying attention in the past to these issues. I've
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: had people come up to me a political asking about
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: what does this all mean, expressing their concerns. So this
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: is an escalation of language by the premier in the
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: face of a public that is really tuned in and
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: really concerned about what this means for them.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Julian, do you think it hit the right mark that escalation?
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Was it the right tone? Did you get the sense
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: that that was what the public wanted to hear?
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: I think so. I think, like Jeff said, the premier
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: is trying to show that this is the work of
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: the courts and not his government at a time when
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: the opposition is trying to put the blame onto him.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: I also think that it is fair to see this
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: as a little bit of judicial overreach. The reason why
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: we have legislators make the laws is because they're accountable
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: to the public. It's the court's rule to interpret them,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: and I think a lot of people were surprised by
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: how far this ruling went. It does seem like they
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: are going to be able to resolve it within legislation,
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  Speaker 3: but we also need the federal government to step up
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: and do that too, to clarify this so that we
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: can get back to having the legislature be accountable for
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: what is a very big task of implementing UNDROP in
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: the way that it was intended.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Back when the government did, you know, move towards implementing
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: undripped through this drip a law, it did say very
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  Speaker 1: clearly in twenty nineteen this law should not be used
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: by the courts to strike down other laws. And you're right,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Jillian that the courts have done that anyways in the
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: premiere saying that's not their job, that's the job of
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: MLA's at the legislature. But it's interesting, Jeff, like there's
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: a very clear proposition for voters for British Columbians on
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: this issue. The Conservatives coming out saying just repeal DRIPPA.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: It's having all sorts of unintended consequences. This isn't the
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: direction we should be going. It's not working, and the
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: government coming back with well, no, we can amend you know,
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  Speaker 1: clause whatever of the Interpretation Act to provide more judicial
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  Speaker 1: discretion to the like that prospect. Do you think the
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: government's messaging versus the Conservative messaging, what do you make
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  Speaker 1: of that?
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  Speaker 4: The Conservative messaging is clear, direct, simple, easy to understand,
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: and in that respect it's a strong volley by them.
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  Speaker 4: With in the first week of Trevor Halford being the
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: interim leader. I think the government position of fix it,
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: don't nix it over the long term, I think is
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: probably the more responsible approach. Look, I think British Columbians
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: are fair minded people. They want to see reconciliation advance.
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  Speaker 4: I think they're concerned though about the pace and broad
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: reach of it and this lack of control. I don't
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  Speaker 4: think you fix that by just getting rid of the law.
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: I think you have to go into the legislation and
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  Speaker 4: make it clear to the judges and courts that it
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  Speaker 4: means what it means and not what they suggest.
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  Speaker 1: That it means. Jillian, though, it feels like maybe the
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  Speaker 1: public trust that the government and the Premier was the
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Attorney General through all of this know what they're doing
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: on the file in the sense that it's how it's
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  Speaker 1: going to actually result in an outcome that people can
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: kind of see like maybe that is waning. Do you
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  Speaker 1: think proposing to go back to the legislature and fix
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  Speaker 1: the thing that you originally put in that has gone
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  Speaker 1: completely sideways on you, versus just getting rid of it
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: and starting over. What are the merits of both of
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: those pitches to people? Do you think?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's a really challenging thing to message.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: These court decisions are so long, so complicated, really really
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: challenging to understand. I think that we need to talk
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: about and remember is that just getting rid of the
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: law doesn't really resolve the problem in terms of creating
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: more certainty, because a lot of these rights of aboriginal
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: title and of the duty to consult are actually constitutionally protected,
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: and DRIP really just implements was intended to just implement
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: rights that already exist. And if we get rid of
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: it and don't move forward with that implementation, we just
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: go back to a situation where we're litigating with First
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: Nation after projects are already underway, and that creates a
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: lot of uncertainty, a lot of extra costs, and what
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: we really have only one path forward, which is to
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: clarify how to negotiate and how to really move towards
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: First Nations partnerships. I think the Conservatives know this. That's
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: why we've heard pure Palyev and John Restat talk about
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: how partnerships with First Nations are the way forward on
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: resource projects. And I think that that is revealing that
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: the Conservatives are trying to use this as a political
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  Speaker 3: cudgel while probably knowing that it's not the right way
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  Speaker 3: forward from a policy standpoint.
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  Speaker 1: So what happens then if and we haven't seen it yet,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: but what happens if we do end up in a
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: sort of toxic situation where the public polling indicates people
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: are just fed up with this, They're worried about it,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: they don't want government to keep going down this path.
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  Speaker 1: Does the government have to then repeal Drippa? Do you think,
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  Speaker 1: Jeff like it? Is there a public pressure that would
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: force the government to do a different approach or is
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the government going to try and hold this line and
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: explain to people why it's needed, even if there's sort
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: of increasingly skeptical about it.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the government needs to hold the line.
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  Speaker 4: I think when crisis strikes, opportunity can knock at the door,
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  Speaker 4: and in this case, here's an opportunity for the premiere
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  Speaker 4: to come in and be seen as the person fixing it.
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  Speaker 4: I know that the opposition will say that they're the
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: ones who raised it first, that there will be critics
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: who will say they're the ones who raised it first.
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  Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, people will judge
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  Speaker 4: the government on did they fix this problem? Did they
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  Speaker 4: get us to the right space. I think the danger
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  Speaker 4: of going and repealing Drippa is what it would do
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  Speaker 4: to the relationship between First Nations with whom b C
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: in the private sector are trying to move forward billions
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: and billions of dollars of major projects. And if you
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: stop talking with them, if you stop consulting with them,
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: if you make everything go through the courts to make
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: a decision, none of that investments is going to happen.
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  Speaker 4: And we're going to find ourselves in an economic situation
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  Speaker 4: where we're really against the law.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Julian, I'm only asking it, I
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: guess because sometimes the pressure on the carbon tax, on
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: safe supply, on other government initiatives d KRIM has forced
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: the NDP to abandon the nuanced position that they tried
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: to hold for the kind of public wave of sentiment
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  Speaker 1: of Okay, fine, didn't work, We're going to get rid
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  Speaker 1: of it sort of thing. Is that a potential on
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  Speaker 1: a file as sensitive as this, do you think?
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  Speaker 4: Well?
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  Speaker 3: Certainly. I think the Conservators are going to keep pushing
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: on it, and they've got a leadership race coming up.
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  Speaker 3: I think that'll only turn up the dial from some
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: of the candidates as they look to differentiate themselves. And
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: then of course we have one VC as well on
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: the even more inflammatory side. But I agree with Jeff
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: they have to see it through because I think it's
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: a bit different from the carbon tax just because of
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: the legal reality. If we get rid of under it,
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: we're going to be in an even more litigious situation
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  Speaker 3: with First Nations At a time where the government's priority
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  Speaker 3: is getting these projects to fruition. I think their only
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: forward is to try to resolve this uncertain to you
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: with UNDRIP as quickly as possible in the legislature and
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: putting pressure on the FEDS to do things on their
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: level as well, and then try to get projects forward
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: ahead of the next election so that they can show
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: that they've taken action and sort of done this in
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  Speaker 3: a way that creates more certainty and creates more confidence
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  Speaker 3: that everybody wants to see.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, we'll leave it there, we'll go to a break.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: When we come back, we're going to talk a bit
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: about the continued buzz of an early provincial election. Kick
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: that issue around coming up right after this.
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: British Columbians do not want an election. They want a
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: government that is focused on what their needs are, and
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: that's where we're going to stay focused. We're going to
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: continue to do our work for British Columbians. We do
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: not want an election, but we are ready for one.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Well that was a Premium actually from last week saying
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: he does not want an early election, but he is
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: ready for one. Jeff. At the sidelines of the BC
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Chamber event this week, the buzz was all we're going
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: to have an early election? Is the premier going to
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: look at the pressures under on issues like reconciliation and
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: realize that now is the time to go, when the
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: BC Conservatives don't have a leader, when things could get
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: more difficult and worse, this is the best last moment
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: for the premiere to go early. I'm sure you heard
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the same thing. What do you think is going to
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: happen there?
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: I don't think there's going to be an election call.
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: I think British Columbians don't want it. The government doesn't
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: want it. They have a majority that they can work with.
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: Most of the folks I talked to are worried about
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: can they get all their Christmas shopping done before December
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: the twenty fifth. I think this is politicians and political
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: elites talking shooting the breeze. But I think the political
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: reality is who want another election so soon after the
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: last one when there's a workable government in place and
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: nothing but risk for the government to go the public
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: at a time when on a whole bunch of issues
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: it's facing challenges, whether that's health care or public safety
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: or the economy.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Did you call me a political elite? Are we the
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: political No?
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: You were hearing it. You were hearing it, Premier Premier Shaw.
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: I don't for the folks on the podcast who can't
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: see this. He's in the legislator legislative press gallery with
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: the blue those flags.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: You can tell him serious because of.
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: The flag flags, So it looks he looks like the
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: premier political elite.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: That's true. Okay, what do you think, Jillian, any any possibility?
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Any you know if you're giving advice to the premier
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: at this point, and I'm sure lots of people are like,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: does it make sense to kind of look at this window? Seriously?
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: I think I would be surprised to see him do
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: it when the Conservatives have an interim leader. I think
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: it would look very nakedly opportunistic and really erode any
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: trust that voters have in the premier to be a
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: serious leader, which is I think what most will want
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: right now. When we had our last politically opportunistic snap election,
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Premier Horgan did it six days after Sonia first Ando
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: became Green leader. I think soon after a new Conservative
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: leader comes in is more likely if we get an
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: election outside of the scheduled window. That's because that enables
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: the government to go to the polls at a time
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: when the Conservatives are still kind of maybe sore from
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: potential divisions during the race, and the new leader hasn't
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: had a chance to really unite the party and define themselves.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: So I think that could be a possibility. We still
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: don't know the timeline for that race, but I think
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: we're probably not going to have one until that wraps up.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: But how do we reconcile back to you, Jeff, reconcile
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: this with Ebee continuing to talk about it in the
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: form of confidence votes. I mean, he declared several bills
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: this session matters of confidence when they didn't have to
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: be almost lost one of them due to an MLA
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: who couldn't get on the vote. Why does he keep
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: doing that? If the calculus in his office is that
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: we don't need we shouldn't be going to an early election,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: what message is he trying to send with that? And
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: is he just playing a big game at chicken by
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: continuing to put that out on the floor with a
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: one seat majority, he knows he has on matters that
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: don't actually need to be confidence votes.
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: Well, in fairness, some of his MLAs have had some
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: problems with their technical equipment, their computers being able to
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: log in to do their remote voting, So maybe it's
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: a message to them to log in a half hour
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: before the vote and have everything working so that they
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: can vote against an election. Look, I think actually it's
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: he wants to project strength at a time when he
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: has a precarious stable but you know, very very slim majority.
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: It's a way of positioning himself as the boss. It's
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: a way of positioning the government has been in control,
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: that the opposition is the opposition and the government's the government.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: So I think that's why it does it.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Julian, Like, one of the bills
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: was the North Coast Transmission Line, and I sort of
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: imagined a multiverse where that failed, and we're heading to
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: an election on a transmission line that most people in
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Metro Vancouver couldn't find on a map that won't be
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: done until twenty thirty four, and I just thought, I'm
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: not sure that can't possibly be what the new Democrats
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: actually want, and yet they raise that as a possibility
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: and Premier is like, I'll take that to the polls.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: Well, I think first they would have been happy to
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: go to the polls when John Rastad was still leader,
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: and he only stepped down last week, so a lot
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: of those votes all came before he stepped down. I
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: agree with Jeff. I think it is sort of a
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: way of projecting strength and also just of putting a
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: spotlight on the things that the premier wants to put
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: spotlights on. Like you said, people hadn't really heard of
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: the North Coast Transmission Line. Government thinks it's really really important.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: They want to show that they're taking action to build
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: and have economic stimulus. I think it's sort of a
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: way of turning up the heat on those issues that
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: might otherwise kind of go unnoticed by the public.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we will see. I mean, there is an
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: actual confidence vote on the budget which is theoretically in February,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: and the throne speech, although those votes can get pushed
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: until the end of the spring. So I'm sure the
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: rhetoric is going to wrap up the speculation as we
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: head into the kind of April ish time of the
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: of the year of we'll be back talking about, well,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: probably in the meantime too, speculation on an early election.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: Everyone, there's going to be If there's going to be
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: an election, it was going to be on the Miscellaneous
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: Statutes Amendment Act. That was the real you know, the
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: transmission line is pretty electrifying, but it's going to be
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: legislation like that.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: That really Yes, Well, I've seen weirder things happen in politics. Anyways,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: let's leave that topic there. We're gonna take a quick break.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: We'll come back talking a bit about the BC Conservatives
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: jumping back into the game after the departure of John
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Russtad coming up after this. That's a photo you see
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: there of intern BC Conservative leader Trevor Halford and Federal
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Conservative leader Pierre Polyiev meeting in Ottawa after Halford had
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: a conversation, but mister Polyev was encouraged to come out
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: and so he hopped on a plane, went out to Ottawa,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: met at the House of Commons and tried to mend
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: relationships between the Federal Conservatives and the BC Conservatives. Not
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: technically the same party ish although they look identical. And anyways,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: apparently that relationship had hit the rocks under the end
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: of John Rustad. At the same time, the Conservatives saying
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: they raised more money in the week that Rustad has
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: left this last week than they did in the entire
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: month of November. For a party that's broke, that is
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: a big deal for them. Jillian, those two signs very early.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: But what do you think of the strategy and the
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: fundraising numbers there?
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we had heard in the run up to
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: rusted resigning that business leaders were threatening to withhold donations,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: so it kind of makes sense that there was a
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: flood after he left as a sort of reward for
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: doing their bidding, which is you know is what it is.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: But you know, I think I think it shows that
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: it was the right move for the party. It's time
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: for them to turn a new page. Rest Dans leadership
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: was untenable. We talked about for the last couple several months,
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: I guess, and now it's time for them to start over.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: I think it's though, it's just a little injection showing
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: that the party is moving in another direction. We still
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: don't know where that is. And I think leadership races
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: can bring in lots of money. They can also be divisive.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: They're also really expensive. There's still so much unanswered about
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: where this is headed. We're still in very early days.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the rules of the race will determine a lot
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: of cases. You know, who wants to come in and
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: how expensive it's going to be to pay to play, Jeff,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: those two things that well. First off, what do you
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: think of the intern leader going to Odawa?
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: I think there's two miscalculations that were made. First, can
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: we talk about that photo. Yeah, for folks on the
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: podcast and hopeful folks on TV, you've seen this, but
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: you have Polyievis there standing with his legs apart, like
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: he's standing on the outer edges of a twister board,
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: staring straight into the camera away from Rustad and this
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: stark light that makes it look like it's a dystopian,
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: a science fiction movie, and you have Halford holding onto
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: his hand desperately like he's trying to keep POLLI ever
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: from lying up into the air in a hot air balloon.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: The photo could have been better executed. I think the
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: Polsy miscalculation is that in British Columbia, the Free enterprise
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: vote wins when federal Liberals and federal Conservatives vote together,
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: and by going to Pollievre and having that picture taken,
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: he's Halford and the Conservatives are saying to the folks
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: who voted for the twenty federal Liberals versus the nineteen
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: fed Conservatives, you should go vote for the NDP because
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: we're with this sworn enemy of the people you elected
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: to represent you in the legislature. And I think that
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: was ut. Putting the conflict to rest was good, but
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: it is going to be fraught with challenge.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: But he couldn't have gone and met with Carney like
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: his base. The Conservative Party would have just lost their minds,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: wouldn't they.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: I'd be surprised if you would meet with him.
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: In the same but in the same way that that
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: the Liberals would lose their mind. Are losing their mind
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: right now about Halford and Poeev getting together.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I guess that's true. I mean you do
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: have a point there that that and and in a
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: lot of cases the federal Liberals have just moved to
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: the NDP, which is a big source of strength for
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: the provincial ENDP as well in this province. That we're
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: almost out of time here with just note that there
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: have been some names on leadership speculation Harmon Banngu and
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: MLA for the Conservatives mentioning he will run if Aaron
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Gunn in North Island, Conservative MP doesn't run. Gun says
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: he's thinking about it. By Christmas. Carolyn Elliott has a
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: website out saying, you know, draft me into the movement.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Carolyn Finley, former MP and Cabinet minister from Surrey, saying
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: also having a draft me website out, there's lots of
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: people kicking the tires. I guess just thirty seconds here,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: that's a pretty good sign. Gillian.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. I mean, it's a new party, so
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: there's lots of opportunity to take it in lots of directions.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, people also have their own reasons for running.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Carolyn Finley lost her seat, that she's looking.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: For something to do.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I think it shows it's probably going to
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: be a crowded field and an exciting race for them.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Jeff five seconds.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: Chaos, all right, that's what that's what I'm hoping to
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: see from this race. Chaos.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, all right, thanks to both of you
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: for walking us through it this week. Thank you for
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: watching and listening. Make sure you subscribe to the audio podcast.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: We're going to be on a break now for Christmas holidays,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: but we'll be back in January. Happy holiday day to
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: you and your loved ones. In a great new year.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: We will see you in twenty twenty six.