Latest / Off The Shelf With Phil and Dave- A Movie Review Podcast / 1998's Rounders

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1998's Rounders · Off The Shelf With Phil and Dave- A Movie Review Podcast

• 0:01
  Hello and welcome to Off the Shelf with Phil and Dave, the
• 0:06
  movie talk show where each week one of us takes the movie off
• 0:08
  our shelf, presents it to the other for discussion.
• 0:14
  This week we have coming off Phillips Shelf 1998 Rounders
• 0:19
  directed by John Dahl. Tell me Phillip, why is this
• 0:22
  single word, plural 2 syllable movie on your shelf?
• 0:28
  Those are all. True things, Yeah, absolutely.
• 0:30
  I've got so many. I'm trying to remember exactly
• 0:32
  why. This particular too.
• 0:34
  So why this one? Yeah, that's the question.
• 0:37
  I have a weird relationship with this movie, Dave, I have to tell
• 0:39
  you. You do I.
• 0:43
  Equal parts love and hate this movie.
• 0:47
  It's a movie I I really didn't like when I first saw it.
• 0:50
  Somehow lingered in the back of my brain.
• 0:52
  I bet I made a comeback. Uh-huh.
• 0:55
  I went all in on it, but busted out some.
• 0:59
  So it's really gone through a lot of permutations, unlike
• 1:03
  Inception, which I'd loved for all of that time.
• 1:06
  One random Sunday afternoon, yeah, kind of blew it out of the
• 1:10
  water and then was managed to get back this one.
• 1:12
  I find it really wavers. That's really, and it's still
• 1:15
  wavers. It always does.
• 1:16
  That's the whole thing with it. So I thought it would be
• 1:18
  interesting conversation. Wavering movie.
• 1:20
  And a much more interesting Matt Damon movie performance story
• 1:24
  than anything that you could provide last week.
• 1:26
  Well, before I spend the next hour convincing the listeners
• 1:31
  that Great Wall is a better movie than this, let's see what
• 1:35
  IMDb says. A law student and his pal gamble
• 1:40
  for high stakes. That may be the single worst
• 1:43
  IMDb description in the history. There's no hitting more here.
• 1:47
  No, that's it. I'm really surprised.
• 1:50
  Would you put Worm in the? PAL category borderline.
• 1:55
  However, I think IMD may have redeemed itself when it comes to
• 2:00
  the scoring. It did Great Wall a great
• 2:04
  disservice with this score. Here we have a 53 meta score.
• 2:09
  Not that it matters, just a bunch of numbers. 1.3 for the
• 2:14
  people like you who get in there and give out their little 10 out
• 2:18
  of 10s. Nope.
• 2:19
  Other than Magnolia and Surviving Christmas, I've never
• 2:22
  done anything on. But you gave them both tents.
• 2:26
  I think I wrote a review. I don't think I actually raped.
• 2:28
  OK, but if I had, I would have put them tentative.
• 2:30
  Yeah, there you go. That's proving my point.
• 2:32
  You are part of the problem. Because they are not perfect. 10
• 2:36
  out of 10 is perfect. Surviving Christmas is not a
• 2:38
  perfect movie. Entertaining.
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  Yes, depends on who you ask. And when looking at IMDb, I did
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  notice as mentioned. My intro, directed by the great
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  John Dahl, Yeah, John Doll. You know, the movies I recognize
• 2:50
  of him was The Last Seduction and Red Rock West.
• 2:56
  I like the sound of that first one.
• 2:57
  Yeah, the last seduction. That was Linda Fiorentino and
• 3:00
  Peter Berg. Peter Berg.
• 3:03
  Great name. Absolutely.
• 3:05
  That came out a few years before this Red Rock was thing right
• 3:07
  before this as well. 96 they're kind of neo noirs, both of them.
• 3:10
  So I like to style and you know, obviously the cast of this one
• 3:14
  is stellar. Certainly 98, you got everybody
• 3:16
  kind of on the up. You have some pretty good
• 3:18
  players, that's one for sure. Brian Koppelman wrote it.
• 3:21
  I'm not familiar with him generally, certainly wasn't
• 3:24
  really done anything since that really nailed it.
• 3:26
  But I thought John Dale, I thought the direction of this
• 3:28
  movie was really good. But I was really excited about
• 3:30
  this movie for a number of reasons.
• 3:31
  I was just on the peak of really into going to movies, you know,
• 3:33
  theatrically and 9798. Yeah, for sure.
• 3:37
  Some big years for you out West 2001, I'll remember.
• 3:43
  Yeah, well, one of these days. But I am very curious to find
• 3:46
  out your feelings about some like you mentioned, a bit of a
• 3:49
  love hate relationship. It's interesting.
• 3:52
  Yeah, another thing, I've got a love hate relationship with
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  Dave. As you know, we've talked about
• 3:56
  it a few times over the years. Voiceover this movie employs it
• 4:01
  from minute one throughout the movie, and I wondered a how you
• 4:06
  I'm just gonna go out on a limb. I'm gonna assume you don't know
• 4:09
  anything about poker. You would be wrong.
• 4:12
  Oh, interesting. Tell me more.
• 4:15
  I know some OK. Yeah, so my thought was the
• 4:19
  voice over in this movie feels like it's designed less about
• 4:24
  character and more about here's what poker.
• 4:29
  Is tell me how to. Play it.
• 4:31
  When I react to something, it means in the grand scheme.
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  Let me explain all the mechanics, if you will, of
• 4:37
  poker, little bit of the lingo. Yeah.
• 4:39
  So what did you think of that? Did you feel it was engaging and
• 4:44
  welcoming or was it off putting because you're like, well what
• 4:47
  do I? Care, definitely not off
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  putting. I think it's necessary, I think,
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  if you want to get to every audience member for people who
• 4:54
  don't know anything about poker. If you don't and this isn't
• 4:58
  there, you're lost, OK? So I think it's imperative.
• 5:02
  This movie crashes and burns without this.
• 5:07
  However, similar to 8 Man Out, even through the explanation,
• 5:12
  there might be some words you still don't understand.
• 5:15
  Three stacks of high society. As an example, like I still
• 5:18
  didn't quite understand what that meant initially.
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  I do now. I get it completely.
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  And Matt Damon has a pleasing voice.
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  True. It's better than some voiceovers
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  were like you, really. Shouldn't be doing this?
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  Shouldn't be doing this? Like Harrison Ford in Presumed
• 5:32
  Innocence or Blade Runner. Yeah, we criticized that.
• 5:36
  It was like sleepwalking through no emotion.
• 5:38
  Great film. Well, yeah, we like the film.
• 5:40
  Good eating scene in that. Absolutely.
• 5:43
  I'd say listen to in the archives, but I don't think it's
• 5:44
  there. Anymore it might be I'm working
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  on it, it's under construction. It could be.
• 5:48
  Awhile. How about you?
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  What are your thoughts on this? Is this I hate or is this a
• 5:53
  love? My issue with it more than
• 5:55
  anything is I already knew poker, but I don't know that I
• 5:57
  knew it in 98. Now to think about it, because I
• 5:59
  think I got into poker more in the 2000s.
• 6:02
  It probably was helpful to give me some of that.
• 6:04
  Yeah, there's just a lot of it and I don't mind it in chunks.
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  It can be there to implement it to kind of connect some dots or
• 6:11
  to fill in some back story, and it's everything you get with
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  Worm because you have to jump in as if these people have known
• 6:17
  each other for 25 years or whatever it is.
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  But in rewatch, when it's doing character work, it's somewhat
• 6:24
  interesting because it needs to be there to kind of maybe
• 6:26
  bolster the Worm stuff. When it's just the technical
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  side, I found it kind of dry. You're throwing out a name like
• 6:32
  Doyle Brunson. Who is that, Phil?
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  He's a poker player, OK, but it doesn't matter who he is.
• 6:37
  Yeah, right. Like if you don't know poker and
• 6:39
  he's talking about he wants to sit at the table next to Doyle
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  Brunson, the. Marriage could have said
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  anybody. And you don't know who Doyle
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  Brunson is. Obviously you weren't interested
• 6:48
  to find out, right? Like.
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  In the modern. Age, no movies and anything can
• 6:53
  trigger the ooh like in Everest. I don't know anything about
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  this. I want to look more up.
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  Great film. You didn't think enough about
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  poker or the movie or Brunson to figure that out?
• 7:03
  So it doesn't matter that we spend 5 minutes talking about
• 7:06
  Doyle Brunson at The Mirage with his Kings and Jacks.
• 7:08
  I don't know. We get introduced to Willem
• 7:12
  Dafoe. Oh, sorry, John Malkovich.
• 7:15
  It doesn't quite fit here with his Russian accent.
• 7:19
  Very interesting guy. OK, John Malkovich is the
• 7:22
  character or the person? Both.
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  OK. What's interesting about this is
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  he's the doorman. That doesn't make sense to me.
• 7:30
  OK. And what's funny is.
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  This is why it doesn't get on your shelf.
• 7:33
  It could be, but Matt Damon even says he doesn't look like much.
• 7:37
  Well no cause he's getting his own door.
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  Like he got thugs to do that. Yeah, Grandma, anybody?
• 7:42
  Like he would be in the back, similar to grandma in his little
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  layer. Sure as it works.
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  So I think it was just done to say here is an introduction to
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  this character. We don't want to have you go
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  through the room down the hall, hang a.
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  Left small room, there he is. Now we have the introduction, so
• 8:01
  I get it from a storytelling perspective that's just have an
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  answer the door so we can get into it.
• 8:05
  Sure. And expose that accent of his.
• 8:10
  Yeah, yeah. I think you meant to one up me
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  on the Damon front and you failed in doing so on the
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  accent. Oh, I think it's a much worse
• 8:24
  version of an accident. So I did.
• 8:26
  I think I won. Upped you by falling, failing.
• 8:28
  Like succeeding, my thought. Now it is get a different actor
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  or just let John be American. Does he need to be Russian?
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  Yeah, it's a whole thing. The Russian mob.
• 8:41
  America. There's a lot of different mobs,
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  maybe you can do an Italian. Accent.
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  Or Irish, maybe they tried some with them and sadly, this was
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  his best one. All right, well, we're.
• 8:51
  Going with this one, yeah. It's so silly.
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  The difference to me is I think he knows this is bad.
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  And I think Damon didn't know that his was bad, right?
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  I think that's the issue. It tells the story.
• 9:03
  Damon's a great sort of storyteller.
• 9:05
  Yes, absolutely. And one of the things you
• 9:08
  mentioned once about this movie was he said that Malkovich, on
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  the first day of shooting, he shows up and he's like, hello,
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  this really thick accent. And Damon is sort of a little
• 9:19
  put off by it. And he Malkovich leans into him
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  and says I'm a terrible actor. And there's something really
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  funny about that. So I've always sort of
• 9:26
  interpreted that it's been the worst action I heard in 98.
• 9:29
  It never gets any better. I'm sure it's not an easy one to
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  do. It's just such an exaggerated
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  version of it. It's like, I'll sit right, like
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  just it's so that's good cartoonish that it becomes
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  almost humorous. I do very good Quebec French.
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  I'm not gonna do it now. I'm gonna save it for one of our
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  Quebec films, yeah. There's a few out there, yeah.
• 9:48
  Mail Storm. Yeah, there you go.
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  But that was my. Take on it.
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  I hate it. It's really bad.
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  I mean, he's only in the 1st 10 and then he's in the last 20.
• 9:56
  That's right. So it's not like a through line.
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  Yes, fortunately he's not running your whole picture.
• 10:00
  Like Damon was last week. I love him as an actor, but I
• 10:04
  just think you could have got somebody else to do this just as
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  fine. I don't think it's him that's
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  bringing a lot to it. No, I agree.
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  Good. It's a nice change of pace.
• 10:13
  Well, this maybe talk about why he even came here.
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  OK, to KGB. Yep, Teddy.
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  Is. Making a run.
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  That's John Malkovich's character's name.
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  He doesn't wanna grind anymore, Phil.
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  He was a grinder and I respect that line.
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  Third line, get in the corners, get those rebounds, screen the
• 10:32
  goalkeeper. All the things you can't do.
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  I was a goaltender, so yeah, that's true.
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  I. Think of the video game version.
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  You're more of a sniper. Ohe yeah, off to the side there,
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  always looking for the glory. So I don't like that he's doing
• 10:46
  this. I don't think it's the right
• 10:47
  move. Well, certainly turns out not.
• 10:49
  To be with condition on this one, yeah, it certainly didn't
• 10:54
  work out great. This is the inciting incident of
• 10:57
  the whole movie. Yeah.
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  He's making a run. He cashes out three stacks of
• 11:01
  high. Society.
• 11:01
  Yes, he does. And he gathers the money from
• 11:04
  his apartment. All the different nooks and
• 11:05
  crannies. You have anything tucked away in
• 11:08
  some nooks and crannies? I can't tell you because she
• 11:12
  might listen to this episode. I don't know, you know, when I
• 11:14
  was. When I was in my 20s, I was in
• 11:17
  my apartment out West. Yeah.
• 11:19
  And in every just let's make it cut basically within arms reach,
• 11:26
  OK, because you're moving your arms now any place in the
• 11:29
  apartment. What did you have A.
• 11:30
  Condom. I was just going to say that.
• 11:33
  It was underneath the lampshade over here.
• 11:35
  It was over here by the stereo on the kitchen.
• 11:38
  It's on top of the right. It was just everywhere within.
• 11:42
  That in there certainly didn't have that.
• 11:44
  Problem. Only look in the crane that I've
• 11:45
  ever really stoned like that. Sadly, like Mike, there were
• 11:49
  times where I busted out. I just didn't.
• 11:53
  Is that? They weren't necessary or reach
• 11:56
  for them and they weren't there anymore.
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  I've forgotten to replenish. I mean, there's, you know, one
• 11:59
  could win 100% of the time. How this little Phil.
• 12:04
  Yeah, Pocket aces. That'll get you aces.
• 12:06
  This. Don't do that.
• 12:09
  This whole movie is different. If those cards are different.
• 12:14
  Do you remember our Casino Royale conversation, How I felt
• 12:17
  about the drama around playing poker?
• 12:20
  I know you're playing the man, but the cards have a lot to do
• 12:23
  with it in the movie. If that's not pocket aces, you
• 12:26
  know. But that instance, right?
• 12:28
  But in many other instances throughout the whole movie,
• 12:30
  you're bluffing on a busted straight.
• 12:32
  The judge does later. You're playing the man there,
• 12:35
  Chesterfield, playing the man. There, I'm not saying there's
• 12:38
  not instances where you're not playing the man, but there's
• 12:40
  some zone in there. The cards are the chance part,
• 12:44
  the. Playing the man is the skill.
• 12:46
  You're just like Joe. You don't understand.
• 12:58
  Little Field nine months later, a possibility here.
• 13:03
  Let's jump ahead in the movie. That's funny.
• 13:07
  Yeah, he turns into Doug Heffernan.
• 13:09
  Of course he does. You know who I'm talking about?
• 13:11
  TV. That's why Kevin James.
• 13:14
  Also why King of Queens never saw it.
• 13:16
  He's a truck driver. Sure.
• 13:17
  It's the show. OK, I have no.
• 13:19
  Idea Leah Remini OK Ben Stiller's dad, Jerry.
• 13:23
  Playing an angry dad. Maybe not quite, it's a
• 13:26
  different enough character. This guy has range.
• 13:29
  One of the greats. One of the greats.
• 13:31
  Great documentary about him. I bet there is there.
• 13:33
  Debate from his son. I had the theme song King of
• 13:35
  Queens going through good, honest profession.
• 13:38
  Good, honest profession. Yeah, Doug worked hard.
• 13:40
  I believe it. And conveniently, he's
• 13:43
  delivering something to Martin Landau.
• 13:46
  Yeah, yeah, the great Martin Landau.
• 13:47
  Well, he was great in Hollywood, Homicide and you.
• 13:49
  Know it. Yeah.
• 13:51
  Yeah. Great for Ed Wood.
• 13:52
  Won an Oscar for that one. Yeah, I can see that.
• 13:54
  Husbands and wives he's great in.
• 13:56
  I get a little bit of Mike from Suits in this.
• 13:59
  Have you seen Suits? No idea if it's television.
• 14:02
  I have no seen it. Let's just stop.
• 14:04
  It's not West Wing, why bother? Or Westworld?
• 14:06
  Didn't you watch Westworld? Westworld if it starts with the
• 14:09
  West. Last, like there's a there's.
• 14:12
  Definitely a theme here, but you can read people, OK.
• 14:15
  Like you said, the man, he knows you didn't get the pair.
• 14:19
  Yeah, or you didn't get the straight.
• 14:21
  And he's helping Lando's character, like, raise get to
• 14:24
  get in there, get in there, win some money.
• 14:26
  But he didn't touch the cards, though.
• 14:28
  He didn't play. That's important to know.
• 14:29
  Yeah. He's observing.
• 14:31
  Yes, he's participating. He's not really observant
• 14:34
  because he's in the mix. Networking.
• 14:35
  Yeah, for sure. Yeah, if you're dealing with
• 14:37
  lawyers. I think there are things like
• 14:40
  tells, and definitely I always suspect solutely poker playing
• 14:43
  would be helpful. 100% you can take a lot of that into the
• 14:46
  courtroom. Yeah, there's no doubt.
• 14:47
  About reading the man, figuring out the towels, What's the look
• 14:50
  on their face? Same thing.
• 14:50
  Interrogation and so forth. That's why he could be a good
• 14:53
  lawyer. Yeah.
• 14:54
  Mike McDermott. Yeah, and I tell you, everyone
• 14:57
  around him, everyone that knows him would see that.
• 15:00
  Anyone that loves him would see that.
• 15:03
  Anybody that spent 5 minutes with them in law school would
• 15:07
  see that. All the judges around the table
• 15:10
  see that. See what Phil.
• 15:12
  Quality quality of an ability to see how the poker skills he's
• 15:17
  developed would be useful in the court of law translate well,
• 15:21
  yes, of course. So you would think Oh well this
• 15:24
  is smart play. He's networking very important
• 15:26
  as you and I both know I don't do it, but it's important.
• 15:29
  That's why neither one of us do employee in the basement.
• 15:32
  But the idea of putting those things to skill, using that,
• 15:35
  leveraging that with the judges, calling out blind what everybody
• 15:39
  has, proving that you're above and beyond a great mind.
• 15:42
  So. Forth.
• 15:43
  Somebody probably wants a summer job too.
• 15:45
  Everybody. Leaves and they say that's good
• 15:46
  kid, smart kid. What did you have?
• 15:48
  OHP busted up straight. Oh my gosh, ha ha ha ha.
• 15:52
  I'm thinking Mike is really smart right now that is about to
• 15:59
  end. It's crashing into a brick
• 16:01
  fucking wall. Alright, I have an.
• 16:03
  Idea where you're going? I like to call it a brick
• 16:07
  fucking mall. Jesus, that's a stretch.
• 16:12
  Gretchen Mall. Gretchen Mall.
• 16:13
  Yes. Make that clear for Joe, For
• 16:15
  people who didn't get that joke. Yeah.
• 16:17
  Playing Joe JONOE. Yeah.
• 16:20
  Same as the girl from Facts of Life.
• 16:22
  That's right. No relation.
• 16:23
  Joanne. Yeah, I imagine so.
• 16:24
  Or Jody. You don't know.
• 16:26
  You don't know, do you? Research as usual.
• 16:29
  Yeah, she knows he's been around cards.
• 16:32
  She can sniff it. Yeah, she's Francis.
• 16:34
  Let's just call. Oh, wow.
• 16:37
  Almost ruins the movie. Let me get this clear.
• 16:39
  You don't like her character, but you think it has a negative
• 16:44
  influence on the film as well? Yeah, because we have to have
• 16:47
  bad characters in movies to make the movie.
• 16:49
  Work. I don't think that's entirely.
• 16:51
  True. Well, not always.
• 16:52
  But you can have good characters doing bad things.
• 16:54
  That's what I mean. Yes, she is a bad character
• 16:57
  doing bad things. She does nothing helpful for the
• 17:00
  movie, Does nothing people for the character.
• 17:02
  She's got nothing to do other than bitch, nag and complain.
• 17:06
  I think those are strong words. For me, this is very mild and I
• 17:10
  think what it lacks is a little bit of a back story.
• 17:13
  When did they start dating? Was that made clear?
• 17:17
  Was it back when he was playing cards or when?
• 17:20
  Or was it through the lawyer stuff?
• 17:22
  It was through the cards. He's already in his second year
• 17:25
  of law school, so they've been together, she says.
• 17:28
  I supported you through the problem.
• 17:31
  The problem? Exactly.
• 17:32
  And he lost all the money. Yeah.
• 17:35
  Yeah, so I can understand where she's coming from.
• 17:39
  Wow, OK. 100%. I mean, you have a history of
• 17:42
  willingness just giving over. Well, you know, it's, I feel she
• 17:48
  is not unsupportive. Wow.
• 17:51
  Yeah, exactly. You're gonna have to really dig
• 17:53
  in. Here, man.
• 17:54
  Well, I'm surprised you feel so strongly about this because I
• 17:58
  never felt that she was nagging. She didn't come on too strong.
• 18:02
  She clearly was concerned that he was going to fall into that
• 18:06
  old life. And I think that's fair.
• 18:09
  When you're in the world of gambling, alcoholism, you don't
• 18:14
  really get the benefit of the doubt.
• 18:17
  You've lost that. I was a lot of cases.
• 18:19
  What I know of Mike, what we collectively know of Mike is
• 18:23
  that he was a gambler, grinded it out for months and months and
• 18:28
  months when 1 pot, Yeah, right. Enough to keep going, paid half
• 18:31
  the law school. He says he's already done all
• 18:34
  the things, so the good stuff is already happening.
• 18:36
  He was always doing that and she was with him and she was with.
• 18:39
  That's what I mean. It was true.
• 18:41
  That he made. He blew it all he had to go
• 18:45
  drive in the truck. Changed his life.
• 18:47
  But all the rest of that was all positive stuff.
• 18:50
  And she accepted that for what it was.
• 18:53
  Clearly or she never appreciated it and was always nagging.
• 18:57
  Either way it's a shitty relationship and a shitty
• 19:00
  girlfriend. Not supportive.
• 19:01
  And he comes back from the judgeship and she's like, you
• 19:05
  were playing cards weren't. You.
• 19:06
  She didn't say it like that. I was in the fucking room.
• 19:09
  Oh, you're just a card player with some judge.
• 19:12
  This fucking judge that just offered him a God damn summer
• 19:15
  internship to work for the fucking clerk.
• 19:17
  What, like like, oh, you're networking?
• 19:20
  Yeah, I'm fucking networking. What are we talking about?
• 19:23
  You want to say the B word, didn't you?
• 19:25
  Fucking? You know, I didn't get that tone
• 19:27
  from her. Well, we're going to have to
• 19:29
  load it up because it's, it's anyway, whatever.
• 19:31
  It's just shocking to me a how you didn't pick up on it because
• 19:35
  it is the only thing that she brings to that table is just
• 19:38
  you're not bringing cards, are you?
• 19:40
  She's a little more soft spoken than you for sure when with her
• 19:43
  delivery, so maybe it was a little quieter than that.
• 19:46
  It wasn't that strong and I think the other thing that
• 19:48
  you've now made clear is that she accepted Mike for who he was
• 19:54
  when he was doing this, and that I would have a problem with.
• 19:58
  For at least 2 1/2. Years made one little mistake, a
• 20:01
  big one, and now he can't even be in the room with a deck of
• 20:05
  cards. All the judgment he has been on
• 20:07
  the straight and narrow, but he goes and he gets near a card
• 20:10
  game and all he does is network and play his strengths as a
• 20:14
  fucking card player into becoming.
• 20:16
  A lawyer. I get it.
• 20:17
  I get it, Phil. And she makes him pay.
• 20:19
  For it. But I do understand the fact
• 20:20
  that she would have concerns based on the fact that he lost
• 20:26
  all that money. Like I don't wanna be in that
• 20:28
  situation again. So I think she may have
• 20:30
  overreacted, but I think it's understandable with the
• 20:35
  incident. And gambling, people might
• 20:38
  argue, is a problem. Like you don't want to be
• 20:41
  involved with a gambler, generally speaking.
• 20:44
  No problems for 2 1/2 years at least.
• 20:46
  True, so maybe they should just go their separate ways.
• 20:49
  And well, that's the whole thing, right?
• 20:50
  And so then you're just a bad girlfriend and I don't want to
• 20:52
  be around. You.
• 20:53
  I don't think she's a bad girlfriend.
• 20:54
  We are in two different places. I want this You about that.
• 20:58
  That's mutually agreed that this isn't going to work.
• 21:00
  I don't think that makes her bad.
• 21:01
  Her priorities have changed and I think that's fair.
• 21:04
  He can't have both. He has to make a call.
• 21:06
  That's fine, that is later in the movie that call happens to
• 21:10
  me. In this scene all he's done is
• 21:12
  been in a room where someone was playing cards and he was
• 21:15
  networking with his lawyer people to do lawyer things with
• 21:18
  judges and she overreacts. Eat shit for it.
• 21:21
  Well he's doing it 10 minutes later so I think that's why
• 21:24
  maybe I'm on her side. Agree to disagree, because what
• 21:26
  happens next? But what happens next?
• 21:29
  He goes pickle. Worm.
• 21:30
  Yeah, that's right. As you should.
• 21:33
  A good friend who didn't say his name.
• 21:36
  That's right. Not a rat, Right.
• 21:38
  We talked about not a whistleblower and not a rat.
• 21:41
  Yeah. I think this is a nice
• 21:45
  introduction to Edward Norton. And much like Kraft Singles,
• 21:52
  these processed, very processed. But before he leaves, he he
• 22:02
  still wants to take cigarettes from these guys.
• 22:03
  And he doesn't even smoke. No, that's great.
• 22:06
  That's ballsy. I love it.
• 22:07
  Yeah, I love Norton. Yeah, he's really good.
• 22:09
  He's excellent, actually. Too good in this movie.
• 22:11
  Yeah, I think. Yeah.
• 22:13
  OK. We'll get into that a little
• 22:15
  later, we will, but I think his performance.
• 22:17
  You don't hate him. Do you?
• 22:19
  I do issues with that relationship too.
• 22:23
  Uh huh. Of.
• 22:23
  Course that obviously we'll get into, but as a character and as
• 22:26
  an actor, he's just. He's great.
• 22:28
  He's great, He's great. And I know the type of movie
• 22:31
  that were involved in. Clearly, Joe made it clear that
• 22:36
  Mike has a gambling problem. We all know, right?
• 22:39
  I don't want to trigger. You.
• 22:43
  But I have a feeling Worm based on the name alone might be.
• 22:48
  A negative influence. Negative on Mike's life yeah,
• 22:53
  that's fair. I like that she does say I can't
• 22:55
  believe in your life. There's a.
• 22:56
  Guy named Worm. So maybe that's the tell.
• 22:59
  Yeah, I want to say though, at the very beginning, in the first
• 23:02
  couple scenes with him and I'm like, OK, toxic level low, not
• 23:07
  too bad. I like what he's saying.
• 23:09
  Pretty cool guy. He's not pushing Mike too much.
• 23:12
  I love his story about how he plays the guards.
• 23:14
  Yeah, yeah, that's that's them win gets the smokes off these
• 23:18
  guys. He has this whole thing and
• 23:20
  yeah, and he's working alone because you can't trust anybody.
• 23:22
  So I think that's a fun conversation.
• 23:25
  And Mike reveals that he's out of the game.
• 23:28
  He's off it. We already know that.
• 23:29
  He's clean. He's been cleaned the whole
• 23:31
  fucking time. Yeah, but someone won't let him
• 23:34
  live it down. We all know who that is.
• 23:40
  I mentioned her name. That's right.
• 23:41
  Yeah. And I believe him, Mike.
• 23:44
  Good for him. Staying strong.
• 23:46
  Yeah, but we know I'm Team Joe. So that's right.
• 23:48
  I don't believe him. No.
• 23:49
  Shit, that relationship is the toxicity level.
• 23:54
  I'm surprised you didn't see it as quickly as it were, because
• 23:58
  to me, this is like, immediately.
• 24:01
  It's like me offering you a drink every 20 minutes, right?
• 24:05
  And like, yeah, hey, I get it. But no, is no, but I know you
• 24:09
  want it. Come on.
• 24:10
  I know it's coming, yeah, But in this instance, he doesn't push
• 24:14
  at all because he knows Mike's gonna turn around.
• 24:17
  Like somehow he has that. Sure, Like Clint Eastwood.
• 24:20
  Yeah. Outlaw Josie Wales.
• 24:22
  Yeah, I believe, yeah. It's not TV, so maybe you don't.
• 24:25
  Ohhhhh, yeah, there we go. Sorry, buddy.
• 24:27
  Keep it on the small screen, my friend.
• 24:28
  That's right. My question to you was, and
• 24:31
  maybe you just answered it, but I had a question of how fast do
• 24:33
  you drop this guy? There's a point where I'm like,
• 24:36
  OK, Max Tuxicity. OK.
• 24:38
  I scratched it out and rewrote it.
• 24:41
  Almost. Yeah, almost there.
• 24:43
  And it came a little later. OK, here we go.
• 24:46
  But not yet. OK, I'll tell you that much.
• 24:48
  I'll let you know when. Though, Sure.
• 24:49
  Yeah. I felt that's a challenge that I
• 24:52
  wondered how you would face because we've talked before.
• 24:55
  You like to like? Kerry do.
• 24:56
  And. Yeah.
• 24:57
  So. Yeah.
• 24:57
  And every Norton movie you throw at me.
• 24:59
  He's not that likeable. And there's no real reason to go
• 25:02
  to bat for Mike, either. No, he's got a gambling problem.
• 25:05
  He's the worst. I mean, he's just a regular guy.
• 25:08
  I don't care if you win or not. Do what you want.
• 25:10
  Yeah, Really. Well, there's that.
• 25:12
  You're not changing the world. What you want, honey?
• 25:15
  I love you. I'll.
• 25:16
  Support you there, whatever you need, yeah.
• 25:18
  Supports you go out there, drink, smoke, gamble, hookers,
• 25:23
  man, whatever it takes. Sorry, not hookers.
• 25:25
  Hookers relaxation therapist. Yeah, be clear about that
• 25:29
  morality. Let's get to a game.
• 25:31
  You want to play some poker? That's why you're here.
• 25:34
  Yeah, I assume that's why it's on your shelf.
• 25:35
  Yeah. I don't think you said it.
• 25:37
  I didn't. I want to know your.
• 25:39
  Demons. But in 98 I wasn't into poker.
• 25:41
  It was later. Got you.
• 25:43
  Really got into. It because of this movie.
• 25:45
  I think it was maybe latent and then I rewatched it around the
• 25:48
  time that I was getting into poker a couple years later and
• 25:50
  then it kind of comes and goes into that.
• 25:52
  World, I think you got into it out of spite because Joe, I am
• 25:55
  good at gamble. I'm going to get into it because
• 25:58
  I don't like. You.
• 25:59
  It's the equivalent of having a few drinks after work on a
• 26:04
  Friday night versus an alcoholic that can't control it.
• 26:08
  This is a guy that gambles. But has it under control.
• 26:11
  It's a skill, it's not a game, it's not chance, and it's
• 26:13
  something I do and I pay the rent and I do the things like
• 26:16
  Kanish. Exactly.
• 26:17
  The grinder. That's right.
• 26:18
  So the principles behind it, it's like you have a gambling
• 26:20
  problem or you're a gambler, you're an alcoholic, or you like
• 26:24
  a drink. It really depends on your
• 26:27
  personality and your chemicals. So she is assuming Mike is like
• 26:31
  this horrible human being because he gambles.
• 26:33
  Meanwhile, again, for 2 1/2 years he's fine.
• 26:35
  She was her I don't wanna talk about.
• 26:36
  Her anymore, she was hurt once. 30,000 A lot of money, Yeah, a
• 26:41
  lot of money. Yeah, a lot of high society.
• 26:43
  Yeah, he's in now. Low society, I guess.
• 26:45
  But we're at the table. Yeah, right back to the table.
• 26:47
  Speaking of high society, we have some of those types here.
• 26:51
  Trust fund kids. Yes, apparently Worm knows a
• 26:55
  girl that he almost needed one of your condoms for so close,
• 27:01
  and this is their first chance to really get back into it.
• 27:04
  The game. I mean, Norton's in no matter.
• 27:06
  What as soon as he gets out, is I gotta get me to a game, give
• 27:09
  me the table. That's a guy who's got a
• 27:11
  problem, possibly. How much money they have going
• 27:12
  in there, 300? Bucks it was a couple like
• 27:15
  everything he got started small, but you start taking those kinds
• 27:18
  of terms right and you're like oh, that's only X amount of
• 27:21
  whatever he's got a. Problem.
• 27:22
  Yeah, there's a whole ecosystem here, totally.
• 27:24
  But I think this is the right crowd to get the ball rolling,
• 27:29
  as it were. Make a few bucks.
• 27:31
  Yeah, they talk about how worms, about his mechanics.
• 27:33
  He knows all new tricks of the trade.
• 27:35
  Yeah. And Mike, through voiceover,
• 27:37
  gets to tell us how. Ohe yeah, mopping them up.
• 27:40
  They have a system where they work together and pretend not to
• 27:43
  know each. Other yet and he's a great
• 27:45
  loser. Fuck you and you're never ending
• 27:47
  boats. Yeah, that's a strong suit.
• 27:49
  Yes, that's true. Yeah.
• 27:51
  We talked about 8 men out and how obvious it was to cheat to
• 27:56
  lose. I think of chick OHS right
• 27:58
  running, half jogging, stopping. How obvious it was to anybody
• 28:02
  looking would think this guy is cheating.
• 28:04
  And I wondered the contrast of now watching a movie where
• 28:07
  people are cheating to win and if that was easier to catch or
• 28:11
  not. I think it would depend on who
• 28:14
  you're playing with. I think in this scenario I think
• 28:17
  it's pretty easy to cheat to win.
• 28:19
  Sure, you have the right people. We'll see you later on.
• 28:22
  Not quite that. You gotta know your opponents,
• 28:26
  sure. And know when, like Kenny Rogers
• 28:28
  says, no window fold, no when to run, no when to walk away, walk
• 28:32
  away. Great.
• 28:32
  Song called The Gambler. Yeah, the gambler, Yeah, I think
• 28:35
  the communication process, you go in there with the plan, You
• 28:38
  guys have a system that's between you.
• 28:39
  The 2 baseball, you got 9 guys when the first standing, you
• 28:43
  don't know who's on your side, who's not.
• 28:45
  And you're playing in front of 4050 thousand people.
• 28:48
  Maybe, maybe not in 1919. But you've got a crowd, you've
• 28:51
  got an audience, and they're, yeah, you have four other.
• 28:53
  Guys, you gotta worry about and depending on how good your stick
• 28:56
  is and if you're playing against like trust fund kids, you're
• 29:00
  probably pretty safe and that's why it works totally in this
• 29:02
  instance. So, and if you have your own
• 29:04
  language like you're saying, and you're able to tap twice on your
• 29:06
  nose for this or you know, whatever, everyone knows what's
• 29:09
  happening except the victims. And one of the things I had
• 29:11
  questions about this movie later is you need money, go do this.
• 29:15
  What I do in Movies Now I've learned is things that bother
• 29:19
  me. The first watch, especially in
• 29:21
  yours, is lots. My second watch, I tried to
• 29:25
  figure them out to make sure maybe I missed something, and I
• 29:28
  did this. We can only do every two weeks.
• 29:31
  That's when that particular event, and I think they need the
• 29:35
  money to give to grandma. That time frame is much shorter
• 29:38
  than two weeks, so there's no opportunity from them to go back
• 29:41
  to this room and pull this scheme again.
• 29:43
  Correct. So yeah, that room in
• 29:45
  particular. But yeah, but they have some
• 29:47
  issues around that. One of the challenges I have
• 29:49
  with the movie is ultimately the ubiquity of games is not an
• 29:54
  issue because Mike says it at the first line everywhere and
• 29:57
  everybody's got 1. You go here, you go there.
• 29:59
  Play with the dentist. Go to suburbia.
• 30:01
  Exactly. Can I just drop in five or six
• 30:03
  different places? Now maybe you're not making
• 30:05
  $15,000 in three nights or five nights, which ultimately the
• 30:07
  movie kind of comes to, but grind.
• 30:09
  But that opportunity to win a couple of 1000 bucks every time
• 30:13
  should be fairly easy. Especially between the two of
• 30:16
  you, if you want to not work together and you do your thing.
• 30:19
  But Worm is not exactly most reliable, no.
• 30:23
  At least we can agree on that. Finally.
• 30:24
  Yeah, something we have Mike returning to the Chesterfield.
• 30:29
  He brings worm in, meets Famca. Yes, Petra.
• 30:34
  Petra is her name, played by Femke Janssen from Star Trek TNG
• 30:39
  fame. Wow, I didn't know.
• 30:41
  That she was a pleasure girl, for lack of a better term, there
• 30:45
  too. They find her.
• 30:47
  She was in space, floating around.
• 30:49
  They like in a cocoon. They thaw out or something.
• 30:52
  This is not accurate. And she's attached to Picard.
• 30:55
  Like I would do anything for you, Picard.
• 30:57
  I'm your girl. 'S got a good situation
• 30:59
  happening. There, he didn't really take
• 31:01
  full advantage of it. Well, he was a very.
• 31:03
  Honorable man. Not unlike Mike McGee, who
• 31:06
  doesn't take advantage of it either.
• 31:08
  No sad situation while he's still currently in a
• 31:11
  relationship for much longer, yes.
• 31:15
  Moment later. Yeah, but Worms certainly takes
• 31:17
  advantage of Mike. Yeah, right away.
• 31:21
  Yeah. And Mike says things like take
• 31:23
  care of him, which he uses as an opening and she uses as an
• 31:28
  opening of. Oh well OK, I'll just put me on
• 31:30
  his tab. Then yeah, that wasn't made
• 31:32
  clear, No. And in this gambling world and,
• 31:36
  you know, Worm, yeah, you might want to bring out some specifics
• 31:41
  in there. Yeah.
• 31:42
  Do not give him any money. That is mine, yes.
• 31:46
  I want my money. Would be my money.
• 31:47
  Yeah, I think it's a little easy.
• 31:50
  That worm is immediately on the take.
• 31:53
  And she's OK with it without even.
• 31:54
  Maybe. I'll check with Mike.
• 31:55
  I know maybe that's the world. It is though, they don't really
• 31:58
  care. Could be.
• 31:59
  I don't know. That's your world, not mine.
• 32:01
  Could be, could be. I know you're in the underground
• 32:03
  playing with some Russians, talking about perogies and snow.
• 32:07
  I don't know if that's big in Russia, so I'm heading for a
• 32:13
  while, but I'm. Not around the corner, but first
• 32:15
  to him. I wouldn't go looking for.
• 32:17
  I'll buy them right around the corner.
• 32:18
  OK, Calm down. We'll go after recording.
• 32:20
  Yeah. Is it owned by Russians?
• 32:22
  Ukrainians. Ukrainians.
• 32:23
  Sorry you said that. Listen, David, listen.
• 32:27
  But he's causing some problems here because he cheats, he's a
• 32:31
  cheater and that is not good for Mike's name because Mike used to
• 32:34
  play here. That's it.
• 32:36
  The group of trust fund kids don't see it, but the people
• 32:39
  that play the Chesterfield. Exactly know the room.
• 32:42
  Yeah, yeah, they're gamblers. They know what's up.
• 32:44
  If you couldn't see it so blatantly, what you'd have to do
• 32:47
  is Snoop for it. So after Kanish?
• 32:50
  After Kanish tells Mike that worms getting him in trouble
• 32:55
  he's, you know, splashing his name around, Mike goes back.
• 32:59
  Mall is waiting up, Joe Sure she couldn't.
• 33:03
  Sleep. Maybe she wants to, you know.
• 33:05
  Do it, Yeah. She don't feel a thing.
• 33:07
  She's right. She doesn't want to do it.
• 33:10
  He wants to take a shower, she says.
• 33:11
  I'll wait for you. Yeah, good girlfriend does that.
• 33:14
  Totally good girlfriend, except of course at this point she gets
• 33:18
  snoopy. She's awad and knows it's all
• 33:22
  falling apart. She.
• 33:23
  Knows she was right all along. You ever Snoop, you snooper?
• 33:27
  No, not really. You've been snooped.
• 33:29
  Generally speaking, no. Over the years I don't think
• 33:31
  I've dated a snooper. I have two words for you.
• 33:35
  Sure. Actually got more words for you
• 33:37
  that I can't air it. Probable cause.
• 33:41
  Ohhhhh. Lawyered.
• 33:43
  I know. I don't know if this is
• 33:46
  something she would normally have done hadn't that happened.
• 33:49
  OK, but I don't like a snooper. I'll be clear about that.
• 33:55
  Well, that's just indicative of clearly bigger problems with
• 33:57
  this relationship. Yeah, for sure.
• 33:58
  These two should not. They should.
• 33:59
  Together. We don't want the same thing.
• 34:00
  Best of luck in your life. You know how you feel about.
• 34:05
  In your life, Yeah. But I see you're.
• 34:07
  I mean, it's not a great character like throughout the
• 34:10
  movie, but I mean, I think it's real, though.
• 34:12
  Here's what I think. And maybe the issue is what The
• 34:17
  thing is. But anybody that tells you I
• 34:21
  feel alive when I do this, this is a a passion, a drive.
• 34:28
  I have a talent, a knack, a skill that I'm excited and
• 34:31
  passionate about. Sure.
• 34:34
  Any partner to me should see that as something positive.
• 34:40
  And so if I was with somebody, yeah, now there's obviously
• 34:44
  gradation, but ultimately if it is, I feel very alive when I do.
• 34:49
  This when you're on heroin, Beck.
• 34:51
  On the mountain top in Everest, there's a dark cloud when I'm on
• 34:55
  the ground. And his wife lets them.
• 34:57
  Go. And here I am.
• 34:58
  Or did she feeling alive for the first time?
• 35:01
  Yeah, you forgot. To yeah, there you.
• 35:04
  Go. But he's chasing that thing.
• 35:05
  Yeah. And it works out OK for him.
• 35:08
  I just lost his hand, his face and his foot, nose and his nose.
• 35:12
  My point is just like, if this is what someone is bringing to
• 35:15
  the table and you can't muster any support for that, then
• 35:19
  you're not a good partner. And not that you're a bad
• 35:21
  person, although I think you are.
• 35:24
  Not me. Her.
• 35:24
  Yeah, fundamentally. Yeah you're a bad Co host.
• 35:29
  Like I don't think she's good for many reasons but like him
• 35:32
  saying lines like that and have her reaction be look at
• 35:36
  yourself. This is what brings you joy.
• 35:39
  This is. Good.
• 35:40
  Am I supposed to understand that?
• 35:41
  If that's what brings you joy, remember the scene.
• 35:43
  Right. I don't want to be here.
• 35:45
  You shouldn't be here if the if you can't bring some commitment
• 35:48
  to a guy who says this is what brings me.
• 35:50
  Joy, this is a tricky one, Phil. It's a very Gray area.
• 35:53
  I don't want to say I'm on the fence, you know?
• 35:55
  That's not my style. Style.
• 35:56
  No. But two things, just to play
• 35:58
  devil's advocate, would be the occupation that brings them.
• 36:03
  That is a world that sometimes is less acceptable gambling. 2
• 36:09
  1/2 years of success but. If he's if he sticks with
• 36:12
  grinding, sure you're on grinder.
• 36:16
  I thought the other guide, but I think as a woman and I've
• 36:20
  learned as I've been married for five years.
• 36:22
  So coming up soon, coming up just before my birthday is
• 36:27
  you're telling me I don't do anything for you.
• 36:30
  I don't make you feel alive. Being with me, going out to
• 36:33
  dinner with me, going bowling with me.
• 36:36
  I love the bowl trophies to prove it. 199 high.
• 36:41
  Always stinks, always stings. So that hurts a little bit being
• 36:44
  that person. I'm not bringing anything to
• 36:47
  your life. You don't feel good around me.
• 36:49
  I think that's an extreme point of view.
• 36:51
  I can say I feel alive when I do.
• 36:53
  This doesn't mean I feel dead when I'm not.
• 36:55
  I just means I like and I love. This, it's just a tough one to
• 36:58
  hear, but I know he doesn't mean to say like that about her.
• 37:02
  She's overreacting, but I don't think she reacts terribly in
• 37:05
  this either. Again, I don't think she's the
• 37:08
  tone you're using. Watch the movie.
• 37:09
  She's very soft spoken. Phillip.
• 37:11
  I was just doesn't understand. I once had a person in my life
• 37:15
  who said to me, I'm speaking calmly to you.
• 37:19
  Oh, I remember this. Why are you upset?
• 37:20
  Yeah. And I said, oh, well, let's just
• 37:23
  have someone quietly say, you're the worst human being in the
• 37:27
  world. I've hated you since the day we
• 37:28
  met. I've never loved you for one
• 37:30
  single solitary second. Doesn't have the.
• 37:31
  Punch. Does that make it any better?
• 37:34
  Because it was soft spoken rather than argumentative?
• 37:37
  No thank. You saying something?
• 37:39
  Thank you for explaining that and sharing that with me.
• 37:41
  OK, I'll take it away. I'll take it away and I'll come
• 37:45
  back with something. Yeah.
• 37:46
  So anyway, I think he's terrible, but luckily I never
• 37:48
  have to talk about her. Again, are we sure that I'm
• 37:51
  hopeful? Yeah.
• 37:51
  Oh, wait. I mean, well, she.
• 37:52
  Yeah, she moves out very soon. Thank.
• 37:54
  God, for this, he's better off. She's better off.
• 37:56
  Yeah, I think. That I agree with you.
• 37:58
  Go be whoever you want to. Be whomever you clearly don't
• 38:02
  want to be, yeah? Exactly.
• 38:03
  And you need a lawyer. She'll she's.
• 38:05
  There for you. That's right, Spoiler.
• 38:17
  If you can't go to her, just go to your grandmother.
• 38:19
  Oh, yeah. Did you have a grandmother?
• 38:22
  Gambled scratch tickets? No, no.
• 38:24
  A lot of grandma's love that scratch tickets.
• 38:26
  And I don't think you did. So I thought maybe it was not
• 38:30
  self hereditary. Perhaps Self?
• 38:32
  Inflicted. I don't think my dad like to
• 38:35
  gamble, but not. Good for him.
• 38:36
  Does he put money on his golf games?
• 38:38
  No, he plays baseball. He put a lot of money on his
• 38:41
  baseball game. OK, I'm just kidding.
• 38:44
  Alexa, pure game, pure game of golf course and that 10 grand.
• 38:48
  That's Worm. Could I call him Worm?
• 38:52
  Don't know if I'm a first name basis with them.
• 38:54
  Doesn't last long cause yeah, grandma comes along and roughs
• 38:57
  them up pretty good. They used to work together.
• 38:59
  That's the impression I got because that's what they say.
• 39:01
  They did say it, yes, and mentioned it two or three times.
• 39:04
  Yeah, but he has bought up. He's on his own.
• 39:06
  His 25,000 debt, he's like you left a lot of people pretty
• 39:10
  upset, which is very common if you've gone to prison sometimes.
• 39:14
  Lingering bits of business. And he says, I think I'm trying
• 39:17
  to do here, I'm trying to win some money and he won the 10
• 39:19
  grand. Worms really gotta smarten up
• 39:22
  here and I'll say I don't think he's understanding Grandma's
• 39:27
  self promotion here as he takes them to the bathroom and give
• 39:31
  them good shot in the lip. Yeah, yeah, it takes his 10
• 39:34
  grand. Little what, four, yeah, yeah.
• 39:35
  For. Sure, I tracked the money good
• 39:36
  in this. 25,000, he's paid him 10, and now we're talking 15 for
• 39:40
  the rest of the movie, so that all checks out.
• 39:42
  Yeah. Numbers, number guy.
• 39:43
  Yeah. What I think is interesting,
• 39:46
  we're at this bar that he goes to visit.
• 39:49
  You probably didn't catch this, but it's the song on the
• 39:51
  jukebox. I hate myself for loving you.
• 39:54
  It's that. Jono song I didn't know.
• 39:56
  And it feels a little on the nose to me.
• 39:58
  Yeah, I guess so. You're like, OK, warm and Mike
• 40:02
  hate myself for loving you. Yeah.
• 40:04
  OK. Joe and Mike.
• 40:05
  Yeah, it's a little on the nose. I thought was coincidence.
• 40:08
  I didn't actually hear it. Everything is a choice.
• 40:10
  If it's not at coming out of the jukebox, at Cheers, I don't hear
• 40:13
  it. That was a strip club, by the
• 40:15
  way. You said Barr.
• 40:17
  I would classify that as a strip club.
• 40:18
  OK, I want to clear that up. Because now we're now he's a
• 40:21
  horrible person. Again, he's not the best.
• 40:23
  He's not. He just got out of prison, so
• 40:25
  that's understandable. I get that.
• 40:27
  We go to an actual bar with Martin Mendel's character midges
• 40:33
  back. Judge.
• 40:33
  She's a judge and has a drink of gin that's pick up on that.
• 40:37
  Always gin. Yeah, I tied in.
• 40:39
  Fact. I did a girl who gin was her
• 40:41
  drink. Oh yeah, yeah, vile beverage.
• 40:44
  Yeah, I had one sip of gin once in my life and I was like, this
• 40:47
  is gross. It is gross.
• 40:48
  Disgusting. Now, this isn't a very big
• 40:51
  scene, but there's something for me that really stuck out to me
• 40:55
  that I didn't really like. It didn't jive with me, Phil.
• 41:00
  OK, it's a critical scene in the movie.
• 41:02
  I'm interested. To share.
• 41:03
  It is the turning point of the whole.
• 41:05
  Movie. Oh, my God, it is.
• 41:07
  Maybe that's why it's not on my shelf.
• 41:08
  Yeah. OK.
• 41:09
  This is it, buddy. Here we are.
• 41:11
  It's OK. Let's go.
• 41:14
  I don't mind his story about becoming a lawyer.
• 41:17
  Family doesn't want to do it. He feels that he's got a family
• 41:20
  of Joe's. This is not Joe's, but Jews.
• 41:26
  Jews. Yes, Yeah.
• 41:27
  All want him to be a rabbi. I was kind of dozing off during
• 41:31
  this story. He's not a great storyteller,
• 41:32
  let's be honest. OK, alright.
• 41:35
  And I think it's great that he wanted to be a lawyer and he
• 41:37
  stuck with it. He had this inside of him.
• 41:40
  And I think that profession is, I guess, depends on which side
• 41:43
  of the courtroom you are. Sure, Sure, sure.
• 41:46
  Could be questionable, but sometime.
• 41:47
  But I think he got his point across and he's basically
• 41:51
  telling Mike, and correct me if I'm wrong because I could be,
• 41:54
  that poker is your calling. He's not saying that it's
• 41:58
  metaphorical, that he's telling the story, but it is interpreted
• 42:01
  that way. It is the crux of the movie that
• 42:03
  way. Yeah, right.
• 42:04
  It's giving him permission to say I felt so strongly about
• 42:07
  this thing that I felt alive when I did.
• 42:10
  Yeah. And your skills and yadda,
• 42:12
  yadda, yadda. Fit that fit, at least.
• 42:15
  Don't fight it. Follow your instincts.
• 42:16
  Follow your passions. Yeah.
• 42:18
  He's a better girlfriend than Joe.
• 42:21
  Better in bed, I hear. Actually, he still got it.
• 42:23
  He's still got it, That guys the blue pill, but he's got it.
• 42:26
  And what I don't like about it is putting that under the
• 42:29
  umbrella of a calling. It's like playing Monopoly is
• 42:34
  your calling. I don't think it is.
• 42:37
  I think for me, I want to hear your opinion because you have
• 42:40
  one and evaluate it I do, is if it's to be considered a calling,
• 42:45
  you need to be bringing value to somebody other than yourself.
• 42:50
  Becoming a doctor, an aid worker, whatever it might be.
• 42:54
  You're doing something that you're passionate about that
• 42:56
  makes the world also a better place.
• 43:00
  That's a calling. Hmm.
• 43:02
  This. Who gives a shit?
• 43:04
  You wanna play poker? That's your calling.
• 43:06
  It doesn't have any positive influence on anybody else in the
• 43:10
  world. Negative.
• 43:11
  If anything, when you are in those situations where you are
• 43:14
  in a relationship and you lose it all, I just don't think
• 43:18
  calling would be the proper term.
• 43:20
  Follow your passion, that's fine, but I don't like that
• 43:23
  term. OK, Did I make a valid argument?
• 43:26
  Sure. Good.
• 43:28
  If you're believing in things like that, I suppose it's a word
• 43:30
  that could. Change and I think there's a few
• 43:32
  people that I share my line of thinking yeah sure not everybody
• 43:34
  I haven't found my calling yet clearly this isn't it I'm not
• 43:37
  bringing any value here anybody else on this earth sure but you
• 43:42
  know what I. Mean, I do, and I think that
• 43:44
  that's a reasonable idea, or reasonable philosophizing, I
• 43:49
  suppose. Philosophy.
• 43:49
  I think it's a philosophy I have.
• 43:51
  OK, Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think passions and
• 43:54
  excitements and callings. I mean, I don't believe in that
• 43:57
  stuff anyway, so it doesn't. Really matter to me.
• 43:59
  So he's telling a story because he's talking to Helmut and he's
• 44:03
  talking about Rabbi Ship and you know, so forth.
• 44:06
  He's obviously talking about it from a religious standpoint, but
• 44:10
  Mike has shown no theology. So he's using those terms.
• 44:14
  You're calling, you're this, you're that, but he's using it
• 44:16
  in one context. I don't think it really speaks
• 44:18
  specifically to Mike, and I don't think Mike would call it a
• 44:21
  calling to follow your heart. Absolutely, but that's the whole
• 44:24
  point. He's telling a story that's
• 44:26
  metaphorically speaking to Mike, but I don't think he himself is
• 44:29
  saying to Mike, you're calling is this?
• 44:32
  The word calling came out. Hmm, let's check the tape.
• 44:36
  But in check. The relationship to his story or
• 44:39
  the relationship to Mike? Follow your calling.
• 44:42
  I think that's implied. Yeah, it's implied, but that's.
• 44:45
  Not because of the implication. Hmm, that's where.
• 44:48
  But of course it's implied if it's implicated.
• 44:50
  I don't see it that way, but good on you for.
• 44:52
  It thank you. Appreciate that.
• 44:53
  That that's the crux. Then you're saying that's the
• 44:55
  reason why it's not on that word.
• 44:56
  That's it. Wow.
• 44:59
  It's getting too hard. No, no, I'll get into more
• 45:03
  detail at the end, state at the end, and I'll give you the whole
• 45:06
  skinny. But anyways, fortunately, if he
• 45:08
  wants to follow his calling, he's got a clear path.
• 45:12
  That's right, because his apartment is a little emptier.
• 45:15
  Joe's gone. Thank goodness.
• 45:18
  And you know what? In the poker game of life, Phil
• 45:21
  the woman are the rake. Ain't that the?
• 45:23
  Truth. Yeah, it's not a real saying,
• 45:26
  but as Worm says, it should. Be it should be.
• 45:29
  What's the rate? You know what the rake is.
• 45:31
  Take all the chips. Yes, of course, you get it.
• 45:35
  You've been to Vegas. My question is though, have you
• 45:38
  ever been to Atlantic City? Never.
• 45:40
  Would you like to go? Not with me.
• 45:42
  I'm not allowed. I'm dating Joe.
• 45:47
  That's my girl. You're on her side.
• 45:49
  Yeah. No, I don't really have much
• 45:51
  interest in Atlantic City. That's too bad, they have a
• 45:53
  really great relaxing therapists or.
• 45:56
  Whatever. But this is a nice change of
• 46:00
  pace. Let's get out of town for a bit.
• 46:02
  You know, change of scenery, shake things up a little bit,
• 46:05
  but. He's.
• 46:05
  Back in the game really at this point that means got nothing
• 46:07
  holding him back No, he says let's play some fucking card he
• 46:10
  does finally ready he's he's. Off tease me.
• 46:13
  Yeah, the governor has been removed.
• 46:15
  The throttle is released. Yeah, let's go.
• 46:18
  In Atlantic City, and who does he run into but every single
• 46:21
  person he played with in New York?
• 46:23
  The only person I didn't like seeing there for whatever reason
• 46:25
  was Petra. I think she's running her own
• 46:27
  joint, but I guess it's an event that if you're in that world,
• 46:31
  you wanna go. Yeah, yeah, I get it.
• 46:33
  That's. Cool chance to keep playing
• 46:35
  right? Like you're running a thing, but
• 46:36
  the whole thing is you're just bouncing and cycling and making
• 46:39
  your rounds. So yeah, a lot of familiar faces
• 46:41
  being conditions back and honor of Mike, he's gonna just sit and
• 46:45
  watch, you know, not do his grinding thing.
• 46:48
  Classic Danish. And then a montage.
• 46:50
  Phil. Yeah, yeah.
• 46:52
  Then a while, this is fun. Yeah, you get a little voice
• 46:55
  over again, kicking back in about how this tourists are
• 46:57
  gonna get taken advantage. Of I just wrote down Tell
• 47:01
  Central. This is where you just get a
• 47:03
  different type of tell for every couple that comes up.
• 47:06
  I don't want to say overexaggerated, but very
• 47:08
  stereotypical kind of characters.
• 47:10
  Totally, Yeah. One of the things when I was
• 47:12
  playing poker when I first started, I was so cheap and so
• 47:16
  hyper conscious of it that I would only really go in when I
• 47:20
  had good pocket cards strategy. It's so easy to tell, however.
• 47:25
  So it's like no fold, fold, fold, fold.
• 47:28
  You have it all, check, fold. And then I'm like 50 bucks and
• 47:32
  it just goes, I'm out, right? Because you sat there for two
• 47:35
  hours taking no money, and now you're like, OK, well, he's got
• 47:38
  something. So you're not a.
• 47:39
  Very good poker player. I've gotten better overtime but
• 47:42
  but it is about playing the man because I could.
• 47:44
  To a certain extent, I alluded to at the beginning of this
• 47:47
  episode that I have some experience when Texas Holdem
• 47:50
  became sort of a thing we would play at the cottage.
• 47:54
  Perfect timing. For.
• 47:55
  It we play for the food money that we put in 1020 bucks five
• 47:59
  of us and in the later you have a problem.
• 48:02
  I can't believe. You were near.
• 48:04
  This is years ago, I don't do it anymore.
• 48:06
  No, no, no. But this is pre drinking Dave.
• 48:09
  OK? No Sir, there's no such thing.
• 48:13
  Every tricky day. What the hell is that even?
• 48:15
  Mean that was four years. Old Yeah, that was my yeah,
• 48:18
  sorry when I was 5, but there was a period where I played and
• 48:21
  I was drinking OK. I feared OK, I was pretty good
• 48:24
  player, but then I quit 2017 OK, and we still continue to play.
• 48:29
  My strategy completely changed. I won almost every.
• 48:31
  Year. Oh wow, they couldn't reach you
• 48:33
  anymore? Well, I'm doing a better job of
• 48:35
  reading them. They're drinking, don't have
• 48:37
  the. Patience there, you.
• 48:38
  Go. I'm just waiting it out and I
• 48:40
  got pretty good at fake checking.
• 48:44
  Yeah, maybe that's a better. Term for it and then going in
• 48:46
  for the kill. So I was pretty competitive, lot
• 48:49
  of fun. I would never last with players
• 48:51
  that I don't know. Of course not.
• 48:52
  So I'm not in that world. I don't want to be.
• 48:54
  I have no desire to. Be it's not your calling.
• 48:57
  It, that's right. But I enjoy it from a
• 49:00
  recreational, yeah, point of view.
• 49:02
  I have it under control. Yeah, like whether it's money or
• 49:04
  it's, you know, pretzels or whatever, the sort of different
• 49:08
  mode cigarettes, if you know whatever it is, you know.
• 49:11
  Hopefully it never comes to. That, but anyway, I've always
• 49:14
  enjoyed playing cards in general.
• 49:15
  Poker in particular. Yeah, always Texas Holden.
• 49:17
  Yeah, I remember your game. I.
• 49:20
  Know about that but if you remember as a kid poker was a
• 49:22
  completely different thing you're allowed to have three
• 49:25
  rounds and you could pick up two cards every round that he kind
• 49:27
  of Yeah well those are like different types right from stud
• 49:30
  versus 7 cards but hold them really.
• 49:32
  Took a hold. It really did of it, and really.
• 49:35
  Became it was all the rage that early 2000s when I was in
• 49:37
  Vancouver. It's like I bought a $300 chip
• 49:39
  set. Yeah, like 6 seasons of the WPT
• 49:42
  box sets on DVD. I would watch it on the WPBT
• 49:45
  channel. Vince Van Patten was my boy.
• 49:47
  Red cable. Back views and.
• 49:49
  Yeah, all these guys were all over, like all these people were
• 49:52
  people. I would be able to recognize a
• 49:54
  couple of them. Sure, I may have watched it for
• 49:56
  5/10/15 minutes here and there was really nothing else on, but
• 49:59
  I can't say I enjoyed watching it on TV and didn't really
• 50:03
  follow it. Sure, that perspective, but it.
• 50:05
  It got its hooks in me, yeah, but just not even the playing of
• 50:08
  it, although we like that too. But really, I just loved
• 50:11
  watching the drama of it was. There I do like that shade of
• 50:13
  green the felt the felt I love felt the pool table of it the
• 50:18
  right weight chips if you remember the cheap ones you.
• 50:22
  Get bought the big hundreds of dollars.
• 50:25
  It's gorgeous. Got a game going?
• 50:26
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're calling.
• 50:28
  You ready? Let me check with Joe first.
• 50:35
  Actually funny thing is in the next scene he's watching on VHS.
• 50:42
  1998, my man. The game yeah, you know,
• 50:44
  quality. 4 Chan Petra swings by. Yeah yeah, now.
• 50:51
  Yeah, this is those condoms. This is an upgrade.
• 50:53
  That's right. I'm reaching for the I'm.
• 50:56
  I'm not a fan of her. Like I'm not attracted to Petra.
• 50:59
  I'm not going to lie to you. Fair.
• 51:01
  I'll say right now I prefer Joe, OK?
• 51:04
  I mean, that is more my type of from a pure attraction
• 51:08
  perspective, but the rest of it would just kill my soul.
• 51:11
  Now, this doesn't matter who we're attracted to.
• 51:12
  I don't know why we bring it up. I just want people to know this
• 51:15
  is what I like. We all know from last week.
• 51:19
  Right, it's very clear. Very clear.
• 51:20
  Yes, neither of these two fit that description.
• 51:23
  I'm really banking on my wife is not listening to this show.
• 51:27
  I think she's still in season 2, so I got.
• 51:29
  Time, you're fine. She ever catches up, but he
• 51:32
  finds out and he plays it like he knew that worm has him in
• 51:38
  7007. G's in the hole.
• 51:40
  Do me a favor, cut him off. Yeah, yeah, just casually, but
• 51:44
  his blood is. Don't know if it's boiling, but
• 51:47
  he's not pleased. Percolating.
• 51:50
  I'd be pretty upset too. However, I don't think he did a
• 51:54
  good enough job to prevent this. Sure.
• 51:56
  You know who Worm is. They have a history to a certain
• 51:59
  extent. You'd need to be better at maybe
• 52:02
  keeping some tabs or communicating better with Petra
• 52:06
  from the beginning, like we said.
• 52:08
  My issue with that a little bit was that he was already informed
• 52:11
  that he was stinking up the joint.
• 52:13
  Yeah, that's true. And then the stuff in there
• 52:15
  warning in Atlantic City kind of goes a little bit sideways.
• 52:17
  And now there's this, at some point, one of the issues I have,
• 52:21
  and it comes off obviously much later, but it's it's this guy,
• 52:25
  it's not worth this trouble. And I wondered at some point,
• 52:29
  when do you like pull the RIP cord?
• 52:30
  He is on a toxic level. He is at a 6 1/2 seven now.
• 52:37
  OK, maybe an 8. Who am I kidding here?
• 52:38
  This is not cool. Like 7 grand is a lot of money.
• 52:42
  Yeah, like, come on. And obviously lying about it.
• 52:45
  He still owes the 15 G's to grandma.
• 52:47
  But the bigger problem is Petra is wearing her jacket with the
• 52:52
  one shoulder exposed. Like the jackets falling off the
• 52:54
  one shoulder. That's why I didn't like her.
• 52:58
  Now I remember I hate that look. Jesus Christ, OK.
• 53:02
  What are you doing? Here cover your shoulders, your
• 53:04
  shoulders other you want to hijab.
• 53:07
  The way here but I'm just saying just it looks stupid.
• 53:10
  OK, maybe I'm just getting old and not cool anymore.
• 53:14
  Yeah, soldiers are still. But the jackets designed to wear
• 53:17
  properly, it's not designed to be.
• 53:19
  Pants are supposed. To lay down your.
• 53:21
  Arms too. Don't get me started on that.
• 53:23
  I mean, you know. Speaking of prison and for
• 53:27
  business is what that means. Apparently with the Internet
• 53:31
  says actually I wrote down toxic level near maximum.
• 53:35
  Oh, that's that's what actually I wrote down here.
• 53:38
  But we do get to see grandma in one piece pajamas.
• 53:41
  Speaking of apparel, I don't know which ones worse.
• 53:44
  I don't think I'd want that lifestyle at all.
• 53:47
  Like, I don't know sure the money's there, but just sitting
• 53:50
  eating ice cream and that's perfect.
• 53:51
  Non attractive hookers. Yeah, that part like, come on,
• 53:54
  what are we doing? Here, the ice cream in the
• 53:55
  pajamas. Like the ice cream depending on
• 53:57
  the flavor. Does he kill that dog?
• 53:59
  No, he just kicks it. I thought you might have a
• 54:02
  comment. That would put us at like 6 or 7
• 54:05
  movies. In the last night, it's really
• 54:07
  weird. It's not intentional.
• 54:08
  I know it's not. It's a very small scene.
• 54:10
  Yeah, but as I watch, it's like, oh shit, yeah, I'm gonna have to
• 54:13
  talk about this. But it's very pivotal.
• 54:16
  No. Yeah.
• 54:17
  The scene, would you agree, amps it up?
• 54:18
  Yeah, it does amp up the stakes. This movie, it's all about the
• 54:22
  steaks, Steaks. Steaks on steaks.
• 54:24
  Is this another don't like situation for you?
• 54:27
  Mike's reaction or worms overreaction of his beef with
• 54:32
  grandma? Like what do you think about
• 54:34
  this scene? I don't mind it.
• 54:36
  It pushes the story forward, it galvanizes them, it gives them a
• 54:39
  mission. Because up until now, we've just
• 54:40
  had Worm fucking things up with no real purpose, and Mike, for
• 54:45
  better, for worse, fucking things up on his end but no real
• 54:48
  purpose. The divergent paths are now
• 54:51
  aligned. They have a mission, there's a
• 54:53
  goal, there's a point. So to me, this is necessary for
• 54:55
  filmmaking. I would agree with that.
• 54:57
  It's just frustrating when it seems like Mike Scott.
• 55:01
  Things cooled down, yeah, and that's the issue.
• 55:04
  The hot head. Jeremy Renner appears.
• 55:06
  That's right. And this is the commentary,
• 55:08
  right? Is this too much like the town?
• 55:10
  Because I think at this point I'm like, you're done, you're 15
• 55:14
  G's in, that's your responsibility.
• 55:16
  What am I doing here? What's Mike even like saying?
• 55:19
  That's on me now. And then maybe it's because, OK,
• 55:21
  we've got this history. I've never been that loyal to
• 55:23
  anybody in my life, certainly. Not.
• 55:26
  It's running out for money. So that alone is a little, like,
• 55:30
  iffy. Yeah.
• 55:31
  And then going out all. Well, Worms got a plan.
• 55:33
  We're gonna head out this municipal game in Birmingham.
• 55:36
  It's five hours away. Dragging Mike out there and
• 55:40
  really fucking them. Really.
• 55:42
  Oh, yeah. This is where this Right they're
• 55:44
  up. 8G's where he's like, I had to play for another hour and a
• 55:47
  half and I'm golden. And then Worm walks in and fucks
• 55:50
  him again for the 6th time in the movie.
• 55:53
  This is why I had to redo the maxed out toxic level because
• 55:56
  this yeah. This I'm just like, I'm out.
• 55:58
  This is it. You're on your own for that 15.
• 56:00
  Geez. Except I've already now put my
• 56:02
  name on that. So it's the movie.
• 56:05
  I get it. But I was just like this guy is
• 56:07
  not worth the trouble and hasn't been the whole time.
• 56:09
  Is there not bank loans in 98? That's right, head down to your
• 56:12
  cash savers or whatever. And not only does he really
• 56:15
  screw it up and get a good licking, there is other ways to
• 56:20
  make this money based on their skills.
• 56:23
  Yeah, Michael. Alone in lower stakes like lower
• 56:27
  visibility spaces, you can make easily a few grand and do a
• 56:31
  couple of those games. The game lengths can.
• 56:34
  Vary. Yeah, because you're playing
• 56:35
  kind of round Robins, right? Like.
• 56:36
  Yeah, but if you split up, agreed.
• 56:39
  Go with the plan, you get that back.
• 56:42
  They're just creating their own problem.
• 56:44
  And I find that frustrating. In a movie, Totally.
• 56:46
  But it has to happen because there's not a movie without it.
• 56:48
  Yeah, but it's not my thing. It's not my jam.
• 56:50
  I know you're not a big fan. You're not drawn in by it, and
• 56:53
  you're getting. To the issues I have with the
• 56:54
  movie, which is I really like some of the stuff that as it
• 56:56
  happens and I think to myself, I like this movie more than I do.
• 56:59
  And then I watch it and I'm like, I'm so annoyed by Joe.
• 57:01
  I'm so annoyed by Worm. I'm so annoyed by that
• 57:03
  relationship and the ups and downs of it that I think as I'm
• 57:08
  watching, like, I'm not enjoying this.
• 57:09
  I'm so frustrated. And yet by the end of it, I'm
• 57:12
  like, yeah, I'd watch that again.
• 57:14
  It's not every week, it's not every month, but every few
• 57:17
  years. I think it's really watchable.
• 57:19
  But man, these kinds of scenes really bother me.
• 57:23
  I like when there is a problem. That's a movie, right?
• 57:26
  That's part of the formulation. And then there's roadblocks, but
• 57:31
  I like the roadblocks to me more.
• 57:33
  For lack of a better term. Bad luck, Sure, versus just
• 57:37
  stupid frustrating decisions by frustrating characters.
• 57:42
  Because then you feel frustrated like you clearly were.
• 57:44
  Yeah, and you have a right to be.
• 57:46
  Well, I think that's the thing. And Mike wants to be the hero of
• 57:48
  the movie. Or like, the movie is set up to
• 57:50
  be his story, right? Sure, Yeah.
• 57:51
  But when you're continually allowing the same issue to
• 57:55
  happen over and over again. It's on you at that point.
• 57:57
  How could I be rooting for? You totally and I don't need to
• 57:59
  root for. You.
• 58:00
  No, you. Don't and I don't need that.
• 58:01
  I wanted the movie to just be whatever it is.
• 58:03
  Its thing but I get frustrated because like a true empath, you
• 58:07
  watch a movie and in my. Yes, that's what it.
• 58:09
  Is I'm putting myself in those situations, how would I react?
• 58:13
  I'm living vicariously through these things.
• 58:15
  So if you're that immersed in a movie, those kinds of choices
• 58:19
  can get really frustrating because you're like, I wouldn't
• 58:21
  do that. How many times do you want to
• 58:23
  yell at Worm? Don't fuck this up.
• 58:26
  It's tough to just sort of sit back and watch it.
• 58:28
  Have some dance, tough to digest and I have already problems down
• 58:32
  there. Hurt.
• 58:34
  Maybe you got a worm? I would love a tapeworm.
• 58:36
  That's a great way to lose. Weight save you some.
• 58:38
  Poundage. Maybe not in the long run, but
• 58:40
  in the short run. This is the fifth John tutorial
• 58:51
  film we've done, and if you can name 05, I will give you $0.50.
• 58:54
  Wow, still not working. Huh.
• 58:58
  Well, Miller's Crossing and The Big Lebowski for sure.
• 59:00
  Hmm. Quiz show.
• 59:02
  Hmm, this? Hmm this is one that tripped me
• 59:06
  up to once I saw it on his filmography and like oh we've
• 59:09
  done 5 because we have the same conversation.
• 59:12
  Say he's done 4. Sure, but.
• 59:13
  There's one secret one in Last Man Standing or something.
• 59:17
  No, the Batman. The Batman.
• 59:19
  That's right, he plays Karma. Yeah, anywho, no $0.50 for you,
• 59:23
  buddy. I'll give you a quarter.
• 59:26
  Got most of them. And I love this scene.
• 59:28
  It's great scene. Kennish really explains what he
• 59:33
  does. He doesn't play the big pots.
• 59:36
  He's not there to win the World Series.
• 59:38
  He does this to pay alimony. He's divorced.
• 59:41
  That's what I got from this. Mostly.
• 59:42
  Sure, he's paying the bills. Yeah, this is his job.
• 59:45
  And I respect that and like his restraint.
• 59:48
  I think that's the biggest thing that you can live in this world
• 59:51
  is gambling forum and have a plan.
• 59:55
  Stick with it. And it's not about having the
• 59:58
  balls or not having the balls. He has the balls not to do it.
• 1:00:02
  He knows when to walk away. That's right.
• 1:00:04
  Well, just cause of the job, he never is close enough to walk
• 1:00:06
  away from anything. He's never in that.
• 1:00:08
  Deep and I love him as an actor in this as well, and I think I
• 1:00:11
  liked him in almost. Everything in this one, I think
• 1:00:13
  it is his sort of shining moment, because he does explain,
• 1:00:15
  and I mean, Mike explains at the very beginning of the movie,
• 1:00:18
  this is your job, right? I do this and I make my money
• 1:00:20
  and I pay for law school and I do all the things.
• 1:00:22
  And that's Kanisha's world. But hearing it from him,
• 1:00:25
  totally, completely. Gravitas is going, you know,
• 1:00:28
  he's just a good actor, so he's able to tell it.
• 1:00:30
  But I like that story a lot. But he counters that Mike does
• 1:00:34
  Ohio with the Johnny Chance story and that me explains.
• 1:00:39
  Should have led with that. Yeah, that explains the drive,
• 1:00:43
  the passion. I sat with the best and I took
• 1:00:45
  him down. Because we don't really know a
• 1:00:47
  lot about Mike because we don't get a lot of character.
• 1:00:51
  No back story about him because he was busy explaining.
• 1:00:54
  Poker. Exactly.
• 1:00:54
  That's it. But he's saying I sat at that
• 1:00:56
  table, he says, can't remember. It's a great line.
• 1:00:59
  And you get a moment of, oh, shit, yeah.
• 1:01:02
  So if you're riding high on that, you're thinking I've got
• 1:01:05
  the goods, you're following your dream.
• 1:01:08
  I think you're just chasing that high.
• 1:01:09
  Sure, which is very heroin like. Sure, or orgasm.
• 1:01:13
  Take your pick in your life, yeah?
• 1:01:16
  Sure. And they have Kanishka also say,
• 1:01:19
  like, you need a place to stay. Yeah, you need to borrow a car,
• 1:01:22
  but I gotta catch you, but I can't give you money.
• 1:01:25
  And I love that as a person's character.
• 1:01:27
  And you need more of him in your life than Worm, who is not even
• 1:01:31
  in this movie anymore, by the way.
• 1:01:32
  You know, that's it. He's it.
• 1:01:33
  So don't expect to see Norton again, which is.
• 1:01:36
  But it's for the best. Sweet.
• 1:01:37
  He fucked them. Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 1:01:39
  But it's too bad to have such a great actor to kind of exit the
• 1:01:42
  movie. Sure.
• 1:01:43
  But it's not. It's not.
• 1:01:45
  That's right, this post, Goodwill Hunting Oscar.
• 1:01:48
  I mean, it's right around Primal Fear.
• 1:01:49
  This is like the two hot young actors in this movie.
• 1:01:52
  David didn't get big until 2016. That's right.
• 1:01:54
  Remember that. OK, that's his peak.
• 1:01:59
  Ridiculous. Moves on to Martin Landau.
• 1:02:04
  Yeah, 10 grand. A lot of money, Nothing.
• 1:02:06
  No, it's enough to get him. Staked, yeah.
• 1:02:08
  What's interesting though, now that he has 10,000.
• 1:02:12
  One stack of high society. But he only needs a stack and a
• 1:02:16
  half 15, right? What do you do?
• 1:02:19
  You only need to win 5000 and you have MAD skill.
• 1:02:22
  You're very good. You have a lot of options.
• 1:02:26
  Do you go to Teddy KGB? I think I know you have to for
• 1:02:29
  the film. I know.
• 1:02:30
  That wrote that I do just questionable choice, but
• 1:02:35
  obviously to have a dramatic yeah, I mean these games go on
• 1:02:38
  for a long time. So if it can if it's I have to
• 1:02:41
  give this money by the morning, then it makes sense.
• 1:02:43
  But also Mike's got a chip on his shoulder now I suppose.
• 1:02:45
  But I think I agree it's probably an easier way to make.
• 1:02:48
  It I think we saw in Atlantic City, tourists are always going
• 1:02:51
  to Atlantic City. It's all they go.
• 1:02:53
  Show up for one weekend, it's 365.
• 1:02:55
  Sure, go there, you're done. Movies over, credits roll
• 1:03:01
  another month. Exactly.
• 1:03:02
  At least KGB's not answering the door.
• 1:03:05
  That's right. Finally.
• 1:03:06
  Yeah, they got the proper thug to do that.
• 1:03:09
  Yeah. Last 20 minutes.
• 1:03:10
  The big finale. What are your thoughts on how
• 1:03:13
  this all plays out here? We've got Mike talking some shit
• 1:03:16
  and he busts out KGB pretty early.
• 1:03:19
  Yeah, he was very aggressive. Aggressive.
• 1:03:23
  I tried to write it down as it was said a lot of ease.
• 1:03:27
  Of phonetically, yeah, that's wonderful.
• 1:03:29
  I do like the fact that he likes Oreos.
• 1:03:31
  Year or no, I had remember. That Speaking of problems, yeah,
• 1:03:34
  there you go. When I quit drinking, I remember
• 1:03:36
  eating a whole bag one night and I kid you not, had a hangover.
• 1:03:41
  Wow, sugar high. Liver almost burst, but I like
• 1:03:45
  the fact that he beats him quickly.
• 1:03:49
  Yes, just to stop the real game. Let's talk about the Tell the
• 1:03:53
  Oreos. Did you know about it in the 1st
• 1:03:58
  10 minutes of the? Movie.
• 1:03:59
  No, I did. Well, I mean, I knew it in so
• 1:04:02
  much as the camera lingers on the Oreo, but what the tell of
• 1:04:05
  the Oreo is specifically, I didn't tell.
• 1:04:08
  What did you discern from the first?
• 1:04:11
  I think to his ear or how he opened it, honestly, Phil, I
• 1:04:15
  don't know exactly. Because you're saying you knew
• 1:04:17
  it, but. I knew it then.
• 1:04:18
  That was enough for me. It's like that's the tell.
• 1:04:20
  Sure, but the Oreo itself isn't the tell.
• 1:04:23
  What's the tell then? Explain to me the tell so maybe?
• 1:04:26
  I got a good hand. The icing is clean broken, and
• 1:04:31
  when it's a bad hand, it's scraped.
• 1:04:34
  OK, so the Oreo in and of itself, he's eating Oreos all
• 1:04:37
  the time. I know it's so jealous exactly,
• 1:04:41
  but I mean like it's so eating an Oreo is not no, no, he's the
• 1:04:44
  tell. Is this the ear thing?
• 1:04:45
  It's not. He's just he's fucking with
• 1:04:47
  Mike, but it's when he twists it.
• 1:04:48
  I knew it was Oreo related. Of course it's orally, but not
• 1:04:51
  the fact that just having Oreos exactly, but knowing that it's
• 1:04:54
  the tail is Oreo related versus what the tell is specifically
• 1:04:58
  are two different things I do as Oreo related and that was enough
• 1:05:01
  for me. I'm like something to do with
• 1:05:02
  the Oreo. This is stupid.
• 1:05:03
  Wow. I know.
• 1:05:04
  I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Phil.
• 1:05:06
  OK. I feel sorry for you actually
• 1:05:08
  more. Than anything, I would rather
• 1:05:09
  have not even thought about the Oreo at the beginning, a little
• 1:05:13
  more subtle and then go back and rewatch it like, oh sure, I get
• 1:05:18
  it. Yeah, a little bit.
• 1:05:19
  I don't mind being tricked. And you watch movies, so
• 1:05:21
  obviously you really like a trick.
• 1:05:23
  I do, yeah. He's got a new one coming out,
• 1:05:25
  buddy. Oh really?
• 1:05:25
  I don't know. Ticky toes.
• 1:05:29
  It's about that time. Sure, pretty sure been a couple
• 1:05:31
  years. Anyways, it's not a huge took
• 1:05:33
  you out of the movie. OK, Yeah, no, didn't go that
• 1:05:35
  far. I think it's like the fact that
• 1:05:36
  this guy is like one of the best poker players and it's kind of
• 1:05:38
  an obvious tell. I felt it was obvious, and maybe
• 1:05:41
  it's not. Maybe it was less obvious than I
• 1:05:42
  thought. You didn't know what it was, you
• 1:05:44
  just know it's Oreo related. That maybe I thought it was the
• 1:05:47
  ear thing, maybe that was different and maybe I
• 1:05:49
  misunderstood the tell, so I'll go back.
• 1:05:53
  It's OK. I just mean in general, right?
• 1:05:55
  The movie is about poker players and they referenced like 10
• 1:05:58
  times. There's going to be tells,
• 1:05:59
  right? Like every tour, everyone's got
• 1:06:01
  to tell. Everyone has told Michael have a
• 1:06:03
  tell too. We just don't see it because
• 1:06:04
  it's not. The point of the movie?
• 1:06:06
  Hero Exactly. Heroes don't.
• 1:06:07
  These are at least, if not our hero, he's at least the
• 1:06:10
  protagonist, right? We're following him.
• 1:06:12
  So if it was KGB story, he would say Mike with your feasts or
• 1:06:18
  something, you know. So anyway, I take issue
• 1:06:23
  sometimes with those kinds of explanations because I didn't
• 1:06:25
  know what to tell was either it just didn't bother me that I
• 1:06:28
  that it did or didn't happen. You know was Oreo related?
• 1:06:30
  Yeah, I did. Because at the beginning of the
• 1:06:33
  movie, The camera, the camera is showing you right?
• 1:06:35
  Which is what the movie does. Setups and playoffs.
• 1:06:37
  So I guess sometimes I don't want that setup and payoff.
• 1:06:39
  Totally reasonable. That's OK if it doesn't work for
• 1:06:41
  you. I just mean, but that is the
• 1:06:42
  nature of storytelling. Actually I want it, but I want
• 1:06:44
  it the second watch like I want to go back to it with the trick.
• 1:06:48
  Play the game. Yeah, that's all masking.
• 1:06:51
  That's fair. I see both sides.
• 1:06:53
  Just like an Oreo, there's two sides.
• 1:06:54
  That's right, the best parts in the middle.
• 1:06:57
  I would often scrape out the middle actually.
• 1:06:59
  I never liked the double stuff. Oh my God, too much so.
• 1:07:02
  I just like. The cookie, it's borderline too
• 1:07:04
  much, but I'll do it. It's the mint ones I stay away
• 1:07:06
  from. Oh yeah.
• 1:07:07
  Get out. I had a cinnamon bun flavor one.
• 1:07:09
  Oh, go fuck yourself, you know what I mean.
• 1:07:12
  Get that OG in there. So after he beats him the first
• 1:07:16
  time, I don't wanna have another problem with this movie, I'm
• 1:07:18
  afraid. I don't even like this.
• 1:07:20
  I'm not defending much. Which has been awhile because
• 1:07:22
  it's not often that you bring a movie off your shelf and A
• 1:07:26
  doesn't go back on the shelf or B you have a real problem with
• 1:07:29
  it. Unless I trick you into not
• 1:07:30
  liking it like UHF. That's right, been duped.
• 1:07:33
  Duped by Dave. The fact that Mike doesn't walk
• 1:07:36
  away similar to why he's there in the first place.
• 1:07:41
  Dramatic. Yep.
• 1:07:42
  It's the wrong call. Like you're out of the woods
• 1:07:45
  Yeah, well, grandma's going to do to you if you don't win.
• 1:07:50
  Is probably not good if you remember that movie that we did
• 1:07:55
  things to do in Denver and you're.
• 1:07:56
  Dead. Do remember that, yeah.
• 1:07:57
  If you recall the term buckwheat.
• 1:07:59
  Buckwheats. Oh gosh.
• 1:08:01
  Yeah, yeah, that's probably right up Grandma's alley.
• 1:08:04
  Was what I'm saying it's the wrong call?
• 1:08:06
  Yeah, yeah. But it's the right call.
• 1:08:10
  But yeah, that's gambling, man. That aside, for an ending of a
• 1:08:15
  movie, does it hit that mark for you?
• 1:08:17
  Yeah, it does. OK, yeah, I find you're in it
• 1:08:19
  like you're like. Totally in it.
• 1:08:21
  I love poker, as you know so. You like the hands that are
• 1:08:24
  being dealt. I don't want the cards to win
• 1:08:26
  necessarily. I want the man to win.
• 1:08:28
  Like you said, I don't want to. He had pocket aces or whatever.
• 1:08:30
  So I like a nice balancing act to how you win the hand, and I
• 1:08:35
  think this movie handles it pretty well.
• 1:08:36
  The trick of it is you have to have something because they're
• 1:08:39
  both really great players. So you wouldn't go in with like
• 1:08:43
  an 8 deuce for 25, 30, five, $45,000, right?
• 1:08:47
  It's pure luck. You have to have some cards,
• 1:08:50
  whether they're pocket aces or they're a couple of Jacks or
• 1:08:53
  whatever the case, you have to have something so that there is
• 1:08:56
  the straight option or the four of a kind.
• 1:08:59
  Like you have to have an option. Because otherwise, yeah, it's
• 1:09:01
  not realistic that great poker player would go in at all on
• 1:09:06
  that kind of stuff. And I think they picked the
• 1:09:08
  right one totally, yeah. So it keeps it engaged and it's
• 1:09:11
  something you don't always see coming either.
• 1:09:13
  Yeah, because of the different colours, different suits was a
• 1:09:16
  better term might take the way usually at the end is much like
• 1:09:20
  the good thief is it leaves me on a high.
• 1:09:22
  It gets me, gets me itching to get to the felt.
• 1:09:24
  If you will. Right.
• 1:09:26
  Because you're like, oh, OK, There's like back and forth and
• 1:09:29
  chips are up, chips are down. It's like watching WPT.
• 1:09:31
  It was all just like part of the thing.
• 1:09:33
  So I left feeling OK engaged for sure.
• 1:09:36
  Good for you. Yeah, and I like that.
• 1:09:38
  It's not about KGB's money anymore.
• 1:09:41
  It's about my money. This is my stake.
• 1:09:43
  And he's on his way to Vegas and love to go to Vegas so.
• 1:09:48
  Just should have done a little bit more to convince him to
• 1:09:50
  play. But other than that, what I
• 1:09:51
  thought about that was Back to the Future Part 2.
• 1:09:54
  OHS chicken, just called the chicken.
• 1:09:56
  Like let's get laid that out at the beginning.
• 1:09:59
  Something similar. Yeah, yeah, I'm in it.
• 1:10:01
  That's right. But yeah, he calls.
• 1:10:02
  What is it? I playing with your money?
• 1:10:05
  He's like banging. That's right.
• 1:10:06
  Exactly so. That worked.
• 1:10:09
  Totally didn't work for you though.
• 1:10:11
  David, tell me your final thoughts on the film.
• 1:10:13
  Here, if you're talking about the ending, I did like it better
• 1:10:16
  the second time I did. I really paid close.
• 1:10:19
  Attention in a cheese home at that.
• 1:10:20
  Point well, once we got rid of the Oreos, once they were thrown
• 1:10:23
  out Yep, like now we have a game you could focus.
• 1:10:26
  No more towels. Salivating Yeah, here we go it's
• 1:10:30
  distracted overall for the movie.
• 1:10:33
  It didn't quite make the shelf. I think the issue for me is I
• 1:10:36
  don't have an in to the movie. I like Damon fine.
• 1:10:39
  I like Norton fine. I don't love gambling.
• 1:10:44
  I understand it enough to follow along, but that's not going to
• 1:10:47
  get me excited to watch it. And the fact that I don't care
• 1:10:52
  enough in the movie, It's fine. I'm getting better.
• 1:10:55
  I don't need to care about Damon's character.
• 1:10:57
  You Windsor loses, who gives a shit?
• 1:10:58
  Yeah, really. It's not going to pack anything.
• 1:11:01
  He's not saving the world. And I don't need someone to save
• 1:11:04
  the. World, you got a volcano for
• 1:11:05
  that if you need. Armageddon is a better example.
• 1:11:07
  OK, that's the ultimate so I'll watch it, but I wouldn't have it
• 1:11:12
  on my. Shelf you only want movies that
• 1:11:14
  save the world Where? The character, not necessarily,
• 1:11:17
  but I need another in and this movie just doesn't provide me
• 1:11:20
  that other in and it can be a little bit frustrating at times.
• 1:11:24
  And the second-half, I didn't like the fact that there was a
• 1:11:27
  lot of ways to make that 15,000 and they made it so damn hard on
• 1:11:32
  themselves that I just like, Oh yeah, he was just getting a
• 1:11:36
  little bit on my nerves. The performance is fantastic.
• 1:11:39
  I thought Norton was great great especially in the first half
• 1:11:42
  because he's not toxicity levels.
• 1:11:44
  That are three. Rackets somewhat acceptable and
• 1:11:46
  I obviously didn't have the issues you had with Joe.
• 1:11:50
  So let me ask you, have you ever questioned this movie being on
• 1:11:55
  your? Every time I watch it, every
• 1:11:57
  time I wonder why I bought a special edition DVD and you
• 1:12:01
  know. Don't tell me you got 4K.
• 1:12:02
  No, it's. Not.
• 1:12:03
  I haven't seen it and I don't think I would.
• 1:12:05
  Buy you would upgrade it. OK.
• 1:12:06
  That's the question. Here, but I wouldn't get rid of
• 1:12:08
  it. There's things about the nag at
• 1:12:10
  me as I'm watching it, yeah, and there's things that nag at me
• 1:12:14
  after I'm done. But very well acted and well
• 1:12:17
  written and entertaining enough that it's good background.
• 1:12:21
  I was going to ask, you know. Like, I don't watch movies like
• 1:12:24
  that, as you know, but it is a movie that it would be the
• 1:12:27
  equivalent of if I were flipping the stations, which we don't do
• 1:12:30
  anymore in life, right? No one has cable anymore, or I
• 1:12:32
  certainly don't. But had it come on flipping the
• 1:12:35
  channels, I would absolutely stop and watch it.
• 1:12:37
  Yeah. And so it gives me enough of
• 1:12:40
  that that I wanna watch it anytime I put it in.
• 1:12:43
  So every few years I find myself fully engaged, and I have the
• 1:12:46
  same frustration. Was never any better, but it's
• 1:12:49
  never any worse either. Consistent.
• 1:12:51
  Yeah, I wouldn't put it in the Echelon Echelon movies, but it's
• 1:12:56
  really watchable and it's about gambling and poker.
• 1:12:58
  Yeah, of course. I mean, you have that in now.
• 1:13:00
  If you had cable TV, you may not need it on your shelf because it
• 1:13:03
  would be the type. That would be showing up pretty
• 1:13:06
  often. So that's kind of my take away.
• 1:13:08
  It stays on the shelf because I know that in a couple of years
• 1:13:11
  I'm gonna wanna watch it again and I'll have the same internal
• 1:13:14
  conversation that we're having now, so.
• 1:13:16
  Let me know when that happens. They want to convince you that
• 1:13:19
  Joe's not that bad. Oh, that's never good.
• 1:13:22
  That's my goal if I were to have this movie on my shelf, would be
• 1:13:24
  for that sole purpose, just to stick, just to put together a
• 1:13:27
  case. If you take you to court and say
• 1:13:32
  Joe's not that. Bad.
• 1:13:33
  Well, we'll let the audience decide.
• 1:13:35
  Comment on the Facebook page if you pro Joe or.
• 1:13:38
  Not it's right, but want to make it very divisive?
• 1:13:42
  Yeah, absolutely do. On social media, that's exactly
• 1:13:44
  one side or the other. You don't know nuance.
• 1:13:47
  No, Yes or no? David, let's tell me and the
• 1:13:51
  listeners give us a little taste of what might be coming off your
• 1:13:54
  shelf next. Week.
• 1:13:55
  Actually, my movie there is a little bit of a gamble, but it's
• 1:13:59
  not its main focus. OK, the movie is actually themed
• 1:14:04
  to the time of year, which I don't do very often.
• 1:14:07
  No, with some preparation, we finally have it.
• 1:14:10
  OK. Yeah.
• 1:14:10
  So we're April. Yes, and it is it my birthday.
• 1:14:13
  You're moving out. For my birthday, it's sports
• 1:14:15
  related. OK, I'll give you that.
• 1:14:17
  Much. All right, Well, it's all A roll
• 1:14:18
  of the dice. We'll see how it plays out,
• 1:14:20
  folks. Thanks for joining us this week.
• 1:14:21
  Please rate US five stars on your podcaster of choice.
• 1:14:25
  Subscribes intermission episode and to share it with any
• 1:14:27
  rounders and grinders you know. It's a good idea.
• 1:14:29
  Good luck. It's not about luck and skill,
• 1:14:31
  David. Sometimes you have to tell.
• 1:14:32
  You.