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Spiritual Warfare Strategies: Engaging the Spirit Realm in Daily Life · Goodlife Church Formation Podcast

• Rebecca Connett: ⁓ that's so horrible, I'm sorry. Jack O'Brien: Welcome back to another episode of this podcast, the Good Life Podcast, and we are here. Dave Connett: We're here Jack, we're ready to go. Pastor Rebecca Conant, are you ready to go? You ready to do it? Rebecca Connett: No. No. Definitely not ready to do. Jack O'Brien: We pressed record at just the right time. it is, we are halfway through our ultimate fighting championship, ⁓ series at good life, spiritual warfare, fighting to win all that fun stuff. Bex, you preached yesterday, ⁓ on a scale of one to 10. How fun was it? Rebecca Connett: I did. It was fun. Last night was super fun, actually. I wish last night had got recorded because it went a little bit wild. Jack O'Brien: what made last night different to the morning. Rebecca Connett: ⁓ Look, it's interesting actually. ⁓ I thought the morning was a great service but there was something, there was a really high level of faith in the room last night, like palpable and ⁓ makes it very easy to preach in that atmosphere and yeah. So God was, God really moved last night. I feel like it was a really special service to be honest. Yeah. Dave Connett: Yeah, it was great fun. Jack O'Brien: How do you define a great level of faith in the room? Like as a preacher, as a senior pastor, for you both, what do you sense or what are you feeling? What are you looking for in a Sunday service? And then ⁓ what pastoral encouragement would you have to Good Life is listening to this to be able to bring a spirit of faith or lift that atmosphere of faith? Rebecca Connett: Mmm. Do you want to go first, Dave? And I'll bounce off. Dave Connett: Yeah, look, Jack, I think ⁓ I'm in a certain probably cultural responses that are indicative of faith in the room. ⁓ And I think you've got to separate the deal between ⁓ solish and from the spirit. And so, I mean, you can have hype. And the problem is those that don't enjoy hype sometimes then forget the. the enthusiasm, God, the Zoe life, the God within that expression. And there's so many expressions in the Psalms and all the way through the scriptures about people that were filled with faith and had a response where it actually became demonstrative. so it's overcoming the sometimes people aren't comfortable with hype. So therefore they throw the baby out with the bath water. ⁓ But also by the same token, some people are very comfortable with hype and therefore we think that's high faith and it's not. think it's actually there's a faith response which is faith without works is dead. And so it's looking in a room like, I mean, I could tell even in a room, I preach in lot of different rooms, I can sense people are leaning in. There's almost a posture. There's almost a non-verbal because faith without works is dead. I think if there's a room that's used to giving an amen and encouragement, it's going to be a few of those. But you're looking for an amen. You're looking for people to clap. You're looking for people to respond. You're looking for people to take notes. looking for... ⁓ And I think at Good Life, I do like a verbally responsive ⁓ congregation. ⁓ I think there's a level of ⁓ health that way. ⁓ But I am looking for more in... Certainly, I'm looking for engaged and responsive ⁓ in life. I want people to actually put it into practice within life. What I don't want is high amens, but no action tomorrow. But I think you can tell when it comes to praise and worship, are people into it? Are they spectators? And so I think that plays out in a lot of different ways. But you can certainly sense when people are leaning in, ⁓ which is verbal and it's physical. ⁓ But you can tell that in a high demonstrative culture room and a low demonstrative culture room. I don't know. It's sometimes hard to track, but it's not hype. But I would say to people that don't like hype, make sure that you're still able to do those demonstrative, lean in kind of moments. Reggae. Rebecca Connett: Yeah, so what I would say is, you know, I want to preface what I'm about to say, in that sometimes someone will hear what I'm about to say and say, Oh, I can't do that. And therefore just ended at that. But what I'm going to describe is something that I've grown in. and so what I'm about to describe if you are listening and you go, I don't know how to do that, then ⁓ I would encourage you to make it a like part of your growth of learning how to do this right so ⁓ I'm very conscious of what's going on in the spirit realm during the worship in particular. And so there are some services where during the worship I'm battling in my head. And I find the worships where God really speaks to me, but sometimes in the worship it is actually a battle. It is such a battle. Whereas other ⁓ services, so for example last night we were singing House of Miracles and I'm standing there. Dave Connett: Right. Rebecca Connett: I can feel the faith in the room in the sense of, I'm listening to them singing and I'm standing there going, these people believe every word they're singing right now. They're not just singing a song. And I can sense it in the spirit realm. I can sense an openness in the spirit realm. I can sense that there's a freedom in the spirit realm as opposed to sometimes it just feels like it's closed down. Sometimes it feels like there's a level of opposition, actually physical opposition. Dave Connett: Yeah. Rebecca Connett: in the spirit realm. And so what I would say is, ⁓ if you're going, how do you feel that it's hard for me to answer apart from the fact what I would say is, each Sunday, don't just come and sing the songs actually be interacting with the Holy Spirit as you're singing going, God, what's happening right here, right now, teach me what am I seeing in the spirit realm? What am I not seeing? And actually have those conversations with God. ⁓ And so the more you have, what I discover is obviously God responds to faith. So the more I ask him to show me things like that, the more accurately I can sense them and see them. And so, you know, there are services where it just feels like everything's shut down. And I'm like, there's actually warfare that needs to take place in the spirit right now because people... ⁓ for whatever reason, maybe it's actual opposition, you know, in the natural that's having an impact on the spirit. And then there's other services people are coming in. And this is why we always say, bring faith and bring expectation. Come to church with an expectation, because your faith can actually open up the spirit realm for God to do a miracle in someone else's life. And I think that's a really important thing. Jack O'Brien: rotten. Mm. That's really thoughtful. Thank you. Rebecca Connett: So yeah, I'm always very conscious of what is happening in the spirit realm during, particularly during worship. God, what are you saying? What are you doing? Where do you want this to go? Jack O'Brien: Hmm. No, I'll it. Dave Connett: Look, God's always speaking and so we just got to be able to listen. And I think that's available for all of us. And I think God's got like I know God's got a word for every human, every family and every church. And I think if we can lean into this with a spirit of faith into what God is saying and respond to that, God will take us forward. We'll take the next step with him. So that's what we do. That's what you're really looking for. And I can can I can tell. I mean, even even three different personalities in the room. in this podcast right now. Obviously, I am by far the highest sanguine in this room. And so for me to be a bit of a woo woo, ⁓ not woo woo woo, whatever it is anyway, but a bit of hype, that's it's no, there's no problem for me, but it is legit. For Jack to be so much woo as I would be probably wouldn't be legit, but there's got to be a faith and there's got to be some expectations got to be a lean in and there's got to be some form of demonstrative response of faith and ⁓ And I think as pastors we can sense that, but I would just encourage everyone to come with faith, ready to respond and let your faith be infectious as someone else. Jack O'Brien: Yeah, I it. If I may add my two cents, I think that, yeah, that it cannot be hype, but the demonstrative is really important. That is a distinctive of us as a Pentecostal church, as Pentecostal believers, that that zeal for His house consumes us. It's not just a token thought or ascension, but it must consume us. Sometimes I have to put on a garment of praise and Rebecca Connett: Absolutely. Jack O'Brien: You need to put that on. And that is for me, part of crucifying my flesh, but that is my offering to God. That is how I can bring faith to a service. And for me, what I sense or what I would encourage Good Life is to think about is can you come attentive and responsive? Right? And so it's that attention that isn't distracted, but is on mission. coming to minister to God, to serve one another, to bring glory to Christ and his bride. Rebecca Connett: and Dave Connett: Yeah. Jack O'Brien: My attention is focused. I'm not distracted. Now, am I perfect far from it? The screen is ever tempting, but how do we make sure we're attentive to what's going on in the order of service, but also in the spirit, pay attention and be responsive. And sometimes that looks like clapping and amening and wooing. And sometimes it looks like holding the silence and letting the weight of the words of the preacher sit heavy and bring conviction, you know, Rebecca Connett: Mm. Jack O'Brien: we can see when it's hype, when someone, you know, the preachers like, ⁓ we're all broken and depraved and in sin and someone over in the corner is like, amen. Like, that's not the right hype that we're after. I love it. So that attention responsiveness ⁓ ⁓ just scribbled down in the corner there, like, ⁓ you show up and intercede that spirit of intercession? can, ⁓ is ⁓ ⁓ those who been around for a while, when there is a spirit of intercession, when those who have been around are praying and believing and making way in the spirit. ⁓ how we bring a spirit of faith to Sundays that therefore makes it easy for the pastors to minister. Dave Connett: Love it. Jack O'Brien: And it makes it easy for the, for the rest in the congregation to receive, ⁓ it's super key. Okay. There you go. That was a little, ⁓ little side road, but let's, let's resume. Rebecca Connett: Yeah. Dave Connett: Look, think if you think about, sorry, and this might be a great segue into where you're going, but if you think about that ⁓ there is a battle every Sunday, there is a spiritual battle in everything. But if you think to be able to get people to be fully focused on worshipping God personally, but also for the congregation to be a unified people worshipping God, coming under the word and direction of apostolic. teaching and pastoral leadership. There's gonna be a fight. And so I'm not always feeling it either. But I wanna come and I wanna actually shake off everything. I wanna shake off everything that's come with me and just focus on God and say, God, what are you doing in us as a congregation? It's not just about me. This is about us as a congregation. I would say come ready to bring faith, to shake off everything and have enough faith to share with someone else. from the start. so having that energy ready to go is ⁓ coming against the plans of the enemy. You are saying yes to the plans of God and no actively I'm coming against the plans of the enemy that wants to rob, kill, destroy, isolate, depress, harm. So seeds of doubt, I'm someone seeds of faith. I'm not letting the devil have an inch. Jack O'Brien: So these things are also simple, not easy, but simple, but it really is that mindset shift of I'm coming to church versus I'm being the church. I'm going to show up and play my part. I'm not coming to consume or receive, though that will happen. I'm not coming for that. I'm coming to give first to God and to others, which can sound tiring if it isn't maybe your default, but in fact, Rebecca Connett: Thank you. Jack O'Brien: That is where you find supernatural energy and fulfillment and joy and you're on mission. So good life is get amongst it. ⁓ So let's talk about it. We are weak something of this ⁓ series. Beck, do wanna give us the cliff notes of the sermon you took inspiration from Elijah waging war? There were four points if I recall correctly. So what were the cliff notes of yesterday? Rebecca Connett: and awesome. Dave Connett: Thailand. Rebecca Connett: Yeah, so I love Elijah so much to learn from him. I just, was talking really the basis of my message is that we'll think of spiritual warfare, we always think of prayer and decession and that's what some people do and I don't do that, right? And so just wanted to talk about really natural things that we can do that actually have an impact in the spirit realm. Jack O'Brien: . Rebecca Connett: We talked about how the natural realm world and the spirit world are so interwoven and interconnected. And so things that happen in the spirit realm affect the natural and things that happen in the natural can affect the spirit. And so we talked about waging war. How do we wage war in the spiritual battle that we're in? And we wage war through our voice and kind of connected with that is standing strong. It's that standing strong waging war with our voice and being unafraid. We talked about waging war through prophetic vision. We talked about waging war through godly order, which was the home. And then we talked about waging war through intimacy with God. So those are the four things that we talked about. And we can dig into whatever you want to dig into. Jack O'Brien: ⁓ Dave, where do you want to start? Dave Connett: I think starting out with the voice is really important. ⁓ I think there's been a ⁓ silencing of God's people and whether it's in the political fray where people say, you know, a separation of church and state has really meant that Christians have to shut up on things of value, ⁓ which is absolutely terrible. In a democracy, everyone gets to represent and if the Christians don't represent then those from an ungodly perspective will represent and it's filled with that. And so we're leaving our nation or our state or our local council to the dogs. ⁓ Not calling people dogs, but you know, understand the terminology is what I'm saying. So really we're allowing something really ⁓ terrible to happen on our watch and the end result will be societal decay. So having the courage to be able to stand up is very very, very important. And so I appreciate that that was the first one out of the gate. is a lot of, there's a lot of cautious Christians out there. It's been the silencing of the lambs of God in regards to what the word of God says, what's important, what's best for our nation. And I think we've got to be ⁓ convinced. I think we've got to be strong. I think we've got to be principled. And I think we've got to actually present the great things of the kingdom of God to our community going, why would you not want this? ⁓ And so a lot of people think that Jesus' highest principle was to avoid offence, but I don't find Jesus doing that. I'm not looking to offend, but what I am looking to do is to bring the truth, because when you know the truth, the truth sets you free. How will people know unless there's a preacher? So I would say in homes, in workplaces, in lives, I think the stronger and more confident that we can share the truth, the better it is for the community and all those around us. I loved how articulate you were on that, babe. That whole deal of how long will you falter between two opinions, between here's the straight line of the truth of the Word of God and here's where the world has deviated from that place and how difficult it is the further they separate to try to play both sides. And we're just in a situation where the world has... ⁓ where the world has gone a completely different way and we get to be the ones that say, no, this is the truth. ⁓ You can't actually hide and try to play both sides anymore. This is something that we have to be really, really clear. And I think it's going to be refreshing in a world of fake AI and distance, Christians, that can be clear, that can be principled and then can actually care about the person in front of them. I think that's going to be beautiful. Rebecca Connett: Mmm. Yeah, so good. Jack O'Brien: Yeah, I really like it. Bex, you know, there's a few signs for me when a message is going to be right up my alley, not for everyone, but right up my alley. And you quoted C.S. Lewis and Bonhoeffer straight out of the gate. And the Bonhoeffer one's interesting, right? Because I wonder if people look at that and go, ⁓ yeah, that was World War II, of course, like Hitler and Nazis. And yeah, sure. Yeah, but it's 2025. It's not that big a deal. It's just... Rebecca Connett: I'm Jack O'Brien: It's just that party or just that prime minister or just this or just that idea. And then that, that idea of, ⁓ you know, most of us are comfortable calling really obvious and overt things, sin. You know, we know that adultery and murder and theft and all these acts are very obviously sin, but yet there's some of those more subversive sins. it in, ⁓ is it in James, right? Where, where the author says to, you know, to know what is right and to not act is sin. And so, yeah, do you want to maybe speak to that Bonhoeffer quote and the idea of like, you can't just do nothing. It's choose this day with whom you shall serve, but as for me and my house. Do want to speak to that? Rebecca Connett: Yeah, I'm just quickly Googling because there's another thing he said that almost, you know, to about what didn't make it into the message. There was another one that he used and I thought, gosh, this is so relevant. And it connects to that quote that I did say. So I'll give you the quote that I did say first. So those who don't know who Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a German pastor, and he was actually executed by the Nazi Party for his involvement in a plot ⁓ to assassinate Hitler. Okay, now that will mess, I said yesterday, that will mess with your worldviews, right? There's a pastor involved in an assassination plot. You go, that's terrible. That's Hitler. Hang on a second. Dave Connett: Sorry, can I, why are you saying that that would, surely people think that the worst thing in the world, worse than the devil is Hitler. So to kill Hitler is okay. Why are you saying that would mess with someone's worldview? And what relevance does that have to something today? Rebecca Connett: learning. Well, a lot of Christians have the philosophy of pacifism. There's a belief that Jesus was a pacifist and now I really am opening some cans. that he was a pacifist, know, that Christians should be pacifists to the nth degree. Like it doesn't matter how bad it gets. Nonviolence is the standard. And so therefore for a Christian to be involved in the assassination plot of anyone is wrong. ⁓ that would be, so that's where it's missing with that particular worldview. Now I don't subscribe to that worldview. ⁓ I love Augustine's and Aquinas's theory of a just war and I think there are times when it is called for and I think one of the things, you know go, Jesus always said you know non-violence, now we're really off on a tangent now but anyway Jesus you know was always about non-violence but the reality is two things I want to point out with regards to Jesus is number one, there was actually a point where he said to his disciples, sell your cloak and buy swords. And they said, we have two swords, and he says, that's enough. And you go, okay, well, that's interesting. And another thing that you notice with Jesus is when, and also with the early church, is a lot of people getting saved in the early church were soldiers. And at no point did Jesus or the early church say, hey, you've got to quit your job, right? They taught them how to be. Dave Connett: Wow. Rebecca Connett: how to be ⁓ righteous within that role. And so I think, you know, without going down that big tangent of pacifism, it doesn't actually hold weight with the argument people bring. So coming back to Bonhoeffer, ⁓ who was ⁓ executed by the Nazis. I think the key thing you need to look at with someone like Bonhoeffer and the comparisons to today that you're talking about, Dave, is the key time that the German church sort of should have spoken up was in the 1930s, before World War II, right? When the Nazi party was getting bigger and bigger and getting more power and getting more popularity, And there's very legitimate reasons for why, you we just think, ⁓ Nazis were bad, but actually what was happening off the back of World War I, Germany, the nation was an absolute wreck and it was struggling and inflation was high and people were struggling financially and the Nazi party started turning around. That's why they became popular because they were actually helping people succeed again and bringing strength back to a nation that had been decimated. Okay. And so very unpopular point. in history for the night in the 1930s and even the late 1920s for the German church to stand up and go these guys are wrong right but that's when they needed should have spoken out and they didn't and the whole world paid the paid the prices as a result so what Bonhoeffer said was silence in the face of evil is itself evil God will not hold us guiltless not to speak is to speak not to act is to act And I look back at, know, history should be a great teacher for us, right? So I look back at the church in the 1930s of Germany, and those pastors who thought they were being good Christians by refusing to get involved politically, and they were wrong. They were dead wrong, like actually, and the whole world paid the price. The other quote I want to just mention and then I'll let you guys talk is he says this. He says, if I sit next to a madman as he drives a car into a group of innocent bystanders, I can't as a Christian simply wait for the catastrophe and then comfort the wounded and bury the dead. I must try to wrestle the steering wheel out of the hands of the driver. He's going, can't, Christians can't just be the ones who care for the injured after the act. We need to do all we can to prevent the act from taking place. Right? And so you go, OK, if I assassinate Hitler and in the process save millions of lives, is that what we need to do? Anyway, that's way off track, but that was the Bonhoeffer discussion. Jack O'Brien: Yeah. It's, it's something to consider. It's something for us all to consider. Where are we? Perhaps not as obviously overtly complicit, but where are we silencing ourselves or censoring ourselves? Uh, it's, it's quite a sobering reflection, but also I think about, well, how many more opportunities are there for me to participate, not just be a passenger or an observer in, you know, culture, but to actively contribute in writing. Rebecca Connett: Okay. Thanks. Jack O'Brien: wrongs in just what is a small way, but over time, small steps and small acts compound and are visible, but people are watching and it does change the atmosphere around the place. You might not see it straight away, but eventually you see it. Rebecca Connett: Yeah. Dave Connett: Yeah. Is this where, I mean, Jesus recognises John the Baptist and says, ⁓ the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, but violent people take it by force. It's actually being ready to be in a fight, I think, at all times. I think we've got to be on guard and alert. Your adversary, the devil, roams around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. And I think it's the kingdom of heaven does suffer violence. And I think we've got to realise that is a common state ⁓ for us to be comfortable in Western ways and in a quite the prosperous nation, know not everyone's on easy street within that prosperous nation, but compared to a lot of other nations we're doing well and we can live comfortably with our borders and knowing that we're not going to be attacked currently, but is it that we do have to be on guard and be ready to actually live for to defend gospel and to stand ready to actually be strong on certain topics because the kingdom of heaven does suffer violence but only violent people those that are ready to fight will take it by force. Jack O'Brien: Bex, you also mentioned, you know, we wage war through godly order. And it reminded me of your article on Substack a couple of months ago now, but a phenomenal article. You can tell us how to find that if you know how to it. I don't know how to find it, but it was a wonderful, wonderful article about it. Just searched on Substack, Rebecca Conant. ⁓ And so that notion of godly order is a form of warfare. Rebecca Connett: Maybe six, I have no idea. Jack O'Brien: And the notion of that there is orders to our love and priorities. And often that order is in intentionally to protect those whom we love. Can you speak more into, into that family and Godly order? Rebecca Connett: Yeah, so St. Augustine wrote about the order of love, and he talks about how love can be rightly ordered, which is he called charity, or wrongly ordered, which is cupidity. And I just love that word cupidity, because I go like, Yep, that's our world today, cupidity. he taught Augustine taught the true virtue is rightly ordered love. And so when you look scripturally, it actually gives you an order, you know, and I think this is where a lot of people have so high, so much high mercy and love for fellow man. And that is beautiful. And you never want to let go of that. But it must be in the right order. Right. And so if I love ⁓ the guy on the street, the person who's homeless, and I love them so much that I bring them in my home and then I allow them to abuse my children, well, that's a wrongly ordered love, right? And so it's, and that's a horrible example to use, but that's sometimes what we're doing. We're loving the person, the stranger, so much so that we're actually not loving those that we are actually commanded before God to care for, and that is our family. And so we have to have that around the right way. And so in the context of yesterday, we talked about ⁓ godly order in the home. And so often these days that is actually subverted. We used Ahab and Jezebel as the example of a disordered home ⁓ where we have a ⁓ passive, emasculated man child of a husband. ⁓ who you know throws a hissy fit when he doesn't get his own way and if it expects his wife to fix it and then you've got this domineering manipulative wife ⁓ who is actually she's the the upside down inside out perverted mother you know the the idols she worshiped had child sacrifice you know and it's and it's we see it again today with the whole abortion thing right women should be maternal and motherly and you know they're doing is women themselves are ⁓ killing their children. It's that disordered love, it's that disordered home and so yeah that's what we talked about yesterday as well. Jack O'Brien: It's interesting that notion of Ahab and Jezebel and themselves individually as a biblical historical story, but also the notion, you know, we talk about the spirit of Ahab and Jezebel and can you maybe describe for, this is a bit of a tangent, but maybe describe for us, what ⁓ is a demonic spirit? Yeah. And how do we get that? And in simple terms for mine, it's anything that is in obvious opposition to the spirit of Christ and the scriptures. Can you maybe say more about evil spirits or demonic spirits? Rebecca Connett: Yeah, for sure. So the tricky thing about that is that the Bible doesn't give like a bullet point, you know, X, Y, Z of what it is. So what we get is we get pictures all the way through the scriptures. And, know, one of the examples I used yesterday was when Daniel was praying and an angel comes to him. again, now you've got a spiritual being that is godly and you know, in submission to God, comes and talks to Daniel but says, hey, took me 21 days to get to you because I've been fighting a battle in the spirit realm against the prince of the kingdom of Persia, the spirit prince. And so what you have when we're talking about not just the demonic but just the spirit world is you need to understand there are angels and demons, okay? And... sometimes we put them into two big groups just angels and demons but what the bible shows us is actually different ⁓ hierarchies if you like of both angels and demons you know and so if you think about it from an angle of a battlefield you've got commanders of armies and that happens in both the angel sense and the demonic sense ⁓ where was i going with that so when you're talking about demons and spirits There are probably my best explanations. There are different levels of demons and so you've just got low level demons running around and I don't want to see demons in the photocopy or underneath every rock but they are real. The Bible is very clear on that. We know that the spirit world Dave Connett: There's definitely demons in our photocopier and there's definitely demons in the photocopier in the Castle movie. Rebecca Connett: ⁓ In the castle movie, yes, definitely. In our photocopier, it's just that you don't know how to use it, You can't play men. So the Bible is really clear that there is a spirit world and the spirit world interacts with the natural world, okay? And in that spirit world, there are demons, there are angels, and they're very active in the Bible. You see angels and demons all the way through the Bible. And so my best understanding is there's like low level demons, right? That are just... Dave Connett: I'm sure you got that wrong. I'm sure that's incorrect. Rebecca Connett: distracting or annoying or fearful little bit of the voice in your head that is just telling you can't do it the voice in your head that brings you know when you just in the middle of doing something and suddenly this horrific fear this is what happens to me a horrific fear will just drop in my head right and you go where did that come from that's a demonic right that's that's the devil trying to get me And that would be a low level demon just doing that. But there's also these various levels of demons. And so in Daniel, where you have the example of a spirit prince that's over the kingdom of Persia, right? So this is what the Bible calls a principality, ⁓ a power over a region or over a nation or over a group of people, a particular thing. So you can have these different levels and they have great power. Let's not underestimate that. ⁓ The good news is we worship the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords who is infinitely powerful. So they may have great power, but greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world, right? So we don't have to be afraid of it, but I think we do have to be aware of it. And if we're living life just from natural perspective, we have no idea of all the other things that are actually taking place in the spirit realm. Jack O'Brien: Run. Rebecca Connett: So the example I gave yesterday was with regards to when Pharaoh was killing all the baby boys when Moses was born and God had sent Moses to deliver Israel and Pharaoh is killing all the baby boys. And if you just looked at it the natural, go, what an awful guy. Why is he doing that? But what's actually behind that is a spirit realm. The demonic did not want the people of God delivered out of slavery. And so there's a demonic thing happening in the background. Same thing when Jesus was born. Of course, the demonic does not want the Son of God to be born and grow up to deliver all of humanity from the power of sin. So Herod is again killing all the babies. You go, why is Herod doing this? Well, again, there's something going on in the spirit realm where the whole demonic realm is fighting against what the plans and purposes of God are. Jack O'Brien: I think it's really helpful for us not to be consumed and absorbed by this stuff, but to be aware of the craftiness and the cunning ways of, of why we engage in spiritual warfare. And, you know, like I said, there are some things that are obviously demonic. There are other subversive really things that take us unaware. And, you know, I you quoted Lewis, that's where a novel, which is what it is, like the screw tape letters can be really helpful in shaping some of our understanding of the ways obvious and otherwise that the demonic can, ⁓ can be at work around us. Right. Rebecca Connett: Yeah, exactly. CS Lewis actually talks about it in the Scrooge Act letters as well about how demons will use nothing to distract us. I'm trying to find the actual quote, but he goes, you know, rather than even distracting them with big things, distract them with nothing. And he talks about don't have a reading that don't get them reading the actual news articles, get them reading the classified ads. the day, you know, hours will go by and I think every time I read that I thought of you know, social media, how many hours do we just mindlessly scrolling and you're, ⁓ my goodness, it's a distraction. And it wasn't even necessarily anything bad or evil, but I could have used my time that I'll never get back again. I could have used it productively and it just went. And I think that's, I think don't underestimate and doesn't mean that there's, you know, everything is demonic, but just recognize it and live with purpose, right? Dave Connett: Yeah. Jack O'Brien: Yeah, knowing you. Dave Connett: Well, my thought on that is that you end up like greater is he that's in me than he that's in the world. And you want to be not don't be ignorant of the devil's devices. So you want to realize that distraction does like it's either godly or demonic. But all I have to do is stay on purpose, stay focused, stay godly, stay humble, stay teachable, stay in the word, stay in prayer. Like if I can keep those guardrails around my life, I can go forward. What it means then is when distractions happen, distractions, you look at the life of David, a distraction, was meant to be at the time when kings were meant to go to war, he stayed at home. And at that point, distracted off purpose, he got distracted with a woman, which then led to a whole, obviously a compounding problem in that situation where a man died and the price that was paid by David was... was quite steep. And so I think we've just got to stay if you stay focused on God and his kingdom, you don't have to worry. I don't need to be concerned about the enemy. I'm covered by the blood of Jesus. What I do need to be is as in First Peter sober, I need to be sober, vigilant and alert. I need to be not ignorant of the devil's devices. He does roam around seeking whom he may devour. I want to live a life that puts me in the bucket of whom he may not devour type. Rebecca Connett: Yeah, I just want to probably add to that by going on the one hand, you know, we kind of need to look at it on an individual. basis like my life and my family and how am I, you know, making sure I'm not distracted and all those kinds of things. Also making sure that I am covering my home, right? Because again, one of the things the devil is always trying to get is to the next generation. And so how am I actually covering my home and my children from the demonic attack, which may be to distract, it may be to lead your kids down a really horrible path online, maybe all kinds of things. He's going to try every device he can. So looking at it from an individual and a family perspective, but then also sometimes we also need to zoom out and look at it from a nation and a global perspective. Like what is actually going on? And so when we look at something like abortion, for example, that is not, and Christians who don't look at it from this bigger zoomed out spiritual perspective, will sometimes in their great compassion just go, but what about the mom? What about the mom? And yes, we wanna have great compassion and great care for the mom, right? ⁓ But let's zoom out for a second and go, hey, is this just another example like we saw with Pharaoh with the baby boys in Egypt? and Herod and the baby boys in Bethlehem, are we now seeing another demonic attack on the next generation through abortion? And then you can actually see it for what it is. Same thing with the gender identity thing. We can have great compassion for those young people, but I'm going to zoom out. I'm going to go, hang on, this is a demonic attack on the next generation. And it makes you see it differently. No less compassion. Dave Connett: Right. Yeah. Rebecca Connett: but you actually now seeing it for what it actually is. And instead of having just compassion for that one young person and go, I just want them to be happy and therefore let them go along with whatever it is. You realize this is a demonic attack to steal their future. And therefore you're actually gonna have, you're gonna tackle it from a different perspective. No less love, but a whole lot more wisdom. And you're seeing it at multiple levels, not just in the natural, but in the spirit realm of actually the attack that is taking place. I'll give one last example. and then I'll hand it back to you guys to chat is I was, saw the other day and we don't really see it here in Australia, but in America, the fentanyl crisis is just at an all time, like it's insane. And I know if you guys have seen any footage of this, but this is, you have these people who live on the streets and they are zombies. They can't move, they can't have a conversation. A lot of the time they're just standing, but completely punched over so their head is down by their knees and they just stand there. They're completely out. And I look at that and I go, yes, that was a drug crisis, but you know what that also is? That is a demonic attack on people made in the image of God, completely destroyed life. And I think it's not just a demonic attack on those individuals, but it's a demonic attack on the nation, right? And so you go, okay, it just makes you think differently, it makes you see differently, and it makes you pray differently. It makes you warfare in the spirit differently. Dave Connett: Right? Rebecca Connett: over not just your family but also over the city and over the nations and also over what God is wanting to do in our nation. Sorry, there was a lot in that. Dave Connett: Yeah, there's a lot to go. I think if you're talking about the family order and looking at your family, there's a bunch of things where you need to be unified, where to agree on a matter, it is established. then God did institute the family first. He did institute the first marriage first. And so to oversee our first thing to steward is our family and our home and our children and the environment that we've got right there. And so it is incumbent upon husbands and wives. to ⁓ partner, to be in agreement under godly structure. You did talk about that in Ephesians 5 and 6 in regards to lay down your life mate for your bride and also darling, it is time to submit to him. And so when it comes to finances, you want to be in agreement and carry the load together and have a vision. You want to have values that come from the word of God. You can avoid a whole lot of pain. You can avoid a whole lot of the enemy coming into your finances if you manage that in a brilliant and godly way. Same with your relationship. It is a brilliant thing to actually have a healthy relational life, a healthy sex life as a married couple, to be able to unite body, soul and spirit. is spiritual warfare. It really, really is to be able to unite body, soul and spirit with your spouse. creates the kind of place where you are united, you are in love and it really is important to make sure that you have. So if you're not healthy in your finances, get pastoral support. If you're not healthy in your sex life as a couple, get pastoral support. The thought would be then if you're not married, well then make sure that you find someone that you can potentially unite in these areas with. We're not just chasing relationships for romance sake, we're chasing relationships because that is the biblical foundation for the procreation and the raising of absolute champions of the next generation. The enemy wants to take out the next generation we've just talked about. We want that next generation to thrive. We want to have godly kids. How are going to have godly kids? By couples having brilliant marriage, brilliant sex, lots of it, and raising their kids in a loving home united in Christ. It's really, really important. Rebecca Connett: Well said. Jack O'Brien: Bex, how do we, you know, I think about good lifers who are listening to that sermon like, yes, I'm on board. I'm in. What are maybe some, what's some pastoral advice or wisdom for us? know, just, even just then you mentioned we want to have compassion for the individual, but essentially resistance against the ideology and the demonic spirit behind it. How, how do we navigate compassion for the person, but resistance against the spirit behind it? Rebecca Connett: Yeah, that's a really good question. I think a lot of the time, you know, I always... just my wiring as I'm always looking from a big perspective of the nation. But I think to be honest, it starts in our homes and everything Dave was just saying is really, really important. I think we have to learn how to, number one, how to love someone beyond your personal discomfort. So what I mean by that is I might love that person and I can see they're in pain and I can see they're struggling. Because I love them, I don't want to hurt them and so I don't want to have a conversation. But the reality is I actually need to love them enough to have a conversation. And you know, that's one of the things I was talking yesterday about waging war through your voices. ⁓ my goodness, was my apologies. One of the things I was talking about yesterday with waging war with our voice is to actually be willing to have those difficult conversations in our families. And I think there is a level where sometimes as parents, we're afraid to even have those conversations with our kids. And in doing so, because we're afraid... work to have a difficult conversation. We're allowing our kids to be discipled by the world instead of by their parents. And we can't be afraid. We have to disciple our kids. Like at the end of the day, you are responsible. You are stewarding that life. And so I think that's number one is to love them enough to go past your own discomfort. And number two is to God is here and the Bible says if someone lacks wisdom, let him ask God who will give wisdom, right? Abundant wisdom. It's in James, I'm misquoting it, but that is what he's saying. if you're not sure how to have that conversation, number one, go to the Holy Spirit and say, God, I need your wisdom about the timing, about what to say, about what not to say. I need your wisdom. And then the last thing I'd say is to seek wise counsel. This is why it's so important to be plugged into a church. ask a pastor like just go I need help can you help me navigate this please and I think I think if you can do those things we're put in community for a reason and there's people around with wisdom ⁓ and I'd also I'd also also just say make sure you're a good disciple as well like if you're not being discipled let me rephrase that if you're being discipled by the culture more than the word of God then you're not going to disciple your kids right so you need to actually make sure that you're a good disciple yourself Jack O'Brien: I'm not. It speaks to order, right? Right. We want to be discipled by the Scriptures, by the Holy Spirit in community, in a local church under teaching. That is the order that Scripture assigns. Dave, I've got a question for you. Bex spoke about, we wage war through intimacy with God and we want not just, you know, charismatic expressions or demonstrations, but we want the power of God, Elijah heard the whisper. Where do you see, Dave? Rebecca Connett: And that's on you. Hey? Jack O'Brien: Where do you see Christians go wrong in chasing spiritual warfare or demonstrations, charismatic expressions? Where do you see it go awry? And perhaps what's the healthy expression of the presence and power of God? Dave Connett: ⁓ There's a few. One of the easy traps is when someone is really passionate about that is it becomes very much ⁓ the key part of their discussion. I find leaders are able to see a broader perspective because they're dealing with a lot of different people in different situations. But if you don't have a leadership expectation, responsibility and the pressure that comes with it, you can be a one trick pony. Now that may be beautiful for your future. And I would say invest in pray, fast and trust. Essentially in this kind of deal, it's what you believe for. It's what you pay for. It's what you actually pay for is probably the wrong part. But it what you pay the price for. Really. You want miracles. ⁓ You're either going to be in a situation where they're required and you push through like it's a painful spot to need a miracle. But man, I need a miracle. And there's a there's a there's a there's a price that's actually paid in the prayer closet. But I would keep it in the prayer closet. And what it's easy then to do is if I'm just doing that, is to start to see everyone. see young, young men, mostly young men, sometimes young women that end up thinking everyone else is doing it wrong because I'm the one praying for miracles. I'm believing for it. And so it's the understanding that it's done in the prayer closet. My fasting is not done. You look at the way that Jesus talks about fasting. It's to be done privately. ⁓ I'm regularly praying and fasting, my family knows it. My kids know. Well, we've only got one of them at home now. But how many times do I just sit at the dinner table? I'm still having dinner. I'm still engaging with the whole deal. And the kids go, ⁓ dad's fasting. It's to be done between me and God. And I think it's easy for it to be that misunderstanding of everyone should be doing it. And maybe part of it's the thought, if you look in 1 Corinthians, that there's different gifts. There's gifts of faith, there's gifts of healing, there's all sorts of... The gift of the supernatural and the miraculous, it all happens. And so if someone's leaning into that gift, realize that not everyone is going to have that gift. Not everyone has the gift of prophecy or the word of knowledge, nor the gift of miracles or the gift of faith. Everyone's been given a measure of faith, but that extra gift of faith is something to be lent into. And if you want to be an able minister of the spirit with that gift, then you're going to have to be... behind the scenes, in the quiet, in the closet, being willing to pay the price and lean into it. If you want the anointing, what you need to do is you need to deny the flesh. And that is a process of becoming alive in the spirit and denying the flesh. There's going to be some self-discipline in that process. And so a lot of times people with unique giftedness and a high zeal and passion can sometimes get a little bit judgy of everyone else. What I want to be is someone with a high gift of passion. Whatever my giftedness is to be the person that inspires people to want to go for it. Right. Out of the giftedness that God's given me, I want to have the faith to be able to share. want to have enough gift of faith that that is contagious. Not pushing people away and judging them because they don't do it the way that I want them to do. I want to give room and patience for people to come with. But that's probably the key thing I see in that journey that people can get. a little bit skew if I want to include people, inspire people, love people, bring them along the journey that this is important. Let's lean in. Let's find what God's got for us. And so it can be a frustrating place when you see so much potential, what that individual could do or the potential, what we could, how much power there'd be if we all got on board with this. So therefore sometimes people then turn to driving others or impressing or pushing people where we want to be gathering and inspiring would be the way that I would see is the best way to go. That would probably be the key area that I see people in. Jack O'Brien: Hmm. Hmm. Super. Well, that's awesome. Pastor Dave. Thank you. mean, yesterday, when this sermon was preached, Sunday the 3rd of May, if you want to go back on YouTube and find the actual sermon, but ⁓ Dave for leading our church in such an apostolic way. Thank you, Bex, for a word in season with courage and strength. Pastor Nat, who brought such a prophetic edge after it in the morning. Also, we'll land the plane there. Thank you again and looking forward to bringing another episode as we run this series out soon. Bye for now. Dave Connett: Love it. Ciao. Rebecca Connett: So good. Thanks guys. Jack O'Brien: Coco.