Latest / 100 Stories: The Narrative Intelligence Project / Ann Shoket: Success Is Not a Solo Sport | 100 Stories #4
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- Ann Intro and Outro: Welcome to 100 Stories, the Narrative Intelligence Project. I'm your host, Paige Williams. This series explores a question at the center of how we become who we are. How malleable are the stories we live by? And what does it take to actually change one? Across 100 Conversations, I'm speaking with thinkers, creators, researchers, leaders, healers, and peoples whose lives have been shaped by profound change. Together we're examining the stories we inherit, the stories that become identity, and the human capacities that allow us to see, question, and transform stories. These conversations are helping shape the emerging field of narrative intelligence in the foundational book that I'm writing about it. This is 100 Stories. Paige Williams: Today I'm speaking with Anne Choquette. She is the CEO and owner of the list and founder of Ten Minutes Two Togetherness. Anne's work explores power and success for women and the next generation. I invited Anne to 100 Stories because she connects women leaders and cares very deeply about how community transforms opportunity. Welcome Anne. It's so nice to have you here today. Ann Shoket: I'm so glad to be here. Paige Williams: I would love for you to tell me about the work and experiences that have most shaped how you see yourself and the world. So just starting light, just a light question. Ann Shoket: I know. I really see my career and the stories I tell about my career as an evolution and The moment I'm sitting in now, I am CEO and owner of a community, the list of high impact leaders and non-binary and women who are devoted to helping each other succeed. And there's a really important story about how I got to this moment. I acquired the business. I was a member for five years before I acquired the business. I acquired the business in the middle of the pandemic when we were all staring at each other with our eyes rolling in our heads, imagining our careers. like dribbling out between our fingers and I knew how much I admired and and adored and depended on this community and when the founders decided that they were done and wanted to move on, I was like, Great, I've got this. I I this is what I know to do and this is what we need right now. But I came to this feeling about community and the importance of community, not because it's natural to me. I d I am a Gen X woman and we did not have strong community. I had to learn it from the millennial women who grew up with me when I was editor in chief of 17 Magazine. and then I wrote a book, The Big Life, right here. And the Big Life is about how that generation of young women really started to redefine what power and success looked like. And I s and I learned about community building and. by having t series of dinners at my kitchen table with amazing millennial women and it was a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend and they taught me the importance of peer communities, not just like just top down mentorship, right? Like really like what can you learn from your friends? And it goes back even further this community feeling. When I was at seventeen, I used to imagine that I would sit in my office and like a gorgeous office overlooking the Hudson River. My feet propped on the desk proper, like, you know, major magazine kind of stereotype that you imagined. I was literally living that experience. But I would imagine that I could fit all of our readers of 17 Magazine and One High School gym together. That they were a community of young women who were trying to figure out life together. So there's all these touch points in our storytelling. And so whether I'm telling the story forwards from the time that I was a young journalist and launching a website in the East Village in my three hundred and fifty square foot apartment with one sink that I brushed my teeth in and washed my dishes in. Or if I'm telling the story from where I'm sitting now in my home office. the story changes. Whether I'm going forwards or backwards or starting in the middle or who I'm talking to, right? If I'm talking to you, Paige Williams, amazing author and coach and thought leader, or I'm talking to someone from the next generation who is looking to me as a roadmap, or if I'm talking to our community and we're all going through this together, it changes. All of those stories are like little diamonds, and they have so many facets to them, depending on who's looking at it. It's a kaleidoscope. Paige Williams: Is it so important for stories to change and to flow with that change? Ann Shoket: Because you want to have a different impact on the person that you're telling the story to. It's not it doesn't who cares about my story? How can my story help you? You and I just talked about our kids before we started this call and I wanted to hear how was your summer going offline and to connect and hear about what's most important to you right now. I had a call last night with some next generation talent. And they're sitting in a moment of tremendous anxiety about how are they gonna get a job, how are they gonna use these brilliant brains that they've been cultivating for so long? How are they gonna find partners? How are they like the big giant ball of what ifs. And my story was different when I was talking to them. I was telling them I started with the story about know, my three hundred and fifty square foot apartment on the lower east side with one sink and how I used to I launched a website and paid my writers in three bean chili in my backyard. So it's all about the impact that you want to have on the person who's listening. I don't I don't care. I don't care what my story is. There now I know you're gonna ask me. Well I suspect you're gonna ask me. Like the stories we tell ourselves, which I'm very excited to talk about too. Paige Williams: Ahead. What do you want to tell us about it? Ann Shoket: I'm I you know me, I'm a I'm a journalist and a moderator and I like I'm always thinking one step ahead. I never wanna answer the questions. I only ever really wanna ask them. Paige Williams: Same. Ann Shoket: but I do think that the stories we tell ourselves are really important. pay attention to and that we're not necessarily aware of the stories we tell ourselves about what success should look like, about what we should be doing at this stage in our life, about About like h literally, I'm sitting here list like listing all the things that I sh should be doing as opposed to the things I am doing and I had to really separate those two. And every once in a while I have to give myself a little update on like Tell yourself that you are amazing and that you are in the right moment and that all the bumps in the road are to be expected, rather than like sitting in the pothole that I bumped into and like wallowing in it and feeling like I'm never gonna dig my way out of this. Like to ha you need a you need to adjust your own internal monologue and the stories you tell yourself about yourself. Paige Williams: When you catch yourself and you're like, this is one of those moments when maybe I could change my lens and see it differently. What does it take to get to that moment to change your narrative? Even the realization that maybe the narrative needs to shift in order to, as my friend Reagan Walsh sh says, shed the should. Ann Shoket: yeah, shed the should, that's good. Paige Williams: Yeah, she's great. For me, it often takes pain or discomfort to get to that moment of being like, Mm, maybe I need to shift my lens. Ann Shoket: I think it takes time. I don't Paige Williams: Mm. Ann Shoket: know if you can do it when you're in it. You've especially Paige Williams: Right. Ann Shoket: because we're we're like so set on setting goals, achieving them, like seeing obstacles. gonna move around it this way, and then like all of a sudden you've been like w working around obstacles or not things are not materializing the way you want them to. And then maybe you keep going, right? You keep going down this path that isn't really working Paige Williams: Yeah. Ann Shoket: for you. And I think it takes time to look back and say, okay, the story I'm telling myself about how important this thing is to me, or how this is the thing that's gonna be the right move, maybe this is the wrong story. I do a lot of listening to other people who say this is the thing you should do and this is the thing you should do and and I have a hard time hearing those things. Because sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not good, but then every once in a while you need a little space and say, Okay, wait, maybe I need to go back and listen differently. Not see that thing as doubt or negativity, but see it as guidance and caretaking. I think it takes time to shift your perspective. It's time. Paige Williams: Hundred percent. That is so insightful. I've realized lately that and I mean, you know, when you come to know understand something about yourself, you're like, Of course, like why didn't I see this? Because it takes time. But I'm really seeing in my life that I love to jump to the end because Ann Shoket: Yes. Paige Williams: I want to know the outcome, right? And I want to control it. one of my spiritual advisors is always like, But you're gonna miss out on the middle and that's where the gold is. Ann Shoket: That's where the hard part is. That's where Paige Williams: Yeah. Sort of the stretching and learning is. Ann Shoket: whenever I'm doing my own kind of spiritual reconnecting with myself. and that kind of I I get I ask myself if I had a magic wand, what would I change about this moment? And I always say that I want surety that I wanna know the outcome. That I wanna know that this is that this works and this is gonna be worth it. And of course you can't, right? But that's what I want. I wanna know. I wanna know how it is it gonna work? Is this all worth it? Paige Williams: we have a desire for surety, you and I. I think we are similar in that just hearing your story about that. And we're also storytellers. So how does story and meaning making help us in that journey to surety? Are we using it as a tool to say, here's why I experienced what I experienced? Ann Shoket: I think it's affirmation that you can't continue down a hard, complicated path without having some bright spots. And sometimes you have to make those bright spots for yourself, right? D you have to say even if you say to yourself this is a sign, this is a sign that the universe has my back in this moment, right? That's us telling ourselves a story that all is going to be well. But we need that. Whether or not the universe is actually sending us a sign, that's for everybody in their own individual journey. But we need to know that we need those signs. We need to look for the signs. One of the things that I think is so important about storytelling is listening to other people's stories about themselves and looking for the places where you are affirming your own story and looking for the places where their story diverges from what you think is possible for yourself or for someone else. And those are the moments that are really like sticky that I think are really worth paying attention to. We can high-five ourselves and tell ourselves we're doing the right thing all the time. And then we can be hard on ourselves all the time. But we have to the path forward is learning from other people's stories that they tell themselves. And where they think they're doing great and where they think they're stuck. You might have an answer for someone else on ways in which they're stuck. And they might have an answer for you. Because they don't see it as stuck. They see it as an evolution. They see it as part of the process. They see it as a reason to celebrate. Let me tell about ten minutes to togetherness. So Paige Williams: Please. Ann Shoket: after the pandemic, there was a lot of focus on the loneliness epidemic that we were all wallowing in. And it wasn't caused by the pandemic. It wasn't caused by technology. It was caused by a series of factors that have divided and isolated us. But I was very curious about the ways this loneliness epidemic that the US Surgeon General said is as damaging to your health and well-being as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. As as damaging to your life as opioid addiction. I was very curious about how does this impact women in the workplace. So we did some research. Eighty percent of women, eighty eighty percent of everybody says they are lonely. Because of their job. Not at their job, because of their job. And that loneliness spills into other places in their lives. For women, the loneliness feels like isolation and overwhelm and lack of support. For men, it feels like a lack of respect from the people that they report to and the people that report into them. The solution to this loneliness is togetherness. Sounds easy to say, right? But we are we have really atrophied those muscles to make the connection. And that's where 10 minutes come in. This is from the US Surgeon General's report. This is not me. If we all spent 10 minutes a day intentionally building our networks of support, we would de we would take this 20 year decline in time spent together and cut it in half. And so and so We launched a campaign, 10 minutes to togetherness. I wear a little bracelet, together n it says togetherness. I wear a little bracelet that reminds me to do my ten minutes a day. I send a text, I send an email, I send a LinkedIn. It's very low lift and it says, Hey, you've been on my mind. I've been thinking of you. That thing you said to me three weeks ago is still on my mind. I just want you to know I'm still noodling on it. It says, You did a great job in that meeting the other day. I just want you to know I see you. It's some little thing. Not to and not to my best friends. Yes, to my best friends sometimes, but to people who I just want them to know I see them. Who I want to keep the relationship warm. Who I want to have on my team and I want to be on their team. And so this to make that this low lift, you know that you have a team there. you're reaching out to them. They know that you're on their team too. They're gonna reach out to you when they need you. It's like so much better. Imagine every time you wanted to reach out to someone. Hey dear Jen, it's been a really long time since we got together. The last time we talked, we were d and then you have to like spend the whole time reminding them before you even get to the thing that says, Please can we be re in touch or can we like can I a call you in on something? If you've got this warm relationship, bing bing bing bing bing, then It's so much easier. Paige, I got a thing. Can you help me on this? It it's just there for you. So Ten Minutes to Togetherness is this initiative for everyone to build their network of support. Paige Williams: you are a journalist, an author, the CEO and owner of The List, which is a community for successful, aspiring women, and you bring people together with Ten Minutes to Togetherness. What story do you tell that set you up to be the person who tells stories and brings people together and leads community? What made you Be that person. Go that direction. Ann Shoket: It's really lonely in the world. Particularly if you're ambitious. Particularly if you want to achieve. I have always wanted partnership. I think that's the Gemini in me. That's what I tell the next generation when we're talking about our when we're getting a little astro woo-woo. I have always wanted partnership. I'm always the person who says, Come on, let's do this together. I was the social committee director of my college dorm. launched a website in nineteen ninety six when there were like ten people launching websites and then gathered a community of New York City downtown artists and creatives to come together. When I was in the magazine business, I was like the team builder I would go to any I was the person who went to every party, brought her along a plus one. It has been part of my whole DNA to be a gatherer. I didn't realize it was a thing you could do. until way later in my life. Like that community builder was a thing. How about this for a great story? I don't tell this one very often. Early in my career, I was up for a job at my God, I'm gonna date myself at AOL And AOL was the hottest thing at the time. And I was up to run their teen community and I really wanted this job. Like I was desperately bored in my job and I wanted this job. And I remember at the interview, the woman turned me down and she said, I don't think you really love community. And I was like so wounded. And I realized, looking back, now that I'm telling you this story n all these mm years later, that I didn't love wide open chat rooms where everybody was like, you know, yelling at each other, insulting each other, piling on XYZ. I wanted the connection in the community and to and to build something meaningful together. I don't tell that story very often, but it's one of those stories that I tell myself. Like I don't yeah, I don't want your AOL kind of community in these in these cavernous chat rooms. I wanna I wanna see my people. I want I wanna be aligned. I wanna amplify our power together. Paige Williams: That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. you mentioned DNA and I was gonna ask you, do you so you think you just came out of the womb like gathering people or or or and and or it was it also learned from your childhood? Were you did you grow up in a home of of a gatherer? Or was it a feeling of like I didn't feel that and so therefore I am going to feel this need? Or this call. It's a calling. Ann Shoket: Yeah. Always felt that if I wanted to gather people, I had to be the gatherer. And I don't know if I saw that in my parents, but my parents are very curious about other people. My dad will have endless conversations with the person at the front desk at the at the office building. He'll at the At the restaurant, right? He's just curious and interested about people. My mom's a therapist. Not that she's like actively running around, but she's she has a broad openness and understanding of human beings. and so I think that my desire to build community came from a real sense of curiosity about people and also an adventurousness. I see people as a door to a new experience that I haven't had yet, as an understanding of what have they lived that I haven't experienced. And I'm always so curious about that. so that was that's what's in my DNA. That was part of my growing up. Not the Paige Williams: No. Ann Shoket: gathering necessarily, but the curiosity. Paige Williams: Yeah, and you said openness. Like growing up with parents who are curious and open, whoa. That that creates a certain type of person, I would imagine. That's beautiful. Ann Shoket: Were were do you feel like you are the same person now that you were when you were eight? Paige Williams: I identify when you talk about loneliness. I think that I felt deeply lonely as a child, as many of us do. And I was always playing and creating by myself. My mother was an interior decorator in Mississippi. And she would take me to like fabric stores and we'd pick she'd, you know, p picking out, she's a meticulous perfectionist. picking out the fabric, looking at the colors. And in her creativity, I was like on my own playing, trying to, you know, keep my mind out of boredom and just creating worlds and stories. And I love to play with others, but I found myself that I I because of the nature of her work, I played a lot alone. I identified also with what you said about we're always evolving. And the times in my life where I haven't evolved when is probably the deepest, loneliest times of my life. And Ann Shoket: Yeah. Paige Williams: it's actually when I can say get curious about other people and say what's going on with you that I feel the most connected and the least lonely. So Ann Shoket: I think that's right. I think that that drive to understand other people is what helps you understand yourself. I think that that's right. Paige Williams: Yeah. Ann Shoket: You really put your finger on it there. Absolutely. Paige Williams: Thanks. I think I'm so interested in building the field of narrative intelligence because the stories I've told myself have kept me from connection, have kept me in loneliness. And so I had to unlearn stories and tell stories in order to connect. Ann Shoket: One of the questions I ask people when I'm when they feel stuck is what did the sixteen year old you really want most out of life? And what would they think of where you are now? What would your sixteen year old self think about you now? Paige Williams: She'd be very pleased and like, Thank God took you long enough to get there. professionally I started as a documentary filmmaker. I still make documentaries occasionally when something really interests me, but maybe one every couple of years. And so I like to be behind the camera, but my soul longed to be in front of the camera. And I had to go through a lot of transformation work to come out from behind the camera and be with you. And The joy of my soul now is taking that leap of faith and saying, I don't have to be behind the camera. It's okay. I I can still be me and be authentically me and actually be all of myself by just accepting my seat in front of the camera. And I can't tell you how much it took for me to say yes to being that kind of leader. It took a lot. Ann Shoket: back to our conversation about finding points of affirmation along the way. If you didn't find signs that said, Paige, you got this, that you can do this, like that feels good and someone else says you look good doing that, like those are the signs along your journey that you have to set your antenna to look for. but I think that that's the affirmation on the j on along the journey to surety, that says like, Paige, come on, you got this. Paige Williams: Totally. I'm so grateful for the people who were put in my path to say, Absolutely you should do that. You're born for that. What are you talking about? You know? Ann Shoket: Right. And if you didn't have that, it would be very dispiriting, right? It would be very quiet and lonely and and Yeah. Paige Williams: It'd be very different. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, for women, you know, like women in the list, we're we're successful in whatever we do really, because we're smart and we know how to do it. And we're of a generation that, you know, we were out like all hours drinking from the water hose, not inside learning community on the street because, you know, that's our generation. I deal with this a lot w in coaching women like us. because we're good at something, we assume it's okay for us and that that's where we should be. But our story evolves and our soul wants something new, and we're like, not sure I'll be good at that, even though it's what's calling me. Ann Shoket: Been thinking about flow and what it Paige Williams: Yeah. Ann Shoket: means to be in your flow and how to follow the flow. And and this year, five years of being an entrepreneur, which I did not expect in my journey, right? I grew up in a traditional corporate hierarchy in the media business. I didn't see entrepreneurship on my bingo card, but this year, five years into my journey. I feel like I'm in my flow and I feel like I have the right people around me, the right ideas around me, opportunities are coming my way. And I have had to promise myself, I've had to quiet the voice that says, This is not enough, you have more, there's more, there's more, there's more, or try over here, or go over there, right? All the distractions, and to really focus on honoring that flow. And that's been a really that's a story I am continuing to tell myself. And some negative stories that say, You need to achieve more, be more, do more, and go this way. And somebody's gonna like it better if someone's gonna like you better if you go over this way. And I need to say, No, no, I'm in like this is what this is making me happy. This feels right for me. This is the flow. That's the other I'm not wearing it now, but that's the other bracelet I wear that says flow. Paige Williams: Mm, that's so good. Yes. Yes, because there's so much opportunity. There's so many things we could do. But it's like what's a lie. Yeah. Ann Shoket: And there's so much noise in here that says that says no one will love you unless you make more money. That no one will love you unless you're unless you have X number of followers on Instagram. Like we have all of these all of these negative stories that we have to stop listening to as well. Paige Williams: What do you do to be able to say no to that? Curios and some of what's curiosity, right? Like some of it's like, well, that sounds interesting. Like that sounds like a good opportunity. I could go over here and do that. I could go over here and do this. What do you do to decide what is actually aligned action to keep you in flow? Like, how do you stay the course and know it's the course that's right for you? Ann Shoket: I check with my people, my amazing beloved husband who wants me to succeed and wants me to be happy and also has a perspective on like that I don't always see on what's making me feel successful and making me feel happy. I'm so grateful to have my mom still alive and like checking in with her. And I'll she does she would never say any I'm shocked that a lot of people have this relationship with their mother. She would never say that doesn't sound right. She would just give me a mmm. Or Paige Williams: No. Ann Shoket: or like a there's a little hm in there. Or she's not I was like, wait, do you don't like that? my Paige Williams: Mm. Ann Shoket: two closest girlfriends from college live within ten blocks of me. We they were we were roommates in college and we all live ten blocks away from each other now. and sometimes it's just a walk and to hear their feedback. And also they're like, that sounds great. Or like, holy cow, that sounds amazing, right? They've they've got my back. So I check I I'm looking to my closest people as mirrors and to reflect back whether this feels right also. Paige Williams: Yeah, that's awesome. before we pushed record, we were talking about the different generations and that last night you had an opportunity to meet with Gen Z. So what do you see in the differences in the generations and what do we all what story do we all still carry that's similar? And w how does that story differentiate according to generation? It's big question. Ann Shoket: My favorite thing about the list is watching the ways in which women and non-binary leaders are leading their lives in fascinating pioneering ways, their lives and their careers. And that and they're not sitting there saying, like, well, I'm leading my life in this fascinating way. They're just leading their lives and asking for support and intel and counsel along the way. And It's a feeling I had when I first joined the community ten years ago, where I thought to myself, my god, I had no idea that women were sitting around having these conversations so candidly with so much support for each other. I had not seen that in my day-to-day life. And so very often when someone is feeling stuck or there's a narrative they're telling themselves about what has to be or what should be. I'm really excited to bring them into the community so they can see the myriad of ways of possibilities of what is possible in your life. That feeling of possibility is very intoxicating at every level. And it's a feeling that you have when you're just starting out. When you like Gen Z women just starting out, I mean they're mired in Bad news about the economy and the state of the world. And yet they are sitting in possibility for their ability to have an impact. And that is really powerful. Millennial women, the women who grew up with me, the one of my favorite cover lines when I was at 17 Magazine was like endless possibilities. Like that is the idea that. Everything is possible. Not anything is possible, but every single thing you want is possible and you have the ability to make it happen that there is opportunity that is yours for the taking. That is what is driving millennial women, the opportunity to change the game. And so then you think about the generation of Gen Xers. I mean, look, we think we like invented the game. Paige Williams: Did, didn't we? Ann Shoket: I mean, I think that too, and then ask my mom, who's like solidly. Paige Williams: Right, right, right. Ann Shoket: But it at every single stage I think what connects women is the idea of possibility that there is more to do, that there is more change, that there are more ways that we can tailor the world and our lives to work for us. And that's really powerful. Paige Williams: what stories about power, leadership, and belonging have you seen women begin to reject or rewrite? Ann Shoket: The idea that success is a solo sport done. Reject it. I think that Gen X sees it that way, millennials see it that way, that Gen Z is seeing it that way. That No one gets anywhere alone. And for anyone who is still clinging to this old idea that there is one superstar, that there's room at the table for one person, they are isolated and alone and not able to move forward. That we need that the new rules are togetherness and connection. And that's how you create belonging. When everybody is has a shared goal and you're trying to make it happen together. Paige Williams: Yes, ma'am. And it makes me think about the masculine story of a founder in a garage by himself building the world, right? And I tried to fit that mold when I created Oddpop, which was a creator community for filmmakers like me to be able to have a place online to submit their films and win prizes and opportunities. And there was this masculine emulation of story about what that had to look like and who you had to be in order to raise the money from venture. And that is a story that is a false narrative in my mind. Especially Ann Shoket: Well cut. Paige Williams: if you're a female founder. Especially. Ann Shoket: The more we can see power in people who don't traditionally fit a mold of what power looks like, the better we are, the more power there is in the world. I would like walk into coffee shops, the chick with the green hair, the one who's like gathering everybody around their laptop, that is what power looks like. And it's not. one solo guy commanding from on high, right? This is connection and collaboration and expanding the definition of what power looks like and acts like and and it's possibility. Everybody in. Water's warm. Paige Williams: Through building the list, what have you experienced or learned about the role that community plays in helping people imagine a new life or possibility? Ann Shoket: The list is a magical place. We have the power to make books New York Times bestsellers, to make television shows number one on Netflix, to make movies open big. But we also have the ability to help people who don't see themselves. succeeding, who don't see themselves succeeding, helping them see a new way to make things possible. We are able to unlock opportunities that seem impossible. Because people ask, because people give, because we have a culture of gentleness and generosity, because we are devoted to helping each other succeed. And that's a big call, right? We are asking people to be devoted to help people that they don't know succeed. But that is how we're gonna move the needle forward. Paige Williams: I love it. If you could take away a limiting story that most women or you see a common story that is limiting, if you could just say, you know, I just want this story to disappear from women so that they can live their fullest life, what what story do you see over and over that holds us back? Ann Shoket: I would like people to never say the words work-life balance again. It doesn't exist. It's not a thing. It's not even an aspiration. It is your work and your life and your hopes and your dreams and your ambition does not need to be in anybody else's idea of balance. Yes, we are all doing too much. And yes, you will either get it done or it won't get done. And your children will be fine and your partner will be fine and your business will be fine. But like please stop saying work life balance. I will tell you something else though. I used to say I didn't believe in imposter syndrome. That it creates this like near death experience for showing up in a space and not knowing and that you need to show up with curiosity and confidence that you belong that you're there and you belong there. However, I'm changing my stance on that. And The syndrome part still feels like we're blaming the victim. But I've really come to see that the idea of imposter syndrome is by design. That it is the system that is saying you don't belong here and we're gonna make you feel like you don't really belong here. And it's and it's used against women and any underrepresented group. And That the feeling you have of not belonging there is not your fault. That it is the fault of the place and the system that is letting you know that. And I think to stop blaming yourself for that is the first thing. To see the system is the second. The third is to chip away at the system and to get in a position of power where you can change it. Paige Williams: What happened where you decided to change the narrative about imposter syndrome and how you believe? Ann Shoket: I listened. I show up. I'm tall. I'm white. I I can do some nice makeup and I can and I've got cute clothes to walk into any situation. And I listened very carefully to people who don't hold those privileges that I hold and the ways in which me saying it's not a thing. wasn't helping them because they were still showing up as an underrepresented person in a place that didn't want them that didn't want to accommodate them that said, You've got a tow our line. And the more stories I listened to, and the more I was able to peel back the onion of my own understanding. And I still and and more so, I feel like it is my job to bring everybody into the rooms with me and to make them feel like listen, maybe they don't think you belong, but I think you belong here. That's Paige Williams: Mm. Ann Shoket: the togetherness piece. No one has to be you don't have to walk into the room alone. That's actually one of the things at the list. No one walks into a room alone. Whatever conference you're at that may or may not be made for you, there is someone there who's also like, great, we got this. Or after you do your terrible conference, come let's have a drink and talk about it. That is the promise of connection and togetherness. Paige Williams: Beautiful. Thank you. If you were to write the definition of what narrative intelligence is, how would you define it? Ann Shoket: To me, narrative intelligence is listening to other people's stories and thinking about how they inform your own and how they can inspire your own. It's not just about the stories we tell, it's about the stories that we listen to and that we follow. Paige Williams: Awesome. Ann Shoket: And that we believe. Paige Williams: Awesome. Thank you for that. That's beautiful. thank you so much for sharing your time, your lessons, your stories with us so that we can learn from you. And it's just such an honor and a privilege to know you truly and to be a part of your community. Ann Shoket: It is an honour and a privilege to know you, Paige. You're the greatest. Ann Intro and Outro: Before we close, here's what I'm taking from this conversation about narrative intelligence. Anne reminded me that stories do not only shape us through what we tell ourselves, they also shape us through what we hear from other people, what we believe is possible, because we have seen someone else living it. And whether we have a community that reflects a larger future back to us. I'm also taking her challenge to the idea that success is a solo sport. The stories that keep us isolated can make us feel lonely. Possibility expands through connection, generosity, and people who are willing to say, you belong in this room, and you do not have to enter it alone. And perhaps narrative intelligence includes listening closely enough. To let another person's story revise our own story. Anne did that when she changed her thinking about imposter syndrome. She listened to people whose experience differed from her own, recognizing the limits of her original interpretation, and allowed a more complete story to emerge. These are emerging insights, not conclusions. I'll be listening for how they deepen, change, or are challenged across the remaining stories. And now I want to invite you into the inquiry. What is your NQ? You can take the narrative quotient assessment at storykeys.co. It's free for the first 100 participants. We're about halfway through that 100. So you still have about 50 more slots to find out your own NQ. It's not a light quiz. It takes about 40 minutes and it will teach you about your own story type. story archetype and the limiting stories that are holding you back as well as those that can put you into the new story that your life is evolving and writing into. Thank you so much for listening. This is 100 Stories, the Narrative Intelligence Project.