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100k Dead in a Decade: Legal Murder is Coming to Your State Next · Man in America Podcast

• 0:14
  Speaker 1: What if I told you that a doctor once sat down with a patient in a coffee shop and right in front of other customers approved the man to be put to death? Or that a medical team asked a dying man if he wanted to be killed. And when he said no, they came back and asked him again the moment his family stepped out of the room. This isn't science fiction. This is happening right now just north of our border.
• 0:37
  And in under ten years, more than one hundred thousand people in Canada have died this way. Yes. A hundred thousand people in less than a decade. So few people know more about this issue than my guest today. Alex Schadenberg runs the Euthanasia Prevention Coalition, and he spent over twenty five years studying it.
• 0:57
  His blog has more than 6,000 articles tracking exactly how this movement started, how it grew, and where it's headed next right here in America. Now you might be thinking, this doesn't affect me, but it does. New York just legalized assisted suicide. 13 states plus Washington DC have already done the exact same, and Alex is gonna walk us through how this always starts small with careful rules and good intentions, and then keeps expanding. Once you understand how this happened in Canada, you start to see the exact same pattern showing up here at home.
• 1:29
  This conversation matters if you have aging parents, or if you care about your own future, or if you simply believe that human life has value no matter how hard things can get. I certainly believe that. Welcome to Man in America, a voice of reason in a world gone mad. I'm your host, Seth Holehouse. On this show, we talk to real people with real solutions.
• 1:50
  We help you to connect what's happening today to decisions that powerful people made in the past so we can learn from it and build something better. Now before we start, please make sure you hit that like button. It really helps get this information out to more people. Also, please subscribe, share this with someone who needs to hear it, and leave your thoughts in the comments. And remember, every episode is done as a podcast as well.
• 2:12
  So if you'd rather listen, find me on your favorite podcast app. And if you're on Apple Podcast, a quick review really helps make a difference in helping us to reach even more people. Alright. Now let's get into my conversation with Alex Shadenberg. Alex, it's great to have you on the show.
• 2:29
  It's, this is a topic that I've really been wanting to kinda dive deep in, and I think that you are the person to dive deep with on this, on this topic and overall, you know, concept. And so, anyway, thank you for being here, and thank you for giving us your time today.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Seth. So we're gonna talk about, death and dying and euthanasia, assisted suicide. So, I hope the listeners are ready for a bit of, how would you say, a drive down a road that we don't always wanna go down. So Yeah.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Well, at least their their two, tour guides are a Midwesterner and a Canadian, and so we're gonna do it in the most friendly way possible to have these discussions.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I won't apologize too often, though.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Yes. Okay. Well, so let's just kinda jumping into so you you run an organization called the Euthanasia Prevention Coalition. And when I was looking and reading and understanding your history better, it's it's not like you saw this arising in the news in the past couple of years and you or you saw, you know, Canada's fancy new advertisement commercial for their MAID program. You've been doing this since the nineties, if I understand correctly.
• 3:41
  And Yeah. You've got a your blog here has over 6,000 articles that date back years and years. So you've done, you know, back '28 2008. Right? So you've created a massive just, you know, collection of work and information on this, and it it's a topic that seems like, I guess, like, a lot of topics I I cover, it seems almost science fiction to think about it.
• 4:07
  You know? Why why is a government, you know, euthanizing its own people? Right? And and, you know so it's like, where did this start? What what's happening?
• 4:16
  Why? Where is it going? And so I guess maybe I guess I'll let you start then if you wanna walk us through when did this emerge? When did this idea of the government allowing you to commit suicide, in essence, right, to kinda call a spade a spade, When did it begin? Because this used to be demonized.
• 4:36
  People like Jack Krivorkian, this guy was was evil incarnate in the, you know, in in the media circuit years ago. But now I feel like that he would be celebrated and given some sort of high position in a Canadian hospital. So walk us through this a little bit here.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: So what's interesting about euthanasia is just a suicide. It's not a new idea. It's been around for quite a long time. And in fact, you mentioned about suicide. So, you know, it'll be interesting if we do another interview in in a year or so because I know you're in New York and New York just legalized suicide.
• 5:08
  And I think you're gonna notice that things are gonna start shifting very fast in New York because ethics change once you allow your doctors be involved in killing. But I first want to talk about exactly what we're talking about here, because I think the language is very important in this debate because we've been very much affected by this dumbing down of the language in order to make us feel good about killing. So for instance, in Canada, they use this term MAID and they're now using this term MAID in The US. MAID means medical assistance in dying. And it's a term they came up with after we'd legalized euthanasia and assisted suicide in Canada in 2016.
• 5:44
  And it was just a turn to make you feel better about it. Because what is euthanasia? So euthanasia is what we legalized in Canada in 2016. And what we did in Canada is we created an exception in the criminal code to homicide. So if you look at our criminal code and you look at the homicide act, you know, murder one, murder two, manslaughter, you see that under murder one, you have this situation where it says it has this whole thing about medical assistance in dying or assisted death and doctors and nurse practitioners are legally allowed to kill you so long as you made the request and they agreed to it.
• 6:20
  There's two signatures in the paper. Now I know there's a little bit more to it, but you know what I'm getting to. And then they have the legal right to do so. And now assisted suicide is also legal in Canada, but it's almost never happening. But you do now have 13 states in The US that have legalized assisted suicide plus DC.
• 6:35
  Now, just to give you some context, euthanasia is legal in The Netherlands, in Belgium, Spain is more recent, etcetera. But we know Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, but also Switzerland is quite famous because they have assisted suicide and they never had a residency requirement. So you have a lot of what they call suicide tourists in Switzerland. So you made the comment about committing suicide, the government being involved with helping people commit suicide. It's not really actually like that.
• 7:01
  It's more it's more like a manslaughter. It's more like because what you have is a situation where the in the case of euthanasia, the doctor actually kills you. So that's a homicide. They actually hook you up an IV and then they use a plunger to get the poison, the mixture of lethal poison drugs into your system quickly. And then of course, the idea is that they want you to die quickly.
• 7:25
  In the case of assisted suicide, they use a very similar mixture of drugs, but it's like a powder form because you're to mix it with your favorite drink. And the idea is that you take it yourself. So the concept of assisted suicide euthanasia is pretty much the same, except for the question in the end of who does the act
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: with
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: your estimation.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: One of them is I'm gonna hold the gun and shoot you. The other one is I'll let you hold the gun and shoot yourself, but I'll give you the gun. Right? That's kinda
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's right. And if you have difficulties holding the gun, well, maybe we'll help you hold the gun, and we'll do all everything else. But still in the end, you have to pull the trigger is the idea. And the thing about these laws is that you would say, but this is my body, my choice.
• 8:07
  Well, it's not about body and choice and your autonomy when somebody else is directly involved with causing your death. This doesn't fit. It doesn't fit with this whole concept of, I can make these decisions for myself. Well, no, actually somebody else is agreeing to be involved in this and somebody else is prescribing you a lethal poison and giving you instructions for how to use it. So you have this whole societal involvement with killing and that's what it's about.
• 8:30
  It's about killing. It's about ending the lives. And this is a very important thing about it that we don't want to talk about that in society because we feel uncomfortable with that. We should feel uncomfortable with that. It's a normal reaction to be uncomfortable with killing, but this is why we're redefining the language.
• 8:46
  So I did want to tell you that we have to be very clear about this language. This is about homicide. This is about assisting a suicide. This is about the direct involvement of medical staff and killing people. And that's what it is about.
• 9:00
  People would say it's about my choice and it's like, well, no, actually you have to actually look at these laws. Look at the New York law and assisted suicide. That law gives the doctors total legal coverage so long as they prescribed that lethal poison in what they call good faith. So if you would actually had, let's say, in a couple years, some doctors going wild with this and just approving people willy nilly and you get some families upset about it. You cannot prosecute them because all they have to say is I did so in good faith.
• 9:36
  And this is how the laws are designed. The laws are designed to protect the people who are gonna be involved with killing these people. So, have to look at what the law says and the other side wants to sell freedom, choice and autonomy. And I say, well, no, no, this isn't about that. It's about giving the doctor the right and law to be involved with killing you.
• 9:54
  Because that's what it says in the law. That's what it's about. The rest of it is just the sales technique, you know, the flag we wave to make you feel better about killing.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, as with a lot of these these things, they're I think I use a Trojan horse analogy a little bit, but oftentimes
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: But, actually, that's a very accurate analogy, actually.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just go on. So because it's it's oftentimes it's these agendas or these things, they they start off as as a gift. It starts off as something that okay. Yes.
• 10:24
  In the extreme extreme case, maybe this, you know, x, y, and z thing could be beneficial. And people look at that and say, okay. Yeah. I I could understand that. But then it goes from that into it it just morphs until it becomes something that is applied to every other person.
• 10:44
  Like, let's say, hypothetically, abortion. Let's just say that, you know, at some point that they were allowing that if if if if they had to actually do an abortion to save the mother's life, maybe at some point when that wasn't being allowed, it's like, okay. Great. Wow. We've now, you know, saved the lives of these women that would have died and and and their baby would have died, but now we at least saved the mother's life.
• 11:05
  So it's gone from that to being almost a secondary form of birth control. I mean, in in where you've got hundreds of millions of these things happening and all these lives lost. And so with assisted suicide, whatever they initially started with in the idea of why this would be a good thing, I'm now seeing instances, especially up in Canada, where there's one in particular, I think it was I remember reading, and you're probably familiar with this, but it was a young girl, I think, that had cancer. And, basically, outside of counsel of her own parents is, like, her her doctors almost guilt tripped her and look at think about the burden you're gonna place on the family, and you think about what's it gonna do to your parents. And so so she even though she was a minor, as far as I recall, she agreed to then go through, the MAIT program, and her parents had no say in it, and they ended up killing her when maybe she had a fighting chance.
• 11:59
  And as a parent myself, it's like, don't care what the chance is. I'll I'll I'll sell the house. I'll get I'll do everything possible. I'll sell one of my arms if I have to, if it's gonna give my my one of my children a chance to live. If you could go back in time and buy oil before the world relied on it, would you?
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• 13:07
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• 13:29
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• 13:33
  Speaker 2: So in The US, Seth said you now have 13 states that have legalized assisted suicide. So the new states, the ones that recently legalized it were Illinois, New York and Delaware. So previous to that, there had not been any new state that had legalized assisted suicide since 2021. So quite a few years went by where they had bills being debated in different state legislatures always being defeated. And then in 2025, three bills passed.
• 14:03
  So anyway, this is where we're at now. Every single state that legalizes assisted suicide, except for New Mexico, later expanded their law. Now, why I say except for New Mexico is the fact is they haven't actually expanded their law. But the difference is if you look at the New Mexico law, it's the most wide open law in America on assisted suicide. So it's a little bit harder to expand a wide open law that didn't have very many restrictions to start with as compared to what the Oregon law, the original state that legalizes suicide in America, what the Oregon law had.
• 14:33
  So what you're seeing is you can see in these laws change, but let's give you a more even comparison to what happened in Canada. We legalized in 2016 and the original law said that your natural death had to be reasonably foreseeable, which was a type of a terminal illness requirement. Now I say type of only because of the fact that the law never defined it. It was a typical, judo government type legislation where nothing was defined. Literally nothing in the law was defined.
• 14:59
  So when they said, for instance, your natural death had to be reasonably foreseeable, it was interesting because the euthanasia lobby and us, we agreed on one thing. And you looked at different articles. We agreed on one thing. We didn't know what it meant. Like, what does it mean your natural death must be reasonably foreseeable?
• 15:13
  What it did mean, though, is that if you didn't have a terminal condition, you wouldn't be able to be approved to be killed. So that then was changed in 2021. So in March 2021, the Canadian government changed the law to remove that restriction that your natural death had to be reasonably foreseeable. They also removed the ten day waiting period or reflection period in the law. And they said you can have a same day death.
• 15:38
  And they also went further. They said we can have euthanasia for mental illness alone. And this is why this big debate in Canada about euthanasia for mental illness alone has gone on because at first the government in 2021, passed that legislation saying mental illness alone was acceptable. But then at first they put a two year moratorium on that cause they recognized there was something different about killing someone with mental illness alone. Meaning they have no other medical condition, but they have mental health issues and it's sort of chronic.
• 16:06
  Right? They saw that. Yes. That's true. That is different.
• 16:09
  So they said, we'll put a two year moratorium on that. And then of course, they kept on putting another extension to that moratorium because they realized psychiatrists across Canada were all saying the same thing. People with mental illness aren't irremediable. They can be treated and might be difficult to treat them. They might have a very difficult treatable condition, but they're all treatable.
• 16:32
  So we can't be going and killing these people. And so right can now
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: also argue, sorry to jump in there, you can also argue that someone with mental illness, they might be in a state where their decisions are not you know, where their decisions are impaired. I mean, if they're
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Suffering from schizophrenia or Mhmm. Say bipolar or depression even, that, you know, they're they're not in a normal state. If they're in, like, the the the the bottom of the well depression, they're not their let me get in. Mean, I'm
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: It's mental health condition that's driving them to wanna die. Exactly. Uncommon. That's not uncommon. But in this case, if they had had long term, if they have long term mental health conditions, meaning it's considered chronic, they could then be approved and to be killed.
• 17:17
  But the government right now has a scheduled for March 2027 to allow euthanasia for mental illness alone. Now a report came out from our We had a federal euthanasia committee meeting last spring, spring of twenty twenty six. And they came out with a report on on June sixteenth, seventeenth saying I'm to think it was the sixteenth or seventeenth, it doesn't matter mid June saying that Canada should not go and allow euthanasia for mental illness alone. Now let me make some clear statements here to bring it together even more. You are allowed to have euthanasia if you have a mental illness in Canada, but you have to have a comorbidity, another health condition.
• 17:55
  So the crazy thing is you might have, let's say you might have a significant diabetic condition. So you're insulin dependent diabetic. And so that's your medical condition that they've approved you for death for. But it's your mental health that's driving you to want to die yet because you have an approvable condition, chronic diabetes, you can be then approved and killed by euthanasia. So this is and I'm I'm I I mentioned youth diabetes on purpose because last year on 12/30/2025, Kiano Vafen died by euthanasia in Vancouver at the age of 26.
• 18:33
  Now, Doctor. Ellen Weed killed him and she's possibly Canada's most well known euthanasia doctor because she's done a lot of really crazy cases, right? So, do enough crazy cases, you end up in the media enough about your crazy cases. And of course, then you become well known for it. But anyway, Kiano was from around Toronto.
• 18:53
  He was not approved to be killed in Ontario, but he contacted Doctor. Ellen Weep in BC who was happy to kill him and happy to find another doctor to sign off on that killing. And so he died on December 30. Now here's the point, Keanu was insulin dependent diabetic. So he had to take insulin every day.
• 19:10
  That's how he was approved. Keanu also because of his diabetes had lost much of his eyesight. Now he was in an interesting situation where he was, as his mother explains clearly, you wouldn't know he was blind, but he was legally blind, meaning he has some eyesight. He got around just fine, but obviously he had lost a lot of his eyesight. So no one's questioned that.
• 19:31
  But further to it, his mother was just so upset about this because, Kana went through significant mental health issues. And so, you know, we did a a big interview with her and everything because she was just she was just distraught. You know, my son who's 26 is dead, and the doctor who killed him never even asked about his mental health issues. Never wasn't even concerned about that because he qualified anyway based on his issues around insulin and that his issues around his diabetes. But this is the kind of thing you get.
• 20:04
  It was his mental health issues. He was going through suicidal ideation. No one questioned that he was suicidal. His mother doesn't question he was suicidal. She was just saying, hey, he's a treatable condition.
• 20:16
  He has mental health issues that are treatable, but he's dead. And I can't bring my son back. And this is the kind of thing you get when you legalize euthanasia. The other thing that people have to understand is that when you legalize this kind of thing, whether it be assisted suicide or euthanasia, you get a few doctors who do an awful lot of killing. Most doctors have either nothing to do with it or may do the odd death.
• 20:39
  So you see that in the Canadian stats where there you get a large number of doctors who might do one a year. They're not opposed to it. They might have a patient with a, who's actually got a serious terminal condition. And so they're thinking, well, you know, I'm I'm okay with killing this person because they're near to death, etcetera, etcetera. But there's a few doctors who do huge numbers, like massive numbers.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Like, so you mentioned her. Right? Doctor Ellen Weeb. Right? She's
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Doctor Ellen Weeb. Yes. Yeah. She's actually
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: dying with dignity. This is the Canadian.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Right. She's she's one of their advisory council members. But if you look at the advisory council members, you'll see that there's quite a few other doctors on that advisory council who also then they are also really involved with euthanasia. There's quite a few of them. But Ellen Wiebe is, as I say, she said a bunch of cases end up in the courts also this in 2020, that would have been 2024.
• 21:34
  Like I think it was November 2024. There was a case of a woman who had significant mental health issues from Calgary, who Ellen had approved for her euthanasia death. And it was her, how would you say, common law husband who took the case to court saying, my wife does not have an untreatable condition at all. This is her medical condition. This is exactly what she has, but she's also going through deep mental health issues.
• 22:03
  She wants to die. No one's actually questioned that, but she's actually being driven by her suicidal ideation. So the court actually held that case up and said, no, that's that's not acceptable. Even though the court can't actually prevent a death, how the law works. The court doesn't have the right to prevent the death.
• 22:19
  The court put in a thirty day wait stay. And then of course, then the BC College of Physicians, etcetera, got involved in it and said, no, that doesn't seem right. But the fact of it is, that's just one of many, like there's lots of cases of Doctor. Weeb that she's done, but we've also had other doctors get involved with some very crazy cases. I'm here in London, Ontario.
• 22:44
  We had Doctor. McLean here in London, Ontario. Doctor. McLean does a lot of killings, an awful lot of them. He got in trouble because And he was the Ontario College of Physicians slapped his wrist.
• 22:56
  It's very weird that they only slapped his wrist. But anyway, there was two complaints against him. One was that he got his death approval out of Tim Hortons. So he visited with the person who wanted to be killed out of Tim Hortons and approved him at a Tim Hortons. Now you would say, what's a Tim Hortons?
• 23:14
  It's a coffee shop. Don't know if you have them in New York. I know they have them in
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, have them here.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Several states. Have in New York. Yeah, so he was, they met together at the coffee shop with all these people around and he went through a bunch of questions with him and approved his death. And the family thought, well, wait a second. As crazy as this is, isn't there an issue of privacy?
• 23:35
  Like, are you talking about here? That was the one thing that he got in trouble for because actually the college agreed that didn't make sense doing it at Tim Hortons. Why not even do it at your office if you're gonna do that? There was another case of a guy who got killed. Well, there you pulled it up.
• 23:50
  Who got killed by euthanasia. And so it was the same guy, Doctor. McClain. Doctor. McClain does a lot of killings.
• 23:56
  So what happened is that the euthanasia, the death drugs, he went to the pharmacy to pick it up and it wasn't ready. And he had this death scheduled. So I guess he had a bunch of leftover drugs from previous killings. So he went to the person's house and they had family around and everything because they were doing their goodbye party. And he hooked up the IV.
• 24:22
  Now I don't know if it was a fresh IV or a used one. I'm not sure. It shouldn't matter if you're killing someone, but you know what I'm saying? This is the kind of thing also they probably would have got upset at him that he probably used a used IV. But anyway and then he used his plunger and he put the drugs in and then he declared the guy dead and he left.
• 24:39
  The guy wasn't dead. So obviously, he didn't give him enough of the of the poison mixture to kill him. And so then he gets a phone call from the family saying, Oh, it was his niece that found him still breathing and moaning and the rest of it. He's not dead yet. So then he came back and he then injected him again.
• 25:00
  Well, you inject him again, there's a better chance he's dead and then he was dead. So the family put in a big complaint because obviously they were distraught by this. They were distraught by this. Now I'm distraught by any killing. Like I'm opposed to killing people.
• 25:13
  I don't know where you stand on this Seth, but I think it's a crazy idea that we give doctors the right to kill us. I don't feel safe when a doctor is writing a law to kill you. And the Canadian law is actually even worse than the New York statute that I said, which is based on a good faith principle. In the Canadian law, the doctor or nurse practitioner only have to be of the opinion if fit the criteria of the law. So even in these crazy cases like Keanu's death, their family were trying to organize a legal response to Doctor.
• 25:40
  Weed killing their son. And of course, based on how the law is written, it's almost impossible to do anything. How can you do anything when the law is giving them such clear coverage over their crazy acts of killing? And this is the kind of thing you have. This is about killing.
• 25:56
  Let's be brutally honest. And of course, it's justified based on someone's suffering. But let's also be brutally honest. Yes, there are some people who are suffering. But for the most part, if you look at the data, these people are not suffering.
• 26:09
  They're avoiding possible future suffering. And that's true. They might be avoiding possible future suffering. But if you look at the data, whether it be the state of Oregon, which has had assisted suicide happening since 1998, or you look at the Canadian data, suffering is not the number one reason. People being in pain or uncontrolled pain, it's not the number one reason at all.
• 26:30
  Even fear of pain is not the number one reason. That's not why people are asking for this. They might have, as I say, concerns as to what's coming. They're actually trying to avoid, that's true, but it has more to do with people going through a difficult time of their life, feeling their life has lost meaning, purpose or value and seeking a way out. It has a lot to do with loneliness.
• 26:52
  It has a lot to do with a type of a cultural abandonment where someone is dying alone or going through these symptoms as they're approaching death and they're alone and they feel their life has lost meaning or purpose. And the law allows them to be killed. And so they agree to be killed. And I think it's very sad if you consider what is actually happening as compared to what's being sold. And the sales technique is to make us all fear and they make us fear suffering.
• 27:19
  That's what they do. And I'm not saying we shouldn't fear suffering. I'm just saying that's not the big reason. That's not it at all. It's really a cultural thing around abandoning people in their time of need.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Which there's so many layers to that too. Right? Because we're looking at so many of the issues that we have. I you know, I mentioned abortion. Right?
• 27:41
  The abortion rates. And it's like, okay. What's the cause of that? You could say, well, it's it's because Planned Parenthood has been marketing to, you know, these young women. Right?
• 27:51
  They've got, you know, clinical offices set up all over the place. Maybe that's a cause. Right? But you look at, you know, more root causes, it's like, well, no. Because the the culture has been corrupted.
• 28:00
  Right? You see an overwhelming number of abortions in the black communities. Okay. Well, what is the cultural influence? It is a lot of the the rap, the hip hop, R and B that is, you know, talking about, you know, having lots of babies and and having multiple sexual partners and all the things that leads to unwanted children.
• 28:17
  You look at the divorce rates within those communities. Right? And you could say, uh-uh. Okay. Well, yeah, I guess if the if the the divorce rate of, say, you know, blacks in America was, you know, only fifteen percent, you'd probably see the abortion rate plummet.
• 28:33
  Right? So you can see a lot of these things are actual you know, they're they're cultural issues. You know, what you mentioned, the cultural approach to end of life. Right? That it is a hundred years ago or even currently in other cultures around the world that haven't been destroyed the same way that ours has.
• 28:52
  The old the older generations, they live with their family. They help raise the grandchildren, and if they they then they eventually pass away, but typically at the family home. Whereas now, it is everyone's so stressed or so busy working and trying to make money that the parents are both working, kids are going into day care. Oh, you know, oh, gosh. You know, mom's you know, mom had another fall.
• 29:12
  Right? We we can't deal with that right now. We're gonna put her into a home. And so there's just these cultural changes that have really eaten away at that that that really, moral fabric that used to hold families together, hold communities together. Right.
• 29:27
  Yeah.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: And and I think it's based on the nature of the human person, and I do believe there is a nature to the human person, even though we're not all identical. We do experience things in a very similar manner. And we all to different degrees react to that in a similar way. But I agree with you about the cultural shift that's occurred. And I don't have an easy answer to that concept, but I do recognize that in this day and age, it's very common for someone who might be going through a difficult health condition that even if they let's say in their life had three or four kids, an example, it's very likely that those children are not even near them anymore.
• 29:59
  The other thing is you get the shift in the culture that there was a time and I often talk about my mother because my mother, we grew up in a small city in Southern Ontario and my mother used to do a lot of visiting and she used to regularly just go to the hospital all the time and visit people. Like, I mean, she was it was her interconnection with her church community, but this was something she just did regularly. And to me, this was something I sort of like normal people, is, Mrs. So and so's in the hospital and Mrs. So and so just came out of the hospital, she's at home.
• 30:30
  I'll go over and visit her. And this is what my mom did all the time. And it's very interesting and all these stories you get of visiting, but I mean, you see that's gone. This whole interconnectedness in the culture. I can't say it's completely gone, but I mean, it's certainly waning to the point.
• 30:47
  And the other problem is we have this radical individualism in the culture where, you know, I'm gonna do what I want when I want. I've got control over my life. And the fact of it is is, first of all, humans are not actually like that. We're interdependent beings. But secondly, this autonomy stuff that we overly sell doesn't help us when we need each other.
• 31:10
  And so we sell autonomy to the extreme. And then when we need each other, it's like, well, who's visiting mom? Who's caring about mom? And then it comes back to, you know, we see it also in the family life, people struggling because they have their one or two kids and they're like, oh, can someone help me a bit, watch my kids a bit, I'm having a bit of a struggle. And there's no one there in this radical autonomy culture and it's the same sort of thing.
• 31:36
  But with death, it's a serious problem. It's a serious problem. People are being driven to dying. Now we have another thing in Canada, which has then really precipitated the massive numbers of killings because we have it's been crazy.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. What what are those numbers? How many have been killed so far through the MAID program in Canada?
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Well, according to my data, we passed a 100,000 sometime in mid to late April since legalization. So that would be, since June 2016 until mid to late April of of twenty twenty six. So in less than ten years, we surpassed a 100,000 killings. And I call it killings because that's what it is. People listening might say, oh, I don't like to hear that.
• 32:15
  No. That's what it is. But on top of it, the numbers of deaths are about I predicted we had about seventeen thousand seven hundred last year. Now the data has not come out from the federal government yet, but it's not federal data anyway. It's just that the federal government, the Ministry of Health federally is the one who puts out the yearly report.
• 32:35
  This is actually data that's collected provincially. So I've been able to obtain much of the provincial data on euthanasia. That's why my estimate is around seventeen thousand seven hundred from 2025, which would mean about five point six percent of all deaths give or take, all depending on where that all comes out. Now that's massive if you think about it. Now, would I say it's massive?
• 32:57
  Well, if you look at The Netherlands as an example, just as an example, they legalized euthanasia in 2001 and their law came into place in 2002. So when we legalized in 2016, they had already been killing for fourteen years. It's a long time of killing already. So they had already normalized it by then. We've been killing for ten years and we're already at about the same rate of killing as they're at.
• 33:20
  So that's a very quick, how would you say normalization of the concept. Someone say, well, people really want this. Well, let's get into the further thing. What did Canada do, which was a little bit different, is we decided to call it medical treatment, even though it's not medical treatment. We legalized it by creating an exception in the criminal code.
• 33:41
  So therefore it is something that doctors and nurse practitioners can do, but it's an exception in the criminal code. It's not legalized as a healthcare situation. It's not even written up that way. Okay? But because doctors and nurse practitioners are involved in it, it's been now sold as medical treatment.
• 34:00
  Well, we have universal healthcare in Canada. So if it's medical treatment, then it becomes part of your universal healthcare plan. So what they've done is we have laws, we've had court decisions. You have the right to know. So if you're in Toronto as an example, and you go to a doctor and you're concerned about your health condition, you've been told, well, this is your health condition as our tests are showing.
• 34:24
  You have the right to know what are the options. So they have to now tell you that euthanasia killing you is an option. So to go even one step further, let's say you're in a hospital. Now, because you have the right to know, they have made teams in every major hospital in Canada, every major hospital. And obviously there's some minor hospitals that are very small, but even those ones tend to have like, if I'm looking around where I live in London, Ontario, we've got several large hospitals and there's small cities around us.
• 34:52
  So we know that one day a week, the May team goes to St. Thomas. And the nurses tell us, yes, I'm not sure if it's Thursday or what day it is, but you know what I'm saying? The May team comes on Thursday. So they approve the killings on Thursday and they do the killing by Thursday night because it can be done the same day, right?
• 35:10
  So you get the approval and the killing. Now, if it's not such a situation where someone is absolutely close to death or anything, maybe they'll wait the week. They'll approve them on this Thursday and next Thursday, they plan it for 3PM to do your killing. So this is the kind of thing you're seeing. We have the May teams coming in.
• 35:27
  So then I get phone calls from people all the time. I'm getting regularly phone calls from supporters saying, how do you get the May team to stop asking us for euthanasia? They're asking you. They come to the rooms. There's the case that happened recently in Vancouver of the Catholic priest.
• 35:42
  He was asked twice. So he had broken his hip. He was in the hospital for his broken hip. Now he was in a lot of pain. The story is quite clear.
• 35:51
  He admits. I was in a lot of pain. So the May team comes into his room and asks him if he wants made. Euthanasia, if he wants to be killed. Now as a Catholic priest, he wasn't interested.
• 36:02
  Know, they may like he was in a lot of pain at that point. He he makes that very clear. So maybe it made him think, you mean, I'm in so much pain. They wanna kill me. Like, what's up with this?
• 36:10
  So but he was clearing. No. I'm I'm not interested in it. I'm a Catholic priest. I'm not interested in it.
• 36:14
  But they came back a second time and asked him again. And so at what time at what point does the request or the option of dying become coercive? I had a woman called me and this also was a Vancouver situation. Now you got to understand British Columbia has got the second highest euthanasia rate in Canada. Quebec is the highest.
• 36:33
  Quebec is the highest euthanasia rate in the world. They've surpassed eight percent of all deaths. I'm not suggesting that there aren't regions of The Netherlands that have a higher euthanasia rate. There actually are. But the difference is Quebec is a major jurisdiction.
• 36:47
  There's a lot of people living in Quebec. It's not just like a small province than The Netherlands of, you know, 100,000 people or something. It's a major jurisdiction. And so it has the highest euthanasia rate in the world, Quebec. But I mean, this woman calls me from British Columbia and her husband was approaching death and he was elderly and she was elderly.
• 37:06
  And she says, we've been asked five times. And I think this is ridiculous. And then let's go to the next point. What does it mean to be human? So now you're in a situation where you are going through a difficult time.
• 37:18
  We all know it's difficult. Even a person of great faith, it's not easy to going be through a difficult health condition and possibly approaching a terminal phase or entering a terminal phase. It's not easy. It's emotionally difficult. It's psychologically difficult.
• 37:31
  And now you're being offered euthanasia. You're being offered death. They're telling you death is the answer. I think it's insane myself. And I don't mind using the word insanity.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm on the same on the same page as you. And what what do you think is driving this? Because this is where it starts to get you know, if you're looking at prosecution, you're looking at a motive. Right? And I I mean, my own kind of belief is that, yeah.
• 38:02
  I mean, that the motive is very clear that the very, very top of things, there's some sort of agenda or plan to reduce the population for various reasons, by various people. Right? So there's there's there's that. But what and what do you, like, what do you see as the driver? You know, why this okay.
• 38:22
  This small made group that that's visiting this person five times. Almost like like it's like it's someone who's a door to door salesman is coming to sell you a vacuum cleaner. It's like, hey. Come on, Billy. This is the fifth time I threw you off my porch.
• 38:34
  Okay? I don't want your vacuum cleaner. Get out of my get off my property. Alright? That
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Actually, if you invite them in five times, they they they vacuum each time a different room. You can get your whole house vacuumed.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Just to show you how the vacuum works.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: That is true. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so I what is it?
• 38:55
  Yeah. I guess, you know, what do you think what do think is driving it?
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Well, there's multiple factors here. First of all, there's that radical secular humanist group, and they so there's a difference between those euthanasia leaders, the ones who this is their thing. They are really promoting it. They're really into this. And they are highly radical secular humanists.
• 39:17
  I mean, this is the radical group. This is not the, well, you know, I think No, this is a radical group and they're also highly eugenic. Let's not be innocent about this. This is a very eugenic attitude. And if you question what I'm saying about eugenics, meaning if you aren't old enough to understand the word eugenic, it's meaning that certain lives are not worth living.
• 39:38
  So let's look at what happened in Canada. Canada expanded euthanasia in 2021, and then our government set up a committee in 2022 to look at other expansions like typical Canadian model. We're going to expand our killing model. And then once we finish our expansion, we're going to set up a government committee to look at further expansions. So they were looking at two issues.
• 40:00
  The one was euthanasia of children because we don't allow children in Canada at the moment. Have to be 18. And then the second group was euthanasia by advanced request. And the reason for the euthanasia by advanced request issue is that people who have dementia, we're hearing stories from and articles in our newspapers from the other side, Oh, it's terrible that my mom couldn't have euthanasia because she never requested it. Now she's incompetent, so they won't allow her to have it.
• 40:27
  What do you mean? You wanna kill off all these people with dementia too? Like they can't even request it. So your whole thing about autonomy, free choice, this is all about freedom and doing what we want. No, it's about killing.
• 40:39
  That's what it's about. Okay, so the whole thing about children, Quebec College of Physicians made a presentation to that committee and they said, yes, of course we support child euthanasia. They think it's wrong that we don't allow euthanasia for people 18. And there's actually some good reasons for that, actually. We don't have to get into it, but anyway.
• 40:58
  But then they said, but we also believe that we should have euthanasia of newborns. So baby born with a disability, parents are upset that the baby's born with a disability. We should be able to kill that child. That that's the most loving thing we can do. Well, that's eugenic.
• 41:16
  Okay, that's eugenic. When you're considering this issue, when we go back to the guy in his nineties, who was asked five times, was that guy approaching death? The answer is yes. The guy is approaching death. But there's obviously somebody in that group who looked at him thinking, wouldn't wanna live like him.
• 41:32
  He's better off dead. So they asked him the first time and he says, no. And they're thinking, oh, he must be a bit stupid. Well, maybe tomorrow he'll feel different. Let me give you a better context.
• 41:43
  I got a call from a guy in Ottawa. He calls me up. He's all upset. He says, Alex, my dad is in palliative care in Ottawa. He's approaching death.
• 41:50
  The family all came to visit. So the family's all in the room and the MAiD team came in and they asked him if he wanted euthanasia. Well, they say, of course, do you want MAiD? We can enter life peacefully. It's gonna be beautiful.
• 42:01
  And And then, of course, the dad said, well, no. I'm not interested in that. I I don't believe in that. Okay. So the family's visiting.
• 42:11
  They all go down to to get a coffee. Maybe there's a Tim's in the hospital. I don't know. Tim Horton's coffee. Maybe there's a Tim's in the hospital.
• 42:17
  They went there. But anyway, they went down to get a coffee. They then they came back to the room and the dad said, well, guess what happened as soon as you guys all left the room? The May team came back in and asked me again. So then obviously the May team's thinking, I don't wanna live like this guy.
• 42:32
  So as soon as And he's probably just saying no because the family's around. There might be somebody in the family that's like a crazy religious or something. So what we'll do is we'll come back as soon as family's gone. We'll ask him again and then he'll be free to say yes. And this is the sort of thinking, you know, everybody wants this because this is beautiful.
• 42:48
  No, this is killing. And what we really should want is proper care. So we die a natural death and we have our symptoms and our pain taken care of. And I'm being very careful about what I'm saying because I believe in excellent end of life care. And I'm getting concerned about where some things have gone with hospice and palliative care, not all institutions, but some have also started to drink the Kool Aid on killing too.
• 43:16
  So that's a problem also. But I'm just throwing that in because that is a reality that it really bothers me when we need good end of life care.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: I recommend that right now, literally right now, go to preparewithmia.com. So preparewithmia, a human in America, preparewithmia.com. Here's why. So with all of these news headlines that are distracting us, which not what I'm trying to cover, but a lot of us are being covered in the world. There are some really real problems that are happening.
• 43:44
  Right? So just looking at the story of the conflict in The Middle East right now. It's genuinely threatening the global food supply with fertilizer shortages, spiking energy, and transportation costs. And we haven't really felt the impact, but when it hits, it'll be too late to react then. Look.
• 43:59
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• 44:20
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• 44:36
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• 44:50
  And, look, I know it's easier to just ignore what's going on in the world, but if you think about how much you're gonna feel better knowing you're prepared instead of hoping that everything will turn out fine, it's a much better place to be. So don't wait. It's preparewithmia.com. Go check out today. Get one of those food kits.
• 45:04
  Get the second one half off. And now you've got eight weeks for the price of one and a half kits. One thing also, we talk about this the cultural shift. I think another thing that has really, added to this is that there has been, like, a lot of things that we're seeing. Right?
• 45:21
  You I think we're we're kinda living in these days where, you know, hey. We're gonna build this Tower Of Babel. Right? We can be God. Yeah.
• 45:29
  You're you're seeing this consistently that that man is is playing playing God. Right? Whether it's through genetic modification, you know, all kinds of things.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: The crazy crazy thing is they don't believe in God. Why would
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: they want to be God anyway? Exactly. But I think that that that part of it is also there's this there's this kinda cultural thing that I think oftentimes is driven by pharmaceutical companies and everything where you shouldn't suffer. Like, if you look at a lot of the the marketing campaigns for oxycodone, you know, OxyContin, right, which has just completely wreaked havoc on on our entire society, it's it was really, initially, it was, hey. You know, you shouldn't suffer.
• 46:07
  We look at a lot of the marketing stuff. It's like, you shouldn't suffer. You shouldn't suffer. But, I mean, I never once heard of any, you know, religious figure, whether it was, you know, Christ teaching or any other religions that have said, actually, no. Yeah.
• 46:21
  As human beings, you should be living in paradise. You shouldn't suffer. You shouldn't die. It's it's always been the human condition is one of suffering, and that's how your lessons are forged. You know?
• 46:31
  That's the hero's journey. Right? That's, you know, yes. If if someone's at the end life we
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: have to be careful here because in a secular society, as you probably have realized, suffering has become the enemy. And I I acknowledge, of course, as a human being, I have a physical body. I will experience suffering. I do a lot of running, and lately, I've I've experienced a lot of suffering because I ran too much and I pulled muscles and I hurt my hip and I had all these problems. And you say, that's not the same thing, Alex.
• 46:57
  Okay, I know, I understand it's not the same thing. I'm not dying or whatever. But the point of it is, is that it is part of our human condition, but at the same time, the things we can do to prevent the suffering is all good. And now because someone might've gone crazy with OxyContin and it actually had all these people get addicted to it, wasn't insanity again, but that's also because of how medicine is. Like this concept that we can do all, we can do all for everything.
• 47:23
  And in fact, sometimes we can't do all, but we can care for that person. I'm gonna make another comment, which is actually really down to what it means to be human. And that is the fact that it is difficult to suffer alone, but it's not so bad if you actually have a strong community behind you who actually really do care about you. When people are actually visiting you, spend time with you, people, you know, assert your importance in their life. They continue to be part of your life.
• 47:52
  So I'll tell you there's a study done a few years ago. It was on the will to live. It was done by this psychiatrist in Winnipeg and it's worth reading. It's called the will to live study by Harvey Chachanoff. And he went through a cancer ward and did this study and he would ask people, are thinking of dying?
• 48:13
  Would you rather die? Are you you know you're living? And he asked all these different questions to them and he would rate it but then he'd come back two days later and ask them again and ask them again and ask them again. So no one's saying that these people don't have some level of suffering in their life. But what he found is the will to live fluctuated based on one's life experience.
• 48:33
  So what happened is, let's say, I'll be visiting this elderly man who's approaching death and he's saying, really, I want to die. Well, why do you want to die? And you ask all these questions. But then he comes back two days later and he's asking him questions again. He says, no, I'm I'm wanting to live as long as I can.
• 48:49
  It's same guy. Well, what asked, what happened? Oh, well, this morning, his grandkids came to visit. Nothing else changed. His grandkids came to visit.
• 49:01
  And he's just wanting to live as long as he can because he wants to see his grandkids again and again and again and again and again before he actually dies. He's accepted as dying is going to happen, but he wants to spend time with his grandchildren, his family. And everything's now changed in his perspective. Same man. So the Will to Live study, came out with, well, when we did all this research, we found out that this fluctuates based on one's experience.
• 49:26
  So how do you then change one's life? You find those little meanings in life and sometimes it's difficult. We have to think of the nature of us as people. We want to think of ourselves as these autonomous creatures. We're almost like view ourselves like a computer, but we're not a computer.
• 49:41
  We're a human being. And it's difficult emotionally. We have to acknowledge. Yeah, it's very difficult emotionally. It's very difficult psychologically to be going through these tough times.
• 49:52
  But guess what? That can be dealt with. We don't have to kill you. We don't have to kill you. It's not necessary to kill you.
• 49:59
  Yeah, we're seeing in Canada killing going crazy. Now, I'm going to mention what happens though when you allow killing. When when you allow killing, it changes the whole medical system. Everything changes. So now you're bringing killing in and most doctors don't have anything to do with killing in Canada.
• 50:11
  They just don't. They might do a referral, which actually I would say is morally wrong. Nonetheless, they haven't killed any patients. They won't kill patients. They just won't do it.
• 50:21
  Okay? And that's the majority. But there's others who are happy to do the killing. But when killing becomes into the system, it changes everything because suddenly now it has to be an option. Now, you may say, why did Candidate expand this and go expand and expand and why they're killing more people for more reasons?
• 50:36
  And the reason is, is once you allow killing, you can't justify the reason for not killing anymore. Let me give you an example. I mentioned about the thing that you have to be 18 in Canada. That's being challenged in Canada in a big way politically. The reason is that they would say to you, well, a 16 year old might also suffer.
• 50:56
  So why would you limit that to an 18 year old? Now you would say, that's an adult, they're mature. I don't know how mature 18 year olds are. Remember being 18. I don't know how mature I was then, but let's be honest, in Canada, that's the age of being an adult.
• 51:10
  I guess that is not just a date that was chosen, but the argument is correct. At first you put in your law, which is the children horse issue. You put in your law something that the average Liberal member of parliament could accept. It'd be for adults only. At first, it was gonna be for terminally ill people only.
• 51:29
  They had to have a terminal condition. They would have to be suffering. It says the problem with the word suffering is you can't measure it. It's impossible to measure it. If you tell me you're suffering, I can't tell you you're not.
• 51:41
  It's impossible for me to know. Okay? So the whole thing about suffering is just to make us feel better about killing. I mean, having it in the law because people requesting death for suffering, I can't tell them they're not suffering. But I mean, it starts out like this and then they say, well, it's discrimination not to allow it for someone who's not terminally ill.
• 52:02
  And they're right. If it's okay to kill, because that's what they've agreed to, it's okay to kill. Then why isn't it okay to kill someone with a chronic condition? It's because they're not terminal. Oh, so you're telling me that someone who's terminal, who actually has an end in sight, we can kill them.
• 52:18
  But someone who is chronic, who has a lot of difficult symptoms, who doesn't have an end in sight, it's not okay to kill them. Well, that doesn't make sense anymore. You're right. That doesn't make sense. So, we better extend it to those.
• 52:33
  And then the whole thing about the waiting periods to say, oh, well, those reflection periods were put in because we want to make sure that the person who was killed really wanted it. Well, the problem is then they say, they're gonna force you to suffer ten days when they've already approved you to be killed. That sounds like a terrible thing to do. They were pretty approved your death. We had a case in Ontario and it came out from the Ontario coroner's report.
• 52:56
  So the Ontario coroner put out six reports on euthanasia in Ontario and Ontario is the biggest province. And the one case was a woman who asked for palliative care. She did not ask for euthanasia. She did not request euthanasia. She said it was against her beliefs, but they had no space for her in palliative care.
• 53:16
  So she was being cared for by who? Her husband. Then she had a bad night. The husband called a one-eight hundred KILL service in Ontario. There's a one-eight hundred line that you can call to the Ministry of Health that they will arrange then for your approval to be killed.
• 53:29
  He called, not she, she didn't call. He called, they got her assessed. They got her approved for her killing. She ended up dying the same day. So the husband brought her into the hospital in the morning after he had a bad night, she had a bad night.
• 53:46
  He was going through what the doctors, nurses described as caregiver distress. He called the one-eight hundred DEATH SERVICE. They approved his wife. She died by euthanasia. There's no sign in this in any of the reports.
• 54:01
  The coroner's pointing this out. There's no sign here that she ever requested it. She was approved for it, but there's no sign for it. On top of it, had questionable competency. Now, was she incompetent?
• 54:11
  Could she answer questions? She probably could answer questions, but was she actually competent knowing that previously she made it very clear she didn't want to be killed by euthanasia. She wanted palliative care. You started thinking about this. Well, how could that happen?
• 54:23
  Well, you understand that the thinking of the husband, but on top of it, you got these doctors who are killing regularly. I mean, you have made teams. I tell people, look at the data in Canada. There's some doctors doing massive numbers. They're they're the made team doctors.
• 54:38
  They're killing all the time. This is just one more killing to them. Was she terminally ill? Was she going through a difficult time? Yes.
• 54:45
  Did she qualify? Of course, she qualified except for she never asked for it. But once you're dead, what's the difference? Let's be brutally honest. The other thing about Canada, of course, is we have a universal healthcare system.
• 54:58
  We save a ton of money by killing people. Dead people don't cost money. People who are alive, yeah, they cost money. So it's much easier to kill them. We also have massive waiting lists for healthcare.
• 55:10
  I published an article more recently about the data that came out from '20, it was actually 04/01/2024 until 03/31/2025. So that was that year, twelve months. And it showed that in Canada, there was almost 24,000 people in Canada who died waiting for treatment, waiting for treatment to die. Now, how many of those died by euthanasia? The data in the article didn't say anything about that.
• 55:38
  It didn't look at that question, but I'm assuming many of them died by euthanasia cause you're waiting, you're waiting, you're waiting, you're waiting for healthcare. And eventually you say, wasn't I told a maids an option? So dead people don't require healthcare. On top of it, it saves massive money in our pension plan. Dead people don't collect pensions.
• 55:57
  What about our disability benefits in Canada? People who have disabilities collected a benefit in order to live. Not much different than New York. Well, dead people don't collect disability benefits. So, when the disability groups tell you that this is terrible, that they're actually being focused on, there's some truth to that.
• 56:17
  There's actually a lot of truth to that. So anyway, is there anything good about euthanasia? I don't think it's ever good to give someone the right in law to kill you. How about assisted suicide? They say, but that's an act I do myself.
• 56:30
  No, the doctors involved with prescribing lethal poison. And and it's not what you think. We could do a show just on how it actually works. It's not pleasant. Okay.
• 56:43
  It's not pleasant. Does it kill you? Yeah. It kills you. Yeah.
• 56:46
  But remember in Oregon in 2025 last year, the data showed one person took one hundred and twenty three hours to die. I don't know how many people took more than three or four days to die. I don't know. The data just shows the average and it showed the longest time to death, meaning they took the lethal poison and they died one hundred and twenty three hours later. Think about that.
• 57:07
  That's over five days. In 2023, the Oregon reports showed that someone had died in one hundred and thirty seven hours. And this is supposed to be death with dignity. I'm opposed to killing people. So I'm just opposed all of this, but they're trying to sell you something that's just simply not true.
• 57:23
  That's not true. And you're gonna start seeing this in New York. You might hear some stories from people that were upset that mom died this way. They didn't agree. And they'll say, well, wasn't what you thought, you know, actually.
• 57:38
  It wasn't that peaceful. That's the sales technique to make you think it's okay to kill. Let's be brutally honest about that.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Which is really, really what it is. And so, anyway, there's a lot more we could be getting into, but we've we've very quickly come up on our on our our time together. So I will I'll bring your website back up again, and the URL is is what? Epc.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. This is the blog. And so it's epcblog.org. Okay. You can go to the website, which is epc.ca, but that also you can link to the blog through that.
• 58:15
  The blog is great for research. If you wanna find out what's going on in New York, in Oregon, in Washington state, like I'm the only one who publishes on certain things. So for recently I came up with an article on the Colorado data. Nobody else has ever published, has published yet on the Colorado data. I did it.
• 58:34
  So why? Because I was looking through the different states that have legalized and I thought I should update my data on Colorado. So that's what I did. So and I'm talking about what's going on in The UK. So we can do a whole another conversation.
• 58:47
  I think it's important to know that this is not actually what some people think. They think that there's this massive tsunami of assisted suicide coming at us. And actually speaking in America, you only have 13 States that have legalized. And if you consider last year alone, last year there was almost I think it was 18 states that debated assisted suicide bill and none of them passed.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: Well, that's encouraging at least.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: No. It continues to be a situation where the problem with this is that New York had assisted suicide bills over and over and over and over again. And then in 2024, that bill passed and then it was signed in February 2025. Sorry, in 2025, it passed and it was signed in February 2026. So this is the kind of thing that we get where sadly, gets defeated over and again, and then suddenly it passes and they say, oh, there's a tsunami of support for this.
• 59:39
  Not really. But you can make people believe certain things by telling them lies. That's for sure.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: That is the nature of our society these days, isn't it?
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: That's right. Anyway, we've had a good discussion. I'm happy to join you again. I don't know if your listeners want to hear more about death and dying, there's a lot more to talk about.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there is. Thank you, you know, for again, just giving us your time, but also thank you for what you're doing. I mean, it's obvious that this is really important to you, and you've put a lot of effort into this, and I I thank you for that. This is important.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Yeah.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: Alright. Well, thank you.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm hoping I'm hoping your listeners, follow-up and, see my information and maybe, become effective, at opposing assisted suicide.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: I I hope so. I hope so. Alright. Well, thank you again. It's very nice to meet you.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:00:28
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