Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 15 June

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The Kenny Report | 15 June · The Kenny Report

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Line from the Sky New Center. This is the Kenny Report.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me tonight, Pauline Hansen the preferred prime
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: minister the major parties winning support from less than half
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: of all voters. Is this the end of our two
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: party system? Donald Trump declares yet another peace deal with Iran?
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Will the Middle East conflict finally be over? Has the
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: government done anything to tackle Islamist extremism? Six months on
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: from the Bondai massacre, another horrific shark attack on the weekend.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Is it time to embed shark nets or reduce the
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: number of sharks? Also, what has the First Nation's ambassador
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: been doing? And plenty more with Sophieor'sworth, Gematon Uni and
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Caroline Drusso, and a big thank you to Steve Price
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: and Chris Shulman for hosting while I was away, Top
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: quality stuff from them.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: As ever, let's get into it.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Politics in this country right now is in turmoil and
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: it's not the normal run of the mill chaos over
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: this issue all that, but it's an historical shift, a
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: dramatic and unprecedented move.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Away from the major parties, not just.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: The Liberal Party and the Coalition, but from labor too.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Don't underestimate what this means.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Sure, it's only in the polls so far, and it's
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: real votes that count. But in the South Australian state
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: election and the Pharaoh federal by election, we've seen voting
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: patterns mirror those polls. For more than one hundred and
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: twenty five years in this country, we've had a two
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: party system. Politics has been largely divided into the Labor
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: side and the non labor or coalition side. Those days
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: seem to be gone. On the latest polling, Labor and
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: the Coalition between them can't muster fifty percent of primary
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: support from voters between them. The latest News poll from
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: the Australian newspaper has the Coalition on eighteen percent and
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Labour on thirty so a combined major party vote of
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: just forty eight percent, And in the Resolve poll in
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Today's nine newspapers, it's Labor on twenty eight percent and
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: the Coalition on twenty percent, for the same total of
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: forty eight percent. In both polls, one nation is ahead,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: with almost a third of voters placing them number one.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Resolve even has Pauline Hansen as preferred Prime Minister over
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Anthony Albanizi.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: This staff is ground shifting.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Just to put this into perspective, let's go back to
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: the mid eighties, just forty years ago when I was
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: a young journo, and when Bob Hawk won his second
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: election over Andrew Peacock, the combined primary vote between Labor
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: and the Coalition then topped ninety three percent. More than
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: nine in ten Australians voted for a major party. Even
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: just twenty years ago, when and Rudd ended the Howard era,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: eighty five percent of primary votes went to Labor or
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: the Coalition.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: More than eight in ten of US went with the
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: major parties.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Last year, when Albanezi saw off Peter Dutton, the primary
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: vote support for major parties fell to sixty six percent,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: or just two thirds of voters.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: And as of right.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Now, according to the polls, fewer than half of US
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: less than five and ten of every Australian intends to
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: vote for either Labor or the Coalition. Our two party
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: system is under threat. The predictability of our politics might
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: be on the way out. It may never be the
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: same again. The wheeling and dealing of European politics were
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: all sorts of unlikely coalitions and alliances cobbled together to
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: form governments could become our new norm. That's if the
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: major parties can't win people back. Because as because as
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: of right now, both of politics have managed to alienate
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: large swathes of the electorate.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: Labor are scared.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: The Prime minister has had a wake up call if
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: they want to.
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: Get rid of this Albanesi Labor government, and they're courting
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: our fight to do that.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: For now, Labour has a stronghold on power and the
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: pain is being felt on the.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: Non Labour side.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: But this change is so large and Labour's vote so
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: low that it too will eventually fall victim to these
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: epoch shaping changes. Now, why is Labor on the nose?
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Why is Pauline Hanson preferred as an unlikely prime minister
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: even over the incumbent Anthony Albanesi Because Albo has broken
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: his compact with the voting public. Albo's broken promises and
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: lying over his latest tax grab have destroyed any trust
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: voters had in him. Can you rule out any changes
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: to negative gearing and capital gains taxes?
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: How hard is it for the fiftieth time now?
• 5:05
  Speaker 6: When it comes to negative gearing, we've made it very
• 5:09
  Speaker 6: clear that that's not something that we are proposing.
• 5:13
  Speaker 7: I told people we wouldn't make changes the proofs in
• 5:16
  Speaker 7: the putting.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Andrew negative gearing is off the table.
• 5:19
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's off the table.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Negative gearing.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: Is it really off the agenda or not?
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: It's off the agenda.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: Rus, We've made that really clear. Yeah.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: In a move born of arrogance and hubris, Labor returned
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: to type the politics of envy and reckless taxing and spending.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: They took these tax grabs to an election, of course,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: honestly under Bill Shorten, and they were rejected. So they
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: parked their ideas, denied they would implement them, and then
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: foisted them on us in this last budget last month. Trickery,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: lies and dishonesty. They take voters for fools.
• 5:57
  Speaker 7: We have changed our position, have changed our view. We
• 6:01
  Speaker 7: have changed our position.
• 6:02
  Speaker 6: We've come to a different view on these policy areas.
• 6:05
  Speaker 7: We've changed our position.
• 6:06
  Speaker 6: We have come to a different view than the view
• 6:08
  Speaker 6: that we held twelve months ago.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Now you know what's happened since then. Many of you,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: no doubt, have been involved. When Labour used the rise
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: of one Nation as an excuse to ask for more
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: political donations, One nation turned the tables and sprouped for
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: donations to our Labor and its prime minister under the
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: slogan fire the liar and then.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: Look, you couldn't make this stuff up.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: When the dollars rolled in, topping one and a half
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: million dollars in no time, Alban easy as if trying.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: To give himself a reverse chokehold.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Alboat accused Pauline Hanson of lyings.
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: Did she though, did.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: She talk about playing to your own weaknesses or leading
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: with your chin? The fire the liar can paign has
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: now topped four million dollars. Albo and Labor might still
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: be arrogant, but mark my words, they are in strife
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: and I doubt Albo will lead them to the next
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: election because they've given voters the stiff arm, because they've
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: shown disdain for mainstream Australians, because they've shown themselves to
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: be out of touch and untrustworthy. So what about the coalition,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: the right of center parties, they've suffered the biggest falls
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: from the drift to one nation. What's driven that? Well,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: in a way, it's the same thing. Too often, for
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: too long, the Coalition has stopped listening to voters. It's
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: been too progressive on immigration, too progressive on net zero
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: and renewables, too global on economics, not focused enough on
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: the cost of living and Australian interests, too week on
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: law and order, and too much like labor light one
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: nation winning support because it's remained clear on three key pillars,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: three conservative pillars that the major parties have moved away from.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: They are keeping immigration under control, putting Australian economic interests first,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: and the related issue of rejecting net zero because it
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: makes us pay heavily for nothing but United Nations sanctimony.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: For way too long as it's tried to sort itself out,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: the coalition stopped talking about what matters.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: It stopped listening to voters.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: And it kept talking about itself, about politics and itself.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: That stuff is toxic for voters. You're supposed to be
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: focused on the voters and their issues, not yourselves. The
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Liberals have improved under Angus Taylor, stronger on immigration, finally
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: rejecting net zero again, but they have a lot of
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: trust to rebuild, and they've also started to indulge in
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: another big mistake.
• 9:04
  Speaker 8: If you vote one nation, you're going to get labor
• 9:06
  Speaker 8: in the general election context. The truth is that if
• 9:10
  Speaker 8: the vote sprays, labor states.
• 9:12
  Speaker 6: We're not a party of reactionary responses.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: The way that one nation.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Is what will be carving up.
• 9:19
  Speaker 8: Is not seats with one nation, It'll be a labor
• 9:21
  Speaker 8: party that is taking this country in the wrong direction.
• 9:24
  Speaker 9: People have put their protest vote with one nation, and
• 9:28
  Speaker 9: all it's does is maintain the status quo.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've stopped talking about themselves, but they're talking about.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: One nation, which is kind of the same thing.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: It's their self interest that preoccupies them.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: I'm as skeptical as anyone about the ability of one
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: nation to govern effectively, but that doesn't mean that they
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: aren't tapping into real voter concerns.
• 9:53
  Speaker 10: Look, I'm hearing all time.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: People have just sped up.
• 9:55
  Speaker 9: They've had a gutfull of it.
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  Speaker 11: They want change in this country.
• 9:58
  Speaker 10: It's not the country that they.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: The coalition needs to forget talking about one nation, forget
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: internal nonsense, and focus laser like on voters their needs,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: their solutions and Labour's failures.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: It's a pretty.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Simple formula and they need to stick to it day
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: in and day out for a long while before voters
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: will believe them again. It's no accident that Robert Menzies
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: when he founded the party spoke so often about the
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: forgotten people, the voters who don't want to be beholden
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: to big unions or big governments or big corporations. The
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: voters who care about family aspiration and national progress. They
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: are the forgotten majority, and Menzies and the Liberal Party
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: used to champion their values and priorities endlessly. Put simply,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: what's happened in the last few years or last couple
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: of decades actually is that the Coalition has forgotten about
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: the forgotten people, and Paul Lane Hansen and One Nation
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: have not.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Global stock markets are up and hopes are high. After
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump announced another peace deal with Iran. It's to
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: be signed in Geneva at the end of this week
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: after both sides declared they are on board. Here's the
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: latest from ABC News America.
• 11:26
  Speaker 12: President Trump hosting the deal with the Islamic Republic of
• 11:30
  Speaker 12: Iran is now complete. Congratulations to all. I hereby fully
• 11:36
  Speaker 12: authorized the toll free opening of the Strait of Hormuz,
• 11:39
  Speaker 12: and simultaneously herewith authorize the immediate removal of the United
• 11:45
  Speaker 12: States naval blockade ships of the world. Start your engines,
• 11:49
  Speaker 12: let the oil flow.
• 11:51
  Speaker 13: Brian, We'll never have a nuclear weapon and not just
• 11:54
  Speaker 13: pursue a nuclear weapon for procure or try to buy
• 11:56
  Speaker 13: a nuclear weapon as well. If the Iranians comply with
• 11:59
  Speaker 13: his deal, it is going to fundamentally transform the Middle
• 12:02
  Speaker 13: East for the next fifty years. It's going to end
• 12:05
  Speaker 13: the war. It's going to make the Middle East more investible.
• 12:08
  Speaker 13: It's going to mean a lot of prosperity, lower energy
• 12:10
  Speaker 13: prices for the American people.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: Lots of questions to be answered about all of this.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Yet, what about Iran's nuclear materials and its nuclear program
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: and where is Israel on all of this. Let's bring
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: in Dave Sharma, the Shadow Assistant Minister for Citizenship and
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: former Australian Ambassador to Israel.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, Dave.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Obviously you would hope for the best out of this deal,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: but there's more we don't know about it so far
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: than what we know, isn't that Yeah.
• 12:35
  Speaker 14: Look, I think we need to withhold judgment until we
• 12:37
  Speaker 14: see the details. Look, hasn't been signed yet. It's due
• 12:39
  Speaker 14: to be signed on Friday in Switzerland. Bear in mind
• 12:43
  Speaker 14: we've had a number of announcements now over the past
• 12:45
  Speaker 14: sixty days saying a deal as close a deal as
• 12:46
  Speaker 14: imminent but which did not happen. So I think we
• 12:50
  Speaker 14: need to be confident both sides are saying and agreement
• 12:53
  Speaker 14: has been reached. But let's wait till the deal is signed.
• 12:55
  Speaker 14: And it's good if the straight up when mercy open
• 12:58
  Speaker 14: to commercial shipping. If Iran has accepted it has no
• 13:01
  Speaker 14: right to impose tolls and levees. But we've still got
• 13:04
  Speaker 14: unsaid questions about their stockpile, their frozen assets, their stockpil
• 13:08
  Speaker 14: riched uranium in their frozen asse.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a couple of things that really stand
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: out to me. I want to get your thoughts on
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: them and any other key aspects. But firstly, Israel, if
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Israel's fighting Isbela in southern Lebanon a proxy of Iran,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: unless Israel's involved in this deal, isn't it meaningless? And
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: secondly that the nuclear materials and stockpiles, that.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: Is the enrichment uranium that Iran has.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Unless we get access to that or it has taken away,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: surely gets a failure.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: I think that's right.
• 13:37
  Speaker 14: I think look that so Iran has about five hundred
• 13:40
  Speaker 14: kilos slightly less of highly enriched uranium weapons grade uranium.
• 13:44
  Speaker 14: That means they could reconstitute a nuclear weapons program quite
• 13:47
  Speaker 14: quickly unless that's dealt with, and then the Israel has
• 13:50
  Speaker 14: a bela front. I mean, I think Iran is trying
• 13:52
  Speaker 14: to make sure that Israel is bound by this agreement.
• 13:55
  Speaker 14: But Israel is not a party to this agreement. This
• 13:57
  Speaker 14: has been negotiated between Israel and the United States, and.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: I run we've not heard from on this yet.
• 14:03
  Speaker 14: No, And I think I suspect, as any sovereign nation
• 14:05
  Speaker 14: would say, we reserve our right to respond if Hasbiler
• 14:08
  Speaker 14: keeps attacking us. If Hasbiler doesn't observe the ceasefire, why
• 14:12
  Speaker 14: should they be forced to? And I think that's a
• 14:14
  Speaker 14: reasonable position to take.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to take up more on this later
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: in the program. On I got something else that you've
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: raised in Parliament. You've taken it up in Senate estimates.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: It relates to the Albaneza government's first Nation's Ambassador. That
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: was a new position created by Labor. It's filled by
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Justin Muhammad, who's paid about four hundred thousand dollars a
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: year for this job. That's taken him on dozens of
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: overseas trips over.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Three years, costing three quarters of a million dollars.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: And in Senate estimate, Senator Dave Sharma noted that he
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: was tasked with coming up with a strategy that the
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: First Nation's ambassador was tasked with coming up for with
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: a strategy for First Nations diplomacy. And when Dave Sharma
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: asked him this after three years of work or whatever,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: here's what the department had to say in.
• 14:57
  Speaker 15: Response, We're being progressed on a strategy in terms of
• 15:03
  Speaker 15: where the office and where the ambassador can most effectively
• 15:07
  Speaker 15: deploy their resources.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: So has the strategy been developed.
• 15:11
  Speaker 15: The strategy, the strategic work continues and the strategies in development.
• 15:19
  Speaker 14: So when do when do you expect the strategy to
• 15:22
  Speaker 14: be delivered?
• 15:25
  Speaker 15: As was said by miss Peak that work is continuing
• 15:28
  Speaker 15: at the moment, we don't have a confirmed DATEA.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Well, they're there strategy.
• 15:34
  Speaker 16: Sorry, I think I will stand to be corrected, but
• 15:41
  Speaker 16: I think it's better to understand strategy in terms of
• 15:44
  Speaker 16: the direction that has been decided on for the work
• 15:52
  Speaker 16: of the ambassador, So not a document as such.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Good Lord Dave ask a simple question, what the hell's
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: going on?
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: This is costing us millions. We've had a First Nation's
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: ambassador for three years. No one knows what he's doing.
• 16:06
  Speaker 14: I was astonished, christ I thought it was a straightforward question.
• 16:09
  Speaker 14: I get a straightforward answer and we move on. Here's
• 16:11
  Speaker 14: the strategy, this is where you can find it. You know,
• 16:13
  Speaker 14: this is what's going to happen. Instead, I had a
• 16:15
  Speaker 14: whole lot of you know, subterfusion deflection about whether a
• 16:19
  Speaker 14: strategy exists, how does it exist, if it's a document
• 16:22
  Speaker 14: or not a document? And this is a role that
• 16:24
  Speaker 14: has been in place for three years now, it's costing
• 16:27
  Speaker 14: taxpayers north of a million dollars. It's not clear what
• 16:30
  Speaker 14: it's doing that's different to what I everyday diplomats should
• 16:34
  Speaker 14: be doing as part of their core responsibility. No doubt
• 16:36
  Speaker 14: you'll continue to pursue this, but fundamentally, you're a former
• 16:38
  Speaker 14: senior diplomat. We shouldn't have a separate first nation's diplomacy strategy.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: We should just have Australia's foreign.
• 16:44
  Speaker 14: Policy exactly, just as we don't have a separate Chinese
• 16:47
  Speaker 14: Australian foreign policy, or an Indian Australian foreign policy, or
• 16:50
  Speaker 14: a First Nations one.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: We shouldn't.
• 16:52
  Speaker 14: We've got First Nations people working for the Department of
• 16:54
  Speaker 14: Foreign Afairs and trade. They can just as well represent
• 16:57
  Speaker 14: Australia as any other Australian can. We're all one nation,
• 17:00
  Speaker 14: we're all one people.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: Spot on, Dave Sharma, thanks for joining us.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: There's a Liberal Senator for New South Wales, Dave Sharma.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Now I want to go to another.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Story that's been huge in New South Wales in the
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: past couple of days, and a thirty five year old
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Sydney woman remains in a critical condition in hospital after
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: that horrifying shark attack at Kuji yesterday. She was swimming
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: between the flags, only twenty meters or so from the
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: shore in clear water at this popular Sydney beach when
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: she was bitten on the limbs by what is believed
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: to have been a great white shark. As she fights
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: for her life, public debate is reanimated across the country
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: because four people have been killed in shark attacks in
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Australia in just the past six months. There are calls
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: for a shark cull. I spread the latest news about
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: a woman fighting for her life after a shark.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Attack at Cukson Beach.
• 17:50
  Speaker 7: It's so wrong that we don't cul sharks after attacks.
• 17:56
  Speaker 10: It's so wrong that.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: We've don't have a commercial shark fishery given the explosion
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: in shark numbers, and it's so wrong that we don't
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: put people before sharks. The fore Prime Minister buying in
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: there now. Many beaches along the New South Wales and
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Queensland coastline have been protected for more than eighty years
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: by nets and drum lines, but they're usually taken out
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: in winter and activists have been calling for them to
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: be removed altogether for years.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: We've had that debate here.
• 18:26
  Speaker 17: What I'd like to do is to give you a
• 18:28
  Speaker 17: few facts and figures, because the nets are actually very
• 18:31
  Speaker 17: old technology.
• 18:33
  Speaker 18: A second, hang on a second pack, Could I just
• 18:35
  Speaker 18: could I just put to you a fact, and that
• 18:38
  Speaker 18: is that in almost one hundred years since nets have
• 18:42
  Speaker 18: been protecting the most populous beaches, there's only been one
• 18:46
  Speaker 18: fatal attack in all of Australia at a protected beach,
• 18:49
  Speaker 18: while there's been fifty or sixty at unprotected beaches. Are
• 18:53
  Speaker 18: you prepared to take those nets away and just take
• 18:55
  Speaker 18: the chance that we'll see more fatalities at some of
• 18:58
  Speaker 18: our most popular beaches.
• 19:01
  Speaker 17: Well, there is a question as to whether it was
• 19:03
  Speaker 17: the nets that were actually protecting against sharks.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever, people say about sharks swimming around nets or
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: other species being killed in them. The data clearly shows
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: that fatal shark attacks are almost non existent at netted beaches.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: A Senate inquiry examined all the evidence and the arguments,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: and even experts opposed to nets admitted the facts. One
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: expert noted there has only been one fatality at a
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: netted beach in Australia since nineteen thirty seven. This is
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: absolutely accurate, he said. But he noted there were twenty
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: nine non fatal bites at those beaches over that period,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: and other experts said that even with significant numbers of
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: surfers in the water year round, remarkably there continues to
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: be no fatal attacks on netted beaches, even at these
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: times when the nets are not in the water.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Say what you like about nets, the.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Data shows they work and this debate must be about
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: facts rather than feelings. Have a listened to the new
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: South Wales Minister on Sky News this morning.
• 20:13
  Speaker 15: I'm relying on the research that tells me that we
• 20:15
  Speaker 15: don't have more sharks, but there is different activity in
• 20:18
  Speaker 15: terms of how long they stay.
• 20:19
  Speaker 16: Well, we've got more attacks, yeah, but the research is
• 20:24
  Speaker 16: telling us that there aren't more.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Really, there are no more sharks. Hang on a second.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Experts said that great whites were under threat too many
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: fishermen were killing them. So more than forty years ago
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: great whites were protected. Is she seriously arguing that after
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: protecting great whites for decades there wouldn't be any.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: More of them.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: The whole reason for giving them protection was to boost
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: their numbers. Let's go to shark expert Professor Rob Harcourt
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: from Macquarie University. He leads the Marine Predator Research Group.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Thanks for job us again, Robert, tell us firstly about
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: that point. If we've been protecting great whites for the
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: past four decades or more, surely that has led to
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: an increase in their numbers.
• 21:11
  Speaker 11: It's a little bit more complicated than, sadly, than if
• 21:14
  Speaker 11: we stop killing them, they'll just returning great numbers because
• 21:20
  Speaker 11: in the interim period other predators coming in can take
• 21:23
  Speaker 11: their place, and there's been a lot of fundamental changes
• 21:26
  Speaker 11: in our ecosystems. What we do know is we know
• 21:29
  Speaker 11: that off the East coast there's around about seven hundred
• 21:32
  Speaker 11: and fifty adult great white sharks and that's been stable
• 21:35
  Speaker 11: probably for about twenty years, and of course quite a
• 21:39
  Speaker 11: few juvenile sharks as well, So the numbers are you know,
• 21:43
  Speaker 11: there's about three to four juveniles every adult.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: Let's get this clear though.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Of course anything can be as complicated and as nuance
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: as we want to make it, and we.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: All understand that.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: But surely you are not suggesting that we don't have
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: more great whites on the coastline of Australia now than
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: we did in the nineteen eighties when they were first protected.
• 22:03
  Speaker 11: Well, we don't actually have clear evidence that the numbers
• 22:06
  Speaker 11: have increased. And actually, you know you were talking about
• 22:08
  Speaker 11: the shark nets. I mean, the shart nets are a
• 22:10
  Speaker 11: fixed fishing so it's a fixed effort. It gives us
• 22:14
  Speaker 11: really good idea about how many sharks are present. So
• 22:17
  Speaker 11: there's not clear evidence and I'm going to say that
• 22:20
  Speaker 11: there's not been an increase, but there's no evidence that
• 22:23
  Speaker 11: it's actually a measurable increase from the Shark mission data itself.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: But the hang on the whole the whole idea of
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: giving them protection, of stopping fishermen catching them was to
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: improve their numbers. Are you saying that the protection of
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: great white sharks for the past forty or fifty years
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: has been a waste of time, or do we not
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: have all great whits?
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: No, no, Chris, actually quite the opposite.
• 22:45
  Speaker 11: And in fact, you've got to remember, we are still
• 22:49
  Speaker 11: fishing for great white sharks.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: That's what the shark mesh nets do.
• 22:52
  Speaker 11: So we are still killing great white sharks in the
• 22:55
  Speaker 11: Sydney region and from Newcastle up took me down to Wollongong.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Very few, well yeah, very few.
• 23:01
  Speaker 11: But that's because the shark nets, as we've talked about
• 23:05
  Speaker 11: last time I was on the program with you, is
• 23:07
  Speaker 11: has actually been you know, it has caused the depletion
• 23:10
  Speaker 11: in numbers in close to shore where where these animals
• 23:13
  Speaker 11: come and go. So we've we've not got I mean,
• 23:17
  Speaker 11: the white sharks don't reproduce at a really fast right
• 23:20
  Speaker 11: then it's not like.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: You know, say.
• 23:25
  Speaker 11: A boom and bus like you know, if you if
• 23:26
  Speaker 11: you kill a lot of cutorfish, there'll be a lot
• 23:28
  Speaker 11: of a lot of eggs hatching and there'll be lots
• 23:31
  Speaker 11: more cultorfish the following year. They take a long time
• 23:33
  Speaker 11: to recover. So you know, we're talking about if there's
• 23:37
  Speaker 11: if there's probable evidence of a very slow recovery. But
• 23:41
  Speaker 11: it's slow, and I guess that's the important point, Chris.
• 23:44
  Speaker 11: It's a slow recovery. It's not like there's been a
• 23:46
  Speaker 11: huge explosion in white sharks.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well they don't have a huge we understand that.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: But but they're recovering.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: There are more sharks, so there are more great white sharks,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: There are more of some other types of sharks. We
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: understand there's probably less of some other species, but there
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: are more people in the water and more sharks. Of course,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: we're going to have more shark attacks.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: I understand these arguments about nets on protected beaches that
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: other non targeted species are killed, But you can't argue
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: that they're not effective, can you, Because the data shows
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: it can't be just coincidence that netted beaches don't account
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: for any fatalities. Even if it's the sharks sensing fish
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: dyeing in those nets or whatever, it is. Something in
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: the arrangement of the nets leads to a lack of fatalities.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: They work. I mean, I've never said that meshing beaches,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: but a lot.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: Of people do. Right as you know, a lot of
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: people you get rid of the nets. They're not effective anyway.
• 24:41
  Speaker 11: They do, And I mean, but the crucial thing is.
• 24:44
  Speaker 11: I mean people are saying, but they kill lots of
• 24:46
  Speaker 11: other things. The reality is that the meshing doesn't actually
• 24:51
  Speaker 11: cause a huge amount of bycatch compared to other fishing
• 24:54
  Speaker 11: operations anyway. So I'm quite relaxed about keeping the mesh
• 24:58
  Speaker 11: nets in place. And if I was a minister or
• 25:00
  Speaker 11: the mayor, I would be very reluctant to say let's
• 25:03
  Speaker 11: pull them out, because you know, there is evidence that
• 25:05
  Speaker 11: they have provided long term protection.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: It's just there.
• 25:09
  Speaker 11: We've got new methods that are even better identifying them,
• 25:13
  Speaker 11: but you've got to use them. And if you don't
• 25:14
  Speaker 11: use them, like this poor woman yesterday, I mean I
• 25:16
  Speaker 11: was free diving at Cleverly just around the corner. If
• 25:19
  Speaker 11: you've got no drone in the air, it's not going
• 25:21
  Speaker 11: to detect the shark. And you know, that's what been
• 25:25
  Speaker 11: one of the big issues here, is that you've got
• 25:28
  Speaker 11: to have things looking out for sharks if you're going
• 25:31
  Speaker 11: to protect people from Well.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: That's a great point because we all know about the
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: drones and we've got sharks tagged and I've got an
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: app that shows me where tag sharks are, and a
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: lot of people would do around.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: The coast of Australia. But as just to.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Clarify that we should leave the nets in at the
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: protected beaches until we get some other technology in there
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: that does as good a job.
• 25:52
  Speaker 11: That's exactly right. We actually wrote a paper about this.
• 25:55
  Speaker 11: It's called a wicked problem, Chris. A wicked problem because
• 25:58
  Speaker 11: the problem is killing and protected species, the white shark
• 26:03
  Speaker 11: and also grain those sharks and some other sharks that
• 26:05
  Speaker 11: died in the nets. But if you remove them, you're increasing,
• 26:10
  Speaker 11: potentially increasing the likelihood that people are going to die.
• 26:12
  Speaker 11: So no matter what you do, you're going to cause
• 26:14
  Speaker 11: some harm. So what we want is to use new
• 26:17
  Speaker 11: technology before we pull out the old technology. You want
• 26:21
  Speaker 11: to cover your basis very well explained.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, professor, I appreciate it. Robert Harcourt
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: there from the Macquarie University.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: That makes a lot of sense. You hear a lot
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: of people just say rip out the nets.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, when you've got a good system to replace
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: them with proper drone monitoring and the like, then you
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: can take the nets out. Now, after the break, I
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: want to ask what the government's done to tackle Islamist extremism.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Six months on from bon dying, Alex Rifchin will join me.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: It was six months yes since the Bondai terror attack
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: that saw fifteen Australians killed in a horrendous massacre at
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: a Jewish festival. Most of those killed were Jewish, two
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: were not. They were all innocent civilians enjoying our most
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: famous and popular beach. A memorial service was held at
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Bondai last night, and yesterday happened to mark the final
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: day for submissions to the Royal Commission into Anti Semitism
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: and Social Cohesion that was called in the wake of
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: the atrocity, the worst terror attack on Australian soil. But
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: apart from this Royal Commission and inquiry the government initially
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: tried to avoid but which it was pressured into, and
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: the Royal Commission that doesn't even mention the main problem,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: that is radical Islam or Islamist extremism. Anyway, apart from
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: this inquiry, what has changed to make Australia safer, to
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: eradicate the hatred? Well tragic, I would argue, precious little.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: The Prime Minister is still yet to call out the
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: problem of Islamists extremism. He usually won't even utter those words.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: He's not called religious leaders together to recruit them into
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: a joint campaign against Islamists extremism, which is a threat
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: to Muslim communities as well as non Muslim communities. It's
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: the most obvious threat to coucial social cohesion in this country.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: The government has finally outlawed his book to Rear an
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: extremist organization that we've called out for years on this program.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: But the Albadezer government has left his book to reer
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: practitioners and hate preachers still doing what they do in
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: our community. Albo has provided zero leadership on these issues.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: And I've got to tell you because of all this,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the PM really made me angry when he said this
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: the other day when asked about people calling Victorian Premier
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: just into Alan a witch.
• 29:06
  Speaker 7: A sexist campaign targeting the Victorian Premier is totally unacceptable
• 29:11
  Speaker 7: and has no place in public life. We want to
• 29:14
  Speaker 7: encourage women to enter public life and it should be
• 29:20
  Speaker 7: a contest of ideas, not personal attacks. But it comes
• 29:25
  Speaker 7: into context as well. As I've stood in this courtyard
• 29:29
  Speaker 7: so many times and said turn the temperature down. We
• 29:34
  Speaker 7: all have a responsibility. I mean some of the personal
• 29:39
  Speaker 7: way in which mainstream media as well has characterized people
• 29:44
  Speaker 7: in public life has just got to stop now.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not into calling women witches either. I'm not into
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: abusive political debate either. But how could this Prime Minister
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: possibly take the high moral ground on turning the the
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: temperature when he's done nothing, seriously, nothing to quell the
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: anti Israel and anti Jewish hatred on our streets for
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: the past two and a half.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: Years or more.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Remember when thousands marched on the Harbor Bridge. Some chanted
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: for death to the IDF, some waved Islamist terrorism banners.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Hate preachers were among them, and some even waved a
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: poster of the Supreme Leader of Iran, a major sponsor
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: of terrorism worldwide. Even after seeing all of that, here
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: is what our PM said back then.
• 30:39
  Speaker 7: Yesterday's march was peaceful and was an opportunity for people
• 30:44
  Speaker 7: to express their concern about what is happening in Gaza.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Really, calling for death to the IDF is peaceful. Supporting
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: terrorist groups publicly is peaceful. This bloke only wants the
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: temperature brought down when people criticize labor.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: Remember here he was, as a young.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: MP, turning up the temperature against Israel.
• 31:13
  Speaker 18: Israel, Oh well with helicopters.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the same man who now says people should
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: take the temperature down when attacking labor politicians. What about
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: the tide of anti Semitism and Islamist extremism hatred in
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: this country? Prime Minister, when are you going to do
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: something to turn the temperature down on that. Let's bring
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: in Alex Ritchin from the Executive Council of Australian Jury.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, Alex.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I want to first get your thoughts on that solemn
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: anniversary yesterday, six months on from the Bondai massacre, Sarah
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: at the beach there on a very wintry night.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: What are your thoughts?
• 32:05
  Speaker 19: Yeah, Look, it's difficult to believe that six months have
• 32:07
  Speaker 19: passed since that horrific day, And in a way, I
• 32:10
  Speaker 19: think we're going to be permanently stuck in that moment
• 32:13
  Speaker 19: and the loss of that day, and the loss not
• 32:15
  Speaker 19: only of human life but our way of life as
• 32:17
  Speaker 19: Jews in this country I think will stay with us
• 32:18
  Speaker 19: for a long long time. But as always, we're buoyed
• 32:21
  Speaker 19: by the resilience and the courage and the conviction shown
• 32:24
  Speaker 19: by people like Matilda's father and mother who stand up
• 32:28
  Speaker 19: at these vigils and recite her name and tell her story,
• 32:31
  Speaker 19: which takes incredible courage.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: So you know, when I look.
• 32:34
  Speaker 19: Back at the last six months, they've been a horror show,
• 32:36
  Speaker 19: no doubt for the community, but we've come through fire.
• 32:39
  Speaker 19: We've shown who we are. We've never been stronger, We've
• 32:42
  Speaker 19: never been more determined, We've never been more proud to
• 32:44
  Speaker 19: be Jews in Australians, and I think that says something
• 32:46
  Speaker 19: about who we are as a community.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Thankfully, there have been no terrorist attacks in Australia since then,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: although there have been some shocking events overseas.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: Do you believe the.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Federal and state governments have done anything since BONDI to
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: make Australians and in particular Jewish Australians safer.
• 33:05
  Speaker 19: Look, we've seen a greater police presence and visibility on
• 33:08
  Speaker 19: our streets, which I think brings comfort and particularly outside
• 33:11
  Speaker 19: Jewish institutions, but there's a long way to go. And
• 33:15
  Speaker 19: what we learned on that horrific day was that we're
• 33:17
  Speaker 19: not dealing with a couple of individuals with a murder
• 33:19
  Speaker 19: of ideology. We're dealing with a movement, a movement of
• 33:22
  Speaker 19: hatred that wants to slaughter Jews wherever it finds them.
• 33:26
  Speaker 19: We've seen this around the world and we've seen it
• 33:27
  Speaker 19: in our own backyard as well. So it's not going
• 33:30
  Speaker 19: to be eradicated easily. This is going to take a
• 33:32
  Speaker 19: whole of society approach. It's going to take law enforcement
• 33:35
  Speaker 19: doing much more and working closer together. And one of
• 33:38
  Speaker 19: the things we've seen through the last few weeks of
• 33:40
  Speaker 19: the Royal Commission is that there were certainly failures between
• 33:43
  Speaker 19: the police and the Federal Police and asio things were missed,
• 33:48
  Speaker 19: evidence was missed off and things like that result in
• 33:52
  Speaker 19: tragic consequences. So the short answer, Chris is that no,
• 33:55
  Speaker 19: I don't think enough has been done, but there's no
• 33:57
  Speaker 19: easy solution either. But I'm hoping deeply that this Royal
• 34:01
  Speaker 19: Commission will put us on a path to a better,
• 34:04
  Speaker 19: safer country for everybody.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: The simple fact, though, isn't it that we know that
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Islamists extremist hatred is still being preached in Australia now,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: in fact being preached in Australia, you know, only a
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: half hour drive from Sydney from Bondai Beach.
• 34:19
  Speaker 19: Look, we've known that for a long time. And when
• 34:22
  Speaker 19: you saw the rise of Isis in the Middle East
• 34:24
  Speaker 19: and hundreds of Australians voluntarily travel there to participate in barbarism,
• 34:30
  Speaker 19: and how many more remained in Australia but adhere to
• 34:33
  Speaker 19: that ideology. We're going to have problems for a long
• 34:36
  Speaker 19: long time. And obviously, with the return of the isis Brides,
• 34:39
  Speaker 19: I think that deepens that problem. It stretches police and
• 34:41
  Speaker 19: AFP resources to monitor people who need to be looked
• 34:44
  Speaker 19: at very closely. So we're dealing with probably thousands of
• 34:48
  Speaker 19: people who possess an ideology and could be mined to
• 34:52
  Speaker 19: act violently at any point in time, and we have
• 34:55
  Speaker 19: to deal with it immediately through better border security, better
• 34:58
  Speaker 19: law enforcement, better coordination between agencies. But also long term
• 35:02
  Speaker 19: we have to deal with the factors of this information,
• 35:06
  Speaker 19: of propaganda, of radicalization. These are the precursors to the
• 35:10
  Speaker 19: violence that we saw at Bondai, and they're still slushing
• 35:13
  Speaker 19: through our institutions, through mosques, through schools, through social media,
• 35:17
  Speaker 19: cultural institutions. We haven't grappled with the problem.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: Thanks Alex, Thanks so much for joining us.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Alex Richard there the Executive Council of Australian Jury.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: I would add one thing.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: I agree with everything that Alex just said, but I
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: would add one thing and that is, we need to
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: keep these issues in the public debate. Don't let it
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: go away. Don't let the government get away with just
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: doing nothing and washing this away until we're hit by
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: tragedy again. We've got to remain focused on this stuff
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: because it's crucial for the future of the entire country.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: Not Jewish Australians, but every one of us, you, me,
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: and everyone you know.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: This is about the fundamental freedoms in this country.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: Now we're going to take a break.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Coming up, we're going to check in on don Trump
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: declaring this peace deal in Iran. He's been doing a
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: lot today as Donald Trump all across to Jonathan Spire
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: in the Middle East. Now, I mentioned earlier with Dave
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Sharma that I think there are more questions than answers
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: when it comes to Donald Trump's Iran peace deal. So
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: let's go to the region and get some experts and
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: insights into this.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: I'm joined by doctor Jonathan Spira again. He's the director of.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Research at the Middle East Forum. He joins us from Jerusalem.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us again, Jonathan. We've heard Donald Trump
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: talk about peace deals in.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: This conflict numerous times. Is this one for real?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: First of all, Christ.
• 36:38
  Speaker 20: Yeah, it does look like it is different this time.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: We were talking.
• 36:41
  Speaker 20: About thirty eight previous occasions when the president is apparently
• 36:44
  Speaker 20: mentioned a deal on the way, But this time it
• 36:46
  Speaker 20: does look like it's real, and we know that because
• 36:48
  Speaker 20: this time the Iranian side also has talked about it
• 36:52
  Speaker 20: and about it being real, and it looks like there
• 36:54
  Speaker 20: is indeed a day for the signing of it, which
• 36:57
  Speaker 20: is going to take place, we're told in Switzerland on
• 36:59
  Speaker 20: Friday the nineteen.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: So yeah, we are looking.
• 37:01
  Speaker 20: It does seem for him to be heading for a
• 37:03
  Speaker 20: deal now, and the details of it remain unconfirmed. There
• 37:08
  Speaker 20: are a number of versions that have appeared online from
• 37:11
  Speaker 20: both the Uranian and other media, but we're waiting confirmation
• 37:14
  Speaker 20: on the details of that.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: I have two key questions with this. One is the
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: role of Israel.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Can the deal actually hold without Israel signing up to
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: it effectively as a third party.
• 37:25
  Speaker 20: Well, it can hold on the condition I think that
• 37:29
  Speaker 20: the United States and indeed Iran do not try to
• 37:33
  Speaker 20: insist on the clause, which according to at least a
• 37:35
  Speaker 20: the Iuranian news agency, which says that all combat ceases,
• 37:40
  Speaker 20: including in Lebanon, what Israel is trying to make clear
• 37:44
  Speaker 20: is that, you know, Hall moves Iran, that can be
• 37:46
  Speaker 20: American business. But when it comes to his bolla attacks
• 37:50
  Speaker 20: from Lebanon on Israeli communities, if those continue, Israel is
• 37:54
  Speaker 20: going to respond to them.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: So if the whole.
• 37:56
  Speaker 20: Edifice rests on Israel staying silent in the face of
• 37:59
  Speaker 20: his boller, I'm afraid this is not going to work.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: And the other key question is the enriched uranium that
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: in Iran presumably still holds no matter what it promises
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: when it comes to its nuclear ambitions. Can this deal
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: proceed unless that material is either controlled or seized by
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: either the US or an international agency.
• 38:22
  Speaker 20: Well, this is an absolutely crucial and central question. Again,
• 38:24
  Speaker 20: we don't yet have, of course, the official version of
• 38:27
  Speaker 20: the memorandum of understanding, but in terms of the versions
• 38:29
  Speaker 20: or less versions that have appeared, what they appear to
• 38:32
  Speaker 20: be saying is that the United States has accepted that
• 38:36
  Speaker 20: the highly enriched uranium will be diluted on Uranian soil itself. Now,
• 38:42
  Speaker 20: I very much hope that isn't accurate, and that it
• 38:44
  Speaker 20: turns out that's just the Uranians spinning their own version
• 38:47
  Speaker 20: of that. If it does turn out to be accurate,
• 38:50
  Speaker 20: then I'm afraid that will represent a very very major
• 38:52
  Speaker 20: climb down by the United States and the international community,
• 38:55
  Speaker 20: and it will pave the way, frankly, for the Uranians
• 38:57
  Speaker 20: to continue their clandestine nuclear effort that have been underway
• 39:00
  Speaker 20: now for many years, as we are aware.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: Which will mean there will have been a lot of
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: war for very little exactly.
• 39:06
  Speaker 20: So, I mean, we remember how the war was relaunched
• 39:08
  Speaker 20: on February twenty eighth, with the President of the United
• 39:12
  Speaker 20: States issuing a resounding statement that the hour of your
• 39:16
  Speaker 20: freedom is at hand for the Iuranian people, where we
• 39:18
  Speaker 20: seem to be a very very long way away from that.
• 39:20
  Speaker 20: Now the hour of freedom's clearly not at hand with
• 39:22
  Speaker 20: the Uranian people. And frankly, we're talking about the extent
• 39:25
  Speaker 20: to which, as it looks, the Americans have acquiesced to
• 39:30
  Speaker 20: a reinstatement of the status quote ante bellum they used
• 39:34
  Speaker 20: to say, Yeah, other than some very serious damage, but
• 39:37
  Speaker 20: tactical damage at the end of the day, to various
• 39:39
  Speaker 20: elements of Ironian infrastructure. Yeah, on the face of it,
• 39:42
  Speaker 20: it looks like very little has been achieved in the
• 39:44
  Speaker 20: course of the last month.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Jonathan Spire, thanks so much for your insights Jonathan Spire
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: there in Jerusalem.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: We will bring more on this development tomorrow.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Obviously, now thousands of people have attended an anti racism
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: rally in Belfast after days of unrest following that horrible
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: life attack and attempted allegedly attempted beheading that was committed
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: by a Sudanese man.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: Let's go to News Corp Europe.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: A correspondent, the Sky News contributor of course, Sophie is
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: with Sophie tell Us about the latest from Belfast.
• 40:16
  Speaker 10: Chris, It's been a shocking week really in Belfast for
• 40:19
  Speaker 10: many residents there. We saw that alleged beheading, that vision
• 40:24
  Speaker 10: go viral on social media, which really alarmed people and
• 40:28
  Speaker 10: caused immense concern. As you can imagine, we saw a
• 40:31
  Speaker 10: Sudanese man charged. Then consequently we saw the riots unfold
• 40:36
  Speaker 10: in Belfast. So it's been a very tumultuous, tumultuous week
• 40:41
  Speaker 10: and really concerning for Britain's who are worried about the
• 40:45
  Speaker 10: state of their country at the moment. And a lot
• 40:46
  Speaker 10: of the commentary here is how are these migrants getting
• 40:50
  Speaker 10: into the country, what is the situation with legal and
• 40:54
  Speaker 10: illegal migration, and what is being done to stop this,
• 40:57
  Speaker 10: because it seems to be every week or almost every
• 41:01
  Speaker 10: week here, there's some sort of sordid tale of something
• 41:05
  Speaker 10: happening with a migrant that's come into this country and
• 41:09
  Speaker 10: caused chaos as a result.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: We had that horrible case where a man was stabbed
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: by a Sikh person who claimed he was racially abused,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: and the police are arresting and handcuffing the person on
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: claims of racism while he was bleeding to death. That
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: was a Now these issues obviously play into the reform
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: anti immigration agenda. I want to go to something that
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Nigel Farage has published a five thousand word essay where
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: he has said that nothing demonstrates the state's commitment to
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: anti whiteness more than the ironically named Equality Act. It's
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: through this legislation that anti whiteness is institutionalized into every
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: aspect of public life. This is strong language, Sophie, in
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: a heated debate.
• 41:53
  Speaker 10: It's incredibly strong language. Obviously it's incredibly divisive. But he's
• 41:58
  Speaker 10: argued in this piece that you are treated differently based
• 42:01
  Speaker 10: on the color of your skin, and obviously that's causing
• 42:05
  Speaker 10: a significant divisive commentary here in the UK.
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: But that Henry Novak case was a classic example that
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: he seized upon and said, here is a white teenage
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: boy who was accused, falsely accused of racially abusing this
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: British Sikh man. And consequently the teenager was arrested and
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: he later died. And so police are also under immense
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: pressure and a terribly tragic case.
• 42:32
  Speaker 10: Chris.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, so Kyos star of the Labor Prime Minister is
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: trying to distract everybody else, Extract everybody, Distract everybody onto
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: other issues that he's copied from Australia.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: Have a look.
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: Social media is making children unhappy. It's making it easier
• 42:51
  Speaker 6: for bullies to harass and abuse them, and it could
• 42:55
  Speaker 6: even be harming their mental health, exposing them to content
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: that it is dangerous. This is very significant for our country.
• 43:03
  Speaker 6: It is about protecting children. And I am absolutely clear
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: that the ban is the right outcome.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: So I reckon it's about It's very popular here and
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: in the UK, but I don't think it works.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: That's the problem.
• 43:16
  Speaker 10: So he's just given this press conference behind me, Chris.
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: Moments ago, this was highly anticipated that Sekir Starmer would
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: announce this social media ban following the footsteps of Australia.
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: But I can tell our viewers, Chris, a lot of
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: the commentary here in the UK is it's not working
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: in Australia or there are problems in Australia with it.
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: While Australia has been applauded for introducing such a ban,
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: kids are not silly and they can get around things
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: that Sakias Starmer has said. Under sixteens will be banned
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: from social media. It's expected to come into legislation at
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: the end of the year, are enforced in the spring
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: next year, so from about March onwards.
• 43:59
  Speaker 10: But there are learned about how effective it will be.
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: But no doubt they have watched Australia, they've copied Australia
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: and now it's to see how it works here in Britain.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Great stuff, Sophie, thanks again as ever, so feel's worth
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: their live outside Number ten down the street in London.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: We'll take a break, We'll be back with Jemma and Caroline.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: As Pauline Hanson continues her remarkable.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: Rise to the top of the polls.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Lots to get through, not enough time with Gematon, Yini
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: and Caroline.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: The lots of common sense I expect from both of you.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Guys, always give us your short version is the two
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: party system dead.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: Has Pauline Hanson and One Nation killed it.
• 44:39
  Speaker 9: It is a time of disruption, Christopher. Whether it's dead
• 44:42
  Speaker 9: or not remains to be seen. I think we're in
• 44:45
  Speaker 9: a time of disruption. I wouldn't be bold enough to
• 44:47
  Speaker 9: call it, but definitely fractured. And can I say I
• 44:50
  Speaker 9: think we needed a little bit of a shakeup.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: No doubt about that, Caro.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: When she's polling as preferred prime minister, that's not just
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: a blow to your Liberal party, it means it's a
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: hell of a blow to lay as well.
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: It is absolutely a blow to Labor and I wonder
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: if they are now starting to, you know, come to
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: some of that political reality which has been filtering through
• 45:13
  Speaker 5: the coalition over the last few months. Of course, you know,
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: we're still a couple of years out from an election,
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: and Chris, I would like to see her subject to
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: the same accountability as two other leaders from the major
• 45:25
  Speaker 5: parties if she expects to be created like one.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Sure, but there's one thing she reckons that I reckon.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: She does jam around to get your thoughts on this.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: She listens to people. She still speaks to the daily
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: concepts of Australians. That's what the major parties have forgotten
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 45:40
  Speaker 10: I read that piece.
• 45:41
  Speaker 9: I think it was in our paper in the Australian
• 45:43
  Speaker 9: our paper on the weekend, and it was about the
• 45:45
  Speaker 9: gas sector, talking about the development of the one Nation
• 45:49
  Speaker 9: gas policy and they were actually shocked that there was consultation.
• 45:53
  Speaker 9: They were contacted by one nation, asked to come to
• 45:56
  Speaker 9: a round table, asked for their opinion as the second
• 46:00
  Speaker 9: and they were like, government hasn't talked to us about
• 46:02
  Speaker 9: the sector. They've been forming policy in a vacuum because
• 46:04
  Speaker 9: they don't talk. So that's at that industry level. But
• 46:07
  Speaker 9: I think the other thing she has is hard as
• 46:09
  Speaker 9: thick as a rhino. She's been around for how long
• 46:12
  Speaker 9: twenty ish thirty years. People have seen her villified and
• 46:16
  Speaker 9: hang in there's there's no heirs and graceism. This isn't
• 46:20
  Speaker 9: an ad for her, but I understand the attraction. I agree,
• 46:24
  Speaker 9: and she's saying the same things now more or less
• 46:27
  Speaker 9: than she has for thirty years. We haven't got a
• 46:29
  Speaker 9: changed position.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: That consistency is key, isn't it, Caroline.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: The Liberals against net zero now, but they've been had
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: every position on that over the past twenty years. And
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: I said at the top of the show that it's
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: the forgotten people that the Liberals have seen to have forgotten,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: that she's talking to Robert Menzies forgotten people.
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: Well, I wouldn't quite.
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't quite put it that far.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: You would no.
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: Absolutely good And you might say that, but you know,
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: as a state president here actually talk to those people
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: all the time. And I feel to that information up
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: and I know that our parliamentarians, particularly here in Way,
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: and I obviously can't say for the other states because
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: I'm not there on the ground with them, but mine
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: are on the ground with constituents and out in the
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: community all the time. So look, it may not necessarily
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: be as public as what we've seen out of one
• 47:22
  Speaker 5: nation over the last few weeks in particular, but it
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: does absolutely happen, Chris, So I think that that there
• 47:29
  Speaker 5: is perhaps a little bit unkind, even though it may
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: not necessarily, it may not necessarily show in a policy
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: sense the way that you think it does. But often
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: there's a great number of stakehold It's not just one.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: It's not unkind. It's well intentioned and sound advice I
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: would have thought.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: But don't worry.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: No matter where your thoughts are on politics or policy,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Albo's got the solution. He's jumped on the soccer as
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: bandwagon and here he is on social media.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: Can you believe this gym? He's in the Guernsey, he's
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: got the thumbs up. He doesn't think the whole country's
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: cringing on his behalf.
• 47:59
  Speaker 9: Well, this is the bloke who still thinks there's nothing
• 48:01
  Speaker 9: to see about the budget, So why would anyone be surprised?
• 48:04
  Speaker 9: That's the most crim cringe worthy thing I've seen in
• 48:07
  Speaker 9: a long time. I mean, you know, looking for diversions,
• 48:11
  Speaker 9: it's not going.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: To help knock.
• 48:13
  Speaker 9: It's certainly not helped the coverage I've seen, the sort
• 48:16
  Speaker 9: of social commentary I've seen about a prime minister who's
• 48:18
  Speaker 9: under a great deal of pressure. And yet how long
• 48:20
  Speaker 9: has it's been, Like you and I've been around a
• 48:22
  Speaker 9: long time, I've never seen a budget with a stench
• 48:25
  Speaker 9: of death around it like the way this has, that
• 48:27
  Speaker 9: a month and a bit later is still being talked about.
• 48:30
  Speaker 9: Is still there is still rage in this country about
• 48:34
  Speaker 9: the disconnect, the socialist money grab and this makes.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: Soccer as jet bandwagons.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Just of course, just quickly, you've got to show some
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: of these pictures from the White House where there was
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: the UFC fight put on today by the President, the
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: flyover and all the rest of it.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: Caroline, this is just incredible.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: At the same time, he's announcing what's supposed to be,
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: you know, a world changing peace plan.
• 48:57
  Speaker 5: Well, if a multitasker, isn't he Crimson, I think you.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Know, you do.
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: Sometimes you think it looks a bit chaotic, and I
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: think sometimes it does look a bit chaotic, but he
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: can definitely keep several balls in there.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is.
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: The most American celebration known to me.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: It's too much the Land of the Free, the home
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: of the brave and slightly crazy.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: And Caroline, I'll see you tomorrow night. Peter Kredlin's up next.