Latest / Cait & Court's Cozy Corner: Romance Readers / Let's Talk About: Daggermouth by H.M. Wolfe
Transcript
- Caitlin Stryker: Executive producers and hosts, Caitlin Stryker and Courtney Richter, producers, Canasia Ngo and Holly Lobosky Original music, Cassie De Silva. This is a podcast for lovers of romance and romantasy novels who want to go on a deep dive into their favorite genre. Honest discussions and salacious details giving romance books the respect they deserve. We are two friends, actors, moms and romance readers who like a bit of spice and everything nice in their books. You know the drill. Be sure to like and subscribe wherever you listen to our podcast. Courtney: Thanks for tuning in to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner Romance Readers. Caitlin Stryker: Hi, I'm Cait Courtney: And I'm Court. Welcome to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner Romance Readers. As we like to say, you don't need spice for a book to be good. Well, you don't need running shoes to run, but they sure do help. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ Courtney Richter: Hi. Canasia: Hi. Caitlin Stryker: All right, welcome back to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner. ⁓ We are so excited to have you guys with us today. ⁓ Also very funny, we've had a bunch of technical difficulties signing on right now. ⁓ Courtney Richter: You Mm-hmm. Yes, that's why I'm so excited that we heard Canasia because it's been a minute trying to work. Canasia: Yes. Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, which is really brilliant because today we have with us, Canasia Ngo, who a influencer and also producer on our show. helps us with all of our social media because Court and I are millennials and we're bad with our phones. I I'm ⁓ awful with my ⁓ and Court, I she was like brilliant with hers and Canasia's like, Court doesn't know how to use her phone at all. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Woo! you No. So she's a brilliant content creator. So we brought her on for all of our. Yes. Canasia: Bye! Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yes, yes. And so I just think I love the irony that it's like, this is our team. Well, this is three members of our four person team and the amount of technical difficulties we had walking in today. Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: We clearly don't have a technical producer. That's the part we're missing. We don't have the behind the scenes like Robbie Robb, Armchair Expert. We don't have that person, clearly. Canasia: Yes. Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: No, no, which I just, but I love it, but we're doing it anyway, you know, so yay us. I also have to point out today that you guys might, my headphones snapped and I have put them together with duct tape and I'm like, do you see the like? Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. ⁓ I love it. I wouldn't have noticed until you showed me right now. Now that's all I can see. Canasia: ⁓ my gosh. I know, because I can see the onion. Caitlin Stryker: see you as well. ⁓ But it just makes me laugh. So I'm like, it's fine. I'm making do and then I'm like, this is not, Caitlin, what are you doing? This is not tenable. Like we cannot continue this way. So I will be ordering some new headphones. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yeah. My friend last night was like, she listened to the Call Me Daddy podcast or whatever because Sarah J Maas was on there obviously. And she's like, we need to get you a table like she has. Who do we talk to about getting you a table? I'm like, no, we like that we're like casual homemade kind of feel, but now we're going a new level with our talk date. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Canasia: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah! I mean, I love, I do love that we are like glue and popsicle sticks and just like, you know, like this is very, very real. We're not like a fancy, it's cozy. We're in our cozy corners. Look at Kenasia's cozy corners. Speaking of which. Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: Headphones. cozy. Yeah. I know I'm obsessed. How beautiful this is in the binary. This is what happens when you don't have kids Cait you can like grow. Canasia: Yes. ⁓ yes, yes, yes. There's so much. Yes, yes. Caitlin Stryker: What? I know, right? Like our kids' rooms look great. Courtney Richter: They've got all the good shells. I love it, Canasia. It's so good. Caitlin Stryker: We are like shoved in little corners, but ⁓ my god, it's beautiful and I love the plant. Is that a real plant up there? It looks fake. It's so pretty. Okay, okay, okay. Canasia: Yes. Thank you. No, those are fake. All the plants are fake. They would die. They would die within like five seconds. Caitlin Stryker: The only house plant I can keep alive is apophos. That's it you guys. Apophos, like everything else I've tried has just like died on me and I'm like, all Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. ⁓ I don't even try. My husband does all that. He loves plants and greenery. Him and my son, they're like the big. So we have like a greenhouse in our windows that they rotate every day and move and care. And I just can't even, I am like, why do you have to care about a plant? Just like it's there. It's supposed to just be there, but apparently it's not. It needs a lot of care. Caitlin Stryker: Nice. See, yeah. Right? Pothos, pothos are just there. They're just there for you. They're there to make you feel great and they can handle tons of neglect and snake plants as well, actually. Yeah, those are the two that are easy. Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: ⁓ ⁓ good. Yes, those are easy. And then one that has like that white flower. There's like big green leaves and that white flower that's like. Caitlin Stryker: I don't Yeah. yeah. I think that's a kind of pop-up sexually maybe. I know the one you're talking about. But anyway, so we have we have Lance. ⁓ We have Canasia with us today, which is really exciting because she she is the one who like helps keep us hip and cool and like our ear on the ground. And and Canasia, was it you who were like Courtney Richter: ⁓ maybe that's the only one I've kept alive. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: who brought today's book to us or is it court did you find it from another friend okay Courtney Richter: She sent it to me. And she like, but literally, like, can Asia sent it to me, my friend Lindsay sent it to me, someone else and the book talk, one of the ones I follow all the time also was like talk, I'd like seen this book come up and up and up. And then can Asia sent him like, okay, it's amazing. Like, this is getting published. So grab the indie copy now, because it's gonna disappear, and you won't be able to get it for a few months. So that's what I was like, okay, on it. Canasia: Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Right. Mmm. Yeah. Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: But we had such a full TBR, I'm like, have to read this before I Caitlin read it. And then I read it and then I'm like, oh no, no, no, we've got to do this instantly. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. ⁓ because it got to the point with the TBR where I said to court I was like, do not shove another book in my face. Like I am drowning in books right now. I just put like a hard no, a hard boundary and then court comes in and she's like, Daggermouth by H.M. Wolfe. We have to and I literally like the resistance that almost a little bit of rage actually came. I was like, Canasia: ⁓ gosh. Courtney Richter: Hahaha! Canasia: Yeah, yes. Courtney Richter: Yep. Caitlin Stryker: Not another one! This keeps happening! And then I like do a little sleuthing for like two seconds and I'm like, ⁓ stop everything! ⁓ Canasia: ⁓ my god. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: We have to read this book and we have to talk about it right now. ⁓ Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: ⁓ yeah, if it's coming at me from like five directions, I'm like, okay, this is something. Which it is, I'm so glad we did, because it is amazing. Canasia: Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. One more time for the folks in the back. Today we are talking about Daggermouth by H.M. Wolfe. If you are really into like, you know, ⁓ talk, romanticy, romance books, all that, if you're, if you're paying attention, you've definitely heard of it by now. ⁓ if this is the first time you're hearing about it, then like, ⁓ ⁓ And, ⁓ you're welcome. Courtney Richter: ⁓ Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. It's only been out for like 70 days or something. It's not even that like it just independently got published and took off, right? Can I share? It's like, and that's why it's currently on Kindle Unlimited or website, but it's going to be published. not properly, but traditionally now in, I feel like they're saying in the fall it's supposed to come out. Canasia: Yeah. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: I think it's September. Canasia, do you know more? Canasia: Yes, I believe it's this year, September, October, because I was surprised that they were going to be publishing it very soon. But I guess because it's a very new book that was on Kindle Unlimited for like a very short amount of time, they were just able to process it like very quickly because I think it's a new publishing under Simon and Sushir where they're doing like a Scarlett Press for like romantic books. So I think that's what they're trying to do. And they found this one and we're like, we're going to take it. Caitlin Stryker: Mmm. Courtney Richter: Yeah, they grabbed it quick. Mm-hmm. It's out. It's probably going to do like dig like Dire Bound where it'll come out and paperback first. Usually they come out in hardcover and then paperback. But I think because of the quick release, it'll be paperback and then next year like a special edition is my guess. Yeah. Canasia: right now. Yes. Yes, yes. Caitlin Stryker: Okay, and then am I right that in the little bit of sleuthing that I did am I right that there's a second one already? Like coming out pretty much on the heels of this one with the tradition or Yeah Courtney Richter: Mm hmm. Coming. Well, it'll probably get pushed now because like Direbound did with Furybound. Furybound was about to drop on Kindle Unlimited and then it all got picked up and it all got pushed. Canasia: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I literally read Direbound and I think I told Courtney and the day I finished it was when they got just picked up. So they had to push Fearbound because Fearbound was supposed to release in July the same year, like last year. Yeah, so it was supposed to release literally in the summer, but they pushed it back. It was horrible. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Right. Okay. Got it. Yeah, and now we get it this spring, right? Courtney Richter: Yes, we got this, in May or June. Canasia: Yes, yes. Caitlin Stryker: We do get it this spring. Okay, so that's what's gonna happen with with daggermouth then because I do remember seeing I was like, amazing like in september We're gonna they're gonna do this and then we'll get the second one right away But no, they're totally gonna make us all wait forever um Okay, well in the meantime We can talk about this Book, um, how do we want to do this court? Do you want to give like a little bit? I guess give us the lay of the land with no spoilers. Okay Canasia: Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yes. Yes. I'll give a quick one. Yes, we'll go no spoilers first because this is one of those books like when we did Alchemist if you have not read it, please go read it. We'll talk for a bit and we'll tell you when we'll hit spoilers but um it is amazing. It is a slow burn true enemies to lovers like true true enemies to lovers dark romance that just like takes you along for the ride and like you think You think you can like start predicting you think you're on that train and then it curves another way it goes another like it just keeps you guessing and then it still flips and you're like what the like what just happened? It's so good. So the basis it's about Shit, I'm gonna already mess with the name Shadara Shadara who gets called shade for short in the book It's this world dystopian world. So at the heart of it is the heart Which is also called new Caitlin Stryker: Yup. Yup. Shadara. Canasia: Shadara. Caitlin Stryker: Well whole town is called Newfound Haven. The whole city. The whole city. Canasia: New hate, Courtney Richter: Newfound Haven, the whole city's Newfound Hayden and in the middle where all the rich and fancy people live is the heart and then the outer ring of that is the cardinal and then the outside of that is the boundary. That dystopian setup we have seen in books before of how it kind of layers out and the further you go out the poorer they are the less resources they have the more they're just like sent there to die and they kind of just keep hanging on by their wits basically and scrappy and so Caitlin Stryker: Mm. Yeah. Courtney Richter: She lives in the boundary, but she's part of this group of resistance fighters and killers called the Daggermouths, and they take on contracts to kill people essentially. That's what she does. And she gets a contract to kill Grayson, who is also the executioner. Caitlin Stryker: He's the executioner and he's the son of the dictator of the whole place. Courtney Richter: Yeah, the president, the dictator, Maximus, and it's to kill him. And she's like, ⁓ because she he killed her parents, his dad killed her parents. And so she's this is like personal for her. And she wants to take him out, essentially. And so she takes the contract and like, Yes, I'm going to do this. And then comes this hot guy Jameson, who clearly she seems like she uses for his body a lot, but he's like, desperately in love with her a little bit. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: And they like hook up and so you get some steam right away into some kind of similar to dire bound where we just like hit it right away. But you're not like you haven't gotten into the book yet. So you haven't had a slow build or like carrots just like little spice. And then he's like, basically begs her to please not take this contract because it's so dangerous because basically to get into the heart of the city is almost impossible without being killed. And then if you manage it, getting out alive after you've killed him will also be impossible. And so he's like, this is a death warrant. Like, please don't do it. But of course she's still like, I'm going to do it. because there wouldn't be a book. ⁓ She goes to try to kill him without getting the civil spoiler yet. She makes her way in. She gets in there and she has this perfect shot when he's up on the execution because the way that they do it is anytime anyone breaks a lot, any kind of law, if it's falling in love with someone from a different ring, you're not allowed to love someone that's not in your same standing. If it's stealing food because they're literally starving to death. talking to people, like any little tiny law that this president has made to keep control, they execute you. It's just like no trial, just boom, you're being executed. And so like every day it seems like he goes up there with like a couple of people and then he asks them, how do you want to be killed? And they always pick gun and he shoots them. And he's having a hard time with it. He's like starting to... ⁓ Hesitate it's not as simple for him. He's he doesn't love his role He doesn't have a choice his father's like groomed him to be this guy and he has to do it But we see from his point of view like that. It's not something he enjoys doing it's just something he has to do and She gets a shot and she doesn't take it because she decides she wants to get up close and personal she needs it to be a personal kill and She manages to sneak her way and get him one-on-one when he's about to get set up with a marriage ceremony With his woman. Oh the very big thing is in this world In the heart, everyone wears masks. You don't see the person's face. It's another thing that the president has put is that you are masked. No one knows what you look like. You cannot reveal your face until you marry someone through the bond. And when you have the unveiling ceremony, the unveiling ceremony, unveiling ceremony is essentially your wedding. Then you can reveal your face to each other. And it's like this commitment forever. That's the sacred thing, a part of their law that has written into this world. And so he's being set up with this woman that he's going to have to have the unveiling ceremony with. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: when Shay breaks in and is about to kill him, he takes off his masks as like one last defiance. She sees his face. She doesn't have a mask and they see each other's face and then people walk in and catch them like trying to kill each other, like actively fighting, trying to kill each other. And the solution they come up with because the family that he was supposed to marry are like hardcore by the rules, will not let this be like forgotten about. And so the king is like, well, they're getting married then. And they like come up with a plan that they're going to make her like the face. of the resistance because the resistance that I've been fighting the heart, ⁓ they're going to make her like a pawn basically and she'll like, we can control everyone. That's kind of the setup after the first little bit of the book is where we get to. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. That's the set. Yeah. Yeah. That is the setup. And that is like also, I mean, you hit it pretty early on with the two things one that we get spice right away, which I love and it works too. Because the connection the connection with Jameson is there. It's not one of those, you know, like, like, it's like, ⁓ okay, this is fun. This is cool. You can tell Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: Mmm. Yes. Yeah, he's very likable. You know he genuinely feels for her and she's like shut that part of herself down. And so you can invest without feeling like that it has to be. I don't know if that explains it well, but yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, no, that does that explains it well. So it's like it's really enjoyable. And you're also kind of like, ⁓ okay. And then you feel like, ⁓ well, you know, there's gonna be another guy here. And as you start to feel, you kind of immediately I was like getting attached to this Jameson guy, like he's pretty fucking cool. Courtney Richter: He's honestly he's one that I was like, I don't think of the only note I literally said to Cait about this book I'm like and to Canasia and I was like six stars. No notes like what I love this book But again, and I always this happens to me a lot and we've talked about this quite often Like I do get caught up in love triangles. I really always have a hard time No, even though, you know, it's an enemies to lover, you know This is slight spoil, but like Grayson will eventually be the other left triangle between the three Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah! Courtney Richter: But I still like, still love Jameson. Like I didn't feel like that was a clean enough separation for me to be totally like, and now he, we're here. Like I had a hard, yeah, that's the only thing that I'm like, mm. Caitlin Stryker: I Yeah Q, Canasia how did you feel about Jameson? Canasia: I actually am on the other end. I actually really didn't like Jamison. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ my gosh! I love this. Courtney Richter: ⁓ interesting. I thought you went because he's like an older man going. Canasia: my god, no, unfortunately I didn't really like him. When he was introduced into the book, I was like, oh, I already know he's probably not gonna be the main main love interest, because obviously we already know Grayson's gonna be it. I think it reminded me similar to Hunger Games where it's Pita and Gale, and Jameson just reminded me of Gale, and being that overprotective, like MMC, obviously he really cares about shade. Courtney Richter: Right. Yes, yes, yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Hmm... Yeah. Courtney Richter: Right. Canasia: obvious reasons but I just think he was like very overbearing because I know Shane is like a very independent, very strong female main character which I really loved but for Jameson like was just very yes yeah but for I don't know why yeah Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Yes, she really is. She really is. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yeah, that's a good point. I see what you're saying there. I love the Hunger Games comparison. I forgot about that. It's been so long. We did. Courtney Richter: But I loved Gail in Hunger Games 2. Like I also loved, I loved PETA, of course, but I wasn't like, ⁓ drop him. Well, and also it was a Hemsworth playing him in the movie too, which made it like, well, maybe take a piece before you jump over to PETA. Canasia: I did love Gail. Caitlin Stryker: Well, that's true. Yeah. Canasia: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, right? You're like, ooh. Just... Yeah. Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: just sample before we just fully go that way. But I still was torn on that. Like I do, it's weird. I know the right choice and I know PETA was the right choice in Hunger Games. That is a very good comparison. This is like a super dark Hunger Games to a degree in terms of love triangle, dystopian, not the worlds, but. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. to a degree. ⁓ Canasia: Yeah, yes, because it's kind of like the 2010s, like the nostalgic, like the Hunger Games divergent, like that dystopian world. Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: was gonna say hunger game, cyber urgent, giving it's giving that vibe, like because when court she was like, Oh my gosh, Cait, you're it's like so like alchemized. And I started I was like, this isn't like alchemized. was like, this is like it's a dark romance. Like it's a really, you know, dark romantic the all this stuff. And I was like, but it didn't have the same Courtney Richter: Yeah, yeah. Canasia: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ well a alchemist has that crazy body horror that like never stops. And then also the language of alchemist was like super poetic. This one is, ⁓ is it is an easier read? Like it's an easier like hook you in. It's very dark like otherwise. And then what? Yeah. Cause I mean, there's some stuff when we get further along, that's just like, holy shit. then no. Courtney Richter: 100 % it's easier, but it is dark like Alchemized. Yes. Canasia: Yes. Yeah. Yes, like. Courtney Richter: The first 50 pages don't seem like it. Like the first 50 pages, you're like, what is it? It takes a minute to get into that way. Like it does to build into for sure. Canasia: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. And then where it really, really got me and this is the other point that you made early on that I was like, and then I want to get to this point is every, every time I thought I knew what was coming next. I was like, okay, you know what I mean? I'm like, I've got this book figured out. It turned a different direction. I was like, what? And I love that. Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Canasia, I know you read like an insane amount like court does as well and everything and I'm just curious because I know court what you said you were kept being like, whoa, whoa, did you find that too? Or were you like, I've read this before. Like. Canasia: I think there's like one twist that I had a feeling it was gonna come up. Like I was not gonna say now when we talk about the spoilers, but there was like one that I knew that was coming up. Cause I just had a feeling like maybe like halfway into reading I was like, ⁓ like this is for sure gonna happen. But I think there was two big ones I didn't realize that were gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Courtney Richter: guess. ⁓ Yes, yes, exactly. There's one I am curious to see if we land on the same. Well, should we just dive? Okay, we should dive into spoilers. So if you haven't read it, and you're going to read it, or like you actually read your TBRs, go read this and come back. If you're never gonna read them, just listen to us talk about it, because it's a great book and really fun. And I can't wait for you to hear a little twist. But if you're going to read this at all, please go read it now and then come back and listen to us because it's so good. Caitlin Stryker: It's time. Yeah. Yeah. It's so fun. It's so timely. It is like... Courtney Richter: It is but you do have to jump past the first 50 pages like you have to get into it before then you're on the ride. No. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, but 50 pages isn't that long to get into a book. I mean, I think it takes that long for any book. You know what I mean? But like, it's a fast read and it is for, this book is right now. it's so... Courtney Richter: very fast. ⁓ it's so current. And like, the feminism in this book is just like, that's what I think got me like the same way that alchemist got me emotionally with like that relationship, the feminism in this book is I think what got my emotions when I'm like, I'd like alchemize that way that it stayed with me like there's parts of this book that stay with you. And that was why I'm like, it's like that out of everything we've read, like Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Canasia: Yes, because it reminds me of Handmaid's Tale a little bit. Makes with dystopia, yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm Yeah, it's Hammett's tale tale. I'm like, it's just, there's, there's something to this book that's special. And I think even with the first 50 pages, why I say that is because when I started reading it, especially when you read a book, hiked up, you immediately judge you just judge faster. And so you will be like, Hmm, is this what is this? Like, I don't see what they're talking about yet. And you won't until you get a bit further. And then you're there. Caitlin Stryker: Yep. Canasia: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, you do. You do. Canasia: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. No, you won't. And that's a great point to make, Court, because this is super hyped and we're like hyping it like crazy right now too. So somebody could easily pick it up and be 25 pages in and be like, okay, nice try ladies. But it's like, no, no, no, no, Like keep going and then you'll hit it. then like, I don't know, I think it's really hard to like not to be like living in our world that we live in right now in this like current geopolitical climate and not. Courtney Richter: No, keep going. Caitlin Stryker: be, you know, there's a reason this blue is blowing up as fast as it is. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yeah. Canasia: Yeah, and also like, think when people see it, they think it's just a romantasy. when it was first introduced to me too, I thought it was just like a romantasy. I'm like, ⁓ like it's going to be very like heavily focused on romance. Like even though it's claimed to be dystopian, like I doubt that's really going to happen because it's happened with like Silver Elite before. it was like very like, the romance was kind of just like a subplot, which I really liked. I really liked it was focused more on like the world itself. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Yeah, it was the B point, like exactly. And that's also why I think I compared to Alchemize. Like they're both the romances, the B storyline, B, C. It's the dark, it's the world, the Stopean world that's actually the focus of the book. Yeah, yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Canasia: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yes! Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. All right. So if you listen beyond this, you're gonna get spoilers. You've been warned. All right, weird. Okay. Okay. I want to know right away then, Canasia, what is the, what is the twist that you saw coming? Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. you Canasia: That the brother was alive Yeah, yeah Well Courtney Richter: Yes, I saw that coming too. I knew the brother was going to be alive. I didn't think that he was going to be working for the dad though. I didn't see that twist. didn't see Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ yeah, yeah yeah. ⁓ you knew that early? didn't... No! Canasia: Okay, yeah that one didn't see because I feel like with dystopians the brother is always somehow like the person who gets killed apparently is always somehow still alive and is working with the rebellion but the twist was that Yeah, but the twist when he's working for his dad that was I was like wait, wait a minute because that's different Yeah ⁓ Yes Yes Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Okay, you guys figured, yeah. Courtney Richter: not seen that yet because he 100 % was in with his dad that was that when I'm like what yeah Caitlin Stryker: How is it tough? That was a tough twist. Like that one was a dagger. Like that reading it, I was like, no. Courtney Richter: right after like Lira and her standing up and like having all the women standing up in white, the worst timing and I'm like, ⁓ one step forward, five steps back. Like it feels so current to now and with President Trump and like what's happening. You're like, why, why, why? There's always some as a whole. What else can we use to distract me abstain files? Yes, like it's just insane. Insane. Canasia: Yeah, like literally everything. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ ⁓ my god. Yes! Canasia: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ my god. In sane. And that's why like we're saying like, it's so timely because it's really absurdly like a baby, you know, it's it's thinly veiled here. But, but, but, but yeah, no, that was such a dagger. And because she, you know, when she had that moment, and we're just gonna go all over the place now when she had that moment at the end layer with her stand. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ I was like, ⁓ this is fun. Okay, so she's taking it out of like the guy's hands. So now the guys aren't doing the rescue, right? And then and then Brooker is like, actually, I've been working with dad the whole time. And then I'm just I was just like, No. What? Yeah. ⁓ Courtney Richter: You couldn't catch your breath. Yeah, like don't, don't let this be like before the next twist that comes. ⁓ my gosh. And so her and Callum and they, ⁓ the Calum. I knew someone was going to die. Canasia: Lyra and Callum are just... Caitlin Stryker: Okay. So hot. That was like that spicy, you guys. ⁓ my God. Canasia: I love them. Bye. Courtney Richter: loved them so much. I'm so sad that that's gone. even, that was the similar feeling to me. I can't even say it cause you haven't read the book. Damn it. I won't say what it reminds me of. We can't say. I'll have to tell you off air cause Cait hasn't read it. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, I knew it. I knew it. Canasia: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah, no, don't tell me I okay a book that I haven't read. Okay, I was like wait We've already taken off that I'm definitely like going to be reading And I but I knew it had to happen because we needed Do we didn't we weren't we weren't attached we'd already detached from Jameson that wasn't gonna the moment Courtney Richter: But, ugh, it broke my heart. It broke my heart. Like, I just... Canasia: Okay. Courtney Richter: was gonna be Jameson. I thought Jameson was gonna get shot. Canasia: No. Yeah. They all- I feel like every fantasy they always kill the character that is gonna be the most beloved one. It always happens. It always happens. But the fact that happened like- The that happened like- The fact that it happened on book one is crazy. It's so early. Courtney Richter: I know, I know why. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ Yes, at some point. Courtney Richter: Not- except for a Quicksilver so far. The redhead's still alive. Yes, it's early. Caitlin Stryker: Crazy! Yes! And I mean, but it was when they were, it was their sex scene. It was their like, you know, total coming together and just how incredible that was and the whole thing and not finished. I was like, mm-hmm, there's, exactly. Courtney Richter: Ugh. and then build up their own slow burn there was two slow burns there's and gray and Shay so Lyra so you guys if you don't know is the sister of Grayson his younger sister that he's been trying to protect and she's been in love with Callum who is Grayson's best friend for like their whole lives and they got together once and then like Calamary is like this would just endanger her and he can't be with her and he thought he's protecting her by never talking to her again and salvaging his friendship with Grayson Canasia: Yes. Yes. Courtney Richter: But they finally like come together and he realizes how many things he missed and that like her father used her body to his men like so many disgusting gross things that she had to go through that he wasn't protecting her at all. In fact, and again, as we always say, he should have just given her the choice and talk to her and given her agency and then he would have known like talk to the freaking women guys just talk to us. That's all it was the conversation. Caitlin Stryker: Mmm. Right? Yeah. Canasia: Yeah. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Hahaha! Canasia: That was all they had to do. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: instead of trying to do what you think protects us as we've learned book over book over book over book ⁓ my god. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah, which is also interesting in this book. ⁓ you know, anyway, so you did, I want to get to talking about things, but the Kalim and Leroy thing, the way they connected, they came together, all of that, that finished, I'm like, he's fucking dead. And just because I was like, it's too, somebody's going to die. That was so amazing that now I almost care more about them than I do about Shady Brinkman. And so Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Canasia: Yeah. Courtney Richter: I know, I know. And she had her huge moment. Cause I'm like, what has she been planning? What has she been trying? Cause she keeps hinting that like she's got her own plan separate from the whole group. So all of them are all planning this big moment to throw a coup at the president at the end of the book. And then she steps up and has this huge moment that she takes off her mask and unzips and all these women. It's like the me too moment. It was like all the women joining and saying me too. It was that moment. Canasia: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. you Yeah. Yeah, it really was. And so that actually plays well the way that it like it was a big moment. And then it was just like doused squashed, you know? Courtney Richter: Yes. Squashed. Yeah. Canasia: Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, which which is ⁓ my god, literally this book. She's just so like she's right on top of everything we're going through now, which is why it is on fire this book. ⁓ And speaking of soup, then you just got to the other thing that I want to talk about was like, talk to one another, you know, I mean, which always in all of these books, right, but you have all these different factions of rebellion that are not working together. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yes Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Whereas you know the president the dictator his whole like team like they are coordinated They are working together. Sure. They have you know, people fractions breaking off within towards the rebellion, but that's minor compared to how much of a one unit they're working as, whereas all the rebellions are like, like everybody in this book, know, especially when we get with our four main, right, you know, we have Shadera, Grayson, Callum and Lyra, and they're all having that conversation and they're like, ⁓ well, this was happening to me. ⁓ this was how, ⁓ you were doing this. ⁓ you were, and then at one point somebody goes, no more secrets. You know, because this is not, and they still. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yes, no one was talking. Canasia: Yes. And they still kept secrets. They still kept secrets. Courtney Richter: They still did, yes. And that's why this keeps happening, what we're seeing in the world, because people don't communicate their own plans with each other and the dictator's always very clear and planned out and manages to stay a step ahead. So okay, Shay and Grayson get locked into a room and the slow burn of them is out back before the ending and the explosions that happen. And that is a slow burn romance. It's true, enemies are lovers, they hate each other. They get to this scene, guys, before they hook up the first time. Caitlin Stryker: Mm. Yeah, let's dial back here. Let's dial back. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is. ⁓ Courtney Richter: They literally shoot each other. ⁓ And it was such a great scene. It was so fun and done so well and the anger and lust and love like line that was walked with them. So well done. And I wasn't sure about Grayson at first because honestly at first as like a gray morally gray ⁓ FMC like or MMC like he wasn't quite Caitlin Stryker: shoot each other. Canasia: Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: I loved it. It was amazing. ⁓ Yeah Same. Courtney Richter: black enough like it like he felt a little like in his morally great soft a little soft early and not that there's anything wrong with that listen I love a guy that has a conscience about killing people in reality but in the book when he first reading you're like why and she's so strong and then she's kind of surrounded by these softer guys but then as he goes through his and what their battle and their slow burn that Caitlin Stryker: mmm yeah soft early right yeah You Mm-hmm. Yeah. Courtney Richter: kind of goes away and you get to see this like other part of him that comes out that is just like he's a decent guy but also super hot and sexy and built and like wants to do the right thing but would be a good leader but also could grab her and just like take her against the wall all of the above Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay, I, I know my I know my moment when Grayson like when I when it clicked for me with Grayson, I'm gonna hold on to it. I want to go like through I want to Kenasia when did it click for you with Grayson? Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: you Canasia: ⁓ honestly, like, I even the first chapter when he was just introduced, I was like, Grayson. Yeah, it was like the first chapter. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: you were like, because you were never into Jameson. So you know, you were like the moment he stepped on stage, I was in. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I knew he was supposed to be the one but he wasn't the one for me for a while. Okay, so court when did it click for you? Courtney Richter: You were Nisha Jamieson, exactly. Canasia: Yes, I was like, I'm to dive in. was like, he is the one. I'm like, Jamison, who cares? Step aside. Courtney Richter: Yeah. I don't remember. ⁓ But I think it's like, I read this two weeks ago, which in my world is like 10 books ago. So, but I think it was two parts that I'm really sticking out to me is the gunfight really was like, okay, it was really hot and sexy. But I think this happened before the bar scene when Jameson is there. ⁓ When Jameson tries to take her out and then he like, converts the two of them. Was it before the gun scene or after? Caitlin Stryker: Okay. Yeah. Mmm, that was hot. Is that right before? Canasia: ⁓ Don't remember. Caitlin Stryker: That's a good question. Courtney Richter: were hot and there's some there's a my wife scene and I can't remember the details of it right now that just Canasia: Yes, that's what I mean. I think he was just like, take your hands off my wife or something like that. It was like, yes. Yes, I was like, yes. Courtney Richter: Yeah, it was just very obsessive and sexy that I loved it. Yes, that was my like this scene. So that my wife scene. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, okay, so that's the Jameson. That was it for me. That was my moment. was when yeah, and but it was a double it was another one of those like double twist moments because she's with Jameson right there at the bar. ⁓ And yes, this is before they shoot each other. This is their, they're out for the night at the bar kind of thing. It's like, ⁓ let's go have you know, like a ⁓ night in the entertainment district. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yes. It's the first moment in their relationship that they've come to this peace settling that he's like, I'm gonna let you have this relief. I'm gonna take you out to a bar. Like he's trying to like, yeah. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah, because she's really been imprisoned in his apartment the whole time. So this is except for when he takes her around, know, and shows her and then he's like, and then we'll go out in the entertainment district this night, you know, whatever. So they're so they're, yeah, so they're going out the entertainment district and they're out and they kind of have like a couple moments. Courtney Richter: Yeah, because Calum owns the entertainment district. Caitlin Stryker: You know and there you you're you're warming up right like if you're in shit airs eyes like in this book Which which I very much was you're weren't you warming up to him you're like alright This is happening, and it's gonna be okay, and then The what was it it's the they're at the bar Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: And then Jameson comes in and he's doing the rescue and he pulls her into that room, right? And you feel her hesitation because she's like, don't know. I'm kind of into this guy and she and that that's all happening, right? We're reading all of that. And then she's like, no, fuck it. Who am I kidding? She's going to go with Jameson and then the door opens. Yeah, it's a rescue op. So she's like going to get changed into the like, you know, the outfit so that she can like sneak out dressed as a Vera. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yeah, because these they to rescue her. It's a rescue operation. So before you say it, a quick pause on it before you do because I want you to continue that behind the scenes while she's been in prison and getting to know Grayson Jameson has been like full launching to rescue her he's been losing his mind and you for me that's when I was building more and more towards Jameson I wasn't like on him right away in the first but those scenes when he's like caring and trying to save her and rescue her and willing to like risk his life but he's doing it like this hot sexy way I was like this guy like he's willing to give everything his life just to like protect her and get her back and he's been worried about her he goes to her boss he faces down these people that Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yeah. Courtney Richter: can kill him in a second like he's and and Jameson sorry is a doctor to children. Like he's basically a pediatrician and a spare time like that's what he does is get medicine and help kids. How can you not also be into Jameson like he is a good guy. sexy gives her orgasms hot. I know he's not crazy but like we really made him a good second. It's here. It was here still at this point until the next scene. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah! Honestly. Yeah. We he was Listen when she was gonna when she's like, yes, I'm escaping with you. I'm like, ⁓ thank goodness. Okay, there is goodness world She's going with the right guy Courtney Richter: When she wouldn't kiss him, when she wouldn't kiss him before he came in, remember he tries to kiss her goodbye and do that? And when she wouldn't, I was like, what? What do you mean? At least have a kiss goodbye? I didn't like that. I was like, I don't think you're this far gone from him yet. I feel like you would kiss him still. Like, I don't think you'd have that restraint yet or had that much allegiance to Grayson yet. And then I had my thought, like, maybe you're traumatized. You're going through a lot of trauma right now. Like, there's a lot happening. So you're like, I don't trust anything. But I was like, Caitlin Stryker: Yes! ⁓ Canasia: ⁓ my god. Caitlin Stryker: Same! No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: Please kiss the dude goodbye. He's just like risk everything for you. Yes! Caitlin Stryker: mean, listen, yes, at this point, I'm like, it is Stockholm syndrome with Grayson. Jamison is the real one, you know? Like you are being fooled. ⁓ And then, and you guys would then like right at this moment, as you are having like, okay, well two is three, but like as like Court and I are having this feeling, reading this book. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: Right then. Yes. or having moments of like, this is the one. Caitlin Stryker: The door opens and then you're like, you, you know, and then you don't see, and then you just hear click. And then you realize Grayson has busted them right as she's about to get free. And he goes, take your hands off my wife. ⁓ my God. And the allegiance switches right then. Boom. Team Grayson forever. It's over for Jameson. Done. Holy fucking shit. I felt so manipulated. Courtney Richter: UGH! Canasia: Yes. Yes. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Sorry! you Canasia: ⁓ my god. Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: And then she's in there and then that moment when she's between the two of them and they both have her hands on them, I'm this is it for me. I'm like, I don't know, why choose? Canasia: ⁓ no, that's true, that's true! Courtney Richter: choose I only discovered I only discovered why choose books really this last year and I'm like where have they been all my life because I love it love triangle I hate when they end because I never want to pick I'm just like this should be famously I was wrong a vampire diaries I wanted Stefan not Damon I think they picked the wrong ones in inheritance games right I feel like I'm Stefan inheritance games wrong brother and inheritance games should have been yes right ⁓ Canasia: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, you know. Canasia: I also want to step in too. Yes, yes. Yes, yes. ⁓ my God, yes. Caitlin Stryker: You Yeah. Yeah. No. Courtney Richter: Blood of Hercules is the only one that got it right as far as I'm concerned, she keeps it. Why choose? I'm like, great. Psycho shifters. Just all get along. Canasia: guess this is choosing. Caitlin Stryker: just everybody is available, you know, yeah, because I mean, oh, but then, you know, I can, oh my God, I can like, feel it like physically you guys, like right now as we're talking about it, like that line, that line. And but then. Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: Yes, I know, it was so intense. Canasia: I mean the second they say my wife, my wife, yeah, it's always that line. Courtney Richter: My wife. Caitlin Stryker: And then this is the part of me that goes, what the fuck is wrong with us? Because of course he's like claiming her as his property. And it's like, bro, why is that turning me on? Courtney Richter: in this feminist driv- Canasia: I know, it just goes... Courtney Richter: Again, look, it doesn't have to be logical. I understand why we're confusing to men. We want you to respect us and make our choices. And then when we say and give you consent, then you can claim us and do what you want in the moment. Consent first, then go away. Canasia: Yes, yes, yes, yes. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Consent, like now take charge. Canasia: Just man handle me, please. Courtney Richter: the months. Caitlin Stryker: you're outside the window back the fuck Canasia: Hahaha Caitlin Stryker: You Courtney Richter: You Caitlin Stryker: It's so true! ⁓ gosh. Yeah. Yeah. This is... Courtney Richter: Yes, thankfully this book takes place in a week so they're probably like green flags. Caitlin Stryker: Right? Canasia: Yeah, it's very quick. Caitlin Stryker: Okay, so did that throw anybody off like as you were reading because I was reading it digitally so I kept you know, like each time it's easy to kind of see where you are and see what the next chapter is called and then when it started to be like timeline I was like What how does this come together? Like where are we like looking at like 3 a.m. 11 a.m. Like I don't know how old anybody is Okay, no wait, so Courtney Richter: Yes still not sure ages either. I don't know how old I don't know how old Lira was because of the five years but like they're in their 30s. Yes. Canasia: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Shadira is in her 30s. So is Grayson's. O'Leary is in her 20s. So she's like 25. She's quite young. I think she's 25 or younger. Oh Grayson and Shadira were like Grayson and Shadira were like the same age. Oh Callum and Lyra. I think that was like a six to seven year age gap. I don't think it was that crazy. Yeah Canasia: Okay. Courtney Richter: Yeah, but I didn't know what the age gap was because she talks about when she was 14 and then they talk about when they were like, not right, not them but Lyra specific. Yes. Okay, I couldn't tell that was the one I was like, I don't know how old she is. Caitlin Stryker: Maybe eight years. It wasn't it wasn't like a massive age gap thing going on there. No Courtney Richter: Okay, she's like a woman now, but flashing back to when she was a teen. And then also five years ago, she was still over 18 when they hooked up. Yeah, yeah. Okay. But because then I'm like, I wonder, I don't know if I buy into her not being sold to someone yet through the dad if she's too far into her 20s. Okay. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Canasia: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she would have been like 20. Yeah. Canasia: Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: she's only like 25. And I think the dad has been using her as a power card the whole time. So he hasn't picked somebody yet because he's like, I've still got Grayson to like marry off and he was marrying Grayson off to that power family. And he's held Lyra Lyra back Lyra back. And he even says that at one point, he's like, Okay, well, now I'm gonna like, you know, he says to grace, he's like, doesn't matter. Like your sister has a perfectly good womb, you know. Courtney Richter: Right. Yeah, right, right, right. I can get another air. Caitlin Stryker: And so I think that's why he was holding her back as long as he could but I understand where your confusion was there But yeah, no everyone was kind of in their 30s then Jagger is older He's like in his 50s and or likely 40s Courtney Richter: Yeah, Jagger's a bit older. Jagger is like a father figure for Shay. So he's probably closer to 50, I would say. Like, Mikhail. I think him and Mikhail are similar ages. Mikhail is the colonel for the president who we think hates Grayson all along and is like subtly like putting digs and getting him down. But it turns out is actually Grayson's real biological father because the mom was having an affair with him. Canasia: Yeah. Yeah, cause he's like a father figure. Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: The Daggermouth Mouth Leader Guy. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Canasia: Yeah. Courtney Richter: and they loved each other, she was forced to marry the president. We find this big reveal as part of the reveals of the reveals. I didn't see him coming as his father either. Caitlin Stryker: Okay. You guys know. Canasia: Yeah. Yeah, that was the other one that I did not see coming. Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: I like, ⁓ didn't see that happening. ⁓ And okay, before we get into the end of reveal, the like torture device that he puts on the mother, that part is what also reminded me to alchemize of like the like gruesomeness of that and hurt it. Like I just couldn't. And now with the lens after the end of the book, looking back on that, I'm like, okay, I get how she might have gone through that. Like, but it's awful. Like, Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ my God. Yeah. Yeah, that was gruesome. Canasia: Yeah, that was tough. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, it's so brutal. But you kind of it really with the end makes sense like without ending the way that it does, which we will get to. It still plays it still plays you know that she's very much so like the tortured elite wife like that. Courtney Richter: Horrible, horrible, horrible. Canasia: Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: And you're like because you do think like why is she just putting up with everything now? It is very well put out that he has such a stranglehold on everything that if anybody goes against him They're dead, you know, even his own family Yeah Yeah Yeah But I mean so like back to the daughter like now that we're in spoilers. Whoa Lyra story like the fact that he like Courtney Richter: ⁓ and it would have threatened his kids to her for sure. She did it for her daughters. Like that was her like thing to keep her safe. ⁓ 100%. Canasia: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: ⁓ it's that part like fucked with my head. Like that's so gross and hard. That was the hardest part. Neither. Canasia: That was very... Yeah. I was not expecting that. Caitlin Stryker: Neither was I and so when that comes out that she's like when she Canasia: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ who tried to kill them in their place, Grayston and Chidira and Callum. And she comes in and she's all mad and she's very mad at Callum for, know, and Callum's feeling bad. She's like, now she knows how dark of a person I really am. And then she's like, what was his name? Give me the gun and goes and like shoots him and comes back. And then we find out that her dad, the president allowed 14 or was it 11? Allowed 11 of his men. She, when she was 14 to like, Canasia: 11. Courtney Richter: She was 14, yes. Canasia: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: individually over a period of a couple months or whatever have their way with her to to secure the allegiance of these men or whatever it is like yeah Courtney Richter: Yeah, he gifted her to them and they raped her and it's so disgusting until the mother found out and then put a stop to it by prompt threatening suicide basically, which the image meant everything. Again, a leader that needs image to be, you know, powerful. ⁓ Yeah, that whole part was just so disturbing. And I guess again, that's where I guess I get keep Canasia: Yes. Yeah, that was tough. Caitlin Stryker: which would make him look weak. Yeah. Yeah. Canasia: Yeah, that's Courtney Richter: where I keep tying it to alchemist because those other books don't well handmaid's tale does. But yeah, like those there's these moments that but here's the thing and I am not one to read about rape or about like I can't handle it is too real. It's too like on the surface. But the way it's done in this book and say like an alchemist it is digestible like as much as it could be that it's so interwoven in the story that you can do that without that being like where you land and be like I can't get past this. Caitlin Stryker: Those two. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, and you're not, well, in Alchemist you are to an extent, but in this one you're not living the moment of the scene, you're just hearing her tell her story, ⁓ which is like shocking and really does sort of like stop the whole room and everything, you know, and. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yeah, yeah, it's in the past. Canasia: Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: And but it also does explain and even the torture chamber that the mothers held in ⁓ these things do sort of explain, you know, as the reader like, because there are going along like, how does this guy have this power over everybody, the president, you know, like, why is Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: he doing this and by individually like you know torturing in secret everybody in a different way and making them feel very ⁓ traumatized and separate from one another and in ways that we you know where we were talking about earlier how they don't even that nobody's communicating with one another except for everything's happening in secret and he knows about all of it Courtney Richter: It's all in secret and he actually knows about it all, which is the. And we find out the end like he's been in on it the entire time, which is like he because Grayson was giving medical supplies to the boundary and has been sneaking and think he's been doing this all on his own. And then we find out that the father knew about it all along, ⁓ but was kind of OK with it because he had the older brother, Brooker, who you think is dead, the whole. ⁓ Canasia: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Canasia: which is great. Courtney Richter: book until towards the end who comes out as part of the resistance and is like there with them to take them dad and then as we talked about earlier you get to the twist that he's actually working for his dad enjoying the resistance for his dad. ⁓ Canasia: Yes, witches. Caitlin Stryker: moment is really, really kicking the tits. It's really just like Canasia: Yeah, because it reminds me of Diarybound when you found out Lee is the prince. Yeah, that reminded me of that. I was like, god, god, of course that would happen. Of course. Yes. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yeah, I know why. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. You're like, fuck. Fuck, fuck, fuck. Courtney Richter: Of course, yes. But good for her, because it was a different move that I did not see coming. Him alive and him being part of the resistance, we saw coming. And then you're like, ⁓ wait, hold on, watch this. Canasia: Yes ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Canasia: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, but I feel like she did that. Like she just does it at every turn in this book, HM. Well, she's like, here's what they think is gonna happen. Hard right other direction, you know, ⁓ which is like part of why we all love it so much, especially those of us who read a lot, because it does get to a point sometimes where you're like, okay, yeah, you know. Yeah. Canasia: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, it's hard to find a romance that feels fresh, that keeps you turning, that keeps you going, that you haven't read this, version of this. And I often will catch that, even when I know I'm fine with it, but this one really was different. And I'm like, okay. Canasia: Yeah. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Yeah. And not even just a version of it, but also where you're reading it and you are like, oh, this is why this is happening, you know, or like, this is why. Like sometimes it's like, okay, but if you just did this, if you just pull this one thread, everything's fine, you know? Whereas in this one, you're like, there's... There's too many, if you think if you pull this thread, like you think if they were all talking to each other, it would be fine. And then like the Brooker thing throws that off because he's manipulated everybody. So then in a way they were right not to be talking to each other because if they had been, then he would have known even more sooner, you know? And it's like, Courtney Richter: Yay! ⁓ Canasia: Yes, yes. Yes. Courtney Richter: Yes. ⁓ I do love the one thing that dad didn't know that surprised him was Lira and her movement with the women. That's the one thing he didn't account for is he coming and I loved that part. at least. ⁓ Canasia: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Canasia: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: I loved that. I loved the description of like the women taking off their masks and then taking off their robes and just being an all in the white slips. And I loved how there was more than one of them with and I didn't love it because for them but I loved how it it proved that like the level of sickness of the society like the amount of the women with bruises on their bodies you know what I mean and other things where it was like they're not safe in their homes like this level of oppression isn't ⁓ Canasia: Yeah, just. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Nobody is functioning in a healthy way. Anyone. Like the one person at the top. Yeah. Courtney Richter: It's not serving anyone but the people at the top, as always with the dictatorship. It only serves the dictator. Canasia: Yeah. Yeah, because I remember Leera had mentioned to Kalan, I believe, that the dad would underestimate women, basically. And there was a whole speech that she does, which I really love the whole thing. It was done so well. And also he speaks to what's happening even today, which is kind of sad that it's still happening today. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yes. The speech was so good. Caitlin Stryker: Yes, that was so good. ⁓ Courtney Richter: So that's the interesting thing with this book, right? Is that Lyra honestly ends up being a voice for women in general. Most women I think will identify with it and like what she says and it's so profound and we can all see ourselves and like want to be part of that movement and be with the women that are standing up and be part of that. And yet she's not the main female character. So that also doesn't happen very often that the secondary one you also can align yourself with so strongly, which is also why I think we attached ourselves to the Calum in her story. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Canasia: Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: So it was almost like two female main characters because her it didn't start that way. But hers became so big that you would normally think would happen and say like the second book would be like Lyra, right. But the twist at the end that we all find out is that the mom is the Python has actually been the mastermind behind everything biting her time to take down the president and like, arise in the nick of time at the end, and we realize she's the mastermind behind all of it as the Python, which is what the second book is called. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Courtney Richter: And it's like another woman, the women in this book take it. They are the strongest. That's why the guys seem soft around even as Shay, like because it is about the women. That's what's so wonderful about this book. We are the ones as in real life that plan and actually can get shit done and like take our time and agents and like fix things. But it's definitely like in the first book, a lot of surprises that you usually see play out over longer amount of books in series, which I love. Canasia: Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because it's a du... you know it's... it's because it's a duology. This is only going to be two books, this whole thing. Yeah. Courtney Richter: And it's our first one. So it wasn't a traditional publisher being like, no, push this put like normally an editor traditional publishing would go in and be like, no, no, no, let's make this three books. Let's make this five books. We all do. We all do. It's just for money that they make us read four fucking books. It's annoying. Canasia: Yeah. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. or like, yeah. But I like it better this way. it's, it's always, yeah, yeah. Canasia: Yes. Yeah. Yes. I think everyone does. Yes. Yes. Yes. Courtney obviously has some very strong opinions about that. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah, like don't drag it out if it's not there. Yeah. Courtney Richter: get so mad. I'm like, this should be two books. This should be what like that doesn't need five just like, ⁓ I hate it, but it's Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. No, I mean, it's it also speaks to like, you know, like, it's why certain things that have been done outside of the traditional kind of like money making, you know, larger machine are blowing up and everyone is loving them so much more. And it's because it's done properly. It's done the way it's meant to it's not done just for the commerce. It's like allow the art, even if it is pop art, like allow the Canasia: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yes, because they're satisfying! Yes. Yeah, it does have the filler. Caitlin Stryker: to be first and trust that the artist has more in them for other stories, other books, other shows, other whatever, but like let it be told in the way that it needs to be told. Don't stop fucking dragging everything out. It's so boring, you know? Yeah. Courtney Richter: Guess. Yes. Wait, who has time? It already takes so much time to read books. And then if you're reading filler in a book, you're like, come on, we don't need a bottle episode of a book. Like just let us read the story. I said this comment in my post about the Sarah J. Maas unveiling of the two books. And I'm like, they better be thick then. Like if these are small, star quarter star, like frost light style books to like make one book into two for money, I'm going to be so mad. Like they better be worth two books. Canasia: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: No. Yeah. Canasia: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Mmm. Yeah. Well, the story better really be there too. Courtney Richter: Because if it's one book broken up into two just for money and time, I am going to be very upset. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Rightfully snow. You know, because you see how well this works in this one. And like I love so the at the very, very, very, very end, you know, and a Lara the mom who you really have been like, like, we know you've been through it, but like, fuck you a lot, a lot over and over again. Canasia: Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Fuck this bitch basically. You've been disappointed by her. You've been disappointed by her. Yeah. Cause her kids have been and through their lens you see they've been disappointed by her. Canasia: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Children have been traumatized on a level where it's like ⁓ you needed to kill that motherfucker and asleep a long time ago, you know ⁓ and so when she comes out and you realize like and it is because can Asia I love you make that point about Lyra's speech and the women being underestimated and it is because that that Maximus the president wasn't looking at the women You know what I mean, except for shadera except for shade ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: But he really wasn't he and he underestimated just how strong she was as well like how much she would be able to withstand. ⁓ But he wasn't looking at the women like in his family right there. He thought like, ⁓ they're nothing like I've already got them covered. They're so weak. They're just like being too appalled. And then the mom pulls up her mask is like, I'm the Python. And and you realize to the way she says it, I'm like, ⁓ because he kept talking about like these other cities and these other you know, like that are further away. And I'm like, ⁓ she's been communicating like outside Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: to them as well like they're like this is like bigger than Newfound Haven you know you have Courtney Richter: She's the full ringleader of the resistance. ⁓ Canasia: Yeah. Courtney Richter: And you've heard Python be mentioned. You've heard crumbs of Python and people have said it's someone that I thought has been out of the game for a long time. Like they thought she'd gone dormant and dead. didn't know as much as Brooker was like lying dormant city for like six years. She's been doing it for like 20. Like it's, it's huge. It's a huge moment. We're like, wait, what? Especially cause she waited and you just lost Callum. ⁓ Canasia: Yes. Yes, yes. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Amazing. Canasia: Yes. It's like how she just waited. She just waited for the right moment. Because like, I'm gonna shh. Yes, because I'm just saying. Because I'm just saying, same with the men, like Jameson like trying to like rush and get done, like doing something very quickly. Like all the men were trying to do something very quickly, but all the women, they waited. They waited for their perfect moment. They didn't need to rush into it because they were already planning it ahead of time. They were just waiting, which I really like. Caitlin Stryker: And it's so, it was so satisfying. Yeah. Courtney Richter: You needed a win Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Yes. Loved it. Canasia: as well. Caitlin Stryker: I did too and I liked in the end that like the women saved themselves. You know, I sort of saw it coming with Lyra with her thing and then I was like, Oh, maybe she shut down all this stuff and that's why Callum has to run. And I was like, Oh, she's got like a bigger thing going on. And then that kind of got shut down, you know, and I was like, shit, okay. Cause I was really at that point I was like, Oh, the women are going to save themselves. It's amazing. And then it wasn't until like the last couple of pages and then Python comes out and I was like, Oh, yes, the women are going to save themselves. That's like, this is amazing. Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yeah. Canasia: Yes. Yes. Courtney Richter: Yes! ⁓ Canasia: Yes. Yes. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: And it was so satisfying and I found myself reading this there were points where I was like, you know You can get into like it's a little bit of a rage read But then it also just felt and I don't know if I I'm just like somebody who does this, you know, I read a book about Invisible women it was like the data of how like around the world treated as second class citizens. if we weren't at like the world economy would actually be better like the data is on our side. And you could read that book and be really sort of depressed, you know, or angry and like same with this book, you could read it and just like read read it and just be fucking furious and just like the whole thing. And there is that element to Then I came out of it and it felt like so empowered and calm. You know, I was like, ⁓ like it like took all that rage and like channeled it in a way and I was like, Courtney Richter: Yes. Mmm. Caitlin Stryker: we got this. No, that was I just kind of like, which to me feels more empowering than like, just kind of like blind anger because you know, they're where do you go from there? Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: Yeah, I think it's more, I think I agree that I felt more empowered than rage at the end of it of like, well, we can, but still not, like, and then you just look at the news and then you're just in rage again, but ⁓ for a moment. Canasia: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. But like, feel like female rage, think men think it's like women throwing like a tantrum, like being all crazy and everything, but female rage is really being like quiet and like, like internal. Yes. It's that calm basically. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah Mm-hmm. Yes, it is that calm. It is that like Yeah, yeah, I think you're right Yeah Courtney Richter: Thinking. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How do we fix this? What do we do? Listen, whatever the underground woman movement is that's gonna fix this, message us, we'll join you. Well, that's our, I'll sign up with the leaders out there getting this going. Canasia: Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. We're in. This is our code to Python. Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: But you're right, Canasia. That's a really good point. It is that quiet. Yeah. Or call it to the current Python. ⁓ that is. Canasia: Yes. Yes. Yes. She's waiting. She's waiting. Caitlin Stryker: We're with you. Right? ⁓ my gosh. Courtney Richter: But yeah, you're totally right. It's that quiet power and they're like, Okay, how do we how do we fix this? What do we do? So like, we have the power. So let's just like figure it out. Yeah, it's, it's so good. It's such a good book. was such a good read. And you're at the romance part of it is there at Sloburn has a spice. It's fun. But that's not the main thing of the book at all. It's a dystopian like fantasy more than anything. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Canasia: Yeah, it's a great. Caitlin Stryker: you Canasia: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: No, it's not. Ooh, but before we sign off, do have to Cait court, Canasia. Courtney Richter: ⁓ court, ⁓ Cait, Cait, See you ladies. ⁓ What we want to rate this? How many pumpkins have pumpkin spice meter? Canasia: No Right? Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Canasia, I was like, rid of it. ⁓ Yeah, on the pumpkin space meter, where does it sit? Courtney Richter: Gosh, I have to remember now. I feel like three for me, I think. I remember if it's three, it might be a two. Canasia: Well, I really I felt like it was like One and a half or two because well, I just read it. Look, I literally just finished it like at 4 a.m So I'm like, it's still pretty fresh in my mind Caitlin Stryker: Ew. Courtney Richter: Well, I put it to two, I put it to two if there's sex. Like if there's descriptions of sex, I put it to a two. Caitlin Stryker: Look, you know what? I think it's, I would say it's a three. I think, I think Calum and Lyra bring it to a three. Canasia: Well, there was the script. Yeah, there was like, yeah. Courtney Richter: Other scene. Yeah, it's not like a lot like it's very light but like it's it's I'd say two and a half three in terms of descriptors if you're like if you were just basing it on like a teen like kissing book to like full five minutes. Yeah Canasia: It's not, It's more like, yeah, I would. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah Canasia: Yeah, we'll take two. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, then it's a three. And it's interesting though, because there's all this kind of fiery violence around their sex scenes. They shoot each other, you know what I mean? But there's a lot of like, the thing, I guess why we're landing at this two and a half, three zone is there's a lot where they just, they stop. You know what I mean? They go so far and then it just stops. And then it's like. Courtney Richter: or two. Well, and in these kind of books, it's not the main driving force. So you kind of forget or lose. It doesn't have the same lingering spice that like books that are super spicy or like more in the romance, romance, decide, carry through the storyline. It's more just a secondary part. So even though it's descriptive and hot, yet it feels more like a two to enough because of it's not important. It's important to the story, but it's not the focal point of the story. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Mmm. Canasia: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: No, but there's enough of it. There's enough of it. Like the early on is great. And then there's enough stuff, but there were some points where I was like, okay, come on, are we gonna like, let's get there. Canasia: Yeah Well was like Calum and Lyra when they were having their moment and then Shay and Grayson were locked up. I was like, guys, guys, wait a second. There's something that's happening over there but you guys are doing intimate things. We need to get the story moving. We need to the story moving. I know. Yeah, yeah, because it was like a long scene for them too as well. Yeah, and I was like, there's Shay and Grayson locked up over there. I'm like, guys, let's get back and turn the story. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah Courtney Richter: Yeah this pause we need to get back to like get the better jail Caitlin Stryker: They're locked in cages! Courtney Richter: Yeah, yeah, it's true. Caitlin Stryker: It was. Courtney Richter: Can we save our main characters, please? ⁓ Yes. Canasia: Yeah, so was like, the main characters are kind of important right now. Courtney Richter: So your spice meter is the timing. Canasia: Because it was like, because they didn't realize like, they didn't realize where Shane and Grayson were and then all of sudden they were having an intimate moment. And it was so long and then I'm like, ⁓ okay. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: So that's what makes it spicy and is a long it's a long spice thing so it It does have that spice there, but on preference of when it occurs It's very low Caitlin Stryker: Well yeah, mean he had to give her five orgasms. It is. Canasia: Yes. It was just like the worst moment to do something because I was like, there is something else that's really big that's happening right now. I don't need to do this. Courtney Richter: That's so funny. I was totally fine with it. I was like sure. I'll jump in here for you guys for a bit Caitlin Stryker: I was too. Canasia: Well, I was fine with like, I think it was like after I read it, was like, wait, that like, that scene took way too long. I'm like, Shane Grayson are like suffering right now while they're like doing their thing. Caitlin Stryker: I know, but there wasn't anything they could do for them at that point. They might as well feel good. Courtney Richter: Yeah Canasia: I mean it was a very intimate scene, I really like it, really cute, very nice. Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah, it was hot it was hot But yeah, yeah, no Courtney Richter: Yeah, yeah, that's nice. Canasia: Yes. Courtney Richter: Some point where the world's on fire, you just gotta take your clothes off and have some fun, because what else are you gonna do? You're like, pfft. Yeah. Oh my God, imagine they didn't do that, Canasia. It was actually the only time they could do it, because he was about to die. Caitlin Stryker: I mean, you know, good thing they did too, because then fucking Calum got dead. That was it for them. Yeah. That was like, that was. Canasia: Exactly. Oh wait, that's true, that's true! That's so true. I would've died if they didn't have a moment, honestly. Now that scene makes more sense! Courtney Richter: They had to have their moment. That would have been so much worse. Caitlin Stryker: That was the fuck of their lives. That was it. Courtney Richter: Yeah! Exactly! Yes, that's why it happened there! Because he's about to die when they rescue them! Caitlin Stryker: There you go! Remember I said when they're sexy and finished I was like, oh he's a dead man. I was like that that was so hot. He's dead. Courtney Richter: Yeah, that was too hot. He's gonna go. Canasia: ⁓ my god. Courtney Richter: Ha ha! It's like staying a virgin in a horror movie you're like, ⁓ once you give it up You're gone if you get a hot sexy and right before it was actions happening. Well, you're not gonna make it. That's the Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ my gosh, I love it. Yeah, what a shame. Yeah. Yeah, you're toast. Canasia: Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: ⁓ my gosh. Amazing. Canasia thank you so much for coming on. This was so fun. So glad we finally got you on here for one and that you finished it. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ my gosh, alright. Yeah. Canasia: Yes. Yes, yes it was so fun. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: me too. Amazing. It so fun to have you on you guys. This book is fire. Read it. Read it now. It's so good. And I don't think we can over hype it. ⁓ You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yes. No, you got to read it. It's worth it. Yeah, definitely. And then Python, whenever it comes out, we'll cover again and Canasia will come back. We'll talk about Python. Yes. Yeah. Canasia: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. ⁓ Yes. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Gotch. Absolutely. Yes, I love it. Okay. that's it for today's episode of Cait and Court's Cozy Corner, talking about Daggermouth by H.M. Wolfe. We'll be back with you soon with another book. Bye. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yeah, bye! Canasia: Bye.