Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Tom Haberstroh on Victor Wembanyama arrival, Hornets-Pistons Brawl, NBA's Tanking Disaster | 02.11

Transcript

Tom Haberstroh on Victor Wembanyama arrival, Hornets-Pistons Brawl, NBA's Tanking Disaster | 02.11 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

0:05
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time. A wave original.
0:09
Speaker 1: My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
0:12
Speaker 1: get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
0:16
Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
0:18
Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
0:20
Speaker 1: a hater. It is that time of week where we
0:23
Speaker 1: have a guest join us. Coming to us from Yahoo Sports.
0:25
Speaker 1: Also check out his newsletter, Time to Finder. Tom Haberstroh,
0:29
Speaker 1: what's going on, brother?
0:30
Speaker 2: What's going on, Bomani? Good to be here.
0:32
Speaker 1: Doing all right. I use brother intentionally because it is
0:35
Speaker 1: very interesting when we go into our YouTube comments sometimes,
0:38
Speaker 1: and we have this run of comments that I will
0:41
Speaker 1: read to you if you have not seen. It starts with, okay,
0:45
Speaker 1: I'll say it. Tom Haberstroh looks like a brother with
0:48
Speaker 1: a beard. Brother spelled B-R-O-T-H-A. That is followed by agreed.
0:54
Speaker 1: but a, all caps, very light-skinned brother. Which was followed by, honestly,
1:00
Speaker 1: I had this on mute and was like, oh, this
1:02
Speaker 1: is a new brother. Also spelled B-R-O-T-H-A. Then he said
1:07
Speaker 1: it was Tom and I flummoxed. Parentheses, S-I-C, parentheses. He's not,
1:15
Speaker 1: question mark. We have that. Below that is I honestly
1:18
Speaker 1: thought he was high yellow. And then it caps with
1:23
Speaker 1: Tyrell Haverstraw.
1:25
Speaker 2: Tyrell Haverstraw. Okay. I got to tell you, I don't
1:28
Speaker 2: think there's an Isaiah Hartenstein thing going on in my family,
1:31
Speaker 2: but I have to go dig deep into Ancestry.com, I think.
1:35
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, brother, I was hanging out with you
1:37
Speaker 1: in Gardena, Compton. I can't remember which one. You look
1:39
Speaker 1: right at home, baby. Yeah.
1:42
Speaker 2: Shout out to Trey.
1:43
Speaker 3: Yes.
1:44
Speaker 2: Yeah. That was a good time. I had a great
1:46
Speaker 2: time at that. This is new for me, Bomani. This
1:50
Speaker 2: is new for me, so I appreciate all the love
1:52
Speaker 2: in the chat.
1:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, just letting you know. You know what I'm saying?
1:54
Speaker 1: You've been out here hanging out with a few of
1:55
Speaker 1: us just long enough. You know what I mean? That, like,
2:00
Speaker 1: little overlap, maybe just maybe. First, I forgot to tell
2:04
Speaker 1: you I wanted to ask you about this because we
2:05
Speaker 1: were talking on Wednesday morning, and it just happened. Victor
2:10
Speaker 1: Wimbayama put up 37. in the first half against like
2:15
Speaker 1: a skeleton crew of Lakers because the Lakers were down
2:18
Speaker 1: a lot. At the same time, it was 37 points
2:22
Speaker 1: in the first half. Yeah, yeah.
2:24
Speaker 2: I mean, Bomani, the takeover is here. And I don't
2:27
Speaker 2: know if you caught this. Before the game, Mitch Johnson,
2:30
Speaker 2: the coach, he said, hey, I just want to let
2:32
Speaker 2: you all know, I noticed that he's the only all-star
2:35
Speaker 2: this year. De'Aaron Fox is not an all-star. You don't
2:39
Speaker 2: think Stephon Castle's an all-star?
2:40
Speaker 3: No.
2:41
Speaker 2: I'm inclined to believe that the only reason why you
2:43
Speaker 2: don't believe those are all-stars is because you think Wimby's
2:45
Speaker 2: the MVP. And I was like, oh, Mitch is out here.
2:50
Speaker 2: I was like, that was an amazing line. I was
2:53
Speaker 2: sitting here saying, he's really thought about that. He actually detoured.
2:57
Speaker 2: It wasn't even like a prompted question. It was like, hey,
3:00
Speaker 2: what do you think? I'm the only one all-star. He
3:02
Speaker 2: went there because he wants people to see who Wimby is.
3:05
Speaker 2: He believes Wimby is the most valuable player in the league.
3:07
Speaker 2: And after the game, after he got his ass kicked, J.J.
3:10
Speaker 2: Redick said, He's one of the top five players in
3:12
Speaker 2: the league for a reason. And I'm like, the way
3:14
Speaker 2: he played, he was top five all time the way
3:16
Speaker 2: he played against the Lakers. Like 27 points in the
3:19
Speaker 2: first half, he scored 17 straight points. And it wasn't
3:22
Speaker 2: like classic Shaq where they were throwing it down into
3:26
Speaker 2: the post and no one could stop him. He was
3:29
Speaker 2: getting it in every single way possible. At the three-point line,
3:32
Speaker 2: off the backboard, De'Aaron Fox at one point just kicked
3:34
Speaker 2: it off the backboard in a fast break. It was
3:37
Speaker 2: every single button he pressed on 2K, he finished it.
3:41
Speaker 2: And it was just, it was incredible. And I got
3:45
Speaker 2: to tell you, Bomani, we're looking at Shea Gilgis-Alexander sidelined
3:49
Speaker 2: right now. Luka Doncic is sidelined right now because he's hurt.
3:55
Speaker 2: I'm seeing these prediction markets and whatnot, not even having
3:58
Speaker 2: Victor Wembenyama on the board for MVP. And I am
4:01
Speaker 2: with Mitch Johnson. I think it is very underrated. His case,
4:05
Speaker 2: considering the San Antonio Spurs have a very like Derrick Rose,
4:08
Speaker 2: Chicago Bulls vibe to them this year where they're coming
4:10
Speaker 2: out of nowhere and the young guy is making a statement.
4:14
Speaker 2: And I feel like if Shea Gilgis-Alexander misses additional time,
4:18
Speaker 2: like after the all-star break with this abdominal strain and
4:20
Speaker 2: suddenly OKC and San Antonio are right there neck and neck,
4:24
Speaker 2: we are going to be collectively talking about when be MVP.
4:27
Speaker 2: And it's not just going to be on this show
4:28
Speaker 2: on February 11th.
4:29
Speaker 1: All right, so where I think the Derrick Rose comparison
4:31
Speaker 1: is interesting, it's where I would agree with it, but
4:35
Speaker 1: also where I would disagree, right? The part where I
4:37
Speaker 1: think I would be inclined to disagree is that was
4:41
Speaker 1: a team who's like number two and number three players
4:44
Speaker 1: were Joe Kim, Noah, and Carlos Boozer. And I feel
4:49
Speaker 1: like it's a little different with Castle, right? as being
4:52
Speaker 1: the guy that's next to him. Noah was a very
4:56
Speaker 1: good player, like a very good defensive player, obviously. And
4:58
Speaker 1: Boozer was a very good burly man. But neither of them,
5:04
Speaker 1: I think the Spurs have options next to Victor with
5:07
Speaker 1: Fox also that are a little bit more dynamic, right?
5:10
Speaker 1: And so, but where I do agree and where I
5:13
Speaker 1: think it's interesting is that I talk about this fairly
5:16
Speaker 1: often on this show, that The one statistic that has
5:19
Speaker 1: proven to be the most clear predictor of who will
5:21
Speaker 1: be an MVP is win shares for 48 minutes. It
5:25
Speaker 1: maps out just about every year. And when it doesn't
5:28
Speaker 1: map out, it is behind what I will often call
5:31
Speaker 1: a narrative MVP case. Case in point, Steve Nash in
5:35
Speaker 1: those two years in Phoenix, where you could make the
5:38
Speaker 1: argument that he was at times the second and third
5:40
Speaker 1: best player on his own team. But when he showed up,
5:43
Speaker 1: everything changed. Derrick Rose is a case like that. Russell
5:46
Speaker 1: Westbrook keeping the thunder where they were in 2017 when
5:49
Speaker 1: the win shares for 48 winner that year. was actually
5:53
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant. Like there's a surrounding, there's something surrounding. And
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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that to minimize the case for MVP
6:01
Speaker 1: for these guys, but just to say what takes us
6:03
Speaker 1: there becomes something different. I'm watching a 20, one 22
6:08
Speaker 1: year old dude completely overhauled the culture of an NBA
6:13
Speaker 1: team where you can talk about the five championships. The
6:16
Speaker 1: Spurs have been dog shit for years, right? Like we
6:20
Speaker 1: really downplayed it because we like pop, right? But anybody
6:24
Speaker 1: else would have got fired years ago behind like we
6:27
Speaker 1: were like so when is this going to turn around
6:29
Speaker 1: if they hadn't gotten victor i have no idea when
6:31
Speaker 1: it is that they actually would have turned good they
6:34
Speaker 1: got the the european soccer fan section that he decided
6:38
Speaker 1: that they needed to have and he's out there banging
6:40
Speaker 1: on the drums if you hear the guys on the
6:43
Speaker 1: team talk about him we went from year one where
6:45
Speaker 1: we're like hey why don't you motherfuckers pass the ball
6:47
Speaker 1: to the eight foot tall guy that's open all the
6:49
Speaker 1: time now they talk about him like he's like like
6:54
Speaker 1: We follow you like you are. You are. He went
6:56
Speaker 1: and hung out with the monks. And apparently he picked
6:59
Speaker 1: up on some game. And now everything revolves around him.
7:02
Speaker 1: And we remember what we went from being like, yo,
7:05
Speaker 1: the Thunder could win 75 games, which was a real
7:08
Speaker 1: fair point to, you know, the Spurs might be able
7:12
Speaker 1: to get them. And that to me, that's the MVP
7:15
Speaker 1: case right there.
7:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is the OKC slayer. I mean, they're 4-1
7:20
Speaker 2: against OKC this season. And it's like, man, he hates
7:23
Speaker 2: Chet Holmgren. I love this about Victor Wembenyama. I love it.
7:27
Speaker 2: And we'll talk about it later maybe, but I love
7:30
Speaker 2: when these guys really care. Really care. And they stand
7:34
Speaker 2: on their turf and they're like, I, I'm here for this.
7:36
Speaker 2: And Victor is here for this. And he is, he's
7:39
Speaker 2: out here saying, I think it's good to be greedy
7:42
Speaker 2: after that game last night. Like he said, after getting,
7:45
Speaker 2: you know, 40 points in 26 minutes, the most, here's
7:50
Speaker 2: the stat. The fewest number of minutes to finish with
7:54
Speaker 2: 40 points since Sleepy Floyd, which we all remember.
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Speaker 1: Oh, that game in like 87? Yeah.
8:00
Speaker 2: It's been 40 years since someone put up 40 in 26, right? So, Bomani,
8:06
Speaker 2: after that, people said, you know, what did you think
8:09
Speaker 2: about your performance? He's like, I think it's good to
8:11
Speaker 2: be greedy. Like, I think it's good to be out
8:13
Speaker 2: here and taking everything. when it's in front of me.
8:16
Speaker 2: And he also said after the game, how the all-star
8:19
Speaker 2: game is going to, he's going to try real hard.
8:22
Speaker 2: And you're saying he's a savior for the Spurs. I
8:24
Speaker 2: would take it one step further. He has a chance
8:26
Speaker 2: to save the NBA with the way he's approaching all
8:29
Speaker 2: of these games because he cares. He clearly cares. And
8:33
Speaker 2: this stuff means something. And I think he's, he's, he's
8:36
Speaker 2: pointing out a lot of things about the NBA product
8:39
Speaker 2: that needs improvement in ways that you're not hearing it
8:41
Speaker 2: from the American guys in the same way. And I
8:43
Speaker 2: do think he is the perfect, right now, the perfect
8:47
Speaker 2: candidate to kind of usher in this new era, post-KD, post-Staff, post-LeBron.
8:52
Speaker 2: Because he's new, he's different, he's a product unto himself
8:55
Speaker 2: that my six-year-old daughter can flip on the TV and
8:59
Speaker 2: be like, ooh, who is that guy? And I think
9:01
Speaker 2: he's got this appeal, and he's about all the right things.
9:04
Speaker 2: And if he turns this All-Star game into a competitive game,
9:07
Speaker 2: then all bets are off. All bets are off with
9:10
Speaker 2: Victor Wim and Yama.
9:11
Speaker 1: It's so interesting that you say about the All-Star game,
9:12
Speaker 1: because me and the homie Rod, black guy who tips,
9:15
Speaker 1: we always, we have been looking at him now for
9:18
Speaker 1: like two years, like, oh, we've got the one. I
9:21
Speaker 1: talked to a veteran on the Spurs early in the year,
9:24
Speaker 1: and he was like, he's the one. It's obvious and
9:29
Speaker 1: it's immediately clear to everybody around that he's that dude.
9:33
Speaker 1: But we talked about what if he's the guy that
9:35
Speaker 1: could turn the All-Star game into something? Because the trick
9:37
Speaker 1: bag about it is Dude, him in the All-Star game,
9:41
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how annoying that is going to be
9:44
Speaker 1: for the people who are not on his program where
9:46
Speaker 1: he's decided we're going to make this a real game.
9:48
Speaker 1: And I mean the dudes on the other team, obviously.
9:51
Speaker 1: You can't just be out here pitching my shit in
9:53
Speaker 1: the All-Star game. What are you talking about?
9:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah it's like when you're trying to play pickup
9:57
Speaker 2: with the guys and and one guy is just fouling
10:00
Speaker 2: hard taking charges diving out of bounds like going after
10:04
Speaker 2: you're like yo i'm 40 years old i can't be
10:06
Speaker 2: out here doing this like he's like literally there will
10:08
Speaker 2: be 40 year olds out there in the game and
10:10
Speaker 2: he's gonna be 21 and trying to take over everything
10:13
Speaker 2: going super hard so You know, will people follow the line?
10:16
Speaker 2: I mean, we're not seeing Steph in the game. There's
10:18
Speaker 2: no Shea Gildress Alexander. There's no, we're going to see
10:22
Speaker 2: about Giannis, which is an interesting little dynamic is what
10:25
Speaker 2: if Giannis decides I'm going to go play in the
10:27
Speaker 2: all-star game, but the Bucs won't let me play in
10:29
Speaker 2: regular games. This is going to be kind of a
10:31
Speaker 2: weird injury trodden all-star game where he can come out
10:35
Speaker 2: and make a statement and it's going to be team
10:37
Speaker 2: world versus two teams of American teams. I don't think
10:40
Speaker 2: it's going to work as well as it could because
10:43
Speaker 2: I think team world is going to, embarrassed Team USA.
10:47
Speaker 2: The two teams that are diluted to two different teams.
10:49
Speaker 2: If it was just the best American guys going against
10:52
Speaker 2: the best international guys, I think I would be very
10:56
Speaker 2: into that game. But when you're diluting the American team
10:58
Speaker 2: and then there's a couple guys missing on the international team,
11:01
Speaker 2: I just wish we would get everybody going at once.
11:04
Speaker 1: You know, with the Spurs and the idea of caring,
11:09
Speaker 1: because it's always... It's a trick bag when you start
11:11
Speaker 1: talking about the NBA in these terms because of the
11:14
Speaker 1: historical rhetoric that has surrounded the league forever, right? It's
11:18
Speaker 1: hard to get as far as these guys get without
11:20
Speaker 1: caring in some way. I think what has changed over
11:23
Speaker 1: the years because of the professionalization of youth sports is
11:28
Speaker 1: they care about different stuff, right? It's a league full of,
11:35
Speaker 1: I'm a businessman, right? And they've been this way since
11:37
Speaker 1: they were 14 years old or whatever, right? That that
11:41
Speaker 1: there's an effect that comes from that, you know, that happens.
11:44
Speaker 1: It's not about whether or not guys care. We want
11:48
Speaker 1: crazy people. Right? Like, we don't simply want somebody dedicated
11:53
Speaker 1: to a hard day's work, and I'm going to do
11:55
Speaker 1: my job as it is required. No. This game is
11:59
Speaker 1: powered by crazy people. Maybe not everybody is a crazy person,
12:05
Speaker 1: but we got to have a few crazy people out here,
12:08
Speaker 1: different types of crazy people, right? Victor is the crazy
12:12
Speaker 1: person that you... I'm trying to think the last time
12:15
Speaker 1: that we had a guy that was really this high
12:17
Speaker 1: up in it. Giannis is kind of sort of this
12:19
Speaker 1: variety of crazy person. He just can make it difficult
12:22
Speaker 1: to like him. He's becoming, I don't know how you
12:25
Speaker 1: say Dwight Howard in Greek, but you know, that's where
12:28
Speaker 1: we're going. But if we get an actual factual crazy person,
12:32
Speaker 1: like Michael Jordan, crazy person. Kobe Bryant, crazy person.
12:38
Speaker 2: Wemby is the guy who goes to the park in
12:42
Speaker 2: New York City and just wants to beat up on
12:44
Speaker 2: kids on chess. He said it in the quote last night.
12:48
Speaker 2: He said, I want to win everything. I want to
12:51
Speaker 2: win the All-Star game. I want to win a board game.
12:53
Speaker 2: He's out here saying that he wants to win chutes
12:55
Speaker 2: and ladders and just doesn't matter. He wants to win that.
12:58
Speaker 2: And Steph Curry's the same way. And that's why they're
13:02
Speaker 2: on the Pantheon, right? That's why they're there is because
13:06
Speaker 2: they are unhinged in a way that might be unhealthy
13:09
Speaker 2: in other contexts, but on the basketball court, in order
13:11
Speaker 2: for you to bring it at 21 years old, at
13:14
Speaker 2: that size, doing splits on the sidelines because you're like, hey,
13:19
Speaker 2: whatever Kareem did with yoga and stuff, I want to
13:22
Speaker 2: play until I'm 48 years old. And that's what Victor
13:24
Speaker 2: Webinyama does. And, man, the Spurs, they're over-under this year.
13:29
Speaker 2: Coming into this year, their Vegas over-under win projection was 44.5,
13:33
Speaker 2: and they're going to get that in a couple weeks.
13:36
Speaker 2: They are exceeding expectations way, way earlier than everyone expected.
13:41
Speaker 2: And I think it's because, yeah, they got De'Aaron Fox
13:43
Speaker 2: and Stephon Castle was accelerating. He got a 40-point triple-double
13:46
Speaker 2: the other night. But I think everybody's following Victor Wembenyama.
13:49
Speaker 2: The reason why Rich Paul wanted De'Aaron Fox in San Antonio...
13:53
Speaker 2: was not because of the Riverwalk. It was because of
13:56
Speaker 2: Big Vic. And I think the league needs to put
13:59
Speaker 2: everything behind Victor Weminyam. And I've been saying it here
14:02
Speaker 2: on this program. Like, I agree. I think he is
14:05
Speaker 2: capital T, capital O of the one.
14:07
Speaker 1: How do we get him and Chet to fight? Because
14:10
Speaker 1: one thing I do love also is the other Spurs
14:12
Speaker 1: have come to hate Chet also. Like, his hatred of Chet, which, again,
14:18
Speaker 1: so hilarious. I don't feel like Chet hates him back
14:21
Speaker 1: in the same way. And how do we, like, I
14:24
Speaker 1: think me and Dominique talked about this. It'll look like
14:26
Speaker 1: doll scene versus doll scene, where they just standing on
14:28
Speaker 1: the other side of the screen and just rubber band arms,
14:31
Speaker 1: shooting across. But how do we get this fight to happen?
14:34
Speaker 1: Because you know at least one of the, like, Victor
14:36
Speaker 1: would love to fight Chet.
14:38
Speaker 2: Hey, maybe it's the All-Star game, because Mark Dagnall, I
14:41
Speaker 2: don't think, is here for a fight on the Oklahoma
14:44
Speaker 2: City Thunder. But if it's All-Star game, if his coach
14:46
Speaker 2: isn't there, like, maybe he's actually, Chet's like, all right, well,
14:49
Speaker 2: and the cat's away. the mice will play. Like I
14:52
Speaker 2: think maybe Chet Holmgren in the All-Star game might take
14:53
Speaker 2: it personally. Maybe not this year, but maybe down the line.
14:56
Speaker 2: I think, look, I think it's really interesting where the
15:01
Speaker 2: NBA is right now. And I do think that fighting, right, Bomani,
15:05
Speaker 2: is something that has been lost over the last 10,
15:08
Speaker 2: 15 years in the league. We haven't seen fights all
15:10
Speaker 2: that much. But I actually think that when Victor Weminyama
15:16
Speaker 2: is calling out Chet, like personally and saying, but don't
15:19
Speaker 2: you love to watch ethical hoops and calling out Shea
15:22
Speaker 2: Gildress Alexander? This sort of WWE talking shit to the
15:26
Speaker 2: other team, I think is actually great for the league.
15:29
Speaker 2: And even if it quote unquote crosses a line where
15:31
Speaker 2: there's fights out on the floor, I actually think the
15:34
Speaker 2: signal that it sells to fans is that these players
15:38
Speaker 2: are passionate about this and the jerseys where I'm playing,
15:42
Speaker 2: it actually matters because the turnover in the league has
15:45
Speaker 2: been so much that over the last 10 years, and
15:48
Speaker 2: we can say, hey, player empowerment is great, but it
15:50
Speaker 2: also diluted, I think, of the bonds between the players
15:53
Speaker 2: and the organizations and the teams. And so when Victor
15:57
Speaker 2: Wibinyama is coming out here and saying, like, I hate
16:00
Speaker 2: this team, I think we took for granted how guys
16:05
Speaker 2: staying with one team for their entire careers, while it
16:07
Speaker 2: might have been unfair from a labor standpoint, I think
16:10
Speaker 2: it did build bonds with the city, with the team,
16:13
Speaker 2: with the region. And I do think we've lost that.
16:15
Speaker 2: And I'm hoping that we kind of, I don't know,
16:17
Speaker 2: revitalize that a little bit in the league right now.
16:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the key on that one was staying
16:23
Speaker 1: with the teams is part of it. I feel like
16:27
Speaker 1: player empowerment has been a bit overstated. And in the end,
16:30
Speaker 1: what it has proven to be is, I think, as
16:32
Speaker 1: you put it, is a dilution of trust. between these
16:35
Speaker 1: two entities and they're no longer with the exception of
16:37
Speaker 1: Steph Curry. You don't really see them together in that way.
16:42
Speaker 1: Like it's weird that LeBron James is in year eight
16:47
Speaker 1: of being a Laker and they just kind of know
16:50
Speaker 1: each other, right? Like, like that's like, you know, you know,
16:52
Speaker 1: like that's a, that's a weird thing. And I think
16:54
Speaker 1: you're right in him carrying all of it. All of
16:57
Speaker 1: it's been that he's been demonstrating is important. And the
17:01
Speaker 1: fighting part, I think, these cats been playing for money
17:04
Speaker 1: for so long, right? Like it used to be, you
17:06
Speaker 1: got into it playing for whatever it was. And then
17:08
Speaker 1: one day you play for money, but you are kind
17:10
Speaker 1: of formed by the idea that you play in for
17:13
Speaker 1: the reasons that you play, which is often because you
17:15
Speaker 1: are a little crazy person. You like the competition, whatever
17:18
Speaker 1: it is, maybe because you like to fight, you know,
17:20
Speaker 1: that whole range of things. That's where you are. It
17:23
Speaker 1: is kind of weird that somebody like Victor, who has
17:26
Speaker 1: obviously been groomed for this, still took on the feelings of,
17:31
Speaker 1: I'm in this for other reasons. He's the guy that
17:33
Speaker 1: goes and hangs out with the monks, right? He's different.
17:37
Speaker 1: But I want to make a transition where he brought
17:39
Speaker 1: up fighting because we just had a doozy the other
17:41
Speaker 1: night where the Hornets and the Pistons got into a
17:44
Speaker 1: fight and I would like to point out, number one,
17:48
Speaker 1: that the Pistons appear to have a bunch of those guys,
17:51
Speaker 1: like guys who seem to be ready to fight, which
17:54
Speaker 1: I didn't know we were still making them in these quantities.
17:57
Speaker 1: They seem to have them. And of course, it is
17:58
Speaker 1: thereby perfect that they wind up playing for the Pistons,
18:02
Speaker 1: the franchise that like that's the brand. Right. This is
18:05
Speaker 1: Detroit versus everybody. This is what it is. And it
18:08
Speaker 1: looked like in Charlotte. They were ready to take on everybody,
18:11
Speaker 1: including the homie Big Stew, or Beef Stew. That's what
18:14
Speaker 1: they called him. Beef Stew. Isaiah Stewart. And if you
18:17
Speaker 1: guys aren't familiar with Isaiah Stewart, he tried to fight LeBron.
18:20
Speaker 2: No, not just tried. Tried many times to fight him.
18:23
Speaker 3: Yes, yes.
18:23
Speaker 1: LeBron hit him in the face. And what Isaiah Stewart
18:27
Speaker 1: appears to be is a man of principle. And when
18:30
Speaker 1: certain principles have been violated... He's ready to fight. I
18:34
Speaker 1: also think forgotten about him. As I talk about these
18:37
Speaker 1: guys been playing for money too long, he was like
18:39
Speaker 1: the number two recruit in his class coming out of
18:41
Speaker 1: high school. Like this is a five-star guy. This is
18:44
Speaker 1: not some hard scramble. This is what I had to
18:46
Speaker 1: get here. Nah, he just believes that fighting is a
18:49
Speaker 1: thing that you do sometimes. That one white dude for
18:52
Speaker 1: the Suns called the police on him because apparently Beef
18:55
Speaker 1: Stewart decided it was on site with him every time.
18:57
Speaker 1: And that white man knew the only solution he had
18:59
Speaker 1: was to call the police. They were out there in Charlotte.
19:03
Speaker 1: Was it Jaden Duren that was on the other end?
19:06
Speaker 1: And Musa Diabate.
19:07
Speaker 2: And by the way, Musa Diabate and Jalen Duren have
19:10
Speaker 2: a history together.
19:12
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know that.
19:13
Speaker 2: In high school. Musa was at IMG and Jalen Duren,
19:19
Speaker 2: they were tussling back in high school. So this is
19:22
Speaker 2: a history going way back. So when they're going forehead
19:25
Speaker 2: to forehead, I think there was a lot there. And
19:29
Speaker 2: I didn't realize this until after the fact. So I'm
19:31
Speaker 2: watching this and they they seemed like they were ready
19:34
Speaker 2: to throw down immediately. And that's what, you know, we
19:38
Speaker 2: saw in Jalen Duren. He he yeah, he got his
19:42
Speaker 2: fist ready and he was ready to go like immediately.
19:45
Speaker 2: And Isaiah Stewart, the whole time I'm watching this is
19:50
Speaker 2: I'm like, where's Beef Stew? Where's Beef Stew? And then
19:53
Speaker 2: I heard the Stone Cold Steve Austin. And here he
19:57
Speaker 2: comes running down the ramp and he goes into the
19:59
Speaker 2: ring and he's coming after Miles Bridges. And man, Miles
20:03
Speaker 2: Bridges ducked. And I am, man, it's like watching the
20:06
Speaker 2: mouse at the palace where I, who was it? Jermaine
20:08
Speaker 2: O'Neal slipped.
20:11
Speaker 1: Yep.
20:12
Speaker 2: Thank God he slipped because otherwise that guy would have
20:15
Speaker 2: been six feet under. Right.
20:16
Speaker 1: So Shaq and Brad Miller is my favorite example. Oh,
20:19
Speaker 1: that's a great call. Yeah.
20:22
Speaker 2: Where it's just, you're like, Oh, Brad Miller is alive
20:24
Speaker 2: to this day because it just didn't, it didn't land
20:28
Speaker 2: in a way that it could have, but Isaiah Stewart
20:31
Speaker 2: came in and did you notice he had his ice
20:32
Speaker 2: pack still on.
20:33
Speaker 1: Like his rap? Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
20:36
Speaker 1: Important detail in this, right? By the way, when you
20:39
Speaker 1: turned and went back a little bit, you looked a
20:41
Speaker 1: little bit like Carlos Boozer. I see what the YouTube
20:43
Speaker 1: people were talking about.
20:43
Speaker 2: No, no. I've gotten this a bunch of times.
20:47
Speaker 1: Okay.
20:47
Speaker 2: I thought we were going to go there.
20:49
Speaker 1: That's a touch. Oh, see, you knew what was going on.
20:52
Speaker 1: So anyway, the fight is going on. So if you
20:55
Speaker 1: picture it and the court is set up, the fight
20:58
Speaker 1: is going on. The ball's going right to left, right?
21:01
Speaker 1: And so it's to the left where the fight's going on,
21:03
Speaker 1: and it seemed to be settling down. And then next
21:06
Speaker 1: thing you know, right at the midcourt line, and by
21:09
Speaker 1: the way, as this fight is going on, there's great
21:11
Speaker 1: shots of Duncan Robinson, too old for this shit. He's like,
21:14
Speaker 1: the veterans are like, yeah, I'm out of here. I'm
21:16
Speaker 1: not fighting either. They're not fighting for real, or they
21:19
Speaker 1: are fighting for real, neither of which is my counterpart.
21:22
Speaker 1: So he's walking away. The next thing you know, you
21:24
Speaker 1: just see a flash run across the screen. And it's
21:29
Speaker 1: Isaiah Stewart. If you don't realize this, he's like six, nine.
21:32
Speaker 1: Like he's a big dude. That flash runs across the
21:35
Speaker 1: screen because Miles Bridges squared up with him. And Isaiah Stewart,
21:41
Speaker 1: man of principle. If you put the hands up, that
21:46
Speaker 1: means it's time for us to fight. Now, the NBA
21:50
Speaker 1: is going to have to suspend Beef Stew for quite
21:52
Speaker 1: a while because they have the thing about leaving the bench.
21:55
Speaker 1: An antiquated rule, but I was around when it happened.
21:58
Speaker 1: You know, I get it. Tom, this is my thing.
22:02
Speaker 1: There's nothing that Isaiah Stewart could have done to make
22:05
Speaker 1: himself more popular, at least on Twitter in the NBA,
22:08
Speaker 1: than rushing Miles Bridges, a man who, quite honestly, You
22:13
Speaker 1: can make an argument that there's a place for him
22:14
Speaker 1: in the NBA, right? With some measure of atonement for
22:17
Speaker 1: what he did. And you can look it up and
22:19
Speaker 1: you can see the pictures of what he did to
22:20
Speaker 1: that woman. Like, there's just no... There's no making it okay.
22:25
Speaker 1: It was the fact that the Hornets brought him back.
22:28
Speaker 1: Y'all are already sorry. He's not really that good. Why
22:32
Speaker 1: is he here? Right? Like, you could have very easily
22:34
Speaker 1: made a... you costlessly could have made a very important
22:38
Speaker 1: point by getting that dude out of there, but he's
22:40
Speaker 1: not out of there. And Isaiah Stewart was about to
22:44
Speaker 1: whoop his ass. And if Isaiah Stewart had truly knocked
22:46
Speaker 1: him out, man, they'd have started to go fund me
22:49
Speaker 1: to get him all that money back. He'd have become
22:51
Speaker 1: an NBA legend right there.
22:53
Speaker 2: So the thing about Isaiah Stewart in that moment is
22:57
Speaker 2: you're right to point out that he ran off of
22:59
Speaker 2: the bench to go do this.
23:00
Speaker 1: So he knows, as you said, with, ice packs and
23:03
Speaker 1: things on his knees. He did not even bother to
23:06
Speaker 1: take off his bench stuff.
23:08
Speaker 2: He looked like King Tut running out there, right? The
23:12
Speaker 2: bandages were flying off of him, all theatrical, and he just,
23:17
Speaker 2: it didn't happen the way we thought it was going
23:19
Speaker 2: to happen, the way he was coming down there on
23:20
Speaker 2: like running a 40-yard dash, right? But after the fact,
23:25
Speaker 2: after he went after Miles Bridges, he's walking to the
23:28
Speaker 2: locker room and the cameras catch him. He said, You
23:31
Speaker 2: don't expect me to stay on the bunch. The F
23:34
Speaker 2: I was drafted to Detroit for. This is amazing. This
23:41
Speaker 2: is incredible NBA theater, and he knows what he's doing here,
23:45
Speaker 2: and he knows why he was brought on the team.
23:47
Speaker 2: But if he was on the floor when Jalen Duren
23:51
Speaker 2: got into it with Moussa Diabate, I don't know what's
23:54
Speaker 2: going to happen. This is a whole different story. The
23:57
Speaker 2: Miles Bridges thing you brought up, Once Jaron Jackson Jr.
24:01
Speaker 2: got traded at the deadline, once Trey Young got traded
24:04
Speaker 2: about a month ago, Luka Doncic got traded last year.
24:08
Speaker 2: There's only two guys in that draft class that have
24:11
Speaker 2: remained with their team, and it's Mitchell Robinson of the
24:15
Speaker 2: New York Knicks, and it's Miles Bridges. And to your point,
24:19
Speaker 2: it is very stunning that it's Miles Bridges is the
24:22
Speaker 2: only starter, really, that has stayed with his team over
24:25
Speaker 2: the last eight years. And I do think Miles Bridges,
24:28
Speaker 2: after the practice the other day, he was asked about
24:31
Speaker 2: the fight and he said, no one comes into our
24:33
Speaker 2: arena and tries to punk us like that. And I'm
24:37
Speaker 2: sitting there and I'm saying, how many guys are with
24:40
Speaker 2: their team since 2018? To say something like our arena.
24:44
Speaker 2: And Miles Bridges is one of the only vets. There's
24:47
Speaker 2: 14 vets in the league that have stayed with their
24:50
Speaker 2: team since 2018. 11 of them are all-stars. We're sorry,
24:53
Speaker 2: 10 of them are all-star players. And four of them
24:56
Speaker 2: are like Miles Bridges, where they're just like veteran guys
24:58
Speaker 2: who have stuck around over the years. And so it
25:01
Speaker 2: is kind of an illustration of the NBA right now
25:04
Speaker 2: that when these guys squared up, these were guys who
25:07
Speaker 2: have been with this team their entire careers, and they
25:10
Speaker 2: were ready to go. And I think Jalen Dern is
25:13
Speaker 2: going to get suspended. Miles Bridges is going to get suspended.
25:15
Speaker 2: Musa Diabate is going to get suspended. But Isaiah Stewart, man,
25:20
Speaker 2: who was it? It was a few years back where...
25:24
Speaker 2: it was a suspension and some of the teammates were like,
25:27
Speaker 2: we'll pay for your suspension. Like we'll, we'll pay you
25:29
Speaker 2: whatever money you lost. And I think, I think Cade
25:31
Speaker 2: Cunningham and the rest of them, the front office would
25:34
Speaker 2: be wise to make sure that he's taken care of
25:36
Speaker 2: in the end.
25:36
Speaker 1: Tom, he is a $ 15 million a year goon.
25:41
Speaker 2: He's more than that though. I don't want to sell short.
25:43
Speaker 1: I know that.
25:44
Speaker 2: I know that.
25:45
Speaker 1: But at the same time, He's here to goon. And look,
25:49
Speaker 1: I don't want to minimize what it is to goon.
25:52
Speaker 1: You understand what I'm saying? I hope people don't hear
25:57
Speaker 1: that and think that I'm saying that he's not a
25:59
Speaker 1: good basketball player or a talented basketball player. But the
26:02
Speaker 1: fact that he's like, why do you think I'm here?
26:05
Speaker 1: A significant part of why I'm here is because I'm
26:09
Speaker 1: out here to goon. And we ain't got that many
26:11
Speaker 1: goons left, right? Too many guys in this league are
26:14
Speaker 1: good at basketball. I understand that the nerds can't understand
26:17
Speaker 1: the logic behind that, but the truth is having a
26:20
Speaker 1: goon out here, it's better for the aesthetic, it's better
26:23
Speaker 1: for the product. They got both things going on at once.
26:25
Speaker 1: He a goon and he shoots 76% from the free
26:28
Speaker 1: throw line. You understand what I'm saying? He's here to
26:33
Speaker 1: do the thing and basketball is better as a result.
26:36
Speaker 2: And Bomani, I'm not just saying this because I went
26:40
Speaker 2: to Wake Forest, but everything changed after the Indiana Pacers
26:44
Speaker 2: signed James Johnson.
26:45
Speaker 1: Everything changed.
26:46
Speaker 2: Tyrese Halliburton, they got in this little tussle with Giannis Antetokounmpo.
26:50
Speaker 2: And the next day, Kevin Pritchard and Chad Buchanan, the
26:54
Speaker 2: GMs there in Indiana, signed James Johnson to the team.
26:58
Speaker 2: And he didn't play a single minute the rest of
26:59
Speaker 2: the year. But everything changed after they signed James Johnson.
27:03
Speaker 2: And that's why he was on the finals roster. at
27:05
Speaker 2: the end of the year last year, because they need
27:08
Speaker 2: a guy like that to just kind of, you know,
27:10
Speaker 2: be there, right. And just be there and let them know.
27:13
Speaker 2: So I think, I think that the fight is interesting. Um,
27:17
Speaker 2: the fact that the Hornets are, we're on a nine
27:19
Speaker 2: game win streak. It's, it's weird in this town in
27:23
Speaker 2: Charlotte to, to feel that the kind of vibes around
27:25
Speaker 2: the city after they went to the, the, after the
27:28
Speaker 2: Panthers went to the playoffs. It's a weird place to
27:31
Speaker 2: be right now, Bomani and Charlotte, but I think it's
27:33
Speaker 2: good for the NBA. I think the NBA needs these
27:36
Speaker 2: kinds of rivalries and this physicality. Cause I do think
27:39
Speaker 2: NBA fans secretly crave, like, you know how human beings
27:42
Speaker 2: secretly like cheese. Cause there's a little bit of funk
27:45
Speaker 2: in it. Like there's, there's something about the decaying this, that,
27:49
Speaker 2: that draws people to funky cheese, the blue cheese out there.
27:53
Speaker 2: I do think that in a weird way, NBA fans
27:55
Speaker 2: are craving for these games to matter or the actual fights,
27:59
Speaker 2: the rivalries to happen again, just because it's a signal
28:02
Speaker 2: to the audience that they're passionate about this and they
28:05
Speaker 2: do care about this game.
28:06
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Speaker 1: Tom Haverstrow. All right. NBA fans, I don't know you
30:45
Speaker 1: if I have really talked about this, just generally or
30:49
Speaker 1: in specific terms, but the idea of tanking nauseates me.
30:55
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I'm not stupid about it, right?
30:59
Speaker 1: And so when I say that, I don't think what
31:02
Speaker 1: the Thunder did after trading Russell Westbrook and Paul George
31:07
Speaker 1: is the same thing as what is going on in
31:09
Speaker 1: Utah right now, for example. I feel like what Presti
31:13
Speaker 1: did was really not terribly different than what happened in
31:17
Speaker 1: the early part of his tenure, started with Kevin Durant
31:19
Speaker 1: and Westbrook was when we have a young team, we're
31:21
Speaker 1: going to play the young guys and we're going to
31:24
Speaker 1: see what we can do with them. And but we're
31:26
Speaker 1: going to try to win pretty soon. And I feel
31:28
Speaker 1: like the Thunder really only had one year where they
31:31
Speaker 1: were just flat out awful. The next year they were
31:33
Speaker 1: like play in. And then the year after that, I
31:35
Speaker 1: want to say they have the number one seed in
31:36
Speaker 1: the West.
31:37
Speaker 3: Right.
31:37
Speaker 1: So I think there's a difference between we're going to
31:40
Speaker 1: go young and play these guys versus we're just flatly
31:44
Speaker 1: trying to lose. Like that's the point. And if it
31:46
Speaker 1: looks like we're going to win, we'll do what happened
31:49
Speaker 1: the other night with Utah, where they just flat out
31:53
Speaker 1: set all their best players in the fourth quarter of
31:55
Speaker 1: the game because they were going to win and they
31:57
Speaker 1: didn't want to do that. Yeah.
31:59
Speaker 2: It's a weird place, right? It's a weird place where
32:01
Speaker 2: we're at in the league, where Larry Markkinen, all-star starter
32:05
Speaker 2: a couple years back, he's averaging 26, 27 points a game.
32:09
Speaker 2: They trade for Jaron Jackson Jr., all-star defensive player of
32:12
Speaker 2: the year. And I'm sitting there at the trade down,
32:14
Speaker 2: and we did the Kevin O'Connor show in New York
32:18
Speaker 2: last week on Thursday. And I'm just sitting here, I'm like,
32:22
Speaker 2: what are they going to plan on doing with Jaron
32:24
Speaker 2: Jackson Jr.? Because we all know what time it is.
32:26
Speaker 2: AJ DeBonsa at BYU is in this draft, and they
32:31
Speaker 2: have a top eight protected pick. Why are they trading
32:34
Speaker 2: for Jaron Jackson Jr.? It didn't make any sense to me,
32:38
Speaker 2: and I was curious to see if he was going
32:40
Speaker 2: to have turf toe or Achilles tendonitis, something that was
32:45
Speaker 2: going to knock him out for the rest of the year.
32:48
Speaker 2: But they decide to play him. And then they sat
32:51
Speaker 2: him up seven against the Orlando Magic. They just sat
32:55
Speaker 2: him in the fourth quarter, sat Lowry Markin in the
32:57
Speaker 2: fourth quarter. And then against the Miami Heat the other night,
33:00
Speaker 2: same exact story. They sat Lowry Markin in and sat
33:04
Speaker 2: Jaron Jackson Jr. And they were playing great, great basketball together.
33:09
Speaker 2: A little too great. So Will Hardy, the longtime coach
33:12
Speaker 2: there in Utah, said, all right, pulling you. And he
33:15
Speaker 2: did the same thing with Keontae George the other night.
33:17
Speaker 2: And They lost the first game. They did not lose
33:20
Speaker 2: the second game. Miami actually lost that game. And Bam Adebayo,
33:24
Speaker 2: after the game, said maybe the saddest quote I have
33:26
Speaker 2: ever seen in the NBA. He said, we've got to
33:29
Speaker 2: figure out a way to win against teams trying to lose.
33:33
Speaker 2: And I'm like, man, that has got to be... a
33:36
Speaker 2: really sad place to be in the NBA where you're
33:38
Speaker 2: playing the Utah Jazz. You know that they're trying to
33:40
Speaker 2: lose and you still lose the game. You can't beat
33:43
Speaker 2: that team. And I want to educate the fans a
33:46
Speaker 2: little bit on this, on the history of tanking, because
33:48
Speaker 2: last year people weren't talking about this and it blew
33:52
Speaker 2: my mind. Bomani, last year, the Toronto Raptors, and I
33:55
Speaker 2: think this is part of the puzzle, why no one
33:57
Speaker 2: seems to care or doesn't realize that this was happening
34:00
Speaker 2: last year. The Toronto Raptors had Scottie Barnes averaging 25
34:04
Speaker 2: and five. And they were arresting him in the clutch
34:08
Speaker 2: situations last year. There was like six straight games where
34:11
Speaker 2: they were in winning time and they said, Scotty, you
34:13
Speaker 2: are sitting on the bench because we got Cooper Flagg
34:16
Speaker 2: in this upcoming draft. And they tried to tank those games.
34:19
Speaker 2: It did not work for them. They ended up with
34:20
Speaker 2: like the ninth pick in the draft, but the Dallas
34:23
Speaker 2: Mavericks went from 10 to one and they got Cooper Flagg.
34:26
Speaker 2: And after that, I was expecting, oh, like they didn't
34:29
Speaker 2: get fined. The Toronto Raptors didn't get fined for sitting
34:32
Speaker 2: their best player in crunch time and resting RJ Barrett.
34:35
Speaker 2: Emanuel quickly, Yaka Pirtle, their best players sitting them random nights. Okay,
34:41
Speaker 2: there's going to be a copycat somewhere in the league
34:43
Speaker 2: next year, and it's Danny Ainge. Danny Ainge is out
34:46
Speaker 2: here sitting there and watching how that went last year
34:49
Speaker 2: with no fines from the NBA. They said, it's okay.
34:51
Speaker 2: By the rules, if you play a guy, we're not
34:54
Speaker 2: going to step in and say how many minutes you
34:56
Speaker 2: have to play that guy. And the Utah Jazz are
34:59
Speaker 2: daring the league office to do something about it because
35:03
Speaker 2: they didn't do it about it for the Toronto Raptors
35:05
Speaker 2: last year. But there's one big variable that's different, Bomani.
35:09
Speaker 2: The big variable that's different between last year and this
35:11
Speaker 2: year is the gambling scandals. And so Adam Silver, after
35:15
Speaker 2: the gambling scandals, and a lot of those gambling scandals
35:18
Speaker 2: happened because of tanking, guys being rested in games in
35:22
Speaker 2: which the public did not know they were going to
35:24
Speaker 2: be rested in those games. And before the public knew
35:28
Speaker 2: about it, there was a gap of time that the
35:30
Speaker 2: gamblers could have that inside information and allegedly go bet
35:33
Speaker 2: those games in the millions of the dollars, right? That
35:37
Speaker 2: happened a few months ago. And so I'm curious to
35:40
Speaker 2: see if the league office finds some ground in order
35:45
Speaker 2: to penalize what the Utah Jazz are doing, because otherwise
35:49
Speaker 2: it's open season. I think a lot of teams are
35:51
Speaker 2: going to be going the same route if they haven't already.
35:53
Speaker 1: And keep in mind, it's one thing when teams are
35:56
Speaker 1: doing this in March or April. We're not even at
36:00
Speaker 1: the all-star break. You can't even fucking pretend through President's Day.
36:05
Speaker 1: Like we can't even go that, like we can't even go,
36:07
Speaker 1: it is, it goes back to what we talked about.
36:11
Speaker 1: How is anybody else supposed to care? And these guys
36:14
Speaker 1: don't care. Like this, these games are not popular because
36:18
Speaker 1: people can gamble on them. These games are not popular
36:22
Speaker 1: because people want to see the private equity inspired jockeying
36:27
Speaker 1: about getting the pick, right? The other thing that gets
36:29
Speaker 1: me is that they have tinkered with the lottery odds
36:33
Speaker 1: so much. that the likelihood of you getting the number
36:36
Speaker 1: one pick from doing this is not that high. Like
36:38
Speaker 1: we've seen it over and over again. And oh, by
36:40
Speaker 1: the way, Drafts are deeper than ever, and you can
36:43
Speaker 1: get good players later than you have at previous points.
36:47
Speaker 1: Go look at who the superstars in the league are,
36:49
Speaker 1: Victor Wimbanyama notwithstanding, and go look at where they were drafted.
36:53
Speaker 1: Cooper Flagg obviously looks like he's going in that direction.
36:56
Speaker 2: Your point is backed up statistically is that the best
37:01
Speaker 2: players in the league are not as correlated with their
37:03
Speaker 2: draft position. For sure.
37:05
Speaker 1: It's not what it was before. However, this draft is different.
37:09
Speaker 1: Because people think it's a bunch of them in there.
37:12
Speaker 1: And what you want to do is just kind of
37:14
Speaker 1: land in that top three. And if you land in
37:17
Speaker 1: the top three, it'll work out okay for you. I
37:20
Speaker 1: would simply like to point out that the last time
37:22
Speaker 1: we talked like that was 2014. And we were so
37:25
Speaker 1: sure there were three superstars in that draft. And those
37:28
Speaker 1: three superstars were Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, and Joel Embiid.
37:32
Speaker 1: One of them became a superstar that you ultimately could
37:35
Speaker 1: not trust at the end. And the other two, it
37:37
Speaker 1: didn't go that way.
37:39
Speaker 2: Bomani, I think what is most interesting to me about
37:42
Speaker 2: the flattening of the odds is we're both econ guys, right?
37:46
Speaker 2: So if you flatten the odds, the slope of that
37:50
Speaker 2: curve actually is pretty high around 8, 9, and 10 pick.
37:56
Speaker 2: Why are the Milwaukee Bucks trying to tank these games
37:59
Speaker 2: the rest of the year and Giannis isn't having that?
38:01
Speaker 2: Because they know if we finish in like the 7, 8,
38:04
Speaker 2: and 9, we have a good shot at A.J. DeBonsa.
38:07
Speaker 2: We have a good shot of Darren Peterson. We have
38:10
Speaker 2: a solid shot at getting those guys. 10 years ago,
38:14
Speaker 2: they'd have no shot being at the 7, 8, 9
38:17
Speaker 2: slot getting one of those picks. But now people are
38:20
Speaker 2: talking about the number one pick odds. I'm talking about
38:23
Speaker 2: the number 10 pick odds. I'm talking about those got,
38:27
Speaker 2: or in the draft lottery, the number 10 slot, the
38:29
Speaker 2: number nine slot, the number eight slot, they actually have
38:31
Speaker 2: real chances at getting a franchise guy. So why are
38:35
Speaker 2: these teams, Utah, Memphis, Dallas, Milwaukee, all pulling that ripcord?
38:40
Speaker 1: The Clippers!
38:41
Speaker 2: We're 16-3, Bomani, and they just traded James Harden and
38:45
Speaker 2: Avicii Zubats because I think part of it is, A,
38:49
Speaker 2: we got to figure out a way to tank this
38:51
Speaker 2: year or next year. I know the pick this year
38:52
Speaker 2: is going to OKC, but they're trying to figure out, hey,
38:55
Speaker 2: we got to bottom out because some of these draft
38:58
Speaker 2: years we're going to have here, we've got everything lined
39:01
Speaker 2: up with James Harden and Kawhi Leonard. We got to
39:04
Speaker 2: reset this. I think teams are looking at this draft
39:08
Speaker 2: like it is all time good. But I think what's
39:10
Speaker 2: different is that slope of that curve means that the
39:14
Speaker 2: number six slot, Utah is currently in the number six slot.
39:18
Speaker 2: The number seven slot, the eight and nine are all
39:22
Speaker 2: going to have a shot at getting one of those
39:24
Speaker 2: top four guys or top five guys, depending on what
39:26
Speaker 2: you look at. And so what the flattening of the
39:29
Speaker 2: odds did, it meant that it wasn't a race to
39:32
Speaker 2: the bottom. It was just a larger race. More people
39:36
Speaker 2: are being invited to the race. And that's what I
39:38
Speaker 2: think the Adam Silver league office did not. There's this
39:42
Speaker 2: thing called unintended consequences, negative externalities. By flattening the odds,
39:48
Speaker 2: They actually didn't solve tanking. They just created more tankers.
39:51
Speaker 1: They redirected it.
39:53
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
39:54
Speaker 1: See, this is why I fuck with you, because you
39:56
Speaker 1: use these numbers in ways that are actually helpful, right? Like,
40:01
Speaker 1: the understanding of this, that was like thoroughly incredible explanation
40:05
Speaker 1: of the whole situation. I'm sorry. I'm just here to salute. Yeah, man.
40:09
Speaker 2: Hey, the econ degree at Wake Forest, it didn't get
40:12
Speaker 2: me into finance. It didn't get me onto Wall.
40:13
Speaker 1: Street, but sometimes- It got you a much happier life.
40:17
Speaker 2: That's- Man, all the time, my buddies who are, you know,
40:21
Speaker 2: out as iBankers or whatnot, you know, they reach out
40:25
Speaker 2: to me from time. Even when I was making nothing
40:27
Speaker 2: at ESPN as an intern, they were like, I would
40:30
Speaker 2: trade whatever you're doing in a second. I mean, I'm like,
40:34
Speaker 2: I'm sitting here, you're making six figures right out of
40:36
Speaker 2: college and you're saying you would trade spots. But it is, man,
40:40
Speaker 2: I'm sitting here talking to you about Victor Wimbanyama, 21
40:42
Speaker 2: years old, and Isaiah Stewart beefing with Miles Bridges. And
40:46
Speaker 2: we get paid for this. So I.
40:49
Speaker 1: And still using the ECOT.
40:50
Speaker 2: That's right. And so I'm still using it with the
40:52
Speaker 2: draft lottery. And I think you're right. You're not hating
40:56
Speaker 2: on Utah in the sense that it's not smart that
40:59
Speaker 2: they're doing this. I think the math is the math.
41:03
Speaker 2: And last year we saw Cooper flag get drafted by
41:06
Speaker 2: the Dallas Mavericks with a 10th best odds. We saw
41:08
Speaker 2: in the year before that Zachary Reese's Shay, who I
41:12
Speaker 2: was out on from the start. He actually said, number
41:15
Speaker 2: one pick goes to the ninth best odds in the
41:18
Speaker 2: draft lottery. So I think GMs were already looking at
41:21
Speaker 2: the odds, flattening out and saying like, Hey, all we
41:23
Speaker 2: need to do is get in that six to nine range.
41:25
Speaker 2: We'll be good. And now after two years in a row,
41:29
Speaker 2: that kind of recency bias, even if it is illogical
41:32
Speaker 2: and irrational, I think owners and GMs are seeing Cooper
41:36
Speaker 2: flag and how he washed away the whole Luka Doncic travesty,
41:40
Speaker 2: washing that away and saying like, Hey, I love Giannis,
41:43
Speaker 2: but can we just get a shot at getting A.J.
41:46
Speaker 2: DeBonsa or Cam Boozer or Darren Peterson? And I think
41:48
Speaker 2: that's the mentality right now for the next two plus months.
41:54
Speaker 1: There's only one kind of person who tries to lose.
42:00
Speaker 1: It's called losers. And that is the NBA is, and
42:05
Speaker 1: I believe, and I think this is the other part
42:07
Speaker 1: of why it's a big part of why it's so
42:09
Speaker 1: problematic that I don't think we discuss enough, which is
42:12
Speaker 1: you create a bunch of players who are losers by
42:15
Speaker 1: doing this too. Like you have these guys and you
42:17
Speaker 1: put them in these environments where you have guys who
42:19
Speaker 1: for you, like if you play for Utah, every year
42:21
Speaker 1: we hear they going to trade Walker Kessler, right? Walker
42:24
Speaker 1: Kessler has just been, has spent basically his NBA career
42:28
Speaker 1: around a bunch of people trying to lose the whole way.
42:31
Speaker 1: You're not going to tell me that doesn't have consequences.
42:34
Speaker 2: You're just not.
42:35
Speaker 1: There's, there's, there's like, this is, It is an existential
42:38
Speaker 1: threat to the league because it's a threat to the
42:40
Speaker 1: purpose of the league and the idea that, well, hey,
42:44
Speaker 1: there's a logic behind it. I think it fundamentally misunderstands
42:49
Speaker 1: why we do this in the first place. What is
42:51
Speaker 1: important about this and why people are into it. And
42:54
Speaker 1: maybe like you, a team like Utah, you feel like
42:57
Speaker 1: you can do this. Cause y'all are, I mean, they
42:58
Speaker 1: got a hockey team now, but you kind of the
43:00
Speaker 1: only game in town. And so when you get good,
43:02
Speaker 1: you think the people are going to show back up.
43:04
Speaker 1: Cause understand the Utah jazz were good for basically 25
43:07
Speaker 1: straight years. Like they, I mean, they were that whole
43:10
Speaker 1: Malone era, even the years after that, they didn't put
43:12
Speaker 1: a lot of bad product out there. Um, I just
43:16
Speaker 1: don't think that you can just consistently put out all this,
43:18
Speaker 1: like put out terrible product and have a terrible environment ultimately.
43:22
Speaker 1: And it doesn't have long-term effects on your team.
43:24
Speaker 3: Yeah.
43:25
Speaker 2: And I think we, at a certain point, we did
43:28
Speaker 2: not have a team that tanked to win the NBA championship,
43:31
Speaker 2: but then we saw Oklahoma city thunder and you're right.
43:34
Speaker 2: It wasn't a prolonged period. It was two years when
43:36
Speaker 2: they were in the twenties, their wins in the twenties.
43:38
Speaker 1: Right.
43:39
Speaker 2: There were two years that they were bad, bad, bad,
43:41
Speaker 2: but it wasn't six years.
43:43
Speaker 1: Right.
43:43
Speaker 3: Right.
43:44
Speaker 2: It wasn't the process. It wasn't Utah right now. So
43:47
Speaker 2: they would be the first. They would be the first
43:49
Speaker 2: to have prolonged three plus years of being in the basement.
43:53
Speaker 2: And I also, it's a weird place in the NBA
43:56
Speaker 2: because the incentive structure is such that you're actually the
44:00
Speaker 2: carrot for these bad teams is to continue to be
44:03
Speaker 2: bad because you have a shot at Cooper Flagg or
44:05
Speaker 2: a shot at A.J. DeBonsa. what it was really weird
44:09
Speaker 2: to me is seeing what the Washington wizards did at
44:12
Speaker 2: the trade deadline, which is acquire Trey young and Anthony Davis,
44:16
Speaker 2: because it felt like to me that they're trying to
44:18
Speaker 2: get back to being on that hamster wheel of mediocrity
44:21
Speaker 2: of in, in the wizards being always 42 wins. Like
44:24
Speaker 2: the goal is to win 42 games to 42 games.
44:27
Speaker 2: I did not understand that. Like, The Wizards have been
44:31
Speaker 2: bad for a while, but they actually have never won
44:33
Speaker 2: 50 games in the last 50 years.
44:35
Speaker 1: In my life. I say this every year. I'm now
44:39
Speaker 1: 45 years old, and the Wizards haven't won 50 games
44:43
Speaker 1: in my life.
44:45
Speaker 2: And so you think Trey Young and Anthony Davis are
44:48
Speaker 2: going to do that for you? I'll give you a
44:49
Speaker 2: stat here. Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving played one game together.
44:54
Speaker 2: Chris Tapp's Porzingis. Everyone was talking about the Atlanta Hawks
44:57
Speaker 2: coming into this year and how they were a sneaky
44:59
Speaker 2: team to win the East. Trey Young and Chris Tapps-Porzingis
45:02
Speaker 2: played three games together. You're telling me that the Wizards
45:05
Speaker 2: are going to make a run next year? Man, I'm out.
45:09
Speaker 2: And Anthony Davis, he hasn't reported or he hasn't played.
45:12
Speaker 2: Seems like he's going to be out for the year.
45:13
Speaker 2: There's a lot of back and forth about whether he's
45:15
Speaker 2: going to be out for the year. But I'm also
45:17
Speaker 2: here like... I also don't like that. I don't like
45:20
Speaker 2: that they're trying to chase 42 wins with Trey Young
45:23
Speaker 2: and Anthony Davis. I'm not buying that either. So if
45:26
Speaker 2: you're asking me, would I rather be a Jazz fan? Well,
45:29
Speaker 2: I guess they did get Jaron Jackson Jr.
45:30
Speaker 1: Too.
45:31
Speaker 2: If you're asking me, would I rather be, let's say,
45:34
Speaker 2: the Brooklyn Nets, right? Or would I rather be the
45:37
Speaker 2: Washington Wizards that said, all right, we're actually going to
45:39
Speaker 2: try to win next year? I don't feel great about
45:42
Speaker 2: what the Washington Wizards did either. And so there's 10
45:44
Speaker 2: teams that are in the tank trying to lose this year.
45:47
Speaker 2: But I also don't really love the idea of trying
45:49
Speaker 2: to go get guys to get back to the middle.
45:53
Speaker 2: I just don't see that Jaron Jackson Jr. is going
45:55
Speaker 2: to be the difference between Utah Jazz being relevant and irrelevant.
45:59
Speaker 2: I still think they're going to be fairly irrelevant next year.
46:01
Speaker 1: By the way, shout out to you, Jaron Jackson. I
46:03
Speaker 1: don't know what you did to those people in Memphis.
46:05
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine anything more jarring culturally. Maybe Atlanta,
46:08
Speaker 1: but going from there to going to Utah, I just can't.
46:12
Speaker 1: He going to be begging you and be a young
46:13
Speaker 1: boy to let him come over there and hang out
46:16
Speaker 1: with him at that compound. This is how I feel
46:20
Speaker 1: about the middle. And I think that sometimes perhaps we
46:24
Speaker 1: can stand to divorce ourselves a little bit from the
46:26
Speaker 1: bottom line. Okay. And I mean this. If you're a
46:31
Speaker 1: Wizards fan, you're telling me that you wouldn't mind going
46:35
Speaker 1: back to what it was like when Gilbert was there, right?
46:39
Speaker 1: You're telling me you wouldn't mind going back to what
46:41
Speaker 1: it was like when John and Brad were there? Because
46:44
Speaker 1: at the very least, you guys were having a good time.
46:47
Speaker 1: It was fun. You might not have been a legitimate
46:52
Speaker 1: championship contender. Remember they had a little rivalry with LeBron? right?
46:56
Speaker 1: They had, you know, playoffs.
46:57
Speaker 2: They were those guys. They were, they were born and
46:59
Speaker 2: bred in, in Washington, right? They were drafted by the wizards.
47:03
Speaker 2: Like what they're doing now. It just, I don't know, man.
47:06
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, but like, How about put out a
47:09
Speaker 1: fun team? We'll work it out. Give people something to enjoy.
47:13
Speaker 1: Because the thing about, I understand the idea everybody wants
47:16
Speaker 1: to win a championship, obviously. The idea that it's a
47:19
Speaker 1: goal to win, yeah, I get that. But I also
47:22
Speaker 1: think that fundamentally what people really get attached to about
47:24
Speaker 1: teams is not just strictly about the winning part. And
47:27
Speaker 1: so when you sacrifice all this time with this intention
47:30
Speaker 1: of losing, you sacrifice goodwill and you sacrifice kind of
47:33
Speaker 1: a warmth. that's around the team that you've got. So
47:36
Speaker 1: like right now, Hornets fans seem very happy with this
47:39
Speaker 1: team that is not going to win a championship. And sure,
47:42
Speaker 1: they would like that team to win a championship. But
47:44
Speaker 1: I think people by and large just want a pretty
47:47
Speaker 1: good team that they could like. Memphis, grit and grind Memphis.
47:50
Speaker 1: That's what that was. Now, granted, they had a year,
47:52
Speaker 1: they went to the conference finals and that's going to
47:54
Speaker 1: power those people for a long time. They have four
47:56
Speaker 1: players whose jerseys I think they'll ultimately retire. And I
47:59
Speaker 1: noticed some people would be like, well, you can't retire
48:01
Speaker 1: their jerseys. They didn't win nothing. They won the hearts
48:03
Speaker 1: and minds of the people. And I do think that,
48:06
Speaker 1: you know, there's something to that. And so it's easy
48:09
Speaker 1: and all the numbers to tell everybody all the other stuff,
48:11
Speaker 1: but I'm looking at Ainge and I'm like, Go look
48:13
Speaker 1: up at the rafters in Utah, the names that are
48:15
Speaker 1: up there. It's like Daryl Griffith, it's Adrian Dantley, it's
48:18
Speaker 1: Mark Eaton, it's Jeff Hornet. Like those are names that
48:21
Speaker 1: are actually there. Now granted, Adrian Dantley was an incredible player.
48:25
Speaker 1: Daryl Griffith, you know, but Adrian Dantley wouldn't win no
48:28
Speaker 1: championships in Utah, but that's what this is. You know
48:33
Speaker 1: what I mean? And so that's where I think Silver
48:35
Speaker 1: also needs to look around and realize, man, you brought
48:37
Speaker 1: all these quant people in here They only think in
48:41
Speaker 1: ways that are often counter to why people like your league.
48:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's, I think, was it last night
48:49
Speaker 2: when they were advertising the Spurs and Lakers game? It
48:53
Speaker 2: was Victor Wembanyama's face and on the other side was
48:55
Speaker 2: Rui Achimura. And I'm like, man, that's tough sell for
49:00
Speaker 2: the NBA is like, And next time the Utah Jazz
49:03
Speaker 2: are on national TV, and Oklahoma City, by the way,
49:05
Speaker 2: is being investigated by the league right now because they
49:08
Speaker 2: had a bunch of guys out on national TV last week.
49:11
Speaker 2: I feel like this happens all around the league. And
49:14
Speaker 2: we're going to have, let's see, if 10 teams are
49:16
Speaker 2: trying to lose and there's 30 games left, you do
49:19
Speaker 2: the math on it. many games left in the season
49:21
Speaker 2: are going to be compromised because the teams aren't trying
49:24
Speaker 2: to win every game so i mean if you want
49:27
Speaker 2: to go radical we don't have to do that i
49:29
Speaker 2: think we might have talked about this is getting rid
49:30
Speaker 2: of the draft all together is the only way you're
49:32
Speaker 2: going to set all about it yeah all The only
49:36
Speaker 2: way we can all talk all day. We can talk
49:38
Speaker 2: to we're blue in the face about what if we
49:40
Speaker 2: get rid of pick protections? And what if we lock
49:43
Speaker 2: in the lottery odds on March 1st? None of that's
49:45
Speaker 2: going to change things.
49:46
Speaker 1: None of that.
49:46
Speaker 2: The only thing that's going to actually fundamentally change the
49:49
Speaker 2: way teams operate and not try to lose is if
49:52
Speaker 2: you take the draft all together. And now you've got
49:53
Speaker 2: to sign these guys out of college.
49:56
Speaker 1: You know, I did some for game theory about doing
49:58
Speaker 1: in the NFL draft. I'm about all of it. First
50:00
Speaker 1: of all, it's amazing how wedded the average fan is
50:03
Speaker 1: to the idea of the draft. And like, so for example, Remember,
50:07
Speaker 1: and I'm not trying to get into a political argument
50:08
Speaker 1: with nobody here, but you remember when people was talking
50:11
Speaker 1: about defund the police and they talk about stuff like
50:14
Speaker 1: abolishing the prisons? I admit to you, I feel where
50:17
Speaker 1: you're coming from, but I don't have a good enough imagination.
50:21
Speaker 1: figure out what what what we gonna do it is
50:24
Speaker 1: right like i don't i'm willing you can sell me
50:27
Speaker 1: on it because i think you're coming from a good
50:29
Speaker 1: place but i can't imagine what you're trying to get
50:32
Speaker 1: me to right now i'm just not that good at
50:34
Speaker 1: it people cannot imagine a world without a draft when
50:38
Speaker 1: it's so simple right like it's not it's i mean
50:41
Speaker 1: there are ways that you could come up with things
50:43
Speaker 1: like like i say if you want to if you
50:45
Speaker 1: want to try to make it about competitive redistribution then
50:48
Speaker 1: give people the salary allotments. And then like the worst
50:52
Speaker 1: team gets more or whatever it is. And then go
50:54
Speaker 1: for it. We could, We could call it National Signing Day,
50:58
Speaker 1: and everybody announces where they're going, and we figure it out.
51:01
Speaker 1: It's a sellable proposition. Soccer seems to do just fine
51:06
Speaker 1: in these worlds.
51:07
Speaker 2: The product is right there. Are people really out on
51:11
Speaker 2: college football and college basketball because there's no draft? No,
51:13
Speaker 2: they don't care. They love it, the fact that there's
51:16
Speaker 2: no draft. So the idea that in pro sports we
51:18
Speaker 2: need a draft is so antithetical to what we already
51:22
Speaker 2: know about what are the biggest sports in the world.
51:26
Speaker 2: College football is not out here saying, hey, man, this
51:29
Speaker 2: sport is great, but I really wish there was a
51:31
Speaker 2: draft where NC State could get the number one prospect
51:36
Speaker 2: recruit out of high school. We're not worried about that.
51:39
Speaker 2: Wake Forest, I'm not even out here being like, hey,
51:42
Speaker 2: Wake Forest is part of this ACC. We should have
51:44
Speaker 2: a shot at Cam Boozer. And Caleb Wilson. I understand
51:49
Speaker 2: the dynamics, and I'm okay with it. The NBA, NFL,
51:52
Speaker 2: it's different. But like you said, soccer's doing pretty well
51:56
Speaker 2: around the world, I would say.
51:58
Speaker 1: And so this is what I think with the draft
52:00
Speaker 1: and where it gets lost, or what I think would
52:02
Speaker 1: be interesting. Major League Baseball has now gone to a
52:05
Speaker 1: slotted draft like everybody else has gone to. But it
52:08
Speaker 1: used to be... Now, I want to say this is around,
52:10
Speaker 1: like you said, like 25 years ago is really the
52:12
Speaker 1: time where I think that this really thrived. But... What's
52:16
Speaker 1: beyond not having slotting of salaries pick by pick, which
52:19
Speaker 1: you also didn't have was the assumption that the number
52:23
Speaker 1: one pick had to make more than the number two
52:25
Speaker 1: pick who had to make more than number three pick
52:27
Speaker 1: and all the way down the line. So what would
52:29
Speaker 1: happen in baseball because you had this prospect of high
52:32
Speaker 1: school players who could come into the draft or anybody
52:35
Speaker 1: and then decide they didn't like where they got drafted.
52:37
Speaker 1: And then they could go back, like go to college
52:39
Speaker 1: or even in some cases, go back to college because
52:41
Speaker 1: you didn't make yourself eligible for the baseball draft. Everybody's
52:44
Speaker 1: just eligible. And then you make those decisions. What you
52:47
Speaker 1: wound up with were cases where maybe the best player
52:50
Speaker 1: in the draft might go in the third round. Like
52:53
Speaker 1: I remember any of you guys who remember Rick and Kiel,
52:56
Speaker 1: who started as a great pitcher and they couldn't pitch
52:59
Speaker 1: no more and then became a very good hitter. And
53:02
Speaker 1: then they got them, you know what I'm saying? hitting
53:06
Speaker 1: that juicy juice, and then it all went a different way.
53:09
Speaker 1: But he gets drafted in the third round, and I
53:11
Speaker 1: forget how big his bonus was, but the argument was
53:14
Speaker 1: we wait until the third round to take him because
53:16
Speaker 1: it's such a great risk as to whether or not
53:18
Speaker 1: we can sign him. And so that's how we reach
53:21
Speaker 1: equilibrium in that way. You have guys that can get
53:24
Speaker 1: drafted early because I know I can offer him this,
53:26
Speaker 1: and now we're going to take him, and he's going
53:27
Speaker 1: to come in. By limiting salaries in all the ways
53:32
Speaker 1: that they have limited salaries– They've created these problems in
53:37
Speaker 1: doing this.
53:37
Speaker 3: Right.
53:37
Speaker 1: So this isn't like 1983 pre lottery where one player
53:42
Speaker 1: could change fortunes so much, which is really not the
53:45
Speaker 1: case now either. Right. The impact of drafting Ralph Sampson
53:48
Speaker 1: was the one that led to the last like super
53:50
Speaker 1: duper tank situation. And then Akeem Olajuwon the next year
53:53
Speaker 1: for the it was the Rockets tanking so hard that
53:55
Speaker 1: made people be like, hey. We ain't going to do that.
53:57
Speaker 1: You draft Cooper flag. Now it's not like drafting Shaq
54:01
Speaker 1: was in 92 and your 25 wins better. Right? Like,
54:05
Speaker 1: but the, the behaviors are molded by the history and
54:08
Speaker 1: all the things that we've done. But if you got
54:10
Speaker 1: rid of capping those salaries, we could get rid of
54:13
Speaker 1: a lot of these problems. But of course they're never
54:15
Speaker 1: going to do that.
54:16
Speaker 2: No. Um, I haven't watched too much college basketball, but
54:22
Speaker 2: I do know one thing is that A.J. DeBonsa being
54:24
Speaker 2: at BYU where the owner of the Utah Jazz is
54:28
Speaker 2: a big supporter of BYU. And I got to imagine
54:32
Speaker 2: that if they are available, if A.J. DeBonsa is available,
54:37
Speaker 2: if they're like the fifth pick and you're trying to
54:41
Speaker 2: get into number three to get a DeBonsa, They're going
54:44
Speaker 2: to move everything to go get that guy because this kid.
54:47
Speaker 1: He's so invested in that guy. He's been– because they
54:50
Speaker 1: moved him to Utah for high school. I can't remember
54:52
Speaker 1: if I missed you saying that part. His investment is
54:55
Speaker 1: a little weird actually.
54:57
Speaker 2: Yeah. So they're trying to get him in Utah for sure.
55:02
Speaker 2: And I just– if you open it up, I'm sure
55:05
Speaker 2: they would offer him the most money, the biggest package
55:08
Speaker 2: to go to Utah in a way that like everyone
55:10
Speaker 2: would know what time it is, right? They would know, hey,
55:12
Speaker 2: this guy– he wants, he's at BYU. He wants to
55:15
Speaker 2: be in Utah and it would be very different. And I've,
55:18
Speaker 2: I've made this argument before, but it's like to people
55:21
Speaker 2: who are like, Oh, the Lakers would just get everybody,
55:23
Speaker 2: but the Knicks would just get everybody. That's not how
55:27
Speaker 2: 18 year old basketball players think they, they want the ball.
55:31
Speaker 2: They want the organization. They want the power. And if
55:34
Speaker 2: you're going to a team that has LeBron and Luka
55:37
Speaker 2: and Austin Reeves already averaging 25 a night and they
55:40
Speaker 2: don't have much use for you with the ball in
55:41
Speaker 2: your hands, that's not a place I want to be.
55:44
Speaker 2: And so if you need any evidence of that, look
55:47
Speaker 2: at college basketball. There are guys going to Lawrence, Kansas,
55:51
Speaker 2: you know, like they're signing. You think small markets? How
55:55
Speaker 2: about Lawrence, Kansas? There's a powerhouse there. Upstate New York
55:59
Speaker 2: and Syracuse got Carmelo Anthony. There are ways that these
56:03
Speaker 2: small markets can offer something to these players that they
56:07
Speaker 2: will sign up for. And I know the culture in
56:09
Speaker 2: the NBA is such that we just expect that once
56:11
Speaker 2: you're a superstar, you're only going to want to play
56:13
Speaker 2: in Hollywood or in New York or Miami. but there's
56:16
Speaker 2: so much evidence in college basketball that is not true.
56:19
Speaker 2: Look at Lexington, look at Durham, North Carolina, and look
56:22
Speaker 2: at Lawrence, Kansas. These aren't metropolises, okay? And that's how they.
56:28
Speaker 1: Look at.
56:29
Speaker 2: College football is another example, man. These powerhouses are not
56:32
Speaker 2: in metropolis cities. They're not. And so when you look
56:35
Speaker 2: at it, I think the NBA is not going to
56:38
Speaker 2: switch to a no draft anytime soon. But when you
56:41
Speaker 2: are asked about how do we fix tanking, that's the
56:44
Speaker 2: only solution, I think, We should really spend some time talking.
56:47
Speaker 1: Well, let me throw you another hot take. I don't
56:49
Speaker 1: know how many of you youngsters out there are familiar
56:52
Speaker 1: with Sam Kennison, but he had a routine back in
56:55
Speaker 1: the day that may offend some of y'all, but was
56:57
Speaker 1: really funny when it came out because we used to
57:00
Speaker 1: have a whole lot of commercials and we sang songs
57:02
Speaker 1: about sending money to the people of Ethiopia because they
57:05
Speaker 1: was a little bit hungry. And Sam Kennison said that
57:09
Speaker 1: we needed to stop sending money money over there and
57:13
Speaker 1: sending food over there, but that's not what those people need.
57:16
Speaker 1: He said, we needed to send them U-Hauls so they
57:19
Speaker 1: can move where the food is, right? A little harsh,
57:24
Speaker 1: very funny. I'm just saying. It's your stupid ass fault
57:29
Speaker 1: for having a team where black people don't want to live.
57:31
Speaker 1: It's basketball, right? Like if the thought is, well, nobody
57:36
Speaker 1: will want to go live in Utah. Well, maybe Utah
57:39
Speaker 1: shouldn't have a team. How about that? I don't want
57:41
Speaker 1: to live in Sacramento. Why the fuck did you move
57:43
Speaker 1: a team to Sacramento in the first place? Like if
57:47
Speaker 1: where you are is so unattractive to the people who
57:51
Speaker 1: play the games, maybe you shouldn't have a team or
57:55
Speaker 1: you're just going to have to spend money a lot
57:58
Speaker 1: of money to get people to play for you.
58:01
Speaker 4: Or not win yeah or not win yeah these are
58:05
Speaker 4: your these these are your these are your choices right
58:08
Speaker 4: um and look it's interesting because back in the day
58:11
Speaker 4: um you had teams it was the celtics the suns
58:14
Speaker 4: and the jazz howard bryan always talks about this those
58:17
Speaker 4: are the teams that always had all the white dudes
58:19
Speaker 4: right like it was it was the brand to have
58:21
Speaker 4: all the white dudes.
58:22
Speaker 1: Not terribly different than what I do basketball was for stretches.
58:26
Speaker 1: These were the teams that always had all the white dudes. NBA,
58:29
Speaker 1: you couldn't survive like that no more. That wasn't it. Utah,
58:34
Speaker 1: I can't think of the last Jeff Hornacek that they
58:36
Speaker 1: had over there.
58:38
Speaker 2: They did draft Kyle Filipowski.
58:41
Speaker 1: In the second round?
58:42
Speaker 3: Yep.
58:43
Speaker 2: But what team did take a chance on Kyle?
58:46
Speaker 1: That is fair. That is fair. But, you know, there's
58:49
Speaker 1: a lot going on, but you're correct. They did make
58:53
Speaker 1: that move.
58:54
Speaker 2: You took that steering wheel and went, okay.
58:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
58:57
Speaker 2: Get out of there.
58:59
Speaker 1: But, hey, man, if you ain't got what the people.
59:02
Speaker 2: Want, that's your fault.
59:04
Speaker 3: Yeah.
59:05
Speaker 1: Yep. Yep.
59:05
Speaker 2: And, look, I just– Utah did it. They they, they
59:09
Speaker 2: acquired Jaron Jackson jr. In a trade. They sent out
59:11
Speaker 2: three picks and pretty good picks by the way, to
59:13
Speaker 2: get Jaron Jackson jr. Who's going to make a lot
59:15
Speaker 2: of money next year. I, I, I, part of me
59:19
Speaker 2: thinks that this was just straight arbitrage that they felt
59:21
Speaker 2: like the price for Jaron Jackson jr. And his contract
59:24
Speaker 2: was such that they can move them this off season
59:26
Speaker 2: and and get more for him for a team that's
59:29
Speaker 2: actually trying to win. Cause I don't know, man, it
59:31
Speaker 2: just seems very confusing why they made that move in
59:34
Speaker 2: Washington and Evita Zubats. The, the pick that they got,
59:39
Speaker 2: the Clippers got is one through four protected and 10
59:42
Speaker 2: through 30 protected. Meaning the only way that the Clippers
59:46
Speaker 2: are going to get this is if it's five through
59:49
Speaker 2: nine in the draft, otherwise it stays in Indiana. And
59:52
Speaker 2: that was a stunner to me too, but they just beat, Uh, in,
59:58
Speaker 2: I thought they were tanking and Evita Zubats hasn't suited up,
1:00:01
Speaker 2: but they just beat the Knicks in double overtime last night. And, uh,
1:00:04
Speaker 2: so I, it's a very confusing NBA season and I'm
1:00:07
Speaker 2: going to be trying to be here a lot more
1:00:09
Speaker 2: often this year, but, but money to help people understand
1:00:13
Speaker 2: how the NBA works this year. But I will tell you,
1:00:16
Speaker 2: it is confusing even for me watching that trade deadline
1:00:19
Speaker 2: and trying to, you know, uh, square some of these
1:00:22
Speaker 2: circles because it is very confusing why some of these
1:00:25
Speaker 2: teams are operating this way i would never have imagined
1:00:28
Speaker 2: and i think a lot of people insiders newsbreakers i
1:00:32
Speaker 2: don't think a lot of them pegged that the indiana
1:00:34
Speaker 2: pacers and utah jazz and the washington wizards would be
1:00:37
Speaker 2: the buyers no at the deadline it is very very strange.
1:00:42
Speaker 1: You're like it's a fascinating trade deadline that requires you
1:00:45
Speaker 1: to be really into the nba Because otherwise, it just
1:00:48
Speaker 1: didn't make any sense. And I will say this last
1:00:49
Speaker 1: thing before we go, and this is about Jaron Jackson,
1:00:52
Speaker 1: me personally. I feel like wherever Jaron Jackson ultimately ends up,
1:00:56
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's going to happen in year one,
1:00:57
Speaker 1: but I think it's going to be in year two,
1:01:00
Speaker 1: like what's happening right now with New York, with year
1:01:03
Speaker 1: two of Carl Anthony Towns. Year one, you're like, oh,
1:01:06
Speaker 1: my God, this guy is so good. Why would anybody
1:01:09
Speaker 1: want to give him away? And then you get to
1:01:11
Speaker 1: year two, and it's like, oh, that's what they were
1:01:13
Speaker 1: talking about. got it like it takes the honeymoon year
1:01:17
Speaker 1: and with jaron jackson that is the i don't if
1:01:21
Speaker 1: he stayed in utah amen and people ain't here for
1:01:23
Speaker 1: somebody that big getting those six and a half seven
1:01:25
Speaker 1: rebounds a game like he i don't he he's so
1:01:30
Speaker 1: maddening and confusing to me right because big guy who
1:01:34
Speaker 1: can block shots and shoot threes fouls way too much
1:01:37
Speaker 1: but somehow doesn't get rebounds.
1:01:38
Speaker 2: Yeah what yeah He's a big wing, right? Big wing
1:01:43
Speaker 2: player who likes to go off the dribble, doesn't rebound.
1:01:46
Speaker 2: And Larry Markkinen, he are the two biggest guys in
1:01:49
Speaker 2: the league that rebound like guards. So Walker Kessler is
1:01:53
Speaker 2: going to be out here with 20 rebounds a game
1:01:54
Speaker 2: if they re-sign him this offseason. He's a restricted free agent,
1:01:57
Speaker 2: but he's going to have 20, 25 rebounds a night.
1:02:00
Speaker 2: He's going to look like Moses Malone, peak Wilt Chamberlain
1:02:04
Speaker 2: on the boards next year because he's got Jaron Jackson Jr.,
1:02:07
Speaker 2: Larry Markkinen, who are two seven footers who rebound like
1:02:11
Speaker 2: they're six footers.
1:02:12
Speaker 1: Let me tell you something about Jaron Jackson Jr. Let
1:02:14
Speaker 1: me look this up right now. Okay. He got on
1:02:19
Speaker 1: his contract. He's got, okay, kicks in next year at
1:02:25
Speaker 1: 49 and then 50 and then 52 and then a
1:02:27
Speaker 1: player option for 53. Those are millions just so everybody understands. Okay.
1:02:33
Speaker 1: If he's still in Utah start next year, He going
1:02:36
Speaker 1: to be out there playing like I would be playing
1:02:39
Speaker 1: if I was Klay Thompson. Without a care in the world.
1:02:44
Speaker 1: I'm out here playing for this team that ain't actually
1:02:46
Speaker 1: trying to win nothing. And if I keep playing like this,
1:02:49
Speaker 1: what I'm going to get out of this is I
1:02:51
Speaker 1: don't have to play in Utah no more. Bet. I'm
1:02:55
Speaker 1: going to be a moseying motherfucker, man. I ain't got
1:02:58
Speaker 1: nothing for you. The protests I put off of you
1:03:01
Speaker 1: trading me to Utah, I can't begin to explain that
1:03:04
Speaker 1: to you.
1:03:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, my sneaky prediction is that I think they're going
1:03:09
Speaker 2: to get rid of the Jazz name. They're not putting
1:03:14
Speaker 2: Jazz on the front anymore. They're just putting Utah. You
1:03:19
Speaker 2: know those classic jerseys with Jazz on them? Yeah, yeah.
1:03:21
Speaker 2: With Karl Malone and John Stockton and Jeff Hornacek years?
1:03:27
Speaker 2: It's just Utah now.
1:03:28
Speaker 1: Yo, it's too late, right? I feel like we both
1:03:31
Speaker 1: agree about this, that the time to do that was immediately.
1:03:33
Speaker 1: Y'all are now the Utah Jazz. This is the most
1:03:38
Speaker 1: delightfully ironic name that has ever existed in the world.
1:03:42
Speaker 1: I can't believe that the people of Utah let them
1:03:45
Speaker 1: name that team after the devil's music for even one day.
1:03:49
Speaker 1: But they did.
1:03:51
Speaker 2: OK, the Pelicans are in New Orleans. Come on. Come on.
1:03:55
Speaker 1: It is too late to make them the New Orleans Jazz.
1:03:58
Speaker 1: Is it?
1:03:58
Speaker 2: No, I'm here for this.
1:04:00
Speaker 1: No, no. I think it's too late because Utah had
1:04:03
Speaker 1: been the Jazz for so long. Like this isn't this
1:04:05
Speaker 1: isn't like going back to the Hornets where the Hornets
1:04:08
Speaker 1: name was out of circulation.
1:04:10
Speaker 2: Hey, I still I think it's never too late. What's
1:04:12
Speaker 2: the line? The best time to plant a tree was
1:04:14
Speaker 2: 10 years ago. And the next best time is today.
1:04:17
Speaker 1: I think that they need to adapt to the present
1:04:19
Speaker 1: and it should be the New Orleans bounce. If we
1:04:21
Speaker 1: go name it after local music, it should be the
1:04:23
Speaker 1: New Orleans bounce, but it can't, the jazz. I can't
1:04:27
Speaker 1: believe I'm saying this. It belongs to Utah. No, it doesn't.
1:04:32
Speaker 2: No, I can't believe I'm saying that.
1:04:35
Speaker 1: I know, I know. But I mean, I think if
1:04:37
Speaker 1: they be an honest with themselves, they know what I'm saying.
1:04:41
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Like that's what y'all are now.
1:04:44
Speaker 1: You've been the jazz for what? 50 years.
1:04:47
Speaker 2: You want to, you're out here saying that the Jazz,
1:04:50
Speaker 2: the Utah fans, they want to harken back to the
1:04:54
Speaker 2: Karl Malone years. Okay. All right.
1:04:56
Speaker 1: Fine.
1:04:57
Speaker 3: Fine.
1:04:57
Speaker 2: If you want to die on that hill. I'm not
1:04:59
Speaker 2: dying on it.
1:05:00
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that this is, this is what they've been.
1:05:02
Speaker 1: This is what the person, what they're going to change
1:05:05
Speaker 1: the name to. And I want to be careful with
1:05:07
Speaker 1: my guesses because some of them might be cancelable.
1:05:12
Speaker 2: Something to do with mountains? Like, peak? Not Rockies, because
1:05:17
Speaker 2: the Colorado Rockies already exist. I don't even know if
1:05:19
Speaker 2: it is the Rockies. I don't think it is. I'm
1:05:20
Speaker 2: not up on my.
1:05:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's the Rockies. The hockey team is
1:05:23
Speaker 1: the mammoth.
1:05:25
Speaker 2: See, I'm down with that.
1:05:27
Speaker 1: I like that.
1:05:27
Speaker 2: I like that. The Utah Yetis don't really work, and
1:05:31
Speaker 2: there's probably copyright issues with that. But I just think
1:05:33
Speaker 2: the Jazz... They're already turning the page. The jerseys are
1:05:37
Speaker 2: already just Utah now. So they're already, I think, and
1:05:40
Speaker 2: it's a new ownership. I just, I don't know.
1:05:43
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna lie, man. I hear about it.
1:05:45
Speaker 2: The Utah Anges?
1:05:46
Speaker 1: Is that what you're... The idea that they even want
1:05:49
Speaker 1: to change it, it feels... It feel real Trumpy to me, dog.
1:05:54
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Like, it feels real... Like,
1:05:57
Speaker 1: why would you want to change it if not to
1:05:59
Speaker 1: take the black off? That's all you would be doing. Like,
1:06:02
Speaker 1: this is who y'all are. Y'all the Jazz. I can't
1:06:05
Speaker 1: believe this. I mean, they should have done this a
1:06:09
Speaker 1: long time ago. That's all I'm saying.
1:06:12
Speaker 2: Man, Pistol Pete is rolling over in his grave right now.
1:06:16
Speaker 2: You're saying that that's the jazz over there.
1:06:18
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, did Pistol Pete ever play for the
1:06:20
Speaker 1: Utah Jazz, by the way? Oh, boy.
1:06:23
Speaker 2: Now, this is actually... We are getting into a very
1:06:26
Speaker 2: interesting way. Let's see this. I.
1:06:30
Speaker 1: I think he only played for the New Orleans Jazz.
1:06:34
Speaker 1: He played 17 games for the Utah Jazz. And then
1:06:39
Speaker 1: they sent him on the pilgrimage that every Pete Maravich-like
1:06:43
Speaker 1: player was always intended to go on, and they sent
1:06:45
Speaker 1: him to his ancestral home of Boston.
1:06:50
Speaker 2: That's a wrap. That's a wrap.
1:06:51
Speaker 1: You know, and ladies and gentlemen, that is Tom Haverstraw,
1:06:55
Speaker 1: who realizes it's time to get off this ride. Check
1:06:58
Speaker 1: him out at Yahoo Sports. Check out Tom the Finder,
1:07:00
Speaker 1: his incredible newsletter. I get it every week. You need
1:07:03
Speaker 1: to check that out. My brother, I appreciate you.
1:07:05
Speaker 2: Oh, that was great, man. Always appreciate it. And thanks
1:07:08
Speaker 2: for having me on. We'll do it again soon.
1:07:09
Speaker 1: Yes, sir. And ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for
1:07:11
Speaker 1: joining us here on The Right Time. We do this
1:07:13
Speaker 1: four days a week. Ryan Brumley handled the thing behind
1:07:15
Speaker 1: the scenes. Thank you, sir. Hit the voicemail line, 3-2-3-5-9-6-7-7-6-7. Damn,
1:07:20
Speaker 1: it's not too late. I'm going to put you on
1:07:21
Speaker 1: the spot, Tom. What is the funniest name that you
1:07:24
Speaker 1: could imagine being in the Epstein files?
1:07:27
Speaker 2: The funniest name?
1:07:29
Speaker 1: Yes.
1:07:31
Speaker 2: Bomani Jones.
1:07:32
Speaker 1: That's not funny at all.
1:07:34
Speaker 2: That's why it's funny.
1:07:36
Speaker 1: It's not funny. I keep coming up with different ones.
1:07:39
Speaker 1: Now I got Brad Stevens.
1:07:41
Speaker 3: Wow.
1:07:44
Speaker 1: Brad stevens that would be amazing if brad stevens is
1:07:46
Speaker 1: in the fc files i just thought we were going
1:07:49
Speaker 1: to watch basketball like that's what we need i want
1:07:53
Speaker 1: to see the emails in the fc files from dissatisfied people.
1:07:57
Speaker 2: Yeah what was it the elon musk and i can't
1:08:00
Speaker 2: believe we're doing this now but elon musk didn't he
1:08:02
Speaker 2: wasn't he like oh yeah uh I don't really like
1:08:06
Speaker 2: to hang out with diplomats. Like you think that's what
1:08:08
Speaker 2: Brad Stevens would be like. I don't really see. Do
1:08:10
Speaker 2: they play basketball? Do they know how to do a
1:08:12
Speaker 2: crossover dribble? Like how's their jumper looking? No, I don't
1:08:15
Speaker 2: really want to go to that event.
1:08:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. We got more time. All right. 3, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 7, 6, 7. Remember,
1:08:21
Speaker 1: follow the right time. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us,
1:08:23
Speaker 1: give us five stars. You only give us four stars.
1:08:25
Speaker 1: I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. We'll talk
1:08:27
Speaker 1: to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.