Latest / Remodelers On The Rise / Building a Company Clients Remember

Transcript

Building a Company Clients Remember · Remodelers On The Rise

• Kyle Hunt: Hey Remodeler, if marketing keeps falling to the bottom of your to-do list, I want you to check out Remodeler's Autopilot. Autopilot is our done-for-you email newsletter and social media marketing service specifically for remodeling companies. The goal is to help you show up consistently and stay in front of the right people without having to come up with content each and every week. If you want your marketing to stay consistent, While you stay focused on running the business, learn more at RemodelersAutopilot.com or the link in the show notes. It's a great little program. Welcome to the Remodelers on the Rise show. This is episode three hundred and something something. Darren just asked Bailey and I, how many episodes is this? And Bailey said close to four hundred. I wonder Darren, if we if we like found some kind of industry specific person you think, and we had a four hundredth episode, we want to make a big deal about it. Who comes to mind of who who we should interview for that one? Darin: boy, I don't know. I just listened to one of my favorite podcasts last week with Eric and at Job Tread and he interviewed somebody that I think you gotta have on here sometime. Maybe you have, but you could put him on here 'cause it was probably my favorite podcast. It was what is it? Leading ed Edge? Yeah, DeWalt's his last Kyle Hunt: Good ol good ol good old what's his name? Leading edge. Darin: name. Yeah, so somebody the construction leading edge. Kyle Hunt: Tod Todd DeWalt. Darin: Todd DeWalt, you gotta put him on here if he hasn't been on here sometime. Yeah. Kyle Hunt: All right. All right. Shout out shout out Todd. Darin: I'm gonna I'm gonna do a shout out to him even though I've never even heard of him until a week ago. So Kyle Hunt: Well there we go. And if you were at Job Tread Connect in January, you were probably fixated on my booth, but almost kind of kid Darin: Yes, definitely. Kyle Hunt: ki yes, kitty corner was was Todd over there in his black Darin: really? Kyle Hunt: and yellow, yes. Darin: I don't remember that. I think the reason that he resonated with me so much, and maybe this could be talked about a little bit at some point, but because what he is preaching is exactly our heartburn right now here at DK. Pre construction is Kyle Hunt: Mm, tell me more. Mm. Darin: is hurting us is we're I like his jets. We're doing too much jetting around here. Just enough to get just enough to start. So that is Kyle Hunt: Wow, you took that you you took notes. You took notes when you were listening to that, just enough to start. Yeah. Darin: Yeah, I did. In fact I instructed all of our people had to listen to that podcast from last week and then Jesse actually sent me notes and I've been looking at those. I use those as my quote for yesterday. We we present a quote each morning, Monday morning at the office huddle and I used his notes as my quotes 'cause it's it's it's definitely causing issues around here. So I Kyle Hunt: Hmm. Good. Not good, but good to identify it. Good, good to good to realize. All right, that's our even the way you said that of like that's our heartburn. That's another kind of I've never used that phrase before, but that might be interesting for people listening to this. You know, when you think about your business right now, where's where's the heartburn? And if you've ever had heartburn to all you you know, not a lot of 20 year olds have it, some 30 year olds have it. Well, you get in your forties, you know, like you know, like maybe two handsome guys that are talking to you right now. And you get older in that heartburn can come and and when it hits, it hurts. that's right. So really really thinking through what is what Darin: It's not very fun. You want to get rid of it as quick as you can. Kyle Hunt: is our heartburn here? What is the thing that we need to focus on? And like most things, focused intensity around that heartburn, around that bottleneck can move the needle. What doesn't move the needle and fix it and improve it is when we kind of pat at it and we kind of just sort of kind of Deal with it. Sometimes to get rid of this heartburn, we got to attack it. and even you thinking, all right, that inspired me a little bit. Enough of this just in time, deliver. We are going to do more and more work up front before this project hits hits production so that everything downstream is a lot smoother. No, no, no. We're going to get a fixed price on that. We're going to get all those selections made. We're going to have a really solid handoff between sales and production. We're going to attack this thing. Let me ask you one more question on that. And then I might even reveal your name and and have you do a proper introduction. What do you think is the biggest hindrance at DK construction that's preventing you from that process going smoother? Like what's what's kind of breaking down in the in the strategy or the approach? Darin: I would say it's a coup like most things, it's probably a couple of different things. The biggest being the me, I'm the bottleneck. I'm the owner, president, visionary, and only one doing sales for an eight plus million dollar company. Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: and I'm not I'm not doing every quote and estimate, but I'm the only one out there, the face, and that's what I like. But So because of that, our backlog is not where it needs to be. It's just a it's just this thing that just keeps building on each other. So our backlog Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: is low. We need to get the backlog up. Let's try and get that bit out. We throw out things that are not completely it's it's not a s a a shot in the dark and it's not it's not a I mean, one of our three uniques that we preach and and sell on is that we do a set price contract. I think we're we're faltering on that a little bit in in Kyle Hunt: Mm. Darin: Like we did a quote or we did a project recently, a large bathroom remodel and an expensive one. And we put the plumbing and electrical in as an allowance. That's that's the whole plumbing electrical, not just the fixtures. Kyle Hunt: Mm. Darin: That's normal. Well, we got all done and we're ten thousand dollars off and they're gonna have to pay ten thousand more. So do we eat it because we're the nice guys? Do we like we learn you don't do that. That's First off, it's not being true to what we said we would do. And second, it's it just makes uncomfortable conversations. So this all this stuff builds on each other and we're trying to rush, rush, rush. We got five handoffs we need to do to production right now. We should never Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: get to that point. Six actually. and so Kyle Hunt: But but yeah, it's so it sounds like you're seeing where that challenge is. Do you think the solution to it is you're over capacity and you need some additional resource to help take that on? Or is it or you need you just need to hustle faster and harder? Or what do you think the s yeah. Darin: I've been doing that too long. And so yeah, and so definitely. I I mean I probably always do. personally, it's not necessarily the hustle and the work a little bit harder, it's the time, I need to just eat that well. Kyle Hunt: Time kills deals. Eat the frog, it says. Darin: Seriously, and just focus and so I've been doing some of this after I listened to one of your podcasts recently, doing some of this block out thing. Okay, I'm working on this budget number at from nine to ten today or nine, nine forty Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: five, forty-five minutes. but also it is a little bit of people placement. We're moving things around. We're bringing Jamin, my brother, in as operations manager and project manager, and then moving a project manager to somebody that's going to focus just on selections and and orders and tracking and getting all those selections made. But there's two parts to this and I'd love to hear from people and maybe at some point there's two parts you can make selections. You can make in the bidding phase or you can make in the pre construction. So some signed to starting. And we'd we would like to get to the pre signing phase, but we're doing it right now almost in the jet phase. We got just enough to get started. And if any time those two things overlap each other on the Gantt chart as as forget his first name now, DeWalt was saying, is that that's chaos. It creates chaos when orders are happening when construction's happening and we got to get away from that because it just does. It creates chaos. So we would like to get it to where how case remodeling has it when it's all decided ahead of time. You gotta get paid for it. And Kyle Hunt: Mm. Darin: then when it's go time, it's just a matter of placing the order. It's I know, and we're gonna we're gonna try to get there. So Kyle Hunt: It's doable. It's doable. And it's so and it's Darin: what I what I told we were just talking about this right before I came into here and it's if we can just like Let's get one item selected. That's a win. Like Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: we got the decking selected. We didn't get the railing selected, but we got the decking selected. And that's one item that we don't have to worry about. Just let's Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: just focus on one item a job and next job let's try to get two items picked out. Kyle Hunt: Yeah. I heard a couple things there. Some clarity around what's causing it. I liked your just even thinking of the eat your frog. Like, you know I need to do? I need to go a little more in cocoon mode. I need to put my phone and do not disturb. I need to tell people, hey, I'm on reachable for the next 90 minutes. And part of the solution here is I need to focus more. That's true in my business with some of my lingering to-dos as well. So that's a good reminder for people listening to this. And then the other thing you're looking at is your capacity. Well, part of the reason I'm behind is I have a hundred and thirty percent workload and we're gonna get we're gonna get this person in place. We're gonna get that new role created and that's a that's an opportunity for success. hey, we went down that rabbit trail. Folks, I'm talking to Darren with DK construction down in Flora, Indiana, just outside Lafayette. what was Lafayette, Indiana? Who is that named after, sir? Darin: Some French explorer, wouldn't it? Marquee, yeah, there we go. Kyle Hunt: Marquis de Lafayette. You can hear about him in the musical Hamilton. Lafayette, I'm taking this host by the reins, make it red coat rather than blood stains. You familiar with Hamilton? good. I could wrap the whole I could wrap. Darin: Yes, I mean I know what you're talking about. What about Westloff head? Is that the same guy? Kyle Hunt: West Lafayette, I'm taking this host. No, it's not the same. It's not the same. That's that's his that's his stepbrother, Mr. West Lafayette. Marquis de Lafayette, very critical to helping us win the war, the war back in 1776. Without Lafayette, we'd have been in a little bit more trouble as we approach our 250-year anniversary. But so down in down in Indiana, tell us a little bit just about kind of your company history, where you guys have been, where you are today. And then we have two main themes that we're going to discuss today. We'll tell them about it in a second. Darin: DK was started by my father, Denny Kuntz, in nineteen eighty nine. He had worked for his older brother for several years and decided he wanted to get out and go on his own. definitely concentrating on the work, wearing the nail back, just like a lot of builders started out with. And so, you know, a couple guys, a truck. I started he and doing just general construction. His goal was actually to do only nice, fine carpentry, trim work, mill work, specialty things and that did not did not necessarily pan out, so he just moved to more into general construction. I started in two thousand one, the year I got married. Moved out to Pennsylvania before that, met my wife, got married and came back here. I've said this before, probably people probably heard it, but I I couldn't work for him when I lived at home. He he didn't allow that. He w he wanted us to go do something else. And it wasn't necessarily we had to move out, but just go learn under somebody else. So I went and did that from I don't know, I mean for six, seven, eight years. so two two of us brothers came back, two did not, and so it's that's it's us two, my brother James and I that are owners with my dad now. So we're in the middle of a transition buy down phase. Kyle Hunt: Exciting. Darin: yeah, it is. It's it's it's a it's a learning time and and it can be challenging, but and and we've had our times and there's no question, but we've came through it pretty good, I'd say. Kyle Hunt: Excellent. Excellent. Darin: yeah, like Kyle said, Lafayette, West Lafayette area is our our key market, which is Purdue. A lot of industry here, especially in the last ten years has just exploded. So a lot of doctors, lawyers, Purdue professors are are our ideal clients. our kind of motto I guess is is develop clientele and do whatever they want done. little bit backwards from just focusing in on certain things. And it's worked well for us. It does create Kyle Hunt: Develop clientele. Hmm. Darin: some challenges. And when I when I say that I mean that there's going to be fun work we do, there's going to be unfund work we do. But if the client meets three requirements that we have for every client, then we will work for them. Kyle Hunt: Those three being what? Darin: Those three being they gotta be nice. We gotta want the work done right and they gotta be willing to pay for it. And if they meet those three requirements, we might be crawling around in their crawl space someday, or we might be building them a just finished up a two hundred and fifty thousand dollar bathroom remodel. But we're there for and if they can trust us for the small, if we can be a good steward and be found faithful in the small things, then we'll be found hopefully faithful. in the large things. It's kinda how Kyle Hunt: And the bigger things. Darin: we look at that. Kyle Hunt: Is there anything that you turn down as far as projects go? Okay. Okay. Darin: insurance work, if at all possible. yes and no. Probably not if it is an existing client. So I said we started nineteen eighty nine, we're doing a project right now for client one from nineteen eighty nine. And so anything he calls me for, I'm probably not going to turn him down. He will Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: call me for for most everything. If we don't do it, I we have a I mean our sub one of a subs will. And some of those subs are also the same subs, actually. Our like electrician plumber from that job is the same same one from eighty nine. So no, very little will we turn down, but now like if someone is going to call see somebody called yesterday for something, I think it was, and they're not a past client, they're the the spot's not correct. There's just a lot of negatives that are going to outweigh the yes. but if they would have called from the right area, all the other things, maybe. Because we don't know what it'll lead to, it seems like. I'd probably Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: rather go out and help them maybe with their problem. Maybe I can get directed to somebody or I know my dad was always very good about that. If I I'd be like, why are why are we even here talking to them? And my wife's just to help out that w he's telling how to do the job, maybe even, or who to call. Go about our day and and you don't know who they know or you don't know Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: where they may be in five, ten years and they might be our ideal client. If you just completely blew off, you're definitely probably not getting called back. So I know there's a balance there though. It it Kyle Hunt: Yeah. There's a coup coup yeah, there there there is a balance and and you're casting a pretty wide net at the same time. We've got our three things. At the same time, you know, this is this is who we are. This is what we're about. It's not a haphazard thing. This is something you've witnessed and watched and experienced all of these years. a couple other things related to it. One is you have a decent number of folks in the field as far as self-performing work. How many in the field? Darin: well altogether there's twenty eight, twenty nine of us Kyle Hunt: Right. Darin: and there is take six so twenty. Kyle Hunt: Yeah. Right. So that that plays a factor into, you know, how many projects we're taking on and how we're approaching approaching that. at the same time, there's a good chunk of your work that that is being done and good chunk of your revenue that is being performed on larger projects. but you know, those smaller projects, yes, it can be a little filler work for your team of 20 that just keep eating up hours. Yes, that small project could turn into a bigger project. And that is your strategy. If you're listening to this, you might go, you know what? That has been our strategy. And frankly, we need to stop with that strategy, get our average job size up and kind of quiet down and calm down our business. There is a lot of different ways to be successful in remodeling. We're just hearing one Darin: There is. Kyle Hunt: one specific story here. So good. That gives us a little backstory. The two d denied, denied. Darin: I'd like to comment on one more thing about that is that that to Okay. All right. Kyle Hunt: See, Darren, you've never you've never experienced. You've we did some coaching together. You know, I was a little but you were the client then. Now I am the I am the I am the man in charge here. I don't even have to pretend to, you know, be Darin: Mm-hmm. Kyle Hunt: nice and whatnot. I'm joking. I'm joking. One other comment, please, sir. Please. Darin: Well, just that we have a service crew crews now, as of earlier this year. So we have a crew of one each. So two crews of one that they're their own van, own format, and all they do is service and maintenance work. we actually got a call from a client that wanted us a past client. This is where it would be a yes or a no probably. If a an exist an old client a new client calls and asks this, it might be a no. An existing client calls and ask this, it's a yes, we'll be there. She needed the light bulb changed in her refrigerator. Kyle Hunt: Hm. Darin: So yes, we did that. So Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: so two to four men are all the time on service and maintenance work. But but and I and we are able to charge for that. We're able to charge good for it. It is very we've actually been able to pull that out a little bit with I think we maybe you've talked about this in some of our coaching, like how can we are we actually making money at this? I'm convinced, and this is just a gut, that we could be breaking even and it would still be worth it. It's leading to other jobs. They are s they are instructed. They're even supposed to fill out on their daily log. Did did they tell us about did you know we also Kyle Hunt: Mm. Darin: do this? And then they have a brochure and a card that they hand them. but boy, fifteen years ago a client had a drywall crack that she could not get fixed. Nobody people have tried and we came in and fixed it. And if she was not existing client at that time, six thousand dollars. And we have done hundreds and hundreds now. So I just go Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: back to that all the time. I think the guys probably get tired of hearing it. But Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: we took care of that little thing. Kyle Hunt: Yeah. And and on the more the handyman service type work, the way we price that and the margins we aim to make on that is different than our core remodeling work. I love the idea of being proactive with the marketing on that. Of did you know we also do this? when it comes to service work and handyman work for you listening, listening to this, making sure it's very self-contained. I think my con did my connection go off for a second. All right, but it's back. You're hearing me fine? Okay. Darin: just a smidge there, yeah, you're getting a little blurry. Kyle Hunt: It sa it said insta instable. So Bailey make a note of the eighteen minute mark. We might have to do a quick edit there. making sure that if it is handyman or service type work, that that person can, you know, quote quote it or do the TNM aspect of it, can maybe even do the billing and collect payment, as much of that that can be self-contained just reduces a lot of the noise in in the office. And to your point. Let's not guesstimate what this is making. Let's do a little bit of work so we can see more clearly the revenue coming in, our cost of goods sold, our gross profit on that. And that just helps us be strategic. All right. First big, big area that we're going to talk of, one or two. client journey and experience. Client journey and experience. We want to hear from from Darren some of the ways that they're approaching the client journey and the client's experience and some of the things they're doing with that. And secondly, How are we going about the the employees and the culture side of things? do you want me to comment on what you just held up? Dur during our quarter of one-on-one coaching, we dug in a lot into financials, folks. And we were digging into PLs and margins, and we we kind of adjusted the way they're doing their hourly rates and a little bit more clarity around job costing. We just nerd it out. And as we're talking about, you know, things we can, Darren's like, you know, we just I think we need to tighten up some of our tools that we're purchasing and You know, maybe you're right, Kyle. Maybe we don't need a brand new van. We could use that used one out there and and it's gonna be fine. And I'm I'm pushing them to kind of clamp down a little bit, gents. and while he's doing that, show him for those watching video, he was sipping his San Pelangrino, his beautiful, expensive sparkling water. And every time I talk to him, he's drinking some new fancy water, and I'm like, that's the death by a thousand cuts right there. Maybe you could just drink some. Costco, you know, bottled water that cost five cents a bottle. But sometimes it's also just the little things in life, isn't it, Darren? But Darin: Yeah, that's right. You you gotta splurge Kyle Hunt: yes. But didn't that come from, did you have a client's event? You made up some excuse as to why you had it in your hand. Like, well, we had this leftover from something. Is that right? No. You're just all right. You're just a fancy, you're just a fancy guy. Darin: I don't remember. Yeah, I don't remember. Yeah. W the guys around here got me on it. It it's just good. So it's just something I don't drink pop Kyle Hunt: All right, all right. Darin: at all, so it's like it kinda makes me feel like I'm getting something a little special. Yeah. Kyle Hunt: That little fizz. Yeah, yeah. I f I find it tastes like crap, but to each his own, to each his own. Client journey, Darin: Yep. Kyle Hunt: client journey. So there were several things that I did write down those three uniques. I thought that was interesting. I wanted to hear about that. some post-construction interview, some customer confidence checklist, some different things there. let's kind of just roll around a few different ideas related to enhancing the client journey and your client's experience. What's what's coming to mind that? Darin: Well, the customer confidence check up checkup is something that we just implemented probably six weeks ago or so. And I Kyle Hunt: Hm. Darin: gotta give a shout out to my friends in Ohio, D.A. Bowman Construction. also I don't know if you met them before or not, but they're also job tread users. They they had this the framework for this that I don't know if they come up with it on their own or not, but I'm in a peer group with them and so they shared it with me. And so I don't know, we have different levels. I don't know if you're gonna share that. and all or not, but green, yellow, or red. And so once a week we intentionally set down and go over this at our project management meeting. But since everything is in Job Tread, we are seeing communication at all times. And if you look right there under what if I were the customer, how would I feel right now? That is how we are supposed to be asking ourselves. not asking the customer You know, are you a green? Are you yellow? Are you red? It's if I was a customer, how would I feel? And what green means is that they're clear on what's happening, that we've talked within the last few days, the communication's been recent and proactive. And so the thought here is is that if I cannot answer yes to those questions, I have to put it in yellow. Kyle Hunt: Hm. Darin: And in yellow then it it can't stay there, so something has to happen. Kyle Hunt: Yeah. So pause so pause here. So if you're watching the video version, you're seeing this on the screen. if you're doing the audio podcast, I betcha if you look in the show notes, the illustrious Remollers on the Rise team will have a link to this on there. And this again, customer confidence checkup. One of the ways that we are ensuring a great client experience is we are have implemented this. If you were the customer, if you were the customer, how would you feel right now? Green, confident, and informed, everything's great. yellow, uncertain slash needs attention, and then red, I think I'd be kind of concerned, frustrated. I think this is unknown. This issue's lingering. communication hasn't been great lately. As you've been implementing this, how how has it kind of been working so far? I know it's still kind of new. How has it helped? Darin: It's new enough, it's a little bit hard to it's a little hard to say. I I feel like we did a really good job of this ahead of time, like keeping them informed, but as Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: As we've gotten a little bit bigger and different people are in charge of different say jobs or whatever, like is it really happening? So it's it's good to actually have something that we actually look at and say, Okay, are we doing this? Are you doing this? And if you look down there underneath authentic reporting, there's the thing where it says it's not a scorecard, it's a tool. Report what it is, not what you wish it was. Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: it it's not it it can't be like it can't I if there's something that's gotta be addressed, it needs to happen probably outside of this meeting. Like y okay, we're this person's in yellow or this job has been in yellow like for a long time. That Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: probably needs to get addressed outside of that, but what do we need to do right now to get it to green because it we are trying to make this about the customer and that they're informed. Kyle Hunt: Yeah. And and if did you add a new field into job tread so I could almost Darin: Yes. Kyle Hunt: pull up all of your active projects and see green, yellow, or red? Darin: Yes. Yep. So we have a customer confidence PM. So project management, we have a customer conf and now this we also do this in the sales side. So when did you tell you're gonna be getting the quote back? What are you waiting on them for things? Are they just do they know that the quote's gonna be for three more weeks or are they just sitting there thinking any day it's gonna be coming in? And I'm yeah, my people listening in around here are gonna go, yeah, he does think about that but it I'm I'm the weak link there, but Kyle Hunt: Yeah, but identifying it as huge. And then down at the bottom, non negotiables for every job. No job goes more than three to five days without communication. That's a standard. No yellow stays yellow past a week. No red goes unaddressed immediately. Every concern gets ownership by name. Customers never get ignored even if you're off work. Pass them off to somebody that's that's on on staff. so just some good standards there, a little bit of how we can measure this. And again An idea like this is great. And then I like the implementation of it of going, yes, we go in, we update it. It's very clear in Job Trad, we can see it. and hopefully this will enhance our proactiveness with that side of things. well, that was a great that was a great first example of how we're enhancing the client experience. Which one's next, Aaron? Darin: one I wanted to do is another thing we enhance it is things we do for clients so delight the client and that picture that you have there we have a crew meeting every well once a month and I'm trying to get the guys to think about little things or it goes along a little bit with that hug. Do you know Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: what hug means or did you just learn it when I sent you that picture. Kyle Hunt: Aga again, I'm in charge here. I don't get to be put on the spot. I don't get to be put on Darin: Mm. Okay, whoops, my bad. Kyle Hunt: the spot and you make me look like a fool. That's not the point of this exercise. Darin: I give you the answer. It was like open book test. Kyle Hunt: I know. No, it was great. heartfelt, unexpected gesture. Let's dish out some more hugs, people. Are you by the way, Darren, are you are you a hugger? Are you like you is that is that something you do a lot of or not? Darin: You mean this right here or like Kyle Hunt: No, fit, no, fit, like come up somebody you are you are you known as kind of being, he's a he's a hugger. Yeah, I didn't think so. I don't remember getting a hug from you last time I saw you at Darin: Mm. No, not really. No. I wouldn't say so. Kyle Hunt: job tread, but we'll see. He is gonna be at the Rise conference in in Darin: That's right. Kyle Hunt: a short amount of time here, less than two months from this recording date. And who knows? He might go, All Darin: If I get my work done needed. Kyle Hunt: right, all right, Kyle, come over here. You wanted a hug, because I am a hugger. but this this photo of Darin: Mm. Kyle Hunt: things we can do for clients, how can we enhance? How can we delight the client? Is what is what you guys were brainstorming during one of your meetings? Darin: Yeah, and I on this one sp specifically I've given them ideas. This time I try to do a little bit differently and say, okay, you give me ideas. And so these are all things that they came up with. the newspapers laying there on the on the s street, sidewalk, whatever in front. Take Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: it take it on inside. there's Amazon packages about always setting there. I mean, first off, you gotta trip over them to get in, so you might as well grab and and carry them on in. Kyle Hunt: Yeah. Darin: snow off of the vehicle, blow off walks, yard. Just take time for We had a customer recently that she said she just really appreciated it at our post construction interview that we just took the time each day to stop, say hi. She said I could tell Kyle Hunt: Mm. Darin: they were wanting to get to where they were going to the end of the house and get and get working, but they took the time. extra sweeping, fine common interest. I really enjoyed doing that on sales calls, just walk in and and see pictures of vacation they've done or their dog or just something that you have maybe done or and that you can make a connection pets respect. a little funny story is is on the snow off the vehicle, after we did this, I probably waited like a month, so it would have been May. And I sent out a mass text to everybody. I said, Hey, what have you done recently to delight the client? And one of the little mouthy employees replied back said, Doug and I have kept the snow off their vehicle all whole project. You know, this is May. So, yeah. He he did remember. Yeah. Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. He remembered. He remembered that was one of those things. Yeah. I think that that client experience, what we saw there was a bunch of little things. Not some magic thing, not some big magic bullet, but a combination of a lot of little things. And even the concept of having the team brainstorm what are little things that we could do that would enhance things. that's a great exercise for people listening to this. Pete Burric, I interviewed him a few months ago. And he was t using the example of, all right, let's play this game. Like, what would an eight out of ten experience look like? What Darin: I like this. Kyle Hunt: would a what would a nine out of ten because eight out of ten, you got some issues a little bit. What would ten out of ten look like? And he takes it of like, let's let's get ridiculous. Like, what would 12 out of 10 look like? And it gets to the point where it's like, well, we kind of pick them up in a in a limo and take them to our office for this meeting. Like you just get kind of crazy. And all of a sudden, when you go back to a nine or a ten, it's like, We can do this. We can do this. Let that little list that Darren just shared and us just kind of sharing this a little bit of going, how can you enhance your clients' experience? We are complacent. We are maybe a little apathetic about it. Maybe we got fired up and we we read unreasonable hospitality or you listen to a podcast or whatever the case is. maybe you read good to great. You got that behind you. it's something that constantly needs to be revisited and pushed. When you see one of your team members go the extra mile, make a Big stinking deal about it. Highlight it. Praise it. reward it because what you reward and what you praise, that's gonna grow. That's gonna grow. So my my me with you. continue to figure out how can we make this an even better experience for our clients. It's something we've actually been quite active with at Ramalers on the Rise as well. It was in particular after we read on reasonable hospitality and Darin: Mm. Kyle Hunt: have just been putting some more focused effort behind it. You mentioned, yeah. Darin: Don't cost any more. I mean, those items that I had down there did not cost us a dime more. And if it Kyle Hunt: Yeah. Darin: gets you a call back next time just because of that, I mean what was you spending in marketing? So Kyle Hunt: Bingo. Bingo. you mentioned during your you're mentioning that of during a post-construction interview, this Darin: Mm. Kyle Hunt: came up. Talk about what what you're doing in post-construction. How does that work? Darin: So the salesperson, which at this point is just me, but I go back and meet with them after the job is all done. sometimes before it's final invoice, sometimes not, sometimes we're talking about the final invoice and change orders and finishing everything up at that talk. But we have a form made out in Job Tread that has I don't know, eight to ten questions. Some of them are just statements, but we have it all prepared ahead of time. I go in though purposely without a computer, without an iPad, and I have it printed off. And I just say I would like to go sit down and talk with you. I have a list of questions I want to go over with you. And I ask them for three things that please them most about the project. and I guess another shout out to Brian Altman at DBS remodeling. He's the one that put me in put me in on asking these questions. So three things that well first off I I tell them Kyle Hunt: And Brian and Brian, if you're listening to this, I remember talking to you many, many years ago. You're probably as young and handsome as I and I am as well as the last time we talked, but he was he was that was probably ten or twelve years ago. He was very sharp then. He's probably even sharper now. Darin: He's very sharp. I have learnt a lot from him and I really appreciate him. So he Kyle Hunt: Okay, we keep if we kept talking about it, would you start tearing up? Are you an emotional man? No, I'm not talking him. I'm talking you. Are you an emotional man? No. Darin: He might a little bit, yeah. He might actually a little bit. you might. Yeah, he might too though, but I might too. Yeah. I've flown he's flown out here twice to see us and help us and do stuff, so Kyle Hunt: Awesome. Darin: you first gotta con Kyle Hunt: Three things that please them most. Darin: you gotta first convince them or not convince them, but tell them that hey I'm not just here just to kinda make conversation. I am taking this information and it is going to go back, we are going to talk about as a team to decide what we can do differently. Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: so it's not just a formality. 'Cause it can easily become that. But what what's three things that pleased you most? And try to try to it what's and what's three things we could have done differently. Those are the two biggest things. There's some other questions that we asked, but those are two biggest things. I've learned and I'm not very good at this, but I've learned that you ask the question, then just shut up. Because you you easily can start trying to prompt for the Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: qu answer that you want. Like everything was pretty good, right? I mean we didn't do much bad. Is there is there anything you can even think of at all? Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: And I don't let know ahead of time either, also, because they usually there's sh there's always something. I mean Kyle Hunt: Yes. Darin: and and like Brian has told me, a lot of times the h like I even had recently the husband said, Well I'm not quite as I'm a little more blunt than my wife, so I d I do have something. And they hey, yeah, I'll give it out here. But this last client that we did I did that with, she She gave me seven items. And I thought this was really interesting. She gave me seven items that pleased her most. And it was, it was it was talking to her. It was the bathroom that we used, that she said you can use this bathroom during project. We had floor protection going to it. We had our own towels that we used. and she said, I mean that I just never knew that. You kept it clean. Anyway, there were seven items and one talked about the work. Kyle Hunt: Hmm. Darin: six did not. Kyle Hunt: Yeah. Darin: So all the other and so it's just like that those are the extra things, those are the hugs, those are the things that Kyle Hunt: Yeah. Darin: that's where the money's at. Kyle Hunt: Yeah. What does hug stand for again? Darin: Heartfelt unexpected gesture gesture. Kyle Hunt: Man, I was hoping I was hoping you're gonna butcher and I'd be like, you were giving me a hard time. but even that idea of whether it's whether it's for you know during the final invoice or I've seen it done where you know the invoice is done, all of the billing's done. Now I'm gonna come out here. That's even more of a pure like I really care about what you guys have to Darin: I agree. Kyle Hunt: say. It's it that goes a huge a very, very long way. We talk often about how the final five percent of a project's really important. We could have been kicking button, taking names, and then we stumble at the finish line. And now all of a sudden that's what they remember. That's what they taste. And so even no matter how it kind of wrapped up, the idea of you coming out as the owner or as a key member of the team and really asking them these questions, what a great ending wrap-up. And and yes, the information that is shared there is very, very valuable. And some of us don't have the strategy. To actually ask the questions and invest that time. But boy, the I'm guessing there's never been one of those that you're like, that was a waste of time. It's never, it's always a net positive and for a variety of reasons. So that's excellent. Darin: Always learn something. Kyle Hunt: And then what's your three uniques that you guys do at DK? Darin: So the three uniques are set price contract, aligned expectations, and craftsmanship. Those are the three things that we think set us apart, the combination of those three things, I guess, together. And so, like Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: I mentioned a little bit ago, I felt like we're maybe a little weak, we're we're we're we're bluffing a little bit on this set price, which Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: we are and there's allowances in there, but we're maybe we're get straying us a little bit. Aligned expectations, might if that's there's lots of my data's drilled into my head, but that is the one thing. Customers can deal with most anything if if you've aligned expectations. If if if I'm trying to think of example, but if you're not gonna be there tomorrow, I mean Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: they can deal with you not coming tomorrow to their kitchen that's all tore up if you've let them know. But if it gets to be nine o'clock that next morning and you didn't tell you're just gonna be playing catch up from then on. So they can deal with a lot Kyle Hunt: Great example. It's a great example. Yeah. Darin: of things. Kyle Hunt: and if you've gone on your last 20 sales calls, your initial in person, how often is that our three uniques comes up come up? Hmm. Darin: Not enough? Yep. Kyle Hunt: Okay. But it the way I I've liked even several of the things you've mentioned of like, well, we have our three uniques. you know, we have our three things that we're looking for in a client. Three is your favorite number. I don't know if you knew that or not. Yeah. Darin: I guess, I don't know. Those are little more internal but I t I tell the c I tell the right customer sometime. If I feel like they're a good fit, Kyle Hunt: Yeah, yeah. But but even Darin: yeah. Kyle Hunt: right, we have we have a motto. You're talking in in clear of like, what the way you're describing it, I can see where you can train your team more clearly Darin: Ya. Kyle Hunt: on it. And and even that idea of you've got three uniques there. What a what a great three things to be talking about at every sales call. So whatever you need to remind yourself to bring that up. I think sometimes on sales we we get a little tired of saying the same thing over and over again. And I've told this story so many times, but the person that you're sitting cross has not heard it. So that's part of us as salespeople to really make sure we take a breath, set aside any kind of things that we've got going and just be a hundred percent focused when we are and putting our best foot forward, bringing our true A game when we're going to that home, which means there's certain things that when we share it, it builds no like and trust. It differentiates us. It makes us unique. And just to be in a good rhythm of of having a nice process for that, because those folks have never experienced it. And I think sometimes we just assume that they've they've heard it. All right. So that was a bunch of good stuff related to the client journey and the experience. Moving on to that second part of kind of how some unique things you're doing and trying and working on to enhance your company culture and just the experience that your employees have. where Darin: Mm. Kyle Hunt: do you want to start there, sir? Darin: I don't know. maybe the shout out because you mentioned you brought it up kind of that Kyle Hunt: Yes. Darin: when your I forget what example, but when your employees do that, make sure you're you're calling it out and and everything. So I I have a I have this stack. Let's see if I can grab it here. Sorry, Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: should have been a little more prepared Kyle Hunt: Sorry. Darin: here, but I have this whole stack of sticky notes. It says shout out like that one you have there, kudos to you, and you nailed it. So the guys in our in our L ten, we run off of EOS, so in our L ten weekly leadership team meeting, we have a specific spot in the agenda that is a time to call out kudos. And you gotta think about it. I mean you kinda forget and all that, yeah, I need to. Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: But so that's an example right there. So an employee, Denver, came to me probably about two weeks ago. And he said, Hey, I wanna call out or I wanna shout out Denver or Jesse for building this app that he built. So now our our mill shop can take their iPad and scan all the products that they're using. It goes right into the job. And he designed all that and built it. And he said, He mean he was on it, he got it done and we had a few changes. He was right on I like to shout him out. So I take a picture of that and then on the app that he also built, I I I text it out to the whole entire crew. And so and then I have this whole entire stack of of gift cards. They're just like ten, fifteen Kyle Hunt: It's awesome. Darin: dollar gift cards. Send out to everybody. And I try to pass these out like candy at company events and stuff. They're not huge, but it's just something to call out and appreciate That's right. Kyle Hunt: Yeah. And it's not it's not so much the amount, it's the it's the doing of it. now this one you sent over, it's a little it's a little blurry, where it came through, but I think we can read it. It says DK construction daily movement program. What's what do we got going here, Darren? Darin: Well, first this is right now it's just for the office crew. Kyle Hunt: Okay. Darin: I heard about another not a contractor that had done this and if if you i is it's done by quarters. And so the thought is is he he had kind of enacted a little bit because of people showing up late Kyle Hunt: Mm. Darin: and so he had a little bit of that, but We don't we don't ha we don't struggle with that, but it is easy to w come in maybe just a little bit late and you're just tired and and so if you can get up get up in the morning, on a work day is how it's supposed to really actually be, and you do fifteen minutes of some sort of exercise and still be at work on time, then you will get a six hundred four hundred dollar bonus, I think's how we have it. for the quarter if you s reached a certain amount of days. If your wife or your spouse also does it, you get an extra two hundred dollars. Kyle Hunt: my. Darin: And it's just enough it's just to create a little bit of a little bit of competition. but just get your mind I mean, it's not necessarily a weight loss program, but most of us in the office here are just sitting here most of the time. So I have found the biggest I I have not been hundred percent faithful at it. I did this morning, got up, ran, but It hits about two o'clock, just like probably everybody, but I real I figured out that that afternoon slump is a lot less when I'm getting up and doing something like that. So Kyle Hunt: And starting the day with that. Darin: starting the day with that and you're just your mind started and it yeah, it's great. So we haven't even went through a whole quarter yet. Kyle Hunt: And it good. So that so that Okay. And are people doing it, you think? Darin: I haven't questioned too much. Stacy told me yesterday she has not missed a day. So Kyle Hunt: Okay. Okay. It's gonna be a little bit of the honor system. Yeah. Darin: Definitely on our system. Yep. Nobody's checking you when you get here if you get if you made it on time or not. So Yeah, Jamin then wants Kyle Hunt: Okay. Okay. interesting. Darin: to roll it out to the rest of the whole crew, so another twenty people. We'll see how Kyle Hunt: Okay. Darin: that goes. Kyle Hunt: All right. So that one that one is that one. What else what else on the employee and the culture side have you been working on and thinking about? Darin: Probably I'm just thinking about just getting I I feel like we are finally crossing over the hump a little bit of getting a really good n I don't I would never say we've had a bad culture, but getting the culture good enough that people are recruiting for us. That's what I wanted to kind of go into just a little bit. And so Kyle Hunt: Yeah, yeah. Darin: we try there's a lot of people around here that a lot of other businesses and we're not looking to just take people from people. I'm not going to a lot of times call employees of people I know. But there our employees are friends with a lot of people and they they start reaching out and they start doing that. So on this particular one that you got pulled up right here, we wanted let's see here, a skilled person. We wanted we've hired a lot of, you eighteen year old right out of high school. Great. That's that's fine. But is as eager as they are, they just don't have the experience. So we wanted somebody twenty-three, twenty-four, five years old, that had a little bit of experience. So we're willing to pay five thousand dollars for that person. And it had been twenty five hundred and nobody had given me names and I bumped it up to five thousand and I got a call within a day or two. And it's not that they were waiting for more money. I think it just made them stop and pause and say, Okay, I I need to dig in. And we'd it's serious, Kyle Hunt: Yeah, this is this is serious here, yeah. Darin: yeah. And I mean five thousand dollars is a lot of money, but it's not Kyle Hunt: Yes. Darin: a lot when you think about a person that started last Monday. They've been in construction I don't know, I mean since they before they could drive probably with their dad. Seems like a great fit. So we're we're terrible happy about it. And so this has worked twice this year. We've had two excellent hires. Kyle Hunt: I like that. I like that phrase. I've never put those two words together. We are terribly happy about it. I think I'm gonna use that. but for those of you what listening on the audio, it says good people build great teams. Know a skilled carpenter, refer them to DK and earn a $5,000 bonus, paid in two parts: $2,500 when they start and $2,500 at six months if they're still here. so definitely get now. Should our existing team members already be recruiting on our behalf? Sure, but you know, sometimes That bonus and in a in a solid bonus like this, especially, will get them to think a little bit harder and a little bit deeper on it. And in the grand scheme of things, you find a really skilled carpenter that adds to your team that is worth tens of thousands of dollars there. Okay. Darin: It is. It is. Yeah. Kyle Hunt: there was a couple other miscellaneous ones that you sent over. One was this pardon our dust. that's something that you're consistently doing, almost walking around and delivering this to the neighbors around a a job. Darin: Yeah, I'd say our consistency can improve a little bit and then you have a job that's out in the country and you don't need it. But Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: yeah, we're trying to put these all around on people. So a little bit of a marketing as well as just showing a little respect to their property. so Kyle Hunt: Yep, I like that. And then this one looks like a sign that is being put up on your job sites to remind your team and your trade partners. Darin: That's correct. It sets right beside the DK construction sign, job site sign. this one's white, that one's blue, they're they're contrasting. They're this one's a little bit smaller. It's it's made not to compete with the DK sign. I think mostly we've been putting it by the sign at the road or at the street and sidewalk. Kyle Hunt: Mm. Darin: sometimes it might go more like where you're walking into the house, might be a little bit of a better spot for it. And yeah, we've it's n so none of this This wasn't I had a s I had a sub ask me last week, actually over the weekends, like, my man, you must really be having trouble. We're we must be pretty bad and man, you're telling us we gotta give you any extra profit and and he was just mouthing off and acting like we were we were pretty strict to work for. It's not because we had any trouble. We just wanted to make sure we as we grow, we are having to take on some new trade partners that we Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: maybe aren't as vetted yet as much and Almost as much as anything? I mean, what would you think if you this was your house and you had that sign setting there? How how would you feel like the people are going to take care of your house? Kyle Hunt: Yeah, they take it, they take it seriously. We have standards here. We're not fly by night. We're not going to just do whatever we want to do. There's some expectations here. Yeah. Darin: Yep. That's one of the biggest things that that I I I think it just shows them that we respect Kyle Hunt: Yeah. Darin: I I just tell our guys all the time, it's a job site for you, it's a home for them. Please remember that. Kyle Hunt: Yeah, that's good. and for if you're listening to the audio, this is a little sign that says, take note, you are entering a high expectation environment. This home is the pride and joy of the family who lives here. As a contractor, your role is essential to the success of the project. And it goes through a couple of job site requirements. Each subcontractor is fully responsible for their own cleanup. Boom, boom, boom. Respect those around you. Safety is a top priority. Protective measures required on finished surfaces. Doesn't mean that they're automatically going to read it every time, but But there's a better chance that they realize I'm on a DK site. This is a little bit different. Their expectations are a little bit stronger. I bet you even the electricians pick up their little electrician. Darin: Little no little nubbins that fall off there. I Kyle Hunt: They're little nubbins. Yeah. Darin: I d d you know, this did not just show up at job sites. we have vendor trade partner meetings. I let know before Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: it ever went out and kind of assured them that you know, none of you are doing bad. Surely we can all do a little better. that way it's not like Was he trying to tell me something? You know, I I wanted to Kyle Hunt: Yeah. Darin: make it known that we appreciate them and they're doing a good job. Kyle Hunt: Good. and speaking of meetings, last time we were talking, you were mentioning your your EOS implementer had you list out all of the meetings that you guys have, whether weekly or monthly or quarterly, list out who attends it and throw out this phrase keep, kill, combine, to to just evaluate all of the meetings. what is what's kind of been the experience of that, of going through that exercise? Darin: Well, the first thing it told us was, man, we got a lot of meetings scheduled. And we didn't feel like at this stage very many of could be completely killed. I think there's maybe one that got completely off. the biggest red flag was Darren's initials are in almost all of those. Kyle Hunt: Hm. Darin: That was the biggest red flag. And so we've I pulled myself out of some of them or tried to. Kyle Hunt: How does that feel? Darin: Little hard. Yeah. Kyle Hunt: Hmm. Darin: So and it'll get harder, but I you know, I don't it's just how it has to happen. Kyle Hunt: Why is it why is it hard? Darin: I'm just used to kind of being in the loop on at least everything. And Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: I think from an owner standpoint, maybe I I I I I need to at least have a pulse, but I don't have to know. I I'm starting to get to the point even in the last couple of weeks where I don't know where everybody is at. Like today on the job. What Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: what job are they actually at? I know about the job, but I don't know exactly where they went today and that's That's probably the biggest change. Now that I don't really tie back to the meetings, but I guess that just ties into letting go a little bit. Yeah, who does? Kyle Hunt: It ties into the meetings. Yeah. Yeah. And I think and and I have a tendency to sometimes do this of turn interviews into coaching calls. I apologize. But Darin: Mm. Kyle Hunt: let's but it's good, it's good for those listening. You have continued to grow the business, you've grown your team. And one of the hardest fit things in that is letting letting go of responsibilities, of truly empowering team members to take full responsibility for things, to go, you know what. I'm not even going to worry about that. Jesse is responsible for that. you know, we have our reporting mechanisms in place. I don't have to worry about that. And in the interest of making sure your capacity is reasonable, in the interest of you doing your highest and best work, which right now might be a lot of that sales work, or you know, in the interest of just flat out not feeling like you're always behind on things, oftentimes something has to give. And I think it's a wonderful exercise to say, you know what, we're gonna do something different. We're gonna kill that one meeting because I think it's a little redundant. It it's not totally negative, but it'll save us some time. We're gonna shorten up this meeting from an hour meeting to a 30-minute meeting, which means we got to prepare ahead of time and keep things tight. And I'm going to step back from those two meetings. Those two meetings are weekly meetings, and they take an hour each. That is two times fifty. That's a hundred hours of my time that I'm gonna trust my team to take on, which is gonna free me up to do other work. And while that's hard, I It's it the more you do it and the more you get used to it and the more you give room for your teams to step up and your team members to step up, the better, the better life is. You don't have to do that, by the way, Darren. You could go, you could keep doing what you're doing, or you could shrink your business. Then you might be able to keep your ta, you know, keep your hands and everything. I sometimes remind myself of that of like, hey, Kyle, if you don't like not knowing every little thing and nook and cranny, go back to when you were doing literally everything. And I'm like, no, no, no, I don't I don't want to do that. Darin: Yeah. Kyle Hunt: Right, so keep that in mind Darin: Yeah, no. Kyle Hunt: for for everybody listening. Darin: That's right. I I two other things I've done are I'm working on doing is is I make Tuesday today and so it works out good this is today is an admin day where I plan to do nothing job related, project related. And then also Monday is a no meeting day. So Stacy knows not to schedule anything for that day. I'm supposed to totally work on on project related type stuff that might need my attention. That's that's helped. I'm not I'm not completely there yet. There's stuff that comes in, but shut the phone off. Focus. Kyle Hunt: Yep. And you're set, yeah, you're setting yourself up for you're strategically setting yourself up for success there. otherwise, boy, our our time can just get get away from us. Darren, what I what I appreciate, I appreciate a lot about you as we've gotten to know you, but one thing you are you are feisty for implementation, you're feisty for trying things, you're seeking out knowledge, you're you you you take that customer confidence thing and you're like, let's make this around, let's try it, let's do it. And I I like that about you. Not that everything sits you know, is gonna stick forever. Not that, you know, you're not gonna iterate this, but success in business comes down to a lot of speed of implementation. And we're seeing we heard a bunch of d good ideas that hopefully everybody listening to this is like, you know what? I'm gonna swipe that idea. I'm gonna make that one my own. You know what they said that. That reminds me, I gotta double down on this thing that we talked about in training three months ago that we're really not doing. and I'm gonna get back to it. Practical stuff, proven practical, simple stuff and be an implementer like Darren. What's Darin: If if nothing else you'll figure out what don't work. Seriously. I mean, like Kyle Hunt: That's true. That's true. Darin: we tried and that don't work, let's do something else. Kyle Hunt: There go. So Darren, you got the final word. You got the final word. What do you want to do you wanna say? Hey, if you didn't hear anything else in this episode, I wanna remind you of this, or maybe you have one more final idea that's coming to your mind. Hey, by the way, you Darin: I have one call. Kyle Hunt: said you said earlier you said earlier that you're feeling old. Why are you feeling old? Darin: I'm getting grayer is one thing. Kyle Hunt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Darin: And the other thing is a daughter first daughter getting married is what you're referring to. Sure, go ahead and share it. She'll love it. Kyle Hunt: can I share can I sh can I click on that picture? look, look at that. look at that happy couple. They're engaged. Wow. And this is your oldest daughter, so this is uncharted territory for you and your wife. Darin: Just last weekend. Yep. So that isn't my oldest daughter. Yep. Kyle Hunt: 919. It's coming up, folks. Darin: Not very far away. Kyle Hunt: It's coming up. He said, I'm feeling older and poorer already. Yeah, and I'm like, hey. Hey. Darin: Yeah, definitely poor, but that's right. Kyle Hunt: It is what it what better what better thing to spend money on than a beautiful wedding for your daughter. That's right. Cool. But okay, so they're there that's why you're feeling older. Darin: That's right. Yep. That's right. final word. just back to maybe to the customer client experience. I was reminded as we were talking there that I have a quote sitting right up here on my th on my board that is from J C Penny. And maybe you've heard this quote before. But it says it is the service we are not obliged to give that people value most. So picking up that package, sweeping off the walk are all things that Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: they did not sign on the line for, they didn't buy, they didn't purchase it. but we're giving it anyway and that's and they value that. Th the the work Kyle Hunt: Little extra, that little extra. Darin: yeah, the work is the quality of work I think if they're hiring DK anyway, and and should be with a lot of builders, is expected. But what's not expected is the hopefully the friendship maybe that they have gained from us. Kyle Hunt: Mm-hmm. Darin: And also just the other the the the little perks that have made the Yep. Kyle Hunt: Yeah, the little the little intangibles. Yeah, they go above and down. That's how we differentiate ourselves. all right, I get the final word. I spent a lot of a lot of time at JC Penny growing up. My mother's name is Penny. no Darin: No verdad. Kyle Hunt: relation to J C Penny. but she'd love to go to JC Penny's and loved to go to Coles. another thing that she would love to buy things at Kohl's and say, you know, I only spent forty two dollars of this, but I got eight hundred and seventy two dollars of discounts. And I I seem I seem to have the the same same trait as hers of like, you I got I save forty dollars on this. It's exciting info to share. Darin: I probably could do well to have a little bit more of that trait. Kyle Hunt: Yes, mister San Pellegrino, mister we n what Darin: It Kyle Hunt: we need that new tool. Darin: it's Coles and J C B I don't even know. I are they still J C are they still a business? Kyle Hunt: Kohl's is still going strong. JCPenney, I think they're still, I think this is what JCPenney's doing. I'm st I'm st I still am alive, but barely. Darin: Yeah. Gasping. Kyle Hunt: Kohl's. Interesting. For some reason, my 12-year-old, soon-to 13-year-old daughter likes Kohl's. She finds a lot of clothes in there. So we've found our way into there a decent amount. I thought it interesting. I've done this a couple of times where I'm making a return to Amit for Amazon, and Amazon and Kohl's have partnered up where you're you can do your returns in Kohl's. I thought was kind of interesting from a business strategy standpoint of all right, how do we just get people in here? And I went to do the do the return. And what did the Coles Associate give me? A coupon that I could use that day in the store if Darin: Yeah, cool. Kyle Hunt: I don't run back out with it. so interesting in this day and age of all right, here's a department store that's not super strong. How do we get people in the doors? I thought that was kind of creative. Yeah. Apply that to your remodeling business somehow, folks. Darin: Interesting strategy, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I'm trying to think how to, yeah. Kyle Hunt: You know what you should do is you should go catch up on those estimates, is what should do. Stop dreaming about your next improvement. Thank you so much for your time today, Darren. That was great. Darin: Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah, thank you, Carl. Kyle Hunt: Appreciate your willingness to share. and we'll talk again soon. Thank you. Darin: Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you. Kyle Hunt: Thanks for tuning into the Remodelers on the Rise show. Whether you're listening or watching, I appreciate you being here. If this was helpful, make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss the next one. We're putting out new episodes every single week focused on helping you build a better remodeling business with real stories, practical ideas, and things you can actually take and use. If you're on YouTube, hit that like button and turn on notifications so you know when new episodes drop. If you're listening on a podcast app, a five-star review goes a long way and helps more remodelers find the show. We've got great links below or in the show notes where you can connect with us, check out our remodelers community and learn more about our coaching and resources. Appreciate you very much. See you on the next episode.