Latest / Autoras de palabra con Rosa / La autora Rosario Raro: "Martha Gellhorn sufrió la censura de Hemingway, su marido, quien no soportaba el segundo plano"

Transcript

La autora Rosario Raro: "Martha Gellhorn sufrió la censura de Hemingway, su marido, quien no soportaba el segundo plano" · Autoras de palabra con Rosa

0:05
A burst of machine gun hit the line of soldiers on the right side of
0:09
the boat. Before they were able to land, Marta took the first photograph
0:14
of those who fell into the sea without stepping on the sand. Then she
0:18
lay down as if death were only able to pass over her until she was
0:23
rewarded for landing with the others banned in Norman. Rosario rare in authors of
0:31
word, with Rosa we open the book, interviews and the Verte at last.
0:37
So welcome to Rosa, thanks to you a pleasure, we opened with
0:42
that landing. But until she got there, Marta had to pass many things,
0:50
many dangers, many prohibitions. Tell me a little bit, then look
0:54
at the one front. As you say, it was not the war,
0:59
but it was also a struggle against prejudice, against the opposition of the entire
1:06
military establishment, because they did not allow the reporters to be credited for simply
1:12
being women. I think there was a consideration behind that that they didn'
1:19
t want the landing to be thought of as a child' s play or
1:25
even worse as a woman' s play. And then, the third front
1:29
she had to fight was the lack of support from her very famous husband,
1:34
from Hemingüe, with whom she was married only five years. She considered it
1:40
a parenthesis, but of course, she no doubt overshadowed it because she not
1:47
only had the journalistic side, but also the literary side. It is true
1:52
that during the civil war, she did encourage her to write her chronicles.
1:59
He told her to tell people' s lives on foot, but she couldn
2:04
' t stand anyone shadowing her. That is, while the other reporters and
2:08
others danced the water, everything went very well and clear and to get to
2:15
Normandy, the perpecias were tremendous. She was very close to Roaldan, who
2:22
then, twenty years later published Charle The Chocolate Factory, the author of Matilde
2:27
and so many works of children' s and youth literature, and he was
2:32
then the air attaché in Washington and told him that he could not take a
2:38
flight to Europe, because they knew that he would then stop us there.
2:42
And then he had to go on a Norwegian freighter, because all he found
2:46
was the only passenger among the others was the crew, all sailors arrived in
2:54
London. There he was at the Dorchester, which was where all the agencies
2:59
were, all the press that foreigner. Some did not separate themselves from those
3:04
of Kiris and other Copels while the landing took place and she stopped at nothing.
3:10
She reached the southern shores of England, first to Dover, then to
3:15
one of the ports from which the ships and the boats departed. He even
3:22
had to cross the Channel like a stowaway. I mean, she just wanted
3:27
to do her profession, get her interviewed, let her do a chronicle,
3:32
and she had to gamble her life many times. Then he went down into
3:39
the sand of Norman. In addition, the fact that she went down to
3:44
the literal arena, in this case, because she was dressed as a waiter
3:50
and then, as a result, she was arrested because of course she had
3:57
participated in a war action without being accredited, and that is a crime.
3:58
So, I think she' s an admirable woman and a figure to be
4:03
rescued. Yeah, then this tour you' ve done. We' re
4:06
talking about Marta gel Bake. I like a good one. I like everything
4:11
you' ve described right now and what' s in this woman' s
4:14
book, a woman who was very clear about what her goal was I'
4:17
m not going to say, but what she wanted to do, because the
4:20
truth is I' m what' s going on, yes and she didn
4:27
' t mind overcoming all the obstacles that put her, not the ones that
4:30
she found, but the ones that she put on. Before being exact and,
4:31
for example, what you tell about the ship, when you talk about
4:36
that freighter, not how they laughed at it. I like to talk about
4:43
this because she did something is very current. Of course, we still put
4:50
up with that laugh or that malicious one. Indeed, in any situation where
4:57
their place is threatened. But something changed on that ship to start respecting it.
5:06
And I think it' s important to review. Yeah,' cause,
5:10
of course, as you say, she didn' t take them as
5:15
seriously as reporters that her classmates were playing in life the same way. And
5:20
then I think that what changed on that ship, that Marta had already done
5:26
in the Spanish War, was that she approached those people, because I believe
5:32
that this of the mockery and of the none has a pretty gregarious component.
5:39
Then people one by one who are usually more affable and do not let themselves
5:46
be carried away by that general current. And then she already had the precedent
5:53
that she had made an absolutely catastrophic chronicle of the state in which she had
6:00
remained from the United States. After the crash of the 29th he published it
6:03
in France. It was called because it could be translated as American disaster or
6:13
disaster, and that served him to meet Elan Roosevelt. They became very friendly
6:20
and then, of course, if we put ourselves in the context of a
6:25
thousand nine hundred and forty- four, we have to be aware of how
6:32
these women were, of not being intimate, of overcoming one obstacle after another
6:38
and, as you said, being very clear where they were headed. No,
6:40
because that says that when you know which ports you' re headed for,
6:47
the winds tend to help. You said she literally set foot in the
6:51
sand. However, Hemingway, what he did was tell it from a place
6:57
totally foreign to what it was before. He landed clear. She called her
7:02
colleagues who invented the apocryphologists and I really liked the word to see apocryphologists that
7:11
they did, it' s that I have to think first of apocryphs and
7:17
then of course many had a great capacity for inventiveness. And then it'
7:28
s undocumented that the Hemingway was on the beaches. Looks like he was on
7:34
one of the ships that approached the Normandy. He did not go down to
7:41
France, but then, instead, he was given a medal that, if
7:47
we read this text that is said when a prize is awarded, does not
7:53
exactly match the description of what Mazag the young man did. Then, of
7:57
course, she also had to fight to keep her character from being bitter because
8:03
it was one after another not and then she had to stay as incolume.
8:11
They do say that when he got to Holiers, they handed him the latest
8:16
issues of the magazine. He saw that his signature was nowhere to be found.
8:20
He stepped on them, but, well, he was also entitled to
8:24
obrea or minimal. No. That was a little relief. Yeah, for
8:26
what he was saying, I don' t think we' re going with
8:31
his roots, with his mother Etnazisel. He did fight from the committee he
8:35
was chairing to get the clinics to be free and also to reduce the smoke
8:39
from the factories. I mean, she, she was moving. She,
8:41
too, let' s say that she lived that, too. Yeah,
8:46
to see her mother now, we' d call her an activist. Moreover,
8:52
this woman was involved in many causes that you have said, but also
8:58
with her husband, they were one of the great fighters against racism that in
9:07
St Louis was deeply rooted. Her husband, Martha' s father, was
9:13
the first gynaecologist in St Louis, which is a very large city that treated
9:18
black patients. So I' m clear about the whole issue of child exploitation.
9:24
Then, during the Democratic Party Convention in one thousand nine hundred and sixteen,
9:33
because Marta was eight years old, because thousands of women did, as
9:39
we call them, a walk, they wore umbrellas, yellows and fajines of
9:45
the same color and that was called the golden alley. Then it was to
9:48
ask for the vote for women. I believe that, as you say to
9:52
Martha, she assumed her mental configuration, because she, somehow the choice she
10:01
learned from her parents, is that constancy, perseverance, everything conquers, because
10:09
of course she saw that three years later the vote for women was approved.
10:16
Then I think she couldn' t have another character. Then there was another
10:22
question. She was the daughter and granddaughter of German Jews. Of course that
10:30
was why his parents were in San Luis. His father felt Hitler as a
10:33
personal insult. They went to the Opera House that there is a very large
10:37
Opera House in St Louis and they ate sausages in the box, that is,
10:43
it was like they had taken Germany there. Then there is a terrible
10:48
question about this issue of nationalities, which we have been able to see these
10:54
days in Normandy, and that among American soldiers die or disappear, there are
11:03
many of them in animal surnames. That is, they are the children of
11:07
first generation immigrants who, if their parents had not gone to the new continent,
11:13
would have been shooting at the other side. And that gives us an
11:16
idea of how absurd the wars of any war are. Not of course,
11:20
then, to carve against misogyny, there is a letter in which they ask
11:24
to be allowed to accredit themselves to go to the south of England, then
11:28
to France, what we said at the beginning and tell firsthand what was happening,
11:33
a letter that I have read carefully not risked. I' ve felt
11:39
identified, but above all it seems amazing to me today, that is,
11:46
I' m amazed that the outside was eighty years ago and the strength there
11:52
is in that letter, that is, the bluntness of knowing what you really
11:56
want as you want it. And already, it is clear that there are
12:00
other questions that they comment and I think we are still there, like in
12:09
the professions, we are referred to by the name you are pink I am
12:15
rosary and to our companions by the surname. And that' s very significant.
12:20
Or then also the analysis they make that in the dialogues of a novel,
12:28
a film, a play, a man interrupts another man interrupts a woman,
12:31
but a woman never interrupts a man, because if it is not already
12:35
the decisive moment and the catastrophe is already triggered. And then, then,
12:43
the comments about the physique that if the blonde and other more anatomical issues and
12:50
called her the blonde danger, And I eat if then, when he went
12:56
the other way around her, a fellow editor pointed a revolver at her because,
13:01
according to him, he had stepped on an exclusive when it wasn'
13:07
t exactly like that, but the other one couldn' t stand that he
13:11
was going to give the news before he didn' t. Then, of
13:13
course, it is a struggle against that consideration that the gender trait is definitive
13:20
and responds to a series of characteristics and, moreover, you always point to
13:28
the woman, it is always something of the daughter, of the woman,
13:31
of the sister, of because she also had brothers. She was the only
13:35
girl, and that' s one thing. Well, I' m curious.
13:39
I am of that blow, but I live in Castellón and march to
13:43
gle Hort along with Ernes Hemingwa and was in Meikasis. Then, in the
13:50
journalistic chronicles and so on, what she hated so much happened. I mean,
13:54
they said that Mr Hemingway had been accompanied by one of their wives,
14:00
that is, as if he were a network of simultaneous women, or already
14:07
anticipated that he was going to pass on to the story of that marriage and
14:13
then in other media he picked up as if they alluded to her as the
14:20
accompanying blonde, and then it was what she always wanted to fight against.
14:24
That is to say, of course, each person has his or her own
14:28
entity. No one can decide solely to be the sister' s daughter but
14:33
it' s like that' s how she dispatches and it' s happened
14:37
to me when I told about what I was writing that I said yes,
14:41
it' s that she was one of the greatest war correspondents of the 20th
14:46
century and she told me that she was Hemy Way' s wife. It
14:48
is already clear and you say well, because I have needed more than four
14:54
hundred and fifty pages to tell that it was much more than that. No
14:58
more marta women with Ruth were the favourites of Elena Rosevent Yes, the first
15:05
lady of the United States, highlights her work and tries to reduce inequality and
15:09
injustices. Another important part also reflected in this story. Yes, I believe
15:15
that Neanor Roosevelt' s work is not so little recognized because she, like,
15:22
formed an administration parallel to that of her husband and was above all very
15:28
concerned about social issues. The country was shattered because, of course, to
15:37
the great depression. Then came the entry of the country into the war,
15:43
with the thousands and thousands and thousands of casualties in the media, because,
15:48
of course, there is always a struggle, the media create wars, sometimes
15:54
even instigate them, and then, in some way, she was like the
16:03
social president, to put it in some way. And then too, because
16:11
he wanted above all that he invited Marza to the White House to tell him
16:18
first hand what he had seen, because for the young people to continue enlisting
16:22
that this was also something that we saw in Normandy to read the dates that
16:29
many were children. We are talking about soldiers of eighteen or nineteen, twenty
16:34
years who paid very good with their inexperience with life, had hardly been trained
16:42
and clear and then, to continue to present themselves volunteers, the information leaked
16:52
a lot. A john Ford film that recorded the Jin situ on the day
16:56
of the landing disappeared. I could only rescue 20 minutes. But it'
17:03
s terrible. I mean, it' s like saving the stripe soldier but
17:10
shot simultaneously when the facts were happening and they didn' t want that material
17:15
to be seen there because Omaja ended up calling himself the bloody one or more.
17:21
There is one, I don' t know if a chapter, but
17:26
you reflect precisely that they were children that moment with Marta who say if it
17:30
' s a child. Yeah. Moreover, she repeated it a lot that
17:34
she said that all the soldiers had the disabled appearance of orphanage children, whom
17:41
no one seemed to have given a hug to. That was the way to
17:45
describe marza that gives chills. Not because I think he' s a completely
17:49
empathetic person. He suffers for the others. It doesn' t get in
17:56
that place and I wanted the novel not to be a song stung the allies.
18:00
Not because there were also its shadows, such as the bombing of the
18:08
French civilian population, in which more than thirty zero people died, but not
18:15
by the German army, but by the airmen, that is, the American
18:19
air force and the British RAF. Then of course it is like saying,
18:32
there is no exaltation, because when there in normal day you see the Ocean
18:42
of Crosses, it never ends. Plus, they' re all looking to
18:47
America. It' s like I knew the other day in the group that
18:52
we were going to get in there was going to overwhelm us, because I
18:57
had already been during the two- document phase. And it' s tremendous
19:03
to see all those guys who came from so far just to die, to
19:08
die, and many didn' t even know where they died, because so
19:12
they wouldn' t leak information into the maps were the names changed, they
19:18
didn' t even know where they were. Then, of course, it
19:22
is tremendous and above all, I was interested in telling it also from the
19:27
German point of view and because there are several scenes that are told from the
19:34
machine gun nest. Yes, and then of course the German soldiers who are
19:38
there, who think the others are like them, who only changes the uniform,
19:44
who think that of the entire Atlantic wall, which went from practically the
19:49
south of France to the Bay of Biscay to Norway, which had to touch
19:55
them. And of course, when they see the whole fleet facing the greatest
20:00
of all, the whole history of humanity, then I wanted to reflect also
20:04
the fear of the soldiers. Not that it was the opposite of that cliché
20:07
and the social type of the brave soldier, because it was not like that
20:14
at all. Then there are two scenes that I have been moved by every
20:18
time I have had to correct them, which have been about fifteen times,
20:22
because I am very obsessive writing said Marta gel Jorge. It' s like
20:26
writing that way, it' s like chewing cement and it seems like an
20:32
unbeatable image to me, because that' s what happens to me. And
20:33
then there are two letters from the respective ministry that tell parents in Germany that
20:41
their son has died in the war action and at the same time the letter
20:45
arrives in a house in the middle of the Maizales, in the middle of
20:51
the American East. And of course, the two families I have written that
20:56
at that moment they lose their souls. Supposedly, then every person who got
21:00
off those boats, many of them didn' t even touch the sand when
21:04
they were killed, killed their families because they were boyfriends, children, brothers,
21:08
parents. But we' re still in the same place in history.
21:12
No, it' s true. When you meet Marta, then Mira,
21:18
I had references to her and it was especially when I started to investigate the
21:25
issue of the army or ghost, that I found it exciting to have a
21:30
Hollywood dish assembled as a way of overproduction, but well, a superproduction of
21:37
these of the golden era in Dover to make them believe the Germans who were
21:44
going to cross from there, that is to say Dover Akalet, that there
21:48
are just over twenty kilometers, while where they landed there are more than one
21:53
hundred good, the figures are approximate because, as I have read, both
21:57
in miles and kilometers, but that they are more or less five times longer
22:02
at the distance where they entered six hours of navigation. And then I was
22:07
very interested in the relationship between cinema and World War II, on the one
22:14
hand, because everything they set up there was a hard job. The inflatable
22:19
tanks, the camps from which smoke came out of the tents as if the
22:26
soldiers were preparing the food. There came empty trains and trains, showing that
22:30
they were transporting troops and everything, from ports, gasoline cans, bridges.
22:38
Everything was false and it was for the Germans to look over there as they
22:45
entered the other side. And I was very interested, because, for example,
22:48
one of the protagonists is given the in fervance son, who was a
22:52
very attractive person, also very joker. I' ve met a lot of
22:56
characters, because the war is so terrible that they have to joke, they
23:02
have to release tension anyway. But, well, there was Glenford, there
23:07
was David Niven, Peter Ustinov, there were a lot of actors, but
23:14
as military. Then there were the entertainment service. And then there' s
23:19
another question related to cinema, and it' s that Hitler' s cinemaphilia
23:26
assumed that he' ll find out very late on the landing, because he
23:33
was in the Eagle' s nest, there, in the Alps. He
23:34
knew that Germany had already lost the war. He felt a little like the
23:40
Dutchman' s protagonist from now on and that was like the ship full of
23:45
dead. Not anymore and then he said that Germany’ s glorious destiny would
23:52
lead him to triumph or perish that there was no middle ground. So,
23:55
every night I watched a movie and it wasn' t the UFF, it
24:00
wasn' t the ones that produced in Germany or the propaganda ones, but
24:06
that was a fact that hit me a lot. He watched films by Worlt
24:11
Disney, liked King Kong a lot, and then the role- playing swordsmen
24:15
and clairvoyant Babol and all that. And then that night, the dawn of
24:22
the five to the six of June of the forty- four, lay down
24:26
at almost four o' clock in the morning, the landing, more or
24:32
less, first the paratroopers jumped behind the German lines, but began to set
24:34
off. From six o' clock on, no one dared wake him up.
24:38
And then, when he dawned, he almost always had breakfast at midnight
24:45
in the morning and we' re talking about Central European times, which is
24:48
lunchtime. I was looking at the papers. And then, of course,
24:55
when he woke up, because the phones of the German officers, France,
25:02
in the north of Europe and so on had already started to ring, because
25:07
of course they didn' t want to wake him up thinking that it could
25:12
be another diversionary maneuver and that the great advance was going to be crossing the
25:18
channel through Cai and clear when they saw everything that came over them, because
25:22
Romer no longer knew where to put the tanks, and that helped and the
25:26
victims would have been even more without the cinema. At the movies. Of
25:27
course, that part of you was clearly amazed by the importance of his hobby
25:33
and also invited Gebs because, among other things, he was a doctor in
25:40
art history and then he was very interested in the contributions he made in the
25:45
Forum cinema. Later, there was also the official photographer Hoffman, who didn
25:56
' t get his last name. And then it is clear that he was
26:02
surrounded by these hidden people because he was interested, because that analysis and good
26:08
again to the paradox of the sensibility for art and the sensitivity for the victims.
26:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Marta managed to write the chronicle, although
26:21
it was not published until a few months later and, moreover, not textually
26:25
what she had written exactly. In other words, the chronicle was very mutilated.
26:32
She threatened to report them to Collie magazine, but they told her that,
26:37
as she was not professionally accredited, there was no clear and good link.
26:42
In the end, to keep her quiet they took out a very brief
26:48
note and the title was very offensive, because someone said that he was there,
26:53
that is, he questioned the most sacred of his profession. And then
27:00
what he had to do was about fifteen years later. I mean, we
27:06
' re talking about a thousand nine hundred and fifty- nine self- published
27:12
her chronicles because of course, she' d been accumulating a lot of material
27:18
during those years and they still didn' t publish it. There is also
27:19
rumor that there was a black hand that started by h not then. Of
27:27
course it was like saying no and of course, the Femingüay had a lot
27:33
of power. Yes, because it was, well, as we would say
27:38
now, not a brand image. It was the forgiveness exactly, it was
27:42
not the most prestigious, it had the best reputation and it was like the
27:49
one that represented the American spirit, for forbidden in Norman pleasure because the same
27:56
thing. My friend Rosa, thank you very much, I liked our conversation
28:00
very much. But yes, the truth is, yes. I' m glad.