Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #876 Failed at School, Successful at Life: Cam Barber

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#876 Failed at School, Successful at Life: Cam Barber · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:07
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers now. All this
0:10
Speaker 1: week on the Happy Families Podcast, we are talking about
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Speaker 1: the importance of education, but how education differs depending on
0:16
Speaker 1: your child. At the moment, around the nation U twelve
0:19
Speaker 1: students are sitting their final exams, or they're about too,
0:23
Speaker 1: or they've just finished. It's one of those times where
0:25
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stress and a lot of families.
0:27
Speaker 1: But even if your kids aren't in year twelve, these
0:29
Speaker 1: conversations matter because education matters to us all. My guest
0:34
Speaker 1: today is Cam Barber. Cam started as a public speaking
0:39
Speaker 1: coach who broadened his approach to leadership skills and marketing messages.
0:45
Speaker 1: His clients include Paramount Pictures and the Hawthorne Football Club.
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Speaker 1: He wrote the best selling book What's Your Message? And
0:53
Speaker 1: this is why I wanted to talk to Cam? Because
0:55
Speaker 1: Cam only attended one day of university that became recognized
1:02
Speaker 1: globally as an expert in his field. His current passion
1:05
Speaker 1: is something else that's very did in my heart, that
1:07
Speaker 1: is parenting messages, and Cam argues that parenting skills are
1:10
Speaker 1: a bit like leadership skills. I've had the same thought
1:12
Speaker 1: and had the same conversation with plenty of CEOs. So
1:15
Speaker 1: today we're going to talk about the messages that we're
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Speaker 1: delivering to our children that develop their initiative, their character,
1:19
Speaker 1: and their thinking skills, especially when it comes to their education.
1:23
Speaker 1: Cam Barba, thank you for joining me on the Happy
1:25
Speaker 1: Families podcast. I'm thrilled to have you here.
1:28
Speaker 2: It is a pleasure. Cam.
1:29
Speaker 1: Let's start with your background. I'm fascinated by what sort
1:32
Speaker 1: of a student you were as you were going through school,
1:36
Speaker 1: and we've got to talk about this this first day
1:39
Speaker 1: of university drop out. But you've got a son, and
1:43
Speaker 1: i'd love to know how that's affected the way that
1:46
Speaker 1: you engage with your son around his education. I know
1:48
Speaker 1: that's three questions in one, terrible interviewing skills, but my
1:52
Speaker 1: sense is there's a good story here.
1:54
Speaker 2: All right, let's go. I was a pretty good student
1:57
Speaker 2: until about twelve or thirteen when home work became a
2:01
Speaker 2: big thing. I wasn't very self disciplined, and it got
2:06
Speaker 2: worse and worse. So as high school progressed, I became
2:10
Speaker 2: a worse student and I used to get stressed, very
2:14
Speaker 2: stressed about I'd look at my homework, I'd open it
2:17
Speaker 2: up and put it on the kitchen table, and then
2:19
Speaker 2: I'd stress about, you know, doing it and so on.
2:23
Speaker 2: So I actually was saved from high school by becoming
2:28
Speaker 2: an exchange student to Sweden. So halfway through Form four,
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Speaker 2: Form five, halfway through whatever you want to call it,
2:38
Speaker 2: Grade eleven, halfway through grade eleven, I left and did
2:42
Speaker 2: a year in Sweden as an exchange student. And I'll
2:47
Speaker 2: tell you a further story about that in a moment
2:49
Speaker 2: when we talk about messages, because I got my own
2:52
Speaker 2: sponsorship money for that based on a message my dad
2:55
Speaker 2: gave me. But the deal was that when I after
2:58
Speaker 2: I got that sponsorship money from a Swedish company, I
3:01
Speaker 2: had to work for them for six months to pay
3:03
Speaker 2: it back. So I got some work experience, and then
3:06
Speaker 2: I went back and did what was called a tertiary
3:09
Speaker 2: orientation program, which was an equivalency done at at a university,
3:14
Speaker 2: but it was a tafe course I got into. I
3:19
Speaker 2: got accepted into my double degree marketing psychology course. I
3:22
Speaker 2: went into defer it because my dad had asked me
3:25
Speaker 2: to join him help him with his business. So I
3:28
Speaker 2: went into university for one day I deferred and then
3:32
Speaker 2: I never went back.
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Speaker 1: Listen to that story. I'm certain that so many parents
3:36
Speaker 1: will respond with nods of affirmation as certainly as my
3:40
Speaker 1: story as well. I was a really good student in
3:43
Speaker 1: primary school, hit high school, like you said, twelve or
3:45
Speaker 1: thirteen years of age, and something happened and the bottom
3:49
Speaker 1: just fell out, and from that point on there was
3:52
Speaker 1: no salvaging my educational career. For one of a better word,
3:57
Speaker 1: it was just diabolical law. And I finished strade twelve
4:00
Speaker 1: with another fifteen and a star next to it, meaning
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Speaker 1: I s got him the bottom fifteen percent of New
4:05
Speaker 1: South Wales. They wouldn't tell me what number it was.
4:06
Speaker 1: The star just says you did badly. Fifteen is the
4:09
Speaker 1: lowest number we offer. So you've gone and done this
4:14
Speaker 1: university day. And then what happened? You went and helped
4:18
Speaker 1: dad at work.
4:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he had started a business a year before
4:23
Speaker 2: and he was struggling, and over the summer period I
4:27
Speaker 2: went and did some work for him to help him
4:28
Speaker 2: get organized. And not that I was organized, but you
4:30
Speaker 2: know I was another person to help.
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Speaker 1: Pair of hands, yeah, in other pair of hands.
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Speaker 2: Well, actually I had one thing. He had all these notes,
4:37
Speaker 2: all these notes in these little notebooks, exercise books, and
4:41
Speaker 2: he'd say, oh, we've got some peakments. He was in
4:45
Speaker 2: the coloring concrete business, and he said, we've got some
4:48
Speaker 2: such and such and then he'd I go, what do
4:50
Speaker 2: you mean? And he'd search around for an exercise book,
4:54
Speaker 2: and I said, what about a filecard system? You know?
4:57
Speaker 2: So anyway, he thought that was great and that I
4:59
Speaker 2: was really helping him get organized. And he said, in fact,
5:03
Speaker 2: and this is the power that he had over me,
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Speaker 2: he touched me on the should a very tall man,
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Speaker 2: big huge hand still to this day, and he sort
5:09
Speaker 2: of looked up into the sky. There was nothing there,
5:11
Speaker 2: but we were looking up together, and he said, join
5:14
Speaker 2: me in the business camp, and I went great. My
5:18
Speaker 2: mum never forgave him though, because you know, I was
5:21
Speaker 2: supposed to go to university. But what ended up happening
5:24
Speaker 2: after I left after two years with him, and I
5:27
Speaker 2: realized that I learned how to run a business, and
5:31
Speaker 2: in those areas, I'd learned how to sell, I'd learned
5:34
Speaker 2: how to read a balance sheet, I'd spoken to the accountant,
5:37
Speaker 2: so I've done the taxes. I thought, I don't need
5:41
Speaker 2: to go back to school. I'm actually ready to go
5:44
Speaker 2: and I started my own business from that point.
5:47
Speaker 1: Wow, what does that do for you in terms of
5:50
Speaker 1: the way you look at education. You're raising a son
5:53
Speaker 1: who is at the point end of education, right, he's eighteen.
5:58
Speaker 1: My educational experience has had dramatic impact on the messages
6:02
Speaker 1: that I give my kids about the value of education
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Speaker 1: and how education works.
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Speaker 2: So that's part of your three part question. Was you know,
6:09
Speaker 2: how is this related to so sorry, yeah, bring up
6:12
Speaker 2: my son. No, No, it's very valid because there are
6:16
Speaker 2: different ways to look at it. And I hoped at
6:20
Speaker 2: one point, I hope that I could sort of off
6:23
Speaker 2: load my parenting to the school and particularly around high
6:28
Speaker 2: school age, and that did not work. The absolute opposite happened. So, so,
6:34
Speaker 2: my son, James is gifted and challenged. Now, he's gifted
6:38
Speaker 2: in the sense that he has perfect pitch. He played,
6:42
Speaker 2: He's played violence and tea was for he taught himself
6:45
Speaker 2: to play piano because he went and saw the queen
6:47
Speaker 2: movie Bohemian Rhapsody, and he watched YouTube videos and taught
6:51
Speaker 2: himself to play piano. Well, right, so he's gifted and
6:54
Speaker 2: a lot of people go, oh, he must be good
6:55
Speaker 2: at maths, because no, here's where he's challenged, and every
7:00
Speaker 2: teacher he has frustrated, every single teacher, he drives them nuts. So,
7:07
Speaker 2: for example, one of the teachers came to when he
7:09
Speaker 2: was I don't know, five or six years old, and
7:12
Speaker 2: they all have this look on their face. Mister Barber,
7:16
Speaker 2: I need to talk to you about your son. And
7:20
Speaker 2: she said, he can't draw a straight line. And I said,
7:24
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? And she goes if she
7:27
Speaker 2: tried to explain it to me, and I got little James,
7:29
Speaker 2: a cute little kiddie look up at me. I go, mate,
7:32
Speaker 2: what's wrong? Why can't you draw Australia? And goes, I
7:34
Speaker 2: don't know. They confuse me, And I said, but she
7:36
Speaker 2: gives you a ruler. She's given you a ruler so
7:39
Speaker 2: you can draw the straight line. And the poor little
7:41
Speaker 2: adorable kid said, but if I moved my hand, the
7:44
Speaker 2: rule of moves. I don't know. Can you understand as
7:47
Speaker 2: a parent this is how he worked. I'll tell you
7:50
Speaker 2: another one. When he was in kindergarten, he had a
7:53
Speaker 2: French teacher French class, and she had the same thing.
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Speaker 2: She was always saying, James, I don't understand James. I
8:00
Speaker 2: think he's lying to me. And so that the exercise
8:04
Speaker 2: for the day was you call your dad dad, but
8:09
Speaker 2: what's his actual name, you know, and all the other
8:11
Speaker 2: kids going, oh, Joe, Ralph and James said I don't know,
8:16
Speaker 2: and she said, well, James, I don't believe you a couple.
8:20
Speaker 2: And it was this butting heads all day long, and
8:24
Speaker 2: at the end of the day she came to me,
8:25
Speaker 2: she said, I must talk to you about James. And
8:28
Speaker 2: here's this gorgeous little kid looking up at these two
8:30
Speaker 2: adults talking about him, and she said, you know, I'm
8:35
Speaker 2: sure he knows your name. Why wouldn't he participate in class?
8:38
Speaker 2: And I looked down at him and I said, you
8:40
Speaker 2: know what my name is, don't you? And he goes, yeah,
8:42
Speaker 2: but not in French.
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Speaker 1: I love this. I love this. Your stories would be
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Speaker 1: resonating with so many parents who are absolutely tearing their
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Speaker 1: hair out with the way their kid's doing at school,
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Speaker 1: Like school could be a really confusing place for them,
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Speaker 1: really really confusing place.
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Speaker 2: Well, he in primary school for the last two years
9:03
Speaker 2: of primary school. He had the same teacher and they
9:05
Speaker 2: were in the same classroom all day long. And he
9:08
Speaker 2: is charming. He's a charming kid. He learned that he
9:11
Speaker 2: wasn't good at certain things, but he could make people laugh,
9:14
Speaker 2: and so he said, I'll just make them laugh and
9:16
Speaker 2: they'll let me off. They'll let me and that's what happened.
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Speaker 2: She thought he was so charming she led him out
9:21
Speaker 2: of homework. So anyway, he was kind of cruising, thinking, oh, no,
9:26
Speaker 2: I've got life worked out. Then he goes to high
9:28
Speaker 2: school and they say, you're in all sorts of different rooms,
9:33
Speaker 2: You've got all sorts of different teachers. Here's a computer
9:36
Speaker 2: that you've never used before, and five different apps that
9:39
Speaker 2: you have to use to navigate your classes. And what
9:43
Speaker 2: he did was he went sure, and he never even
9:46
Speaker 2: opened it, and he just lied to everybody. And so
9:50
Speaker 2: I got called in again. I got called in three
9:52
Speaker 2: months after the start of high school. And all these teachers,
9:56
Speaker 2: three of them had the same look on their face,
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Speaker 2: and they said, there's just something about James. It seems
10:03
Speaker 2: like he doesn't even know where his classes are. We
10:04
Speaker 2: see him walking around looking in the windows. And he
10:08
Speaker 2: denied it all because he didn't want to be seen
10:10
Speaker 2: as dumb. And anyway, in question and answer in that session,
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Speaker 2: one of the teachers said, did you get my email
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Speaker 2: this morning? Because you haven't responded to my last deal
10:21
Speaker 2: email and he said yes. And then later in this
10:25
Speaker 2: discussion someone said blah blah blah blah, and he said, oh,
10:27
Speaker 2: I couldn't do that because my laptop has got a
10:30
Speaker 2: flat battery. And I went, hang on, if your laptop's
10:33
Speaker 2: got a flat battery, how did you get her email?
10:37
Speaker 2: And he looked around and he went, well, she said,
10:39
Speaker 2: she said it to me. I believe it. So he
10:41
Speaker 2: did not work well within the education system. He passed
10:45
Speaker 2: though he worked out. He said, Dad, I know how
10:49
Speaker 2: I can scrape through, and that's what he did.
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Speaker 1: So he did better than me.
10:54
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know that he did because he said
10:57
Speaker 2: I don't have to do that test because I can
10:59
Speaker 2: pass by doing this, that and the other. I'm not
11:01
Speaker 2: even sure I understand it. But he didn't go to university.
11:04
Speaker 2: That wasn't a good idea. But I don't know if
11:07
Speaker 2: we're staying on track but where he is now. So
11:10
Speaker 2: we wanted him to be an exchange student. That kind
11:12
Speaker 2: of saved me. It got me out of school, let
11:15
Speaker 2: me mature at my own pace. There was no real
11:17
Speaker 2: pressure in Sweden because I didn't speak the language. For
11:19
Speaker 2: the first six months, so I kind of had a
11:21
Speaker 2: lead off, and then i'd aged a couple of years,
11:24
Speaker 2: I'd done some work, and then I went back and
11:25
Speaker 2: I was kind of okay, and we thought that would
11:28
Speaker 2: be good for James. But COVID, you know, put the
11:30
Speaker 2: kibosh on that. We just the timing was wrong, and
11:35
Speaker 2: then he left. Then he finished school, and so I
11:38
Speaker 2: wrote a letter which is this message. My dad gave
11:41
Speaker 2: me to all my friends in America and Europe and
11:45
Speaker 2: created an exchange program for him. And so he's now
11:49
Speaker 2: done some acting classes in LA, he's in Sweden. He's
11:53
Speaker 2: been volunteering on two different farms. He's learned all sorts
11:56
Speaker 2: of things. So he's getting an education outside of the
12:00
Speaker 2: education system.
12:04
Speaker 1: This is fascinating. I'm sure that there are light bobs
12:05
Speaker 1: going off in everybody's minds as you talk through this story.
12:11
Speaker 1: Let's talk about what you do now as a university dropout. Well,
12:16
Speaker 1: I mean just differring on day one even counter as
12:18
Speaker 1: attending university. I don't know what's well.
12:21
Speaker 2: I'd like to say that because I'm into memorable messages.
12:24
Speaker 1: Right, I was going to say, what's your message?
12:26
Speaker 2: I attend university for a day and of course, that's
12:29
Speaker 2: that's memorable. It is anyway, so however you want to
12:32
Speaker 2: describe that.
12:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what is your message? Because that's your's that's
12:35
Speaker 1: your book, right, you're about parent messages. What's your message,
12:39
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to or maybe a better question
12:42
Speaker 1: is what's a vivid message? Because that's really what you're
12:45
Speaker 1: aiming for? Vivid messages Like I went to UNI for
12:48
Speaker 1: a day. It's vivid, it's memorable, it captures the imagination.
12:52
Speaker 2: Correct, So I guess I'll continue with my story. So
12:56
Speaker 2: I left my dad's business. I started my own business
12:58
Speaker 2: and then I joined radio and I was five years
13:01
Speaker 2: as in radio sales than as a sales manager. And
13:04
Speaker 2: I attended a presentation skills course, a two day course,
13:08
Speaker 2: and I wasn't good. I was very nervous. I'm a
13:10
Speaker 2: confident person in meeting people. But that's easy because you
13:13
Speaker 2: just have to answer questions, you know, Whereas if you
13:16
Speaker 2: stand up, everyone's staring at you. You're separate to them.
13:20
Speaker 2: They're sitting down, you're standing up, the spotlights on you,
13:23
Speaker 2: and I would freeze and I would talk rubbish.
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Speaker 1: It's my happy it's my happy place.
13:28
Speaker 2: So I did a presentation course two days and I
13:31
Speaker 2: came away from that training more nervous than before the training,
13:36
Speaker 2: and it took me a few months to work out
13:38
Speaker 2: what was going on. And what I learned was that,
13:41
Speaker 2: at least in the past, this presentation skills training was
13:45
Speaker 2: taught in a dumb way. They said, you have to
13:48
Speaker 2: worry about your body language. You've got to change basically,
13:50
Speaker 2: you've got to change who you are to fit a
13:53
Speaker 2: mold that we say is optimum. And it didn't work
13:58
Speaker 2: for me. For example, you can see me, the audience,
14:00
Speaker 2: can't My hands are moving all the time. And they said, well, no,
14:03
Speaker 2: six gestures and minutes is optimum. You're doing sixty. And
14:08
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. I didn't even know.
14:11
Speaker 1: For this cause like, who's counting? Honestly?
14:14
Speaker 2: Well no, they videoed us and they got the whole audience,
14:17
Speaker 2: the other participants to count and tell us what we
14:20
Speaker 2: were doing wrong. You know how many arms and hours
14:22
Speaker 2: and so on. So anyway, long story shot, I did
14:27
Speaker 2: my own research. I got my own education by reading books,
14:31
Speaker 2: attending seminars, and testing things with my sales team, and
14:35
Speaker 2: I developed a presentation skills of course that was focused
14:38
Speaker 2: on two things message transfer because you can speak, but
14:42
Speaker 2: did they actually get the message, can they recall it?
14:45
Speaker 2: And natural style, because when you're relaxed, you think more clearly,
14:49
Speaker 2: and that helps you communicate more effectively. And so my
14:52
Speaker 2: business is Vivid Presentation Skills. The company is called Vivid Learning,
14:56
Speaker 2: and I've been teaching these presentation skills or messaging skill
15:00
Speaker 2: and structuring skills for about twenty five years.
15:02
Speaker 1: I hear a story like this and I just think
15:04
Speaker 1: to myself, Okay, here's this guy who got through a
15:08
Speaker 1: high school. Okay, ish didn't go to university, has had
15:12
Speaker 1: a global educational experience with Sweden in particular, but now
15:18
Speaker 1: mentoring CEOs Hawthorne football Club, movie companies, Fortune five hundred
15:22
Speaker 1: companies in the United States. This idea when it comes
15:26
Speaker 1: to what the education system is giving us, and it's
15:30
Speaker 1: how fit it is for purpose in twenty twenty three, really,
15:34
Speaker 1: and listening to what you're describing about your son James
15:36
Speaker 1: as he makes his way in the world being an
15:38
Speaker 1: absolutely round peagan a square hole. This whole conversation, I guess,
15:43
Speaker 1: makes me want to press pause on the story. I
15:47
Speaker 1: think this is a compelling story and simply ask you
15:49
Speaker 1: if you're all about messages, Vivid messages what would be
15:54
Speaker 1: a customized message that parents who are listening to this
15:58
Speaker 1: conversation could share with their children, either A as they're
16:02
Speaker 1: doing their high school exams right now, or B as
16:06
Speaker 1: they're navigating the challenging place that education can be for
16:10
Speaker 1: so many families.
16:12
Speaker 2: Every kid's different, so you've got to work out the messages.
16:14
Speaker 2: But what is a vivid message? So a vivid message
16:16
Speaker 2: is something that's alive, So if it's got a visual
16:19
Speaker 2: component to it. I'll give an example of James, right,
16:24
Speaker 2: So we watch movies together. James is actually very good
16:29
Speaker 2: at remembering movie lines too. You can give him a line,
16:31
Speaker 2: he'll see the next line. So I see that that's
16:33
Speaker 2: a talent for him. And has everyone seen Finding Nemo?
16:38
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just one of those great movies. So
16:40
Speaker 2: there's a scene in Finding Nemo with the turtle, the
16:43
Speaker 2: old turtle who talks like a surfer dude, right, and
16:47
Speaker 2: he's got two or three little kids, one of them
16:49
Speaker 2: is called Squirt, and they're floating around in this fast
16:51
Speaker 2: moving channel of water. And if you go out of
16:54
Speaker 2: that channel of water, you get separated from the group.
16:57
Speaker 2: And so Nemo's dad is the main characters a nervous parent.
17:00
Speaker 2: He doesn't think the kids can be trusted on their own.
17:03
Speaker 2: So one of the little kids, little Turtle kids, gets
17:07
Speaker 2: lost and the dad Turtle talks, hey, let's see what happens.
17:13
Speaker 2: And so Nemo's dad is panicking, Oh, he's come out,
17:16
Speaker 2: he's gone out, and mister Turtle says, who.
17:20
Speaker 1: Kill the motor dude? Let us see what Squirk does
17:23
Speaker 1: flying solo.
17:24
Speaker 2: And what happens in the movie is that the kid
17:26
Speaker 2: works out where he is and he gets back in. Now,
17:29
Speaker 2: what I said to James, and I've done this three
17:31
Speaker 2: or four times. One time I said, okay, James, we're
17:34
Speaker 2: on a tram which he's five years old, six years
17:37
Speaker 2: old us, so we have to go on another tram.
17:39
Speaker 2: It's called it's number twenty six. You have to find
17:42
Speaker 2: the tram for us. And his first reaction says, I
17:45
Speaker 2: don't know what to do. Is my dad abandoning me?
17:47
Speaker 2: I'm scared. But what I did is I said, you
17:50
Speaker 2: have to find it. Let's see how you go flying
17:52
Speaker 2: so low. So what I've done is I've made that
17:56
Speaker 2: message vivid by linking it to a movie that he knows.
18:00
Speaker 2: And look how much parenting is done for me effortlessly.
18:04
Speaker 2: That movie scene. Number one, it makes him smile. Dad's
18:07
Speaker 2: playing with me. This is not serious. Number two, the
18:11
Speaker 2: movie scene shows that a child when he's flying solo,
18:14
Speaker 2: ends up working out what to do and getting back
18:17
Speaker 2: and it's a happy ending. So it gives him a
18:19
Speaker 2: little bit of courage from the movie. So he finds
18:22
Speaker 2: the number twenty six tram. He gets praised from his dad,
18:25
Speaker 2: you know, and it goes well. Sometime later at where
18:29
Speaker 2: the movie is and I go, James, you have to
18:30
Speaker 2: buy the ticket. He goes, I don't know how to
18:31
Speaker 2: buy the movie ticket. I said, look, they're standing over there.
18:34
Speaker 2: Here's the money. You hold the money in your hand,
18:36
Speaker 2: you stand in the line, and when you get to
18:38
Speaker 2: that lady at the window, you say, I want two
18:41
Speaker 2: tickets to this movie, and you give her the money.
18:43
Speaker 2: Let's see how you go flying so low right. And
18:48
Speaker 2: so the first time there's a reference that's successful. The
18:51
Speaker 2: second time, as a parent, I say, it's an even
18:53
Speaker 2: stronger message because he's already had a successful result.
18:58
Speaker 1: Vivid messages valuable customized parenting messages from a guy who
19:05
Speaker 1: mentors and leads CEOs of fortune five hundred companies and
19:09
Speaker 1: didn't do a day of UNI. Well we'll discussed I
19:12
Speaker 1: didn't stay the whole day and didn't it. Just went
19:15
Speaker 1: in to defer never actually attended the class. Cam Barber,
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Speaker 1: just a delight to have you on the podcast. Thanks
19:20
Speaker 1: so much for sharing your story.
19:22
Speaker 2: Absolute pleasure.
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Speaker 1: Cam Barba started as public speaking coach who broadened his
19:25
Speaker 1: approach to the leadership schools and marketing messages, and he
19:29
Speaker 1: wrote the best selling book What's Your Message? You can
19:32
Speaker 1: find it online you look for books. The Happy Family's
19:35
Speaker 1: podcast is produced by Justin Ruhland from Bridge Media. Craig
19:37
Speaker 1: Bruce is our executive producer. Tomorrow we're speaking with somebody
19:42
Speaker 1: I can't wait to introduce you to. She didn't do
19:46
Speaker 1: so well at school and went on to become a
19:49
Speaker 1: professor of audiology, but along the way produced sound for
19:55
Speaker 1: the artist to formerly known as Prints. I can't wait
19:58
Speaker 1: to introduce you to Susan just tomorrow on the podcast
20:01
Speaker 1: and I'll see that, yeah,