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How Gossip Works · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know from house stuff Works
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Clark and there's Charles w Chuck Bryant and uh, it's
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: just two of us again. Man, not getting any easier.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: This is just it's getting old this man. We need
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Jerry back. Where are you, Jerry? Where did you go? Selfish?
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Jerry wants to be at home with her baby. Yeah,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: we all went to shopping at kmart and she wandered
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: off and we haven't seen her since. We all want
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: to be at home with Jerry's baby. Sure, it's a
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: cute baby, but we can't be you know, the old
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: joke that Jerry could be replaced with a those dipping
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: birds just to hit record. We were just kidding. It's
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: that's happening. It is true. Maybe not the post production stuff,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: but definitely the recording thing. Clearly takes a finger to say, Okay,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: you guys are rolling. Yeah, we cannot stop griping about
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: this time. I know it's just weird. You know, when
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the threesome becomes to do, some things get awkward. I try,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: it becomes a diade, or when it toosome, becomes a
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: threesome that gets super awkward or I mean really, anytime
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: you're moving people in and out of some sort of dynamics,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: it can be weird. The transition be rough. I think
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: it's the that's what you put on the T shirt ultimately, alright,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: the transition is rough anytime you're moving people in and
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: out of a dynamic. Ready, yes, didn't know me say
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: that already. Yeah, we're recording, Chuck, I have something for you, right.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I am not much of a gossip at all. I
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: just don't do it. But do you know who does?
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Jerry a lot, and she's really vicious. I know it's
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: just not here right now, but just between the two
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: of us, I don't gossip. Jerry does, and you should
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: really watch out for. I heard that she gossips. I'm
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: not saying that, but I just heard that. I got you. Well,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I've seen her do it. She's gossip to me because
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: she finds me very important and like to confide to me.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: But it's just so vicious. So we just gossiped. We did.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: That was play acting, though. The ironic thing was that
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I was gossiping about how I don't gossip. That that
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: came through. Huh, everybody gossips. Yeah, I guess so. I mean,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: apparently people gossip way more than they realize. But I
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: think you're I think gossip is a normal thing. It
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: has such a bad connotation though that people say like,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: I don't gossip, I'm not a gossip but liars. Technically
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: not necessarily even liars. I think it also as far
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: as like linguists and psychologists are concerned, it comes from
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: a misunderstanding of what gossip, what constitutes gossip. Like at
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: its basic, barest, bare bottomed element, gossip is simply too
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: or it can be more but a couple of people
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: speaking about a third person's business while the third person
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: isn't there. There's another person who's being talked about, boy
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: isn't there. It doesn't necessarily mean you're talking about how
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: they're just just what allows you parents. They are sure
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: spending baby shoe money on gambling rather than gambling in
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: order to get more shoes. That's bad parenting right there.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: There's all sorts of stuff you can say, but you
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: could also say, actually, that guy is a great dude.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: He spends all of his money on nothing but baby shoes.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: That's gossip. It is gossip and it's not necessarily harmful.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: It's in this case you're you're helping someone else's social
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: status in other people's eyes. That's still gossip. Yeah, I think, Um,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: what's this tracy of stuff you missed in history class?
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Wrote this one? That is true? She's always thorough and
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: uh she included in here something I thought was pretty pertinent,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: gossip the rumor. Yeah. Uh, and there are differences, And um, well,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I say there's differences. But if you ask professional als
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: who study this, and there are weirdos who do that, um,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: they will say sometimes now it's the same thing. Or
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: a rumor is just a type of gossip. Uh, here's
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: some other distinguishing factors. Gossip is based in fact rumors
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: are based in hypotheses. Um. I don't know about that one.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: That makes sense to me because it kind of ties
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: in with the last one. Yeah, gossip is a tool
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: for maintaining social order, which we're gonna talk about at length.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Rumor is a tool for explaining things that people do
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: not understand. I'm not sure I get that one. Like
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: there's garbage raining from the sky, it's the government, that's okay.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Whereas if you're like Charles is up on the roof again,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: dumping his garbage out on the street. That's gossip technically,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: so yeah, or that's just laying it out there. Yeah
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: yeah true. Uh. And then finally, gossip or late something
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: people believe has happened, but rumor expresses something people hope
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: or fear will happen. So I have my own hypothesis
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: of the distinction between rumor and gossip. It's here, Uh,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: rumor is uncurated, gossip rumors any dude walking down the street.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: You can be like, there's garbage following from the guy,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: and it's the government. There's no bond that's formed there,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: there's no requirement of a bond, whereas gossip requires some
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: sort of connection or you're forming a connection from the gossip,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Or is just for anybody.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Gossip is between confidence to an extent. Yeah, And Tracy
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: points that out too, And that is why supposedly celebrity
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: gossip isn't qualified, doesn't qualify as gossip because it's a
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: third party that doesn't know the others in general, unless
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: it's you know, Jenniferranison is talking smack about she would
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: never do that. Oh really, no, she loves Courtney Cock,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: there's still friends. Huh. Sure, why doesn't she ever have
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: around Cougar Town? Then I think she was on cougar Town. Well,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: I stayed corrected, although I have no idea because I've
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: never seen cougar that. Did you hear about what happened
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: after he's on Cougar Town? I heard she washed her
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: hair and Evy and her best Shannon Dherty? Yeah, that's right.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Is that a rumor? Gossip? I don't know. We don't
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: know Shannon Dherty. Uh. And then there are some other
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: stipulations that researchers point out for a gossip that I
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: also take issue with. Some of these, Um, the conversation
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: takes place in private, usually the case. Yeah, if not
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: like actual private depends on what private mean. You you
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: everybody's got the shoulders turn. There's like a creation of
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: a private situation. Yeah, I got you. Uh. People are
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: saying it as if it were fact, even though it's
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: not confirmed. That's definitely true. Yeah, but that's not necessarily
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: the case. That's I take issue with that one. It's
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: kind of like you were saying, like I heard, but
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I haven't checked it out to take it with a
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: grain of salt. But get this. Yeah, man, uh people, Yeah,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: we already talked about that knowing each other. And then
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: the body language and tone, uh suggests a moral judgment.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: That's a big one, you know, like when people use
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: this tone. But again, that's malicious gossip. Typically there's such
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: a thing. So this is it should be said, And
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Tracy doesn't really say it in this Um I think
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: she was drinking while she was writing this one. That's
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: what I heard. Um, she didn't lay out that. There's
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: really two types of gossip. One is malicious gossip. That's
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: the type of gossip people think about when they hear
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: the word gossip. But the other type, the far more
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: apparently far more prevalent type, is um regular gossip. Yeah,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: there's some weird, unsubstantiated stat here that only that five
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: was malicious. Yeah, among most gossip. Yeah, how in the
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: world did they pull that out of their key stirt
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Here's that's a great question. So they are linguists, historians, uh, anthropologists, psychologists,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: people who started studying gossip for a very long time.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Everyone is aware of gossip, but they're like, it's just noise.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: It's not to be studied, it's to be ignored and
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, there's this really great article
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: in The Lantic that talked about gossip and how it
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: was viewed um and specifically there's this thing in sixteenth
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: and seventeenth century England didn't like it called scolds bridle,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: And if you want to see what a scolds bridle is,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: you should check that out online because there are actual
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: such things. But they're basically iron masks with like points
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: sticking into the The woman who was accused of gossip's
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: mouth usually a woman, and she would just have to
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: wear that and be publicly humiliated. A lot of them
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: had like a leash leading from them. So I guess
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: the gossip or the scold is what they used to call,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: could be paraded around town, right, Yeah, and also get
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: the feeling that a lot of women were probably made
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: to wear those who just talked too much. Yeah, I
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: would I have the same the same impression because of
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: the time period of so that's how people typically viewed gossip.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: It was something to be stamped out. It was something
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: that was um very undesirable, and academia treated it the
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: same way. In World War two came around, and I
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: think the government saw that there was some real harm
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: that could be done with gossip, with rumors, and they
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: wanted to start to understand that. So that kind of
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: led to the basis of academia investigating what gossip was,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: what rumors are, and then um over time organizations got
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: in on the act because there came this idea that
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: if the rumor mill or the gossip mill in your
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: office was really going over time, you needed to stamp
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: that out. True. They've found the opposite is actually true. Yeah,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: they found it can do a lot in a workplace
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: to keep people in line, uh, either by scaring them
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: in line or what it What it seems like a
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: lot of gossip does in that kind of environment is
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: it establishes like the norms and the culture is expected
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: out of the bosses. That's like one low level that's
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: like low level background gossip. If it's peaking and really
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: working over time, you from what I understand, you're not
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: supposed to attack the gossips. What you're supposed to do
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: is be more transparent at the top and then people
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: don't have reason to gossip. So it's not it doesn't
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: mean that you have a lot of gossips at your place.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: That's a normal human situation. As we'll see, it means
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: that your managers and the people who are running the
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: show aren't being open enough for the the hoi polois tastes, right,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: see what I mean. Good point, and that was a
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: big thing that came out of studying it. But to
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: answer your question I'm about to finish, they study it
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: by eavesdropping on like people who are talking in cafeterias.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: That's about the only way you can yeah, because it's
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: so spontaneous and it's largely unconscious. Yeah, unless it's you know,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: just some dumb pole where you're asking people about gossip
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: and self reporting poles like that, I don't put a
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: lot of stuck in you know. Well, actually they're funny
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: to look at. There's one that found that about we
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: spend about three quarters of our time gossiping apparently. Yeah,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: and that's in the broadest sense of the definition, right,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: not necessarily malicious, because about five percent of that supposedly lishes.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: But people self report gossiping about they say they spend
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: about thirty percent of their time. So rather than people
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: are like, oh, only gossip yea. And all that comes
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: from eavesdropping on people and then asking them afterwards whether
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: they gossip. Tracy points out rightfully so that most world
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: religions have always said gossip is a bad thing, including
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: the Christian Bible. Uh in Leviticus, thou shalt not go
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: up and down as a talebearer among the people. Oh,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: that was good. By the way, I wanna echo the
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: kudos that have wrung throughout social media applauding your scary
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: spider growing redneck man in the Halloween episode. It was
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: clear as a slack jowled yokel sort of. And my
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: friend Big John, well, it was good. It was a matchup.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that it was Big John in New York. No,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: he's in he's in Atlanta. Okay. Um. I actually thought
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: your your vomit take was the funniest part of the
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: whole thing, the gag, thank you, thank you. Uh. Jewish
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: tour always also says so in Buddhism. We've talked about
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Buddhism before the eight full Path to Enlightenment. No place
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: where gossip there, my friend, no way, not if you
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: want to become one with the universe, no gossiping. And
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: like like I said earlier too, it's not just the
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: religious types that are against it. People and remember the
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: business world kind of started looking in on this, and
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: they're like, don't gossip if you want to be a
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: good person, don't gossip and spreading U unless you're spreading
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: a gossip rumor that we want you to spread. Right,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: that's the official company line. Uh. And then there's this dude,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Robin Dunbar, who wrote a book called Grooming, Gossip and
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: the Evolution of Language, And I looked into this guy.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: He he really goes for it. He says that gossip
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: is the whole reason that we have language, and it
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: evolved from primates grooming each other and that took so
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: much time to groom one another and it wasn't efficient.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: That language was created in order to not have to
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: groom one another, and so you would vocal groom, that's
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: what he called it. So this is kind of a
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: big deal. Let's let's take a break for a second
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: because we're pretty deep into this, and we'll talk about
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Dunbar and his mad ideas after this, all right, Dunbar,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Dunbar can't put them off any longer. Robin Dunbar, Yeah,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: that's a pretty out there theory. I think like Dunbar
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: is saying we developed language so we could gossip in
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: in essence, Yeah, the tide of grooming is where he
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: loses me a bit and vocal grooming. I'm just he
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: says basically, it was a more efficient way to uh
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: service your allies rather than grooming one another. Right, So,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: I think what he's saying is that when you win
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: a primate grooms another primate, it's an act of um kindness.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: It's saying, like, I'm doing something nice for you. It
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: gives the other primate who's being groomed an opportunity to
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: reciprocate and form an even stronger bond. Right, scratch my back.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: But it takes a little while to do all this
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: stuff because you're actually going through the act of grooming,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: whereas if you just gossip about somebody, um, you can
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: do a lot of that same stuff, but just by talking. Yeah,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: but I don't get what it has to do with
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: picking knits out of fur. It's it's I think what
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: he's saying is it's it developed out of that. It
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: serves a lot of the same purposes. Plus also, it's
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: entirely possible that gossip began around the time or I
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: guess during grooming sessions think about it if you're just
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: sitting there picking knits out of somebody, or you're just
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: gonna sit there silently not at start chatting. How how
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: easy is it going to be to lead to talk talk?
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: And what he did after he ate that for minute? Apple, Sure,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: it's like the barbershop or the beauty shop, right kind of. Um.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: There are some different roles though that it does play
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: in social interactions where I guess the grooming thing comes
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: into play. UM. Entertaining one another, like you said, uh,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: influence on one another, that's a big one. UM, Exchanging
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: information that's important, uh, And one of the biggest ones
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: is learning from mistakes that UH linguists point out is
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: a really big part of gossip or a part of
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: positive gossip, and that there's oftentimes a moral lesson attached
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: to it. Yeah, like you don't want this to happen
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: to you, right, No, exactly, and it kind of um
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: in that respect, it gets across somebody who's perhaps a
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: little more established in a group, maybe an older person
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: like ingratiate yourself, right, But but it's also saying like
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: I'm a part of this group. You're a little newer
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: than I am. Let me tell you the story about
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: what this guy did when he transgressed against the group
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: and bad things befell him. Like you said, don't let
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: this happen to you. Don't transgress the group's boundaries, right,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: And that's important if you get if you're like a
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: new hire, they say, a lot of gossip flies. Uh,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Like I remember the movie Big Remember when Tom Hanks
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: gets hired, Like the very first thing that happens is
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: John Lovitts comes over and starts talking about all the
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: gossip of everyone in the office. I don't remember that part.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he talks about like this lady is easy
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: and this guy's a jerk, and it's just pretty common.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: I think when you get a new job, there's always
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: someone in there that's like And what they're doing, though,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: is they're not just it's not purely they're trying to
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: help themselves. It's socialization. It's in dr nature. Oh that's
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: not what I thought you were gonna say. No, Like,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: I think they're trying to be like, well, here's a
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: new ally I can get, right, Yeah, so let me
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: let me you know. I mean, it's it's there. It's reciprocal,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I guess to a certain degree. Yeah, both people are
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: getting something out of it. But I mean you make
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: a good point. The person who is doing the gossiping,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: especially in that situation, is setting themselves up as a
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: like a wise older savior advisor. If you want some information,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Well you'll find though over the years is that usually
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: the first person who comes up and starts gossiping to
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: you about how the office works is usually also the
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: most disliked. You know. That's why they cast John Lovett.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: He's great for that. That or the dude with the
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: forehead the size of a dinner plate who was in
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: all the eighties movies as that character? Was he the
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: jerkin big I don't know. Is the dad from Home Alone? No? No, no,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: this is um the coked up sidekick from the eighties
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: with the huge forehead. He was in What About You?
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: He was the sidekicking mad about you. Oh that guy?
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah yeah, same same function. Yeah he's uh
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: he's in that show now ah with Joey Tribbiani. It's
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: called Joey, Melissa and Joey. No, he's on the Yeah, yeah,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: he's on episodes took great. Does he play himself? Uh? Now?
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: He plays a jerk? Um uh TV executive perfect. He's exactly.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I love that guy that he's such a good actor. No,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. But he always plays that part.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: He's definitely he's got that part down. You're right, he's
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: not a romantic lead. Um. A lot of times. The
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: feeling of superiority is another big part of gossip, like
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I would never do this, um. And Tracy also points
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: out the old schaden freude, which is one of my
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: favorite words. It's a good word and one of my
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: least favorite things. That's you must be very ambivalent about
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: that word. What do you mean? Well, if you love
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: it but you also hate what it means, well, let's
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: got to tear you up inside. Well, I just don't
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: like someone delighting in someone else's misfortune unless it's a
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: bad person. Yeah. Could the Jimmy john S guy like
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: shot his toe off on a big game hunt, Well,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, he's a big game hunter. I would probably
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: think that was kind of you know, I think that's
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: acceptable shot in Florida, especially if it was just a
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: relatively minor injury. You know. Yeah, you say shaden shod
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: and frauda, That's how I say it. So, Chuck, kind
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: of what a couple of like we've were kind of
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: dancing back and forth across this line, like going to
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the office setting up the first day and having somebody
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: come over and tell you how the things work. Yes,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: there might be a little bit of malicious gossip in there,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: but for the most part, that's not bad gossip. That's
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: neutral gossip, right, But putting someone else down or talking
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: about how how much superior you are by not you
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: would never do what they did, that's definitely the malicious variety.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: And there's an idea that if gossip evolved, like um,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Robin Leech. Yeah, like, like Robin Leach says in his
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: post Rich and Famous Career he became an anthropologist, you know,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Um Robin Leach says that if if language evolved as
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: a means of gossiping, the guy takes it further by saying, Um,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: the reason gossip of all, the reason we needed that
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: in the first place was because we grew out of
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: these little hunter gatherer bands of like fifteen people, and
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: as our societies grew larger and larger, and we weren't
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: as able to be able to keep tabs personally on
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: others in this group that's getting bigger and bigger, so
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: you don't know who to trust. You know, if I'm
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: gonna leave my crops to somebody while I go on
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: a walk about or something, I need to make sure
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: that all my crops are gonna be there when I
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: get back, you know, But I don't really know this guy.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Gossiping serves that function. It's it's like a stand in
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: for being able to keep tabs on everybody else in
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: the society, because when you gossip with somebody, you're sharing
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a trust, a bond that they're not going to use
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: that information against you that you shared with them, and um,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: so there's a there's a definite element of trust to it.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: And when when people gossip in a larger society, they're
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: they're trusting that the person is either vouching for the
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: person or they're being warned against trusting that third party. Right,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: So it works in that same way that it's like
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: a it's a means of um keeping tabs on everybody
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: at the same time. On the other hand, or at
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: the same time, it's also um a means of social
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: control because if you know people are gossiping about everybody else,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: then surely they're gonna gossip about you too, which means
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: you better just be an upstanding, upright person. Yeah, there
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: was this uh this what's his first name, Fineberg, let's
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: just say Dr Fineberg. Dr Fineberg at Toronto in Toronto,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: University of Toronto. He's done some studies and he did
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: find in fact that basically they did these studies where
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: they were um, were you were allowed to exclude non
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: cooperators in like a group work setting. And they found
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: that you you set them out for one game, like
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: you've not been playing nicely, so you go sit over
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: there in the corner, and when they came back, they
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: were more likely to behave in other rounds. And uh,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: if they knew that their behavior was gossiped about people,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: sort of like what you're talking about with the staring,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Like if you knew someone was watching you, you would
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: return the grocery cart. If you know, if you know
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: someone's gossiping about you, you're gonna tow that line and
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: get your act together exactly. It's again it's a means
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: of social control. You know. Who were really really really
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: good at gossiping. Uh, the Puritans in colonial America, they
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: were huge, like their whole society operated on gossip and
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: the encouragement of gossip. As a matter of fact, I
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: think women were called gossips um and not necessarily negatively.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: It's just like there was a really good means of
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: social control. Not only was God watching you, your neighbors
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: were too, and they would go tell the preacher, who
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: would put a scolds bridle on you, and maybe them
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: too for telling and toss you in the lake. Yeah.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: And if you if you drowned, you weren't a witch. Right,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: all right, Well, let's take another break and we'll talk
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: a little bit more about some studies and some other
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: theories about the origin of gossip. Uh So, fine Berg,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: we talked about Dr Tinberg. Okay, I hope he or
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: she is a doctor, um, but if not, we just
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: gave him an honorary honorary doctor from stuff. You should
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: know you people are going to request those now, which
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: is great, but we can sell them. Uh So. One
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: thing that he found is that gossip can also relieve you,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: um physiologically, Like if you know that you're allowed to gossip,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: you won't get as upset about unfair things then if
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: you had to hold it all in or it's like
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: a way of setting injustice, right, Yeah, like it's street
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: justice without like a sawtout shotgun, as Charles Bronson would
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: dispense it. Right, Uh yeah, good point. Man. Have you
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: gone back and seen Death Wish recently? It is a
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: rough movie? Yeah, of course, the same with Death Wish too.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: What did you think it was? I mean I remember
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: seeing movies when I was a kid and just being like,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: you know, as a growing up, you're like, this was nothing.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: That was something. Those movies were very violent and very disturbing.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: You see, Jos Bunsen did not ask questions. No, he
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: just shot everybody. He did. Man, that was crazy. Why
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: why did you go back and rewatch Death Wish? You
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: gotta watch something? Good point? It was on. That's why
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: got I was like, I haven't seen Death Wishing forever.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: When's the last time you saw it? It's been a while.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: It's disturbing, especially as an adult. You know what movie
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I love? What Charles Bronson movie I love? Is a Mechanic? Well,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: that one's good too. Um. What's it called Tin Past Midnight?
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Is that right? I think that's on Netflix too. Maybe
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: there was there was some creepy serial killer, like psycho
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: sexual killer that he was. He was He's always hunting
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: some money. He was the Liam Neeson of his day.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: That was like supposedly a very very underrated horror thriller,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: horror slasher thriller. I'm with you all the way. I
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: haven't seen it's good though, it's good. I'll check it out.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Very creepy and and I learned, well it's not for
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: kids because I learned some things in that movie. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: It's one of those that I can specifically remember. It's like, oh, well,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: that's how I know what this is. Charles Bronson will
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: teach you all about life, whether you want to learn
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: it or not. I think it was ten past midnight. Um,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: all right, sorry about that sidetrack. Where were we? Uh?
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: We were talking about the origins of gossip. Oh yeah,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: there's some Did you read the other article I sent um?
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I think it was from the Guardian. I can't remember where.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: One of the the theories is that was that was
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: a BBC that hunting and gathering and foraging was a
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: big reason gossiping came about, because you had to know,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: you had to talk about each other, like you know,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: tuk tuk. You know, it's not very good at the hunting.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: But he's quite the gatherer, so it helps them organize
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: in the most efficient way to get things done, because
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: how is she gonna know unless you tell somebody what's
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: going on. So that makes sense, No, it is. And again,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: if this person, if the if the band is large
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: enough for the civilization is large enough that the person
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: can't keep an eye on tuk tuk all the time,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: that's how that person will gain understanding of tuk tuk's abilities.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: We're tuk talking keeping tabs on poor tuktok uh. And
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: then the other cool thing I thought was the uh
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: when we finally learned to harness fire. Uh. This hypothesis
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: is during the day we were out, you know, trying
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: to stay alive and doing our thing, finding building shelters,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: hunting for food, finding water, and at night when we
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: finally got fire, well before fire, you would just go
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: to sleep and rest because it was dark and it's
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: weird to sit around the dark. But once they had fire,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: people literally from the very beginning started sitting around and
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: talking about their day and kind of gossiping about what happened.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: And it's amazing. It's hard to blame anybody if you
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: think about it, Like, when's the last time you had
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: a legitimately interesting conversation about fantastical stuff. They're there are
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: few and far between. For the most part. People are
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: talking about their day. They're talking about people they work with,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: talking about some dude that cut them off in traffic.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: They're talking about their immediate experience. So of course you're
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: gonna gossip. It's this if if the definition of gossip
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: is talking about people who aren't there every year, right,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: everyone gossips, you're going to It's a completely natural thing.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: And I'm totally unsurprised by the idea that it started
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: out at the first campfire and it still happens today.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Apparently there are researchers who studied um bushmen in the
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Kalahari Desert in Botswana, and they say that the language
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: and the stories and the things they say during the
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: day are completely different than the things they say at
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: night and around the campfire. And they say, there's really
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: no reason to think this hasn't always been the case.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: That's neat. Um. So you said it still goes on
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: to day, And we were talking about modern studies of gossiping, right, Um.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: One of the there was like a series of studies.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know if they were all from the U
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: of Toronto or not, but they seem to be somewhat
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: related where it was. Um outside observers could watch people
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: playing games and they noticed cheaters. So they had this
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: information about cheaters that the people playing the games didn't
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: have about the cheaters. And when they were given the
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: the chance to let the players know about a cheater,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: to send him I think like a gossip note is
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: what they called it. Um. They they would most people
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: would take them up on the offer and would send
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: a note of warning to the person that they were
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: playing somebody who was cheating. Yeah. Um, and they, like
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: you said, they went from being really upset and up
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: in arms to that release valve being undone and everything
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: was fine with the world again because that person had
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: been alerted to cheating through gossiping. So there is such
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: thing as altruistic gossiping as well. Yeah, with altruism. Tracy
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: had another example of let's say there's like a coral
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: group and the self appointed leader is really kind of
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: lazy and if someone UM, then other people are kind
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: of making up the slack doing the duties that UM
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: he or she should be doing. So when new comes
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: in the group, and they say, hey, listen this this
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: girl Jane is the head of the coral group. But
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: you should know don't count on Jane to bring the
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: sheet music for you because she never does it. So
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: that's sort of altruis stick in the air, helping someone
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: learn the rules of your new group. But you're also
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: kind of talking smack and making yourself superior to Jane. Right,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: And then so Chasey added this one other thing that
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: some people would say that the person who's doing that
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: is really, like you said, just talking smack and isn't
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: really working towards a solution to the actual problem, which
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: is Jane being slack at her job. Right, And I wonder,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: like that's a really good descriptive of what gossip is.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Like gossip would be talk that's not directed toward any
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: kind of solution. It's just talking. You know, Like if
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: you take that same conversation to somebody who can fire
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Jane or make her do her job, you would no
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: one would consider that gossip because it's directed toward a goal,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: towards the solution. So I guess, and that's probably one
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: thing that people don't like about gossip. It's it's really
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways it's just blowing off steam.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: It's not really serving any direct purpose. They all seem
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: to be indirect like socializing people. I did now I
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: need an honorary doctorate from somewhere. You've got one. Um.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: And then lastly, chuck um. One of the other things,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: especially from malicious bond Um malicious gossip, is that UM,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: when somebody it's a very dangerous game. Right, when you're
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: gossiping with somebody, especially with somebody that you're not super
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: tight with, UM, you you run the risk of scaring
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: that person. Because if there's one thing that people do
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: when they hear gossip, it's they take themselves and put
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: themselves in that situation. And one of the things that
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: you will immediately think when you're being gossip too, is well,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: this person gossips, so they could very easily be gossiping
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: about me. How much should I trust this person? And
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: that's especially pertinent when it's not already like a tight pair,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: and when the gossip is malicious you know, good point. Yeah,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: well it's not mine. I'm just relating facts. You ever see, Uh,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: you've watched that gossip Girl show. No, but there's a
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Twitter handle gossip Girl I've noticed what in my research,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and it's like real No, it's like real gossip. Yeah,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I've never seen it either, But it's not real gossip
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: because it's all celebrity gossip, right. I think that's a
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: kid's not a kid show show for younger people than me.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: It's not for middle aged men. Although I do like
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: the Blake Lively so well, that was one other thing
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: too like and I don't. We haven't come out and
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: said this. Um, there's a definite perception that gossip is
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: much more prevalent among women. Sure that's not true. No, No,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: research shows that men and women basically across the board
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: equally gossip. It's old white men. Yeah, it's old white
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: old white men under attack in America. Eleven. You got
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: anything else? H No, sir, being trolley you know that? Yeah.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: If you want to know more about gossip, you can
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: type that word in the search bar at how stuff
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: works dot com and it will bring up this article,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: complete with totally superfluous illustrations that will baffle the mind. Um,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: did you see him? Yeah, it's just weird. I kept
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: looking like, did I miss a story or something that
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: relates to that. It became a game I find the
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: meaning the uh and I think I said search bar,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: and I think I said how stuff works. But either way,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: it's time for listening. Now. I'm gonna call this Disney
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Disney band. Hello, Chuck, Josh and Jerry and Neil. He
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: really wouldn't Neil the chair, No, Frank was a chair.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I think he means nol probably, so it's just hilarious.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I've been listening for a few months now, binging episodes
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: like well, I can't see what she says, Um, I
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: just listened to your part one of fairy Tales and
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: the last time on my way to work. The reason
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I'm writing is about the original Little Mermaid story. When
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I was going up, my parents were hardcore Southern Baptist.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: During my childhood, the Southern Baptist Convention did not like
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: that Disney was friendly towards homosexuals and supported evolution, so
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: they called on all the churches to boycott Disney. So
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: my parents, a good Southern Baptist that they were, took
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: everything Disney out of our house and we weren't allowed
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: to have any Disney clothes or watch the Disney Channel,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: and of course no Disney movies. So when the Disney
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: version of The Little Mermaid came out in nineteen one.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: I was in first grade. All my friends watched it,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: loved it. My mom was at a loss. Luckily, Golden
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Films released their own version of The Little Mermaid, and
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: my mom bought it. I watched this many times as
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: a child, honestly thinking this is the only version. Didn't
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: learn until a few years later when I saw the
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: original at her friend's house. Um, WoT, I bet she
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: felt like, I'm watching The Little Mermaid. It's in color. Uh.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: This version I saw followed the original story by Hans
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Christian Anderson, complete with a terrifying sea witch and the
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: suicide at the end, which a great movie for a
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: first grader to see, which started my nightmares. That's about
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: the time that I started smoking cigarette. So thanks for
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: all the great side tracking as well as the amazing
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: content you provide. And that is from Lindsay. Well, thanks
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: a lot, Lindsay appreciate that. Glad you finally got to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: see The Little Mermaid. I like that she thank us
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: for side tracking. Some people do. Sure, it's pretty infrequent.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: People are like just too on point, and then when
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: they do, I'm like, buddy, you have a long archive
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: to go through. Yeah, if that bothers you, We've got
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of good sidetracks today. And it was ten
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: past midnight by the way. Nice um. If you want
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: to get in touch with this, you can tweet to
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: us at s Y s K Podcast. You can join
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: us on Facebook dot com, slash Stuff you Should Know.
• 35:46
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• 35:49
  Speaker 1: stuff works dot com, and Chuck as always join us
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: at at home on the web, Stuff Chuck Yet, Stuff
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: you Should Know Chuck dot com. For more on this
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: H