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The Real Cure for Burnout: It’s Not What You Think! · Create The Best Me

• 0:04
  Today's guest might just convince you that a month long vacation isn't always the cure for burnout.
• 0:11
  In fact, for her, it took a completely different plan that might surprise you.
• 0:16
  But before we spill the details, let me tell you, she is a leadership coach, business consultant, and even a former midwife with some pretty fascinating stories to share.
• 0:29
  You are about to see why this conversation should spark a major''aha moment'' in your life.
• 0:36
  So stick around because by the end of this episode, you'll be thinking about your future in a totally new way.
• 0:45
  Let's welcome the one and only Jennifer Wilson.
• 0:49
  Jennifer Wilson, welcome to Create the Best Me.
• 0:54
  I'm going to tell you, this is a great honor to have you on the show.
• 0:57
  Thank you so much for having me, Carmen.
• 0:59
  It's great to be here.
• 1:00
  So before we get started, or before I tell people why I invited you onto the show, could you please tell the listeners and viewers a little bit about who you are and what you do?
• 1:12
  Yeah, thank you.
• 1:14
  So my name's Jennifer.
• 1:16
  I am a leadership coach and business consultant.
• 1:20
  I live in Victoria, BC, but I serve people all over North America.
• 1:24
  And I love working, with family businesses women in leadership, new leaders, and especially people undergoing career transitions.
• 1:35
  So that can be midlife career changes, but also young folks who are just starting out and trying to figure out what their path should be.
• 1:42
  And you also do other things.
• 1:46
  I do do a few other things too.
• 1:47
  Yes, so that's my current kind of day job, so to speak.
• 1:52
  I just started that business a couple of years ago, and I come to it as my third career in life.
• 1:57
  So, I've made a couple of big changes myself, which is why I'm interested in coaching folks who are going through those sorts of changes.
• 2:04
  My first job out of university was as a registered midwife.
• 2:09
  So I used to deliver babies for a living and I loved it.
• 2:13
  It was a really rewarding career.
• 2:15
  In the US, I was the equivalent of a certified nurse midwife, so I had hospital admitting privileges and did home births as well.
• 2:23
  And I had to leave that job unexpectedly when my ex-husband decided he didn't want to be married anymore.
• 2:31
  So I didn't have any on-call childcare.
• 2:33
  I had two little a toddler and a young child at home, so needed to pivot into a new career.
• 2:39
  And my family business, luckily was looking for somebody in my, community.
• 2:45
  So I, I sort of fell into a job working with my parents, and very quickly over the course of the next several months, realized it was something that actually really inspired me and excited me and motivated me.
• 2:57
  So I ended up working in the family business for 17 years.
• 3:01
  I went back to school and got my MBA and took over from my mom as CEO.
• 3:05
  We placed international students with Canadian host families when they come to study in Canada.
• 3:12
  So, we placed, thousands of students every year all across the country.
• 3:17
  We would recruit the host families, match them with the students, and then manage their relationship on the ground as long as they were in the country.
• 3:25
  And that was incredibly rewarding and exciting.
• 3:27
  It was fun to work with international students and learn about cross-cultural competence and how to support folks looking after other people's kids.
• 3:37
  And of course running a business.
• 3:38
  So, I ended up leaving that job about two years ago.
• 3:43
  I had realized several years before that that I was beginning to reach the end of what I felt like was my, contribution.
• 3:51
  And I also was getting burnt out.
• 3:54
  And I'd love to chat with you more about that part, because I did end up putting into place a plan for my exit and then executed that and was able to step away, on the timeline that I had created for myself, which was unusual apparently.
• 4:10
  Yeah, so I left that role.
• 4:13
  We still own the business, my parents and I are the board of directors.
• 4:16
  So I attend board meetings and manage the you know, just sort of that high level governance of the organization and that's freed me up to launch my coaching and consulting business and to write a book as well.
• 4:30
  Yes, and your book is about.
• 4:33
  It's about home stay, as you can imagine.
• 4:35
  So I've taken, what amounts to 20 years of experience and compiled it into a resource for host families.
• 4:42
  So the book is called The Heart of Home Stay: creating Meaningful Connections When Hosting International Students.
• 4:49
  And as I say, it's meant for host families about how to make the most of their experience.
• 4:54
  And there's a lot of practical tips and tools and resources on how to work with people who are different from you.
• 4:59
  How to get along with people from other cultures.
• 5:02
  So there's lots of stuff about cross-cultural competence, but there's also stuff about bias difficult conversations forgiveness and second chances and all those sorts of things.
• 5:11
  So, as parents and as colleagues and folks, just sort of getting, you know, trying to do our best in our communities, there's quite a bit of helpful information.
• 5:22
  That's great.
• 5:23
  That sounds like a book, like it's not just for home setting.
• 5:25
  It's kind of like how to get along with everyone because we're all different.
• 5:31
  Exactly, yeah.
• 5:32
  There are some basic, strategies that can work with anyone, whether you're, supervising a Japanese teenager, in your home or, or trying to get along with a co-worker in your workplace, yeah.
• 5:47
  And so Jennifer, the reason why I invited you to the show because my goodness, when I went on jenniferwilson.com, your about page, it was impressive.
• 6:00
  Incredibly impressive because you have done so much.
• 6:05
  You are, like I mentioned before, we got on the recording, you're running a hundred miles an hour when the rest of us are doing 20.
• 6:13
  But you're also doing that with a compassionate heart.
• 6:17
  Yeah, yeah.
• 6:18
  And you came to a point to where you recognized what stress and burnout was and you were able to get back to being Jennifer again and being able to give a hundred percent with the compassionate heart.
• 6:36
  And as women in midlife, we find, sometimes we've been working that same job and it feels icky.
• 6:47
  It doesn't light you up anymore.
• 6:51
  But we find that we stayed there because it pays the bills.
• 6:56
  And it's everybody knows me.
• 6:57
  I have tenure.
• 6:59
  But, it's time for us to go.
• 7:03
  And there's better opportunities out there, but we're scared because we're comfortable.
• 7:08
  And so my, I think that's a clear indication that you're burned out.
• 7:14
  Yeah And that you have all this stress on top of you.
• 7:17
  The stress is keeping you there.
• 7:20
  So how would a women be able to recognize I'm burnt out, I'm stressed out, and there's better opportunities out there for me.
• 7:29
  Yeah yeah, it's a great question.
• 7:32
  The list of symptoms of burnout is very lengthy and so it's hard to capture sort of what that looks like for any one individual.
• 7:41
  For me, it looked like a lack of enthusiasm about the future.
• 7:46
  People on my team, really great people with great ideas would bring me suggestions for changes or improvements or new initiatives.
• 7:54
  And I knew intellectually that they were great ideas and I could not get behind them.
• 7:59
  I wasn't excited about them.
• 8:01
  I wasn't jazzed.
• 8:02
  And I knew that they had potential and that somebody else might see them and be able to run with them in a way that I couldn't.
• 8:09
  So that's kind of how it showed up in the day to day.
• 8:12
  I also was a little more short tempered with folks.
• 8:16
  I was a little more irritable.
• 8:18
  And then in terms of my physical and emotional wellbeing, just sort of outside of work, for me when I'm stressed, I wake up early and can't fall back asleep.
• 8:27
  I'm a morning person anyway, but instead of waking up at 6:30 or 7:00, I'd be
• 8:31
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: 00 and ruminating.
• 8:34
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You're like, yeah.
• 8:36
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, yeah and I, just couldn't crack that nut it became a chronic issue for me.
• 8:42
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I kept doing the things that I knew I needed to do to take care of my well-being.
• 8:46
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So I stuck to my exercise routine and I continue to eat well and try to get good sleep.
• 8:52
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Those are often things that fall by the wayside when people are burnt out.
• 8:55
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You stop doing the things you know are helpful, because they feel like they're not helping anymore.
• 9:01
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Mindfulness practice was really important to me as well, and that's something that did sort of fall away.
• 9:07
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Those things that have a longer term benefit that you can't see an immediate response after doing it once or twice, those things often fall away.
• 9:17
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And then it was a conversation that I had with my counselor, who has worked with people, experiencing burnout.
• 9:26
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I said to her, I wonder if I just need some time off.
• 9:29
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Like maybe I just need more than a two week vacation.
• 9:32
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Maybe I need to take a month or, longer just to really kind of reset and get back to my sleep routine and get excited again.
• 9:39
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And she said, well, let's try a thought experiment.
• 9:41
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: What if I wrote a note for you and you could take two months off or three months off, and then you come back?
• 9:48
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I want you to imagine having had that time and now you're returning to your workplace, how do you feel?
• 9:55
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I said, oh, yeah, I don't feel great.
• 10:01
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: She said that's the thing, like that's the thing about burnout that separates it from other kinds of stress is that, taking some time off and returning to that same environment doesn't help.
• 10:11
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I knew without even trying that, that wouldn't help.
• 10:14
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So that was sort of my big aha moment for sure.
• 10:19
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah, and I've heard some people say that we'll change your duties.
• 10:24
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You know, maybe you change your duties, that passion will come back.
• 10:30
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:31
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I think that there is something to that.
• 10:33
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: The other hallmark of burnout that I think is important for people to understand is that it often has to do with the conditions of the workplace.
• 10:41
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So in my case, as CEO, I could modify those conditions really easily actually.
• 10:47
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: If I wanted to start work at a different time I could, or if I needed to, delegate something to somebody else that I didn't want to do anymore, I could probably do that too.
• 10:55
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Unfortunately for most people, that's not the case unless you're in charge.
• 10:59
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It's hard to make sweeping changes to the type of work you do, the workload you have, your pay, your hours, your colleagues, the kind of leadership you're under.
• 11:11
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: All of those things are really outside of your control and play into those feelings of burnout.
• 11:17
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, it is possible that altering one of those stressors could make a difference for you.
• 11:23
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And again, I would just encourage you to ask that same question; if you had a different set of duties, but you were reporting to the same person, how would it feel?
• 11:32
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Or if you had different co-workers, you could move to a different department, how would that feel?
• 11:36
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I've definitely seen that help, folks in our organization.
• 11:40
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: For example, we have folks who started out the job as a frontline relationship manager, what we would call, our home stay coordinators.
• 11:49
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So they were on the ground helping the students and host on a day-to-day basis.
• 11:53
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And that can be a stressful job.
• 11:55
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You have to work long hours sometimes, and you're dealing with upset people and you know, it's that classic customer service dilemma, right?
• 12:03
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And some of them have, you know, after working in that role for a while and feeling like they had kind of maxed out but didn't want to leave the organization cause they believed in what we were doing and were excited about making a difference, they were able to transition to more of a behind the scenes job.
• 12:19
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, you know, maybe they moved into an accounting role or a data administration kind of role.
• 12:24
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, that's been effective and can certainly help, but it really depends on you and what's causing the burnout and what is the stressor for you.
• 12:33
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Do you think that inside your heart you felt like there was just, you had a different calling.
• 12:40
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It was time to do something for you, something that you know, that maybe you, deep down inside you knew, you knew what that thing was, but you sort of felt like you were making a difference over here.
• 12:53
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And you were, leading the legacy, the family legacy.
• 12:56
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yes, a hundred percent.
• 12:59
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah, and I went through a similar moment when I had to step away from my midwifery role.
• 13:06
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So as a midwife, I felt a huge amount of joy and, reward in the role that I had.
• 13:13
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Obviously you could imagine, watching babies being born, it's pretty exciting.
• 13:18
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And at the same time, I, you know, in midwifery as a career and as a option for women in Canada was a fairly new profession.
• 13:30
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It had only become legal in Ontario in 1994, and it was legalized in BC in 98, I believe it was.
• 13:38
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I was practicing, around that time.
• 13:40
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, as one of a group of the first midwives who got registered in the province of Manitoba, I was one of the first 12 midwives who started working in Winnipeg in, 2000.
• 13:51
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I felt a tremendous obligation to sort of stick with it, to stay in that profession.
• 13:56
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I had done all this training, I had the opportunity to help women.
• 14:00
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: There weren't very many midwives out there.
• 14:02
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So I felt a lot of guilt leaving that job.
• 14:05
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Even though it was decision that I didn't willingly make, but I thought about it a lot when I had various forks in the road when I could have gone back to midwifery and ended up deciding not to.
• 14:19
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And again, you're right, when I decided I needed to leave the family business, it was similar kind of thing like guilt and pressure and the sense of obligation.
• 14:29
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And, you know, at the core of it, I was good at it.
• 14:32
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I liked it and I got lots of great feedback.
• 14:36
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And people respected me and I was seen as an expert.
• 14:40
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I'm still seen as an expert in home state and I'm proud of that.
• 14:44
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: When you devote a lot of time, energy and effort into getting good at something, it's hard to step away from it.
• 14:52
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I had a lot of support from my parents.
• 14:54
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: They always said from day one that they wanted CHN, our Canada Home State Network to be rewarding and meaningful and purposeful, but not a burden.
• 15:06
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And so when I described to them my feelings of burnout, they were absolutely supportive of me taking a different path.
• 15:14
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So I was lucky in that respect that they had my back and that helped for sure, but it was still a difficult transition.
• 15:22
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And you mentioned sort of having other things.
• 15:24
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I clearly, I'm somebody who has a lot of interests and skills, and there were definitely things that I still felt like I wanted to do with my life, and the book was a big piece of that.
• 15:35
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: That was been a lifelong dream.
• 15:37
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I think I was in grade six when I first decided I wanted to write a book and have a book published one day.
• 15:43
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I actually started interviewing hosts for my book back in 2015, so 10 years ago now.
• 15:50
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And continue to try to do more interviews and kind of work my way along trying to produce that and kept feeling hampered by the stress of my day-to-day job.
• 16:02
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So I would work all day in home stay, and then when it was time to sit down and start writing in the evening the last thing I wanted to write about was home stay.
• 16:10
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I knew I needed to have some separation and distance from the day-to-day job in order to have the creative space to be able to write.
• 16:19
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I also knew that this wasn't the only book I wanted to write.
• 16:22
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So I have other books in me and I wanted to create the long-term space for me to have a writing career.
• 16:29
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So that was a big driver for me.
• 16:32
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I also felt aligned with, have you heard of Arthur Brooks?
• 16:38
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: No, I He's written a couple of books.
• 16:39
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, one of them is "Create The Life You Want." It's he co-authored with Oprah.
• 16:44
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah.
• 16:45
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You're nodding now.
• 16:45
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah.
• 16:46
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yes.
• 16:47
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah, so he has another book called ''From Strength to Strength'', where he talks about career transitions in midlife.
• 16:54
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: In our forties and fifties we go from having been successful in our careers and lives by applying what he calls fluid intelligence to moving into a stage of life where we apply crystallized intelligence.
• 17:09
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So that's exactly what I'm doing and experiencing right now.
• 17:13
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, it's this shift from that kind of hustle mentality of go, go, go innovation, trying new things, breaking new ground, learning things and progressing up the career ladder.
• 17:27
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And then in our second half of life, we realize we want different things.
• 17:31
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: We have different drivers, different motivations.
• 17:34
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Things that were important to us in our twenties are now not as important and there's new things that matter to us.
• 17:41
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And so coming to an understanding of seeing what those new things that matter are.
• 17:48
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And then the crystallized intelligence part is about applying the things you already know.
• 17:52
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So taking your wisdom, hard earned experience, and then sharing it with other people.
• 17:58
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So that's exactly what I, do as a coach and consultant.
• 18:02
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And it feels really good to be able to help other folks in that way.
• 18:07
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And to not be on that same kind of hustling, stressed out kind of routine of the day-to-day life of a CEO.
• 18:17
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah, and I think that's very humbling that you took a step down.
• 18:21
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I think most people would say, you hit the ceiling, you hit CEO status and you said, yeah, I did.
• 18:28
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I did, and now it's time to do something for me.
• 18:31
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Something that I feel like I'm doing what I want to do or what I always wanted to do at a different level.
• 18:39
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I think another thing is that as women, we do things like second nature.
• 18:45
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: We're experts at so many things.
• 18:48
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But when it comes down to identifying what those things are, we have a hard time identifying what those things are because they just come to us naturally.
• 18:57
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Or we've been doing them for such a long time and we're experts in doing them.
• 19:01
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.
• 19:04
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And so when I was making that decision to leave the family business and trying to figure out what would come next, I had to ask myself those questions.
• 19:13
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And sometimes you don't see it yourself.
• 19:16
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And it took a different exercises, reading a few books, and mostly talking to other people to help me see what I had to offer that was unique and different and special that I could get paid to do.
• 19:30
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I mean, yes, I was a CEO.
• 19:32
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And as many people said what are you doing?
• 19:34
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: you're in your prime earning years.
• 19:36
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: How could you leave this great job?
• 19:38
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And, um, yeah, and that was it, I knew that I needed something that was fulfilling.
• 19:44
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And it's what Dan Sullivan and the Strategic Coach program calls "Your Unique Ability".
• 19:51
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So this is exactly what you're talking about.
• 19:52
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It's this thing that we have inside us, factory installed is what they like to say.
• 19:58
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You've had this unique ability for your whole life.
• 20:01
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It's the kind of thing that you do and you lose track of time when you're doing it.
• 20:05
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You get into that flow state, and other people see it and value it and want it from you.
• 20:12
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And again, like you say, it's hard for you to see that in yourself cause it just seems so second nature, like, doesn't everyone do this?
• 20:18
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Like, so the best way to figure out what your unique ability is, to ask other folks.
• 20:23
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So that's something I did for sure.
• 20:26
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But how did you find the right people?
• 20:27
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Cause I remember when I was transitioning, I went to people that I thought were really close to me and would give me an honest answer as to what those qualities were.
• 20:38
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Some of the feedback I got was totally ridiculous.
• 20:41
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And so I thought, yeah, it was, and I thought, okay, I going to find the right people.
• 20:46
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Who are the right people?
• 20:49
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Or maybe it's the right question too.
• 20:53
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Cause I think there's a way to ask that that gets at, again, the sort of more unique pieces of you rather than just kind of what am I good at.
• 21:01
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Or what have you seen me do that I'm good at?
• 21:04
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So I think that's part of it is to really hone in on what's unique or special about you.
• 21:10
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But you can ask a number of people, sort of colleagues, professional, but also personal, and folks who've known you for a long time.
• 21:17
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Mentors, you know, there's a gentleman in particular, that I have in mind who was a friend of my dad's, they worked together, 25 years ago.
• 21:26
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So he's my dad's age and generation and uh, he's been a great mentor for me for many years.
• 21:33
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So that's somebody that I asked for sure.
• 21:37
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You know, and I was surprised.
• 21:37
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Is I asked my, and I thought I'm going to get the most dumbest answers, but I asked my adult children, I asked my adult children.
• 21:44
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Cause they're kind of quirky, kind of goofy.
• 21:47
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I was quite surprised that my adult children gave me the most thorough identifications of what those skills were.
• 21:57
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: That's so amazing.
• 21:59
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: What a, what a neat moment for you.
• 22:01
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You you see me?
• 22:04
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Exactly.
• 22:05
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah, that's neat.
• 22:06
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And you know what, asking the people who are closest to you you can also ask them questions related to burnout.
• 22:12
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Sometimes we don't see those warning signs in ourselves, but our family and friends do.
• 22:19
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: When I teach compassion fatigue and burnout to groups, I talk about green, yellow, and red.
• 22:24
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So there's kind of three stages of where you're at in terms of your well-being.
• 22:28
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: If you're green, it's like you've just gotten back from holiday and you're feeling great and you're refreshed and energized and excited to get to your day.
• 22:36
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yellow is obviously those warning signs where you're starting to let things slip, where you're feeling more irritable or it's time to start binging Netflix.
• 22:45
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And then the red is, you know, burned out, done, you've hit the wall kind of thing.
• 22:50
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So if you're in that yellow zone, asking your friends and family, the people who are closest to you, am I yellow?
• 22:55
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Am I in that zone right now?
• 22:56
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Can you tell me what do you see when I'm slipping into that yellow zone?
• 23:00
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: What are the warning signs that I need to be monitoring?
• 23:02
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And they will know.
• 23:03
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: They will tell you.
• 23:05
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, let's say you have, you're working with a client who is in that yellow, red, maybe orange.
• 23:12
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Mm-hmm, yep, yep.
• 23:14
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: How do you get them to recognize that it's time change has to happen?
• 23:22
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You going to jump off that boat.
• 23:24
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah, there's a few questions that I like to ask to help people discover that moment.
• 23:31
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I'm thinking of one person in particular I worked with a couple years ago.
• 23:34
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: She came into our coaching engagement, wanting to improve her leadership skills in the workplace.
• 23:41
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And by the third or fourth session, she had decided it was time to quit.
• 23:47
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: She was no longer wanting to talk about leadership.
• 23:49
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: She was wanting to talk about career change.
• 23:52
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And it was through that process of kind of digging into deeper about what was difficult for her.
• 23:59
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: She had identified her leadership skills as the issue, but in the process of unpacking that, we discovered these deeper issues.
• 24:07
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And she realized that what she really wanted wasn't to work better in this particular environment was to leave altogether and apply her skills in a different place.
• 24:17
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So it really varies by person.
• 24:19
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: There isn't one question that I ask everyone that's sort of the magic question.
• 24:23
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But one of the questions going back to this, to your adult kids, that I really like to do and I think folks don't do this often enough, is to think about the impact that their choices are having on their family, on their immediate family, or their spouse or their friends.
• 24:39
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And so the way I frame that is to talk about our systems.
• 24:44
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I'm not talking about our, you know, you can think about a system as like an organization or your organism.
• 24:50
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But a system in this context is the people around you.
• 24:55
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So your system, your family system could be you and your spouse and your kids.
• 25:00
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It could be your aging parents that you're having to look after now that you're in the sandwich generation stage of life.
• 25:06
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It could be your neighbors.
• 25:08
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Maybe you've got a neighbor that you're helping out from time to time.
• 25:11
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: All of those people that you sort of touch on a day-to-day basis are part of your system.
• 25:17
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And one of my favorite questions to ask is how does the choice you're making right now either saying yes or no to something affect your system.
• 25:26
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And not just right now, but what's the impact of that choice three months from now, or six months from now, or a year from now.
• 25:34
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So for example, I had another client who was trying to decide whether or not to leave her job and launch her coaching practice.
• 25:41
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: She was also a coach and was doing this coaching kind of on the side of a full-time job, but she really, really wanted to be coaching full-time.
• 25:49
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But she was afraid of leaving the safety net of this full-time job and the regular paycheck and going out on her own and being an entrepreneur.
• 25:56
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And one of those questions, one of those times we talked about her system she said, you know what, it's my parents.
• 26:01
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: They're aging, they need more help.
• 26:03
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It would be great if I could spend more time with them.
• 26:06
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I could cook some meals for them.
• 26:07
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I could go and play cards with them on a Thursday afternoon.
• 26:11
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: If I left my job, I would be able to devote myself to them in a way that I know I won't have a chance to in five or 10 years from now.
• 26:20
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So that was one of the reasons she ended up leaving.
• 26:22
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It was not necessarily because she was excited about coaching full-time.
• 26:25
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It was because she wanted to have more space and freedom in her day to day life to be able to be with her parents.
• 26:31
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, yeah.
• 26:33
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: That's great.
• 26:35
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And so, how do you get somebody to recognize their skills?
• 26:38
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I mean, other than asking people questions.
• 26:40
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Dig deeper cause somebody might tell you, you're so good at problem solving, or, you're so good, you're so good at tech.
• 26:48
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Hmm.
• 26:48
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And some people don't recognize that they are good at this stuff because you hand them a computer or hand them a phone and boop boop, they're done.
• 26:56
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Problem solved.
• 26:59
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah, I think that's interesting, one of the things you just said is like, you're good at tech or you're good at problem solving.
• 27:04
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So I think that, what's helpful is to sort of look underneath that.
• 27:09
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So when we talk about unique ability, it's not necessarily I'm uniquely good at solving a technical problem.
• 27:16
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: There's an underlying skill, which is, I can see problems at a different level or layer than other people.
• 27:23
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Some folks are really great at taking a complex issue and zooming up to the 30 or 40,000 foot view looking at it from the balcony, so to speak, and being able to take that high level perspective and, organize it or see all the parts to manage it in that way.
• 27:44
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And that is a unique ability.
• 27:46
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But the actual technical piece is not necessarily.
• 27:51
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: What you want to get at is the skill that's underneath that, that you can apply to anything.
• 27:57
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So the folks who are great at technical problem solving might also be great at other types of problem solving in other fields, because they have this skill at being able to see the big picture.
• 28:08
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Or vice versa, maybe somebody's really great at getting into the weeds and looking at all the details and analyzing the numbers, and so maybe right now they're in a job, analyzing data for an HR team, and they might be great at analyzing data for a finance company, right.
• 28:23
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Like, so it doesn't matter.
• 28:25
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You're less concerned with the job title and more concerned with the skillset driving that underneath that, if that makes sense.
• 28:33
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah.
• 28:33
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I think that as we get older, cause you were saying, we were talking about earlier what was important to us when we were younger is not as important as when we're older.
• 28:42
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I think you just hit the nail on the head with that is that I think when we're younger, we're so into titles Yeah.
• 28:52
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: and when we're older, we're not necessarily into titles, but what we're actually doing.
• 28:59
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: What the job entails.
• 29:01
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And is it rewarding?
• 29:02
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Is it, is it, does it feel good in your chest?
• 29:05
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Mm-hmm.
• 29:06
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: The one thing that gets people up and at work day after day, when they're in a stressful environment and doing something that's difficult is a sense of purpose.
• 29:19
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I think you're right, that becomes more and more important to us as we age.
• 29:23
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Feeling like we're really making a difference.
• 29:26
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But it's important to everybody at every stage.
• 29:28
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It's one of the three drivers that Dan Pink talks about in Drive.
• 29:33
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: When we talk about motivation and how to get people to do good work, it's not necessarily paying them more.
• 29:41
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: The three things that drive us are autonomy, mastery, and purpose.
• 29:45
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So autonomy is being able to make decisions about the way you do your job.
• 29:50
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Even having autonomy around your daily schedule or daily routine is really important.
• 29:55
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But really that means, being free to get the work done in the way you see best.
• 30:00
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Mastery is the idea that we would continually get better at something that we feel like we're learning and growing and improving.
• 30:08
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: We don't want to stagnate and just get stuck into a routine.
• 30:11
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: We like to feel like we're improving all the time and, we have a chance to master a particular skill or area.
• 30:18
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And then purpose is what you're talking about.
• 30:20
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, yeah, this feeling that we can make a difference that we have something meaningful.
• 30:25
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And you know, I love thinking about purpose.
• 30:27
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It doesn't mean that you have to be the person doing the grand thing.
• 30:31
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I love this, I can't attribute it to a person, cause it's sort of one of those things that I've heard long ago and sort of just stuck with me.
• 30:39
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But it's this anecdote of a person who interviewed somebody sweeping the floors at NASA.
• 30:45
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And he said, why do you work here?
• 30:46
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: What do you love about your job?
• 30:48
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And the response was, I'm helping put a man on the moon.
• 30:52
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: He was a janitor in, you know, and he was helping put a man on the moon.
• 30:58
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So it doesn't matter what your title is, if you are part of a team that's getting this grand, goal accomplished, that can give you meaning and purpose.
• 31:08
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, yeah.
• 31:10
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So Jennifer, like I said, you have done it all.
• 31:15
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You help people with writing.
• 31:17
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You help house international students in homes, helped your parents with that business.
• 31:22
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You brought life into this world.
• 31:25
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You brought new life, which is the book that you wrote.
• 31:29
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: How does one balance all of that without getting burned out?
• 31:35
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 31:38
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: For me, it's a combination of things and, everyone's going to have a different answer to this.
• 31:43
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I think that there are some pretty tried and true methods to make sure that you are maintaining a sense of balance in your life.
• 31:51
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So there's that bucket of things we can do for self-care.
• 31:55
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So things for me are like, as I said earlier, getting good sleep, eating well, getting lots of exercise.
• 32:01
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: For me, I love to run.
• 32:03
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: That's kind of the thing that I do, cause I can just put on my shoes and go out the door.
• 32:06
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I don't have to make it to a gym or worry about who I'm like start getting to a class on time.
• 32:11
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I know that other people need the accountability of going to a class or, you know, the discipline of making themselves get out of the house and going to a gym.
• 32:19
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But for me, I just love running.
• 32:21
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: If you have a benefits plan that covers things like massage, that can be really helpful too.
• 32:25
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So it's what my therapist likes to call your personal toolbox of self-care strategies.
• 32:33
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: One of the things that we do when we have these toolboxes, maybe for you it's having a hot bath or walking your dog or doing puzzling in your living room with your kids.
• 32:42
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Like there's a number of things that you can do that are helpful and, refill your cup.
• 32:46
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But I think there's a few mistakes we make with those toolboxes.
• 32:50
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: One is that we don't, refresh the tools in the toolbox.
• 32:54
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: We believe we have these sort of, the set things of three or four things that I do that are my self-care strategies.
• 33:00
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I don't revisit them or analyze them or refresh them.
• 33:03
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So that's number one look at the tools and see if there's anything you need to add or delete.
• 33:08
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: The second thing is that we don't, apply them.
• 33:11
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: We know we have these tools and we don't use them.
• 33:15
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So that's the second reminder is to, you know, what you need to do, you need to actually do it.
• 33:19
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: The third is that we, uh, we identify those tools as being kind of like nice to have or luxury items or things that we need to earn or that we need to do something to deserve them.
• 33:36
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I would just encourage your listeners, you all deserve to feel good and be happy all the time.
• 33:44
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You don't have to earn it.
• 33:46
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So don't wait to apply the tools till you've done something or accomplished something or tick something off your list, you can apply them all, all the time, every day.
• 33:55
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And then I think the other piece is, making sure that you build them into your daily routine and that you're not sort of saving them up to like, you know, I'll do that hike once every couple of months, you know?
• 34:05
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It's important to continue to apply them on a regular basis.
• 34:09
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So yeah, that's what I'd say figure out what your tools are, refresh them, actually use them.
• 34:16
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Don't feel like you are, being self-indulgent by doing them.
• 34:20
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Self-care is not, selfish, it's the opposite of that.
• 34:24
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It's how can you help other people?
• 34:25
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: How can you love other people?
• 34:27
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: How can you be a good parent or be a good boss or be a good co-worker if you're not taking care of yourself?
• 34:32
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, yeah, that's what I would say.
• 34:35
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So for the listener or viewer who is watching this right now, who is actively in the yellow or red what is one piece of advice that you would tell them to start doing right now?
• 34:53
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Oh, Carmen, that's a lot of pressure.
• 34:57
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: What would I tell them to do right now?
• 34:59
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I, I think the first step, and this is something I teach when I talk about compassion fatigue, is to take stock of your stressors.
• 35:07
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So step one is to sit down with a blank piece of paper and write down everything that's on your plate.
• 35:15
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And I want you to imagine a day from when the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed and write it all down.
• 35:22
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I have to get up, I have to feed the pets, I have to make lunch for my kids.
• 35:26
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I have to go for a run.
• 35:29
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I have to clean the kitchen.
• 35:31
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Like just start from the, like that moment and write it all down.
• 35:35
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I have to plan that Thanksgiving dinner for my family.
• 35:39
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I, you know, all the things.
• 35:40
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And then the next step is to look at that list and think about the things that you could make one small incremental change to improve.
• 35:51
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And it, this is a really important concept it's something that James Clear talks about in "Atomic Habits." The idea that we don't have to make sweeping changes to have a big impact.
• 36:01
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: That a 1% adjustment to something that you're doing adds up over time.
• 36:06
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So if you could look at the list and think like, what's 1% of a tweak that I can make to one or two of these things that I could do this week, and then put that into action.
• 36:19
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It's just those little baby steps, but it really matters.
• 36:22
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, and I think you've had other guests say this too, that it's not about like a massive overhaul of everything in your life.
• 36:29
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: If you can do that, great.
• 36:31
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: If you feel inspired, but if it's really just about making these little tweaks, then that can actually have a really big change.
• 36:39
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And then I think if you identify something that you'd like to modify, then it could be important too.
• 36:46
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: If you're someone who needs this to find an accountability partner, who can, and all that means is just like tell somebody.
• 36:55
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It could be a friend, it could be a coach, it could be a colleague.
• 36:58
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I have made a plan to do this thing and I want to do it by X date.
• 37:03
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Just saying it out loud and to this person, that's all that that needs to happen.
• 37:07
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: They don't need to check in with you.
• 37:08
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You can ask them to if you'd like.
• 37:10
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But just having stated it out loud can be a really, powerful strategy as well.
• 37:16
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah.
• 37:17
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I always say make it public.
• 37:21
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah.
• 37:21
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Make it, Make it public because then you never know, if I just told my neighbor, hey, I plan on doing this or I'm going to do this.
• 37:28
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You know, the next time I talk to her, she's going to say, so how's that going?
• 37:32
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 37:36
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And again, it doesn't have to be, heavy handed.
• 37:39
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It's not like they're going, there may not even be any consequences for not doing the thing.
• 37:44
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But when you say to that, to somebody then, and, and you can reciprocate, like maybe you can say like, I, I'd like to do the same for you.
• 37:52
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Is there anything that you're trying to change?
• 37:54
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So I think that's can be really powerful.
• 37:56
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And you could also just hire a coach if you want to work with someone who's a professional and who knows how to do this for you.
• 38:03
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Exactly, and then you're going, then that's a paid accountability partner.
• 38:07
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Exactly.
• 38:08
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah.
• 38:09
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah.
• 38:10
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah.
• 38:10
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Jennifer, from the conversation that we have had today, what is the one thing that you would like the listener or viewer to hold close to their heart?
• 38:20
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I think you can tell from my career path that I have followed my heart in the choices that I've made and it's paid off, and I think there's lots of examples.
• 38:32
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I imagine your listeners can probably think of people in their circle of friends or acquaintances who have taken a leap and trusted in themselves and gone for the thing that they always wanted and that it's worked out for them.
• 38:46
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So yeah, I would just say, yeah.
• 38:49
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: You don't know unless you try.
• 38:53
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And go for it.
• 38:54
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Uhum.
• 38:56
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Jennifer, where can people learn more about you or work with you?
• 39:00
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Thank you.
• 39:01
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So you mentioned my website.
• 39:03
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I am, my middle name is Robin.
• 39:05
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Jennifer Wilson is such a common name, it's hard to find me unless you add that in.
• 39:09
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, JenniferRobinWilson.com is my, website and all my social handles, so LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram, you can find me at Jennifer Robin Wilson.
• 39:20
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And my coaching website, if you're interested in working with me as a coach or consultant, is Oak Bay Coaching and Consulting.ca all spelled out.
• 39:31
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: But you can also just find my coaching site through my Jennifer Robin Wilson author site.
• 39:36
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, there is a link to my coaching website from there.
• 39:39
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So, yeah that's the easiest.
• 39:41
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And my book again, is called The Heart of Homestay, and you can find it on Amazon, at Barnes and Noble or your local bookstore too.
• 39:48
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I like to encourage folks to buy local.
• 39:51
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So you can just go to your local book seller and ask them to bring it in, if they don't have it already, they'll be able to order a copy for you.
• 39:58
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And again, as we mentioned offline, the book is not just for home setters or for people that are bringing in international students into their life.
• 40:07
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: The book will also help you, know other cultures, understand other people.
• 40:12
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Get along with other people.
• 40:14
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: That's right, yeah.
• 40:16
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Yeah.
• 40:16
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Anyone involved working with other cultures.
• 40:19
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Of course, it was geared toward an audience of people hosting and as you say, if you work kind of at the periphery of that, any roles in international education, or study abroad or exchange programs, yeah, it's helpful for anyone working in that field.
• 40:35
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Jennifer, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 40:38
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: I will include all your links in the show notes so that people know exactly where to find you.
• 40:43
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Beautiful.
• 40:43
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Thank you so much, Carmen.
• 40:44
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It's been such a pleasure chatting with you.
• 40:46
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: It has, thank you.
• 40:48
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Wasn't that incredible.
• 40:50
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Now, you know, the surprising way Jennifer discovered that even months off wouldn't truly fix her burnout.
• 40:58
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: She had a plan to exit on her own terms and shift toward what really let her up.
• 41:05
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: So if you caught yourself nodding along the way, maybe even plotting your own next big leap, be sure to head on over to createthebestme.com/ep111 to learn more about Jennifer Wilson or connect with her directly.
• 41:24
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And don't forget to come back next week for another amazing episode, created just for you.
• 41:30
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Until then, keep dreaming big.
• 41:33
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Take care of yourself.
• 41:34
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: And remember, you are beautiful, strong, and capable of creating the best version of yourself.
• 41:40
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Thank you for watching.
• 41:41
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Catch you next week.
• 41:43
  waking up at 4:30 or 5: Bye for now.