Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Amateur Fishermen’s Association of the NT CEO David Ciaravolo has welcomed clarity around fishing access from next year but hopes plans for the Finnis and Mini Mini are firmed up soon

Transcript

Amateur Fishermen’s Association of the NT CEO David Ciaravolo has welcomed clarity around fishing access from next year but hopes plans for the Finnis and Mini Mini are firmed up soon · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: When you will recall well, over the last few weeks
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: we have spoken quite a bit about some of the
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: different issues that we're dealing with, I guess you'd say,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: when it comes to access on our waterways and what
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: it's going to mean come the end of the year.
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  Speaker 1: Now we know that the Full Council of the Northern
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  Speaker 1: Land Council agreed to updated access arrangements for recreational fishes
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  Speaker 1: on waters overlying Aboriginal land from the start of next year.
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  Speaker 1: So the current arrangements cease of course on December thirty
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  Speaker 1: first and are going to be replaced by a permit system.
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  Speaker 1: We did catch up with Joe Martin Jard, the CEO
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  Speaker 1: of the NLC, on Friday last week and joining me
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  Speaker 1: in the studio to talk us through some of the
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: concerns that are being raised at the moment. From the
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  Speaker 1: Fishow perspective. It is the CEO of Avant, David Girevolo.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Good morning Katie, and good morning listeners.
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  Speaker 3: Great to have you on the show. David.
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  Speaker 1: What has been the reaction from our wreck fishes here
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  Speaker 1: in the territory following on from that announcement last week?
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  Speaker 4: So I certainly think it's welcome that we're not living
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  Speaker 4: in a state of uncertainty anymore.
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  Speaker 2: And I think.
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  Speaker 4: People are really worn out over this uncertainty that keeps
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  Speaker 4: coming up every year or every couple of years. So
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  Speaker 4: having the permits being announced for remote areas, and I
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  Speaker 4: think it's important that it does.
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  Speaker 2: Relate mostly to remote areas.
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  Speaker 4: Most of those places you'll already need a land permit
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  Speaker 4: to get to, say for the Ropa River. It hopefully
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  Speaker 4: will provide a little bit of certainty around access to
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  Speaker 4: those places.
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  Speaker 2: However, it's really important to note that.
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  Speaker 4: The more popular places with unresolved access, places like the
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  Speaker 4: Finnis and the Mini Mini, are not covered by the
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  Speaker 4: permit system. They're still off limits. And of course we
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  Speaker 4: know there's a whole bunch of land claims that have
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  Speaker 4: been recommended for grant and will be expected to be
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  Speaker 4: granted over the next year or a few years, and
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  Speaker 4: there will be need to be negotiations around those areas
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  Speaker 4: as well.
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  Speaker 1: And I mean, I think the point that you made
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  Speaker 1: right at the start there is it's that uncertainty. And
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  Speaker 1: while they may be a little bit more certainty, I
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  Speaker 1: guess for the next you know, for the next period
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  Speaker 1: of time, the next couple of years with the permit
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  Speaker 1: system for places like the Finnis and the Mini Mini.
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  Speaker 1: Where are we at with those negotiations from your perspective,
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  Speaker 1: and are reck fishes involved in any of those discussions?
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  Speaker 4: So recreational fishes are not involved in it, and I
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  Speaker 4: think you know, it's really important that people do understand
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  Speaker 4: first and foremost that aboriginal land overlied by water is
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  Speaker 4: our aboriginal waters and traditional owners do have the right
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  Speaker 4: to set the parameters for access. The default setting is
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  Speaker 4: that people would need a permit and is really, I
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  Speaker 4: guess disappointing that after fourteen years. As far as we know,
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  Speaker 4: there are many many areas around the Northern Territory. Certainly
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  Speaker 4: those popular areas have had some conversations with government and
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  Speaker 4: the Northern Land Council statement that came out last week
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  Speaker 4: referred to the fact that their ongoing negotiations in those places.
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  Speaker 4: But we also know from our engagement with traditional owners
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  Speaker 4: that there are many places around the territory that over
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  Speaker 4: the last fourteen years have not seen a single offer
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  Speaker 4: and so.
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  Speaker 2: I raises some questions.
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  Speaker 4: Around the longevity of the free permit and as consultations
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  Speaker 4: continue around the coastline, whether maybe some traditional owners will
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  Speaker 4: wig up and say, well, it is a free permit,
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  Speaker 4: really the best deal after fourteen years. So we think
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  Speaker 4: there's still a lot to play out in this space
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  Speaker 4: and encourage the government to do a much better job
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  Speaker 4: than they've done over the last fourteen years.
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  Speaker 1: And when we'd asked Joe Martin Jad about it on Friday,
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  Speaker 1: he said that, you know, some of the offer that
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  Speaker 1: had been put forward had been a bit low ball.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know to what degree.
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  Speaker 1: And I guess that because those negotiations, well, because those
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  Speaker 1: discussions are still happening, there wasn't a great deal more detail,
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  Speaker 1: I guess, But I mean, it just feels like such
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  Speaker 1: a long time, David, And it just feels as though
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  Speaker 1: like you sort of think to yourself, why is it
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  Speaker 1: taking so long?
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  Speaker 4: Well, when you think about the hurt and division in
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  Speaker 4: that it's causing in the community, the fact that a
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  Speaker 4: lot of people is sort of the way that they
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  Speaker 4: charge themselves up, their mental health and well being has
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  Speaker 4: been very much challenged by this. Traditional owners opportunities to
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  Speaker 4: benefit from and feel in control of the lands that
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  Speaker 4: they own has been compromised for so long. To hear
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  Speaker 4: something like that, like the offers have been low ball,
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  Speaker 4: is really really disappointing. And I think, you know, we've
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  Speaker 4: got forty thousand recreational fishes and tens of thousands of
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  Speaker 4: visitors who would be very disappointed to hear that. I
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  Speaker 4: think they would assume that there has been a generous
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  Speaker 4: and flexible offers on the table.
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  Speaker 2: From what I understand and my knowledge of it is
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  Speaker 2: limited because we're not.
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  Speaker 4: Part of it, and hearing comments like that, it seems
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  Speaker 4: that that might not be the case. And it really
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  Speaker 4: I just cannot encourage the government strongly enough to say,
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  Speaker 4: get on with it, do a better job, start with
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  Speaker 4: a blank paid and try to work out if you
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  Speaker 4: can come to agreements with traditional owners and listen to
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  Speaker 4: what they're saying, but also recognize what this worth is
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  Speaker 4: worth to the community, to the economy, and to society.
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  Speaker 1: Now, with some of the changes with the permit system
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  Speaker 1: that has obviously been spoken about last week and announced
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  Speaker 1: last week, is it workable from a Reckfisher's perspective? Is
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  Speaker 1: it quite easy to sort of be able to get
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  Speaker 1: those permits stepping aside? I guess from not being able
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  Speaker 1: to access all those locations that they may be used
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  Speaker 1: to be able to.
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  Speaker 4: So it's my understanding that it's not up and running
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  Speaker 4: just yet, but it's expected to be up and running
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  Speaker 4: over the next couple of weeks. As somebody who has
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  Speaker 4: traveled remotely for work numerous times to go and visit
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  Speaker 4: traditional owners or to do work meeting with the Northern
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  Speaker 4: Land counts long Country, I would say to people if
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  Speaker 4: you haven't applied for a permit before, the first thing
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  Speaker 4: that probably takes the longest usually is actually to set
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  Speaker 4: up your profile, so just to go in and to
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  Speaker 4: do that, and people could maybe start to do that
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  Speaker 4: now we've been told that the permits will be easy
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  Speaker 4: to get that people will have to go on to
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  Speaker 4: the Northern Land Council website, select where they want to
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  Speaker 4: go and might get permits for up to two weeks.
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  Speaker 4: So that could have some complications, but we really we've
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  Speaker 4: urged the Northern Land Council to do the best they can. Unfortunately,
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  Speaker 4: is happening over a time of year where it's not
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  Speaker 4: ideal and I would imagine staffing won't be full, certainly
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  Speaker 4: won't be full of AFAN, so we would encourage people
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  Speaker 4: to direct their inquiries to the Northern Land Council.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we did ask that of the Northern Lane
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  Speaker 1: Council whether it would only be a two week period.
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  Speaker 1: They had said that no, that wasn't the intention. You
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  Speaker 1: know that you'd be able to apply I think for
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  Speaker 1: different timeframes, but I guess the whole point is right now,
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  Speaker 1: there seems to be uncertainty right across the board and
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  Speaker 1: for a lot of people, as you've touched on, if
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  Speaker 1: they're keen to head out fishing and head out for
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  Speaker 1: a big trip, you know they want to make sure
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  Speaker 1: that they're doing the right thing because I do think
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  Speaker 1: that the majority of people actually want to make sure
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  Speaker 1: that they're respecting the rights of traditional owners. They're enjoying
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  Speaker 1: those waterways, enjoying fishing and enjoying our way of life
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  Speaker 1: in the territory.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right, Katie. I think you're spot on. That's
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  Speaker 4: certainly how most people feel. And I think the easier
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  Speaker 4: it is for people to do the right thing and
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  Speaker 4: the more consistent it is, the better the compliance is
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  Speaker 4: going to be.
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  Speaker 2: This is a big shift.
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  Speaker 4: Australians are used to being able to go fishing wherever
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  Speaker 4: they want, whenever they want. They're not used to waters
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  Speaker 4: being privately owned. Waters in the Northern Territory are privately
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  Speaker 4: owned in a way that doesn't exist in the rest
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  Speaker 4: of the country, so there is a big adjustment. But
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  Speaker 4: it's absolutely important that if people are visiting places like
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  Speaker 4: the Ropa River from January one.
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  Speaker 2: That they do go on and apply for a permit.
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  Speaker 4: I've been out there at the invitation of traditional owners
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  Speaker 4: to talk about the future of fishing. I can see
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  Speaker 4: a bright future for fishing there. I can see a
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  Speaker 4: certain pathway for access. I know there's been frustrations in community.
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  Speaker 4: What we don't want to do is add to the
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  Speaker 4: frustration by people doing the wrong thing and to change
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  Speaker 4: what is quite likely to be a good future negotiation
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  Speaker 4: into being a negative one because people haven't gone and
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  Speaker 4: got their permits. To make sure that people are doing
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  Speaker 4: the right thing, but also I would call on the
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  Speaker 4: Northern Land Council to make.
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  Speaker 2: Sure they're very clear and consistent.
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  Speaker 4: The briefings that we've had and the public statements haven't
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  Speaker 4: been consistent around the length of time early days, so
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  Speaker 4: let's give them a bit of a break on that.
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  Speaker 2: But when people go and get.
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  Speaker 4: Their permits, let's hope that those permits are very clear,
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  Speaker 4: very certain and not subject to change once people get them.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, and you know everybody's going to be wanting
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  Speaker 1: to make sure that they're doing the right thing, but
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  Speaker 1: wanting to make sure that it's an easy process and
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  Speaker 1: a very flexible and workable process. Otherwise you may find
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  Speaker 1: that people just go, oh, we'll buger it. I'm going
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  Speaker 1: out and I'm going fishing wherever I want to, which,
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  Speaker 1: as you've touched on, is you know, is not what we.
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  Speaker 3: Want to have happened.
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  Speaker 2: No, it's not what we want.
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  Speaker 4: If people have questions and concerns, look over the January
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  Speaker 4: and from now until the end of January, I would
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  Speaker 4: encourage them to engage with the Northern Land Council. Will
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  Speaker 4: be back on deck in earnest in February. From that
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  Speaker 4: time if people want to share their experiences with us,
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  Speaker 4: if there's anything we can take up. We talk to
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  Speaker 4: the Northern Land Council. We've been talking to them about
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  Speaker 4: the permit system. We will endeavor to engage on those things.
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  Speaker 4: There's some things we're already engaged on, things like who
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  Speaker 4: will people have to show their permits to, what will
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  Speaker 4: enforcement look like? And you know, are things likely to
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  Speaker 4: change into the future, So We are certainly working on that,
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  Speaker 4: but in the interim, people really do need to direct
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  Speaker 4: their questions to the Northern Land Council, who are the
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  Speaker 4: responsible Commonwealth statutory authority for the permits.
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  Speaker 1: I know the Northern Land Council did tell us as
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  Speaker 1: well on the show that the Government does really need
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  Speaker 1: to get back to the table and negotiate with them.
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  Speaker 1: From your perspective, how important is it that that happens.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, well, look's be on time. I think the frustration
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  Speaker 4: is palpable in all parts of the community, whether it's
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  Speaker 4: traditional loaners, or whether it's the recreational fishing community, whether
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  Speaker 4: it's the many businesses in the fishing tourism industry, whether
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  Speaker 4: it's the tackle shops, the huge amount of service industry
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  Speaker 4: that is supported, and you know, the hundreds of jobs
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  Speaker 4: that are supported by recreational fishing. All of this is
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  Speaker 4: hanging in the balance and it does feel, you know,
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  Speaker 4: like we've heard a lot of things around COVID and
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  Speaker 4: other things, but look, some of these areas are quite reachable.
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  Speaker 4: They're quite they're quite close to Darwin. We've all got
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  Speaker 4: technology these days. These negotiations or lack of negotiations has
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  Speaker 4: been going on for fourteen years.
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  Speaker 2: We're pass the time for excuses.
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  Speaker 4: And it really now, I mean, the government's got a
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  Speaker 4: couple of years left on its term or less. It's
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  Speaker 4: time to knuckle down and to see what is possible
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  Speaker 4: and to really thoroughly and properly explore that with an
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  Speaker 4: open mind, and to do that with the generous spirit
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  Speaker 4: as well, because we need to get this solved. We
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: know there's going to be someone will have to pay
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  Speaker 4: at some point, and you know, it might be all
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: the government, it might not be all the government, but
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: we need to have the detail in those conversations and
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  Speaker 4: it needs to progress from where it's been because it
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  Speaker 4: really hasn't been moving forward in an appropriate way.
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  Speaker 2: Well.
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  Speaker 1: And the thing is, you know, it's that uncertainty not
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: only for rereckfishes, but also for different business for different
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: tourism operators, you know, for those trying to you know,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: we obviously work in the seafood.
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  Speaker 3: Industry as well.
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  Speaker 1: Like it has an impact across so many different ways,
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  Speaker 1: which I think when we're talking about building the economy,
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  Speaker 1: we're talking about reaching forty billion dollar economy by twenty thirty.
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  Speaker 1: If you don't give people certainty, it makes it really
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  Speaker 1: bloody hard well.
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  Speaker 4: Talking down is a terrible thing for the economy, and
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  Speaker 4: we don't want to be talking down. There's a lot
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  Speaker 4: of things to celebrate in our community. There's a lot
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  Speaker 4: of things to celebrate in the fishing sector. Fishing sector,
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  Speaker 4: as I said, employees hundreds of people. The fishing sector
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  Speaker 4: is worth hundreds of millions of dollars to the territory economy,
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  Speaker 4: and it's part of the territory way of life. It
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: supports the mental health and well being of so many territories,
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  Speaker 4: and there is access certainty in a good number of
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  Speaker 4: places where people fish. There is a future of uncertainty
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  Speaker 4: because some of those places that have agreement will have
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: the need for new agreements as land claims are announced.
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  Speaker 2: There's also areas that are outstanding.
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  Speaker 4: We don't want to allow those outstanding things to overshadow
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  Speaker 4: the importance and significance of the sector that has been
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: happening for too long now, and I really hope we
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: can find a better way forward, draw a line under it,
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  Speaker 4: and move on and really start to celebrate all the
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: great things that going fishing and putting people in connection
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: with the wonderful environment that's in the northern territory and
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: really celebrate that as society and what it brings to society,
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: because it brings a lot.
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  Speaker 1: Well, David Girovolo, we always appreciate your time. Thank you
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  Speaker 1: very much for all the time you've given us throughout
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the year. I hope you have a merry Christmas and
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: no doubt we'll be talking in the new year.
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  Speaker 3: I'm sure about this very issue.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: Again, Thanks Katie, thanks for your interest and at Merry
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: Christmas to all your listeners as well.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Thank you