Latest / The Parenting Podcast / The Strength of Autonomy: Permissive parenting | Ep. 122

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The Strength of Autonomy: Permissive parenting | Ep. 122 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  Hello to all you wonderful parents and welcome back to the Parenting podcast.
• 0:12
  I'm Cheryl Lang, your host.
• 0:15
  In our current series on parenting styles, our goal is to foster understanding and appreciation of the diverse perspectives and choices in parenting.
• 0:27
  Today.
• 0:28
  We're exploring permissive parenting, where freedom and choice take precedence.
• 0:35
  Join us as we navigate the terrain of empowerment, embracing both its joys and its challenges.
• 0:43
  So glad you've joined us.
• 0:45
  Let's jump into the discussion.
• 0:55
  Cheryl: Well, good morning to the two of you.
• 0:57
  Cheryl: Good morning.
• 0:58
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 0:58
  Cheryl: You know, it's warm outside, but my fingers are cold.
• 1:01
  Cheryl: This studio is freezing.
• 1:03
  Cheryl: The podcasting
• 1:03
  Ellen: room's cold.
• 1:04
  Ellen: Well,
• 1:05
  Cheryl: I think it's supposed to be kind of warm this afternoon, but they have got it cranked up in here.
• 1:09
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 1:09
  Christie: They're prepared.
• 1:10
  Christie: That's the problem with summers.
• 1:11
  Christie: All the buildings keep so cold.
• 1:13
  Cheryl: And they probably
• 1:13
  Ellen: have to keep this equipment cooler, too.
• 1:16
  Ellen: It could be.
• 1:17
  Cheryl: It could be.
• 1:18
  Cheryl: All right.
• 1:18
  Cheryl: So, I don't even know if y'all know what I'm getting ready to tell you.
• 1:22
  Cheryl: Oh.
• 1:23
  Cheryl: Um, something I'm interested in, and y'all just don't even, you'll recognize the words, but you
• 1:29
  Carol: may not care.
• 1:30
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 1:30
  Cheryl: So, we live in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, right?
• 1:33
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 1:34
  Cheryl: All right.
• 1:34
  Cheryl: And so we have a National Basketball Association team called the Thunder.
• 1:39
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 1:40
  Cheryl: All right.
• 1:40
  Cheryl: See, she does that.
• 1:41
  Cheryl: I do know that.
• 1:43
  Cheryl: We're with you so far.
• 1:45
  Cheryl: But they just took the number one seed in the Western Conference.
• 1:51
  Cheryl: I heard about that.
• 1:52
  Cheryl: Okay, and it's I don't know what it means, but I did hear about it.
• 1:55
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: See, so it's really competitive and all of this.
• 1:59
  Cheryl: We are the youngest team ever in the history of basketball to get the number one seed.
• 2:04
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 2:05
  Ellen: Are you saying seat or seed?
• 2:07
  Cheryl: Seed.
• 2:08
  Cheryl: Like in the tournament to play off to see who's going to be number one in the country.
• 2:12
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 2:13
  Cheryl: And so it's just really great.
• 2:15
  Cheryl: We're really excited.
• 2:16
  Cheryl: The attitude and you would love it.
• 2:18
  Cheryl: Love the culture that there is around it, rather than the super hype basketball, they're all together.
• 2:25
  Cheryl: They're these young guys And Oklahoma's
• 2:28
  Ellen: really proud.
• 2:29
  Christie: We are
• 2:29
  Ellen: very proud of them, they
• 2:31
  Christie: sure are.
• 2:31
  Christie: This is, this is where I come onto the scene with sports.
• 2:35
  Christie: Like, when it's good.
• 2:36
  Christie: Good and they're excited and they're doing well.
• 2:38
  Christie: This is my my time to play.
• 2:41
  Cheryl: And our coach Mark Dugnell just got selected coach of the year of everybody.
• 2:47
  Cheryl: Wow, that's
• 2:47
  Christie: great.
• 2:48
  Ellen: You can tell we pay attention.
• 2:51
  Cheryl: So there's just a lot of good things going on.
• 2:54
  Christie: Okay.
• 2:54
  Christie: Well, I'm excited now.
• 2:55
  Christie: If I'm going to watch a sport, it's usually basketball.
• 2:57
  Christie: I like football too, but
• 2:58
  Ellen: it's exciting.
• 2:59
  Christie: It's more about gathering people for me.
• 3:03
  Cheryl: So here at TPP, we're in the middle of a series on parenting styles, you know, and so, we're kind of covering about four basic styles for the pros and cons, what it might look like, and not to the exclusiveness, but what is the focus?
• 3:21
  Cheryl: What's the lens or the perspective?
• 3:25
  Cheryl: That's the why the parents are doing what they're doing and how they make their choices.
• 3:30
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 3:31
  Cheryl: Depending on which one, we want more autonomy, we want more control, we care more about their emotions.
• 3:38
  Cheryl: And so that's why we're going through the different styles.
• 3:41
  Cheryl: not to say, this is what we think you should do, but evaluate and what works well for your children, your family, and your situation.
• 3:48
  Cheryl: Yeah,
• 3:48
  Ellen: and one's not better than the other.
• 3:50
  Ellen: It's just what fits for your family and your personalities.
• 3:53
  Ellen: Yes.
• 3:54
  Cheryl: And lifestyle.
• 3:55
  Cheryl: All of that.
• 3:56
  Cheryl: All right.
• 3:57
  Cheryl: Today we're going to talk about one, and I know some people that, identify with this particular style and they really bristle at the title that's been given.
• 4:06
  Cheryl: Yep.
• 4:07
  Cheryl: Permissive parenting.
• 4:09
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:09
  Cheryl: You know, they, they go, well, that's not what it is.
• 4:12
  Cheryl: That's not the focus.
• 4:14
  Cheryl: Um, our focus is more on the autonomy and the independence of the children instead of superimposing our authority.
• 4:23
  Cheryl: I would say to this group, authority is a very negative word.
• 4:28
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 4:28
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:29
  Cheryl: Because their, their lens is the independence.
• 4:33
  Cheryl: of that individual person, and that we're all of equal value, and we want to show that kind of respect and honor, even to young children.
• 4:43
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:44
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:44
  Christie: So they're kind of approaching it as drawing out of the child what their, what their interests would be, what their preferences would be.
• 4:53
  Christie: Right.
• 4:54
  Christie: Giving them autonomy in that way.
• 4:55
  Cheryl: Yes Respecting and elevating that autonomy, instead of superimposing my will, my control, which is a reaction to, uh, what someone would say authoritarian parenting.
• 5:08
  Cheryl: Right.
• 5:08
  Cheryl: So it's a
• 5:09
  Ellen: you choose.
• 5:10
  Ellen: You make choices.
• 5:11
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 5:11
  Cheryl: Choice is huge.
• 5:13
  Cheryl: way high on their values.
• 5:15
  Cheryl: That's good, Ellen.
• 5:16
  Cheryl: what other values or things would you say typifies this, autonomy or permissive parenting I
• 5:24
  Christie: think respect for the child, making sure everything you do or say is respectful to their children would be a big part of this.
• 5:34
  Ellen: And, and maybe believing that their children, you know, will make good choices.
• 5:39
  Ellen: Good.
• 5:40
  Ellen: Because you've laid a foundation for that
• 5:42
  Cheryl: with a lot of low control, you know, fewer rules, fewer restrictions, certainly avoiding a lot of discipline and structure to give that child, you know,
• 5:57
  Ellen: sort of structure themselves.
• 5:59
  Cheryl: Yeah, that they will structure themselves given the right environment.
• 6:02
  Cheryl: I think they would say that there's more open communication, right?
• 6:07
  Cheryl: Because instead of being, I'm the parent and you are the child.
• 6:11
  Cheryl: Mm-Hmm, It's more of a peer relationship.
• 6:14
  Ellen: What do you think, how, how would you decide, how does this make you feel, decide to do this, you know?
• 6:18
  Ellen: Mm-Hmm.
• 6:18
  Cheryl: which shows a lot of respect, right?
• 6:20
  Christie: Well, I think there's a high emphasis on, um.
• 6:24
  Christie: Um, freedom for the child lack of boundaries or, or very loose boundaries, maybe in the area of physical safety, there's some, but, um, giving the child freedom of choice, freedom of interest and letting them lead in their choices.
• 6:42
  Cheryl: Listening to that, all of this sounds very intriguing and positive.
• 6:47
  Cheryl: Right,
• 6:48
  Ellen: right.
• 6:49
  Ellen: Because that's what we want as adults.
• 6:52
  Ellen: Right, right.
• 6:53
  Christie: I think, um, with this, some of the motivation is to give the child a high self esteem.
• 6:59
  Christie: Okay.
• 7:00
  Christie: Um, and give them confidence in their own, feelings of self, maybe, empowering the child.
• 7:06
  Christie: Oh, that's a really good, um, Yeah.
• 7:08
  Cheryl: Um, they might really like that title, Empowering Parenting, rather than Permissive, and I think that would capture the philosophy of what they're talking about, because, that's why, They mostly use positive reinforcement.
• 7:22
  Cheryl: Uh, the word no isn't said a lot.
• 7:26
  Cheryl: Right.
• 7:26
  Cheryl: Because that's superimposing what I think, instead of empowering you to make the right choice.
• 7:32
  Cheryl: Right.
• 7:33
  Christie: Yes.
• 7:33
  Christie: Like, I've heard, you know, instead of saying, don't run with the scissors, saying, you know, use your walking feet.
• 7:40
  Christie: It's, it's, it's spun in the positive, uh, Positive command or directive, rather than what the negative would be.
• 7:48
  Christie: Stop
• 7:49
  Cheryl: writing with scissors! Right?
• 7:51
  Cheryl: I, I, I think empowering, I'd really like that, using that term, because if you look at the way, particularly, go back 20, 30 years, and in the past, children were told, don't sit, don't, don't, don't, the old, Be seen and not heard.
• 8:08
  Cheryl: And it, it was very parent centric.
• 8:12
  Cheryl: Mm-Hmm.
• 8:13
  Cheryl: And that parents are the authority and you're to do what they say and you're to obey and there will be a consequences you've done.
• 8:19
  Cheryl: Right.
• 8:20
  Cheryl: And, and then that
• 8:21
  Ellen: transfers into adulthood that the government and your boss and all the people around you dictate you know how to live because you have to be under someone's authority.
• 8:32
  Ellen: Right.
• 8:32
  Ellen: Which
• 8:32
  Christie: can That's really cool, can lead a child and an adult.
• 8:35
  Christie: feel some bitterness and resentfulness towards authority when you're so restricted.
• 8:41
  Christie: Right.
• 8:41
  Christie: So I can see where this would be, um, that empowering would be really attractive to give to your child.
• 8:47
  Cheryl: And, and I could see it leaning to being a free thinker.
• 8:50
  Cheryl: Right.
• 8:51
  Cheryl: That we're not going to tell you what you believe.
• 8:53
  Cheryl: We're not even going to tell you that you have to eat your vegetables.
• 8:57
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 8:57
  Cheryl: What we want to do is foster a home and an environment.
• 9:02
  Cheryl: And so that you want to eat your vegetables, and you're doing it because you want to do it.
• 9:08
  Cheryl: And that's your own self identification as a person.
• 9:11
  Christie: Promotes creativity.
• 9:12
  Christie: Mm
• 9:13
  ?: hmm.
• 9:13
  Christie: There's also a little bit of overlap with the style we talked about last time with attachment parenting, where that it does focus a lot on the child's emotional needs and emotional, um, status.
• 9:25
  Christie: Mm hmm.
• 9:25
  Christie: That's true.
• 9:26
  Cheryl: like we said, respect.
• 9:27
  Cheryl: Also, um, I think one of the motivations is to avoid conflict.
• 9:32
  Cheryl: because where do you have conflict with children is when you tell them to do something.
• 9:37
  Cheryl: Uh, whatever age it would be.
• 9:39
  Cheryl: And, that the viewpoint would be, if we're avoiding conflict, then we're going have a more harmonious, integrated, loving family situation, to nurture, working together and cooperation.
• 9:54
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:55
  Christie: I think there's a strong drive to focus on the child's happiness above all else.
• 10:02
  Christie: Yeah, that's a really good point.
• 10:03
  Christie: That's, that's the primary goal is that your child would feel happy and would have a happy life and feel seen and loved and validated.
• 10:13
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:13
  Cheryl: And self esteem would come with that, that instead of someone telling you, no, you don't know what you're doing, I'm the authority, you have to listen to me, that you're empowering that child so they realize.
• 10:26
  Cheryl: I have a choice.
• 10:28
  Cheryl: I don't like blue and I don't want to have any blue clothes and that they can
• 10:34
  Carol: say I feel good because I get to choose my own clothes.
• 10:38
  Cheryl: And
• 10:38
  Ellen: we all need that.
• 10:39
  Ellen: That is an important part whether you're a child or an adult, you feel like you have some choices.
• 10:44
  Ellen: And that, you know, they're criticism free, and you decide it on your own, and that's a good skill to learn, the skill of learning to choose and make choices for yourself.
• 10:53
  Christie: Mm hmm.
• 10:54
  Christie: Yeah, I'm thinking of, I thought early in my parenting that my children would always be You know dressed in lovely coordinated out That there yeah, I had all these thoughts of what Halloween costumes they'd have and all the different visions I had about his And it did not take long before I realized they had opinions.
• 11:17
  Christie: Yes, you had a choice.
• 11:18
  Christie: I do not like
• 11:19
  Ellen: those.
• 11:19
  Ellen: Yes.
• 11:20
  Ellen: That color.
• 11:21
  Ellen: Right.
• 11:21
  Christie: And I had one of my girls was a very expressive dresser.
• 11:27
  Christie: And we went Um, anywhere and everywhere in mixed match animal prints and hot pink sunglasses and, and it was, it was, it, it really was fun to see her personality coming out in the way she chose to dress.
• 11:43
  Christie: And I think that's probably something that would be celebrated by, you know, a person looking into permissive parenting.
• 11:49
  Cheryl: Yeah, because they value exploration.
• 11:53
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 11:53
  Cheryl: Expression.
• 11:54
  Cheryl: Right.
• 11:54
  Cheryl: Absolutely.
• 11:55
  Cheryl: You know, you're an artist.
• 11:56
  Ellen: Yeah, and that's really important to me.
• 11:58
  Ellen: I don't want to look like everyone else, just like do everything everyone else is doing.
• 12:03
  Ellen: And I remember even as a kid, if everybody was going to the right, I would go to the left.
• 12:07
  Ellen: Even if I got in trouble for it, you know, because why would I go with everybody else?
• 12:11
  Ellen: And
• 12:12
  Cheryl: so if you had had this kind of environment, you could have flourished.
• 12:16
  Cheryl: And I
• 12:17
  Ellen: did when I had certain teachers that appreciated that quality in me.
• 12:21
  Ellen: And so I was fortunate through junior high and high school that there were enough teachers that went, Oh, she's kind of not thinking like the group, let's talk to her and input into her life.
• 12:31
  Ellen: And so I had three or four teachers that were really wonderful that way because my family was very authoritarian
• 12:38
  Cheryl: and very strict.
• 12:39
  Cheryl: And so what you're describing is the motivation for a lot of these parents to embrace this You're individuality celebrated and promoted, yes, and helped you become the Ellen that you are.
• 12:54
  Cheryl: That's what's behind all of this philosophy
• 12:57
  Christie: and what a great trait to have to resist peer pressure when the crowd is going a direction that you wouldn't want a child to go.
• 13:05
  Christie: That's, that's, that's a great trait.
• 13:06
  Christie: What we all want is for our kids to stand up to the bad influences that might be surrounding them.
• 13:11
  Christie: But it doesn't always
• 13:12
  Ellen: please your parents because your parents want you to do not the bad stuff, but they want you to conform and you're going uh uh, I don't want to do it that way.
• 13:19
  Ellen: Right.
• 13:20
  Ellen: And they're very upset because you're not marching to the same drummer.
• 13:24
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 13:24
  Cheryl: Because you know,, as a culture, the United States values individualism and the individual.
• 13:32
  Cheryl: And so that's what these parents are wanting to do is say, we want to promote that even in our family.
• 13:38
  Cheryl: So fewer regulations, fewer restrictions, positive reinforcement, all of that, trying to do this for the benefit of the child.
• 13:46
  ?: Mm hmm.
• 13:47
  Cheryl: And there's that fine balance.
• 13:50
  Cheryl: There we go.
• 13:51
  Cheryl: Okay, so these are some of the very positive aspects.
• 13:54
  Cheryl: Y'all, what are some of the concerns or negatives that might come out of focusing with this as your lens of how you see your children, your family, your parenting, your kids.
• 14:05
  Cheryl: all that.
• 14:07
  Christie: Well, the first con I think of is, if everyone's doing what they feel like they want to do, and we're all living under one roof, at what point do we start tiptoeing on each other's territory?
• 14:18
  Christie: Yeah.
• 14:18
  Christie: Or stomping.
• 14:19
  Christie: If you have more than one child.
• 14:20
  Christie: Yeah, stomping is a good word.
• 14:21
  Christie: Yeah, stomping on each
• 14:22
  ?: other.
• 14:23
  Christie: Yeah, I mean, if you have more than one child or more than one person under the roof, then it, it's not going to be very long before we start, um, realizing.
• 14:33
  Christie: There has to be some amount of structure and boundaries in order to respect one another.
• 14:39
  Cheryl: That's really hard to try and to avoid that because if I'm a parent who has this view, that restricts the individuality of each person expressing themself and the, Yes, because we're living in a culture and a relationship.
• 14:55
  Cheryl: also with the, uh, Lifting of the individual, there's still, um, um, concerns for the lack of structure.
• 15:03
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 15:03
  Cheryl: That we know children do well with structure.
• 15:08
  Cheryl: But if you remove too much, at what point is it detrimental rather than encouraging?
• 15:14
  Cheryl: Right.
• 15:14
  Cheryl: Well, because
• 15:14
  Ellen: if they're maybe the kind of kid that doesn't like to participate in a lot of stuff.
• 15:18
  Ellen: Okay.
• 15:18
  Ellen: And you're kind of I don't want to do that.
• 15:21
  Ellen: I don't want to, I don't want to play soccer.
• 15:23
  Ellen: I don't want to go here.
• 15:24
  Ellen: I don't want to go there.
• 15:25
  Ellen: And you're being permissive about that.
• 15:27
  Ellen: They never learn how to do that kind of function.
• 15:31
  Ellen: And
• 15:31
  Christie: it seems like freedom to give a child that much choice, but I think it's actually more pressure because a child doesn't.
• 15:43
  Christie: Have the ability, the wisdom, the foresight, the perspective
• 15:49
  Ellen: to
• 15:49
  Christie: be able to make all of their choices for themselves.
• 15:52
  Christie: Because
• 15:52
  Ellen: we can barely do it.
• 15:54
  Ellen: Right.
• 15:54
  Ellen: And
• 15:55
  Christie: so that could leave a child feeling really insecure, not having any boundaries of wisdom set for them that, oh, I know it's all up to me.
• 16:05
  Cheryl: Well, also, I think we agree, and I personally in my life and my parenting, consequences are our friends.
• 16:13
  Cheryl: And so this, um, style says, well, but we want natural consequences to be used.
• 16:21
  Cheryl: yes, But the problem is, like you're saying, there's so much freedom that, uh, I could see a lot of
• 16:28
  Carol: issues arising because they have.
• 16:31
  Carol: extensive freedom to do what they want and to make their decision, and they haven't had lots of direction consequences imposed on them.
• 16:38
  Ellen: Or you know, that's part of childhood.
• 16:40
  Ellen: You don't recognize, don't think about consequences.
• 16:43
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 16:43
  Ellen: You usually just respond or react.
• 16:45
  Ellen: Right.
• 16:46
  Ellen: And consequences eventually become a word in your vocabulary, but, you know, a lot of times they have to be imposed in the early years by the parent.
• 16:54
  Christie: Well, yeah, because the child hasn't lived enough life to even know what the consequences might be.
• 16:59
  Christie: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:00
  Christie: Exactly.
• 17:00
  Christie: Coming down the road.
• 17:01
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:01
  Cheryl: Well, I've heard, watched and listened and read about parents that look at parenting through this grid and they say, well, what we want to do is have positive reinforcement and not bring in the negative because of what we've talked about.
• 17:19
  Cheryl: And then I've watched this in action.
• 17:23
  Cheryl: And so that's really nice.
• 17:25
  Cheryl: If you want them, you don't care, like you're talking about the creative clothes and that doesn't matter.
• 17:30
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Cheryl: But the child's sitting in the car seat in a car, you know, that's just a setup confrontation, right?
• 17:37
  Cheryl: You can't say well, we'll just stay in the Target parking lot until you decide to put on your your Seatbelt, so I really see this kind of limitation Or the limited, or I
• 17:51
  Ellen: don't wanna wear shoes.
• 17:52
  Ellen: Well, it's 110 outside the sidewalk's hot.
• 17:55
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 17:55
  Ellen: And you wind up having to carry them because they chose not to wear shoes.
• 18:00
  Cheryl: Mm-Hmm.
• 18:00
  Cheryl: But also what I see in these situations where there's a pressure where we have to get in the car seat.
• 18:07
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:07
  Cheryl: We have to go, instead of allowing the autonomy to develop in positive reinforcement, you, what I've seen happen is bribery.
• 18:17
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:17
  Christie: Yes
• 18:18
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 18:18
  Cheryl: You know?
• 18:19
  Cheryl: Mm-Hmm.
• 18:20
  Cheryl: That there's kind of bribery.
• 18:21
  Cheryl: If you'll put your seatbelt on, you know, we'll drive through and get you an ice cream cone.
• 18:27
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:28
  Christie: I'm curious, Cheryl, if a person with this parenting philosophy might say, it's not bribery, it's more incentive.
• 18:35
  Christie: Oh.
• 18:36
  Christie: And that might be a switch in the mind of giving an incentive instead of bribery.
• 18:42
  Christie: And I'm curious, what do you think are the differences?
• 18:45
  Christie: That's
• 18:45
  Cheryl: my question to you.
• 18:46
  Ellen: What's
• 18:47
  Cheryl: the
• 18:47
  Ellen: difference?
• 18:47
  Ellen: I was just going to say, an incentive comes before a bribery comes during.
• 18:53
  Ellen: Okay.
• 18:53
  Ellen: So explain that.
• 18:54
  Ellen: So in other words.
• 18:56
  Ellen: You know, you want to say to your child, because we always had a thing with shoes.
• 18:59
  Ellen: My kids never wanted to wear shoes.
• 19:00
  Ellen: Mine too, Ellen.
• 19:01
  Ellen: It's not just you.
• 19:02
  Ellen: Mine neither.
• 19:03
  Ellen: We're wearing shoes today.
• 19:05
  Ellen: The incentive is put your shoes on and we can get going and then when we're done, we'll go through McDonald's.
• 19:13
  Ellen: Bribery is, if you put your shoes on, we're going to McDonald's.
• 19:18
  Ellen: And does that mean, am I saying that
• 19:20
  Christie: enough?
• 19:20
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:20
  Christie: I think it comes down to control.
• 19:22
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:23
  Christie: You know, who has the control in this?
• 19:25
  Christie: So
• 19:25
  Cheryl: expand on that.
• 19:26
  Christie: Well, I think bribery is begging the child to do something, but the child has control
• 19:33
  Carol: Right.
• 19:34
  Christie: Yes.
• 19:34
  Christie: They, they surely are empowered.
• 19:36
  Christie: And you're begging them to do what you need them to do, where incentives are, are I think more appropriately placed on things that you're indifferent on, you know, things that it's, it's up to you if you choose to do this or not.
• 19:53
  Christie: not something that's imperative that this child has to accomplish.
• 19:56
  Ellen: I think incentives are kind of set up beforehand that this is okay.
• 20:00
  Ellen: Everybody get your shoes on.
• 20:01
  Ellen: We're going to go do this thing.
• 20:03
  Ellen: And then afterwards we can go to McDonald's rather than the bribery of get your shoes on I promise I'll take you to McDonald's.
• 20:09
  Ellen: Right.
• 20:10
  Ellen: Or,
• 20:10
  Christie: you know, the thing is going to get done regardless.
• 20:13
  Christie: But if it does in a timely fashion, you know, if we get the house cleaned by three o'clock we can go for ice cream.
• 20:20
  Christie: And seeing,
• 20:21
  Cheryl: I see that as a positive use of this
• 20:24
  Carol: approach.
• 20:25
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 20:25
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:26
  Cheryl: I just see that.
• 20:27
  Cheryl: The reality of individuals under this kind of thing, there's so many confrontations, not just in two year olds getting in their car seat, but all the way up
• 20:39
  Ellen: Right.
• 20:40
  Ellen: You have to be trained to know how to make choices.
• 20:42
  Ellen: Right.
• 20:43
  Ellen: You know, how to think through, how do I make a choice?
• 20:45
  Christie: And it has to be age appropriate in, in increments.
• 20:50
  Christie: You know, the, the place where I intervene when they're young is going to be much, much Sooner than when they're older on natural consequences.
• 20:58
  Christie: Yes.
• 20:58
  Christie: So my, my 5-year-old, I might step in with the knife as they're learning to chop vegetables.
• 21:06
  Christie: Yes.
• 21:06
  Christie: A lot sooner than with my 17-year-old.
• 21:09
  Christie: You know, I might let the natural consequences come.
• 21:11
  Christie: Yeah.
• 21:12
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 21:13
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:13
  Cheryl: And I also see.
• 21:15
  Cheryl: The positives of building this autonomy and giving them the opportunity to explore.
• 21:21
  Cheryl: But when you start moving into more structured environments, say school and academics, it's jobs, jobs, there are all kinds of boundaries and restrictions in that.
• 21:33
  Cheryl: And I think that this might foster a rebellion against any of that authority.
• 21:40
  Cheryl: Or struggling within a school system, which is reward and failure, that they might have trouble in the academic area, not because of their abilities, but because of the, I don't have to do
• 21:54
  Christie: this, I don't have to do this, I don't, I don't feel like it.
• 21:56
  Christie: And we do have to be mindful.
• 21:58
  Christie: In lots of ways of the culture our children are going to grow up to be adults in.
• 22:03
  ?: Yeah.
• 22:03
  Christie: And ideally, it would be lovely for our kids to live some kind of, you know, happy go lucky.
• 22:10
  Christie: Where
• 22:11
  Ellen: everyone cared about their emotional well being.
• 22:13
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 22:14
  Christie: But the reality is this, you know, we have to look at what their culture is going to look like at 18, 20, 25 years old.
• 22:21
  Cheryl: So how would, if someone that really gets into this and they don't want to say no, They want to respect the autonomy and positive reinforcement.
• 22:31
  Cheryl: Very few restrictions and boundaries.
• 22:34
  Cheryl: Always, always.
• 22:35
  Cheryl: Uh, recognizing and elevating the autonomy and independence of that child.
• 22:41
  Cheryl: So how would that affect the releasing process and future?
• 22:46
  Ellen: Well, and so you're saying to your child, okay, it's going to be your choice.
• 22:50
  Ellen: Now, how do you want to make that choice?
• 22:52
  Ellen: Right.
• 22:52
  Ellen: Here are the options.
• 22:54
  Ellen: You can do this and this.
• 22:55
  Christie: You still have to know the
• 22:56
  Ellen: rules.
• 22:56
  Ellen: You're equipping
• 22:57
  Christie: them.
• 22:57
  Christie: Yes.
• 22:58
  Christie: To whom much is given, much is, is required.
• 23:01
  Christie: And so you're preparing them for the freedom of autonomy with knowledge, insight,
• 23:08
  Cheryl: what a really, really good input to bring into this.
• 23:13
  Cheryl: What else do you see, how does this play out in the releasing?
• 23:17
  Christie: Well, I think just like with, um, attachment parenting.
• 23:22
  Christie: You're setting them up for disappointment in how adult life works.
• 23:26
  Christie: Um, the world is not going to cater to them the way that this style of parenting
• 23:33
  Cheryl: seems to.
• 23:34
  Cheryl: Yeah, when you look at what research says, it tends to make entitled People and in the big picture of, releasing and integrating as a full member of society and all of that entitlement isn't a quality that I would want my children to
• 23:55
  Carol: have
• 23:55
  Cheryl: Right.
• 23:56
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 23:57
  Carol: because
• 23:57
  Ellen: you want your home to be a shelter from the storm.
• 24:00
  Ellen: That's true.
• 24:01
  Ellen: To use a quote there, but, um, they're going into a storm, and how much is is permissive parenting providing the tools so that they can weather the storm?
• 24:13
  Ellen: Because nobody's going to care in the workplace whether their emotional needs are met or not.
• 24:18
  Cheryl: That's good.
• 24:19
  Cheryl: Well, these are really great points.
• 24:20
  Cheryl: I love what, how y'all said, if this is the way you want to run your family and have it because there's such strength there.
• 24:29
  Cheryl: I love your way of, be sure that you're having the conversations.
• 24:33
  Cheryl: And Even if the child makes a hundred percent, which is impossible, as much as possible, their own autonomous choices, that you're having the conversation about why you would choose this or that, or when they get their own consequences to have all the conversations.
• 24:51
  Cheryl: Because as we've said, children are immature.
• 24:53
  Cheryl: It's going to take a long time before they can think through that for themselves.
• 24:57
  Cheryl: Right.
• 24:58
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 24:58
  Cheryl: These have been great.
• 24:59
  Cheryl: Thank you so much.
• 25:01
  Cheryl: Sure And I look forward to next time yes, hey, parents, remember.
• 25:06
  Cheryl: Remember.
• 25:06
  Cheryl: Hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering, because it's worth it.
• 25:16
  As we wrap up our exploration of permissive parenting, I encourage you to think about the unique strengths inherent in this approach and how they might align with your personal parenting philosophy.
• 25:30
  Now, let's delve deeper into the concept of Of empowerment within the family dynamic.
• 25:39
  Here at the recording studio, we grappled with this very notion.
• 25:44
  Striking that delicate balance between granting our children autonomy while offering them the structure and correction they require to flourish.
• 25:56
  So I'm asking you, what specific step or adjustment could you make towards bringing this kind of balance into your daily pattern?
• 26:06
  and lifestyle.
• 26:07
  Remember, the conversation doesn't stop here.
• 26:11
  No, at TPP it's just the continuation of our journey towards deeper understanding and growth together.
• 26:19
  Join us in our next episode as we continue to investigate new perspectives on parenting styles, each one offering its own benefits and challenges.
• 26:31
  We want to hear from you, to learn from your experiences, and to grow together as a community of parents navigating the beautiful yet complex terrain of raising children.
• 26:42
  So, reach out to us through our website, engage with us on the social media platforms, or simply drop us a line.
• 26:50
  Contact at TheParentingPodcast.
• 26:53
  com Until next time, let's parent with grace.
• 26:59
  Love, and a healthy dose of laughter.
• 27:03
  See you soon.