Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing Transcript (Day 4 Part 1) (10/9/26)

Transcript

Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing Transcript (Day 4 Part 1) (10/9/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to keep the Tyler Robinson story going,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: and we're going to begin taking a look at day
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: number four of the prelim hearing transcripts. Judge Graff gets
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: things going. All right, as you've probably come to expect,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I do need to read the following as it relates
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: to today's preliminary hearing. The court's mindful of the safety
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: and well-being of all parties, counsel, witnesses, court staff, and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: members of the public who may be present. The court
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: is also mindful of its duty to protect and uphold
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  Speaker 1: the constitutional rights of both Mr. Robinson and Mr. Kirk,
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  Speaker 1: or Miss Kirk, excuse me. To serve those important interests,
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  Speaker 1: the court reminds all persons who will be in attendance
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  Speaker 1: that portable electronic devices will not be permitted in the
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  Speaker 1: courtroom or on the fourth floor. And this prohibition does
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: not apply to legal counsel and support staff for the
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: defense or the state or the media in this matter
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  Speaker 1: or the equipment permitted under any controlling electronic media coverage
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  Speaker 1: order and includes the counsel for victim, Representative Miss Kirk.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I do ask the party's attorneys if you will join
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  Speaker 1: me in turning off your ringer to ensure that we
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  Speaker 1: do not have any interruptions. So I'm turning off my ringer,
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  Speaker 1: and I invite you to do the same. Every person
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  Speaker 1: who's in attendance today, and every day, will be afforded
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  Speaker 1: the dignity and respect due to them. And pursuant to
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  Speaker 1: the standing decorum order by the court, all spectators shall
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  Speaker 1: be quiet, civil, and orderly. Spectators shall not engage in
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  Speaker 1: any distracting, disruptive, provocative, disrespectful, uncivil, or threatening behavior of
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  Speaker 1: any kind. Spectators shall not make any audible comments of
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  Speaker 1: any kind, shall not shake or nod their heads, shall
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  Speaker 1: not otherwise make any gestures during the hearing. Spectators shall
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  Speaker 1: not wear or display pins, buttons, signs, clothing, or photographs
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  Speaker 1: expressing support for or against spectators. any person related to
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  Speaker 1: this case or the status of the case as a
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  Speaker 1: capital offense. All right, as we begin the morning, I've
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: taken a lot of time to think about the comments
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  Speaker 1: made by the parties yesterday. And there were additional briefings
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  Speaker 1: and motions filed last night. And the court took the
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  Speaker 1: necessary time to readdress it and look at it and
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  Speaker 1: be prepared for this morning's proceedings. While I recognize especially
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  Speaker 1: how precious our time is, I also recognize that I
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  Speaker 1: need to be prepared for everything that's before me and
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  Speaker 1: I took the time this morning to review what was
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  Speaker 1: filed since we adjourned yesterday until we've come back on
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  Speaker 1: the record. On the motions filed last night was filed
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  Speaker 1: by Ms. Erica Kirk's attorney, and I wish to address that.
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  Speaker 1: And I realize that the parties may not have had
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  Speaker 1: a chance for defense or prosecution had a chance to
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  Speaker 1: respond to that. And before I address that, I wish
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  Speaker 1: to turn the time to you if you need the
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  Speaker 1: benefit of the record as it relates to what the
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  Speaker 1: court filed or what was filed by the attorney this
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  Speaker 1: for Victim Representative Erica Kirk to the state. First up,
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  Speaker 1: Christopher Ballard. Good morning, Your Honor. Christopher Ballard on behalf
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  Speaker 1: of the state. We've reviewed that filing, and we believe
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  Speaker 1: that it fully accords with our position in our filing
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  Speaker 1: this morning that publishing exhibits in the courtroom is entirely
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  Speaker 1: appropriate and indeed honors the victim representative's right to be
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  Speaker 1: present at the hearing. Judge Graff, thank you, Mr. Ballard.
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  Speaker 1: To the defense, Mr. Novak. Thank you, Your Honor. I
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  Speaker 1: read the pleading. I believe that every order that this
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  Speaker 1: court has made to date complies with the respect to
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  Speaker 1: the victim's rights under the Utah Constitution. I think that
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  Speaker 1: the rulings that the court has made the last few
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  Speaker 1: days do so. And I don't believe that the issue
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  Speaker 1: that are presently before the court going forward with the
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  Speaker 1: hearing with respect to exhibits in what I'll just call
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  Speaker 1: the 16 series interfere with any of the enumerated rights
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  Speaker 1: set forth in the Utah Constitution in concerning the rights
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  Speaker 1: of a victim representative in any criminal proceeding. So that's
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  Speaker 1: our position. And look, I want to be very mindful
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  Speaker 1: of timing issues because we spent a lot of time
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  Speaker 1: arguing without the court having the benefit of briefing yesterday.
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  Speaker 1: But we have witnesses we have to get to, including
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  Speaker 1: a defense witness who was not available after tonight. So
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  Speaker 1: I could, of course, as your honor knows, say much more,
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  Speaker 1: but the court has all the briefing and I think
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  Speaker 1: we should move forward. Judge Graff, Thank you. And as
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  Speaker 1: it relates to transparency and publication, does the news media
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  Speaker 1: wish to be heard on the issue? Media, only briefly,
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  Speaker 1: Your Honor. I've also reviewed the submission from yesterday. The
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  Speaker 1: court has always set this three-step process, and taking each
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  Speaker 1: of those stages, admissibility, publication to the courtroom, and coverage
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  Speaker 1: by the in-court cameras, are three separate inquiries. Of course,
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  Speaker 1: the media will be the party who stands here at
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  Speaker 1: this lectern, and says we believe we should see as
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  Speaker 1: much as possible. We're maximalists in the way we recognize
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  Speaker 1: the importance of protecting all the rights, including fair trial rights.
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  Speaker 1: But the idea of publishing something or keeping something off
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  Speaker 1: of the cameras at the rear of the courtroom, but
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  Speaker 1: publishing it to those who are present here, also is
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  Speaker 1: a meaningful step towards transparency. And to the extent that
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  Speaker 1: the court is not comfortable with placing something on the
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  Speaker 1: video feed, The media does believe that allowing the media
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  Speaker 1: representative who are here and the members of the public
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  Speaker 1: who are here to view that, even if those watching
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  Speaker 1: on a live stream cannot, is a meaningful victory for transparency,
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  Speaker 1: and of course we support that. Judge Graff, thank you, alright.
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  Speaker 1: Moving to the state, Your Honor, the state would like
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  Speaker 1: to be heard on the briefing briefly. The briefing that
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  Speaker 1: was submitted last night. Judge Graff, alright, so I want
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  Speaker 1: to address the motion filed by the attorney for the
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  Speaker 1: victim representative and then we'll transition to that. I'm just
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  Speaker 1: trying to do it incrementally so we can get it
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  Speaker 1: all addressed. So in regards to that, and I appreciate
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  Speaker 1: the position of the parties, it's important for me to
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  Speaker 1: hear all sides. Article 1, Section 28 of the Utah
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  Speaker 1: Constitution recognizes important rights afforded to victims and victims' representatives,
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  Speaker 1: including the right to be treated with fairness, respect, and dignity,
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  Speaker 1: and the right to be present and heard at critical
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  Speaker 1: stages of the proceedings. The court acknowledges the concerns raised
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  Speaker 1: in the motion regarding transparency and the ability to meaningfully
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  Speaker 1: observe the evidence presented during the hearing. At the same time,
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  Speaker 1: the court has an independent obligation to manage these proceedings
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  Speaker 1: in a manner that safeguards the rights of all parties.
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  Speaker 1: That includes honoring the rights of victims and victims' representatives
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  Speaker 1: while preserving the defendant's constitutional rights, including the right to
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  Speaker 1: a fair and impartial process. The court has considered the
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  Speaker 1: request that exhibits be displayed in real time to the courtroom.
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  Speaker 1: After careful consideration, the court determines that not all exhibits
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  Speaker 1: will be visually displayed to the gallery and notes that
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  Speaker 1: it will use a tiered method as described. First, whether
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  Speaker 1: it will be admitted to the court for consideration as
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  Speaker 1: it relates to probable cause. Second, whether it will be
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  Speaker 1: displayed only in the gallery. And third, if it will
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  Speaker 1: be published through the camera to the public at large.
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  Speaker 1: This ruling is not intended to diminish the significance of
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  Speaker 1: the victim's representative rights or concerns. Rather, it reflects the
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  Speaker 1: court's responsibility to regulate the presentation of evidence in a
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  Speaker 1: matter consistent with the integrity of the proceeding and the
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  Speaker 1: fair trial rights implicated in this manner. This manner in
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  Speaker 1: which evidence is displayed remains in the court's discretion. That
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  Speaker 1: discretion must be exercised in a manner that is appropriate
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  Speaker 1: and appropriately balances Mr. Robinson's constitutional rights. Ms. Kirk's rights
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  Speaker 1: as a victim, representative, and the court's obligation to conduct
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  Speaker 1: the proceedings that are fair, orderly, and appropriately transparent. Transparency
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  Speaker 1: is an important principle, but it must be maintained in
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  Speaker 1: a manner of consistent with the constitutional rights and protections
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  Speaker 1: afforded to all parties. The court does not make a
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  Speaker 1: blanket ruling as it relates to any exhibit, and as
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  Speaker 1: previously stated, each exhibit will be afforded its own due
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  Speaker 1: and weighing whether it shall be published to the courtroom
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  Speaker 1: or or beyond that. And that concludes the court's ruling
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  Speaker 1: on that motion. All right, counsel, the last matter as
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  Speaker 1: it relates to the briefing, I'll hear that, and then
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  Speaker 1: there's a slight edit to, and I'm not sure when
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  Speaker 1: the state wishes to publish, State Exhibit 16. So, turning
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  Speaker 1: to the state, do you wish to be heard about
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  Speaker 1: the motions filed last night prior to the publication of
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  Speaker 1: Exhibit 16? Again, it's your choice on how you move forward.
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  Speaker 1: I just want to see which order you want to go.
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  Speaker 1: The state, We do want to be heard on the
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  Speaker 1: briefing from last night, and specifically about Exhibit 16. I'm
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  Speaker 1: understanding Your Honor has additional edit to that, is that correct?
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  Speaker 1: Judge Graff, I do. And there might be a value
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  Speaker 1: in hearing that. So that may or may not change
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  Speaker 1: your position. So let me just put that on the record,
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  Speaker 1: and then I'll hear from you. I just want to
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  Speaker 1: make sure that you're able to be afforded everything. So
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  Speaker 1: as it relates to the edits last night, I believe
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  Speaker 1: it was between 6 minutes and 57 seconds... and 20
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  Speaker 1: minutes and 29 seconds, which is not to be played.
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  Speaker 1: And then 32 minutes and 55 seconds to 35 minutes
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  Speaker 1: and 47 seconds, which will not be played. And I
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  Speaker 1: believe that's what I received reflects that. And is that
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  Speaker 1: the understanding of the parties? Defense? Yes. Judge Graff? All right.
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  Speaker 1: The state has said yes. The defense? I'm not saying
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  Speaker 1: if you agree with it. I'm just saying, does the
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  Speaker 1: reflect the timestamps? Defense may have a moment. Judge Graff? Absolutely. Defense,
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  Speaker 1: go ahead, Your Honor, and then let's just see what
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  Speaker 1: the court is referring to. Judge Graff, while I'm asking,
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  Speaker 1: did you receive a copy of the edited video? Defense, okay,
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  Speaker 1: so I'll answer that question directly. The state sent us
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  Speaker 1: a copy of the edited video. The redactions of the
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  Speaker 1: audio were exactly as the court ordered. But we noticed
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  Speaker 1: that the video which followed ended up being inconsistent with
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  Speaker 1: the redactions of the audio. So I've that to the
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  Speaker 1: state's attention last night. I believe that they ultimately forwarded
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  Speaker 1: to the court what I'll call version 2 of the redactions,
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  Speaker 1: which redacts the video that would have made the audio
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  Speaker 1: redactions ineffective. So that's sort of where we are. But
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  Speaker 1: we may not be communicating with each other about the
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  Speaker 1: same issue, I'm not sure. Judge Graff, well, I just
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  Speaker 1: want to make sure in regards to what was to
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  Speaker 1: be cut out comports with the timestamps I just gave. Defense,
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  Speaker 1: it does. Plus, the parties believe that additional video needed
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  Speaker 1: to be cut to match the court's intentions with respect
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  Speaker 1: to the audio. Judge Graff, right, and that's where I'm
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  Speaker 1: going next. State? Response from the state, yes, Your Honor,
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  Speaker 1: I think we're on the same page. We did in
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  Speaker 1: conjunction with the discussion with the defense prepare. First of all,
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  Speaker 1: we prepared the redacted video as Your Honor ordered. Then
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  Speaker 1: after discussing with the defense, we prepared a second version
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  Speaker 1: that still maintained the audio redactions as the court ordered.
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  Speaker 1: But we took out the video portion that the defense
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: brought to our attention. Judge Graff, all right. And I
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  Speaker 1: didn't see that. And this is the court's own independent
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  Speaker 1: finding after spending significant time last night reviewing it. So
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  Speaker 1: I'm requesting video-only redaction between 20 minutes and 29 seconds,
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  Speaker 1: and 25 minutes, and 23 seconds. And so what I
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  Speaker 1: looked at was that what was on screen. So any
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  Speaker 1: video showing anything other than Mr. McBride and Lance Twiggs
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  Speaker 1: was to be redacted, with the exception of screenshots of
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  Speaker 1: the images pulled from the surveillance video and the FBI bulletin,
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  Speaker 1: which I believe was also briefly displayed. Defense, I think
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  Speaker 1: we're all on the same page on what the court
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  Speaker 1: just said. Prosecution, Your Honor, I think we have just
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  Speaker 1: a one second difference. Our timestamp is 2522 of the
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  Speaker 1: additional edited version, but I think it still omits the
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  Speaker 1: video portion that we're discussing. Judge Graff, all right, well,
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  Speaker 1: it's a good day when we are literally on the
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  Speaker 1: same page. I'm glad that within one second, we were
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  Speaker 1: all in agreement about this. And it sounds like you're
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  Speaker 1: one step ahead of the court. I was just going
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  Speaker 1: to say that if you had it, you simply turn
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  Speaker 1: off the monitor for that section. But if you have
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  Speaker 1: already made the change, then all the better. There are
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  Speaker 1: two additional changes as well. And this is very short,
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  Speaker 1: so I'll leave it to the state. If you wish
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  Speaker 1: to just in real time pause and fast forward or
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  Speaker 1: wish to redact it, I'll leave it to you. So
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  Speaker 1: the additional requested audio and visual redactions, so this is
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  Speaker 1: not to be played whatsoever, is 27 minutes, 18 seconds
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  Speaker 1: to 27 minutes, 25 seconds. And the second is 28
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  Speaker 1: minutes and 11 seconds to 28 minutes and 18 seconds. Prosecution,
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  Speaker 1: your honor, just to make sure that we've got that correct,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: the additional redaction would be 27 minutes and 18 seconds
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  Speaker 1: to 27 minutes and 25 seconds. Judge Graff, correct for
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: the first one. Prosecution, and then 28 minutes and 11
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  Speaker 1: seconds to 28 minutes and 18 seconds. Judge Graff, yes.
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  Speaker 1: Prosecution and Your Honor, while we're talking about additional redactions,
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  Speaker 1: let me approach. When Your Honor made his ruling yesterday afternoon,
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  Speaker 1: it wasn't entirely clear the basis for these redactions that
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: the court proposed. The state's understanding was that those additional
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  Speaker 1: redactions were based on the potential that the video 1102
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: would be showing duplicative evidence, would be displaying evidence that
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  Speaker 1: would be duplicative of future exhibits. And then also potentially
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  Speaker 1: a concern about admissions by the defendant. Portions that the
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: court has ordered to be redacted do not have any
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  Speaker 1: of those concerns as far as the state's view of
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  Speaker 1: the evidence. And I'd like to be able to point
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  Speaker 1: out to the court those. We've got two brief portions
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  Speaker 1: that we believe don't implicate those concerns and should not
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  Speaker 1: be redacted. Judge Graff, all right. Prosecution, does your honor
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  Speaker 1: have a transcript in front of you? Judge Graff, I do. Prosecution, okay, well,
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  Speaker 1: first of all, at the very bottom of the page 10,
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  Speaker 1: beginning with the words was he, and then over to
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  Speaker 1: page 11, down to timestamp 1646. That portion is not
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  Speaker 1: cumulative of additional exhibits. It contains nothing that could be
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  Speaker 1: classified as an admission by the defendant. That's the first portion.
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  Speaker 1: Judge Graff, so going back to page 10, I don't
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  Speaker 1: see was he at the bottom. Where are you? How
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: many lines from the bottom up are you referring to?
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  Speaker 1: Prosecution inaudible. Judge Graff, You may, oh, I see right there. Okay,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: now I see what you're saying. I missed that. I
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: was looking at the beginning of the line, but I
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: see your point. Okay, so from was he on page
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  Speaker 1: 10 until prosecution, the timestamp, 1646 on page 11. Judge Graff, okay. Prosecution,
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  Speaker 1: that's the first portion. And then the second portion that
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  Speaker 1: we would ask not to be redacted is a small
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  Speaker 1: portion of page 19. And it begins, let's see. It
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  Speaker 1: would be the fifth paragraph down. Mr. McBride stating, okay.
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  Speaker 1: And then ending at timestamp 3340. Again, that's not cumulative
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  Speaker 1: of any anticipated exhibit, nor does it refer to any
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  Speaker 1: admission by the defendant. Judge Graff, thank you. All right,
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  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here. And in the
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: next episode, we're going to pick up with a defense.
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  Speaker 1: All the information that goes with this episode can be
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: found in the description box.