Latest / Breaking Precedent / Breaking Orbit: Newly minted Astronaut, Dr. Eiman Jahangir, on the future of space travel [Replay]

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Breaking Orbit: Newly minted Astronaut, Dr. Eiman Jahangir, on the future of space travel [Replay] · Breaking Precedent

• BP_Eiman_Reboot_v1 === [00:00:00] This is my episode with Dr. Eiman Jahangir, gear cardiologist, Vanderbilt professor, my brother-in-law, and as of this conversation, the 705th [00:00:10] human in Earth's history to go to space. We recorded this episode in two parts. First, just a few days before he flew to West Texas for his blue origin launch, and [00:00:20] then again after he returns safely back to earth. And that before and after is what makes this conversation so special. You hear the dream, while it's still a dream, [00:00:30] the nerves, the preparation, the disbelief that this thing he imagined for decades was actually happening. And then you hear what change is after, what it feels like when the [00:00:40] capsule separates from the rocket, what zero gravity is actually like, what earth looks like from above, very timely right now. And how black space [00:00:50] really is not just dark, but void of color in a way most of us can't even imagine. But what I love about Iman's story is that he didn't just go to space through the [00:01:00] traditional path. He applied to NASA again and again. He came close every time. And then he found another door through Moon NFTs, a lottery blue origin, [00:01:10] and honestly, one of the wildest chains of events I've ever heard. It is such a perfect breaking precedent story because sometimes the dream doesn't change, but the path [00:01:20] does. And next week I'll be sharing a brand new season two conversation with Iman, where we go deeper into what happened after his flight, what he's [00:01:30] building now, and how this experience has continued to shape him. But first, let's go back to the launch. Here's my season one conversation with Dr. Iman Jung gear. [00:01:40] I hope you enjoy. So Iman, can you tell us what sparked the interest in space? Like gimme the history there. Yeah, so I mean, I [00:01:50] think it's a few things. If we go way back, I think when I was really little in Iran, I have distinct memories of the rockets coming and coming into Tehran. 'cause we were actually at [00:02:00] war with Iraq. Wow. Yeah. So I very well remember the sirens and having to run down into the basement with my family. And so [00:02:10] since then, you know, we moved to the United States when I was four and we were near the space in Rocket Center, which is in Huntsville, Alabama. So we would drive down a couple weekends a year, and I think.[00:02:20] Then, and I remember being too small to ride some of the rides, so I was maybe like six or seven that I was like, holy smokes. Like these rockets can do amazing things and [00:02:30] we send people to space. Like there are humans that like do this, they go off planet, and that was the spark. I think it was a combination of just like growing up in a place that was at war [00:02:40] and then having access to the space center and seeing what amazing things America was doing at that time. That's kind of crazy. I mean, the [00:02:50] contrast of a small child in the middle of war being brought to America where it was safe and then seeing the possibilities, [00:03:00] what was possible, that contrast is really kinda what sparked it for you. Yeah. And that you could use these like maybe it was like wanting to gain control of that.[00:03:10] Powerful weapon, right? These things that were causing destruction and all of a sudden, yeah, you could use it to improve life on Earth. Earth, hopefully. Yeah. It's [00:03:20] amazing. And so I know that you've applied to be an astronaut a few times, five times, three times. How many times? I'm in my fifth round right now. So the application's in, oh my gosh. [00:03:30] Oh, I love it. I love that you're going forward again. Okay. Walk us through the process. It is a process and you've gotten right to the end a couple of times. Walk us through the whole thing. Yeah, [00:03:40] so like many things applying you kind of do on a whim, not thinking they're ever gonna pick you because you look at these people who do this job and you say, wow, like these are amazing [00:03:50] human beings. And so it's like any other government job, whether you're gonna be like the chef at the veterans hospital, or you're gonna go work as a civilian in the military, you have to go on [00:04:00] usa.gov. They just put a job application out there. Oh my gosh, really? Yeah, and you start to astronaut. Oh my god. And that's amazing. Yeah. It doesn't pop up [00:04:10] all the time. It's about once every four years when they do this. And do you just, are you like hitting refresh or are you like, are you following? Like how do you know when the job is open? Yeah, so [00:04:20] when I first applied in 2000. Seven. As you can imagine, the internet was not, social media was not really a thing back then. It was a lot of just paying attention to the news. [00:04:30] But now, luckily, if you're in these like pools where people are into space, you know when it's gonna happen. So as soon as the job applications are there, you're in the know. You're in the know. And it's on social [00:04:40] media and it's national news normally. So you apply and. It's a standard application. Where'd you go to school? What work experience do you have? I mean, what work experience do you [00:04:50] have to be an astronaut? I don't. Well, now you're gonna be able to add something to your resume here. That's right. Yeah. It's pretty great. But before I had very little work experience and you have to meet [00:05:00] certain qualifications. And for me, being a physician met those qualifications. But you could be an engineer or a scientist or even a teacher, you know, they have a whole track for people who are teachers. Oh, wow. [00:05:10] And they can apply. Wow. And once you get through that first application, they review it and then they determine if you're highly qualified. That's what the next term is. They send you a secondary application. Then it [00:05:20] asks for things like references, background checks. Medical history, things like that. Then, so that goes from like maybe four to 6,000 people. I don't know how many that get that highly qualified, [00:05:30] but they typically bring about 120 people in for interviews, three day interviews, and you come in groups of 10. This is in Houston? This is in Houston, yeah. The Johnson Space Center where the [00:05:40] astronaut Human Space flight program is held. Okay. And you come down there and they run a bunch of other tests on you. Things like IQ tests, personality tests. You interview in front of [00:05:50] a panel of 20 plus people, which include astronauts that you probably admire, psychologists, psychiatrists, heads of different groups at nasa, whether it's. The head [00:06:00] of mission control or wow research or something else. And so that's pretty intimidating, right? Is that the most intimidating part of the experience there in [00:06:10] Houston? The panel interview? That's probably the most intimidating part. Yeah. Because you don't have a lot of control. That's kind of amazing. All the other stuff, right? So the medical stuff is what it is. You're not gonna fail that. Okay. [00:06:20] And then from that one 20, you're like, okay, well I made it this far, it's unlikely. One, I didn't think I'd ever make it that far, right? I just applied it on a whim being like, ah, I won't get picked and I can go on with my life.[00:06:30] But once you got close, then the bug. Really? Yeah. And it really gets you. And then I went home and I'm like, all right, well that was that. Not gonna go anywhere. And I got [00:06:40] called back for a finalist interview, which was about, I think for 2008, 2009 class. It was 47 people total. And then you go back for a week. Wow. Wow. And they do a lot more things. Intensive [00:06:50] medical stuff, colonoscopies even. 'cause they're looking to hire people for 20 years and they, I, you know, wanna make sure you're not gonna have cancer or something. Or an aneurysm, brain [00:07:00] aneurysm, things like that. They could do that pre Novo scan now. They could do a pre novo scan. Yeah. There's all kinds of new, as you know, medical [00:07:10] technology. Yeah. Maybe skip the colonoscopy this time and do something else. I think everyone would appreciate that. I, if you go back, I mean this was what, 2008? So 16, 17 years [00:07:20] ago. Definitely technology has improved in medicine over that time. Right. And that was cool. I mean, I think the best part of that application that week of interviewing was [00:07:30] that you were there with like seven or eight other people that also were finalists. Okay. Wow. And you were living with them for a week and. Hold on. Where do you live? Where are you, like in bunk [00:07:40] beds? Like in a dormitory or like set the scene for me? Yeah. Luckily not bunk beds. Honestly. The first time I did this in 2009, we were at the La Quinta Inn, but the second time I did it in [00:07:50] 2013. You stay on as they change it to where you actually stay where the astronauts stay pre and post flights. So it's a whole, oh that's super cool facility, you know, common space, like a big [00:08:00] kitchen living room and then each person has their separate bedroom with a shower, like private bathroom. Okay. But that was really cool. Nice. So in 2009, cyan Proctor and I were [00:08:10] finalists together. If you, you might know she flew on Inspiration four, which was the first all civilian mission and she was Wow. The first female black pilot of a spacecraft, which is pretty [00:08:20] cool. Incredible. Yeah, she'll be at my launch next week because Wow. Talk about breaking precedent there. That's amazing. Yeah, I mean she was incredible and she was really. The spark. [00:08:30] That mission was a spark that maybe I could fly outside of nasa. Interesting. You and I were there together. It was right before I went to inspiration. Four Virgin flew. It was like a week or [00:08:40] two. Yep. And I remember we were sitting there as a family watching me like, this is history with all the kids. With all the kids. Yes. And I, I said, okay, well there's a shot outside of nasa. And then they flew with [00:08:50] Inspiration four. And it's funny because I keep applying for nasa, but now I'm gonna fulfill my dream outside of nasa. Much like Cyan. Yeah. I mean, isn't that [00:09:00] interesting that for you, it wasn't necessarily about becoming the astronaut through the traditional way. You purely just wanted [00:09:10] to go to space. You wanna go to space? That's it. I wanna go to space. Yeah. Yeah, any way possible. It, it's not about, you know, I think sometimes people may like have the big [00:09:20] ego, like, I wanna be an astronaut. This is the job title I want. But for you, it really is this like, it's a dream. It's your dream come true. It's a dream and it's amazing that it's [00:09:30] gonna come true in what, four days, which is pretty wild in four days. T minus four days. Yeah. Wild. Wow. Okay. So you've been through the [00:09:40] process. You're on your fifth go around, you've made it as a finalist a few times. You're getting ready to take off on a private flight, the Blue Origin [00:09:50] flight. Tell me how this all came about and let's start with Web3 and NFTs. And you [00:10:00] and I like, oh yeah. Trading NFTs and buying crypto and like, that's where this all started to take us back there and then kind of build into [00:10:10] how you got this ticket. Yeah. So. I think you and I had both independently started doing crypto Yes. And Web3, but we hadn't really gotten into the NFT space. [00:10:20] And I remember being, I think I was visiting you in California 'cause we were already living here in Nashville and you were like, oh, check out these NFTs. And you had started looking [00:10:30] into it. There was a few that we both bought that I think kind of triggered it. And then you really noticed one Web3 organization, I'm still a member of called Space Plus [00:10:40] and Okay. Space Plus was making an NFT to send someone to space. You said, Iman, you gotta check this out. Was it a DAO or was it No, it Was it just the nft? No, it was just the nft. They're actually [00:10:50] like a, I think incorporated company, like in the United States based out U Utah. I don't know if that's where they're incorporated, but they made Okay. An NFT. And part of it was that they [00:11:00] were gonna select someone to go to space. So they did it. You know, I applied, you had to put together a video or an essay, but that really opened the door. Like it's really expensive to go to space. I was not gonna be [00:11:10] able to self-fund. Right. But maybe there's a way in one of these competitions, and I had already started looking at things online, but that weren't necessarily Web3. There's a group called Space for Humanity that have [00:11:20] sent the first Mexican mm-hmm. Woman to space that have sent the first amazing North African and Egyptian woman to space. And they've done great things. Mm-hmm. But there just were opportunities. So [00:11:30] I just started looking. There was a group called Crypto Space Agency that have now they're going by, sir, which is the Space Exploration Research. Arm or something like that. They [00:11:40] invited me to go to a launch. So I actually got to go to NS 21 and see a Blue Origin. Oh cool. To launch through them. Okay. And then there was Moon Dao, which has been around since 2021. They [00:11:50] are a dao. Okay. For those of you don't know. Mm-hmm. Which is like a decentralized, autonomous organization. So it's a bunch of people get together and they try to fulfill a mission through a [00:12:00] decentralized way, meaning everyone has voting power based on, you know, your contributions and things like that. There's not like one single body running it. There's another famous DAO around the constitution, [00:12:10] right? Yeah. People got together and bought the Constitution. Right. Okay. And one of the guys in this DAO who started this Dao, was part of that Dao. So he's a big proponent of like the idea of DAOs, [00:12:20] right? Like this is what he wants to do. Yeah. So yeah, so they crowdfunded money to send someone to space and in 30 days, I think they raised like 2200 Ethereum. And this was when Ethereum was [00:12:30] worth 4K. So they raised a lot of money and they bought the ticket. They bought two tickets. They bought two tickets to space. Okay. And the first one, they wanted to give to an influencer. [00:12:40] So I remember sitting there during my babymoon, my wife and I, before we had our second child, your niece, we were out there and she was about to go to bed at like 9:00 PM And I'm like, well, I'm gonna [00:12:50] stay up for this meeting. And I went down to the lobby and sat there and there was three people that we got to vote on and they took, decided to send dude perfect Kobe Cotton, which, [00:13:00] okay, I think if you're a younger generation, you really know they've done, they do trick shots, cool things. So he flew up in NS 22 in 2021, and then they, okay. They actually had another [00:13:10] seat for lottery then, and I put my name in. There was 10,000 tickets. I didn't get picked. I wasn't even the top 10. A Chinese national got picked. How did they pick? Was this [00:13:20] where you made the video and, and everything or? No, this one. This one was an NF T. So you've minted an NFT for free. Oh, okay. And it's 10,000 people. Random selection. Random selection, which to [00:13:30] me, wow. If your goal is to democratize space and get as many people to space as you can, I think, you know, there's lots of way people give tickets away. But really if your goal is [00:13:40] just to send people to space of all sorts, I think the lottery is the, it's the best way to do it because otherwise the way to go. Okay. Otherwise you're picking, right? Like, yeah. Someone down the street who [00:13:50] maybe let's say is a mechanic at the shop. Who doesn't have this great like influencer profile or backstory is never gonna have a chance 'cause they can't compete with a person with a million YouTube hits or [00:14:00] whatever. Right. So I really am a big fan of the, of the lottery model. And if I ever have enough money, okay. Where I'm funding these, it's gonna be a lottery model. I'll put that out there right now. Nice. All right. Mark your words right now. [00:14:10] So they tried to bring this Chinese national yawn over for a year. They worked with, okay, US Department of State. They worked with [00:14:20] the Chinese government. They talked to our embassy, they hired lawyers. And the US was like, no, you can't do it. It's not, they're not allowed to fly on our rocket. They put in their due diligence, but then they realized they had to go through this again. [00:14:30] So once again, they made a new NFT put out a new call saying we're gonna pay for, you know, we're gonna give, give someone another space flight. And even that, I was here, there was [00:14:40] 2200 people I was sitting with, my son and my wife, and we were watching and it was like the 10th person, ninth person. And I came up forth. Whoa. I didn't even [00:14:50] win and I was bummed. So close. Yeah. I was like, I didn't win. Yeah. And so then the drawing was over. And this again was a lottery. It was a lottery, yeah. You came up fourth In the lottery. In the lottery. And my wife was like, Iman, okay, don't discount [00:15:00] yourself like you're fourth. That's closer than you were yesterday. You just need three people to drop out. True. So the next morning on Dish's, so Wise, she Amber's. So wise she, she comes from a good place.[00:15:10] So the next day someone popped up on Discord. They're like, I'm so excited, I'll be the first person from China to fly on a US rocket. And I was like, well, they're probably not gonna be [00:15:20] allowed to do it if the other guy wasn't like, I don't know. But I was like, okay, he's out. And then I just waited. They never announced two, one, just waited months. Okay. That was in December. And then in, [00:15:30] okay, in March they were gonna announce who won, and then they scrubbed it and they're like, oh, last minute. And then in April I went to the Eclipse, [00:15:40] we went up to Indiana and on the drive back I got a text on Discord and they're like, Hey. We need to talk to you. The guys from Moon. I'm like, let's go. Let's talk. And they're like, no, no, tomorrow. So I [00:15:50] had to sleep on it. I was like, Amber, maybe. Nah, I probably didn't get it. This is as you are driving back from an eclipse from the total eclipse Yeah. That you and [00:16:00] Amber and the children drove to be in the total path of Yes. Hours. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So wow, that was an epic week. That was also, that's amazing. Also, the week on Friday where I met Arnold [00:16:10] Schwarzenegger, that was another lifelong dream was to meet Arnold. Aw. So it was like, uh, wow. It's a big week. Fulfilling a lot of stuff. Yeah. So, but hold on. So what do you think happened in number [00:16:20] three? Do you think they got scared and dropped out? What do you think happened? Yeah, I think they were gifted a ticket. Like it'd be like, Leah, I'm buying you a ticket for a lottery and you don't know it. Okay. And then you win. Oh, [00:16:30] and you find out you're going to space and you're like, I think if you ask a hundred people, maybe one wants to go to space. Most people are like, right, right. It's not worth it. Yeah. So I think that's what happened. I don't know what happened to number [00:16:40] two. I think maybe they were a national also of, of China, but I don't, I don't actually know, you know the ow guys have never told me. This is just me inferring. So you get the text, you [00:16:50] do the call the next morning, and what do they say? They say it was actually when I was in clinic. They're like, can you talk? So I run to my office and be like, you got the ticket, you're going to space. And I have an audio [00:17:00] recording of that somewhere. 'cause they were kind enough to save it on Discord. One of the guys dropped out, so it's a weird audio recording with like one person speaking dead space for the other guy and then me. But [00:17:10] yeah, I was ecstatic. I jumping up and down, you know, got off the phone, called Amber on FaceTime. Wow. Oh my gosh. Ugly face of excitement, you know? [00:17:20] And so this, this actually, it had nothing to do with that incredible video and application you put together, which we will link to in the show notes. I [00:17:30] mean, this video you made, did you make it for this particular contest or was that a totally different contest? That was a totally different contest and oh my God, I didn't get that one so I repurposed [00:17:40] it for this one. But the cinnamon, I love it. And Theo guy says it's so good. They have said, and they're very well aware that like it is fortunate that I got this because in a [00:17:50] lot of ways, for them it's a good story of like. Because this is a passion, right? This I'm not just like someone going to space and gonna forget about it. This will, but it was the lottery. Lottery. They had no idea who you were. They had no [00:18:00] idea. Yeah. But at the end of the day, I'm gonna be able to share their message for longer and longer because space is part of who I am. And it will still be right. Probably even more so after Thursday when I fly, [00:18:10] they may rethink their lottery model after this Iman, they may rethink their lottery. I'll tell them, no, don't do it. I mean, lottery model may not be the best business model. [00:18:20] Let's just put that out there. I know, but so. Are you scared? Not at all. How are you feeling? Not at all. The only time my nerves came up [00:18:30] is I'm actually working. It hasn't been announced yet, but it will be announced probably by the time this goes out. But I'm gonna work for Space for Humanity as an overview ambassador. Amazing. It's for people who are going to [00:18:40] space, so space for humanity is not funding my fight. Ow is, but who believe in their mission of democratizing space, trying to bring the overview effect to people and kind of having a mission after [00:18:50] your flight and they make you write or make videos in case you don't come back. Okay. Oh my God. So is that what you're working on right now? I worked on it two nights [00:19:00] ago. I can't work on it now. I gotta get packed to go on my flight tomorrow. And it was rough. I would say I had not been nervous. I had not been worried. Wow. I'm not nervous or worried now, but that like hour [00:19:10] and a half or two hours of trying to make like a video for my wife and my son and my, oh my gosh. My mom and my brother. Did I get a video? I'm gonna make one right now. Is there a personal [00:19:20] video to me? I think your video's gonna be get over here and take care of my family. Now. You take care of, yeah. No, no, you're gonna be fine. Get over here. You're fine. Just give her a hug [00:19:30] because you will have to be taking care of your family. Even more so here pretty soon. So. Well, it's interesting 'cause as part of YPO Young President's organization, we do these. [00:19:40] Form retreats that are very intense. We do, you know them annually. And at one of these retreats we always bring in a facilitator. And literally the hardest [00:19:50] exercise I've ever had to do was this facilitator had us write a letter to one person in our family knowing that we had seven days left to live.[00:20:00] So you're like, okay, I have a week left to live. I'm gonna write the letter. So then she says, okay, now write the letter that you have seven hours to live. [00:20:10] And you're like, whoa. Everything sort of changes. And then there was this iteration, we had to do it like, I don't know, three or four times at the end, everyone's sharing their letters, [00:20:20] just sobbing, rough sobbing. And it's still like, I still have PTSD thinking about doing that exercise. I never wanna have to do it again. Yeah. But you know what? I think it [00:20:30] does, it forces a reflection. It forces clarity on what's important. I mean, was there anything after going through that experience and doing this yourself, [00:20:40] like what is the takeaway? I mean, one that it's really hard to do and I, I, I don't think terrible, you need to do it. I mean, I think you need to do it if you're gonna go on a space flight, but you [00:20:50] know, some things are best slept, you know, pushed under the cover. It's from a doctor's orders. Yeah. I don't know. I think. Just providing reassurance that this [00:21:00] was my choice and no one should doubt or say, oh, I should have convinced him not to go. I think that that's probably the biggest reflection because you know, I think my parents would feel that [00:21:10] way. Maybe my brother would, okay. My wife maybe would like, oh, we knew it was inherently dangerous, but at the end of the day, this is, I was gonna do it right. This is, this is a dream. This is a choice. [00:21:20] This fulfills something I think in me that I need, we'll find out. So no one should have any regrets that I was gonna do this anyway. It was gonna happen. [00:21:30] That's powerful. And I, I actually think that says a lot about you as a husband and a son and a father. You are just always [00:21:40] thinking about others. I think that's really special. Illustrates that. Thank you. I receive. Thank you. Okay, so last question for now, because we are gonna do [00:21:50] a post flight recording interview as well. But as you think about. Breaking precedence as you think [00:22:00] about being a precedent breaker, someone who's charting their own path, who's a first and only, who's doing something different, and you think about being someone who [00:22:10] maintains precedent, maintains stability, maintains, you know, the rule of law as my father-in-law would say, or being someone who sets [00:22:20] precedent, makes precedent, you know, is looking towards the future and, and setting new rules and guidelines and innovations. Which one of those buckets do you resonate with [00:22:30] the most? You know, traditionally I would say I probably resonate in the bucket of rule of law, but emotionally, I always wanna resonate in the other bucket, [00:22:40] and I'm always looking for ways to jump. But as you know, the set precedent, you have to be willing to take a little more instability, a little [00:22:50] bit more risk, and. The way my path has been traditionally as an immigrant is that I was taught you work hard, you get educated, you get the [00:23:00] stable job, you do the things to provide a better life for yourself and your children than your parents may have been able to provide for you. And so I think it's deeply ingrained in [00:23:10] me to not be a risk taker, but as Amber knows, every day I'm like, oh, I should go do this or I should do that. And even the other day I was thinking of something, you know? [00:23:20] And so I am hopeful that this action and this. Time in life and this thing I'm about to do with going to space will give me the [00:23:30] push to, to be on the other edge and be more precedent setting. That's awesome. I mean, it is sort of aspirational and I think you are on the brink of something that you've [00:23:40] waited your whole life for. So we're all so excited for your, we're all so proud of you, Iman, and I know everything's gonna go really well and we can't wait to talk when you [00:23:50] come back. I am looking forward to it. I wish you could be there. I am unfortunate that you can't, but when we have an orbital flight, then everyone will be there. An orbital [00:24:00] flight. All right. Yeah, no, I'll be watching the livestream. Awesome. So it'll be, you know, and we, we have the baby coming. I like a week, so know. Yeah, wouldn't have been good timing. I'm good with the live stream. [00:24:10] Alright. All right. Thank you Iam. Thank you. Enjoy the flight astronauts. See you when you get home.[00:24:20] 4, 5, 4. Just start two, one[00:24:30] and crew capsule touchdown. [00:24:40] Welcome home to the newest six astronauts, the Blue Steel team. Once more, what appears to be a completely smooth flight for New Shepherd. [00:24:50] Uh, our booster touching down at the at the landing pad in a soft landing for our latest crew. Just a beautiful flight [00:25:00] up and back. I mean, that is just one of the, the, the cleanest flights I've seen from this rocket. But [00:25:10] behind every rocket is an extraordinary team. So a big shout out to the entire New Shepherd program. What a beautiful flight today. [00:25:20] And another, congratulations to the six newest astronaut. Oh my God. Iman, you are back from space. From space. It's [00:25:30] crazy. I mean, wow. Okay, so a week ago we talked pre-trip and then we had a baby. And then did you have a baby launched into [00:25:40] space? It's been a big week for our family. Our family has had a huge week, huge week. The morning we got home with the [00:25:50] baby was the morning of your launch. I watched it livestream. It was wild. I wanna go through every [00:26:00] single little detail because my mind was completely blown watching it, and I have so many questions, but why don't we start with, I know you went [00:26:10] a couple days early. Correct. Was that for training or what did you do when you first got there? Yeah, so we show up three days before launch, and the first night is really just a meet and greet, safety briefing, [00:26:20] get to know your crew a little bit better. And go over some of the logistics of the week. Then you have two full days of training. I'm talking like 8:00 AM to five [00:26:30] 30, 6:00 PM The first day is really covering a lot of the stuff of like, okay, here's the capsule. Let's go through some simulations. Like everything is working normally, right? So you go through [00:26:40] it a few times. Okay. Because you wanna make sure you understand all the procedures and what to expect. And the simulator is really cool. It's a full mockup of the capsule. It's [00:26:50] got full like regular sound, like you'll expect to hear because there are a few loud sounds that occur during the mission. And then you do things like. You take some group pictures, you know, [00:27:00] kind of that stuff on Wednesday, okay, the day before the launch, all the off nominal stuff. So what if there's a fire? What if there is something wrong with the CO2 in the capsule because you [00:27:10] know it's an enclosed spacecraft. What if you need to exit the wow spacecraft? Suddenly what do you do? And then also, very much so they work hard on how do you get back in your seat, because that's [00:27:20] probably the most important thing you're floating in space. I had so many questions specifically about that part of the mission. It's very important. But let's pause for a second. So [00:27:30] there's a lot of things that can go wrong. Had you thought about all these things before they put you in the simulator or were you like, oh my God, I hadn't thought about that. So [00:27:40] as you are aware, I have been thinking about this for 20 years. That includes seeing some of the accents with NASA that they've had. So I know space [00:27:50] flight's not. A zero risk game. Right. There's always some risk, but Right. The beauty of Blue Origin and the New Shepherd program, which is what they've been flying humans on, is that. [00:28:00] Their track record to date is flawless. And so I know that the team is one, the capsule's fully automated, so hard to mess up as a crew member. Okay. And [00:28:10] then two, that the people building this, the whole team, that thousands of people are really focused on safety. That's probably the most important thing that they're focused on. So it's, yeah, [00:28:20] there's risk, but I mean, I am all for it. We were doing like the fire drill, right? Like what happens when there's a fire and there's two seats that have a button you push. I was one of the seats, if [00:28:30] there's a fire, so fire light goes on, you gotta push the button and then when you land, you and the other person can open the door 'cause you wear masks will reach Wow. [00:28:40] And they're tethered, you know, long enough. Okay. Well when we did it, someone jumped up, you know, we landed and it's like, you gotta get outta the capsule. Someone whose seat did not reach mask now reached, jumped up, took their [00:28:50] mask off, went to the door, they went to open it and I'm like, stop. We're supposed to open it. And then the other guy who's mask reached jumped up and he took off his mask and then opened the door. And so we all got out and [00:29:00] I'm like, you know, I'm used to training people in high risk situations. We do procedures, we shock people, you know, back to normal rhythms and I have trainees. I went into full like [00:29:10] trainee mode. I'm like, you did that wrong. You were supposed to do this. What were you doing? I was like, I'm not walking out this capsule carrying your passed out bodies. And the trainer just like [00:29:20] looked at me like, all right, yes. I feel you. You know what's happening. You got this crew. That's so interesting. Something I noticed, and we can get into this later too, [00:29:30] just seeing the very brief footage I saw of you all at zero G. You were definitely, I thought, knowing you. In [00:29:40] sort of that protector caregiver mode that is just your nature, right? A decision. I mean, it wasn't my intent, but there's one of my friends say that who you are in space [00:29:50] is who you're on earth. And I think it's very true. You get everything that you are on earth, whatever that core is, is amplified when you're in space, because especially that briefly. But in general, it is such [00:30:00] a surreal experience, which we can talk about, but you're on full sensory overload, visually, body positioning. Mm-hmm. Like you're floating. You don't know what's up and what's down, and [00:30:10] so everything is just overwhelming. Mm-hmm. So I think whatever your core is here on earth probably gets amplified. Up there and yeah, we can talk about that situation, but that was part of a [00:30:20] longer situation. 'cause my goal was never to be worried about a crew member because that's not everyone's doing their own thing. But in that case, you know, I ended up being the first person outta my seat, [00:30:30] which was unusual 'cause Carson. Super quick. Okay. She's very fast every time and I hear all of a sudden her saying, I can't get outta my seat. And [00:30:40] Carson is the, the 21-year-old woman. Okay. And she is the youngest female. The youngest woman across the Carmen line. Yep. And she is at college u unc. Yeah, unc. So she's a senior over [00:30:50] there. Yeah. Amazing. So she's like, I can't get outta my seat. Yep. And so I turned back, I'm like, what's going on? She's like, the straps won't come. Unstrapped. Okay. So I'm like, let me see if I can help. So I get down there and I [00:31:00] try un undo the straps and they're just really tight, you know, just imagine like you have a harness and you're trying to loosen it up. And so I was like, I can't get 'em open. She's like, I'm [00:31:10] fine staying in my seat. She was completely cool as a cucumber. She's like, I'm good. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. Let me try. Okay. So then I tried the other straps, was able to get those up and harness the thing [00:31:20] and pull her out. Okay. So she was able to be out. So I think that video is probably. Wow. Like right after we got, I got her out and I'm like, just look out the window because yeah, one, it's such a [00:31:30] short period of time. Two, there's so much going on. And I was like, the most important thing is not the floating, it's that visual of like the earth and space and the view, the sun, [00:31:40] all of it. So I think what you're catching there is me redirecting her, but she did great and she was cool as a cucumber. Yeah. Yeah. I do joke that I am. The first doctor [00:31:50] on a civilian flight. Right. That's in Incredible. So there've been doctors with NASA and Soyuz, but as a civilian, I'm the first physician, and I think this might have been the first time they were like, is there a doctor in the house [00:32:00] response though it wasn't a medical emergency. And she was. She was. Oh my gosh. Probably very cool. Yeah. So then. We helped. And you know, you've definitely gotten [00:32:10] that call on an airplane before. I've heard those stories. Is there a doctor on the plane? On plane? I was looking for a nurse on the, but there none showed up the other day, so I had to raise my hand in your [00:32:20] crew. So let's talk. Uh, so I did not have that context in the video that I was watching that now tracks. That makes a lot of sense. So it's super interesting to have that [00:32:30] context. When you helped her out, were you worried that something was wrong with the straps? Was she gonna be able to get back in? Okay. Yeah. So as soon as I got her out, I said, listen, you have to go back in at a minute. [00:32:40] Normally you can get back in your seat at 30 seconds. You know, the, the yellow light goes off at a minute, at 30 seconds of sound, there's an auditory sound. Beep, beep, beep. I was like, look, we don't know what's gonna [00:32:50] happen with your seat and with the harness, so you have to make sure you get in it in a minute. Yeah. And so at a minute I'm like, Carson, it's a minute. You should probably get in your seat. She got in her seat, no [00:33:00] problem. And then I got in my seat at 30 seconds. Okay. And I'm waiting for the video. 'cause there was a time where I was the only one floating both at the beginning, at the end. And at the end I did a floating, I [00:33:10] did a plank across the capsule, which I wouldn't have done if there were other people. So I hope that that footage comes out. Oh, I have a picture of you doing a plank. Yeah, we need a side by side. Yeah. [00:33:20] I have an epic picture of you doing a plank. We do. We'll add that to the show notes. Oh my God. So you did a plank, you were the last one back in your seat. And then I got seat, my seat and I said, Carson, are you [00:33:30] okay? She looked okay. But just check in like, are you in your seat? Are you strapped in? Is everything okay? Yeah. She's like, yeah, I'm fine. But what Capcom heard is, yeah, Carson, are you okay? And then nothing. [00:33:40] So, because we're entering back into the atmosphere. Oh God. So they were just waiting patiently and they're like, I'm sure everything's okay. No one's contacting us. No one seems panicked or concerned. [00:33:50] So then when comms, you know, opened up again, okay, they, they double check. They're like, is everyone in their seats? 'cause part of it is the third seat confirms visually that the first and second they say, you know, [00:34:00] seats one, two, and three are strapped in. And then the sixth seat, which is what I says, you know, the fourth, fifth, and sixth people are in their seat. So a lot of stuff happening in a very short time. Wow. [00:34:10] Yeah. And so just even the logistics around getting into your seat, did you need help? Did you need another person to help strap you in? Or how did that work? Yeah, no, that is what we [00:34:20] practiced the most, probably 40 times. Right. So there's a very specific order. One, you confirm it's your seat. Wow. Because the seats are made specific to you. Like Rob, who is the [00:34:30] scientist, is six four, could not fit in Carson's seat. Right. Carson could fit in Rob's seat. So you visually confirm it's your seat. There's names, multiple places, and then you grab. [00:34:40] Two parts of it. 'cause you always want two points of contact. You kind of scoop your arm into the the strap because it's floating right. In space. So it's kind of just up. And then [00:34:50] you reach back and grab the handle on the other side and then get your feet in. And then there's a certain order of like how you strap in your harness. So probably the most worked upon thing is how do you [00:35:00] get back in your seat? That is, they're very focused on that. Yeah. But there is contingencies if you can't get in your seat. Yeah. What do you do? And you definitely have to be in your seat once the parachutes [00:35:10] deploy, before you hit the earth because the seat is created to take a lot of the impact. You know, like you barely even fill it. It was just like a thud, like if you had gotten into a car [00:35:20] accident. Oh how really? But like a minor car accident. And so the seat has a lot of thick foam and it's got scissoring that takes some of the impact. Yeah, it was awesome. All [00:35:30] of it. Amazing. Amazing. Well, we got way ahead of ourselves. I'm sorry. Yeah. I was just sort of obsessed with this seed thing. Okay. No, no, no. But let, let's go back this like let's, let's talk to each other. [00:35:40] I feel like this is the way it goes. I know. I know. It's like we're at home or around the dinner table. It's the way it goes. Okay. So you are there for the training. You meet the crew. What's your first impressions [00:35:50] of the rest of the crew? I mean, you talked a little bit about each of them in the seat Yeah. Story. But what were they all like? I mean, I think that it's a very unique kind of [00:36:00] one, it's a unique group of humans, right? That kind of decide to do this and are able to do it through whatever means either their own financial means or through science or me through Mundo. Also, you're gonna [00:36:10] share this experience. So I think everyone very quickly meshes. The group is probably the loudest group of trainees that Blue Origins ever had we're their eighth human flight. And they said we were the [00:36:20] most rambunctious group that they had had to date. You know, it was a lot of, I think, alpha personalities, the most rambunctious, and we were always talking over each other, really questioning. [00:36:30] Oh yeah. And we couldn't come up with a, a group name. We went through like a thousand different iterations and someone would always be like, no, or this or that. And finally our group name, our [00:36:40] crew name was Blue Steel, which is kind of perfect 'cause Blue Origin. Okay. Still, you're kind of forged in still. But what it came as is we were okay doing our photo shoot the [00:36:50] day before launch. So we'd been together 48 hours and, you know, we were taking pictures, the, you see that profile picture of everyone in their suits as a group. [00:37:00] And the photographer was amazing. Yes. She's done this, you know, eight times now. One of us was like Blue Steel, you know, like from Zoolander. Which [00:37:10] is the pose. Yeah. Right. And then we looked at each other, we're like, that's the perfect name for a crew on Blue Origin. That is perfect. Perfect. And we all were like, that's the name. It was very organic that it [00:37:20] kind of came together. Oh, that's really special. Yeah. That's really special. And so, okay, so you do the training, you meet with a crew, you're feeling ready. I know you did not sleep the night [00:37:30] before because I saw you tweeting and posting. What are you feeling the night before? You climb into this rocket to go to space. I mean, I was [00:37:40] happy that my wife was there. Your sister came, so we had, you know, a nice dinner. Yes. And then we went to bed at like nine. I was up at 1:00 AM she was still asleep. So I went out in the living room of the RV and [00:37:50] all this media like request, including from like Voice of America, which is a pretty big one. So I was like, oh, I really need to respond to these people now if I'm gonna talk to them [00:38:00] after the flight. Because these were all done right after the fight. Okay. Yeah. So my brain was on like, okay, activity, go, go, go. Which is always your brain too. You're always on it. That's [00:38:10] probably very true. This is not abnormal. No. Alpha types, right? This is all my whole crew. You wanna be very focused. Yeah. During the mission. So. I think the night [00:38:20] before I just, a lot of that stuff just came out. There was no nervousness, there was excitement, you know, I was worried about my kids, right? Like my brother was also up at 3:00 AM We were texting and it's like, [00:38:30] okay. And then my son was up. And so just talking and making sure they weren't gonna miss the transport. 'cause if you weren't there at four o'clock, then you are not gonna get on site. [00:38:40] Wow. Yeah. So a lot of that back and forth. Yeah. I think a lot of people didn't sleep well the night before. And so you get up the next morning, you go seven [00:38:50] stories up in an elevator. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. To climb into this capsule. Yeah. Okay. What is that moment like? Walk me through it. I mean, so you first walk up there and there's like a [00:39:00] locker room or a safe room in case you have to egress before launch, like if something's wrong with the rocket and that thing is built to withstand an explosion pretty much right. So we're all [00:39:10] in there. We're like, whoa, this thing is real. Like we are about to get on this thing. And then you go and you get in the capsule. Our trainer, who is Sarah Knight, she, you [00:39:20] know, is like, thumbs up, thumbs up, does the com check and closes the hatch. And then we're like T minus 30. Right. We're waiting. And this was a pretty smooth flight. 30 minutes. It really wasn't [00:39:30] 30 minutes. Yeah. There was not a delay. Not more than a few seconds. It was the first time they flew through clouds. They didn't know if they should do that because they, you know, they'd [00:39:40] never done that. And then they decided it was safe and it was fine. Like it was perfect. It was actually kind of cool 'cause you go through clouds and very quickly, very quickly. I remember I [00:39:50] talked to Amber very quickly afterwards and she was like, we saw the rocket go up, but then the clouds Yeah. Covered. So she was like, you know, from the ground tracking [00:40:00] you. It was hard to see though too. And I think that's part of their concern too, is they want people on the ground to see it. For us, it didn't matter better to take off than to wait or delay or, okay. [00:40:10] I mean, I, my heart was racing. I was wearing a bio button, which is like a device for. Monitoring heart rate, temperature, things like that. And it showed, you know, my average heart [00:40:20] rate's probably in the eighties and I was up to about a hundred consistently. My breath, respiratory rate was down 'cause I was doing deep breathing. Wow. But I was definitely like, felt, my heart racing felt shaky, [00:40:30] probably from excitement. Now was everybody wearing the bio button or was this just a cardiologist, your own little thing that you were wearing Nerd. It was offered to everyone for kind of, [00:40:40] yeah, I definitely nerded out. It was offered to everyone as kind of proof of concept to see how it would work on the mission. Mm-hmm. But not everyone chose to wear it. It was not a requirement by any means. [00:40:50] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And you watching, you're, you're sitting there, it's 30 minutes and you're just waiting, you're watching, you watch the countdown and I'm watching [00:41:00] the live stream and then, oh my God, it counts down and. The rockets go off. Yeah, it's amazing [00:41:10] At that moment, whoa, what are you feeling? First when it goes off, they warn you, but you see this orange glow in the capsule because the flames reflect off the white in the capsule. [00:41:20] So it's just beautiful glow. But I could imagine if they didn't warn you, it'd be a little concerning. But it's this beautiful, then you wait seven seconds till that. Mm-hmm. Actually lifts off. [00:41:30] 'cause it's gotta build the force. Right. And it goes and it's smooth. It's like an elevator. You're just going up, but you're going quick and you're watching, it's like 30,000 feet. You're like, oh, this is like a domestic airline, you know? Then it's [00:41:40] like 50,000 feet, a hundred thousand feet, 200,000 feet, and you're like, holy smoke. And honestly, I teared up because this has been a life dream, you know, 20 years I've been [00:41:50] working towards this. I felt like, I don't know if you ever remember the movie Gatica, where there's like. They genetically screen people and decide what jobs they can get. So you [00:42:00] have to have the, the right makeup. And the guy, the whole premise of the film is the guy's trying to become an astronaut, but he doesn't have the right genetic makeup. Okay. And at the end he gets on the rocket and he's launching to Mars, I [00:42:10] think. And the doctor who's been following him kind of nods to him that like he knew the whole time that he didn't have the genetic makeup but was kind of pushing him through. So once I was on there, I'm [00:42:20] like, I'm on it. It's real here it is. Yeah. It's, no one can take this away now. It's happening. It's happening. So I teared up. Wow. Because, you know, it's a lot of like, I was very cognizant that that was like [00:42:30] a goal that I had. One of my friends the other day I was talking to you said, you have become the actualized version of the person you dreamt of 20 years ago. 'cause it's been a big part of [00:42:40] what I've been trying to do and now I've achieved it. So whatever there was getting to this point, right. That is done. And however you imagined yourself, that's where you are now. So it was a big deal. I mean, I [00:42:50] was very incredible emotional. You can see me cry on one of the cameras, so you teared up. We could see you cry on one of the [00:43:00] cameras. I'm gonna definitely look for that footage and probably create a meme of you. The trainer was like, were you crying? I was like, hell yeah, I was crying. Of course I was crying. But you're going, you [00:43:10] know, as you, as you described, you're going through 30,000 feet commercial flight. You hit a hundred thousand feet, 200,000 feet. I am watching the live stream and [00:43:20] watching the miles per hour at which you are traveling, and I am freaking out because it's hitting like [00:43:30] 2,500 miles per hour. It didn't feel that way to you. Smooth elevator. It felt like a smooth elevator. I don't understand elevator. I think the way that they've built it, the like increase in forcer thrust is so [00:43:40] smooth. You know, like if you're in a car, you could be going 90 miles per hour. If it's a good car, you feel like you're going 40 miles per hour. So this is like a really good car. Okay. [00:43:50] Yeah, it's wild coming back. You feel it more 'cause insane. In insane. The Gs are higher coming back. So it's, you know, there's a brief moment where you have over five, I think we were like 5.9 Gs. It [00:44:00] feels like someone's sitting on your chest. Whew. Okay, so you're going up, up, up, up, up, and then the capsule breaks away. Yeah. You hear Boom, boom. Is that right? From, [00:44:10] yeah, from the rocket. Okay. And what does that feel like? Amazing. 'cause then you're free floating. It's like boom, boom, that starts the zero G. That starts the zero G. 'cause now you don't [00:44:20] have something pushing you. Right? So now all of a sudden you're just, you're still going up on top, you know of that kind of parabola where you hit apogee and it gets [00:44:30] quiet and you're floating and you're looking at the earth. I mean, it's all very incredible. I would say the things that are shocking. Oh gosh. I mean, it's kind of three things, [00:44:40] right? The first thing I noticed was just how. Black spaces and it's like a black that none of us here on earth can appreciate because it is literally a vacuum. There's nothing for [00:44:50] light to reflect off. So it is void of light. But do you see other stars or no, during the, do you see just black? I think if we were on the night side of the earth, we'd probably see [00:45:00] stars. But I think the earth light is so bright that you don't see stars. So I didn't see any stars. I just saw like interesting, okay, like this deep well of [00:45:10] blackness that didn't end. And then I saw like the earth and the beauty of the earth and the, the colors and the blueness and you know, kind of the curvature of the earth and that that like [00:45:20] sheen or reflection at the curvature and it was amazing. I am introspective, I've meditated before on breath and other things. I don't think I have to do it anymore. I can just close my eyes and [00:45:30] see this like very still image. Think about that moment. Yeah. 'cause it's so far beyond anything that we experience on earth. So let's [00:45:40] talk about that moment where you've hit zero G. We've already heard sort of the dramatic story about helping Carson get out of her seat. I saw the video where [00:45:50] you're kind of like, okay, okay, everyone's okay. But you're taking in this view, you're seeing the blackness. Does it immediately have this [00:46:00] profound impact perspective? Like, yeah, what is that? I mean, Frank White called it the overview effect, I think in the eighties or nineties, and it's something that's been described by [00:46:10] astronauts many a time, but it is, it's immediate, but it's also something I think you process over days to weeks, to months, to even maybe years. It is so [00:46:20] strikingly beautiful. I mean, William Shatner said he found it very terrifying, like the blackness. I didn't find it terrifying, but I did find it humbling that [00:46:30] really we do exist on this planet that's not that big, and it's quite lovely. That beyond that planet is just this, right? It's like there's nothing, [00:46:40] there's no life that we know of around us. And yeah, so it's very humbling and it's just so beautiful. Someone else described it as, you know, you could go to the Grand Canyon and you could like [00:46:50] look at it and it's pretty, but you're part of the art piece. You're part of the like majesty of that when you're there. But when you go to space, all of a sudden you're, you're removed from the earth and you're viewing it as like someone [00:47:00] removed from that piece of art. So it's hard to describe just how amazing it is. I mean it's just awe inspiring 'cause you are looking at where [00:47:10] we all live and it doesn't seem all that big. Yeah, and it does turn black. I mean, you're going, I don't even remember when it turned black, but all of a sudden. You are in space and there's [00:47:20] no doubt you're in space and you are surrounded by this blackness and down below you is this beautiful planet and you're all floating around up there where someone was conducting [00:47:30] experiments. What were the other crew members doing? So Rob was the first NASA funded scientist to be able to science on a commercial flight. So he basically had to freeze plant life forms [00:47:40] at four different times in space and someone on earth was doing it at the same time. So they're gonna compare the two to see if there's any difference in genetic expression. So neat. One other person [00:47:50] really wanted to do flips, so you can see in the video from is doing some Somers salts fun. And he did a plank and I kind of helped rotate him around. And then I think Nicolina and [00:48:00] Eugene were really just looking out the window. I mean, they were upside down. They were like enjoying, but their focus was the window in getting that view. And Nicolina, actually, she also has been wanting to go to [00:48:10] space for a long time. This has been a 10 plus year. Process of getting there for her. So incredible. Yeah, it was cool. And so were you looking out the window? You did [00:48:20] the plank at the end while looking out the window. I saw you with a little red ball. It was all heart. And there is one video 'cause I lost the heart. Oh, it was so heart. As soon as the stuff happened with Carson, I didn't even remember [00:48:30] letting go of the heart, but I definitely didn't have it in my pockets when I landed and they found it. I mean, it's in the capsule, but there's one video where there's no one else and you see the heart just [00:48:40] like going by the camera twirling. So I'm like, you got to get this. Oh, that's kind of amazing. You have to get me this footage. Yeah, it's incredible. That is amazing. That's amazing. And you were [00:48:50] saying that the sun then hit the capsule. Yeah. What happened there? What was that like? So I was sitting in my seat and the capsule turns, it turns two degrees per second. So [00:49:00] every seat gets like an amazing view. Right? You don't have to move across the capsule to get everything. And I didn't expect it. I mean all of a sudden I was just boom hit by this like a mince ray. [00:49:10] That was super bright. I had to close my eyes. There's absolutely no way I could have opened my eyes and it was just felt so powerful. You know, this is why we have life on this planet is [00:49:20] 'cause our, our sun and the distance from our sun. And I'd never experienced such a strong kind of just sunlight and the rate and the immense, like, it [00:49:30] just like engulfed me. It was like, you know, you feel like maybe this is when you see on a show or something and there's like a light from above that's like warm and engulfs someone while they're having some amazing [00:49:40] religious experience or something. That's what I felt like. Wow. I was like, holy smokes. And I just closed my eyes and. I think I was smiling Gary to ear and I was like, I am just gonna accept [00:49:50] whatever this moment is and be very present. It was cool. It was unlike anything else. That's amazing. And it felt different than it does on earth, of course. Right? Because you don't have all the [00:50:00] barriers. Yeah. And so it felt a lot stronger, a lot warmer. A lot brighter. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. All of that. Wow. All of that. And it was at the end of my fight. Right. 'cause I was back in my [00:50:10] seat. Okay. And I think that that was nice because I, there was nothing else. I mean, I could have looked out the window, but the sun was too bright to look, look out the window. So I could just enjoy that. Amazing. So how [00:50:20] long did you all spend zero G? How many minutes was that? It was about three minutes, I think. Three minutes. Three minutes, okay. Yeah. And you're back into your seat. And gosh, it would really give me a [00:50:30] lot of anxiety. Sort of like at 30 seconds you need to be back in your seat. It's like, ah. So you all get back in your seat safely, thank goodness. And you start the [00:50:40] descent Now. What is that like? What does that feel like? I mean, you're coming quick. You kinda hear like a whooshing, which is, I think that atmosphere, you know, gets thick and you're now [00:50:50] going through it. And then we hit almost six Gs and it really feels like someone sitting on your chest. Wow. So I was breathing slowly. And had you trained for that as [00:51:00] well? Were you all trained for that sort of force? I have personally before, but not for this mission. So yes, but not necessarily for this. And it doesn't last long, but you definitely [00:51:10] feel it. And then you get down and you're like, okay, you know, you're coming. Quick, quick, quick. Very quick. And I think at, I forget, at like 10,000 feet the drug parachutes deploy, [00:51:20] which are like the small white ones, I think it was at 7,500 feet, the parachutes to play. And so those are loud because you know there's a ballast and to shoot 'em off, but you are happy [00:51:30] to hear them. And when that Okay. Main parachutes go off, you're like, all right. Yeah, we're good. It's relief. And if you listen to the telecast, we were like cooping and hollering someone on main, you can hear it was like, they sound like a [00:51:40] bunch of monkeys. Yeah. In the background. You were, all of you were screaming. I mean it was intelligible, but it was, you know, you could tell you were Yeah. Really excited and relieved, right. [00:51:50] To be, yeah. Safely touching back down. Yeah. 'cause you know, once the parachutes are out, you're fine. So then I'm watching the live stream [00:52:00] and you know, you kind of all slowly emerge one by one. They have the family lined up, you know, there to greet you. I didn't know what number C you were, [00:52:10] but you ended up being the last. One out now. The first person out, he is just like huge release. You could tell he just like, yeah, screamed when he walked out [00:52:20] and everyone kind of had their own thing. And then you came out. Had you thought about what you were gonna do when you stepped through the door? Did you just let it come to you? We all thought about it, but [00:52:30] I never really knew what I wanted to do. On one of the pictures I have, you know, when we were practicing, I'm like doing a karate kick out of the door. So I didn't know what I was gonna do. I think I was just [00:52:40] overwhelmed by gratitude that I was given this opportunity. You know, this is not something I paid for. It's something I fortunately won, but through always applying for different [00:52:50] things and looking and yes, working, there's for gonna get this. Yes. Yeah. And so I think I was overcome by a sense of gratitude and gratefulness that I was able to do [00:53:00] it this amazing thing. Honestly, it, it pulled out because I think I put my hands to my heart, which you don't see because of the, the way the camera got. And then I just kind of did a kiss [00:53:10] and I was very grateful for that for the moment. And the opportunity, well, you could tell that you were grateful and it was a humbling moment. And you know, knowing [00:53:20] you, I could tell that there was this sense of overwhelm, but in such a positive way and it was such a beautiful moment to [00:53:30] witness, to see you come out that way and just kind of, you know. Lo a kiss. I'm back. And you clearly were taking it all in. It was just so special. [00:53:40] So special to see. Well, thank you. And having your sister there was obviously very special. Oh my gosh. She said she was giggling with Joy the entire flight. You know, kind of like perched [00:53:50] up. She's like, you see like people in pictures and she, because she's been there with me for 20 years for this moment and she knows how important it is for me and how it might have never happened. Yeah, that that [00:54:00] was great. And they caught it so perfectly on camera. Yeah. There's an epic picture of my sister Amber, jumping into your arms with a huge [00:54:10] smile, a huge laugh. Huge. So proud. So supportive. She's the best. It was such a special moment. It really was. Yeah. So I'm [00:54:20] sure I know the answer to this, but would you do it all over again? Absolutely. Before this I would've said I wouldn't do a suborbital again, because there is risk. [00:54:30] I've always wanted to do an orbital fight. So you know, if anyone wants a cardiologist or a doctor who's been to space on their flight, just, is there a doctor on board looking up happy to come? Yes, there is. [00:54:40] There will be a, a space trained doctor, but I would do a suborbital again if given the opportunity. If Blue Origin called me and said, Hey, come on board, I would go again. I don't know if I would apply [00:54:50] through organizations again, because I wouldn't want to take it away from someone else. Yeah. There is a group that's doing one right now and I'm part of that community. Mm-hmm. And my plan, you know, six months ago was to go full [00:55:00] fledged into that, but I'm not applying. But if someone came and said, Hey, we want you on board, or asks me to be on board, I would go in a heartbeat, but I wouldn't take it away from someone else. [00:55:10] Would you have wanted more time at zero G or were there special moments you wish could have lasted longer? Oh, absolutely. I mean, I would love to be. [00:55:20] Able to take in that view for as long as they'd let me. Eight months may be a little too long, but you know, a couple weeks. Well, well, let's talk about that. There [00:55:30] are two astronauts right now that are stuck at the International Space Station. Yeah. I feel like you might have an interesting perspective on [00:55:40] this. Having gone suborbital, can you give the audience sort of the background on what happened there? Yes. And what they're doing. So first off, Butch is a local Tennessean. He's not [00:55:50] from Nashville or Davidson County, but he is from Mount Juliet. So it's about 30, 40 minutes away in Wilson County. But these are both very seasoned astronauts. They've been on the Space Station, they've flown a long [00:56:00] time. I imagine they're both close to retirement and so they were picked to develop and fly on Star. Liner, which is Boeing ship, which was supposed to be one of the [00:56:10] ships that ferries humans to the Space Station. So, you know, 10, 15 years ago, SpaceX and Boeing were competing for this. Some people at NASA didn't wanna give SpaceX any [00:56:20] funding and just wanted to focus on Boeing, which is like the old guard. And luckily, thank goodness they did give SpaceX funding. 'cause as we know, SpaceX has been doing this since [00:56:30] 2021 successfully. Mm-hmm. So they flew up and you know, there had been some delays to the launch delays. But finally they went and on their way up there, they had some issues with the thrusters. Okay. [00:56:40] Which you need to kind of reorient yourself so you land in the ocean where people are gonna pick you up, right? 'cause you don't wanna just land randomly and then someone has to come find you. They need to know [00:56:50] exactly where you are. So they've been going back and forth, deciding what to do. And finally, I think. Thankfully, NASA said, okay, we're not gonna bring them back on the Starliner. So the Starliner is actually [00:57:00] supposed to undo from the Space station Friday. So on what would that be? The fixed. Okay. And come down UNC crewed. So with no humans, which was not the plan initially. And is it an in [00:57:10] an automated system that will navigate it without humans Back to earth? It should be. And you know, it's less of a risk if it now lands hundreds of miles off target. Right. Because [00:57:20] you're not worried about saving human lives. Right. Right. So it'll get back. I mean, I, I have no doubt about that. But what the issue is, is now they have to wait till February for the next [00:57:30] planned NASA launch with SpaceX and the crew Dragon. Wow. So that's annoying. I mean, I'm sure they don't mind being in space. Maybe they don't wanna be there eight months. This might be both [00:57:40] their last flights, honestly and might've been their last flights. Mm-hmm. In general. 'cause they're both kind of, have been with NASA a long time, but eight months is a long time to miss like your kids in school. Right? Like [00:57:50] Butch has a high school daughter, so Wow. Wow. Maybe three months is good. Six months, eight months is a bit long. The other issue is because they are having to come back on a [00:58:00] SpaceX ship. That crew was supposed to have four people in February going up. Right. Okay. But now two people got kicked off. So two women who are planning on going to [00:58:10] space in February now are getting pushed back. So that's got big implications, right. For everyone. Mm-hmm. So it's a problem. I mean, NASA's handling it, they're doing a great job, but it's unfortunate for kind of [00:58:20] everyone involved. And then the other question has to be, does Boeing now get paid? Because the way the contract is met is that they get paid for hitting certain milestones. And so [00:58:30] does this count as hitting the milestone of ferrying people up and back from space? 'cause they didn't bring them back so, right. No one's kind of stated how NASA's gonna [00:58:40] do with that. It's like a half payment kind of. Yeah. I mean they got halfway there. Yeah, there. What about things like food supplies? I mean, does the Space station have enough [00:58:50] resources to house a couple extra people for eight months? Yeah. And you know there's always supply ships that you don't hear about. So there are Oh really? Ships going up with just supplies. Pretty [00:59:00] frequently. Un crewed. Un crewed. Yeah. Which is why lower earth orbit is easier than the moon because you can send stuff up in a couple days, you know, up to the space station. It's hard to send things to the moon [00:59:10] when we finally get there. I had no idea. I had no idea. The hardest part is they have to use scrubbers to get rid of the CO2. If you think of Apollo 13, where you know, [00:59:20] that was the big issue was the CO2 levels. 'cause your body cannot handle high CO2 levels. So when there are more people on the space station like there are now, okay, yeah. You have higher [00:59:30] levels of CO2 and I think it was Mark Kelly who said it would always be a little uncomfortable when a new crew would come, or, and you'd have more people because now your CO2 levels go up [00:59:40] and you could feel it. People are just a little groggier. Yeah. Yeah. Either a little more fatigued, foggy or like grumpy. So that's a real issue. Not dangerous, [00:59:50] but just like interesting. Uncomfortable. Well, we will be watching that story and of course just optimistically hoping for the best there, but fascinating to get your perspective. [01:00:00] Having just gone up in the rocket, what is something that surprised you the most about the mission? I mean really I think it was [01:00:10] how utterly void of color spaces. People say it's black, but I never knew a black like that. I never knew that kind of just [01:00:20] lack of color. It's like an ink. Well, like you know that dark, dark, dark blackness, but it didn't stop. And that's even with like the brightness of the earth. That's just like reflecting [01:00:30] all this light. So you see this bright earth that right next to it is this super dark. I think that was the most surprising. It's amazing. Where do you [01:00:40] think space travel is going over the next decade, over the next five decades? I mean, where is all this going? Yeah, so if you're to believe the [01:00:50] plans we have with both NASA and SpaceX and even Blue Origin, I think we'll get to the moon. So my hope is NASA's gonna be able to do their Artemis mission, which is their [01:01:00] moon missions. We're supposed to orbit the moon with a crude flight for people. It was supposed to be in 2025, but now it's gonna be 2026. Hopefully we'll be able to [01:01:10] set up some sort of space station around the moon or actual. Like station on the moon, I am hopeful that we are going to build commercial like space [01:01:20] stations around low earth orbit. So blue origin's working on something called Orbital Reef, which is a, it's a space station, a commercial space station. So then you and I could go, if we had [01:01:30] enough funds or someone to sponsor us and do either research on the space station or visit, right. And it would be owned by Blue Origin and private entities. There is [01:01:40] discussion about Mars. I think Mars is very hard because of both the time it takes. We don't have the technology to move us quickly, so it's a three year round trip. And the radiation really, [01:01:50] humans don't have the shielding yet to protect from the radiation like we need, and the radiation would kill us. So I think that's what really limits us from going to Mars. But I think the moon is reasonable and I [01:02:00] think privatizing lower Earth orbit is also reasonable in the next decade or two. So you're a cardiologist at Vanderbilt. You study and take care of people's [01:02:10] hearts. Do you follow your mind, your gut, or your heart when you're making decisions? I would say that I follow my [01:02:20] mind, guided by my heart, and I only say that because I'm dealing with humans. And some humans are happy to take my medical advice, but others [01:02:30] provide pushback. And that's where I have to kind of use my heart. I know what medically is the correct thing to do, but I have to guide them or kind of be okay with them not wanting to [01:02:40] follow guideline directed therapies. What is something that people underestimate about you? What are you often misjudged about? I think my tenacity, I think I [01:02:50] grew up not speaking, you know, it's hard 'cause I'm trying to do social media now, but I've never been one to be like, this is what I'm doing, here I am. And so then I show up with [01:03:00] things achieved and people are like, oh okay. Like how did that happen? And it's 'cause at the end of the day, I am just trying to stick to a plan and do the work day [01:03:10] in and day out, whatever that goal may be. If it's trying to get in shape, trying to become a doctor, meeting Arnold Schwarzenegger or going to space, I think that, [01:03:20] you know. I will put in the effort but not necessarily publicize it. Well, you've certainly proven your tenacity with this one. When we spoke a week ago, I asked you if [01:03:30] you felt like you were more of a precedent breaker, a precedent setter, or someone who maintains precedent. You had, you know, an incredible answer at the time.[01:03:40] After this experience, do you think your answer has changed? No, and I will say that while I love my job driving in [01:03:50] today and having a full load all week, I was like, it sure would be nice. To be able to do something where I am kind of in charge and I'm driving the ship that I am able to [01:04:00] choose how that change is kind of manifested. All right. Well, Dr. Iman Jge, thank you so much for sharing in detail this incredible [01:04:10] experience of you becoming an astronaut. It really is quite something. We're all so, so proud of you and so happy to have you back safely as well. Thank you. It's my pleasure. [01:04:20] Iman's account of what it's like to go to space is pretty remarkable. His description of the overview effect is quite profound, and I loved his dramatic behind the scenes [01:04:30] backstories as a space for humanity official ambassador. He sees a future where space is democratized and is accessible to everyone. We aren't too far away from moon bases [01:04:40] and suborbital space stations. His lifelong story of perseverance and tenacity are incredibly inspiring as well. Our family is so proud of him for achieving his dream, and I'm [01:04:50] grateful he could come on and. All the behind the scenes details of this precedent setting mission. Thank you for listening to Breaking Precedent. Remember to click the follow button on your favorite [01:05:00] podcast app so you never miss one of these exciting conversations that challenges the status quo and inspires change. And if you know someone who is trailblazing a unique [01:05:10] path, I wanna hear their story, you can send a note to me on my website, breaking precedent.com. Until next time, I'm Leah Sullivan.