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The MAGA Rift Over War in Iran · Pod Save America

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Speaker 1: Use code CRICKET. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
1:33
Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
1:34
Speaker 1: On today's show, we'll talk about Pete Hegseth and Tulsi
1:36
Speaker 1: Gabbard falling out of favor with Trump, masked federal agents
1:40
Speaker 1: arresting more Democratic politicians, Senate Republicans making even deeper Medicaid cuts,
1:44
Speaker 1: and more drama at the DNC. Then later, you'll hear
1:48
Speaker 1: Tommy's conversation with Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell, who stopped by
1:51
Speaker 1: the studio this week. But let's start with the war
1:54
Speaker 1: between Israel and Iran, which Donald Trump has not yet
1:57
Speaker 1: decided to join as of this recording late Thursday. The
2:00
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal broke the story that Trump has approved
2:03
Speaker 1: final attack plans that would likely involve a U.S. strike
2:06
Speaker 1: on Iran's underground nuclear enrichment site, which Israeli weapons can't reach.
2:11
Speaker 1: But the president still hasn't decided if he'll order the strike.
2:14
Speaker 1: Axios reports that Trump is pressing his advisers on how
2:16
Speaker 1: confident they are that American bunker buster bombs could fully
2:20
Speaker 1: destroy the site at Fordow. Ever the game show host,
2:24
Speaker 1: Trump seems content to build suspense, keep everyone guessing as
2:27
Speaker 1: he muses publicly about the decision. The White House did
2:30
Speaker 1: say on Thursday that he'll make his final decision within
2:34
Speaker 1: the next two weeks, which is a longer time frame
2:37
Speaker 1: than reports have suggested. They also suggested that there might
2:40
Speaker 1: be a possibility for diplomacy. So potentially some good news there.
2:44
Speaker 1: But here's some of what Trump himself has been saying
2:47
Speaker 1: about this.
2:48
Speaker 3: Now, I may do it. I may not do it.
2:49
Speaker 2: I mean, nobody knows what I'm going to do.
2:51
Speaker 3: I can tell you this, that Iran's got a lot
2:54
Speaker 3: of trouble.
2:56
Speaker 1: Just wonderful. Wise, wise words. So we should note that
3:00
Speaker 1: the Israeli government seems intent on destroying not just Iran's
3:05
Speaker 1: nuclear program, but the regime itself. The AP reports that
3:09
Speaker 1: more than 600 people have already been killed in Iran
3:11
Speaker 1: and more than 2,000 wounded, nearly all of them civilians
3:14
Speaker 1: who have nothing to do with Iran's nuclear program. The
3:17
Speaker 1: numbers are going up in Israel, too, where 24 people
3:19
Speaker 1: have been killed and hundreds more injured. including in an
3:22
Speaker 1: Israeli hospital that was just hit by an Iranian missile. Dan,
3:26
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on where we are and the
3:28
Speaker 1: prospect of America joining another regime change war in the
3:32
Speaker 1: Middle East?
3:34
Speaker 2: The whole experience of this past week has felt so
3:37
Speaker 2: surreal for people like you and I who are of
3:39
Speaker 2: an advanced age, and I know I'm of a more
3:40
Speaker 2: advanced age, blah, blah, blah, who were around in politics
3:44
Speaker 2: in 2003 when we marched stupidly into a war in
3:48
Speaker 2: Iraq where we, as a country, decided, to invade the
3:51
Speaker 2: wrong country after 9-11. And it just feels like a
3:55
Speaker 2: large portion of Washington and the press and the people
3:59
Speaker 2: who talk about and work in foreign policy have gotten amnesia.
4:03
Speaker 2: This just seems so dumb and so poorly thought out.
4:08
Speaker 2: Let's just say, hypothetically, the US does get involved and
4:11
Speaker 2: they do launch the bunker buster bomb on this site
4:14
Speaker 2: and they damage it or destroy it. That does not
4:18
Speaker 2: end Iran's nuclear ambitions. It just delays them. So a
4:22
Speaker 2: year from now, two years from now, three years from now,
4:24
Speaker 2: we're right back in the same place, which is why
4:29
Speaker 2: there are two choices then. If the goal is to
4:32
Speaker 2: make sure that Iran is not a nuclear weapon, as
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Speaker 2: people in both parties have said, but if that's the goal,
4:35
Speaker 2: your choice is diplomacy, to have a deal with Iran
4:39
Speaker 2: to allow them to have civilian nuclear power but not
4:42
Speaker 2: a nuclear weapon, like the deal that President Obama had
4:44
Speaker 2: with them during his presidency that Trump got out of,
4:48
Speaker 2: or do what Israel wants, which is to engage in
4:51
Speaker 2: regime change in Iran, a country that is twice the
4:55
Speaker 2: size of Iraq. And we know how well that went
4:57
Speaker 2: in Iraq. And so it seems like that would drag
4:59
Speaker 2: the United States into a conflict that would be more deadly,
5:04
Speaker 2: more dangerous, and last longer and be more expensive, most likely,
5:08
Speaker 2: than what happened in Iraq. And that's where we're headed.
5:11
Speaker 2: It just seems like none of the people who are
5:13
Speaker 2: cheerleading this have thought this through beyond excitement they're going
5:16
Speaker 2: to get when CNN broadcasts the footage of the bunker
5:20
Speaker 2: buster bomb hitting in Iran.
5:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the proponents of military action have this
5:28
Speaker 1: view that, you know, the U.S. conducts a strike, the
5:33
Speaker 1: nuclear facility is destroyed, and then we're all done. And
5:37
Speaker 1: then the U.S. is done and we can just walk
5:39
Speaker 1: away from this. And first of all, there's no guarantee
5:42
Speaker 1: at all that the strike succeeds. It might not completely
5:45
Speaker 1: destroy the nuclear site underground at Fordow, which reportedly is
5:50
Speaker 1: one reason why Donald Trump is going back and forth
5:52
Speaker 1: on this, because, you know, there's no guarantee that even
5:54
Speaker 1: if the strike hits the facility, that it will destroy
5:57
Speaker 1: all of it. it's very possible that the Iranians could
6:01
Speaker 1: have moved some of the components to different parts of
6:03
Speaker 1: the country, could have other nuclear sites that we don't
6:05
Speaker 1: know about. So like, there's just no guarantee there.
6:08
Speaker 2: It's like, of course they're moving them. We've been promising
6:10
Speaker 2: to bomb them for days now. And now Trump told
6:12
Speaker 2: him they got maybe two weeks to do it. Like, obviously.
6:16
Speaker 1: And then even if for some reason we do that
6:18
Speaker 1: and then the regime falls, either because of Israel or
6:22
Speaker 1: because of it just, you know, because of popular uprising
6:25
Speaker 1: or whatever, there is also... No guarantee. And it doesn't
6:29
Speaker 1: even seem likely that a new regime would either be
6:32
Speaker 1: friendly to either of the countries that just tried to
6:35
Speaker 1: destroy their country and kill a lot of their people,
6:38
Speaker 1: nor is it likely that the new regime will not
6:42
Speaker 1: try to get another nuclear weapon. And in fact, if
6:44
Speaker 1: a new regime or the same regime, even if the
6:47
Speaker 1: nuclear program is completely destroyed, estimates are that Iran could
6:51
Speaker 1: reconstitute the nuclear program and get a nuclear weapon within
6:55
Speaker 1: 10 to 15 years, right? Which was the original timeframe
6:58
Speaker 1: of the Iran deal back in 2015. So no one
7:03
Speaker 1: is thinking through the second, third, fourth order consequences of
7:07
Speaker 1: what happens when you try to launch a US military
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Speaker 1: strike on a regime to try to get rid of
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Speaker 1: a nuclear weapon while Israel is launching a full-out war
7:17
Speaker 1: against this regime. And people making the argument, well, the
7:21
Speaker 1: Iranian regime is at its weakest right now and their proxies,
7:24
Speaker 1: Hezbollah and Hamas, are damaged and so they don't have
7:27
Speaker 1: as much power and Russia's occupied with the war in
7:30
Speaker 1: Ukraine and so this is the right moment and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
7:33
Speaker 1: But it's like, it's not a question of whether or
7:35
Speaker 1: not it's the right moment to launch a military strike.
7:38
Speaker 1: It's the question of whether the best way to deal
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Speaker 1: with a regime that wants to acquire a nuclear weapon
7:45
Speaker 1: is with military force or diplomacy. And You don't pick
7:49
Speaker 1: diplomacy just because you're like a pacifist who doesn't want war.
7:53
Speaker 1: You pick diplomacy because that is very likely the more
7:57
Speaker 1: effective way to prevent Iran from having a nuclear weapon.
8:00
Speaker 1: So it's fucking insane. And also, you know, all the
8:04
Speaker 1: polls out so far show that people do not want
8:08
Speaker 1: this war. They do not want a U.S. military action.
8:10
Speaker 1: You know, you can... I was talking to Tommy about this.
8:13
Speaker 1: Some of these polls, you can like word the question
8:16
Speaker 1: so that it's, you know, do you support... the United
8:19
Speaker 1: States supporting Israel in trying to prevent them from getting
8:23
Speaker 1: a nuclear weapon, prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon,
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Speaker 1: and then you get more support than you do otherwise.
8:28
Speaker 1: But the closer the question is to, do you actually
8:31
Speaker 1: support a U.S. military strike in Iran? The more opposition
8:35
Speaker 1: you get. And it's not just opposition from Democrats. It's
8:37
Speaker 1: not just opposition from independents. It's the opposition from a
8:40
Speaker 1: good chunk of the Republican base as well.
8:42
Speaker 2: It's less than 20% of Trump voters support the idea.
8:45
Speaker 3: Yeah.
8:46
Speaker 1: And again, like you can, Because I saw, you know,
8:48
Speaker 1: Echelon had a poll out where people were more supportive
8:51
Speaker 1: of supporting Israel on this. But it all depends on
8:55
Speaker 1: how you were, as you know, right? This all depends
8:57
Speaker 1: on how you were to question. And especially when you're
8:59
Speaker 1: dealing with matters of foreign policy and war, like most
9:03
Speaker 1: voters aren't equipped to know exactly what the context is
9:07
Speaker 1: and what the situation is and what all the details
9:08
Speaker 1: are before they're asked to give a judgment. But the
9:12
Speaker 1: more that you actually lay out what could happen, with
9:16
Speaker 1: military force, even if it's not sending US troops in
9:18
Speaker 1: with military strikes, whatever, the more opposed people are.
9:22
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't even need a poll for that.
9:24
Speaker 2: That's been the core defining aspect of American politics for
9:27
Speaker 2: the last 20 years, has been a reaction to the
9:31
Speaker 2: failed war in Iraq. It explains Barack Obama's candidacy, explains
9:34
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's candidacy, explains Donald Trump being able to run
9:38
Speaker 2: and win a Republican primary by trashing the Bush family,
9:41
Speaker 2: Republican royalty. There's If we have one strike and that's it,
9:45
Speaker 2: is there going to be this massive rebellion and people
9:47
Speaker 2: are going to care? Probably not. But people do not
9:49
Speaker 2: want to be in a war, period, in the Middle East.
9:53
Speaker 2: That is just as simple. You roar the question however
9:55
Speaker 2: you want. The reality is that it would be massively
9:57
Speaker 2: unpopular if all of a sudden US troops are losing
10:00
Speaker 2: their lives or U.S. tax dollars are being spent in
10:04
Speaker 2: another regime change war in the Middle East.
10:06
Speaker 1: Tommy and Ben made this point on Pod Save the World,
10:08
Speaker 1: which of course everyone should go listen to because they
10:10
Speaker 1: do a much better job than us talking about.
10:13
Speaker 3: All the implications here.
10:13
Speaker 2: Well, let's finish first before we make any judgments.
10:16
Speaker 1: No, but we attack Iran. We join this war. Um,
10:19
Speaker 1: They're going to try to retaliate against us. And that
10:23
Speaker 1: could be a retaliation against U.S. troops in the Middle East.
10:26
Speaker 1: We have thousands and thousands of troops all over the
10:28
Speaker 1: Middle East. That could be against American civilians. There's a
10:31
Speaker 1: possibility that they have, you know, sleeper cell agents that
10:35
Speaker 1: they could activate potentially in the United States or just
10:38
Speaker 1: other parts around the world when there are American civilians, tourists,
10:42
Speaker 1: you know, going around, traveling around the world somewhere. There
10:46
Speaker 1: could be a terror attack against them.
10:47
Speaker 3: All right.
10:48
Speaker 1: And like that doesn't necessarily. And as Tommy and Ben
10:50
Speaker 1: pointed out, that doesn't necessarily have to happen right after
10:54
Speaker 1: we launch a strike. It could be a year from now,
10:56
Speaker 1: two years from now. But once we have joined this action,
11:00
Speaker 1: then they're going to try as hard as they can
11:02
Speaker 1: to retaliate against us. And then we force to retaliate again.
11:05
Speaker 3: Yep, exactly.
11:06
Speaker 1: And this is what happens. You know, wars are, they're
11:09
Speaker 1: easier to start than end.
11:10
Speaker 2: Just one more point on this, just so we hammer it,
11:12
Speaker 2: is there is no evidence that anyone's provided that shows
11:15
Speaker 2: that the strikes had to happen now. that Iran was
11:19
Speaker 2: on the cusp of getting a nuclear weapon. Trump's own,
11:21
Speaker 2: we'll get to this, intelligence community says that, the world says,
11:24
Speaker 2: and if Israel had that smoking gun proof, they would
11:28
Speaker 2: be everywhere with it. And so they just thought now
11:30
Speaker 2: was the time for a whole host of reasons, and
11:32
Speaker 2: they went for it, but it is not because there
11:34
Speaker 2: was an imminent threat from a nuclear weapon to Israel
11:37
Speaker 2: or the United States.
11:38
Speaker 1: No, it's because Iran's weaker now than it's been in
11:42
Speaker 1: any time in recent history. That's it. That's the reason.
11:45
Speaker 1: So the big political subplot here has been the open
11:48
Speaker 1: fighting within Trump's MAGA coalition about what he should do.
11:51
Speaker 1: A lot of administration types have been telling reporters that
11:54
Speaker 1: Trump is leaning toward greenlighting an attack. But the more
11:57
Speaker 1: isolationist wing of MAGA, they're making a lot of noise, too.
12:00
Speaker 1: By now, you've probably seen or heard about the interview
12:03
Speaker 1: where Tucker Carlson absolutely savages Ted Cruz. But let's roll
12:08
Speaker 1: it again anyway.
12:09
Speaker 4: How many people live in Iran, by the way? I
12:11
Speaker 4: don't know the population. At all?
12:13
Speaker 5: No, I don't know the population.
12:15
Speaker 4: You don't know the population of the country you seek
12:17
Speaker 4: to topple?
12:19
Speaker 5: How many people live in Iran?
12:20
Speaker 4: 92 million. Okay. How could you not know that?
12:24
Speaker 5: I don't sit around memorizing population tables.
12:28
Speaker 4: Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the
12:30
Speaker 4: overthrow of the government.
12:32
Speaker 5: Why is it relevant whether it's 90 million or 80
12:34
Speaker 5: million or 100 million? Why is that relevant?
12:36
Speaker 4: Because if you don't know anything about the country— I
12:38
Speaker 4: didn't say I don't know anything about the country. Okay,
12:39
Speaker 4: what's the ethnic mix of Iran?
12:42
Speaker 5: They are Persians and predominantly Shia. Okay, this is cute.
12:45
Speaker 4: No, it's not even, you don't know anything about Iran.
12:48
Speaker 5: So actually the country- Okay, I am not the Tucker
12:50
Speaker 5: Carlson expert on Iran who says- You're a senator who's
12:53
Speaker 5: calling for the overthrow of the government and you don't
12:56
Speaker 5: know anything about the country. No, you don't know anything
12:58
Speaker 5: about the country. I was taught from the Bible, those
13:01
Speaker 5: who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse
13:03
Speaker 5: Israel will be cursed.
13:05
Speaker 4: So you're quoting a Bible phrase you don't have context
13:09
Speaker 4: for and you don't know where in the Bible it is,
13:10
Speaker 4: but that's like your theology? I'm confused. What does that
13:13
Speaker 4: even mean?
13:14
Speaker 3: Tucker.
13:15
Speaker 4: I'm a Christian. I want to know what you're talking about.
13:17
Speaker 5: In terms of hitmen, their hitmen are not very effective.
13:20
Speaker 4: I do think— Oh, so they're hitmen, but not the
13:22
Speaker 4: bad kind, the efficient kind?
13:23
Speaker 5: No, they're just— What are you saying? They're a weak
13:25
Speaker 5: country who is on its knees, and I think we
13:27
Speaker 5: need to.
13:27
Speaker 4: Then why are we so afraid of them? Why are
13:29
Speaker 4: they the biggest threat if they're a weak country that's
13:30
Speaker 4: on its knees?
13:31
Speaker 5: Because they're trying— I'm trying to keep track. They're trying
13:33
Speaker 5: to develop— Be a little less snarky.
13:38
Speaker 4: I know, you're right. That is a problem that I have.
13:40
Speaker 4: I'm sorry.
13:40
Speaker 5: Okay.
13:43
Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that there should be anything enjoyable about
13:46
Speaker 1: watching Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz debate war in the
13:49
Speaker 1: Middle East, but it's hard not to enjoy that.
13:52
Speaker 2: Of course there's something enjoyable about it.
13:54
Speaker 1: It's hard not to enjoy that. And you know, it's
13:57
Speaker 1: obviously it's Tucker Carlson. We know, we know, but I
14:00
Speaker 1: don't know. Sure would be nice to hear other journalists
14:03
Speaker 1: and reporters interview people like Ted Cruz with that level
14:09
Speaker 1: of skill and expertise. And look, Just to be fair,
14:12
Speaker 1: part of this is because people like Ted Cruz refuse
14:15
Speaker 1: to sit down with real journalists anymore. They all just
14:18
Speaker 1: go on each other's MAGA-aligned podcasts and Fox News, and
14:22
Speaker 1: that's it. And they rarely sit down with actual journalists.
14:25
Speaker 1: So I guess that's what we get now. What did
14:27
Speaker 1: you make of that exchange?
14:29
Speaker 2: Thoroughly enjoyable. Do I like rooting for Tucker Carlson in
14:32
Speaker 2: a fight?
14:33
Speaker 6: No.
14:34
Speaker 2: Do I think it's totally fair to quiz people on
14:36
Speaker 2: the exact demographic breakdown of a country? Maybe not. Was
14:40
Speaker 2: it great to watch? Absolutely.
14:43
Speaker 3: It was, I mean, there is.
14:44
Speaker 2: Just something truly pleasurable about watching Ted Cruz get rhetorically
14:48
Speaker 2: punched in the smug face. I enjoyed it. And I
14:51
Speaker 2: don't want to have any, and I know it's, I
14:53
Speaker 2: know it's, it's a serious topic and Tucker Carlson's a
14:56
Speaker 2: terrible human being, but you know what? We deserve this.
15:00
Speaker 2: Not like you and me, but everyone listening. It's been
15:02
Speaker 2: a tough time. Like, I think we're allowed to enjoy
15:04
Speaker 2: this without any sort of complicated feelings about it. Just
15:08
Speaker 2: enjoy it. The one serious part here is that Tucker
15:12
Speaker 2: Carlson does, through his snarky ways, expose something that is
15:17
Speaker 2: true about Ted Cruz and all the other people who
15:19
Speaker 2: are cheerleading for a war of which they've given very
15:22
Speaker 2: little thought about the context, the consequences, what comes next.
15:27
Speaker 2: And that's mostly Republicans who are cheerleading them. It's not
15:29
Speaker 2: only Republicans. My take so far has been that too
15:33
Speaker 2: many Democrats have been too afraid to speak out against
15:37
Speaker 2: this possible war, to speak up for diplomacy out of
15:40
Speaker 2: fear of looking weak. And Democrats being afraid of looking
15:43
Speaker 2: weak on war is how we ended up in Iraq
15:45
Speaker 2: in the first place. And being against war is not weak.
15:50
Speaker 2: Swallowing what you truly believe because you're afraid someone's going
15:53
Speaker 2: to run a negative ad against you if a war
15:54
Speaker 2: goes well, that's weak.
15:57
Speaker 1: Also, the penchant to use religion, in this case, the
16:02
Speaker 1: Jewish religion, to somehow justify every action of the Israeli government,
16:07
Speaker 1: at which, you know, Tucker nails him on, because he
16:09
Speaker 1: finally says at one point, he's like, well, it's in
16:11
Speaker 1: the book of Genesis. And so Tucker's like, so the
16:13
Speaker 1: first book of Genesis, first book in the Bible, in
16:15
Speaker 1: the Old Testament, and the message from God was, you
16:19
Speaker 1: must support Bibi Netanyahu and the government of Israel thousands
16:23
Speaker 1: of years into the future. Like, what the fuck are
16:25
Speaker 1: you talking about? It is so, and just this idea that, like, oh,
16:30
Speaker 1: they are so weak and on their knees now, so
16:31
Speaker 1: this is the right time to strike. I thought they
16:33
Speaker 1: were supposed to be big and scary. It's like, uh.
16:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is just inherent contradiction after inherent contradiction in
16:39
Speaker 2: the arguments for this war.
16:42
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this rift more broadly within the mega coalition.
16:46
Speaker 1: You know, Trump himself has downplayed it. He said that
16:49
Speaker 1: Tucker already apologized to him, which I don't really buy.
16:53
Speaker 1: On the other hand, you know, you got influential Trump
16:56
Speaker 1: supporters like Charlie Kirk, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Steve Bannon. all
16:59
Speaker 1: have been highly critical of going to war. Podcaster slash
17:04
Speaker 1: comedian Theo Vaughn spoke out on Thursday. And Dave Smith,
17:07
Speaker 1: a comedian who's on Rogan a lot, went so far
17:10
Speaker 1: as to apologize for ever supporting Trump and called for
17:13
Speaker 1: his impeachment. More on Dave Smith later. We have a
17:17
Speaker 1: little dessert for you at the end of this episode,
17:20
Speaker 1: if you stick with us. But Dan, how serious Rift
17:23
Speaker 1: do you think it is? And how much does it matter?
17:28
Speaker 2: We all, as Democrats, hope that there is this moment
17:32
Speaker 2: of enlightenment where everyone takes off their MAGA hats, throws
17:36
Speaker 2: them in the garbage, and either abandons Trump, becomes a
17:42
Speaker 2: listener to the bulwark, or even, dare I say, a
17:45
Speaker 2: Democrat in good standing. They see the light for what
17:47
Speaker 2: we all believe about Trump. That's not a moment that's
17:51
Speaker 2: ever coming. I'm sure that a lot of these prominent
17:54
Speaker 2: people whose power and money is tied to being pro-Trump.
17:58
Speaker 2: We'll find a way to rationalize this if we go
18:00
Speaker 2: down the war path. But I think for the average voter,
18:04
Speaker 2: the entirely apocryphal idea that Donald Trump is anti-war was
18:08
Speaker 2: an important rationale for why you were okay supporting him
18:12
Speaker 2: despite all of his flaws. And so there are always
18:14
Speaker 2: consequences of some measure when you do something that violates
18:18
Speaker 2: what was your core political identity to one of your constituencies.
18:22
Speaker 2: And this is Politics happens on the margins. And so
18:26
Speaker 2: if there's some number of people who already feel like
18:28
Speaker 2: Donald Trump has maybe abandoned them on the economy, on
18:31
Speaker 2: some of the other things he's promised to do, he
18:34
Speaker 2: said he was going to lower costs, he's raising costs,
18:36
Speaker 2: and then you also do this, that has consequences. And
18:39
Speaker 2: that is going to put more downward pressure on his numbers,
18:41
Speaker 2: I think.
18:42
Speaker 5: Yeah.
18:43
Speaker 1: What we want here, and I'm thinking about the conversation
18:46
Speaker 1: I had with Erica Chenoweth, is we want defections from
18:50
Speaker 1: the regime here. And the defections aren't always going to
18:53
Speaker 1: be on the same issue or from the same set
18:55
Speaker 1: of people. But that matters less than the fact that
18:58
Speaker 1: you continue to have people peel away from the Trump regime.
19:02
Speaker 1: And either they don't have to necessarily leave and then
19:05
Speaker 1: come out against Trump and join us in the streets.
19:09
Speaker 1: But they can at least stop participating, right? Like Elon Musk,
19:12
Speaker 1: not part of the government anymore. We're about to talk
19:15
Speaker 1: about Tulsi Gabbard, who's in the administration is also doesn't
19:19
Speaker 1: seem like she's in favor of this war. So and
19:21
Speaker 1: then of course, you have all these all these voters, right?
19:23
Speaker 3: You have the Some of.
19:24
Speaker 1: The podcasters who supported Trump because they thought he was anti-war.
19:27
Speaker 1: You got some of the people in Silicon Valley who
19:30
Speaker 1: thought that maybe they wouldn't add more to the deficit.
19:33
Speaker 1: Whatever the fucking reason is, you just want to peel
19:36
Speaker 1: more support away from Trump and the regime. And that
19:39
Speaker 1: is a good thing. And that just weakens him and weakens,
19:42
Speaker 1: you know, J.D. Vance or whoever else may try to
19:45
Speaker 1: run and take over for him if he lets that happen.
19:48
Speaker 2: And dissatisfaction of the base matters a lot in the midterm,
19:51
Speaker 2: where base turnout is much more tied to the outcome
19:54
Speaker 2: than in a presidential election with a much larger electorate.
19:57
Speaker 3: Yes.
19:58
Speaker 1: So there's also some drama within the Trump administration over
20:01
Speaker 1: the Iran decision. Washington Post has a story sourced to
20:04
Speaker 1: current U.S. officials and people close to the White House
20:07
Speaker 1: that says Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard and Defense
20:10
Speaker 1: Secretary Pete Hegseth are not part of the inner circle
20:13
Speaker 1: on Iran deliberations. One official said, quote, Nobody is talking
20:18
Speaker 1: to Hegseth. There is no interface operationally between Hegseth and
20:22
Speaker 1: the White House at all. That's tough. As for Gabbard,
20:25
Speaker 1: she testified earlier this year that she didn't think Iran
20:28
Speaker 1: was close to having a nuclear weapon. Trump was asked
20:30
Speaker 1: about that testimony on Air Force One this week. Here's
20:33
Speaker 1: a CNN clip of Tulsi's testimony and Trump's response.
20:37
Speaker 2: The IC continues to assess that Iran is not building
20:39
Speaker 2: a nuclear weapon, and Supreme Leader Khamenei has not authorized
20:43
Speaker 2: the nuclear weapons program that he suspended in 2003.
20:45
Speaker 3: How close do.
20:47
Speaker 5: You personally think that they were to getting one?
20:50
Speaker 3: Because Tulsi Gabbard testified in March that the intelligence community
20:54
Speaker 3: said Iran wasn't building a nuclear weapon.
20:56
Speaker 5: I don't care what she said.
20:57
Speaker 4: I think they were very close to having one.
21:00
Speaker 1: I don't care what she said. His own director of
21:03
Speaker 1: national intelligence. So do we think that, why do we
21:07
Speaker 1: think Tulsi and Pete got kicked off the Iran PC
21:11
Speaker 1: small group signal chat?
21:14
Speaker 2: To make room for Jeff Goldberg?
21:19
Speaker 1: I mean, we should take them separately because I do
21:21
Speaker 1: think there's different reasons for both of them. Yeah.
21:23
Speaker 2: I mean, in this case, Tulsi Gabbard's a dissenting voice.
21:27
Speaker 2: Trump is also reportedly mad at her about a video
21:29
Speaker 2: that she did.
21:31
Speaker 1: Have you seen this video?
21:32
Speaker 2: I have seen the video, yes. It's very strange and disturbing.
21:35
Speaker 1: Very disturbing. It's a video, by the way, she went
21:37
Speaker 1: to Hiroshima and she made what seems like an educational
21:41
Speaker 1: video about what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and what
21:47
Speaker 1: would happen if there was a nuclear war today and
21:50
Speaker 1: how nuclear weapons today are much bigger. But it's very disturbing.
21:53
Speaker 1: There's like a AI graphic representation of San Francisco being nuked.
22:00
Speaker 1: It's disturbing, disturbing.
22:01
Speaker 2: Somehow Trump thought this was about him. Not really sure
22:06
Speaker 2: why it bothered him, but it did bother him, which
22:08
Speaker 2: is what led him to snap at Tulsa. But he
22:10
Speaker 2: obviously was not at all familiar with her March testimony.
22:13
Speaker 2: And then Hegsath is a different case. He just is
22:17
Speaker 2: in so far- He's an idiot. Yeah, he's an idiot.
22:19
Speaker 2: He's in so far of her set. Maybe in the
22:22
Speaker 2: history of government has been more in over their head
22:25
Speaker 2: than the weekend cable host being in charge of the Pentagon.
22:29
Speaker 1: Shocking.
22:30
Speaker 3: Yeah.
22:30
Speaker 2: Who could have, no one could have seen this coming.
22:32
Speaker 1: No one could have seen this coming. Just who knew?
22:34
Speaker 1: And of course the Hegseth people are like pushing back and,
22:36
Speaker 1: you know, they said he was in a cabinet meeting
22:38
Speaker 1: and all that, but.
22:40
Speaker 2: Oh, he made the same meeting as the small business administrator. Congratulations.
22:43
Speaker 2: Welcome to the inner circle, Pete Hegseth.
22:45
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's pretty like, and you know how Trump is.
22:48
Speaker 1: Trump doesn't want to, well, especially Trump in the second term,
22:51
Speaker 1: He thinks that all the firings in the first term
22:54
Speaker 1: went poorly for him or sort of hurt his agenda.
22:57
Speaker 1: He wants loyalty, so he's probably not going to do
23:00
Speaker 1: anything to Pete. But according to all the reports, he's
23:02
Speaker 1: going over him right to chairman of the Joint Chiefs,
23:05
Speaker 1: some generals, and he seems to be out of the loop.
23:09
Speaker 1: And he's got the true neocons like Marco Rubio and
23:12
Speaker 1: John Ratcliffe by his side.
23:14
Speaker 2: And J.D. Vance just with his finger in the wind
23:15
Speaker 2: trying to figure out which way this thing is going.
23:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, of course. Just, you know, trying to
23:20
Speaker 1: bully trans people on Blue Sky while they're having sit-room
23:23
Speaker 1: meetings on Iran, which is basically what happened on Wednesday.
23:27
Speaker 1: Just decided to create a Blue Sky account, got suspended
23:31
Speaker 1: within five minutes because Blue Sky, and then came back on,
23:35
Speaker 1: wrote about the Supreme Court decision on, you know, upholding
23:39
Speaker 1: Tennessee's ban on gender-affirming care for kids, for trans kids,
23:43
Speaker 1: and decided to, like, write a whole diatribe about that
23:46
Speaker 1: on blue sky literally while the sit room meeting on
23:49
Speaker 1: around was happening so which.
23:50
Speaker 2: Does make you wonder about either his true involvement in
23:54
Speaker 2: the inner circle decision making or his adherence to situation
23:57
Speaker 2: room protocols about locking your phone in a locker before
24:01
Speaker 2: you walk in so that foreign governments can't listen to
24:04
Speaker 2: the meeting.
24:05
Speaker 1: Yeah well they take operational security very seriously as we
24:08
Speaker 1: know he's just going back and forth.
24:09
Speaker 2: Between blue sky and whatsapp the whole time.
24:21
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Speaker 1: at betterhelp.com.psa. That's betterhelp.com.psa. Speaking of Pete Hegseth, our man
26:03
Speaker 1: at the Pentagon didn't have the easiest go of it
26:05
Speaker 1: when he testified in front of the Armed Services Committee
26:07
Speaker 1: on Wednesday and got questioned from Senate Democrats about the
26:10
Speaker 1: politicization of the military and deploying active troops online. to
26:14
Speaker 1: American streets. Here's a sampling.
26:16
Speaker 6: Have you given the order to be able to shoot
26:21
Speaker 6: at unarmed protesters in any way?
26:24
Speaker 2: I'm just asking the question.
26:25
Speaker 3: Don't laugh.
26:26
Speaker 2: Like, the whole country.
26:27
Speaker 1: And by the way, my colleagues across the aisle— What
26:30
Speaker 1: is that based on?
26:30
Speaker 3: What evidence would you.
26:31
Speaker 1: Have that an order like that has ever been given?
26:32
Speaker 1: It is based on Donald Trump.
26:33
Speaker 5: Giving that order to your predecessor, to a Republican secretary
26:38
Speaker 5: of defense, who I give a lot of credit to
26:40
Speaker 5: because he didn't accept the order.
26:42
Speaker 1: He had more guts and balls than you.
26:44
Speaker 6: If the court says this deployment of troops into our
26:48
Speaker 6: cities is not legal, would you follow that court's order?
26:53
Speaker 3: It's pending in the courts, Senator.
26:55
Speaker 4: Well, when the court decides, would you follow the court's order, decision?
27:00
Speaker 3: I don't believe district courts should be determining national security policy.
27:03
Speaker 5: So you will not be following that? When it goes
27:05
Speaker 5: to the Supreme.
27:06
Speaker 1: Court, we'll see. How about Alyssa Slotkin saying you don't
27:10
Speaker 1: have the balls?
27:12
Speaker 2: Love it. Good job, Alyssa Slotkin. That's the energy we
27:14
Speaker 2: need in these hearings.
27:15
Speaker 1: That is the energy we need. So what do you think?
27:17
Speaker 1: Right guy for this hearing? right guy for the job
27:20
Speaker 1: at this moment.
27:20
Speaker 7: Yeah.
27:20
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like it, like, you know, as we said, uh,
27:24
Speaker 2: anyone could have predicted this would be, this is where
27:26
Speaker 2: this would end up. It's actually, I would say gone
27:28
Speaker 2: worse than I thought.
27:30
Speaker 1: And we're just saying, it's like, you know, we can
27:33
Speaker 1: laugh at it because he's a bozo. But, um, I
27:35
Speaker 1: think what, uh, Slotkin and Hirono just demonstrated there is
27:40
Speaker 1: if he gets an illegal order, if he gets an
27:42
Speaker 1: order to fire on people, he's going to do it
27:44
Speaker 1: because he's loyal to Donald Trump above all else. Right.
27:47
Speaker 2: So, It's just, there is something just, it's noteworthy that
27:52
Speaker 2: in this administration with this president, now Pete Hex is
27:55
Speaker 2: not super quick on his feet, so there would have
27:56
Speaker 2: been a better way to do this, but he felt
27:59
Speaker 2: like to say he had not been given an order
28:03
Speaker 2: or would not follow an order to shoot civilians would be,
28:07
Speaker 2: would somehow be disloyal to Trump or that he would
28:11
Speaker 2: not send troops into US cities against the court order to,
28:16
Speaker 2: to suggest that you would follow the court order would
28:18
Speaker 2: be disloyalty to Trump. And that is a very scary,
28:22
Speaker 2: scary thing about this administration. And when you have people
28:25
Speaker 2: like Hegsath who are weak and thirsty now to get
28:29
Speaker 2: back in the inner circle, do we really think he's
28:33
Speaker 2: going to make a stand on principle against some of
28:36
Speaker 2: these things? Of course not.
28:38
Speaker 3: No, no, he's not.
28:40
Speaker 1: Just so everyone's aware, the US military is still deployed
28:42
Speaker 1: here on the streets of Los Angeles. Even though there
28:45
Speaker 1: haven't been protests or arrests for days, the curfew has
28:49
Speaker 1: been lifted. But actually another 2,000 National Guard troops have
28:54
Speaker 1: been deployed to Los Angeles. So we have a total
28:56
Speaker 1: of 4,800 troops roaming around here. I don't actually even
29:00
Speaker 1: know what they're doing at this point. I guess, though,
29:03
Speaker 1: as we saw last week, the point of the deployment
29:06
Speaker 1: was never just to keep the peace. It was to
29:07
Speaker 1: help support masked ICE agents as they conduct massive immigration
29:11
Speaker 1: raids all over the city and the county. which they
29:14
Speaker 1: are very much still doing. Last episode, we mentioned Trump's
29:17
Speaker 1: decision to pause immigration raids in the agricultural and hospitality sectors.
29:23
Speaker 1: He posted about this on Truth Social, and then there
29:25
Speaker 1: was a report about an actual memo at DHS with
29:29
Speaker 1: new guidance on this. And this was likely because, you know,
29:32
Speaker 1: politicians and business leaders in red states complained to Donald
29:37
Speaker 1: Trump that they depend on these workers. our economy depends
29:41
Speaker 1: on these workers and Trump's like some of them are
29:43
Speaker 1: just great people who've been here and we got to
29:45
Speaker 1: protect them and all that bullshit well that lasted all
29:49
Speaker 1: of four days the Department of Homeland Security told staff
29:52
Speaker 1: it was reversing the decision a couple days ago and
29:56
Speaker 1: that they should continue raids anywhere they want and that
29:59
Speaker 1: they should arrest anyone they want, even immigrants who are
30:02
Speaker 1: following the law and may have legal status. So that
30:05
Speaker 1: is continuing. One of those immigrants was arrested in New
30:09
Speaker 1: York City this week as he showed up at immigration
30:11
Speaker 1: court for a routine hearing, just like he was supposed to.
30:15
Speaker 1: This has been happening a lot, but what made this
30:16
Speaker 1: situation unique is that the man had been accompanied to
30:20
Speaker 1: his hearing by New York City controller and Democratic mayoral
30:24
Speaker 1: candidate Brad Lander, who's been showing up at court a
30:28
Speaker 1: few times now, to help immigrants navigate the legal system,
30:32
Speaker 1: to escort them. Volunteers have been doing this as well.
30:35
Speaker 1: So Brad Lander was acting as one of these volunteers.
30:38
Speaker 1: Lander had his hand on the man's shoulder, said he
30:40
Speaker 1: wouldn't let go until the ICE agents produced a warrant.
30:44
Speaker 1: Instead of producing a warrant or instead of saying to Lander, sir, sorry,
30:49
Speaker 1: we're taking him away. We have the authority to do this, whatever.
30:52
Speaker 1: They handcuffed Lander. They handcuffed him and detained him. And
30:57
Speaker 1: he was thrown against the wall. And he was detained
30:59
Speaker 1: in the building until New York Governor Kathy Hochul had
31:04
Speaker 1: to show up and wait for a couple hours to
31:07
Speaker 1: demand his release. So federal prosecutors say they're investigating what happened,
31:11
Speaker 1: but haven't said whether they will file charges. And you
31:15
Speaker 1: can check out Lovett interviewed Lander for YouTube just a
31:19
Speaker 1: couple days ago. So you can check that out on
31:20
Speaker 1: the Pod Save America YouTube channel. What do you make
31:22
Speaker 1: of all this, Dan?
31:25
Speaker 2: Let's start with the Lander situation, which is... is that
31:29
Speaker 2: ICE is out of control, right? Trump is given that
31:33
Speaker 2: Trump and Stephen Miller and Christina have given them the
31:34
Speaker 2: mandate to do whatever they want. And they are not
31:37
Speaker 2: in uniform in many cases. They are wearing masks. We
31:40
Speaker 2: don't know who they are. They are not adhering to
31:43
Speaker 2: any sort of standard protocol. They are trying to escalate,
31:46
Speaker 2: not deescalate situations like this. Like in a normal world,
31:50
Speaker 2: you do not want to arrest the second highest ranking
31:54
Speaker 2: official in New York City. It's bad business. And so
31:59
Speaker 2: you find ways not to do that. But they are
32:03
Speaker 2: now doing the opposite of that because that is the
32:05
Speaker 2: kind of conduct that is applauded. This is coming from
32:07
Speaker 2: the top. This is what they have been given. And
32:12
Speaker 2: impossible to meet quotas from Stephen Miller and Kristi Noem
32:15
Speaker 2: and Trump. They are doing it. The kind of conduct
32:18
Speaker 2: that is now celebrated by their bosses is doing things
32:21
Speaker 2: like detaining an elected official in New York for essentially
32:26
Speaker 2: no reason. for handcuffing Senator Padilla. And you're seeing this
32:31
Speaker 2: play out everywhere. Just today, ICE was trying to enter
32:34
Speaker 2: Dodger Stadium. It had to be stopped by the Dodgers
32:36
Speaker 2: for reasons no one can really tell why they were
32:38
Speaker 2: trying to do it other than just to harass people.
32:40
Speaker 1: The Department of Homeland Security said, well, there were a
32:43
Speaker 1: couple of ICE vehicles, CBP vehicles, Custom and Border Patrol
32:46
Speaker 1: vehicles there, but they didn't have to do with any
32:49
Speaker 1: enforcement operations. And so they were there but they didn't
32:52
Speaker 1: really try to get in. And then ICE tweeted, we
32:54
Speaker 1: were never there. This is just a total lie. So
32:57
Speaker 1: they're all fucking bullshit, lying again, because that's all they
32:59
Speaker 1: do is lie at DHS, which is great because it's
33:01
Speaker 1: the Department of Homeland Security. So you really don't need
33:04
Speaker 1: them to be trusted.
33:05
Speaker 2: No, not at all.
33:06
Speaker 1: Not at all. Yeah, you don't need to trust what
33:08
Speaker 1: they say when something goes wrong. But yeah, so the
33:10
Speaker 1: Dodgers told them, no, you can't come in. You can't
33:12
Speaker 1: come into the stadium.
33:14
Speaker 2: And then, so now let's talk about the rapid flip-flop
33:19
Speaker 2: on enforcement priorities. I think a couple of things probably
33:22
Speaker 2: went on here. One, Stephen Miller mostly runs the government.
33:26
Speaker 7: Yeah.
33:26
Speaker 2: He is everyone's boss other than maybe Trump's and maybe
33:28
Speaker 2: even Trump's on some occasions. And Trump, he doesn't know
33:33
Speaker 2: the issues enough to make an actual well-reasoned decision. So
33:39
Speaker 2: a bunch of farm work, he talks to the Secretary
33:40
Speaker 2: of Agriculture, a bunch of business people call, they're complaining
33:43
Speaker 2: about how this is going to destroy the economy. He
33:44
Speaker 2: changes the policy. Stephen Miller gets to him, says, by
33:48
Speaker 2: doing this, you're allowing MS-13 to work in hotels. And
33:52
Speaker 2: so he changes his policy back. And it's like, this
33:55
Speaker 2: is a process that makes no sense with a president
33:57
Speaker 2: who doesn't really know what he's doing. But I think
34:00
Speaker 2: his natural, and I think it's possible, and I don't,
34:02
Speaker 2: this is just my guessing here, that he could take,
34:06
Speaker 2: because the decision to back away from hotels, farms, restaurants,
34:11
Speaker 2: et cetera, was met by blowback in the MAGA base.
34:14
Speaker 2: So he could take blowback in the MAGA base on immigration,
34:17
Speaker 2: or he could take blowback in the MAGA base on Iran,
34:20
Speaker 2: but he maybe thought he couldn't take blowback on both.
34:23
Speaker 2: And so he reversed on immigration.
34:26
Speaker 1: I don't know if you caught, Governor Newsom tweeted the
34:30
Speaker 1: story about the reversal on the agricultural and hospitality sector raids.
34:37
Speaker 1: And he has a new acrostic, MAGA, Miller Actually Governs America.
34:42
Speaker 7: Yeah.
34:42
Speaker 2: That's pretty good.
34:43
Speaker 1: Like, not too bad.
34:44
Speaker 2: That's pretty good.
34:45
Speaker 1: Not too bad. I do think that's what's going on.
34:46
Speaker 1: I also think that both of these things, the arrests
34:50
Speaker 1: or handcuffing Lander and Padilla and other Democratic officials and
34:55
Speaker 1: the raids, I do think they're connected. And I do
34:57
Speaker 1: think it's a Stephen Miller thing. He wants the confrontation.
35:00
Speaker 1: There is a, again, there is a way to do
35:03
Speaker 1: immigration enforcement, even really tough immigration enforcement that you or
35:07
Speaker 1: I may not agree with, right? Which is like, you
35:10
Speaker 1: can You know, you can go after people who either
35:13
Speaker 1: have criminal records or recent arrivals. And again, you don't
35:17
Speaker 1: have to get into these confrontations with politicians, with elected officials.
35:22
Speaker 1: ICE just released new guidance that now says that members
35:26
Speaker 1: of Congress can't conduct oversight on ICE facilities, even though
35:30
Speaker 1: that's the federal law. Or they can, but like ICE
35:33
Speaker 1: can just, you know, basically turn them down or cancel
35:36
Speaker 1: their visits whenever they'd like for no reason. So they
35:39
Speaker 1: want the confrontation with local officials. Tom Homan, the immigration czar,
35:43
Speaker 1: has been saying this. Stephen Miller clearly wants a confrontation
35:46
Speaker 1: with these officials. Kristi Noem, before the moment where Alex
35:50
Speaker 1: Padilla was handcuffed, was talking about how DHS was going
35:53
Speaker 1: to liberate Los Angeles from Karen Bass and Gavin Newsom.
35:58
Speaker 1: Liberate us from our elected leaders who we elected. So
36:01
Speaker 1: they want these confrontations with officials.
36:03
Speaker 2: It's insane.
36:03
Speaker 1: And just so people will know what's happening in the
36:06
Speaker 1: immigration court. So- You get a notice to appear in
36:09
Speaker 1: immigration court if you are here with legal status or
36:12
Speaker 1: without legal status, but you're appealing it, right? So maybe
36:14
Speaker 1: you're waiting for your asylum hearing. Maybe you lost your
36:18
Speaker 1: legal status and you overstayed your visa, but you're appealing.
36:21
Speaker 1: And so you go to immigration court and usually your
36:24
Speaker 1: case gets adjudicated and then either you get deported or
36:27
Speaker 1: you are allowed legal status and that's that. What they're
36:29
Speaker 1: doing now is they're having the prosecutors who work for
36:32
Speaker 1: the government go to these hearings and say, actually, we're
36:35
Speaker 1: dismissing all the charges. which sounds good at first, but
36:38
Speaker 1: what really is happening there is you lose all legal
36:41
Speaker 1: protections once the charges are dismissed. And then as they
36:44
Speaker 1: walk out of court, they have the masked, often masked
36:48
Speaker 1: plainclothes federal agents there to haul you away and get
36:51
Speaker 1: you into expedited removal, which means you get deported quickly.
36:54
Speaker 1: So immigration activists have been sending volunteers to these courts
36:59
Speaker 1: to help escort people out of the building. And they've said,
37:03
Speaker 1: as they train these volunteers, do not engage or impede
37:06
Speaker 1: the work of these officers if they do grab someone.
37:09
Speaker 1: But sometimes if you're walking out with people, if you're
37:11
Speaker 1: escorting a family, then they don't get taken or they,
37:15
Speaker 1: you know, they just go out of the other elevator, right?
37:17
Speaker 1: Or they get to go live their lives and have
37:19
Speaker 1: their case heard, which is what usually happens. So Brad
37:21
Speaker 1: Lander has been doing that. And then, you know, people
37:23
Speaker 1: are saying, oh, it's a stunt. It was a stunt.
37:25
Speaker 1: It was a stunt. Well, I think it was like,
37:26
Speaker 1: I think he said it to love it. It was
37:28
Speaker 1: the seventh time he's done this. And he's usually been
37:31
Speaker 1: doing it very quietly. It didn't get a lot of coverage.
37:33
Speaker 1: So he's just been doing this as a volunteer because
37:35
Speaker 1: he's a good person who does this. And as he
37:38
Speaker 1: was escorting someone out, this is what happened. And again,
37:41
Speaker 1: there's a million ways they could have dealt with this
37:43
Speaker 1: that did not end in Brad Lander getting arrested. Same
37:45
Speaker 1: thing with telling Padilla, please don't interrupt the secretary. You
37:50
Speaker 1: can talk to her afterwards. They could have done that
37:51
Speaker 1: with Padilla. They just they don't want to de-escalate because
37:54
Speaker 1: they want the confrontations with cops. And Stephen Miller wants
37:57
Speaker 1: ICE agents to be arresting anyone they want, even without
38:00
Speaker 1: a warrant, even if the person has legal status. Like
38:03
Speaker 1: that is the situation we're in right now.
38:04
Speaker 2: Brad Lander is running for mayor. He's a politician, right?
38:08
Speaker 2: Obviously there is some measure of politics in this, but
38:10
Speaker 2: I've seen politicians try to do stunts and that's not
38:13
Speaker 2: what he did there. He could have for, he was
38:15
Speaker 2: not trying to have a confrontation with ICE. He could
38:18
Speaker 2: have pushed it in a way it's like, if his
38:20
Speaker 2: goal was to get arrested, he would have done something
38:23
Speaker 2: very different than what he actually did.
38:25
Speaker 8: Yep.
38:26
Speaker 1: Also people are making this point this week, like the
38:29
Speaker 1: masks thing. And, you know, and they're like, oh, well,
38:32
Speaker 1: attacks and harassment on ICE officers are up 500 percent.
38:35
Speaker 1: And then, you know, you ask DHS about it and
38:38
Speaker 1: they don't provide any evidence for that whatsoever. But so
38:41
Speaker 1: you have plainclothes agents with masks, with guns, sometimes in
38:46
Speaker 1: unmarked vehicles. What are people supposed to do? Like when
38:50
Speaker 1: someone just grabs you now or grab someone that you're with,
38:53
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to demand a warrant. You're not supposed
38:55
Speaker 1: to try to stop it. What if it's just some
38:57
Speaker 1: bad guy What if it's just some criminal who's just
39:01
Speaker 1: going to say that they're from ICE and grab you? Now,
39:04
Speaker 1: that's the country we're living in now, where anyone can
39:06
Speaker 1: just be rounded up and grabbed off the street, and
39:08
Speaker 1: now you're not supposed to say anything and not supposed
39:10
Speaker 1: to resist and not supposed to ask for a fucking
39:12
Speaker 1: warrant because it's ICE? I mean, it's absurd.
39:15
Speaker 2: It's out of control. Out of control.
39:18
Speaker 1: Out of control. Okay, there's been lots of economic news
39:20
Speaker 1: this week. Not all of it was great. The Fed's
39:23
Speaker 1: latest forecast predicts slower economic growth and higher inflation, which
39:26
Speaker 1: is why they decided to hold interest rates steady again.
39:29
Speaker 1: and white drugs. responded to the announcement by calling Jerome
39:32
Speaker 1: Powell not a smart person and someone who, quote, hates him.
39:36
Speaker 1: Housing starts also hit a five-year low, and according to Bloomberg,
39:39
Speaker 1: Trump's tariffs are set to raise new car prices by
39:42
Speaker 1: nearly $ 2, 000. That's what people voted for. Higher car prices,
39:47
Speaker 1: fewer homes. Higher interest rates. That's what we want. But
39:51
Speaker 1: fear not, Dan. The president and Republicans in Congress are
39:54
Speaker 1: coming to the rescue with a bill that will deliver
39:56
Speaker 1: trillions in relief to the nation's millionaires while taking food
40:00
Speaker 1: and health care away from working and middle class families.
40:03
Speaker 1: Congress's own independent scorekeeper, the CBO, says Trump's. See, you know,
40:09
Speaker 1: I love it. They say that Trump's We're All Gonna
40:12
Speaker 1: Die Act. That's Joni Ernst. Thank you, Joni Ernst, for
40:15
Speaker 1: the name for the bill. will make the bottom 30%
40:18
Speaker 1: of American households poorer while exploding the deficit by almost
40:22
Speaker 1: $ 3 trillion over the next decade. And yet somehow, the
40:27
Speaker 1: Senate is making the House bill even worse by making
40:30
Speaker 1: deeper cuts to Medicaid. Dan, what is going on here?
40:34
Speaker 1: What happened to the Medicaid moderates? I thought the Senate
40:36
Speaker 1: was supposed to maybe make the bill a little bit better.
40:37
Speaker 1: They're making it worse. You know, I know that Josh
40:40
Speaker 1: Hawley and Susan Collins are trying to work something out
40:42
Speaker 1: to help rural hospitals because rural hospitals... could now start
40:45
Speaker 1: closing down under the new Medicaid cuts. And so now
40:48
Speaker 1: they're trying to like develop a fund to help the
40:51
Speaker 1: rural hospitals who were hurt because of their legislation to
40:55
Speaker 1: cut the funding to rural hospitals. What the fuck? It is.
40:58
Speaker 2: I mean, it's... I would say I am surprised. My
41:01
Speaker 2: assumption was that the House bill would be terrible. The
41:05
Speaker 2: Senate bill would be slightly less terrible, but still terrible.
41:08
Speaker 2: And the Medicaid cuts would be less onerous. And they
41:11
Speaker 2: would meet somewhere in the middle. So you would get a...
41:13
Speaker 2: terrible bill that was somewhat less terrible than the Senate bill,
41:16
Speaker 2: somewhat more terrible than the House bill, and that's where
41:18
Speaker 2: it would be if they were to get a.
41:18
Speaker 3: Bill at all.
41:20
Speaker 2: But the Senate instead decided to do something to cut
41:23
Speaker 2: the Medicaid provider tax, which is going to not just
41:27
Speaker 2: bankrupt rural hospitals, but will cost states over the course
41:30
Speaker 2: of the next several years hundreds of billions of dollars
41:33
Speaker 2: in funding, which means that these states, which states are
41:37
Speaker 2: required to balance their budget, And so if you have
41:40
Speaker 2: a significant budget shortfall because of this tax, this cut
41:43
Speaker 2: in the tax that states can levy on hospitals that
41:45
Speaker 2: provide health care services to Medicaid patients, it means that
41:49
Speaker 2: these states are going to have two choices. They can
41:50
Speaker 2: either cut services or raise taxes. What do we think
41:54
Speaker 2: is actually going to happen there? And what makes this
41:55
Speaker 2: even more devious is they specifically made this worse for
41:58
Speaker 2: the states that expanded Medicaid to include the Affordable Care Act.
42:03
Speaker 2: And so this is a– it's not just– like people
42:06
Speaker 2: are going to lose– rural hospitals will close. And if
42:09
Speaker 2: they come up with some sort of bailout fund for
42:10
Speaker 2: rural hospitals, that will help keep the hospitals open, which
42:13
Speaker 2: would be a good thing. But it's not going to
42:15
Speaker 2: solve the problem of states being forced to cut health
42:20
Speaker 2: care services for Medicaid patients.
42:23
Speaker 5: Yeah.
42:24
Speaker 1: So naturally, Republicans want this monstrosity to become law as
42:27
Speaker 1: fast as possible. White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles
42:30
Speaker 1: is doubling down on Trump's July 4th deadline. Mike Johnson
42:33
Speaker 1: says he's prepared to cancel the House recess to get
42:35
Speaker 1: the job done, which means... The rest of us don't
42:39
Speaker 1: have much time to stop this thing. And that is
42:41
Speaker 1: surely by design, since voters who've heard about the bill
42:45
Speaker 1: mostly don't like it, according to just about every poll
42:47
Speaker 1: out there. But a lot of these polls also show
42:50
Speaker 1: that most voters haven't heard about the bill, or at
42:53
Speaker 1: least a good chunk of voters haven't yet heard about
42:55
Speaker 1: the bill, or they don't know enough about the bill.
42:57
Speaker 1: That's led some liberal commentators to complain that Democrats aren't
43:00
Speaker 1: talking about the bill enough, that we're getting distracted by
43:04
Speaker 1: issues like deportations in Iran and everything else Trump throws
43:07
Speaker 1: at us. I have plenty of thoughts on this, but
43:10
Speaker 1: I'll let you start.
43:11
Speaker 2: Okay, let me start. I was going to let you start,
43:13
Speaker 2: but I know you've been chomping at the bit for
43:16
Speaker 2: this for a very long time.
43:17
Speaker 1: You're going to say something more reasonable about this, which
43:20
Speaker 1: is going to help me be more reasonable. I don't
43:21
Speaker 1: think so. I don't think so.
43:23
Speaker 3: It might.
43:23
Speaker 2: It might. I'm going to try to be more explanatory,
43:25
Speaker 2: and you can be more angry. What we're getting at
43:30
Speaker 2: here is the fundamental paradox of American politics that's been
43:34
Speaker 2: bedeviling Democrats for a while now. which is that all
43:37
Speaker 2: of the polling shows that our best issue, the one
43:40
Speaker 2: that voters care most about, is the economy, specifically inflation,
43:46
Speaker 2: cost of living, the tariffs, tax cuts for billionaires, cuts
43:49
Speaker 2: to Medicaid, those sorts of things. But at the same time,
43:54
Speaker 2: those issues in this media environment are like a tree
43:57
Speaker 2: falling in the forest. They do not drive attention. They
44:00
Speaker 2: do not drive the conversation. I've had stuck in my
44:04
Speaker 2: head for months now this report from one of the
44:07
Speaker 2: super PACs that tests how effective messages are and also
44:11
Speaker 2: tracks content online to see what's resonating. And they basically
44:15
Speaker 2: wrote essentially that a message about cutting Medicaid to pay
44:20
Speaker 2: for tax cuts for the wealthy is one of the
44:22
Speaker 2: most effective messages we've ever tested. It's in like the 99.9th
44:26
Speaker 2: percentile of persuasiveness. But only 5% of all of the
44:31
Speaker 2: political content online was about Medicaid tax cuts in the budget.
44:37
Speaker 2: And so we have this problem that the thing that
44:39
Speaker 2: helps us the most does not drive attention, does not
44:43
Speaker 2: get coverage. And I don't mean coverage like it's going
44:45
Speaker 2: to be on CNN or the New York Times, because
44:46
Speaker 2: you're going to be able to find plenty of CNN
44:48
Speaker 2: and New York Times stories that are about this. There
44:51
Speaker 2: are people who cover this every day. It just doesn't
44:54
Speaker 2: break through. And so Democrats in that world have two choices.
44:58
Speaker 2: We can either find a way to talk about this
45:02
Speaker 2: bill and the economy and the tariffs in a way
45:05
Speaker 2: that breaks through to the people who only pay a
45:08
Speaker 2: little bit of attention to the news and politics. Or
45:11
Speaker 2: we can find a way to win on the issues
45:13
Speaker 2: that do get attention, that do drive conversation. And those issues,
45:17
Speaker 2: unfortunately for us, are the ones that have historically been
45:19
Speaker 2: less good for us. They are issues around culture and identity.
45:23
Speaker 2: It is immigration. It is LGBTQ plus rights. It is democracy, crime,
45:29
Speaker 2: those sorts of things. And so the reason why we
45:35
Speaker 2: have to make that choice there is what Democrats are
45:36
Speaker 2: doing right now, too many, not all of them, but
45:39
Speaker 2: many of them are doing is we're ignoring the thing
45:41
Speaker 2: that's getting all the attention to say things that get
45:44
Speaker 2: no attention. So what we appear to most people, it's
45:47
Speaker 2: not like people focus on the economy. We're just silent
45:50
Speaker 2: because they're not hearing what we're saying because we have
45:51
Speaker 2: not figured out a way to get people to hear
45:54
Speaker 2: our message on the economy on this budget bill.
45:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's, It's even trickier, right? Like
46:01
Speaker 1: you have to start with what is the goal here, right?
46:03
Speaker 1: If the goal is to make the bill so unpopular
46:05
Speaker 1: that Republicans in competitive districts and purple states in the
46:09
Speaker 1: Senate feel pressure to vote against it, guess what? It
46:13
Speaker 1: is unpopular, right? And either they feel the pressure or
46:16
Speaker 1: they don't, we don't know yet. If the goal is
46:18
Speaker 1: to make it even more unpopular than that by reaching
46:21
Speaker 1: people who are unaware of the bill, a big reason
46:25
Speaker 1: that's difficult is everything you just said is true. But additionally,
46:29
Speaker 1: You mentioned this, like the very people we're trying to
46:32
Speaker 1: reach are the people who don't pay much attention to
46:35
Speaker 1: the news. They don't follow the news closely. They are
46:38
Speaker 1: not on Blue Sky. They are not on Twitter. So
46:42
Speaker 1: more tweets from us don't matter. They're not watching cable news.
46:45
Speaker 1: So the random Democrats doing a press conference is not
46:49
Speaker 1: going to matter. They might be watching local news, reading
46:52
Speaker 1: local newspapers if they still have them where they live.
46:56
Speaker 1: So yeah, like you could do events at a rural
46:58
Speaker 1: hospital or you do local events and maybe get some
47:01
Speaker 1: coverage there to the extent there is coverage. But trying
47:05
Speaker 1: to shape the national political debate is trying to shape
47:08
Speaker 1: a debate that's being followed by people who've overwhelmingly made
47:11
Speaker 1: up their minds. And this is like a real challenge
47:15
Speaker 1: because there's all these people like, oh, it's not getting
47:17
Speaker 1: enough coverage. But like the coverage, the political coverage that
47:20
Speaker 1: exists is political coverage for people who are mostly partisans
47:25
Speaker 1: who've made up their minds, right? Like we, this is
47:27
Speaker 1: what we, this is, this is the problem we had
47:29
Speaker 1: in the last election where Kamala Harris won by a
47:32
Speaker 1: large margin, all the people who follow the news closely
47:36
Speaker 1: and Donald Trump won by a little bit among people
47:39
Speaker 1: who get their news mostly from social media. And then
47:41
Speaker 1: he won by a lot more among people who don't
47:43
Speaker 1: follow the news at all. So like, it's, it's a
47:46
Speaker 1: bigger problem. I guess why I got frustrated about it
47:48
Speaker 1: is there is this belief among people who are very
47:52
Speaker 1: in the data and, you know, it's democratic pollsters and
47:55
Speaker 1: strategists and, and, and all those folks, many of them
47:58
Speaker 1: are friends. And they're like, you know, everyone's talking about
48:01
Speaker 1: the immigration stuff or Trump or this. And what we
48:03
Speaker 1: got to do is just talk more about Medicaid, but
48:05
Speaker 1: us talking more about Medicaid. We talk about in this podcast,
48:07
Speaker 1: we talk about everywhere. We're just talking to each other.
48:10
Speaker 1: We're all talking to each other. And like the larger
48:13
Speaker 1: challenge for us is to break out of the bubble
48:15
Speaker 1: and of all of us who pay close attention to
48:18
Speaker 1: the news and reach people that way. And again, there's
48:21
Speaker 1: two goals here. There's one trying to stop the bill
48:24
Speaker 1: or at least make the bill better before it passes.
48:27
Speaker 1: And then there's another goal we can talk about, which
48:29
Speaker 1: is if it does pass because Republicans are like, whatever,
48:31
Speaker 1: I don't care that it's unpopular. I'm just going to
48:33
Speaker 1: do it anyway because Donald Trump told me to. Then
48:35
Speaker 1: it's a question of, can we hang this law around
48:38
Speaker 1: their necks in the midterms, right? And a very, very
48:41
Speaker 1: unpopular bill that then they have to run on and
48:43
Speaker 1: we can make the midterms about it. And that is
48:45
Speaker 1: a different story because then You get more people paying attention.
48:48
Speaker 1: There's a whole campaign that we can run about this
48:51
Speaker 1: law that they voted for. So that's a whole different story.
48:54
Speaker 1: And I think that maybe is a little bit easier
48:56
Speaker 1: to get people to care about. But right now, I
48:59
Speaker 1: just don't know what else... I don't know what creative
49:01
Speaker 1: ways to talk about this bill are going to break
49:03
Speaker 1: through to people who don't really follow the news anyway.
49:06
Speaker 2: I don't have the right answer. I don't think anyone does.
49:08
Speaker 2: Because if there are a lot of smart people thinking
49:09
Speaker 2: about it, if they did, we would do that. A
49:13
Speaker 2: couple of points where I... just differ a little bit,
49:16
Speaker 2: I think, which is it starts as a conversation amongst ourselves.
49:21
Speaker 2: It always does. But things can reach escape velocity where
49:24
Speaker 2: they break out of the political news bubble to reach
49:27
Speaker 2: everyone else. That happened with tariffs around Liberation Day. All
49:31
Speaker 2: the polling shows that that's why Donald Trump's numbers dipped then.
49:34
Speaker 2: Some of the immigration stuff has broken out of the bubble.
49:37
Speaker 2: And breaking out of the bubble means that it becomes
49:40
Speaker 2: conversation online in a way that are not just on
49:43
Speaker 2: news sites, right? That people are talking about on TikTok,
49:46
Speaker 2: on Instagram. It's showing up in your family group chats
49:48
Speaker 2: where you're going places where people normally talk about politics
49:50
Speaker 2: and they're bringing this up. There were moments during the
49:52
Speaker 2: campaign where that happened a lot, you know, with Trump's assassination,
49:57
Speaker 2: they're eating the cats and the dogs. You know, there
49:59
Speaker 2: were moments that would break out. And so the goal
50:01
Speaker 2: is like, how do you get those moments to break
50:03
Speaker 2: out on issues that you care about? The danger here is,
50:09
Speaker 2: If people don't care about it when it passes, if
50:11
Speaker 2: there's not drama on it when it passes, and it
50:14
Speaker 2: doesn't get people, then there's no context for when we're
50:16
Speaker 2: making the argument to these people next year. One of
50:19
Speaker 2: the reasons why Republican efforts to repeal the Affordable Care
50:23
Speaker 2: Act were so damaging to Republicans in 2018 was at
50:25
Speaker 2: the moment of John McCain putting his thumb down was
50:28
Speaker 2: a moment that broke through. Now, very different media environment,
50:30
Speaker 2: much easier to break out that many years ago, but
50:32
Speaker 2: that was a moment that broke through. So everyone knew
50:34
Speaker 2: Republicans tried to do that. When you go to people
50:37
Speaker 2: and they don't trust politicians, they don't trust political ads,
50:39
Speaker 2: they don't trust the media, and you tell them that
50:41
Speaker 2: Republicans did this terrible thing of which they are not
50:43
Speaker 2: feeling the impact of yet, they're less likely to believe
50:46
Speaker 2: you if they weren't paying attention when it happened. And
50:49
Speaker 2: so that is why people are trying so hard to
50:50
Speaker 2: get people to pay attention. There's not an easy answer
50:52
Speaker 2: to do that.
50:54
Speaker 3: Yeah.
50:54
Speaker 1: No, I agree with all of that. I think it
50:57
Speaker 1: also sort of proves my point because John McCain, getting
51:02
Speaker 1: all that attention for what he did, That did not
51:05
Speaker 1: necessarily happen because Democrats figured out a way to break
51:08
Speaker 1: through with the message on the Affordable Care Act. Now,
51:12
Speaker 1: one thing that did break through was Adi Barkan being
51:15
Speaker 1: on that plane with Jeff Flake. And, you know, this
51:20
Speaker 1: was the tax bill. But, like, there was a movement
51:24
Speaker 1: where people were, you know, conducting sit-ins in Congress. And
51:27
Speaker 1: there was a big groundswell. It was not getting a
51:29
Speaker 1: ton of coverage. But did it? eventually impact John McCain's vote? Yeah, possibly.
51:35
Speaker 1: But you need a moment, right? Which is why I
51:37
Speaker 1: think like the reason that immigration gets covered, the reason
51:40
Speaker 1: that Liberation Day got covered is because there was a
51:42
Speaker 1: moment it was announced and the stock market crashed, right?
51:45
Speaker 1: And so that's something that's going to break through. The
51:47
Speaker 1: reason some of the ICE stuff and the immigration stuff
51:49
Speaker 1: has break through is because there's these moments that are
51:51
Speaker 1: caught on video, right? As Congress is debating this bill,
51:54
Speaker 1: there's not these big moments, like a CBO fucking score
51:57
Speaker 1: is not going to break through, right? Now, You're right
52:00
Speaker 1: that as we get closer to the vote, then I
52:02
Speaker 1: think there's much more potential for a big moment to
52:06
Speaker 1: galvanize people around. It's just really hard to do right
52:09
Speaker 1: now while Congress is just in the sausage-making process.
52:12
Speaker 2: You also just need... You build up to the moment, right?
52:15
Speaker 2: You don't know what the moment's going to be. So
52:16
Speaker 2: you can't just sit around and try to come up
52:19
Speaker 2: with what your slot machine pull is that's going to work.
52:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
52:23
Speaker 2: What led up to the moment with Adi Barkin was...
52:27
Speaker 2: a ton of protests, sit-ins, people blocked the office, the
52:31
Speaker 2: congressional office shutting down. There was a demonstration of real
52:36
Speaker 2: public opposition to getting rid of the Affordable Care Act.
52:38
Speaker 3: Yep.
52:40
Speaker 2: There was real demonstration to opposition to Doge, right, with
52:45
Speaker 2: the hands-off rallies in April. I went to a No
52:48
Speaker 2: Kings protest. I took my kids. It was an incredible experience.
52:52
Speaker 2: I felt like as inspired as I felt in a
52:54
Speaker 2: very long time. If those protests had been about Medicaid,
52:59
Speaker 2: or taking people off their healthcare, or taking food out
53:01
Speaker 2: of people's mouths, that would have created... You don't have
53:04
Speaker 2: to raise awareness to a certain point where you can
53:06
Speaker 2: then have that moment. And so what we have to
53:08
Speaker 2: be doing right now is trying... How do you start
53:09
Speaker 2: to create some context for it to do it?
53:12
Speaker 1: But it's timing too, right? I think if those protests
53:16
Speaker 1: were about Medicaid cuts, and then we're stuck with another two, three,
53:20
Speaker 1: four weeks until the bill passes, then I don't think
53:22
Speaker 1: it matters as much. Like, I do think there should
53:25
Speaker 1: maybe be protests like the weekend before they're going to vote, right? Now,
53:27
Speaker 1: it's harder to schedule these things, like you said, around
53:30
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55:16
Speaker 7: All right.
55:16
Speaker 1: Last thing before we get to Tommy's conversation with Eric Swalwell.
55:20
Speaker 1: We talked the other day about how the infighting at
55:22
Speaker 1: the DNC had spilled into the open with that leaked
55:26
Speaker 1: audio of chairman, DNC chairman Ken Martin, saying that Vice
55:29
Speaker 1: Chairman David Hogg's initiative to primary sitting Democrats was making
55:33
Speaker 1: Martin's job impossible. David Hogg has since left the DNC
55:37
Speaker 1: and now knives are out for Martin himself. Here's the
55:40
Speaker 1: New York Times headline. The DNC is in chaos and
55:43
Speaker 1: desperate for cash. And here's Politico. Weak, whiny, and invisible
55:47
Speaker 1: critics of DNC chair Ken Martin savage his tenure. Yeesh.
55:52
Speaker 1: The pieces detail how the committee is facing a serious
55:54
Speaker 1: cash shortfall and that big donors are pissed that they
55:57
Speaker 1: haven't heard more from Martin. A couple questions for you.
56:01
Speaker 1: How normal or not normal is this level of dysfunction
56:04
Speaker 1: and how much does it matter?
56:07
Speaker 2: It is definitely not normal, right? There is always a
56:11
Speaker 2: race for the DNC chair. Usually that race has some
56:13
Speaker 2: level of division in it. It's often... an establishment insider
56:18
Speaker 2: against usually a more progressive outsider. Everyone comes together at
56:21
Speaker 2: the end. I remember Keith Ellison then took a role
56:24
Speaker 2: with the DNC after Tom Perez won in 2017. This
56:29
Speaker 2: was an interesting, a unique race in the sense that
56:32
Speaker 2: it was two insiders in a nasty battle against each other.
56:38
Speaker 2: Ken Martin ran a pretty tough race. He accused our
56:40
Speaker 2: friend Ben Wickler of being in the pocket of billionaires
56:43
Speaker 2: like Alex Soros and Reid Hoffman, two people who are,
56:46
Speaker 2: I imagine, huge financial supporters of the DNC. And it's
56:50
Speaker 2: not usual for you to have a– you have to
56:53
Speaker 2: have repeated vice chair elections. It's not usual for two
56:57
Speaker 2: really like longstanding, powerful, prominent Democrats like union leaders Randy
57:01
Speaker 2: Weingarten and Lee Saunders to resign from the DNC and protest.
57:04
Speaker 9: Oh.
57:05
Speaker 1: I forgot to mention that part. Yeah, that's a big one.
57:07
Speaker 2: So that is like, it is very unusual. The DNC
57:10
Speaker 2: is having trouble raising money. Their off year is never great,
57:13
Speaker 2: but you would imagine there would be some desire to
57:17
Speaker 2: defeat Trump, right? People are coming in and do that.
57:19
Speaker 2: And that has not happened. The fact that these senators
57:22
Speaker 2: have not heard from Ken Martin is very concerning. So
57:25
Speaker 2: this is all not great, is what I'd say.
57:29
Speaker 1: Few things. People, I think, expect too much of the DNC.
57:33
Speaker 2: Oh yes, 100%.
57:34
Speaker 1: And that's just natural, right? You think of like the
57:36
Speaker 1: Democratic Party and you think of the DNC. DNC raises
57:39
Speaker 1: a bunch of money, comes up with the primary calendar
57:42
Speaker 1: and puts on the convention, right? And people think that
57:44
Speaker 1: it like sort of controls the universe and it really doesn't.
57:47
Speaker 1: So you got to keep expectations low in the first instance.
57:51
Speaker 1: But we just suffered a horrific loss against Donald fucking Trump.
57:57
Speaker 1: And so obviously, views of the party are going to
58:00
Speaker 1: be like at their lowest right now. And one of
58:03
Speaker 1: the reasons, and again, we, you know, we interviewed Ken
58:06
Speaker 1: Martin and Ben Wickler's our friend, obviously. And I was
58:10
Speaker 1: impressed with Ken Martin. I think by all accounts, even
58:13
Speaker 1: in these stories, people say he's like a very hard worker.
58:16
Speaker 1: He's very good at internal politics or, you know, sort
58:20
Speaker 1: of like the nuts and bolts operational stuff. He's really
58:22
Speaker 1: good because he's been doing this in Minnesota forever. And
58:25
Speaker 1: so that's all great. One of the reasons, aside from
58:28
Speaker 1: the fact that just we've known him forever, but one
58:30
Speaker 1: of the reasons I've always been so impressed with Ben
58:31
Speaker 1: Wickler is he is a very effective, creative communicator. And
58:38
Speaker 1: this is not to just pick on Ken Martin, but
58:40
Speaker 1: I think the party writ large is just in need
58:44
Speaker 1: of better communicators. And I think like, yes, there's a
58:47
Speaker 1: whole bunch of duties of the DNC chair and probably
58:51
Speaker 1: going out on TV and being an effective communicator. hasn't
58:55
Speaker 1: traditionally been the most important task. I think in this
58:58
Speaker 1: information age, in this media age, being an excellent communicator
59:03
Speaker 1: who can break through is the task of every Democratic official.
59:09
Speaker 1: And I think that like it's just it's not good
59:12
Speaker 1: enough anymore to be good at one thing or the
59:14
Speaker 1: other thing like everyone needs to be able to carry
59:17
Speaker 1: the message in a way that breaks through to voters
59:20
Speaker 1: and I think that one of the reasons that Ken
59:22
Speaker 1: Martin is having a tough time is because he is
59:25
Speaker 1: not naturally skilled at that you know and that's not
59:28
Speaker 1: part of his skill set.
59:29
Speaker 2: I I think that that is a fair critique of
59:32
Speaker 2: Ken Martin, that he's not a great communicator, and he
59:34
Speaker 2: is not.
59:35
Speaker 1: I don't think he's a bad communicator.
59:39
Speaker 2: He did fine in that interview you did.
59:40
Speaker 3: I thought he was good.
59:41
Speaker 1: Totally fine.
59:42
Speaker 2: I don't think I've seen him do any communicating as
59:46
Speaker 2: a DNC chair, but that's not what these problems are.
59:48
Speaker 2: These problems are different than that. You could have a
59:49
Speaker 2: very well-run DNC that's raising money and talking to donors,
59:53
Speaker 2: and the chair is not a great communicator.
59:56
Speaker 1: You can. You can. But I think in this environment,
59:59
Speaker 1: in this political context, after that election, you know.
1:00:03
Speaker 2: We should have picked that person. But the problems in
1:00:04
Speaker 2: the DNC are much, much bigger than whether Ken Martin
1:00:08
Speaker 2: is going.
1:00:08
Speaker 1: To take them. That is true.
1:00:09
Speaker 2: That is true. I think that's the big point here. Now,
1:00:12
Speaker 2: your second question is, is how much does this matter?
1:00:15
Speaker 2: And it's not great. Like, I'm going to say that.
1:00:17
Speaker 2: But as you point out, everyone thinks the DNC is
1:00:19
Speaker 2: massively powerful. How many people have told us, like, how
1:00:21
Speaker 2: can the DNC not get the Democrats on message? Call
1:00:24
Speaker 2: the DNC. That's not what the DNC does. And in
1:00:26
Speaker 2: the midterms, the DNC plays a very small role in
1:00:30
Speaker 2: terms of the Senate and the House. The midterms are
1:00:33
Speaker 2: largely about the Senate and House Democratic campaign committees. That's
1:00:38
Speaker 2: where most of it happens. But the DNC should be
1:00:41
Speaker 2: building for 2028. The DNC is going to have to
1:00:43
Speaker 2: manage what I expect to be a quite large primary
1:00:47
Speaker 2: with a calendar that is still TBD. There's a lot
1:00:50
Speaker 2: of big decisions that have to be made by the DNC.
1:00:52
Speaker 2: And if it's not run well and not funded well,
1:00:54
Speaker 2: and if the The new nominee who will not be
1:00:57
Speaker 2: an incumbent president comes in and the DNC is in
1:00:59
Speaker 2: debt and doesn't have money. That is a problem because
1:01:02
Speaker 2: the DNC is a very important part of a presidential campaign.
1:01:06
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:01:07
Speaker 1: It's just, you know, what's going to get donors to give?
1:01:10
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, this is a problem bigger than the DNC.
1:01:12
Speaker 2: You talk to anyone in the progressive space right now,
1:01:14
Speaker 2: it's very hard to raise money from big donors. They
1:01:19
Speaker 2: feel burned by what happened in 2020. They're mad at Biden.
1:01:23
Speaker 2: They think the Harris campaign or Future Forward, whoever else
1:01:25
Speaker 2: did not spend their money correctly, a lot of their
1:01:27
Speaker 2: assumptions about how you spend money, like do you give
1:01:30
Speaker 2: it to super PACs to run TV ads? Does organizing
1:01:32
Speaker 2: still work? They still have these questions and they're holding back.
1:01:35
Speaker 2: And that's fine for now, but we are missing opportunities.
1:01:41
Speaker 2: And time is the only non-renewable resource in politics. So
1:01:44
Speaker 2: some of these groups we're going to pin on in
1:01:46
Speaker 2: 2026 are losing time because they don't have money right now.
1:01:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's true.
1:01:50
Speaker 1: Okay, we promised you some fun before we get to
1:01:54
Speaker 1: Tommy's interview with Eric Swalwell. So we want to bring
1:01:56
Speaker 1: in the anti-war MAGA isolationist, newest bestie on the left,
1:02:01
Speaker 1: Tommy Vitor himself. Hey. So earlier in the show, we
1:02:04
Speaker 1: talked about Dave Smith, who's a comedian who was for
1:02:09
Speaker 1: Trump and then on Rogan a lot. And then recently
1:02:14
Speaker 1: this week, he has said not only is he opposing
1:02:17
Speaker 1: Trump's rush to war in Iran, but that Trump should
1:02:21
Speaker 1: be impeached. Then Dave Smith was talking about this on
1:02:24
Speaker 1: his show and played an incredible clip from Ben Shapiro's
1:02:30
Speaker 1: show where Ben Shapiro attacks us and especially you.
1:02:34
Speaker 3: Let's listen.
1:02:35
Speaker 7: The boys over at Pod Save America are siding with
1:02:38
Speaker 7: Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene.
1:02:40
Speaker 5: I have a general rule.
1:02:41
Speaker 7: If the people at Pod Save America are agreeing with
1:02:43
Speaker 7: you on a major foreign policy issue, The designers of
1:02:47
Speaker 7: the JCPOA, you are doing it wrong. Here's Tommy Veeder,
1:02:50
Speaker 7: a former van driver for Barack Obama. Tommy Veeder is
1:02:53
Speaker 7: the biggest idiot in foreign policy. That dude worked with
1:02:56
Speaker 7: Ben Rhodes on the JCPOA to set up an Iranian-dominant
1:03:00
Speaker 7: Middle East that ended with October 7th and wild expansion
1:03:04
Speaker 7: of terror groups all over the region.
1:03:07
Speaker 5: That guy.
1:03:08
Speaker 3: This guy.
1:03:09
Speaker 1: You fucking idiot. Idiot van driver.
1:03:13
Speaker 3: Man. You know, I bet there's some people who don't
1:03:16
Speaker 3: know what it means when these guys call me a
1:03:18
Speaker 3: van driver. It's such a deep cut. In the 2004
1:03:21
Speaker 3: Obama Senate campaign, I was the deputy press secretary. One
1:03:23
Speaker 3: of the things I did was when we went downstate,
1:03:26
Speaker 3: I would drive the press van. And then I worked
1:03:28
Speaker 3: my way up to the NSC spokesman at the White House.
1:03:30
Speaker 3: And they think that's like an insult rather than like
1:03:33
Speaker 3: a cool thing.
1:03:34
Speaker 1: Thing that happened to me look when I first met
1:03:36
Speaker 1: you in 2005 you were introduced to me as a
1:03:40
Speaker 1: van driver so don't try to I still call you
1:03:42
Speaker 1: a van driver polish up your resume now.
1:03:44
Speaker 3: This is my van guy.
1:03:46
Speaker 1: So weird so Dave Smith plays this clip of Ben
1:03:51
Speaker 1: Shapiro attacking you mainly and then and then he defended
1:03:56
Speaker 1: you know you and us and called Ben Shapiro a
1:03:59
Speaker 1: big idiot.
1:04:00
Speaker 3: Yeah he called him a moron I have a few
1:04:01
Speaker 3: thoughts on this that I'd like to share First, you
1:04:03
Speaker 3: can tell Ben is very worried that Trump is listening
1:04:06
Speaker 3: to the anti-war parts of the MAGA coalition, right? Because
1:04:09
Speaker 3: I watched the rest of that episode. He spends a
1:04:11
Speaker 3: lot of it attacking Tucker Carlson. And I think the
1:04:15
Speaker 3: loser doth protest too much here. Yes. Second, Ben's argument
1:04:19
Speaker 3: basically boils down to I'm for mindless partisanship, right? We're
1:04:26
Speaker 3: sitting here saying like people we normally profoundly disagree with
1:04:29
Speaker 3: on politics, in fact, find offensive at often. are making
1:04:32
Speaker 3: good points on the merits. We're thinking for ourselves. We're
1:04:35
Speaker 3: using our brains. Ben is like, Obama bad, parts of
1:04:38
Speaker 3: America bad. He's just like a sad little warmonger NPC.
1:04:43
Speaker 1: I thought he was the philosopher king. What do they
1:04:46
Speaker 1: call him?
1:04:46
Speaker 3: Fax stealing something.
1:04:48
Speaker 6: Yeah.
1:04:48
Speaker 1: I thought he was supposed to be like this big
1:04:49
Speaker 1: intellectual force in the Republican Party. And that's all he
1:04:53
Speaker 1: can muster for an argument about why we should go
1:04:55
Speaker 1: to war in Iran is because Donald Trump says so.
1:04:57
Speaker 1: And Pod Save America's against it? Is that what we
1:05:01
Speaker 1: got now?
1:05:01
Speaker 3: If you're taking public policy advice from us on war,
1:05:04
Speaker 3: matters of war and peace, you should look elsewhere no
1:05:06
Speaker 3: matter what, right? And then finally, I was not at
1:05:10
Speaker 3: the White House when the Iran nuclear deal got done,
1:05:11
Speaker 3: but I wish I had been because it was a
1:05:13
Speaker 3: historic achievement and it worked. Iran shipped 97% of its
1:05:16
Speaker 3: enriched uranium out of the country. They agreed to a
1:05:19
Speaker 3: bunch of additional restrictions on the nuclear program, stringent inspections
1:05:24
Speaker 3: by the IAEA to the point where In 2017, Jim Mattis,
1:05:28
Speaker 3: who was the Secretary of Defense for Donald Trump at
1:05:30
Speaker 3: the time, testified before Congress that Iran was in compliance
1:05:33
Speaker 3: with the deal and that it was in our national
1:05:35
Speaker 3: security interest to stay in the JCPOA. But Donald Trump
1:05:38
Speaker 3: hates Obama more than he cares about solving things in Iran.
1:05:42
Speaker 3: So he pulled out, sanctioned Iran. They assassinated Qasem Soleimani,
1:05:45
Speaker 3: the head of the IRGC, in 2020. And then Iran
1:05:49
Speaker 3: drastically ramped up its nuclear activities in support of proxy groups.
1:05:52
Speaker 3: And that brought us to the brink of war. Like
1:05:54
Speaker 3: the art of the deal guy... was too stupid to
1:05:57
Speaker 3: stay in the deal, keep the restrictions on Iran in
1:06:00
Speaker 3: place that prevented them from getting a nuclear weapon, but
1:06:02
Speaker 3: that renegotiate the parts you don't like and then call
1:06:04
Speaker 3: it the Trump nuclear deal.
1:06:06
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, if Barack Obama in
1:06:08
Speaker 1: that fateful meeting with Donald Trump in the Oval before
1:06:13
Speaker 1: he left office and Donald Trump took office, if he
1:06:15
Speaker 1: had just said, hey, let's call the deal the Obama-Trump deal,
1:06:19
Speaker 1: we can call it the Trump-Obama, the Trump-Obama Iran nuclear deal.
1:06:23
Speaker 1: What do you think? I bet we would have been.
1:06:24
Speaker 1: So it was still been in the deal.
1:06:26
Speaker 3: I think he would have had to say, Hey, I
1:06:27
Speaker 3: hate that JCPOA.
1:06:28
Speaker 6: Yeah.
1:06:29
Speaker 1: Maybe you get rid of it.
1:06:30
Speaker 3: And then Trump would have stayed in, but like, that's
1:06:31
Speaker 3: why we're on the brink of war. And by the way,
1:06:32
Speaker 3: this is what Netanyahu always wanted. And these Hawks always wanted,
1:06:35
Speaker 3: they wanted regime change. They wanted the war.
1:06:39
Speaker 1: Well, thanks. Thanks Dave Smith for, uh.
1:06:42
Speaker 3: Can I reach you guys one thing?
1:06:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure.
1:06:44
Speaker 3: Just, uh, regarding Ben's attack on me personally. I take
1:06:47
Speaker 3: no offense. Judge me by the people.
1:06:49
Speaker 2: Do you write a personal statement about this?
1:06:51
Speaker 3: No, I want to read you a passage from a
1:06:54
Speaker 3: column Ben Shapiro wrote in August of 2005. So this
1:06:58
Speaker 3: was years after the U.S. invaded Iraq and we found
1:07:01
Speaker 3: no WMD. The headline is, Why War in Iraq is
1:07:04
Speaker 3: Right for America, 2005. This is why impatient isolationism serves
1:07:09
Speaker 3: us ill in Iraq. Did Iraq pose an immediate threat
1:07:12
Speaker 3: to our nation? Perhaps not. But toppling Saddam Hussein and
1:07:16
Speaker 3: democratizing Iraq prevent his future ascendance and end his material
1:07:20
Speaker 3: support for future threats globally. The same principle holds true
1:07:23
Speaker 3: for Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, and others. Preemption
1:07:28
Speaker 3: is the chief weapon of a global empire. No one
1:07:31
Speaker 3: said empire was easy, but it's right and good, both
1:07:34
Speaker 3: for Americans and for the world. Yes, Ben. empire project
1:07:38
Speaker 3: in the Middle East is going great.
1:07:40
Speaker 1: Yeah. No thanks. No thanks to that foreign policy right there. Thanks, buddy.
1:07:43
Speaker 5: All right.
1:07:44
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break, but before we do,
1:07:46
Speaker 1: in the latest episode of Polar Coaster, Dan, you dove
1:07:48
Speaker 1: into why Trump's disapproval numbers are ticking back up and
1:07:51
Speaker 1: what polls really tell us about immigration. What else did
1:07:53
Speaker 1: you guys cover?
1:07:54
Speaker 2: We went deep into the polling around the war in Iraq. Sorry,
1:07:59
Speaker 2: around the war in Iran. That's a Freudian slip. And
1:08:03
Speaker 2: looked at why voters, including Trump voters, are very opposed
1:08:06
Speaker 2: to this. And Elijah and I did something fun, and
1:08:08
Speaker 2: we talked a little bit about the NBA Finals.
1:08:11
Speaker 3: Oh, nice.
1:08:12
Speaker 1: Well, if you want access to Polar Coaster, which you
1:08:14
Speaker 1: should get, you've got to be a Friends of the
1:08:16
Speaker 1: Pod subscriber. You'll also get access to our Discord community,
1:08:19
Speaker 1: where you can submit questions for Dan and Caroline. Ad-free shows,
1:08:22
Speaker 1: ad-free Pod Save America, ad-free Pod Save the World, ad-free offline,
1:08:25
Speaker 1: ad-free love or leave it. Check it out, and a
1:08:27
Speaker 1: whole lot more. Sign up at cricket.com slash friends or
1:08:29
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. When we come back, you'll hear Tommy's
1:08:32
Speaker 1: conversation with Eric Swalwell.
1:08:43
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1:10:09
Speaker 3: Joining me in studio today is Congressman Eric Swalwell of
1:10:11
Speaker 3: California's 14th District. Great to see you. Yeah, thanks for
1:10:14
Speaker 3: having me back. Are you in town for the Antifa
1:10:17
Speaker 3: guerrilla campaign we're launching tomorrow against ICE? Is that what
1:10:20
Speaker 3: brings you here? That's right. Orientation, right? Yeah. Starts this afternoon. Yeah,
1:10:25
Speaker 3: your stick, your night stick maybe?
1:10:27
Speaker 5: All in.
1:10:28
Speaker 1: Good.
1:10:29
Speaker 6: Actually, tomorrow night I'm doing a town hall in Mission
1:10:32
Speaker 6: Viejo in the 40th Congressional District. That's Young Kim's district.
1:10:37
Speaker 6: That's one of the closest congressional races. If we're going
1:10:40
Speaker 6: to be in the majority next November, if Hakeem Jeffries
1:10:43
Speaker 6: is a speaker, we have to win there. And so
1:10:46
Speaker 6: she won't host a town hall just like most of
1:10:49
Speaker 6: the Republicans. So I've been on this crusade trying to
1:10:52
Speaker 6: do two a month in Republican districts. And it's not
1:10:54
Speaker 6: just that you go and put downward pressure on them,
1:10:58
Speaker 6: especially as the reconciliation bill awaits final passage in the House.
1:11:02
Speaker 6: It's an organizing tool. And it's also a recruiting tool
1:11:04
Speaker 6: because– you know, potential candidates, you know, come to these events.
1:11:07
Speaker 6: They see that there's like a support network around them.
1:11:10
Speaker 6: It helps the locals like collect information about like who
1:11:13
Speaker 6: wants to volunteer, who wants to be involved. And we've
1:11:15
Speaker 6: been getting actually a lot of Republicans showing up to
1:11:18
Speaker 6: these events as well.
1:11:19
Speaker 3: That's great. I went to the one Ro Khanna did
1:11:22
Speaker 3: like an hour from here a few months back. Are
1:11:24
Speaker 3: you guys still getting good attendance and energy?
1:11:27
Speaker 6: We're getting about a thousand people each time that we
1:11:29
Speaker 6: do this. I went to Anna Paulina Luna's district in Tampa,
1:11:32
Speaker 6: had about a thousand people. I was in Folsom in
1:11:34
Speaker 6: Kevin Kiley's district up in the Sacramento suburbs, same thing.
1:11:38
Speaker 6: And we try and create like immediately a permissive environment
1:11:41
Speaker 6: for Republicans because I don't want people who are Republicans
1:11:44
Speaker 6: to feel like if they ask a question and say
1:11:46
Speaker 6: they're a Republican, yeah, that they're going.
1:11:48
Speaker 3: To get jeered.
1:11:49
Speaker 6: And then you start to see the permissive environment allows
1:11:52
Speaker 6: them to, in their questions, say, I'm a Republican and
1:11:55
Speaker 6: I don't like this. And so we've learned a lot
1:11:58
Speaker 6: about like what is drawing them out, what's causing them concerns.
1:12:01
Speaker 6: And this is what you'd imagine. It's threats to healthcare,
1:12:04
Speaker 6: social security, a lot of veterans who.
1:12:06
Speaker 3: Are getting fucked over.
1:12:07
Speaker 6: I mean, no president has fired more veterans than Donald Trump.
1:12:11
Speaker 6: And a lot of these guys are showing up with
1:12:13
Speaker 6: their service hats on to like kind of like proudly
1:12:15
Speaker 6: like show that they served and now their benefits are
1:12:19
Speaker 6: at risk.
1:12:19
Speaker 3: That's great. I'm so glad you guys are doing that.
1:12:21
Speaker 3: I think it's really important. Also, I screwed something up
1:12:24
Speaker 3: on a recent mailbag episode that left the country, and
1:12:27
Speaker 3: you actually corrected me. I said that Democrats had a
1:12:30
Speaker 3: six-year term limit on committee chairs. Turns out that was Republicans.
1:12:34
Speaker 3: Huge error. I wish we did. Yeah. So you'd be
1:12:38
Speaker 3: in favor of a reform like that? 100%. Something to
1:12:39
Speaker 3: get younger members into leadership positions?
1:12:41
Speaker 6: Yeah. We have so much talent in our Democratic caucus,
1:12:46
Speaker 6: but the way our rules are set up, I mean,
1:12:48
Speaker 6: it's very seniority bias. Because of that, a lot of
1:12:53
Speaker 6: people have either left the private sector or they've run
1:12:56
Speaker 6: for other offices because they don't see a pathway to leadership.
1:13:00
Speaker 3: I want to get to some issues of the day.
1:13:02
Speaker 3: Politico reported today that we're talking on Wednesday, June 18th,
1:13:07
Speaker 3: that a federal appeals court appears poised to allow Trump
1:13:10
Speaker 3: to continue to deploy the National Guard to Los Angeles.
1:13:13
Speaker 3: If that happens, how worried are you about Trump just
1:13:17
Speaker 3: like having troops in the streets of Los Angeles or
1:13:20
Speaker 3: other liberal cities in California or anywhere just in perpetuity. Yeah.
1:13:25
Speaker 3: That's the plan, right?
1:13:26
Speaker 6: And he's, I see it as it's kind of like
1:13:28
Speaker 6: a reverse Uno of January 6th, right? So January 6th,
1:13:32
Speaker 6: we needed the troops and that would have meant the
1:13:35
Speaker 6: troops going in against his supporters who were violently attacking
1:13:38
Speaker 6: the Capitol. And so he didn't call them. The reverse
1:13:41
Speaker 6: Uno here is that He wants to put the troops
1:13:44
Speaker 6: there to draw the foul so that his political opponents
1:13:47
Speaker 6: attack the troops and bring violence and then give him
1:13:49
Speaker 6: justification to assert more power. And so, of course, we
1:13:54
Speaker 6: have to keep fighting this in the courts. But I
1:13:56
Speaker 6: think we have to tell the story of, one, like
1:13:58
Speaker 6: the shitty conditions that he's having our troops, you know,
1:14:01
Speaker 6: live in.
1:14:01
Speaker 3: Like they're sleeping on the ground.
1:14:02
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:14:03
Speaker 6: And they're sleeping in squalor. It's not like Afghanistan or Iraq.
1:14:06
Speaker 6: I mean, this is, you know, these are big American cities.
1:14:10
Speaker 6: But the cost as well, $ 134 million for this exercise
1:14:14
Speaker 6: in Los Angeles, $ 40 million for what he did at
1:14:17
Speaker 6: the Capitol last week. And then contrast that with that
1:14:21
Speaker 6: money could have gone to taking care of the troops
1:14:24
Speaker 6: in their healthcare, like veterans healthcare, their veterans injury claims
1:14:28
Speaker 6: that are not being paid out at the rate they
1:14:30
Speaker 6: need to be paid out. And of course, just like
1:14:32
Speaker 6: taking care of the people in our community who count
1:14:35
Speaker 6: on government. So I think the price tag is eye-popping
1:14:39
Speaker 6: for a lot of people, and we have to keep
1:14:42
Speaker 6: raising the alarm on that.
1:14:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I mean, that could be a down
1:14:44
Speaker 3: payment on taking Greenland. You know what I mean? That's right.
1:14:47
Speaker 3: Come on, let's get creative here. California is proposing a
1:14:50
Speaker 3: bill to ban face coverings for officers during official duties
1:14:54
Speaker 3: unless they're SWAT or disaster response. DHS called the bill despicable.
1:14:59
Speaker 3: What's your take? It's weird to me to watch. I mean,
1:15:03
Speaker 3: I just put myself in the shoes of anybody on
1:15:05
Speaker 3: the streets of Los Angeles who All of a sudden
1:15:07
Speaker 3: you're a bunch of guys in plain clothes run up
1:15:09
Speaker 3: on you with masks on and then detain you and
1:15:12
Speaker 3: throw you in an unmarked van. Like that feels like
1:15:14
Speaker 3: a kidnapping.
1:15:14
Speaker 6: It's un-American, frankly. If you're standing on the law and
1:15:19
Speaker 6: justice is on your side, you should have nothing to hide.
1:15:22
Speaker 6: And I say that as a former prosecutor, a son
1:15:24
Speaker 6: of a cop and a brother to two police officers.
1:15:27
Speaker 6: And there's no other law enforcement agency in America that
1:15:30
Speaker 6: routinely is out in the streets with their faces covered.
1:15:34
Speaker 6: But one thing that we can do as a caucus,
1:15:36
Speaker 6: and many of my Democratic colleagues have talked about this,
1:15:38
Speaker 6: is when we're in the majority and we make reforms
1:15:42
Speaker 6: to the immigration system and we fund DHS, one of
1:15:46
Speaker 6: the first things we're going to demand is that they
1:15:48
Speaker 6: show their faces. It's also a public safety issue, especially
1:15:51
Speaker 6: for women. You have some unmasked guy coming up to you,
1:15:55
Speaker 6: you're going to run, go for the mace or the
1:15:59
Speaker 6: pepper spray. I mean, this is your worst nightmare. And
1:16:02
Speaker 6: also it's potentially could put the ICE agent at risk
1:16:05
Speaker 6: if you're in an open carry state like Texas and
1:16:07
Speaker 6: you go up like some, you know, 1800s bank robber
1:16:12
Speaker 6: to someone who's carrying it. It's just, it's not who
1:16:14
Speaker 6: we are. And it really, it offends a lot of people.
1:16:17
Speaker 6: I'm surprised how many people who don't follow politics really
1:16:21
Speaker 6: get uncomfortable when they see these images of masked agents.
1:16:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very scary. We're all sitting here anxiously awaiting
1:16:29
Speaker 3: to see whether President Trump is going to drag the
1:16:33
Speaker 3: offensive military action against Iran. In the House, you have
1:16:36
Speaker 3: Thomas Massey, a Republican, Ro Khanna, your colleague in the
1:16:39
Speaker 3: California delegation, who have put forward a war powers resolution
1:16:43
Speaker 3: that would prohibit the U.S. from entering into the war
1:16:45
Speaker 3: unless it's authorized by Congress. Do you support that effort?
1:16:48
Speaker 3: You think it's a good idea? It is our duty
1:16:52
Speaker 3: to declare war. And we need to know the time,
1:16:55
Speaker 3: like the length of time as to what the commitment
1:16:57
Speaker 3: would be. We need to know the number of troops
1:17:00
Speaker 3: that would be committed. and the terrain covered. So that's
1:17:04
Speaker 3: the three Ts. Maybe a goal. Yeah.
1:17:06
Speaker 6: Maybe like what's the overall mission here. There's no question
1:17:11
Speaker 6: that Iran is a malicious actor that funds terrorism all
1:17:15
Speaker 6: over the globe. And in their founding documents, it is
1:17:20
Speaker 6: a death to America, death to Israel agenda. And we rightfully,
1:17:25
Speaker 6: I think, are defending Israel's skies. But for us to
1:17:29
Speaker 6: go in militarily against Iran. I mean, we know how
1:17:32
Speaker 6: this ends. Tell me the success story in our lifetime
1:17:35
Speaker 6: where we went into the Middle East and a positive
1:17:39
Speaker 6: outcome was achieved. And I also look at these bases
1:17:43
Speaker 6: that are at risk right now because of what's happening
1:17:47
Speaker 6: over there. And it just reminds me, why do we
1:17:49
Speaker 6: still have that kind of presence in the Middle East?
1:17:51
Speaker 3: 40,000 troops in the Middle East.
1:17:53
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:17:54
Speaker 6: And the guy who said no more wars, he's actually
1:17:57
Speaker 6: adding wars to the globe, which is failed leadership on
1:18:01
Speaker 6: his part.
1:18:01
Speaker 3: Completely failed to end the war in Ukraine. In fact,
1:18:05
Speaker 3: many would argue it's worse. Things in Gaza are worse,
1:18:07
Speaker 3: and now we're at a war with Iran.
1:18:09
Speaker 6: And why wouldn't China right now, as they see us
1:18:12
Speaker 6: distracted and unable to bring peace where we promised peace,
1:18:17
Speaker 6: why wouldn't they move on Taiwan at this point? If
1:18:20
Speaker 6: I was China, I would see the United States and
1:18:24
Speaker 6: its influence quite weakened, especially you know, if Netanyahu is
1:18:29
Speaker 6: able to launch these strikes while we were negotiating with Iran,
1:18:33
Speaker 6: making a president who said he's going to end wars
1:18:36
Speaker 6: look weak, like why wouldn't China want to do that
1:18:39
Speaker 6: if the U.S.
1:18:39
Speaker 3: President looks weak?
1:18:41
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:18:41
Speaker 3: I mean, every president, including Barack Obama, who I worked for,
1:18:44
Speaker 3: has said they wanted to pivot from the Middle East
1:18:47
Speaker 3: to Asia. And yet once again, Trump has taken aircraft
1:18:51
Speaker 3: carriers out of the Pacific, sending them the Middle East,
1:18:54
Speaker 3: you know, drawn back in again. I want to play
1:18:56
Speaker 3: a clip for you. This is a guy named Dave Smith.
1:18:58
Speaker 3: He's a comedian and podcaster and frequent guest on Joe
1:19:01
Speaker 3: Rogan show and others like so-called manosphere shows. I want
1:19:04
Speaker 3: you to hear in the audience to hear how he
1:19:07
Speaker 3: is talking about the war with Iran and Trump's involvement.
1:19:12
Speaker 9: I supported him this last year. I apologize for doing so.
1:19:15
Speaker 9: It was a bad calculation. At the time, it seemed
1:19:17
Speaker 9: like the right one. But he should be impeached and
1:19:20
Speaker 9: removed for this one. And not on some ridiculous Nancy Pelosi.
1:19:25
Speaker 9: Of course, the Congress will never do it because they're
1:19:27
Speaker 9: all a bunch of corrupt hacks.
1:19:29
Speaker 4: This is the one thing they support. This is like the, yeah.
1:19:32
Speaker 9: Donald Trump should be impeached and removed for this. All
1:19:35
Speaker 9: of his supporters should turn on him. It's the absolute
1:19:37
Speaker 9: betrayal of everything that he ran and campaigned on and
1:19:40
Speaker 9: everything that he stood for.
1:19:41
Speaker 3: OK, so he lost me on the all of Congress's
1:19:43
Speaker 3: corrupt thing. But I'm wondering, like, the sentiment is good, right?
1:19:46
Speaker 3: It's great to hear these guys kind of seeing the
1:19:48
Speaker 3: reality of who Trump is and what his policies are.
1:19:51
Speaker 3: How do you think we speak to people like Dave
1:19:53
Speaker 3: Smith and show him that we as a party are
1:19:56
Speaker 3: listening and we want to get back to being anti-war,
1:19:59
Speaker 3: anti-forever war party. That's right.
1:20:01
Speaker 6: And this is not what you were promised, right? That
1:20:05
Speaker 6: you were promised that we would reduce the amount of
1:20:07
Speaker 6: conflicts in the world, not increase them. And you were
1:20:10
Speaker 6: right if that's why you supported him. And he's wrong
1:20:13
Speaker 6: for betraying you. It's the US foreign policy goal across
1:20:17
Speaker 6: administrations that we cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon
1:20:21
Speaker 6: I thought we were best off when President Obama negotiated
1:20:25
Speaker 6: an agreement and we had the best eyes and insight
1:20:27
Speaker 6: into Iran as to whether they did. And we saw
1:20:30
Speaker 6: them going the other direction than where they are today.
1:20:34
Speaker 6: And so that, to me, is a case for why
1:20:37
Speaker 6: our engagement in the world matters. And when we can
1:20:40
Speaker 6: bring people to the table, especially our enemies, and negotiate
1:20:44
Speaker 6: to get that result, that matters. That's American leadership.
1:20:48
Speaker 3: I agree. I totally agree. You're a member of the
1:20:50
Speaker 3: Homeland Security Committee. Are you guys getting briefed on any
1:20:52
Speaker 3: increased threats from Iran or Iranian proxies because of this war?
1:20:55
Speaker 3: Is there concern there?
1:20:57
Speaker 6: We've been told that we're going to get that on
1:20:59
Speaker 6: Monday when we're back. Obviously, you know, being, and again,
1:21:05
Speaker 6: Donald Trump sends out one tweet, we have nothing to
1:21:07
Speaker 6: do with this, and then is saying essentially everyone evacuate Tehran.
1:21:12
Speaker 8: Yeah.
1:21:13
Speaker 3: Also, I could smoke the Supreme Leader if I wanted to.
1:21:16
Speaker 6: Yeah, I know where he's staying right now. So that
1:21:19
Speaker 6: certainly brings more threats to the homeland, and I look
1:21:23
Speaker 6: forward to that brief to see what we can.
1:21:25
Speaker 3: Do to reduce that.
1:21:26
Speaker 1: Again, we were told fewer wars, safer.
1:21:29
Speaker 6: On day one, and people have never been more anxious
1:21:32
Speaker 6: about their security here or our friends even in Israel.
1:21:35
Speaker 6: I mean, they are now incredibly anxious about this.
1:21:38
Speaker 3: Ballistic missiles raining down on Tel Aviv. This is crazy stuff.
1:21:42
Speaker 3: speaking of the security situation over the weekend, there was
1:21:45
Speaker 3: this horrific politically motivated assassination in Minnesota. We have since
1:21:49
Speaker 3: learned that this killer had a list of Democrats in
1:21:52
Speaker 3: his car, including some of your colleagues. I was talking
1:21:55
Speaker 3: to Greg Lansman, another Democrat in Congress yesterday. He's a
1:21:59
Speaker 3: friend of mine. It just like sounds just beyond terrifying.
1:22:02
Speaker 3: Have you guys gotten a briefing on what this guy's
1:22:05
Speaker 3: deal was or other, you know, the general kind of
1:22:09
Speaker 3: threat for members of Congress generally?
1:22:12
Speaker 6: We had a briefing, a security briefing yesterday. I learned
1:22:16
Speaker 6: actually it was just today that I was in the writings,
1:22:20
Speaker 6: which was separate, I think, from like the list.
1:22:23
Speaker 3: We are very, I would.
1:22:25
Speaker 6: Say, on edge as a caucus right now.
1:22:27
Speaker 3: I bet.
1:22:28
Speaker 6: And in the call that we had yesterday, I mean,
1:22:30
Speaker 6: there was just a lot of emotion first about not
1:22:33
Speaker 6: feeling like we have enough resources. And personally, I feel
1:22:37
Speaker 6: like it's inevitable that we're going to lose a member
1:22:40
Speaker 6: or someone in a member's family. because of the high
1:22:42
Speaker 6: volume of threats and the low amount of resources devoted
1:22:45
Speaker 6: to this. And that is entirely at the foot of
1:22:52
Speaker 6: the Republican Party. They will not fund the security that
1:22:56
Speaker 6: we need to protect members of Congress. And they won't
1:22:57
Speaker 6: even fund the judges. And in fact, the judges who
1:23:00
Speaker 6: are also receiving an incredible number of threats, they came
1:23:05
Speaker 6: to the Judiciary Committee, which I'm also on, and asked
1:23:07
Speaker 6: for an increase in funding And Jim Jordan and Chip
1:23:11
Speaker 6: Roy both publicly said like that's not going to happen.
1:23:14
Speaker 6: And Chip Roy went as far as to say like
1:23:16
Speaker 6: they are bringing this on themselves with some of their rulings.
1:23:19
Speaker 6: So it's almost like blaming the victim. And so the
1:23:23
Speaker 6: anxiety among my colleagues is that like the threats, what
1:23:28
Speaker 6: they do is we all have to spend out of
1:23:30
Speaker 6: our own campaign accounts to protect ourselves and our staff
1:23:33
Speaker 6: and our family because we don't have the resources from Congress.
1:23:36
Speaker 6: And the aim is to make you do fewer town
1:23:39
Speaker 6: halls so you're not as representative to your constituents. Spend
1:23:42
Speaker 6: more money out of your campaign so you're more vulnerable
1:23:45
Speaker 6: in your own re-election. And then you have these assholes
1:23:49
Speaker 6: on the right, like Mike Lee, who take a tragedy
1:23:54
Speaker 6: like this and blame the Democrats. Yeah, he mocks it
1:23:59
Speaker 6: and suggests that it was leftists who did it. And
1:24:02
Speaker 6: it's very frustrating right now.
1:24:04
Speaker 3: Greg told me he's sitting in his house. terrified, you know,
1:24:07
Speaker 3: waiting for them to catch this Minnesota killer who had
1:24:10
Speaker 3: his name on a list and he could not get
1:24:14
Speaker 3: out of his head the image of that man in
1:24:16
Speaker 3: that terrifying mask. And the reason he had seen that
1:24:19
Speaker 3: image is because someone sent Greg fucking Mike Lee's tweet.
1:24:23
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like that guy literally was
1:24:25
Speaker 3: terrifying someone who thought he might be a victim in
1:24:27
Speaker 3: real time. Just awful. Just to dig into this a
1:24:29
Speaker 3: little bit, can you help listeners understand like what kind
1:24:32
Speaker 3: of resources Yeah. Are currently available to members of Congress
1:24:36
Speaker 3: when it comes to security and what things you might
1:24:38
Speaker 3: like to add?
1:24:39
Speaker 5: Yeah.
1:24:39
Speaker 6: So almost zero. I mean, when you're on the campus
1:24:43
Speaker 6: of the Capitol, thank God the Capitol Police are there.
1:24:46
Speaker 6: But unless you're in leadership, they get around the clock,
1:24:51
Speaker 6: like personal details. Nobody else gets that. anything like that
1:24:55
Speaker 6: at all. And so you're really on your own. And
1:24:58
Speaker 6: so you're, if you're personally wealthy, you can, I guess,
1:25:00
Speaker 6: pay for like personal security.
1:25:02
Speaker 3: Romney talking about like how unbelievably expensive it was for
1:25:05
Speaker 3: him to protect himself and his family as part of
1:25:07
Speaker 3: why he retired. Yeah.
1:25:09
Speaker 6: If you have $ 80, 000 left in student loan debt, like me,
1:25:12
Speaker 6: it's really hard to like, uh, you know, dip into
1:25:15
Speaker 6: your personal funds for security. And so you, you know,
1:25:17
Speaker 6: try and manage it with, uh, your campaign. And so
1:25:20
Speaker 6: there's not many resources right now at all. And that's
1:25:23
Speaker 6: a large part of the frustration. But there's also a
1:25:25
Speaker 6: sense that the antidote to this is a bipartisan condemnation
1:25:31
Speaker 6: of violence. And we often feel like it's a one-sided
1:25:36
Speaker 6: condemnation and we don't get it from the other side.
1:25:39
Speaker 6: And Mike Johnson, by the way, what did he say
1:25:41
Speaker 6: last week about Gavin Newsom? That he should be tarred
1:25:44
Speaker 6: and feathered, right? Like just one of the most horrible,
1:25:47
Speaker 6: cruel acts from like a horrible era. of American history.
1:25:51
Speaker 6: And so that's the direction these guys are going. And
1:25:54
Speaker 6: it's another reason for us to be in the majority. And, and, uh,
1:25:58
Speaker 6: Hakeem Jeffries has said this to many members who face
1:26:00
Speaker 6: a lot of threats that like when we're in the majority,
1:26:03
Speaker 6: like we will get this right. But I'm afraid before
1:26:05
Speaker 6: we get there, uh, we're probably going to see an
1:26:08
Speaker 6: increase in threats and potentially like a loss of a member.
1:26:12
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I, I'm sure speaker Johnson thought he
1:26:15
Speaker 3: was being funny, but tar and feathering someone is like the,
1:26:19
Speaker 3: the first and example I'd think of when it comes
1:26:22
Speaker 3: to vigilante justice, things we shouldn't be for in this country.
1:26:26
Speaker 3: But I agree with you. I mean, part of the
1:26:27
Speaker 3: problem with this is we understandably, I think, default to
1:26:31
Speaker 3: a conversation about security and protecting members and elected officials generally.
1:26:37
Speaker 3: We should, of course, do that. But there isn't this
1:26:39
Speaker 3: conversation about just ratcheting down the tension. And look, more
1:26:43
Speaker 3: security comes with a cost, right? I mean, I saw
1:26:45
Speaker 3: this when I was on the Obama campaign and we
1:26:47
Speaker 3: went from uh, no secret service, the secret service, like
1:26:52
Speaker 3: you're suddenly held at more of a distance from the
1:26:54
Speaker 3: people you represent. Like they, they can't get close to you.
1:26:56
Speaker 3: They can't talk to you. There's no like serendipity on
1:26:59
Speaker 3: a rope line anymore or something, you know? And it's, um, it's,
1:27:03
Speaker 3: it's harmful, I think, to like the political process generally.
1:27:06
Speaker 6: And you can see the direct line of like when
1:27:09
Speaker 6: the threats started to go up and it was 2015
1:27:12
Speaker 6: when a certain person entered the presidential race.
1:27:16
Speaker 3: Ted Cruz.
1:27:17
Speaker 6: And yeah, that's right. And created this environment where people
1:27:24
Speaker 6: felt like, well, if he can tell security to go
1:27:27
Speaker 6: rough up that journalist, or if he can say a
1:27:29
Speaker 6: police officer should bang a suspect's head, you know, on
1:27:32
Speaker 6: the doors, he's put him in the car. If he
1:27:34
Speaker 6: can suggest, you know, the press or the enemy of
1:27:36
Speaker 6: the people, then it's okay for me to talk that way.
1:27:40
Speaker 3: Pardon January 6th, guys. Yeah.
1:27:41
Speaker 7: Yeah.
1:27:41
Speaker 6: And it's, yeah, it's not just, it's not just who
1:27:44
Speaker 6: he is locking up right now and the way he's
1:27:47
Speaker 6: doing it, you know, with his ICE masked agents, it's
1:27:50
Speaker 6: who he put into our community. And also the signal
1:27:53
Speaker 6: that sends to those folks that, why wouldn't I go
1:27:56
Speaker 6: out and commit more violence in his name?
1:27:58
Speaker 3: He's got my back. Right.
1:27:59
Speaker 1: Right.
1:27:59
Speaker 3: And he'll pay my lawyer fees. He'll pardon me. I'll
1:28:01
Speaker 3: do whatever it takes about the kind of congressional business
1:28:04
Speaker 3: that's happening. So the house passed Trump's tax cut for
1:28:08
Speaker 3: billionaires bill by one vote. Sounds like the Senate's making
1:28:11
Speaker 3: a bunch of changes to it. There are reportedly changes
1:28:14
Speaker 3: to the state and local tax deductions that helped get
1:28:16
Speaker 3: a lot of moderate Republicans on board. There's changes to
1:28:19
Speaker 3: the deductions businesses can make that I think will make
1:28:22
Speaker 3: the bill way more expensive, and they're not paying for
1:28:24
Speaker 3: that necessarily. It makes the child tax credit less generous.
1:28:29
Speaker 3: There are deeper cuts to Medicaid. I think the debt
1:28:31
Speaker 3: ceiling increase is bigger. Given what you're seeing, do you
1:28:35
Speaker 3: think there's a chance that Speaker Johnson won't be able
1:28:37
Speaker 3: to get that revised version through the House?
1:28:40
Speaker 6: I do. And by the way, your staff generously offered
1:28:44
Speaker 6: me a LaCroix when I came in to pay for
1:28:48
Speaker 6: this bill. One of the deductions they took away from
1:28:51
Speaker 6: small and medium-sized businesses is to provide food and snacks to.
1:28:55
Speaker 3: To more employees.
1:28:56
Speaker 6: So that was something you could deduct, I think, up
1:28:58
Speaker 6: to like 50%. And they got rid of that so
1:29:01
Speaker 6: that the billionaires can have a bigger tax cut. So
1:29:06
Speaker 6: I guess next time I'll have to come in with
1:29:07
Speaker 6: my own water. I'm going to get you a water bottle.
1:29:09
Speaker 1: But if you.
1:29:11
Speaker 6: Believe the salt crew, and I know your colleagues, because
1:29:15
Speaker 6: I listen to the show, they eye roll you when
1:29:18
Speaker 6: you really want to go into the salt weeds here.
1:29:21
Speaker 6: But if you listen to the salt New York Republicans,
1:29:23
Speaker 6: and I talk to them, They say that if the
1:29:28
Speaker 6: Senate touches salt, they're gone. So that's about four votes.
1:29:32
Speaker 6: And again, they passed it by one last time. So
1:29:34
Speaker 6: they can't lose those four New Yorkers. Now, do the
1:29:37
Speaker 6: moderates always get rolled?
1:29:39
Speaker 3: Yes.
1:29:40
Speaker 6: But those New Yorkers just watched in the last election
1:29:43
Speaker 6: three of the Republican colleagues get beaten. So they know
1:29:47
Speaker 6: that we are going for more seats in New York.
1:29:49
Speaker 6: And we can't be in the majority unless we win
1:29:51
Speaker 6: more seats. in New York and the same thing in
1:29:53
Speaker 6: California who also has the salt issue is, is a
1:29:55
Speaker 6: big issue. And there's still Republicans like young Kim who
1:29:59
Speaker 6: will be thinking about that. So if the salt folks
1:30:01
Speaker 6: stick together, uh, they can kill, uh, the bill.
1:30:05
Speaker 3: Final question for you. So a lot of Democrats feel
1:30:07
Speaker 3: a little, a little demoralized these days. Um, I think
1:30:10
Speaker 3: it knows no King's protests were an incredibly powerful shot
1:30:14
Speaker 3: in the arm for anybody who went, but now we're
1:30:16
Speaker 3: back to like the war, a new war in Iran,
1:30:19
Speaker 3: ice raids, like God knows what else. What's your advice
1:30:22
Speaker 3: to Democrats listening who are trying to figure out how
1:30:25
Speaker 3: to do something to make the country a better place,
1:30:27
Speaker 3: even though we're a long ways away from the next
1:30:29
Speaker 3: federal election?
1:30:30
Speaker 6: Small victories will bring big victories. We saw that in Wisconsin.
1:30:33
Speaker 6: And I know Vote Save America engaged there. And a
1:30:37
Speaker 6: lot of us, through contributions or text messaging, phone banking,
1:30:41
Speaker 6: engaged there. I certainly did. And we beat Elon's $ 30 million.
1:30:44
Speaker 6: And hopefully that's a deterrent to Elon spending a lot
1:30:48
Speaker 6: of money in the midterms.
1:30:50
Speaker 3: New Jersey, Virginia.
1:30:51
Speaker 6: At the end of this year, if we can win
1:30:53
Speaker 6: there with Abigail Spanberger and Mikey Sherrill, get two Democratic governors,
1:30:57
Speaker 6: that will make sure that we have equal access to
1:30:59
Speaker 6: the ballot box in the midterms because we need to
1:31:01
Speaker 6: pick up seats in both Virginia and New Jersey for
1:31:04
Speaker 6: the midterms. But it also gives us momentum, right? I
1:31:07
Speaker 6: think sports is just like politics, like momentum begets momentum.
1:31:11
Speaker 3: I totally agree.
1:31:11
Speaker 6: So we end the year with wins in Wisconsin, Virginia,
1:31:14
Speaker 6: New Jersey. We start to get our confidence back. We
1:31:18
Speaker 6: are able to recruit good candidates because these wins help
1:31:21
Speaker 6: high caliber candidates make the decision as to whether they
1:31:24
Speaker 6: want to run or not, right? So in all of
1:31:25
Speaker 6: these congressional districts that are toss-ups and all the Senate
1:31:28
Speaker 6: seats that are toss-ups, if you're seeing us collect wins
1:31:31
Speaker 6: at the ballot box and you're seeing people go to
1:31:33
Speaker 6: the town squares, like we saw over the weekend at
1:31:35
Speaker 6: the No Kings rallies, you're going to feel like if
1:31:38
Speaker 6: I get in this, there's a chance for me to win.
1:31:41
Speaker 6: And the inverse of that is Brian Kemp, right? High
1:31:45
Speaker 6: caliber candidates on the Republican side, like Brian Kemp, who
1:31:47
Speaker 6: was going to run against John Ossoff in Georgia, He's
1:31:50
Speaker 6: going to take a walk this election. And then I
1:31:52
Speaker 6: would just say to your viewers, what I'm doing in
1:31:55
Speaker 6: my own household, whatever you did in the last election cycle,
1:31:59
Speaker 6: go one rung higher. So just think about what you
1:32:02
Speaker 6: did and go one rung higher. So if you've never
1:32:04
Speaker 6: gone to a protest, go to your first protest. If
1:32:06
Speaker 6: you've never volunteered on a congressional campaign, volunteer on your
1:32:09
Speaker 6: first congressional campaign. If you've never gone to city hall
1:32:11
Speaker 6: to speak on a council agenda, go and speak and
1:32:15
Speaker 6: just find your own agency and fulfillment in doing that.
1:32:18
Speaker 6: We'll probably have to go a lot rungs higher by
1:32:20
Speaker 6: the time we get to the midterms. But for now,
1:32:22
Speaker 6: just go one rung higher and see how that makes
1:32:25
Speaker 6: you feel.
1:32:25
Speaker 3: That's great advice. Congressman Swalwell, thank you so much for
1:32:28
Speaker 3: coming in. My pleasure. Thanks, Tommy.
1:32:34
Speaker 1: That's our show for today. Thanks to Eric Swalwell for joining.
1:32:37
Speaker 3: Love it.
1:32:37
Speaker 1: Tommy and I will be back on Tuesday with a
1:32:39
Speaker 1: new show. Everybody have a great weekend.
1:32:41
Speaker 3: Bye, everyone.
1:32:42
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