Latest / HR Spot / Episode #74 - HR as a Business Partner: A Leader’s Guide to Using HR

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Episode #74 - HR as a Business Partner: A Leader’s Guide to Using HR · HR Spot

0:06
SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to HR Spot.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Linda Michaels, and we have Gary Nye today.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, I shouldn't say today.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: Gary Nye, my tag team partner.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: Every day.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Every day.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Hi five, Gary.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Hi five.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Ugh.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Eric got it.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: We have a good one today.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: When when don't we have a good one, right?
0:31
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, Linda.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: But they're all good.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we're gonna talk about something we see all the time with business owners and leaders.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: You have HR, right?
0:44
SPEAKER_00: Or you have someone handling HR, but you're actually using HR as a business partner, or are you?
0:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: That's the question.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Are you using HR as a business partner?
0:58
SPEAKER_00: There's a big difference between having an HR function and actually getting value from it.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: So the title is HR as a business partner: A Leader's Guide to Using HR.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: I love it, right?
1:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's always someone in that role doing something that's HR, but are they really doing HR, right?
1:24
SPEAKER_01: They might be, you know, documenting something here and there or writing a disciplinary action, but are they really doing the HR stuff?
1:35
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, most business owners really were never taught to do HR or to use HR because they want to handle it themselves, right?
1:43
SPEAKER_01: Save the money.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: You know how to run your business, you know your customers, you know what you're selling, and you know how to make the money, but nobody necessarily sat you down, said, Hey, here's what you should expect by having someone do HR.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: Here's when you should involve them on an issue, and here's what they should be bringing to the table for you.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: So HR sometimes becomes the place where honestly, where paperwork goes the die.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or the place you call after the decision's been made.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna change, we're gonna change that today, Gary.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about what HR should actually be doing, how leaders can use HR strategically, and what you should expect from your internal HR professional or your outside HR consultant like us.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: And and we're gonna let's be real, we're gonna keep it practical, but you know, let's let's get into it.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: Part one, Linda.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: You are already investing in HR.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: So what?
2:55
SPEAKER_01: Now what?
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: So let's start at the beginning with something that business don't always, business owners, they don't always think about.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: You're already investing in HR, whether you use us as your HR consultant or whether you have an internal HR person.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's you know, obviously your HR employee, maybe it's payroll, maybe HR technology, and hopefully it's us.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: But maybe it's time that you and your managers actually spend time dealing with employee issues.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, you're you're spending money on that time on HR, whether you realize it or not.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: So the better question is what are you getting for that investment?
3:43
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: And even if it's an office manager, right?
3:46
SPEAKER_01: They're they're doing HR.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: So what are you getting with that investment?
3:49
SPEAKER_01: And that's the key, really.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: If HR is primarily processing paperwork, updating employee information in your HRIS and um reacting to problems, you're probably not getting everything you should from that investment.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: HR should be helping the organization accomplish the goals through its people, right?
4:13
SPEAKER_01: That's human resources in a nutshell.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: It's like we're there to get you through with your people to make the business better to get to your goals, and that's way bigger than just doing paperwork.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: I view us as a true business partner, I view us as strategic HR business partners, strategic HR consultants, whatever it is.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: So we're not just the handbook people and we're not just processing payroll, and we're not just recruiting, you know, doing recruiting, although all those things are important, but it's it's it isn't about the department that appears when somebody gets fired.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: HR really needs to run side by side with you and help the business accomplish what it needs to accomplish through the people, just like Gary said.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: And while helping to manage the risk, you know, that just automatically comes with having employees, right?
5:11
SPEAKER_00: So that applies whether you have 20 employees or 200 employees, a full HR department or a fractional HR partner.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: They should be working with you to achieve the goals through your people, not just paper pushing.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: But they should really have a seat at the table and they should be strategic partners to get things done.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: So all right, what's next?
5:45
SPEAKER_00: So now we're gonna talk about five ways to use HR as a true business partner.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna make this practical.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: Here are five ways leaders can get more value from their HR, person, department, whatever.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: Number one, bring HR into the decision before the decision's made.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: So if you're restructuring a department, if you're changing compensation, if you're creating a commission plan, promoting somebody into management or making a major organizational change, HR should be involved while you're still planning it.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: Not after you've already announced it.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: When you get the email and in your HR role and you're like, What?
6:37
SPEAKER_01: What just happened?
6:39
SPEAKER_01: I had no idea.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: And especially when people reach out and they're like, What's going on?
6:42
SPEAKER_01: You're like, um, let me get back to you.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right?
6:48
SPEAKER_01: When you're left off guard and not having an answer, it's pretty brutal.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's really a big one.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: So once you've announced the decision, HR may be able to help clean up the mess, and that's you know, part of the job, but you've lost the opportunity for HR to help shape the decision, shape the announcement, prepare for questions and answers.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, bring HR into the room early when that first idea pops in your head about thinking about it, ask.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: Let them ask you before you make the decision.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: What's the impact going to be on your employees?
7:28
SPEAKER_01: What about the team that this person's on?
7:31
SPEAKER_01: Are there compliance issues with doing it?
7:33
SPEAKER_01: Are you skipping over someone who's more qualified, but maybe a little older?
7:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, the things that you have to look at.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: How will manage managers handle this?
7:42
SPEAKER_01: What problems are we actually trying to solve?
7:45
SPEAKER_01: This goes back to some of the things we've talked in other podcasts.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: What problem are you actually trying to solve?
7:50
SPEAKER_01: Promoting someone to try to keep them may not be the best idea, right?
7:55
SPEAKER_01: There's other things that's gonna impact on that.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: What happened six months from now because of this decision?
8:01
SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna do?
8:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so number two on the list is ask HR for data, not our not just opinions, right?
8:12
SPEAKER_00: So data meaning what's your turnover?
8:16
SPEAKER_00: What does that look like currently?
8:18
SPEAKER_00: Which departments are losing the most people?
8:21
SPEAKER_00: Are there certain managers losing more employees than others?
8:25
SPEAKER_00: How long will it take you to fill the position?
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Why are people leaving?
8:29
SPEAKER_00: What's happening with overtime?
8:32
SPEAKER_00: A good HR professional shouldn't say, I think we have a retention problem, Gary.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: They should be able to help you understand what is actually happening.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's that's huge.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: That's important, right?
8:47
SPEAKER_01: That they should be able to ask and guide you through some of those things, right?
8:53
SPEAKER_01: One question will lead to another to try to dig deep into what's going on.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the data tells you something really different from what you've what you assumed the answer was gonna be.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, you may think people are leaving because of pay, maybe, but maybe they're leaving just one department and just one manager, and maybe it's just one shift.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: That's all a very different problem.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: But if you just all of a sudden think I'm gonna throw more money at it and that's gonna fix it, man, it's not gonna fix it.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, you have to figure out what the problem is.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, number three, use HR to mitigate risk before it comes a claim.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: What a concept, right?
9:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: So clear policies, consistent enforcement, trained managers, and good documentation, they don't eliminate the employment risk, but they can reduce preventable risk.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: So prevention is almost always easier than trying to fix something after it's blown up.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes, don't wait till after.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: Bring HR in earlier.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: We can help.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: Number four, use HR to develop your managers.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: This is huge, and it could be a big problem.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: It's it's a huge missed opportunity right there in front of you.
10:24
SPEAKER_01: A lot of managers were promoted because they're excellent at their jobs.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: Again, we've talked about this one.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: They're really good individual contributors, but you promote them because you think that they're gonna be the next great manager, but you never trained them.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Then suddenly they're responsible for people, and nobody actually taught them how to manage people.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
10:46
SPEAKER_01: That was your decision, and it's now on the company to deal with.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and usually HR's problem to deal with, right?
10:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, and you're the manager, figure it out is not management development, right?
11:01
SPEAKER_00: So HR should be helping managers prepare for diff difficult conversations to help them document performance, address conflict, understanding policies, and knowing when something needs to be escalated.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's yeah.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: One that you know, I've heard recently is oh, they should just know better.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: That's not a that's not a trait, that's not a training piece.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: Gotta teach them.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: No, yeah, and you gotta ask them.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, if something happens, you gotta ask them.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, did you know about this?
11:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, should we do we need to coach you more?
11:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's nuts.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, if every employee problem eventually lands on you, the owner, or you the CEO, on your desk or in your office, you don't really have a management system, do you?
11:53
SPEAKER_01: The owner is the management system, and that's not scalable.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we want to prevent all of that.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: That's why HR needs to be brought in.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: And the last one, use HR to help shape your culture.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: So, culture is not your holiday party that you do once a year.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: Culture is what you consistently reward, tolerate, and address.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: And HR can help leadership look at what's actually happening in the organization and ask this decision, does this match the culture we say we want?
12:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: That's a really great question.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: A pizza party is great, but that's HR is not the pizza party planner.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they can be, but that's not their main goal.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: So, Gary, how do companies underuse HR?
12:49
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a good one.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: So let's flip it around a bit.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: One of the biggest ways, I think, is making HR the messenger of bad news, right?
13:02
SPEAKER_01: We we in HR know this is that you you mention HR and everybody all of a sudden shrinks back a little bit or they cringe because that's what they think HR is.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: It's just HR is here to come and talk to me about something.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: And you know, can HR tell them?
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Can HR write them up?
13:22
SPEAKER_01: Can HR fire them?
13:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's kind of that's not the HR role, right?
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's a problem.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: So managers need to manage, and HR can step in and help prepare the manager.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: We can help with the language, we can participate when appropriate, we can make sure the process is handled correctly.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: But if HR delivers every difficult message, then employees eventually associate HR with one thing something bad is about to happen.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Right?
13:58
SPEAKER_01: Harbinger of bad news.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: Here comes HR, right?
14:04
SPEAKER_01: Maybe we do want to be the pizza party planners, so they don't think that.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, another mistake is is turning HR into just an admin data processor.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: That's you're not getting good strategic business use out of that.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: Updating files and entering information, scanning documents.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, scanning documents, changing addresses in the system.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: That's not true.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: HR.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that work matters for sure, right?
14:36
SPEAKER_01: We need to make sure everything is updated, but not all of it requires an HR professional's expertise, right?
14:42
SPEAKER_01: Your training, your education, your you know, experiences, technology or administrative support, maybe able to handle some of that work that your HR professional, or so that your HR professional can focus on things that require the human judgment.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: AI is not going to take that over either.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: And we're allowed to use our experience.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and another big one is HR becomes the department of no.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, you can't do that.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so your HR person says, you can't do that, you shouldn't necessarily be at the end of the conversation.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: Ask, okay, what can we do?
15:24
SPEAKER_00: And a good HR partner should be able to explain the risk and then help you find a workable solution.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's that's important, and that's it's a real distinction there that you you have to to think about and digest a little bit.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: And HR's job isn't to prevent or stop the business from operating.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: That's not anywhere near what we're trying to do.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: But the HR it's to help the business understand risk and make informed, educated decisions.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Gary, I want to fire this person.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: Do it.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: So let's make this really practical.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: So, Gary, you've probably heard this sentence more times than you can count.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: I want to fire this person.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Yep, absolutely.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we hear all the time, and sometimes the leader has, you know, a legitimate reason.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: The employee just isn't performing up to what they expected, or the the behavior isn't acceptable.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: The sis situation needs to end now.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: But then ask the question.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: At least that's what I want to do, is ask one question.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: Where's your documentation?
16:45
SPEAKER_01: What have you documented?
16:48
SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, the answer often is well, you know, I don't have anything.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: Well, nothing formal.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I've I mentioned it the other day in the break room.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: That's not documentation.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's where HR can add real value.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's the answer isn't necessarily no, you can't terminate them.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: That's not always the case, and that's rarely the case, but it might be, hey, let's slow down for a second.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Let's take a minute to make sure the decision decision is supported so you lower your risk.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: Sit down the employee, be clear about what you expect from them, right?
17:31
SPEAKER_01: Clear expectations.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: Explain what happened that's not working, and then document it.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: Write it down if it's in an email to the employee.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: Great, that's documentation.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Hey, per hour conversation, blah, blah, blah.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: That's a document.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: But really, you need to document it.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Tell them what needs to change and by when.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: Here's the error.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: We need to have you fixed by this date.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: That's what a documentation should be about.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: And then follow up with them.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: If the problem continues, yeah, you keep documenting it.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: That's what you do.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: Now the business has record proof.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: You tried, you gave them coaching, you told them what's expected, and you're no longer relying on a frustrated manager's memory of what happened over the last six months.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, you can't document something a year ago and then nothing for another year, and then you want to terminate them and say, Oh, well, I had documentation from 12 months ago.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's always a good one.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: And the documentation is not about setting somebody up to fail, it's about clearly telling an employee, here's the expectation, here's where you're falling short, here's what needs to change, here's your opportunity to correct it.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they turn it around and sometimes they don't.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: But either way, eventually the decision is based on facts rather than your frustration.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, you get the heat of the moment, right?
19:05
SPEAKER_01: You want to just terminate them right now because you're so upset.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: But this kind of gives you that second to pause and really evaluate what's going on.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Do we need to train them more?
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Is that our failure?
19:15
SPEAKER_01: Do we need to do that?
19:17
SPEAKER_01: And that's what good HR support should be doing.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: HR shouldn't automatically say, no, no, you're not doing this.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: But they should be saying, okay, here's the risk.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, this person's over 40, female, and what have you.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: And here's how we're gonna handle it correctly.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: So what happens if the business owner disagrees with HR?
19:45
SPEAKER_01: Well, that unfortunately it happens, right?
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Um and here's something leaders don't talk about enough.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: What happens in this case when you disagree with HR?
20:01
SPEAKER_01: What do you what happens?
20:03
SPEAKER_00: We disagree, and that's okay, right?
20:06
SPEAKER_00: HR's job is to advise, and then leaders decide what's gonna happen.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: So a truly good HR professional should tell you what they think, explain the risk, give you some options, but at the end of the day, the business leader owns that decision.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: And that's you know, let's be clear this is HR internally.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: If you're you know in-house HR, if you're a consultant, if you're a one-man show or whatever it is, you give the advice, and the business leaders make the decision, and then we go from there, right?
20:47
SPEAKER_01: And I've absolutely had clients as well as internal make decisions that were different from what I suggested as a best best practice, or here's the safest way to do it.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I thought, yeah, they're taking too much risk on this.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they had business information, maybe they didn't share, right?
21:07
SPEAKER_01: And and that happens, you know, maybe they didn't want to share the nitty-gritty.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes they made the call and it worked out.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: That that's awesome, right?
21:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, the important thing is that HR gives the honest advice.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: So business owners need to ask HR, what are my options?
21:32
SPEAKER_00: What is my risk?
21:34
SPEAKER_00: What would you recommend?
21:37
SPEAKER_00: And then make the decision and own the outcome.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: But there's another danger that we want to bring up.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: So if HR learns that giving leadership honest advice gets them blamed later, HR will eventually stop giving honest advice.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: They start telling leadership what leadership wants to hear.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: That's not a true business partner.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: And that's a that's a tough spot to be in.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: I think we probably have all been there once, right?
22:08
SPEAKER_01: Like you brought something up a couple times, or they came to you and asked, and you, this is what I think is the best course of action.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: And they don't go with what you say, and then they come back and go, Why didn't you tell me?
22:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, here it is.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: We've talked about this multiple times.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, or at the end, you know, you were like, I really feel uncomfortable about doing this.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: This is not the best decision.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, how come you didn't bring it up before?
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Or we already were going down this path because of, you know, you didn't bring this up before.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, let's go back a little bit.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: We we've talked about this, but it's that's rough.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes the best HR person in the room is the person willing to say, I don't understand why you want to do that, but here's what you need to think about first.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: You know, here's your risk, and this is what could happen.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Now let's dive into what you should expect from an HR consultant.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh, let's talk about it specifically, right?
23:15
SPEAKER_01: The business owners out there who outsource or thinking about outsourcing HR, what should they expect, Linda?
23:24
SPEAKER_01: What do they what are they gonna get themselves into?
23:28
SPEAKER_00: So first the HR consultant needs to learn about your business, not just your handbook, but we need to understand your goals, your people, your industry, your challenges, where the organization's going.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: And this a good you know, business owner should ask us questions before they start handing solutions, right?
23:54
SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna just give you solutions.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: So you gotta ask questions.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: So um the HR business partner or the HR consultant also should give you options and explain risks associated with those options.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: A good HR consultant needs to be very responsive quickly.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: And if you have a difficult employee conversation tomorrow, you shouldn't have to wait till next week for guidance.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: That's a whole nother issue.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and we should be telling you the truth, even when it's very uncomfortable.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: And and lastly, we should tell you where our expertise ends, right?
24:36
SPEAKER_00: So sometimes the right and right HR answer is this needs to actually go to an employment attorney.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I can't emphasize that one enough.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Just, you know, there's some point it's we're not the one to make that decision, right?
24:53
SPEAKER_01: Like I can give you all the guidance in the world and it's your decision to make, but this is really the the next step to keep yourself protected, is just reach out to your attorney, just have them review something, right?
25:04
SPEAKER_01: It's important, you know.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: And I'll add one more a good HR consultant really should build your capability and not your dependency.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: It's not just here, give it to HR, they'll take care of it.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: That's not what it's about.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: Your manager should be getting better, your processes should be getting better, your organization should become more capable of achieving those goals that you talked about at the beginning, because HR is involved.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's that's an important point.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: So if you're evaluating your current HR support, and you know, we're gonna give us a little plug, but if you're in-house HR support, if you ask yourself six months from now, how will I know that this relationship is actually creating value?
26:05
SPEAKER_00: So that's a much better measurement than simply asking, did HR answer my emails?
26:11
SPEAKER_01: Or file my papers or yeah, fix fix my storage problem or what have you, right?
26:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the next one I think we're too small for HR.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: This is like a mindset for some businesses, right?
26:26
SPEAKER_01: Quote unquote, we're too small for HR.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
26:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we hear this all the time.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: We only have 15 employees, we don't need HR.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, so who is doing the HR?
26:43
SPEAKER_01: Right?
26:43
SPEAKER_01: Because, like we talked about, we started somebody's doing it, somebody's doing that that onboarding paperwork and that I-9.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: Is it the owner at 10 o'clock at night?
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Is it the office manager who also is running to the store to get coffee?
26:59
SPEAKER_01: Is it the bookkeeper who is you know doing accounts payable and receivable?
27:05
SPEAKER_01: It's the person who's been there the longest.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: The HR work doesn't just disappear because no one has that HR by their name or in their title, right?
27:14
SPEAKER_01: It's someone's doing it.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: And the the answer isn't that every small company needs a full-time HR person, it's about right sizing your HR support.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: And maybe, you know, that's good payroll technology.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: So you have a good HRIS slash payroll system in place.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: You have a current handbook, manager training, access to an HR professional when you need guidance.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: And as the company grows, then your HR support grows with it.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's huge, right?
27:47
SPEAKER_01: It's the support that grows with it because the you as you grow, you're increasing responsibilities, risks, and duties, right?
27:58
SPEAKER_01: So get the right expertise, the right amount of support, and get it at the right time, get it early.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Don't wait till after decision has been made.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Get it early.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, with us, you have options of hourly as needed.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: So, right, you don't have an HR person, but oh my gosh, you have an employee relations issue.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: Then you call us hourly as needed.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you call us for one of our small packages, and we do we manage all the crap that you shouldn't be managing.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, so let's do let's finish with a quick self-check.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: So I love it.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Let's think about your organization over the last 90 days.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: Was HR involved before a major decision, or was HR involved after that major decision?
28:52
SPEAKER_01: Right?
28:54
SPEAKER_01: I think you get the theme.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about doing it early, yeah, competitive, proactive, not reactive.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: How about is your HR professional sending or spending most of their time doing work that simple technology or an administrative support person can handle?
29:15
SPEAKER_01: Right?
29:16
SPEAKER_01: We're not phone answering, we're not answering your phones for you, we're not directing emails and so on for you.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: And when there's difficult news to deliver, does the manager deliver it with HR supporting them or are they floundering by themselves?
29:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Or does HR get sent in to do the manager's job?
29:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's the big one.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: Here, you're you're gonna do this, Gary.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, no, no, no.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh that's not the job.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: If you wanted to terminate someone tomorrow, could you uh clearly explain the why, right?
29:55
SPEAKER_01: And can you back it up with the documentation?
30:00
SPEAKER_01: Do you have those details already prepared?
30:02
SPEAKER_01: And did you go over the business reason why?
30:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Here's a good one, Gary.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: So if you asked your HR partner, um, what would you change about my business?
30:18
SPEAKER_00: What would your HR partner tell you?
30:22
SPEAKER_01: And here's here's the key next step.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: Would you actually listen?
30:27
SPEAKER_01: And would you actually take that to heart, right?
30:30
SPEAKER_01: I I think people have that conception of HR being the person who's gonna fire someone or be the pizza planner.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: Are you actually gonna listen to take to heart what they tell you?
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's probably the better question, Gary.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Is are they actually gonna listen?
30:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: So let's bring this back before we close.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, HR should actually be uh a true business partner versus a paperwork pusher.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh, bring in HR early, ask for the data, use HR to help you manage the risk, use HR to develop your managers, and you want to use HR to shape the culture you're trying to build.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and don't don't reduce HR to doing your paperwork for you.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: Bad news delivery or the holiday party, use them as a strategic partner, right?
31:28
SPEAKER_01: It's it's so important.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: Your HR professional should help you make better educated decisions about your people and your business.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: And when you disagree with HR, because that's gonna happen.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: When you disagree with us, then get the options, right?
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Understand the risk and then make your decision.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's okay, right?
31:54
SPEAKER_01: If you disagree, but HR advises, we give you guidance.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: Leaders are the ones who make the decisions based on that and other knowledge that maybe they didn't share, but they leaders, they make the decision.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes, leaders decide, and then leaders own that outcome.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: Whatever that looks like, leaders own that decision.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: So if this episode today gave you a different way to think about HR, share it with another business owner or maybe somebody on your leadership team.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: And if you're wondering whether you're actually getting value from your HR person, um that's exactly the kind of conversation we'd love to have with you because we actually bring value when we work with our business owners.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening, everybody, and make sure you reach out to Linda at AzHR Hub or Gary at Az H R Hub.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: And I hope uh everybody learned a little bit more about HR today.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: We'll catch you next time.