Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 64: Understanding Attachment Wounds in Sexual Addiction Recovery

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64: Understanding Attachment Wounds in Sexual Addiction Recovery · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

0:00
Hey everybody, so question for you.
0:02
Have you ever been told that you need to take a look at your
0:05
trauma history and you're like trauma history?
0:08
What are you talking about? I don't think I have trauma.
0:11
Or maybe just like getting curious about like your nervous
0:14
system and how you respond to things and just let sounds like
0:16
foreign language. We're going to go through that
0:19
today and I'm pulling Laura into this conversation, so let's jump
0:23
into it. Welcome to Beyond the Facade
0:28
podcast. I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and
0:30
I'm thrilled to have you join me in the space today.
0:32
What we're going to be doing is diving deep into the trials and
0:35
triumphs and truths of seeking authenticity.
0:38
Becoming your true self isn't about a single action or a
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moment. It's a relentless pursuit, a
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commitment to self that reveals a rich connection and meaning
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that our life has to offer. So whether this is your first
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time tuning in or you're a regular listener, know this,
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what you're building here goes beyond a conversation.
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You're here to challenge, to change, and to celebrate the
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incredible journey of becoming your authentic self.
1:01
Because when you dare to show up fully, the rewards are
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immeasurable. So welcome to Beyond the Facade.
1:06
Let's get started. All right, welcome back, Laura.
1:11
Third time back to this podcast. Appreciate you coming back.
1:13
I don't know how long we'll be able to keep you around for, but
1:15
this is fun. We always get really good
1:17
feedback when you show up here. So thank you for coming.
1:20
Well, thanks for having me. OK, so let's jump right into
1:24
this. All right, So Laura runs one of
1:28
our phase two groups with men, and we were talking about
1:32
attachment, we're talking about wounding, we're talking about
1:35
some of those things. And Laura, I wonder if you could
1:37
just set us up for this concept, is telling us what you do in
1:40
these groups, talking about attachment with these men, would
1:42
you? Yeah, we actually will spend,
1:46
man, we just camp out in this attachment lens for just a
1:49
little bit because it's such an important factor in sex
1:53
addiction and sex addiction recovery is that attachment and
1:57
attachment wounding that we experience as children.
2:02
So usually I'll start with what is attachment?
2:05
And then we talk a little bit about attachment styles and then
2:08
we'll talk about how that attachment wounding can lead to
2:13
a sexual addiction. And then we talk about how that
2:17
shows up in relationships, and then what do we do about it?
2:20
What kind of look do you get from men or what do you see on
2:23
their faces when we start talking about this subject?
2:26
What would you get from the guys?
2:28
I would say when we first start talking about it and what is
2:31
attachment, there is a little bit of a like a wall that
2:35
sometimes goes up, maybe because their partner has talked to them
2:38
about you have a insecure attachment or you have been
2:42
avoiding attachment. And that feels like, oh, here we
2:45
go. We're just going to be attacked
2:46
again. But as we talk about it more and
2:49
we get into what that looks like in the life of compulsive sexual
2:54
behavior, now there's like light bulbs going off and all of a
2:58
sudden it's a, oh, I'm not broken.
3:02
I'm a product of my environment. What would you say to the scary
3:07
conversation that could exist for either partner?
3:10
That's like, you're going into history.
3:11
This is going to be excuses like the scariness of that, of
3:14
focusing on the past and so the present.
3:17
You mean from the partner's perspective?
3:18
Yeah, Yeah. Because I always value that.
3:20
Yeah, for sure. And we actually go through this
3:22
in my choose healing groups as well.
3:24
And when on the partner side, when they hear about this and
3:29
how this impacts their partner who has betrayed them, it
3:34
actually is really validating for them because this was part
3:36
of their life that was there before I ever showed up.
3:40
So a big part of a partner's healing in the beginning is what
3:44
did I do wrong and how can I change and what does he need
3:48
more from me or why wasn't I enough?
3:50
Is the narrative that the partners dealing with?
3:54
And that kind of goes away when you recognize, oh, this is an
3:57
attachment. This goes down to the very core
4:01
of their attachment style. I haven't got this and this is
4:04
kind of a little bit of a side jog even though we haven't
4:06
gotten deep into it today. I have gotten in sessions with
4:10
clients sometimes with our partner says, hey, what did you
4:12
work on this week or what were you focused on?
4:15
I'd like to hear about it. And that's great that they want
4:17
to be aware of what their partners doing in their
4:20
recovery. And they're like, wait, you're
4:22
talking about like your family of origin, stuff like that.
4:24
Why are you focused on the right stuff?
4:26
Can you speak to that at all? Like a partner that's concerned
4:29
because we, by the way, I don't know if you know this or not,
4:31
Laura, 45% of our listeners are actually the betrayed partner.
4:35
It's pretty high. So the question is if you for
4:40
the, and I'll say the guy, because that's typically who I'm
4:43
working with in these group settings, That is who I'm
4:46
working with these group settings, they'll do some
4:49
attachment work, they'll get into it and their partners like
4:52
you're spending a lot of time on something that is it really
4:55
going to make a difference? Like you shouldn't be focused on
4:58
the tools that will stop you from acting out rather than
5:00
spending time in history. Could you speak to that at all?
5:04
Yeah. So the way that I think about
5:07
that is like if I had a cut on my arm and I just, I don't like
5:12
that it's getting all over my clothes, so I stick a Band-Aid
5:15
on it. If I'm not actually doing the
5:17
work to dig out the infection and to get rid of the thing
5:21
that's causing the infection, then it's not going to go away.
5:25
It's going to eventually bleed through my bandage, right.
5:27
So it's important for me as a clinician to be working with the
5:35
things that led up to the acting out behavior, because the acting
5:38
out behavior is a symptom. It's not the problem.
5:43
So we want to get down to the problem so that it's not an
5:46
ongoing problem that just keeps resurfacing in different ways.
5:50
Yeah, yeah, OK. I kind of feel like I'm in the
5:53
Twilight zone a little bit. Do you hear that from the
5:55
betrayed partners very often, that they're concerned about the
5:59
type of work they're doing that it's on like family of history
6:02
and attachment? Do you get that or not so much?
6:04
No, I do. I think it's a a pretty quick
6:07
reframe though, because I, I want to just validate the
6:11
partners space, right? Like she's bleeding out and oh,
6:17
you're going to go work on the infection in his arm.
6:20
Like I am bleeding out. I need this to stop now.
6:23
I need that behavior stopped. But I don't keep bleeding out
6:27
and I want to hold space for that, of course.
6:30
And the work that we do it with a betrayed partner of creating
6:33
that safety and stability to to get her wound to stop bleeding
6:37
out so that he can work on his on his wounding.
6:42
Yeah, I got it. Got it.
6:43
I got it. OK.
6:44
So when it comes to attachment wounds, because that's something
6:47
we're going to be talking about today and like the need for
6:49
regulation, can you tell us what attachment wounds are, Laura?
6:53
Yeah. And I think it might be helpful
6:55
to kind of rewind and just talk just like an overview of what
6:58
attachment is first. So 4 basic principles of
7:03
attachment. The 1st is that we seek out,
7:05
track and work to maintain relationships, connection with
7:08
other people throughout our lives.
7:10
The second is that when we feel threatened or upset, we actually
7:15
will turn to those attachments for comfort.
7:18
And then the third is that when we have a loss of attachment
7:21
that is traumatizing. And then the 4th 1 is that when
7:26
we have a secure attachment, we feel more confident in exploring
7:30
the world around us. To go back to your question, so
7:33
now knowing what attachment is, then how does that attachment
7:37
wounding show up? That attachment wounding shows
7:40
up is when we have a traumatic or chaotic environment and we
7:44
don't have an attuned caregiver to help us regulate our emotions
7:48
in that because a child cannot regulate their own nervous
7:52
system. They need an attuned caregiver
7:54
to learn how to do that so that they can regulate their nervous
7:57
system as they get older. Now a lot of a lot of people I
8:02
work with believe they had an attuned caregiver until they
8:06
start to dig into it. Can you speak to that at all?
8:08
Yeah, yeah. So I would talk about attachment
8:11
wounding can happen in, well, multiple ways.
8:14
But if I were to put it into two categories, one would be like
8:18
the too much too fast. That would be verbal, emotional,
8:22
sexual, physical abuse, like active abuse.
8:25
So too much too fast for my nervous system.
8:28
But then we have the other side and that that hidden side of
8:31
attachment wounding where it's too little for too long and for
8:34
whatever reason I have a dysregulated nervous system.
8:37
I go to my attachment figure for those attachment needs to be met
8:42
and they aren't attuned to me. So what that might look like is
8:48
we don't talk about emotions in our family.
8:51
I know my parents love me, but they never really said it right.
8:55
Without that ongoing attunement, we can't regulate our nervous
8:59
system. Too little for too long is also
9:01
traumatic for a child. OK, let's actually slow that
9:06
part down Too much too fast. Will you give examples of that?
9:10
Yeah, So verbal abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse,
9:16
psychological abuse. So you're talking about, like,
9:18
big tea trauma, Yeah. Yeah, I would say that would be
9:21
big tea, trauma, holling, yelling, right?
9:24
Like a very hot environment where emotions are maybe
9:28
explosive within their environment.
9:31
Yeah, OK. And then what was the other one
9:34
you said? Too little.
9:36
Too little for too long. Too little for too long.
9:40
Yeah. And what that might look like is
9:42
and not at the fault of the parent necessarily, right?
9:45
Like maybe they just maybe there's a special needs child in
9:48
the family that takes a lot of care and attunement that then
9:53
pulls it away from the other children in the family, right?
9:55
Maybe there's a death in the family and you've got grieving.
9:59
Maybe you've got one caregiver that is a hot environment, the
10:04
too much too fast, and the other caregiver is just trying to
10:08
survive that environment and can't be attuned to her children
10:11
or his children because they are just trying to survive right
10:16
then. Things that take away the
10:17
atonement are buried. They're not always intentional.
10:22
In fact, rarely are in the too little too long category.
10:25
It's really just a like I'm maybe just barely surviving and
10:29
it's hard for me to attune to my children.
10:31
Is this when you I've heard you talk before about hot box, cold
10:34
box? Is this what you're talking
10:35
about? Yeah.
10:36
So the too much too fast would be a hot box and the too little
10:40
for too long would be a cold box.
10:42
Yeah. So how would, OK, so I'm
10:45
listening to this podcast. I'm like, how does this apply to
10:47
me? Because I don't know how I would
10:50
go about identifying if I got too much too fast or too little
10:53
over too long a period of time. What's the What's a good way to
10:57
identify this? I think as we talk about it, you
11:01
start to recognize your own lived experience in it, right?
11:05
I think when I'm talking to men or women in whichever group,
11:10
there's a lot of like, light bulbs going off like, oh, yeah,
11:13
my, my dad was at all of my baseball games.
11:17
He never missed a basketball game.
11:19
He was always there for every award ceremony.
11:23
And I never heard him say I love you.
11:26
Or if I was upset, I got sent to my room until I could show up.
11:31
Calm in a in the family. Emotions weren't safe to be
11:35
expressed or talked about in my family.
11:37
OK, that would be cold box, right?
11:41
Hot box is a lot easier to identify.
11:43
A lot of times that yelling and active abuse that's easier to
11:48
identify. It's almost like what society's
11:50
already we've all agreed on, which is not OK.
11:54
More the other stuff's a little harder to see because it might
11:57
come across as normal when it's really not healthy or helpful.
12:02
Yeah, yeah. And this isn't a place where
12:05
we're going to be like blaming, right?
12:06
This we're just naming. This is my experience and given
12:11
my experience now what do I do with it?
12:14
Yeah, One of the things that's been helpful for me in
12:16
identifying this in my own journey is when I think, I think
12:22
about the emotions that I really didn't want to experience, like
12:25
the most painful ones, Embarrassment.
12:29
If I was embarrassed, where did I go for that?
12:32
I didn't go anywhere. There was nowhere safe enough
12:35
for that to fill. I didn't have an environment
12:37
that was going to hold me. What?
12:39
I was embarrassed, right? And so I was very much alone in
12:43
that. That was something that I
12:46
couldn't have seen until I started to do the work of.
12:48
There was certain things I would have been aware of as a little
12:51
guy that made me believe I don't have anywhere that I can go.
12:54
Yeah. And OK, that's a really good
12:58
kind of explanation of how this trauma induced sexual addiction
13:02
model works, right? Michael Barda is the one that
13:05
came up with it, and he would say that sexual addiction is
13:10
formed as an attempt to regulate a dysregulated nervous system.
13:14
OK, so this example that you just gave of embarrassment, that
13:17
was I didn't know how to handle that when I'm thinking from a
13:22
perspective of window of tolerance, right?
13:24
We've got the like the window of tolerance and then we get bumped
13:27
up into fight or flight, but something like embarrassment
13:32
where I don't know how to handle it, that pushes me past the
13:35
fight or flight into collapse, right?
13:38
That emergency shut off switch that now I can't.
13:42
I'm paralyzed, I'm frozen. And if a child gets into that
13:47
state of their nervous system, that's terrifying because I
13:51
don't know how to get out of that.
13:52
And I didn't ever have an attuned caregiver that helped me
13:55
to up regulate out of that. So if my nervous system is
13:58
dysregulated and I don't know how to regulate it, that's
14:02
terrifying and that's traumatizing for me.
14:05
So this sexual addiction being formed out of an attempt to
14:09
regulate a dysregulated nervous system, You think of a child
14:14
who's dysregulated and happens to be exposed to sexually
14:18
explicit material, whether that be through pornography or sexual
14:22
addiction. I mean sexual abuse of some
14:25
sort. When you have that happening at
14:29
that critical period where this child doesn't know how to
14:32
regulate their nervous system, physiologically their body
14:35
responds to that material and it feels good, even though it's
14:41
confusing and it feels wrong at the same time, but
14:43
physiologically it numbs out the pain.
14:47
And when that becomes my go to for how to numb out the pain
14:55
that becomes compulsive which that can lead to addiction.
15:00
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
15:01
I got chills right down my spine just thinking about the all the
15:07
everything I've learned about this.
15:09
And I think about the I think about the formative years, the
15:13
horrible experience. And it wasn't for everybody that
15:15
like middle school, right. And I think for a young man
15:18
coming into sexual maturity during that time or sexual
15:22
growth and development and how we'll go back to that word of
15:27
embarrassment, feeling alone and isolated.
15:31
And then also navigating by himself, wanting to feel seen
15:37
and connected. And then getting the those
15:41
hormones, those chemicals in his brain that say you are
15:44
connected, you are OK. And that's actually through
15:48
sexual behavior that leaves him feeling that.
15:51
And that is a powerful, powerful experience.
15:55
And if he was alone in that, that would really, that would
15:59
really change some stuff. That would really change some
16:01
things. For sure.
16:03
And what that acting out behavior is, is a counterfeit.
16:08
It's not really connection, but we're trying to plug it in for
16:13
connection, right? Maybe my caregiver, I have this
16:16
felt sense that they should love me.
16:19
They like they're my caregiver. They love me whether or not they
16:23
say it, but if I'm not experiencing love, then I want
16:28
to plug in something that feels like love so that I can feel the
16:31
experience of what I should feel in my primary attachment
16:37
relationship. It's funny.
16:39
I want to like, find a new word rather than love, if you don't
16:42
mind, because love is that one where it's like, yeah, it's just
16:44
so easy to say my parents love me.
16:46
But I'm thinking is like that bond, that being seen that, that
16:49
closeness, right? That, you know, what was that
16:54
able to be felt? And if it wasn't, what happened
16:57
next? Because we don't survive without
16:58
that stuff. Yeah, right.
17:02
We're going to take a quick break for a moment.
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more and to register. Let's get back to our episode
18:12
question they have for you. They have and I've learned the
18:14
words adaptive child. So that's what we've been
18:17
talking about today is the child shows up, there's these needs
18:22
that maybe they can't figure out how to get them met because they
18:25
don't see that they have an attune parents.
18:27
So they go and they find, we call it a maladaptive way of
18:31
getting those needs met. Like porn or masturbation,
18:34
whatever it might be, might feel connecting.
18:37
Let's feel an empty hole. But how does our nervous system
18:41
adapt? And then how do we get something
18:44
different back? How do we change if we if we're
18:47
wired one way, how do we rewire back the other way?
18:52
Oh, that's a good question. Let's maybe slow that down and
18:55
talk about how it gets wired in the 1st place.
18:58
So we have this hot box, cold box experience and if I am
19:03
exposed to sexually explicit material or sex sexual abuse at
19:09
that point and I have that physiological response, I begin
19:13
to plug in for when I'm dysregulated.
19:17
OK, now I know how to take care of myself, right?
19:20
So I developed this working model within myself of what an
19:24
attachment looks like. I go to my attachment figure for
19:28
my attachment needs to be met and they aren't met.
19:31
So I have to take care of myself and I plug in a physiological
19:36
response, right? And the more that I do that, the
19:39
more that my brain is wired to seek that out as like an
19:43
automatic response to dysregulation.
19:46
OK? So if that's my working model
19:49
now I'm going to carry that working model into a romantic
19:54
relationship, right? So this is where maybe I get
19:58
into a relationship with my partner.
20:00
And in the beginning it feels really healthy and secure.
20:04
And oh, this is what I was missing.
20:06
It's not that I have a sexual addiction, it's that I had a
20:10
relationship problem and now I have a relationship.
20:12
So I don't need that anymore. And as that.
20:16
That relationship develops and it becomes an attachment.
20:20
Now that working model is triggered.
20:23
And so now my brain is saying I can't actually get my attachment
20:27
needs to be met by this person. So now I have to self soothe.
20:32
And so now we're back in the addictive cycle, right?
20:36
And so when that happens and we have D days where the partner is
20:41
discovering things or where things are disclosed now, that
20:46
relationship becomes the primary trigger for the acting out
20:51
because it's triggering that attachment wound from my
20:53
childhood that then I have to self soothe because that's what
20:58
I've learned as a child. So when you ask, OK, how do we
21:02
rewire that? We need to consistently show our
21:06
nervous system something different.
21:10
Yeah. Like, like, can you give us like
21:15
for how long and how much do we have to show it something
21:18
different? And that's just that you, you
21:20
attend a class, right? And then you deteriorate and you
21:22
run it and you run with it. I'm being sarcastic, right?
21:24
Yeah. Right.
21:26
You just learn it, and then once you've learned it, you're good.
21:28
Yeah. You're good, right?
21:30
No, it's, it's at a deep level, it's practice.
21:34
Like I'd think about how long does it take to turn into
21:37
something in talent like 10,000 times if I want to get really
21:40
good at something. And I just think about
21:41
repetition, I think about experience.
21:44
I think, I think about even like exposure therapy, right?
21:46
I have to put myself in that situation, not put myself in
21:50
that situation. But it's not easily rewired.
21:54
Right, right. And and when I say we have to
21:58
consistently show our nervous system something different, that
22:02
consistency part is an ongoing part, right.
22:06
We're going up a down escalator. So there is no point at which we
22:11
can say I have arrived and I can stop the work because I'm
22:15
recovered. This is a new way of living and
22:18
showing my nervous system. I can regulate my nervous system
22:22
in healthy and adaptive ways. The minute I stop doing that, by
22:25
default I'm going down because I'm on a down escalator.
22:28
You just blew my mind. I've never heard you say that
22:30
before. Kate.
22:31
What do you mean you're going up and down escalator?
22:33
Because that is really powerful. Yeah.
22:37
Have you ever done that at a mall or at an airport or
22:39
something where the escalator is going down?
22:42
I've done it halfway. I never could make it all the
22:44
way, but I've done it like halfway.
22:46
Yeah, well, you can make it to the top if you keep going, but
22:49
you have to keep going. There is no point at which we
22:53
just say, oh, I'm recovered, I'm healed.
22:55
I can stop doing all of the work.
22:58
This is a new way of interacting with the world.
23:02
My ADHD got a hold of that and I'm just so excited about that
23:05
analogy. So you're saying recovery is
23:07
like that? It's like going up and down
23:09
escalator, like you got to keep moving because if you stop, it's
23:12
going to be taken from you. It would just slow this analogy
23:14
down. That matters what?
23:16
What do you what do you referring to?
23:18
Yeah, well, let's, let's just look at the maladaptive ways and
23:21
how did I get here? That's that down escalator.
23:24
I my default is a working model that has not served me.
23:29
I didn't learn how to regulate my nervous system as a child.
23:33
That is something that my default is to go to maladaptive
23:38
behavior. And as I'm working recovery,
23:41
it's not always going to look the same, right?
23:44
It's not like I have to always be in a 12 step group and always
23:47
be with a therapist and a coach and have an accountability.
23:51
That's not going to be maybe the rest of my life.
23:54
Recovery is going to look different, but the mindset is
23:58
going to have to be consistent. The mindset is I'm showing my
24:02
nervous system something different than what I
24:04
experienced as a child. I'm never going to just end
24:08
recovery work. So does the escalator like stop
24:14
you start going other direction? No, just keep.
24:17
I just keep consistently going forward.
24:21
Just keep consistently going forward.
24:22
Yeah, I just like the analogy because I sometimes I hear just
24:28
how long somebody's been in the journey.
24:30
But if you think about it, that is a pretty big effort.
24:33
If you ever gone up and down an escalator and you've died,
24:39
that's the only way. You have to be consistent in
24:41
that order to get anywhere, right?
24:42
Very consistent. And that's what our bodies are
24:44
asking for. That's what family of origin a
24:47
primary attachment was supposed to give us was consistency.
24:50
What we knew we could count on, and that's what we're asking
24:54
from a more mature part of this that we're developing, is the
24:57
consistency, not perfection, consistency.
25:00
And let's just also acknowledge, though, that it does feel like a
25:04
lot of effort in the beginning because I haven't exercised
25:07
those muscles of recovery. The more I exercise those
25:10
muscles of recovery, the more those muscles get stronger and
25:14
that effort feels less because the muscle is stronger.
25:20
Yeah, yeah, very much, very much an overwhelming experience.
25:24
I've never used that muscle ever before.
25:28
What else on this Laura that comes to mind for you?
25:31
So I think a lot of things, a lot of times when we talk about
25:35
this attachment model and attachment wounding and how it,
25:39
how it can lead to sexual addiction, the big question is,
25:43
so then what do we do about it? How do we fix it, right?
25:47
And again, like it's consistently showing our nervous
25:49
system something different. If I want things to be
25:52
different, I have to do things different.
25:54
So that's part of it, right? I have to be intentional about
25:57
doing things differently, recognizing when I'm getting
26:00
stuck sucked back into that pattern so that I can choose
26:05
something different, and being willing to go back through
26:10
trauma healing modalities. You can use brain spotting or
26:13
ART or EMDR. Sometimes even guided meditation can be really
26:17
helpful in going back to those childhood woundings and re
26:21
parenting ourselves. That I can show myself that I I
26:26
am worthy of love and connection, even if that wasn't
26:31
shown to me as a child. Yeah, yeah.
26:34
The ones you just mentioned, I know we're not giving the
26:36
answers today because it's way more to longer conversation.
26:40
I think I was hearing you, Laura.
26:41
This attachment concept goes on for how many weeks in your
26:44
groups? About 5.
26:46
About 5 weeks, just the attachment piece.
26:48
I don't want to say just the attachment piece, but it's going
26:51
to, it's going to take some time to understand it.
26:54
But one of the things that chooses pivoting slightly with
26:57
is the amount of somatic work we're doing in Phase 2, like our
27:02
last men's intensive when we did the helper heal so much somatic
27:06
work like the that just think of the book, the body keeps the
27:09
score, right? Where is trauma stored?
27:11
It's stored and it's there. I might not know it.
27:13
I might not be able to see it, but I have to get to it and all
27:16
right, My opportunity is to get to it if I'm going to make any
27:19
progress. And it's not going to happen
27:20
here. Here isn't like rationally,
27:23
logically it's going to be felt somewhere else.
27:27
Yeah, yeah. You think about trauma is
27:30
physical. You can't heal a physical wound
27:34
by talking about it. Talking about it can bring it
27:37
back up, but we have to be willing to physically and
27:40
somatically move that through our bodies.
27:42
Can you go imagine going to physical therapy because you
27:44
messed up your muscles and they're like, hey, I just like
27:46
to talk about this to get my muscles to get better?
27:49
Yeah. Don't stretch me out.
27:51
Don't stretch me. Don't push me this.
27:52
Let's just talk about it. Yeah, we can do that, right?
27:55
I love that you brought that up to like, there's a physical
27:57
injury there, you know? OK, Laura, thank you so much for
28:02
joining us for this conversation.
28:04
Attachment. I think I it's a part of the
28:06
recovery journey, learning about where our wounds come from,
28:10
learning about ourselves. And it's layered.
28:13
It's one layer at a time. You peel off one layer, you're
28:16
like, I think I got to something, I think I got to the
28:18
root here. And then you all sudden realize
28:20
in a short period of time you pull off another layer and
28:22
you're like, whoa, there's more stuff underneath.
28:24
So whether it's like layers or it's like when you you're
28:28
putting all your energy in and you, besides the layers, think
28:32
about going on a hike and you're trying to gain, you're trying to
28:36
get some distance and you come up over the Ridge and then
28:39
there's, you think you made a destination, there's another
28:41
hill. And then what do you do?
28:42
You go and you make it an X Ridge and there's another hill
28:44
behind it. There's layers, more hills to
28:47
come. Just creating awareness of what
28:49
you've gone through. Any last thoughts, Lauren?
28:52
Then we'll wrap it out. I would just say that I, as an
28:56
attachment therapist, that's the lens that I focus through.
28:59
I think that this attachment piece is such an important part
29:02
of both sides of this journey. It's important to see what our
29:07
attachment style is and learn how we've been wounded and then
29:12
how we can repair ourselves and have that secure functioning
29:16
regardless of what our attachment style is.
29:19
Yeah, I'm getting curious about it.
29:21
OK. All right.
29:21
Thank you, Laura. It's good to have you here.
29:24
All right, everybody, take care and we'll talk to you next time.
29:26
See ya. Hey, thanks for joining us
29:30
today. If this is something that you
29:32
connected with, I'd love to meet with you more and talk about it.
29:35
So what you can do is go to chooserecoveryservices.com or
29:38
check the show notes and there what we can do is set up a quick
29:41
conversation. Thanks so much for listening to
29:44
Beyond the Facade where we unmask the authentic self.