Latest / Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby / How to Connect With Your Partner on a Deeper Level | Debra Fileta | Love | E522

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How to Connect With Your Partner on a Deeper Level | Debra Fileta | Love | E522 · Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby

0:09
Speaker 1: Before we get into today's episode, I want to take
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1:12
Speaker 1: All right, now, let's get into today's episode.
1:20
Speaker 2: People pleasing, passivity, isolation, aggression. There's a lot of things
1:27
Speaker 2: that we've learned along the way that maybe served us
1:30
Speaker 2: in one season of life.
1:32
Speaker 3: But if we don't face that and change it, it
1:34
Speaker 3: sabotages us.
1:45
Speaker 1: If you're in a rough patch in a relationship, it
1:48
Speaker 1: can feel.
1:49
Speaker 4: So helpless, like how do I fix this?
1:52
Speaker 1: I've tried everything I know how to do, and that
1:55
Speaker 1: does not mean your relationship is doomed. It might just
1:59
Speaker 1: mean that you need a fresh set of skills and
2:02
Speaker 1: some different tools in your toolbox.
2:05
Speaker 2: So it's not just about being nice. It's deeper than that.
2:08
Speaker 2: It's about emotionally healthy interactions. It's about knowing who I
2:15
Speaker 2: am and what I have to bring to the table
2:17
Speaker 2: of relationships. And the beauty is that skills.
2:22
Speaker 1: Can be learned, and that is what you're going to
2:31
Speaker 1: get out of today's episode. By the end of our
2:34
Speaker 1: time together, you are going to get a whole bunch
2:37
Speaker 1: of new ideas and things to do differently that will
2:41
Speaker 1: immediately help you improve all of your most important relationships.
2:46
Speaker 1: You'll create deeper connection, warmer presence, learn how to repair
2:50
Speaker 1: things after a miss so that you can have stronger,
2:54
Speaker 1: healthier relationships with your partner, even at work, even with
2:58
Speaker 1: your friends. Thanks so much for tuning in today. I'm
3:14
Speaker 1: your host, doctor Lisa Marie Bobby. This is Love, Happiness
3:17
Speaker 1: and Success, where every week we're talking about all kinds
3:20
Speaker 1: of things to help you learn, grow, have stronger relationships,
3:25
Speaker 1: more confidence and clarity, and even a better career. And
3:30
Speaker 1: today's topic is so fundamentally important because healthy relationships or
3:37
Speaker 1: hard relationships can impact every single area of our life.
3:43
Speaker 1: And the reality nobody taught us exactly what to do
3:48
Speaker 1: or not do in these little micro moments that can
3:50
Speaker 1: make or break the way a conversation goes, whether or
3:54
Speaker 1: not something turns into a conflict, or whether or not
3:58
Speaker 1: something turns into a courageous commonsation that connects. And that
4:02
Speaker 1: is what we're here to learn how to do today
4:04
Speaker 1: with my very special guest, Debrah Falta. She is a
4:09
Speaker 1: licensed professional counselor relationship expert and author of the brand
4:14
Speaker 1: new book called is It So Perfect People Skills subtitled
4:20
Speaker 1: Your relationships are only as strong as your skills And
4:24
Speaker 1: isn't that the truth? Debrah? We have so much to
4:27
Speaker 1: talk about today, and I'm really glad you're here.
4:30
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to be here and to chat with you.
4:33
Speaker 1: Ah well, let's just dig into it. So you are
4:37
Speaker 1: the author of nine different books, which is incredibly impressive,
4:44
Speaker 1: and I know this is born out of your work
4:47
Speaker 1: and helping people have better relationship and improve themselves. But
4:50
Speaker 1: let's talk about this latest one. People skills. Take us
4:55
Speaker 1: into this. Why is it so important right now?
4:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially now in this generation that we're living, and
5:03
Speaker 2: we live in such a tech saturated culture. You know,
5:07
Speaker 2: where we used to have to go to the grocery
5:10
Speaker 2: store and have a human interaction and check out our groceries.
5:15
Speaker 2: Now you pick up your phone with a couple clicks
5:17
Speaker 2: of a button and you say, leave it at my door,
5:20
Speaker 2: so you don't even have to interact with another human being.
5:24
Speaker 2: We live in a world of screens, and we live
5:27
Speaker 2: in a world where our human interactions have been replaced
5:32
Speaker 2: by inanimate objects, and so we've naturally lost some of
5:39
Speaker 2: our ability to relate to people. It's interesting, doctor Lisa,
5:44
Speaker 2: because we are so connected online, but as you know,
5:49
Speaker 2: we're feeling the most isolated, alone and lonely in this
5:53
Speaker 2: generation than we've ever felt before, highest numbers of depression, anxiety, loneliness,
6:00
Speaker 2: and so something is wrong in the way that we're engaging,
6:05
Speaker 2: and I really believe that there's a way to do
6:06
Speaker 2: it better. The other real heart behind this message of
6:11
Speaker 2: people's skills is so often I'm working with couples or
6:16
Speaker 2: individuals who are struggling in friendships or parent relationships or whatever,
6:21
Speaker 2: and I find myself saying, it's not a lack of love,
6:25
Speaker 2: it's a lack of skill, like nobody's ever taught them,
6:29
Speaker 2: or nobody's ever taught you the skills. The intentions might
6:33
Speaker 2: be good, and I think sometimes we judge ourselves based
6:36
Speaker 2: on our intentions rather than how we're actually coming across.
6:41
Speaker 2: So there's some work to be done in this area
6:44
Speaker 2: for all of.
6:44
Speaker 1: Us, definitely, And that I think is such an empowering
6:48
Speaker 1: message because it can feel so discouraging when our relationships
6:51
Speaker 1: are feeling rocky or rough, and I think this idea
6:56
Speaker 1: that this is something that we can work on. These
6:59
Speaker 1: are skills can be developed. This is a growth mindset moment,
7:03
Speaker 1: because I think without that perspective, people can fall into
7:07
Speaker 1: this false belief around. You know, if a relationship feels hard,
7:12
Speaker 1: it means that there's something wrong. People might look to
7:16
Speaker 1: their partner's character flaws or issues of compatibility and go
7:21
Speaker 1: into some dark places where you're saying, yeah, solvable problem,
7:27
Speaker 1: right exactly.
7:29
Speaker 2: And I do think there's empowerment in looking in First
7:34
Speaker 2: relationships are kind of like a recipe, and you know,
7:39
Speaker 2: you have a set of ingredients, and I have a
7:42
Speaker 2: set of ingredients, and I can't necessarily control or change
7:46
Speaker 2: or alter your ingredients. I can spend my life trying,
7:51
Speaker 2: but it's not going to get me anywhere. And I
7:53
Speaker 2: think oftentimes that's where we put the majority of our
7:56
Speaker 2: investment in trying to change the person and front of us,
8:01
Speaker 2: but it gets us nowhere. But if we see relationships
8:04
Speaker 2: like a recipe, and I have a certain set of ingredients,
8:07
Speaker 2: and you have a certain set of ingredients, and I
8:10
Speaker 2: commit to refining my ingredients and making them the highest
8:14
Speaker 2: quality ingredients that I can, and I remove the ones
8:18
Speaker 2: that aren't so good and hold on to the ones
8:21
Speaker 2: that are good. Just by changing my ingredients alone, I
8:26
Speaker 2: change the outcome of the entire recipe. And so I
8:29
Speaker 2: do think it's a really empowering concept for me to
8:32
Speaker 2: be able to say, what can I do differently that
8:36
Speaker 2: will change this entire recipe. Oh, it's all about ownership.
8:40
Speaker 1: Yes, definite ownership and personal responsibility. And this core idea
8:47
Speaker 1: you know that we talk a lot about a barriage
8:49
Speaker 1: of family therapy, is that relationships are systems and that
8:53
Speaker 1: whatever is going on you are co creating it and
8:56
Speaker 1: by under exactly what you're putting into that system, doing
9:00
Speaker 1: things differently, you can get a different output, not by
9:04
Speaker 1: controlling another person, but by developing yourself. And so this
9:09
Speaker 1: is where we can start talking about like these people's skills,
9:13
Speaker 1: you know that, like, well what can I do differently?
9:16
Speaker 1: And and first of all, can we just talk about
9:20
Speaker 1: one part of this? Like I feel like many times
9:23
Speaker 1: in our culture we think of like being good with
9:27
Speaker 1: people air quotes. It's like a charisma thing, like a
9:32
Speaker 1: personalityzing is something you either have or you don't. So
9:37
Speaker 1: how are people skills different from that naturally skilled way
9:45
Speaker 1: of being it feels good for other people? How do
9:47
Speaker 1: you different?
9:49
Speaker 2: You know, even the people who come across as naturally
9:54
Speaker 2: good with people, I would question that. I would say
9:59
Speaker 2: that's probably the circumstance of a series of experiences that
10:05
Speaker 2: they have walked through that have caused them to develop
10:09
Speaker 2: a comfort with people because it served them in one
10:13
Speaker 2: season of life. And what's interesting is just because you're
10:17
Speaker 2: nice and just because you're extroverted doesn't actually mean you
10:21
Speaker 2: have good people's skills because nice can also be passive.
10:27
Speaker 2: Nice can be somebody who is a people pleaser. And
10:31
Speaker 2: that's not good people's skills, right, So it's not just
10:34
Speaker 2: about being nice. It's deeper than that. It's about emotionally
10:38
Speaker 2: healthy interactions. It's about knowing who I am and what
10:45
Speaker 2: I have to bring to the table of relationships. And
10:48
Speaker 2: the beauty is that skills can be learned. You know,
10:53
Speaker 2: there are things that we can be trained in, we
10:55
Speaker 2: can learn, but sometimes before we learn new skills, we
11:00
Speaker 2: have to unlearn the old ones that we carry into relationships,
11:04
Speaker 2: the things that sabotage us, such as people pleasing, passivity, isolation, aggression,
11:14
Speaker 2: fear of vulnerability. There's a lot of things that we've
11:18
Speaker 2: learned along the way that maybe served us in one
11:20
Speaker 2: season of life. You know, withdrawing might have served us
11:23
Speaker 2: in one season of life when things got stressful, but
11:27
Speaker 2: if we don't face that and change it, it sabotages
11:31
Speaker 2: us in another season of life. And so a big
11:34
Speaker 2: part of this is unlearning the skills that we've learned
11:38
Speaker 2: that have sabotaged us as much as it is about
11:41
Speaker 2: learning new ones. And that's the hope. Whether you're an
11:44
Speaker 2: introvert or an extrovert, whether this comes naturally for you
11:48
Speaker 2: or not, these are things that can be learned just
11:52
Speaker 2: like we develop and strength train our muscles.
11:55
Speaker 1: Okay, so then we're tossing around terms people pleasing becoming withdrawn,
12:07
Speaker 1: But like, what does this look like somebody who hasn't
12:13
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to develop some of these skills or
12:16
Speaker 1: maybe needs to unlearn some things. How are they know?
12:19
Speaker 1: What would they experience in their relationships that would be
12:24
Speaker 1: like that the warning light on the dashboard that they
12:29
Speaker 1: have some skill building to do. Yeah.
12:32
Speaker 2: I think that's a good question, and it's going to
12:35
Speaker 2: look different for different people. You know, it doesn't always
12:38
Speaker 2: look the same. But I think the one thing we
12:40
Speaker 2: should open our eyes to is that we are looking
12:44
Speaker 2: for patterns rather than pain points. And when I say
12:48
Speaker 2: pain points, I mean I just had a conflict with
12:51
Speaker 2: this person, or that was awkward, or I just walked
12:56
Speaker 2: into a room and I wasn't sure what to say
12:57
Speaker 2: and it felt really weird, or did you get weird
13:00
Speaker 2: vibe from her. We're not just talking about one time
13:03
Speaker 2: pain points. We're talking about patterns. So things I keep
13:07
Speaker 2: seeing over and over, For example, why do I get
13:12
Speaker 2: really really close to people and then all of a
13:15
Speaker 2: sudden they disappear? You know, it's the relationship crumbles, or
13:20
Speaker 2: why is it really hard for me to let people
13:24
Speaker 2: into my life? Why don't I have really good friendships?
13:28
Speaker 2: Or why do I find myself often feeling bitterness and
13:32
Speaker 2: resentment towards the people I love? I feel like the
13:36
Speaker 2: relationship becomes unbalanced and I'm giving way more than they are,
13:41
Speaker 2: or why are we constantly in conflict and tension? So
13:46
Speaker 2: those are just some different examples that you might be feeling.
13:50
Speaker 2: And when you start to see a pattern emerging again
13:54
Speaker 2: and again, whether in the same relationship, Okay, here it
13:57
Speaker 2: is again, Here it is again, or maybe in different
13:59
Speaker 2: reas relationships up there it is again, and there it
14:02
Speaker 2: is over here, And that's when it's a good time
14:05
Speaker 2: to start assessing what am I bringing to the table,
14:09
Speaker 2: what is my role in this equation, and how can
14:12
Speaker 2: I begin to do it differently?
14:16
Speaker 1: So good, and I love this too, because you know,
14:20
Speaker 1: random things can happen, right, and that is part of
14:23
Speaker 1: a life experience. But you're saying that when you start
14:26
Speaker 1: to notice patterns and you're like, wait a minute, I'm
14:30
Speaker 1: a common denominator here exactly going to pay attention, and
14:33
Speaker 1: of course we're not trying to criticize or beat yourself
14:36
Speaker 1: up or shame field things. But just this like a
14:39
Speaker 1: thoughtful way of how how could I potentially be co
14:43
Speaker 1: creating this outcome because these things don't feel good to
14:46
Speaker 1: me and they keep happening.
14:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, exactly. That so just out of.
14:52
Speaker 1: Curiosity, and then we need to take a short commercial break.
14:56
Speaker 1: But out of curiosity, what is your respect to someone
15:01
Speaker 1: who believes like I'm attracted to the wrong people and
15:06
Speaker 1: that's why these things keep happening over and over again.
15:09
Speaker 1: I mean that could certainly be part of it. I
15:12
Speaker 1: am choosing and wise people to be friends with it,
15:15
Speaker 1: to be in romantic relationships. But could there be anything
15:18
Speaker 1: else there?
15:20
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, even the idea of being drawn to
15:25
Speaker 2: the wrong relationships is something we need to take ownership of.
15:30
Speaker 2: Because human beings are magnetic, and in a way, we
15:35
Speaker 2: attract and engage with people on our similar level of
15:41
Speaker 2: emotional health and development. So it's like, maybe my magnet
15:47
Speaker 2: is drawing and attracting people who aren't so healthy. So
15:51
Speaker 2: what can I do differently? I've got to start changing
15:53
Speaker 2: the magnet. I've got to start changing what's going on
15:57
Speaker 2: inside of me. I call it the relationship radar, so
16:01
Speaker 2: that it starts to recognize healthy from unhealthy, and that
16:06
Speaker 2: can only happen when I begin to do the work
16:09
Speaker 2: in me. And you know this better than anyone as
16:13
Speaker 2: an LMFT is. The reality is so much of that
16:17
Speaker 2: work has to do with the things that we grew
16:20
Speaker 2: up and the things that are familiar to us, because
16:24
Speaker 2: sometimes it's easier to choose what's familiar over what's healthy.
16:29
Speaker 2: You know, the emotionally unavailable guy, the narcissist, all those
16:35
Speaker 2: different things. The dysfunction from our past, if we don't
16:39
Speaker 2: face it and address it, starts to seep into our
16:43
Speaker 2: relationships in the present. But the hope in all of
16:46
Speaker 2: this is that relationships.
16:49
Speaker 1: Are a mirror.
16:50
Speaker 2: They give us an opportunity to spotlight certain things that
16:55
Speaker 2: we need to pay attention to and give us the
16:58
Speaker 2: invitation to go deeper and heal.
17:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing and again such an empowering statement. You know,
17:04
Speaker 1: like we're all products of a culture and an environment,
17:08
Speaker 1: and it's so easy to just unconsciously replicate what we
17:11
Speaker 1: know because it feels normal. It's like just the way
17:15
Speaker 1: it is, and all of us can benefit of a
17:18
Speaker 1: little bit of introspection, self awareness and being more thoughtful
17:23
Speaker 1: with all of this to understand this is serving me.
17:26
Speaker 1: Well do I want to keep doing this? And where
17:28
Speaker 1: do I need to grow?
17:30
Speaker 2: So?
17:30
Speaker 1: I love this? Yeah, so listen, we need to take
17:35
Speaker 1: a really short break and then when we come back,
17:39
Speaker 1: I would love we could go here next to get
17:43
Speaker 1: your insight into some of the biggest communication mistakes or
17:49
Speaker 1: skill fails that can really erode relationships that people might
17:56
Speaker 1: not even be totally aware that they're doing. Is that okay?
18:00
Speaker 2: Perfect? I have three things that come to mind right now,
18:03
Speaker 2: so I can't wait.
18:04
Speaker 1: We'll talk about them all right after this break. My friend,
18:17
Speaker 1: you're hearing so many good ideas come out of this conversation,
18:21
Speaker 1: and knowledge is one thing. Applying it is entirely different.
18:28
Speaker 1: You have to follow through and do the things if
18:31
Speaker 1: you want to experience positive changes in any relationship. And
18:35
Speaker 1: sometimes it can be hard to put those great ideas
18:39
Speaker 1: into practice, but with the right support from a fantastic
18:44
Speaker 1: therapist or certified coach, it can feel easier to do
18:50
Speaker 1: the things, practice the skills, and start experiencing the positive
18:54
Speaker 1: changes in your relationship. And that is what we do
18:57
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Speaker 1: back with our very special guest, A Falletta, author of
22:02
Speaker 1: the book People Skills.
22:04
Speaker 4: So, Deborah, just.
22:05
Speaker 1: Before the break, we left on a cliffhanger. You are
22:09
Speaker 1: going to give us a visibility into the things that
22:13
Speaker 1: people will do without even realizing they're doing it that
22:17
Speaker 1: will make relationships worse pretty much every time. What are
22:23
Speaker 1: the usual suspects?
22:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, this past week I had the opportunity to write
22:30
Speaker 2: an article for People Magazine online, and I talked about
22:36
Speaker 2: my husband and I and our differences in communication over
22:39
Speaker 2: almost twenty years of marriage. And I think our differences
22:44
Speaker 2: could definitely cause trouble in our marriage, and they have,
22:49
Speaker 2: but we've learned to work through them and find middle ground.
22:54
Speaker 2: And here's what our differences are. We have different comfort
22:57
Speaker 2: zones in our level of community. And I think people
23:03
Speaker 2: think that just talking is communication, But what we don't
23:08
Speaker 2: realize is that there's actually levels to our communication that
23:11
Speaker 2: takes us deeper in relationships or keep us stuck at
23:14
Speaker 2: a superficial level. So let's just chat about the three
23:17
Speaker 2: levels real quick. The first level are the facts level one.
23:23
Speaker 2: It's superficial. It's the shallow end of the pool. We
23:27
Speaker 2: can have a facts conversation with anyone. We can have
23:30
Speaker 2: a facts conversation with a stranger. How's the weather, who's
23:33
Speaker 2: playing in the game tonight? You know, what are you
23:37
Speaker 2: up to today, what's your schedule like? And so you
23:40
Speaker 2: can talk to people on a very superficial level, and
23:44
Speaker 2: you can have an hour, two, three hours of conversation
23:48
Speaker 2: still not necessarily go deeper in your interaction with them
23:53
Speaker 2: until you hit level two of communication, and that's taking
23:58
Speaker 2: it a little bit deeper. Level too, is the ideas
24:02
Speaker 2: and opinions. It requires a little more vulnerability because it
24:07
Speaker 2: requires a little bit more of you. What do you
24:11
Speaker 2: believe about the weather, what's your favorite thing, what's your
24:15
Speaker 2: opinion about this or that or the other thing. It's
24:19
Speaker 2: asking for more of you in the conversation, and so
24:24
Speaker 2: it requires a little bit more depth and intimacy and vulnerability.
24:28
Speaker 2: And then it moves us into level three, which is
24:31
Speaker 2: the feeling's territory. How do you feel? I feel inadequate, embarrassed, hurt,
24:39
Speaker 2: misunderstood alone. It's much more vulnerable because it requires a
24:45
Speaker 2: whole lot more of you. And there's a learning curve
24:50
Speaker 2: here because some people grow up in families where they
24:52
Speaker 2: just hover at level one and two. They don't really
24:55
Speaker 2: go into level three. It feels awkward. It's not normal
24:58
Speaker 2: to talk about how you feel and engage on that level.
25:02
Speaker 2: And so I've seen people who've been married for years
25:04
Speaker 2: and years and years who aren't really good at engaging
25:08
Speaker 2: in level three, and they don't understand why after years
25:12
Speaker 2: of marriage they still don't feel a deep connection and
25:16
Speaker 2: vulnerability with each other. And that's because just because you
25:20
Speaker 2: talk a lot doesn't mean you've really given a lot
25:25
Speaker 2: of yourself, and so there's a learning curve there. And
25:28
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the biggest mistakes people make
25:30
Speaker 2: in communication, is they think the quantity of words equals
25:36
Speaker 2: the quality of words, and that is not accurate.
25:41
Speaker 1: That's a phenomenal point, and you're absolutely right. It is
25:44
Speaker 1: not that we are articulating words. Is that there is
25:48
Speaker 1: a more intimate connection that is based on things that
25:52
Speaker 1: are deeper, more important. But let me ask you this,
25:57
Speaker 1: and I'd be really curious to hear your take on
26:01
Speaker 1: this well, because you talked about you and your husband
26:05
Speaker 1: having kind of different comfort levels with communicating.
26:09
Speaker 2: He says he's He says he likes to be the
26:12
Speaker 2: guy in the in the shallow end, waiting in the
26:15
Speaker 2: duck floating, And exactly he's just hanging out in his
26:20
Speaker 2: duck floating and I am, according to him, the scuba diversy.
26:25
Speaker 2: I can just stay underneath the surface of that water
26:28
Speaker 2: for so long and sometimes he's like, deb it's time
26:30
Speaker 2: to come up for air, Like we've been down here
26:33
Speaker 2: for way too long, you know. But but he's right,
26:37
Speaker 2: and I think the beauty of it is that in
26:40
Speaker 2: a healthy relationship, you're not just in level three every
26:43
Speaker 2: hour of every day, else you would suffocate. But then
26:47
Speaker 2: you can't just stay in level one either. And so
26:49
Speaker 2: one thing that we have found, as I guess you
26:52
Speaker 2: could call it a hack, that has kept our relationship
26:56
Speaker 2: strong for all of these years. And we probably started
26:59
Speaker 2: this five years into our marriage during a hard season
27:04
Speaker 2: where we were feeling really disconnected. We had two little babies.
27:07
Speaker 2: He was working, he was in residency, working over one
27:10
Speaker 2: hundred hours a week, I was home with the kids,
27:13
Speaker 2: and just we just didn't feel like we were connecting.
27:16
Speaker 2: And so we started having these weekly check ins where
27:20
Speaker 2: every Sunday night at nine pm, after the kids were
27:24
Speaker 2: in bed, we would sit face to face on the
27:27
Speaker 2: couch with no TV, no phones, no screens, no distractions,
27:33
Speaker 2: and we would talk. We would start with level one,
27:36
Speaker 2: and we would go into level two, and then we
27:38
Speaker 2: would intentionally move into level three and just spend some
27:42
Speaker 2: time being vulnerable with how we're doing personally and how
27:46
Speaker 2: we're doing in our marriage and just talk through things.
27:50
Speaker 2: And honestly, I feel like that time, even though you know,
27:54
Speaker 2: thirty minutes a week, let's just say, at the minimum
27:56
Speaker 2: we talked for thirty minutes of quality converse. That check
28:01
Speaker 2: in has been transformational because the average couple doesn't have
28:06
Speaker 2: that type of conversation for even ten to fifteen minutes
28:10
Speaker 2: a week, and so it gives you a pocket of
28:13
Speaker 2: time and space to be intentional about going a little
28:17
Speaker 2: bit deeper.
28:20
Speaker 1: And you know what is also coming up for me
28:22
Speaker 1: just as you're talking, like, I think that's sometimes in
28:25
Speaker 1: my experience, and I say this as a marriage counselor,
28:29
Speaker 1: that can be part of the function of people scheduling
28:33
Speaker 1: marriage counseling sessions with me a third party person who's
28:37
Speaker 1: you know, hundreds of dollars to come and have an
28:40
Speaker 1: emotionally intimate conversation in a scheduled way at predictable intervals,
28:45
Speaker 1: and so you can do this on your own, I
28:48
Speaker 1: think is one of the takeaways that I'm hearing Dever saying,
28:51
Speaker 1: like you did an exacts on the couch and have
28:54
Speaker 1: a conversation but with the intention of bringing it into
28:57
Speaker 1: more more meaningful space is because if it's just you know,
29:02
Speaker 1: new sports and weather, it's not going to have the
29:04
Speaker 1: same impact your emotional connection. But okay, so here's a
29:09
Speaker 1: question that I do. I want to get your your
29:12
Speaker 1: thoughts on because you know something that I've been thinking
29:15
Speaker 1: about more and more lately. I've been getting more into
29:18
Speaker 1: the theory of personality and the way that people are
29:23
Speaker 1: simply wired differently, right, I mean, there's a whole spectrum
29:28
Speaker 1: of personality types. And I think something that comes up
29:32
Speaker 1: in my relationship sometimes while we're a dische where we
29:36
Speaker 1: saw like a couple of friends just like talking tea
29:39
Speaker 1: right now, So let me tell you about my marriage. Well,
29:42
Speaker 1: you know, my husband he is a feeler, right, Like,
29:48
Speaker 1: he feels things intensely and he will get he like,
29:52
Speaker 1: oh yeah, And you know what, I honestly love the
29:55
Speaker 1: deep end as well, in the sense of is it meaningful,
29:59
Speaker 1: as it interesting, as important? You know, like yes, let's
30:01
Speaker 1: go all the way in like fine, But I think
30:05
Speaker 1: that he tends to experience like a lot more dark
30:11
Speaker 1: emotions than I do. And I also met couples like
30:15
Speaker 1: that where one person is feeling big things and they're
30:18
Speaker 1: upset about this and they're having a hard time with that,
30:20
Speaker 1: and like there's that type of stuff and the other
30:22
Speaker 1: person tends to be more not that it's still a
30:28
Speaker 1: reality based thing, but I think that there's a spectrum
30:31
Speaker 1: of almost like emotional resilience, like the things that he
30:34
Speaker 1: feels very upset and bothered by. I just don't feel
30:38
Speaker 1: upset and bothered by. And so I think that I
30:41
Speaker 1: tend to be a less I'm happy to listen and
30:48
Speaker 1: to go into all the dark spaces, but I don't
30:52
Speaker 1: experience a lot of like dark, difficult, deep things that
30:58
Speaker 1: need to be aired every once in a while. And
31:00
Speaker 1: you bet I am talking about that at length when
31:03
Speaker 1: it comes up. But do you ever feel like there's
31:05
Speaker 1: a disconnect there where one person is on like a
31:09
Speaker 1: different level of emotional I don't know if intensity is
31:13
Speaker 1: the right word.
31:14
Speaker 2: I think that is a good word. I think emotional
31:17
Speaker 2: intensity is a good word, actually, because one thing that
31:22
Speaker 2: I have noticed with couples is if you think of
31:26
Speaker 2: emotions like a volume dial. Yeah, I think some people
31:33
Speaker 2: have their volume dial. In my mind, the volume dial
31:37
Speaker 2: should be ideally a round a five out of town,
31:41
Speaker 2: not too loud so our ear drums don't burst, but
31:45
Speaker 2: not too quiet that we can barely hear. And I
31:48
Speaker 2: do feel that people have a tendency to kind of
31:52
Speaker 2: turn their emotions up too high, and not intentionally or
31:57
Speaker 2: too low, and I think actually our past, our trauma histories,
32:02
Speaker 2: all of those things do have a role. Plus, like
32:06
Speaker 2: you said, partly our personality as well, And so even
32:13
Speaker 2: feeling our feelings too much is something to be addressed,
32:17
Speaker 2: just like feeling our feelings too briefly, too rarely, too
32:23
Speaker 2: much on mute is something to be addressed. And trying
32:27
Speaker 2: to find that healthy middle ground of allowing ourselves to feel,
32:32
Speaker 2: but not allowing the feeling to overwhelm us or be
32:35
Speaker 2: too intense. And I do think there's a learning curve
32:38
Speaker 2: to that. I would probably lean more towards your husband,
32:41
Speaker 2: where I feel things intensely for good and for bad,
32:47
Speaker 2: you know, the excitement, but also the sadness, the grief,
32:52
Speaker 2: whereas my husband, I would say, is a little bit
32:54
Speaker 2: more balanced with his emotional intensity. He's probably more on
33:01
Speaker 2: the quieter side of emotions. I'm probably more on the
33:03
Speaker 2: louder side. I'm probably a seven out of ten, he's
33:05
Speaker 2: probably a three out of ten. And so both of
33:08
Speaker 2: us kind of learning how to balance that and engage
33:13
Speaker 2: with each other in those different ways. There's a learning
33:18
Speaker 2: curve twos, and.
33:19
Speaker 1: I think it's like a tunement, right, like being able
33:23
Speaker 1: to walk into somebody else's worldview and like, see the
33:27
Speaker 1: world through their eyes and have respect for it and
33:30
Speaker 1: appreciation for it, even if it isn't necessarily your experience,
33:36
Speaker 1: right because exactly because I think that without that, that
33:39
Speaker 1: can potentially cause friction if somebody is feeling things very
33:43
Speaker 1: intensely and be like, how how can you not, you know,
33:45
Speaker 1: see this the same way, or if another person is like,
33:48
Speaker 1: I think it's probably going to be okay, and no
33:50
Speaker 1: it's not like that, that can be a misalignment that
33:53
Speaker 1: can create friction if if people are feeling misunderstood, And
33:58
Speaker 1: so that skill of attunement is really, I believe is
34:02
Speaker 1: really important.
34:04
Speaker 2: I absolutely agree with you.
34:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely learning to read them.
34:08
Speaker 2: And I wonder if attunement also leads us a little
34:14
Speaker 2: bit to the skill of empathy. I talk about having
34:18
Speaker 2: empathy as I mean, there's so many people's skills actually
34:21
Speaker 2: unpacks thirty one difference thirty one, So there's a lot.
34:26
Speaker 2: There's thirty one mini chapters, things like body language and
34:31
Speaker 2: first impressions and cool demeanor versus warm demeanor, and active
34:37
Speaker 2: listening and open ended questions and just so many different topics.
34:42
Speaker 2: But empathy, you know, being part of emotional attunement of
34:47
Speaker 2: am I able to put myself in their shoes and
34:52
Speaker 2: see life through their eyes. Because when we can develop
34:56
Speaker 2: that skill, and I really believe it's a skill because
34:59
Speaker 2: I see it with my you know, I have a
35:01
Speaker 2: girl and three boys, and one of my boys, in particular,
35:06
Speaker 2: empathy is not his natural bent. It's like he's very
35:11
Speaker 2: much in his head and his feelings, in his thoughts
35:14
Speaker 2: and not thinking, well, how might this affect her or him?
35:19
Speaker 2: So even introducing that concept to him, it's like, oh,
35:22
Speaker 2: I guess he might feel different than I feel. I
35:25
Speaker 2: guess he would see that differently, but it doesn't come
35:28
Speaker 2: naturally to him. And so when we can practice that
35:32
Speaker 2: and develop that, it opens the door for us to
35:36
Speaker 2: be able to relate to people better, to engage, better
35:39
Speaker 2: to forgive when we've been hurt, to have understanding. It
35:44
Speaker 2: just makes us better humans overall.
35:47
Speaker 1: You know, Deborah, we're gonna leave it on this cliffang
35:50
Speaker 1: or we're gonna take another super fast break, and then
35:53
Speaker 1: when we come back, I would love for you just
35:56
Speaker 1: spill the beans and talk about how we can start
36:00
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Speaker 1: com slash lhs Okay, So, Deborah. Before the break, we
39:04
Speaker 1: were talking about the importance of empathy, and the headline
39:07
Speaker 1: here is that this is a skill that can be developed.
39:12
Speaker 1: Where would somebody start?
39:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, One of my favorite stories about empathy is an
39:18
Speaker 2: AC counseling book that I read in graduate school, and
39:24
Speaker 2: the author Yallam was saying.
39:27
Speaker 1: Serving yeah, yeah.
39:30
Speaker 2: He talked about a woman who was in the car
39:33
Speaker 2: driving to college with her dad and they never saw
39:37
Speaker 2: eye to eye. Her dad was always negative and grumpy,
39:40
Speaker 2: and she just didn't understand him. And on the way
39:43
Speaker 2: to college, they were talking and he talked about how,
39:48
Speaker 2: look at this road is so awful, and look at
39:52
Speaker 2: all these this litter everywhere, and I'm just so frustrated
39:57
Speaker 2: by it and people don't pick up after themselves. And
40:00
Speaker 2: she was just like, what is he talking about? All
40:02
Speaker 2: she could see was this beautiful landscape, and she's just like,
40:07
Speaker 2: he's so negative, and that was the last straw for her.
40:11
Speaker 2: She was just like, you know what, I am done
40:13
Speaker 2: with this. I'm done with his negativity, and really pulled
40:18
Speaker 2: away from her relationship with him from that point on.
40:22
Speaker 2: Years later, he had passed away and she happened to
40:26
Speaker 2: be driving that same road, but this time she was
40:30
Speaker 2: sitting in the passenger seat where he had been, and
40:36
Speaker 2: she looked out her side of the window and there
40:39
Speaker 2: was the river full of litter and garbage and just
40:44
Speaker 2: completely disgusting and neglected. And next thing, you know, she
40:49
Speaker 2: just was filled with remorse at the thought of I
40:55
Speaker 2: never took the time to really understand him to look
41:00
Speaker 2: out his window and not just literally but figuratively the trauma,
41:06
Speaker 2: the hurt, the wounding that he had experienced that led
41:11
Speaker 2: him to the place where he is. And I always say,
41:14
Speaker 2: trauma doesn't excuse us, but it does explain us. It
41:21
Speaker 2: helps us to know where we've been through and why
41:25
Speaker 2: we might do what we do, and it helps us
41:28
Speaker 2: to know why people might do what they do. And
41:31
Speaker 2: I really believe it's that understanding of I don't necessarily
41:36
Speaker 2: agree with it, but I can see why you would
41:40
Speaker 2: feel that way. I can see why you would think
41:43
Speaker 2: that way. I can see why you would react that way.
41:46
Speaker 2: I can see why you would act that way. Because
41:49
Speaker 2: I am putting myself in your shoes. I'm choosing to
41:53
Speaker 2: look out your window for a moment and see things
41:57
Speaker 2: through your eyes, not to excuse use it, but to
42:01
Speaker 2: explain it so that I can engage with it in
42:04
Speaker 2: a healthier way. And I really believe it's a superpower,
42:08
Speaker 2: because if we could learn to do this in our relationships,
42:12
Speaker 2: we would be so much more effective, we would be
42:14
Speaker 2: so much more attuned, we would have such deeper intimacy
42:18
Speaker 2: and understanding with the people that are closest to us.
42:22
Speaker 2: Whether it's our husband, whether it's our friend, whether it's
42:26
Speaker 2: a parent. So it's really a superpower in relationships that
42:31
Speaker 2: I really think gets overlooked.
42:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, such a good one. And you know that
42:36
Speaker 1: maybe it starts with believing like nobody is wrong about
42:40
Speaker 1: the way they feel or the way they perceive things, right,
42:43
Speaker 1: you know, like as you were talking, the image, the
42:46
Speaker 1: mental image that was coming to mind is like we're
42:49
Speaker 1: all sort of walking down a tunnel, right, and the
42:53
Speaker 1: entrance of the tunnel, what we see framed in the
42:56
Speaker 1: light of day is whatever current reality is. But like
42:59
Speaker 1: we all have this history that we've been walking through
43:03
Speaker 1: over time. There's all the stuff behind us that always
43:07
Speaker 1: informs what we're seeing and how we're feeling and how
43:10
Speaker 1: we are perceiving things, and that that is always valid.
43:16
Speaker 1: And it is getting curious about someone else's tunnel and
43:20
Speaker 1: history and how they're understanding it and being open to
43:23
Speaker 1: the possibility that through their car window it actually does
43:27
Speaker 1: look different.
43:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, exactly exactly, And to seek to understand, not
43:35
Speaker 2: just be understood. And I think that's a relational skill
43:40
Speaker 2: but also a spiritual skill, you know, to learn to
43:43
Speaker 2: put somebody else. Yeah, as just as important as me,
43:50
Speaker 2: you know, to value them in the way that I
43:53
Speaker 2: value myself. That to me is not just a social,
43:58
Speaker 2: relational skill, but also spiritual one.
44:01
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Deborah, when we first started chatting prior
44:05
Speaker 1: to when we started recording, and I want to share
44:07
Speaker 1: this with my listeners, you were like, we have so
44:09
Speaker 1: much in common, and we were talking about all these
44:11
Speaker 1: different domains that have overlap. We just discovered another one
44:16
Speaker 1: I actually have or it's behind my monitor, but on
44:20
Speaker 1: my desk, a prayer card for my mother's transition with
44:24
Speaker 1: a prayer of Saint Francis that I believe you're referencing
44:28
Speaker 1: on it, and I think about that all the time.
44:30
Speaker 1: I often have it in front of me. I'm tempted
44:33
Speaker 1: to hop up and find it. But beauty really is
44:36
Speaker 1: that the goal is not to be understood. It is
44:41
Speaker 1: that we seek to understand, not necessarily to be comforted,
44:47
Speaker 1: but to bring comfort to others, and that this is
44:49
Speaker 1: how we grow. And there is a spiritual dimension of this.
44:53
Speaker 1: I mean, some people would argue that it's really the
44:56
Speaker 1: dimension of love, the definition of love.
45:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. When we were talking about ownership earlier,
45:04
Speaker 2: something came to mind to me in the Book of Matthew.
45:09
Speaker 2: In the Bible, Jesus is quoted saying, first, remove the
45:16
Speaker 2: plank from your own eye, and then you will see
45:21
Speaker 2: clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. And
45:26
Speaker 2: I think it's a verse that really applies to our
45:31
Speaker 2: interpersonal relationships. You know, not that we don't confront and
45:37
Speaker 2: correct and offer feedback, because we should. We should. It's
45:41
Speaker 2: our responsibility in the relationships that we care for, but
45:45
Speaker 2: not before we do the work in ourselves. And when
45:50
Speaker 2: we do the work, we will then see clearly to
45:54
Speaker 2: be able to remove the spec from our brother's eye,
45:58
Speaker 2: to be able to correct, to judge appropriately, to offer
46:02
Speaker 2: feedback that's coming from a healthy place. If I have
46:06
Speaker 2: a plank in my eye, you can't trust that I'm
46:09
Speaker 2: going to do a good job getting this back out.
46:11
Speaker 1: Of your eye, right.
46:13
Speaker 2: And so again, not for blame. I think sometimes people
46:17
Speaker 2: hear this and they're like, well, you're putting all the
46:19
Speaker 2: responsibility on me. No, I'm giving you the power. I'm
46:23
Speaker 2: giving you the authority. I'm giving you the control because
46:27
Speaker 2: you're the only one that can change your circumstances, and
46:30
Speaker 2: you have more authority to change your relationships than anyone
46:34
Speaker 2: else in your life, So receive that and do something
46:38
Speaker 2: with it.
46:38
Speaker 1: I love it. Yes, whether or not Christianity is your jam.
46:43
Speaker 1: That is a beautiful metaphor and a great reminder how
46:48
Speaker 1: we can all get like very hyper fixated on what
46:51
Speaker 1: other people are doing or not doing, and not always
46:55
Speaker 1: have visibility into our own opportunities for entervietment. Well, this
47:00
Speaker 1: was such a fun conversation. And so the book, the book,
47:05
Speaker 1: your work, you have a podcast. I'm sure there are
47:07
Speaker 1: so many people that are like I need more Deborah
47:10
Speaker 1: in my life. And so we only talked about a
47:13
Speaker 1: couple of things. You have thirty one skills that you
47:17
Speaker 1: go into what after another in your book People Skills.
47:22
Speaker 1: You have nine other books and a lot of other
47:25
Speaker 1: things going on, so tell us about that.
47:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, again, the book is people Skills. Your relationships are
47:31
Speaker 2: only as strong as your skills is the subtitle. And
47:35
Speaker 2: you can learn more about me and the book and
47:39
Speaker 2: the podcast talk to Me. You can find all of
47:41
Speaker 2: it at Deborah Feleeda fi L E t A. And
47:45
Speaker 2: that's also my Instagram handle. I actually love hanging out
47:48
Speaker 2: on Instagram and meeting people and nice. So if you
47:52
Speaker 2: have a question or a comment feel free to connect
47:57
Speaker 2: with me there as well.
47:58
Speaker 1: Excellent. Well, it has been such a pleasure to connect
48:03
Speaker 1: with you, hear about your work and also just kind
48:06
Speaker 1: of get to know you personally. This has been a
48:08
Speaker 1: lot of fun.
48:08
Speaker 2: Since you too. You are a lovely soul, and I've
48:12
Speaker 2: just really enjoyed chatting with you.
48:14
Speaker 1: We had some energy. This was good. We have chemistry
48:17
Speaker 1: right here.
48:18
Speaker 2: Amen. I like it.
48:32
Speaker 1: That it was such a good conversation. I like that, Deborah,
48:36
Speaker 1: that was a lot of fun, and I hope you
48:38
Speaker 1: got some fantastic takeaways from this. We talked about all
48:41
Speaker 1: kinds of different skills, strategies, ways to have more empathy,
48:46
Speaker 1: ways to respond, ways to connect, and you now have
48:50
Speaker 1: an armload of great ideas that I hope you go
48:54
Speaker 1: forth and practice now. I will also say, as a
48:59
Speaker 1: mayor marriage counselor who's been around the block a time
49:02
Speaker 1: or three, one of the things that can feel really
49:07
Speaker 1: discouraging for people who are trying to improve their relationship,
49:11
Speaker 1: and I know I've certainly experienced this, not with just
49:14
Speaker 1: my clients, but in my own life as well, is that,
49:17
Speaker 1: particularly when there have been negative patterns that have gotten repetitive,
49:23
Speaker 1: maybe if they've gotten entrenched, those can start to take
49:27
Speaker 1: on a life of their own. And what happens is
49:32
Speaker 1: that even if you try something different once twice, maybe
49:37
Speaker 1: even three times, if your partner has already decided what
49:42
Speaker 1: is happening and started developing beliefs about you or your relationship,
49:47
Speaker 1: sometimes having small new experiences in the moment isn't quite
49:53
Speaker 1: powerful enough to get their story to change. And that
49:58
Speaker 1: can be really hard because you're working at it, You're trying.
50:02
Speaker 1: You're like, why is this not creating the changes the
50:05
Speaker 1: doctor Lisa and Debra we're talking about today, am I right?
50:08
Speaker 1: So listen. That means we need a bigger boat, and
50:12
Speaker 1: that is when it is time to get some professional
50:16
Speaker 1: support for this. So what happens in couples counseling, marriage counseling,
50:21
Speaker 1: relationship coaching is let me just unpack this for you.
50:26
Speaker 1: First of all, we create an emotionally safe, feeling space
50:31
Speaker 1: for both of you, you and your partner, with a
50:37
Speaker 1: neutral third party who's here, not even for either of
50:41
Speaker 1: you as individuals. We are here for the relationship, for
50:46
Speaker 1: the space in between you and the first thing that
50:50
Speaker 1: we'll do is spend some time talking with both of
50:53
Speaker 1: you about each of your individual perspective about what is
50:57
Speaker 1: going on here, what do you perceive the other person
51:02
Speaker 1: to be saying or doing, what is making the situation
51:05
Speaker 1: feel hard for each of you in a compassionate and
51:10
Speaker 1: understanding and again very neutral feeling way, so that each
51:14
Speaker 1: of you can feel heard, respected, valued, understood. Then in
51:21
Speaker 1: the safe space and with this understanding, we can begin
51:26
Speaker 1: helping you both understand each other in a different way,
51:31
Speaker 1: understand the parts of your relationship that you feel so
51:35
Speaker 1: grateful for and appreciative of. We will talk about your strengths,
51:40
Speaker 1: We will talk about who you each are, your value systems,
51:43
Speaker 1: your hopes and goals, the things that you want, but
51:47
Speaker 1: also create the safety to talk about those vulnerable moments
51:51
Speaker 1: like what Debra was sharing. You know, the parts that
51:54
Speaker 1: do feel a little bit more painful. And if you
51:58
Speaker 1: are the person that tends to be a big feeler,
52:01
Speaker 1: will help you do this in an emotionally safe way
52:05
Speaker 1: where you don't get overwhelmed and neither does your partner,
52:08
Speaker 1: so that you can be heard and understood by them.
52:11
Speaker 1: But also if you tend to be on the more
52:14
Speaker 1: reserved end of the spectrum and it's hard to talk
52:17
Speaker 1: about your needs and feelings like we talked about here
52:19
Speaker 1: as well, Like you know that's something that I can
52:21
Speaker 1: struggle with. I'm like, oh no, it's fine. You know
52:24
Speaker 1: it's not fine. And sometimes we need a little bit
52:27
Speaker 1: of help and encouragement to really be able to talk
52:29
Speaker 1: about what's going on for us. That safe space and
52:33
Speaker 1: neutral third party will help you do that. Then we
52:37
Speaker 1: can create this new shared understanding where you and your
52:42
Speaker 1: partner can begin building bridges back to the center that
52:47
Speaker 1: take each of your perspectives into consideration to help both
52:51
Speaker 1: of you feel loved and respected in a different way.
52:55
Speaker 1: But then here's where things start to feel a little
52:58
Speaker 1: bit different at mypractices growing self is you know, not
53:03
Speaker 1: only will you be working with a licensed marriage and
53:05
Speaker 1: family therapist where this is what we do right, the
53:09
Speaker 1: therapists in my network are also coaches, so we're not
53:15
Speaker 1: just talking about stuff. Insight is step one, right, the
53:20
Speaker 1: emotional repair is step one. But just talking about things
53:25
Speaker 1: in my office isn't going to change anything long term
53:28
Speaker 1: if you're still getting into the same old fights outside here.
53:31
Speaker 1: So we have to change what you do because of
53:34
Speaker 1: the conversations and the way we handle that is not therapeutically.
53:39
Speaker 1: It's through an evidence based coaching model that helps you
53:43
Speaker 1: take the things that you're learning and understanding about yourself
53:47
Speaker 1: and your partner and then translate that into an action
53:51
Speaker 1: plan where you are very intentionally developing the skills that
53:58
Speaker 1: none of us learned. Right, we have to figure this
54:02
Speaker 1: out as we go, but in a nuanced way that
54:06
Speaker 1: is specific to your relationship, where you will feel more
54:10
Speaker 1: prepared and equipped and you will know what to do
54:13
Speaker 1: in those moments. And then step by step you'll be
54:17
Speaker 1: practicing and implementing not just to you but your partner
54:20
Speaker 1: as well. You'll be doing it together, and then bit
54:23
Speaker 1: by bit you will both be growing and developing actively
54:28
Speaker 1: the new kind of relationship that feels genuinely good for
54:32
Speaker 1: both of you. This process tends to take about twelve
54:36
Speaker 1: to sixteen weeks, depending on what's going on, but we
54:40
Speaker 1: do not keep you in there forever. Right, it's not
54:42
Speaker 1: like a four year tour. We are there for a
54:45
Speaker 1: reason to help you identify the problem, identify the solution,
54:50
Speaker 1: implement it, and then experience sustained gains over time. If
54:56
Speaker 1: that sounds good to you, you are so welcome to
54:59
Speaker 1: come and either learn more or just set up a
55:03
Speaker 1: free introductory consultation meeting to talk with one of the
55:08
Speaker 1: therapists in my network about your relationship, about what's been
55:12
Speaker 1: going on, about your hopes and goals, about what you
55:14
Speaker 1: like to get out of this. Hear what they have
55:16
Speaker 1: to say, their recommendations for you, and if it feels
55:19
Speaker 1: like a good fit on both sides, you can move forward.
55:21
Speaker 1: For there, It's so easy to do. Just come to
55:24
Speaker 1: growing self dot com, tap on the big get Connected
55:28
Speaker 1: button and we will take care of the rest. Okay.
55:31
Speaker 1: So I hope those resources and that action plan helps
55:35
Speaker 1: you move forward and then my plan. I'm going to
55:38
Speaker 1: be back in touch with you again real soon for
55:39
Speaker 1: another episode of love, Happiness and Success