Latest / The Late Debate / The Late Debate | 29 October

Transcript

The Late Debate | 29 October · The Late Debate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to The Late Debate.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Well, thanks for joining us.
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: I'm James McPherson with Caleb Bond and Danica DiGiorgio. And
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: if you think Caleb's in a good mood tonight, it's
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: because he's going to the races in Melbourne for the weekend.
• 0:15
  Speaker 4: Of course, Derby Day. It's one of the best days
• 0:18
  Speaker 4: on the calendar, actually. The best racing, you know, of
• 0:20
  Speaker 4: the whole spring carnival. You know, the Melbourne Cup, of course,
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: is a great race, but there is no better day
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: in terms of a whole card of good racing than
• 0:29
  Speaker 4: Derby Day.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: So it's a day for the purists.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: You know, I've never been to the horse racing.
• 0:32
  Speaker 5: Really?
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: You've never been to the... We've got to get you
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: to the races.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Have you been, Danika?
• 0:37
  Speaker 5: I did. I went to Melbourne Cup a couple of
• 0:38
  Speaker 5: years ago.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:39
  Speaker 6: It was my first time I'd actually ever been to
• 0:41
  Speaker 6: the races, was at Melbourne Cup.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: Well, we've got to do a team day to Randwick,
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: I reckon, one day.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: We should do it.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: We've got to get you there and induct you. I mean, well,
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: you do have a bet every now and again. But
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: not on the GGs.
• 0:53
  Speaker 5: No.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: So we'll teach you how to do things.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: I don't mind a bet on the AFL because I
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: understand AFL.
• 0:58
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: You would have to guide me on the whole thing.
• 1:00
  Speaker 6: The question is, Caleb's tie, has he chosen that for
• 1:04
  Speaker 6: the weekend?
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: Well, because it's Derby Day, it's black. Because black and
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: white is Derby.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Day, right? Oh, of course it is. What a shame.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: So I don't have to think too hard about that one.
• 1:12
  Speaker 5: There you go.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: There you go. Well, have a great time in Melbourne, Caleb.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: I won't take a leave in ties with me.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Please don't. Here's what's coming up tonight.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Why are governments around the world telling their citizens to
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: stockpile food and water for emergencies? The UK, Germany, Taiwan,
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: Japan and the US have all issued warnings. So what's
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: going on and how come nothing's been said here? The
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: eSafety Commissioner has said the government should not squander the
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: opportunity presented by the attack on Helen Haynes to impose
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: stronger internet controls. Talk about don't let a crisis go
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: to waste. And Rolling Stone lists the top 200 rock
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: songs of the 21st century.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: We'll go through our favourites a little later in the show.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: But first, it was revealed today that one in four
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Australian soldiers would be medically unfit to deploy if war
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: broke out tomorrow, which isn't exactly reassuring. Last year, the
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Albanese government boasted that ADF numbers were the largest they'd
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: been in 25 years. Well, that's nice, but you don't
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: win a war because you have people on the payroll.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: You win a war because you can put people on
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: the battlefield. And in Senate estimates today, responding to a
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: question from Senator David Pocock, a senior ADF official admitted.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: this.
• 2:22
  Speaker 7: I've been told that under the current contract with Bupa,
• 2:27
  Speaker 7: there are a high percentage of units not medically fit.
• 2:35
  Speaker 7: For example, one battalion in the NT had some 35%
• 2:39
  Speaker 7: of ADF on some form of medical restriction.
• 2:43
  Speaker 8: Senator, I can answer that now. In fact, we have
• 2:48
  Speaker 8: over 75% of the ADF are actually in a deployable
• 2:57
  Speaker 8: military employment classification.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: So if 75% of the ADF is deployable, then 25%
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: are not. Now, can I just say, if 25% of
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: an AFL club's list were medically unfit to take the
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: field on any given weekend, staff would be sacked and
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: there'd be a club-wide inquiry. But there doesn't seem much
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: concern within the ADF. So compare and contrast the breezy
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: attitude you just saw from Lieutenant General Natasha Fox with
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: the absolute determination shown by U.S. Secretary of War Pete
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Hegseth to make sure the American military is one that
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: they can be proud of.
• 3:32
  Speaker 9: We are no longer the woke department or the weak department.
• 3:37
  Speaker 9: Simple translation of that, no fatties, no trannies, no beardos,
• 3:42
  Speaker 9: no weirdos, no wimps, no radicals, just warriors. Just tough, ready,
• 3:50
  Speaker 9: committed troops. The War Department, as you know, is colorblind,
• 3:56
  Speaker 9: gender neutral, and merit-based. Or, as the president likes to
• 4:00
  Speaker 9: say to me, Pete, central casting.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I want central casting.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: Meanwhile, in Australia, with a deteriorating security environment, one in
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: four ADF staff are out of action.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: This should be an absolute scandal, I reckon. Or am
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I overreacting, Danika?
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: No, you're absolutely not overreacting.
• 4:19
  Speaker 6: Do you think that Xi Jinping has got one quarter
• 4:21
  Speaker 6: of his army out of action right now? No, I
• 4:24
  Speaker 6: would say that China's sitting here laughing at us, thinking, fantastic.
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: I mean, what would we do.
• 4:30
  Speaker 6: If China were to attack us tomorrow and our ADF
• 4:33
  Speaker 6: is not 100% ready to go, what, we're going to
• 4:36
  Speaker 6: send a quarter of our troops out when they're unfit
• 4:41
  Speaker 6: to do so just because we need people on the field.
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: To defend this country? How on earth did we get here?
• 4:48
  Speaker 6: And it's been something that a lot of experts have
• 4:50
  Speaker 6: been warning about for some time, that we are in
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: a crisis with our ADF. It started with the recruitment crisis,
• 4:57
  Speaker 6: as you mentioned, though Labor seems to think that the
• 4:59
  Speaker 6: recruitment is back up. Then there were the gender requirements.
• 5:05
  Speaker 6: When you put on your entry requirements, you can just
• 5:08
  Speaker 6: select what you are.
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: Are you a man, woman? Are you an ex? What
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: are you? You can be anything you like.
• 5:14
  Speaker 6: Then we're selling off our military assets at the moment
• 5:17
  Speaker 6: at a time where we probably need our military assets
• 5:21
  Speaker 6: the most. We have shown the world what we do
• 5:24
  Speaker 6: to our veterans because of the Ben Robert Smith saga.
• 5:29
  Speaker 6: And the other issue that we've encountered in the last
• 5:31
  Speaker 6: couple of weeks is that the Navy's two largest warships
• 5:34
  Speaker 6: are currently sidelined because of propulsion issues. So, again, we
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: are unfit to purpose and I really worry that history
• 5:45
  Speaker 6: is going to judge us very harshly.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: How can you have a quarter of the.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: ADF not deployable.
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: And as David Pocock says there, he's aware of a
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: battalion in the Northern Territory where 35%.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Of the members are not deployable.
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: Now, of course, we're operating in a world at the
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: moment where there's sort of no imminent threat of people
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: needing to be deployed, but that should be no reason
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: that we're not ready to go if and when that happens.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: And I understand that there will be a level of
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: people who are unfit at any given time, injuries happen
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: in the course of work or life or whatever. I mean,
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: that's the same in every single workplace. We have to
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: understand that that is the case. But 25% would seem
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: to me... to be an extremely high number. Now, if
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: there are people who are in a permanent state that
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: would prevent them from being deployed, either you find them
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: another job in the ADF that doesn't require deployment or
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: you get someone else. I just don't see how this
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: could possibly be the case. Now, if the suggestion is,
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: as Mr Pocock seems to be drawing there, that there
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: are issues with contractors that the government is using for
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: health care, etc., they need to be getting on top
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: of that now. I mean, if it's, you know, we've
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: got people who need treatment that they're not receiving or
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: they're not receiving a level of treatment that would get
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: them back to.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: A deployable level.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: I mean, for goodness sake, of all the things that
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: the government spends money on, one thing that I'm quite
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: comfortable spending money on is defence. And, in fact, we
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: should be spending more on defence. We've got all these
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: other things that the government spends money on. We've got
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: great issues with government spending going through the roof. but
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: one place where they should spend more money is defence.
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: Clearly there is a problem in terms of these people
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: and being healthy enough to go out and be deployable,
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: and the fact that the ADF and the government are
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: not looking at that and going, we've got a problem here,
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: I just find staggering. I mean, trying to justify it, but, oh, well,
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: you know, more than 75% are deployable, so that's good.
• 7:51
  Speaker 6: But you look at what Donald Trump has done in
• 7:54
  Speaker 6: two years in office. The Department of Defence was quickly
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: renamed to the Department of War He put Pete Hegseth
• 8:01
  Speaker 6: in front of that department, made him the Secretary of War.
• 8:05
  Speaker 6: They are taking a no-nonsense approach. I mean, that is
• 8:08
  Speaker 6: all it took, that speech by Pete Hegseth. No fatties,
• 8:12
  Speaker 6: no trannies. They want the best people ready to go.
• 8:15
  Speaker 6: And when it comes to defence, when it comes to
• 8:17
  Speaker 6: protecting us, protecting our civilisation, who we are... We need
• 8:21
  Speaker 6: our best people on the battlefield. So spare me the
• 8:24
  Speaker 6: woke crap that we keep hearing. We need our best
• 8:27
  Speaker 6: on field. And it would be wise for us, I think,
• 8:29
  Speaker 6: to take that approach in this country. It's not about, listen,
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: I don't care, you know, if you are who you are,
• 8:36
  Speaker 6: as long as you are the best person to be
• 8:38
  Speaker 6: on the field.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: Well, Elbow keeps talking about, you know, we do everything
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: within the national interest. And I don't think you get,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: as you said, Caleb, more in the national interest than
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: your Defence Force does. And my fear is that 25%
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: of the ADF unable to be deployed because of medical issues,
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: excuse me, is symptomatic of the general state of affairs
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: within our military, whether it's recruitment, procurement, budget, morale, you
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: name it. On every level, it seems we're falling short.
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: And the lack of regard, I think, to some degree
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: that this government has had, particularly for veterans.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you look at the.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: the quibbling over, you know, how much money you could
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: have in terms of a budget for allied health services, right?
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: That's right.
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: We're talking about people who, when they are deployed, often
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: come back with mental health issues, they come back with
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: all sorts of physical problems. Of course they need allied
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: health services and we're quibbling over money.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: For our veterans. It is just astounding.
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: But while we are talking about issues of national security,
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: it would seem that there is something that's been on
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: the mind of a few governments around.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: The world lately.
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: Yes, they are asking don't they know it's the end
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: of the world because you've got all these governments now
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: coming out and telling people that they need to prepare
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: for something to go wrong Now, you might have seen
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: recently the UK came out and was telling people, the
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: Prime Minister there, Andy Burnham, telling people that they needed
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: to prepare and have baked beans and all sorts of supplies.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: On the go.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: But they're not the only government that has come out
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: in the last couple of months. You've got the UK,
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: as I just said, Japan... is now telling people to
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: have supplies ready for up.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: To three days.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: Germany is telling people to have supplies for up to
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: 10 days. Taiwan is now telling people to prepare security kits.
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: The US government, through one of its websites, is encouraging
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: people to have emergency kits prepared. on the go, it's
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: a bit strange, isn't it? And it was particularly the
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: UK that I think was the odd one out in particular.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Take a look. This is the Prime Minister, Andy Burnham.
• 10:51
  Speaker 10: But it's about just taking sensible measures to have enough
• 10:55
  Speaker 10: in the House to tide you over should there be
• 10:58
  Speaker 10: a difficult situation. Yeah, I just will, I'll stick to
• 11:02
  Speaker 10: the basics, I think. I do like my beans, so
• 11:06
  Speaker 10: I'll have plenty of those in the cupboard and soup.
• 11:09
  Speaker 10: I think those are the kind of things that I
• 11:11
  Speaker 10: would recommend people to have, as well as twiglets. I'm
• 11:14
  Speaker 10: not sure I can get by for too long without those.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Where has all of this come from?
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: What the heck was that? Where is this?
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Why are we now being told, like, we've got to
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: prep for doomsday or something?
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: You know what's funny about that is in the UK,
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: the Prime Minister there saying, you know, he'd stock up
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: on beans.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: You know what they're running short of now?
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: Beans?
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Toilet paper.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they are.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: There's a shortage.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: It's like COVID all over again because people are stocking.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Up on beans and toilet paper, which... Makes sense. There's
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: a couple of problems with this, right? Firstly.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: One follows the other.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: you' ve got.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: Panic buying in the UK, and why wouldn't people panic
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: when the government's saying.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, Wes Streeting, the UK.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Defence Secretary, said that citizens need to be ready for
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: war within 1,000 days. He also said there's natural disasters,
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: there's potential cyber attacks, et cetera, et cetera.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: So people are fearing what does.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: The government know that they're giving us these instructions. Then
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: you've got anxiety related to that. But on the flip side,
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: I think you can also run the risk of, you know,
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: the boy who cried wolf and creating apathy within your citizenry,
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: because when the government is a little bit unclear about
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: what the specific threat is. Taiwan, I can understand. They
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: should be ready all the time because China is an
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: imminent threat. Japan, I suppose you have earthquakes and the
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: like there. But the UK, the United States, even the
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: EU has issued some warnings of late, and Germany.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: But they're nebulous.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: They're not specific, which I think runs the risk of
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: making people a bit blasé about it.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: And not paying too much attention.
• 12:56
  Speaker 6: The UK has even raised the age of conscription to 65.
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: In the last couple of weeks alone.
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: But if you're not prepared to tell people what war
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: is coming, what are they, what's the war? Don't just
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: make people panic, say we've got 1,000 days or whatever
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: it is to get ourselves together when you're not actually
• 13:16
  Speaker 6: going to be specific. What are we preparing for? What
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: do we need to know? Don't create this unnecessary anxiety.
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: And then the other issue is, Are people supposed to
• 13:26
  Speaker 6: sign up then? Are they going to be prepared to
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: fight for their country? But how can you possibly sign
• 13:32
  Speaker 6: up and be prepared to fight when you don't know
• 13:35
  Speaker 6: what you're fighting for? And I would say that there
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: are a lot of domestic issues right now that are
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: way more important.
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: I mean, you look what's happening over in the UK.
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: They've got a migration disaster happening. So I don't really
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: think that young people who are indeed signing up know
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: what they're fighting for anymore.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: The other disconnect was, At the same time that Andy Burnham,
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: the UK Prime Minister, is talking about, you know, we
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: need to prepare, make sure you've got rations, there's an
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: emergency coming, he was on Gogglebox. And at the same
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: time that he was on Gogglebox, the very same night,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: I believe, Prince William.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Was on The Graham Norton Show. So you've got.
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: That's all right. What's wrong with The Graham Norton Show
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: being on The Graham Norton Show?
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Nothing.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: It's just mixed messages, isn't it? Prepare for war!
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, we're on a reality TV show or on a
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: talk show laughing and doing comedy.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't think.
• 14:22
  Speaker 6: No, look, I think for Andy Burnham that's probably a mishap, yes,
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: probably not the best PR if you're going to make
• 14:28
  Speaker 6: a big announcement, but I don't think that Prince William
• 14:30
  Speaker 6: appearing on the Graham Norton show would be an issue.
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: At the time.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: It just seems a bit jarring on the one hand.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: You know, things are really serious and on the other hand,
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: our national leadership are doing comedy shows on the telly.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: The timing is on. And I just don't understand. Like,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: if there is a problem, just tell us what the
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: problem is. Yeah.
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: And if the issue is, which is probably most likely,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: that all the warnings have been that, you know, you
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: should be prepared for war with China by 2030, just.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Tell us that's the case.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: But, of course, they're too scared to say that that
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: is actually the case. Because, you know, countries like Australia
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: and the UK and whatever... You know, they don't want
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: to spook the Chinese too much because when the Chinese
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: hear that people in Western countries are being advised on
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: the basis of a potential war with China that they
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: should stock up on baked beans and toilet paper, And
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: what do they do? They turn around and do what
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: they did to us during COVID when we dared to
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: ask the question about the origins of the disease. And
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: they say, oh, well, we'll cut off this and we'll
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: cut off that and whatever. So they're dancing around what
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: they should really be saying is we believe that there
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: may be conflict with China in the coming years.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Just tell us what the truth is.
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: Look, I'm sure the handsome man from Australia will solve
• 15:44
  Speaker 6: all the problems, won't he?
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Well, in the UK and Japan and Taiwan, they're telling
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: citizens to get ready. Maybe the Australian government could tell
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: our ADF guys to get ready.
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: Well, maybe that might be a good idea. Absolutely. No, exactly.
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: Well, look, the generational divide when it comes to migration
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: is widening with more and more younger people supporting the
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: current rate of migration in Australia. A new survey has
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: found that older Australians were the most critical of migrant levels,
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: so 72% of pre-boomers, that's those born before 1945, as
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: you can see there, 72% believe.
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: It is too high.
• 16:22
  Speaker 6: Baby boomers, 72%, and those in Gen X, also at 72%.
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: But look at the difference when it comes to the
• 16:29
  Speaker 6: next generation. 54% of Gen Z and 49% of millennials
• 16:35
  Speaker 6: say that the nation has the right balance compared to 24%
• 16:39
  Speaker 6: of boomers and just 33% of Gen Zers.
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: So firstly, I'll make a few comments.
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: Firstly, more than half of the country believes that migration
• 16:48
  Speaker 6: is too high. We've known that, we've seen that in
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: consecutive surveys, but we know that Labor is not listening
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: when it comes to it. Now, Tony Burke released his
• 16:56
  Speaker 6: attempt at a migration policy about two months ago as well.
• 17:00
  Speaker 6: But the problem is that net overseas migration rate is
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: still too high and it's not forecast to come down
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: until after the next election. Surprise, surprise, when Labor certainly
• 17:11
  Speaker 6: needs help from a lot of seats. But that generational divide,
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: and again, this is a trend that we are seeing
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: over time, but clearly it is becoming more stark. And
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: what baffles me is that Gen Z are the ones
• 17:24
  Speaker 6: that do complain the most that they can't enter the
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: housing market, that they're struggling to get into the property market,
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: but are not willing to see migration as a factor
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: in it.
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: And I was thinking to myself, why would that be?
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: And all I can put it down to is that
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: this generation has been brought up in a very multicultural
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: society and one where they have been taught Don't speak
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: up about multiculturalism. Don't say anything like that because you
• 17:50
  Speaker 6: will be called a racist or a bigot. And that
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: has been something that has been indoctrinated over time. Yet
• 17:56
  Speaker 6: this is the generation that want to enter the housing
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: market so that the divide is becoming more and more stark.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: I think you're spot on with the education system because
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: I think the younger generation just looks for a different
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: moral prism to the rest of us. They've been educated
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: to believe diversity is always good, no matter what the topic,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: diversity is good. They've been educated to think that anything
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: you say negative about other cultures is automatically racist or
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: xenophobic or bigoted. And at the same time, they've been
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: taught that our Australian culture and our European heritage is
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: something to be ashamed of. and to be apologised for.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: So it doesn't surprise me to see those figures purely
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: on the education system and the way in which that
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: younger generation have been raised. They think very differently to
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: the rest of us.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: And in addition to that, they haven't been around as long.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: So they probably, I mean, you can't miss what you
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: never knew, right? I often talk to my sons about
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: the fact, you know, when we see diversity bollards on
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: the side of the road.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Protecting pedestrians from car attacks.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: And I have to teach my 21-year-old sons that it
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: wasn't always like that. Or even when we go to
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: the airport and say to them, you know, the body
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: scanners and having to have everything checked, that didn't exist
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: when I was a kid.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: We never had that.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: That's a result of a changing population, different threats that
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: have come with the fact that we've decided we want diversity.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: And diversity brings a lot of good, but it also
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: changes the country and brings some compromises.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: I'd be interested to know if you broke it down
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: by sex, what it looked like. Because I have a
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: suspicion that women are far more likely to say that
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: they support higher migration than men, particularly when it comes
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: to younger men and women. I mean, we have seen
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: in the last few years on all the available polling
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: a skew of young men going towards the right and
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: young women going towards the left. And you talk about
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: the educational stuff. Well, young women are fundamentally those going
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: to university, et cetera, these days. They're more likely to
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: go to university than boys. They have better academic results
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: than boys, et cetera. So that connection may also exist.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: To the point you make about you can't sort of
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: mourn what you've never known, that is true. But I
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: think as you get older, you start to see some
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: of those differences. And it's not a new thing that
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: there is kind of a pipeline from being a bit
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: left-wing when you're a younger person to as you get
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: older and you have more responsibility and you might have
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: a family if you're lucky enough to own some property, whatever,
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: You've got more responsibility in the world. You start to
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: see the world more for what it is rather than
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: the idealistic ideas you had about it as.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: A young man or woman. And you start to move
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: further to the right.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: So while I would say, yes, there is probably an
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: element of education and generational differences, I'd be very surprised
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: if you surveyed exactly the same people in 30 years'
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: time whether they had the same answer as they did
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: when they answered it at the age of 25 in
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: this survey.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: And it's sort of ever been thus.
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: So it comes down to life experience.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: In a lot of aspects.
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Well, it's funny.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: My son has recently been to Europe for a month
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: and he came home and we had an interesting chat
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: in the kitchen where he said, Dad, you know some
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: of the things that you bang on about?
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: And I think, oh, gee, Dad, stop.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: He said, having travelled a bit and seen some of
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: the world, I understand what you're saying now.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: And I do.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: I think travelling overseas and seeing... different places makes you
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: appreciate what we have here.
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: Absolutely, it does.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: And changes your perspective.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: It's very easy to have never been anywhere and assume
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: a whole lot of things.
• 21:48
  Speaker 6: You know, actually, because it reminds me, I mean, this
• 21:51
  Speaker 6: is a bit off topic, but I was thinking even
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: the other day, having just returned from overseas, how lucky
• 21:56
  Speaker 6: we are in Australia, how safe we are in Australia
• 21:59
  Speaker 6: compared to overseas. If I'm sitting at a cafe in
• 22:03
  Speaker 6: Italy or in London, I would not leave my handbag
• 22:06
  Speaker 6: plonked on the table because somebody would come past and
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: nick it. Here in Australia, I wouldn't do it, but
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: I know if I put my handbag on the table,
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: no one's going to come past and swipe it.
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: No one, you wouldn't.
• 22:17
  Speaker 6: But we are the lucky country. We really are the
• 22:21
  Speaker 6: lucky country.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we are.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Well, speaking of lucky, we're very lucky to have an
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: eSafety Commissioner to keep us safe when we're online. And fortunately,
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: Julie Inman Grant is doing a wonderful job. being sarcastic,
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: of course, but she is determined to do even more
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: of a job and she's not wasting any time after
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: the attack on independent MP Helen Haynes. Julie Inman Grant
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: posted on LinkedIn over the last 24 hours, we cannot
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: squander this moment and the opportunity to examine and combat
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: all of the drivers of division and hate in our communities.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: There's no question that the online environment has nurtured and
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: propelled violent and damaging invective that can spill over into
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: real world harm. I told Senate estimates last night that
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: social media is no longer the once envisioned digital town square.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: It's become more like a gladiatorial arena. Interesting language. We
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: can't squander this moment, this moment being the moment where
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: everybody is quite upset about the attack on Helen Haynes.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: And we can't miss the opportunity to combat all the
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: drivers of division, particularly I would just have one question
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: for Julie Inman Grant, and that is, will greater censorship
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: of the internet, because no matter what they call it,
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: digital duty of care, all these motherhood statements, it amounts
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: to more control over what you can and cannot see
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: or say online. Will greater censorship of the internet stop
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: the next attack.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: On the next Helen Haynes? Yes or no? And I
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: can already tell you the answer to that. The answer
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: is no.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Nobody knows, certainly not the eSafety Commissioner, because as yet
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: we have no idea what the motive for the attack
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: on Helen Haynes was. So before the eSafety Commissioner gets
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: excited about spreading more of her tentacles across what we
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: can and can't do. Maybe before passing new laws, all
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: of our politicians and their associated bureaucrats should just hold
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: their horses and wait until we know exactly what went
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: down with Helen Haynes. And then, all right, there may
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: be some things we can do. But right now, nobody knows.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: So for her to be going online and saying, we
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: can't miss the moment, this is our opportunity. only fuels
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: more cynicism amongst the public that this particular woman and
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: her bureaucracy are not at all interested in facts or
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: keeping us safe, but rather they have an agenda. And
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: as the old saying goes, Caleb, never let a crisis
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: go to waste. That seems to be the implication, pretty clear.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Indeed.
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: And let me read you. This has just gone up
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: on The Australian a short time ago. The man accused
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: of deliberately ramming federal MP Helen Haynes was most likely
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: in a state of psychosis... and had no links to
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: any political groups or extremist ideologies, an early prison assessment
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: has revealed.
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: There you go.
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: The speed with which many people leapt to use the
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: social media excuse... Now, I don't think it was unfair
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: to initially say that it could have been a politically
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: motivated attack. I've no issue with that being raised. But
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: the speed with which people leapt to social media as
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: a concern, and the Prime Minister was chief among them.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: you know, he came out, he gave that briefing... the
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: evening of, and then went straight to the ABC studios
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: and appeared on 7.30. And in that interview, he raised
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: social media when he was talking about, you know, the
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: political temperature is too high. The next morning, Tony Burke
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: was interviewed on Radio National, I think it was. He
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: again raises social media as a concern in terms of
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: the political temperature being too high. Later that week, the
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: Prime Minister is interviewed by Hamish McDonald on the ABC
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: in Sydney. He, in that interview, after talking about Helen Haynes,
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: specifically brings up the Digital Duty of Care Bill. They
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: have been very quick to say, well, social media is
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: a big part of the problem here and we need
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: to do something about social media.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: The fact is that idiots have always existed, right? We
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: may see it more now.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: It may be more public than it's ever been because
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: people have the availability of social media to them. But
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: as someone who's worked in newsrooms, as have all of us,
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: for decades, we see the correspondence that often comes in.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: whether it be to the letters to the editor line
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: at a newspaper or the emails that we receive, whatever.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: This is not a new phenomenon of people who are
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: clearly whacked sending their whacked communications to other people. I've
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: received threats before. I'm sure others have as well. It's
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: not uncommon. And I think to blame social media for
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: it is wrong. Social media is a bit of a
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: mirror to society, and we're probably more aware of it
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: than we used to be. But I don't think restricting
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: social media or censoring the internet, basically, really does anything
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: to stop any of the problems we see in terms
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: of extremism.
• 27:31
  Speaker 6: Well, I would say that social media is a factor.
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: It is not the cause.
• 27:35
  Speaker 6: And that is the differentiation in all this. Because how
• 27:40
  Speaker 6: will Julie Inman Grant stop people who have mental health problems?
• 27:45
  Speaker 6: How will she stop people who see something and decide
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: that that's a call to arms to make themselves go
• 27:51
  Speaker 6: out and do violent acts? How will Julie Inman Grant
• 27:56
  Speaker 6: stop somebody with a perversion of Islam or with a
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: warped view of ideology. Julie Inman Grant cannot stop all
• 28:05
  Speaker 6: these things and neither can Labor.
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: It will always be there.
• 28:09
  Speaker 6: But this has always been a very sneaky push to
• 28:12
  Speaker 6: further censor the internet. Because if you look at the
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: timeline of events, there was that alleged attack, a terror
• 28:18
  Speaker 6: attack on a bishop here in Sydney about a year
• 28:20
  Speaker 6: and a half ago. Julie Inman Grant sought to shut
• 28:23
  Speaker 6: down vision of that alleged attack immediately. Then there was
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: a push to shut down violent images and other violent
• 28:30
  Speaker 6: videos on the internet. Then there was Labor's censorship bill,
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: which then got shut down.
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: Then, of course, it was the social.
• 28:38
  Speaker 6: Media ban for under 16s. And now it's the digital
• 28:42
  Speaker 6: duty of care. It is constantly reactive. But what is
• 28:46
  Speaker 6: it actually solving? Because there are still nut jobs on
• 28:50
  Speaker 6: the internet, behind their keyboards, the little keyboard warriors. Nothing
• 28:55
  Speaker 6: is going to change. And I worry that we are
• 28:57
  Speaker 6: going down the path of the UK where people are
• 29:00
  Speaker 6: being arrested, sent to jail for saying things on social
• 29:04
  Speaker 6: media over there that the government does not like.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: You know what I noted?
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: A whole lot of politicians came out after the attack
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: on Helen Haynes and said, we don't want a situation
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: in Australia where politicians can't be out and about mixing
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: with the public.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: But by the same token, nor do we want a
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: situation where Joe Citizen can't say what he wants to say,
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: look at what he wants to look at. But none
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: of the politicians made that point. It was all about, gee,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: a politician got attacked, so we've got to protect politicians.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: But we need to keep politicians able to campaign and
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: do what they do. There was very little concern for
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: the safety of citizens. by and large, despite many prostations
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: about crime and very little concern about citizens being able
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: to retain their political freedoms, particularly of speech. So it's
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: very one-way, this whole concern about protections and freedoms.
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: And it almost infers a kind of collective guilt, doesn't it?
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: Because it's saying, well, you know, all you people on
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: social media, you're helping to whip all of this up.
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: Correct.
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: When that is very much not the case. Speaking of
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: whipping things up, you've probably seen these people before. You'll remember, what,
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: a couple of months ago, you had kids coming out
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: to protest against Pauline Hanson. And we saw, I mean,
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: we want to talk about turning up the political temperature.
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: We had children on the steps of parliament houses around
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: the country basically calling for the death of Pauline Hanson,
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: saying that they would kill her if they had the
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: opportunity to do so. Well, they're planning to have another
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: protest next month. This is being organised by the high
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: school anti-capitalist group. They were originally going to do it
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: on November 11, which is, of course... Remembrance Day, after
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: this was pointed out and has been written about a
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: fair bit in the News Corp papers, they've now decided
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: they're going to have it on November 12. But they
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: deny that they ever knew that it was anything to
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: do with Remembrance Day. It was a total coincidence, they said,
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: that their protest was going to be held.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: On Remembrance Day.
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: And they're not changing it because they've been bullied into
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: doing it by the evil media.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: They say, on their social media.
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: No, they say, This is, we're moving our protest to
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: the 12th of November to put the political question back
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: where it belongs on Pauline Hanson, One Nation and the
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: dangerous normalisation of far-right politics.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Well, isn't that nice of them?
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: OK.
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: Do we really believe that when they scheduled their protest
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: for November the 11th, that they didn't know it was
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: Remembrance Day, that it was a complete.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: A coincidence. Now, there's two options here.
• 31:42
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: One is that they genuinely didn't know that November 11
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: was down, which you probably shouldn't protest.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I'm actually going with that option.
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: OK, so that's one option, which would be a complete
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: failure of the education system. Number two is that, you know,
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: these are anti-capitalist, anti-West protesters.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: who.
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: Thought it would be rather convenient to stage it on
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: November 11 because they can make another point with that
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: as well, and, you know, deliberately so, that they knew
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: what they were doing, and now backing out of it,
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: you know, oh, well, it.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Wasn't because it was November 11. I reckon that's incredibly weak.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: There's a third option that just occurred to me. They
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: knew it was November 11, was Remembrance Day. They knew
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: that they would eventually have to change it but they
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: decided if we promote it on that day, we'll get
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: maximum media coverage, then we'll move it. But by the
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: time we move it, the whole country will know this
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: is what we're doing.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: That's possible.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: That could be true. But, see, if indeed they didn't.
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: Know what was going on in terms of its Remembrance Day,
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: I mean, that is just unbelievable. But if they wanted
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: to do it on Remembrance Day because they knew it
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: would get publicity and it would make a point about
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: the West and whatever.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: You know, stick to your principles.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: If you really believe that, have your protest on Remembrance
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: Day and let's see how it goes.
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: Let's see how it goes down.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Let's see how it goes, shall we?
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: Give it a crack, give it a whirl.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: At the 11th hour, oh, well, we're going to move
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: it to November 12.
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: They don't really believe in anything. It's just, you know,
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: what is the latest thing, which is Pauline Hanson. It
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: used to be climate change, now it's Pauline Hanson.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: The thing I found.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: more crazy about this story is not so much the
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: date as the inspiration, which they claim were the riots
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: in France.
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: Exactly what I was about to say.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: Were they inspired by the arson? Were they inspired by
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: the looting? Were they inspired by, you know, flamethrowers being
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: used in... women's faces, like which part of the riots
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: inspired them to say, hey, we need a bit of
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: this on Australian streets.
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: See, what they'll probably claim is, well, look what happened
• 33:44
  Speaker 6: in France. These protests started off as nothing more than
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: student protests. We've all seen the vision. We know exactly
• 33:51
  Speaker 6: what happened. So, look, have your protest.
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: Give it a whirl. Look, I'm all for freedom of speech.
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: That's fine.
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: So you can have your protests on any other day
• 33:59
  Speaker 6: but you deliberately chose November 11 because you wanted the
• 34:02
  Speaker 6: publicity and you wanted people.
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: Talking about it and now you're backing out. Shame, shame.
• 34:07
  Speaker 6: Okay, Rolling Stone magazine has released the top 200 songs,
• 34:11
  Speaker 6: the top 200 rock songs this of the 21st century
• 34:17
  Speaker 6: so far. Now, I have been through the 200 songs
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: and I've got to say I don't even barely know
• 34:22
  Speaker 6: half of them. Three quarters of them probably. Coming in
• 34:24
  Speaker 6: at number one was the Yeah, Yeah, Yeah song Maps.
• 34:27
  Speaker 6: Do we know that one?
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: No, no, no.
• 34:29
  Speaker 6: Two was the White Stripes, Seven Nation and third Mr
• 34:32
  Speaker 6: Brightside Killers.
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: Okay, fine.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: An absolute classic.
• 34:35
  Speaker 6: So we thought we would go through the list and
• 34:37
  Speaker 6: we'll tell you all our favourites. So number 92 was Mine,
• 34:41
  Speaker 6: Holiday by Green Day.
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: Love the American Idiot album. I know that's quite controversial.
• 35:01
  Speaker 6: It was a war album protest against the US's invasion
• 35:05
  Speaker 6: of Iraq, but it's one of those generational songs. So
• 35:09
  Speaker 6: that has been my pick out of a shocking bunch.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: I'm so relieved to hear that neither of you really
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: knew many of the songs because when I was looking
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: at this this afternoon, I thought I'm going to get
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: roasted on the late debate tonight as you guys mock
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: me for not knowing any of these songs because I
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: went number one, number two, number three, number four, number five.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: I got up to number 22 before I knew any
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: of these songs. So my favourite is just the first
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: one I knew. You can't go past U2. It's a
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: beautiful day And there were no Billy Joel songs to
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: pick from.
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: Well, look, I've actually gone outside of the list because
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: I think that we need justice for one of the
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: greatest rock artists of all time, Mark Knopfler, who, of course,
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: was in Dire Straits but did solo work this century.
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: So I reckon it should have been in there, the
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: Trollerman song.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: MUSIC PLAYS.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, how can you not have Mark Knopfler?
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: What was that?
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: But pick a song that was in the list.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: And that wasn't rock. That was like folk music.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: That's folk rock.
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: No, no, no. We're talking rock. You've completely missed the
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: memo on this. So go ahead.
• 36:32
  Speaker 6: So pick something from the top two, hun, from the
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: alleged Rolling Stones.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I can't remember. It was all garbage.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I would have put Piano Man in there if I'd
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: known we were just choosing whatever song.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: But Piano Man wasn't in this century. It's got to
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: be from this century.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: It was in my century.
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: So James is confused by the centuries. Caleb's missed the
• 36:49
  Speaker 6: memo about the task at hand tonight.
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: So this has been a waste of a topic.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, goodness.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Danica wins the late debate. I win the late.
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: Debate because I actually followed the instructions tonight.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: All right, we're going to go to a break.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: When we come back, we'll look at the papers, including
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: an incredible story. Australia's self-declared ISIS commander is released from
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: prison while Tony Burke is accused.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Of sitting on his hands those days.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: I think it's pretty safe to say that Treasurer Jim
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: Chalmers is not a massive fan of the Daily Telegraph, Caleb.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: I think that would be a very good bet, James,
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: better than any bet that I'll be having on the weekend.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: But on the front of the Daily.
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Telegraph, it says, rate work, Jim, exclusive Treasurer's $ 86 billion
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: spend-a-thon fuels Cup Day carnage for families. Jim Chalmers' spending
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: addiction has cost taxpayers $ 86 billion since Labor came to power,
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: compounding the nation's interest bill... and stoking inflation, which is
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: set to deliver another rate rise on Melbourne Cup Day.
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: The Business Council of Australia is pleading for Labor to
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: end its rampant spending. An extra $ 86 billion.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: It's a good headline.
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: It's a very good headline.
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: It is an excellent headline. Another story on the front
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: of The Telegraph tomorrow. ISIS commander set free, it says,
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: exclusive here from my good friend Suzanne Giuliani. Home Affairs
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: has been accused of sitting on its hands after failing
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: to keep self-declared Australian ISIS commander Isaac El-Mattari, who has
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: links to Bondi gunman Naveed Akram, behind bars. It comes
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: after the AFP was yesterday granted an interim control order
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: for El-Mattari in the federal court. He'll be released on Sunday.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: How would... are we not keeping this guy behind bars?
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: And there's a mechanism for Tony Burke to apply to
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: the court to keep him behind bars for another five
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: years based on the circumstances, which he's chosen for reasons
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: unknown not to exercise.
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: Well, I mean, what has Tony Burke ever done? Realistically,
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: I'm baffled by this one. Let's take a look at
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: the Australian newspaper. Urgent audit is answer for Albanese charmers spending.
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: It's an exclusive.
• 39:04
  Speaker 6: A commission of audit into the nation's finances is needed
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: immediately to deal with high inflationary government spending and a
• 39:11
  Speaker 6: lack of commitment to save more than spend. The former
• 39:14
  Speaker 6: chief executive and independent commissioners of the country's last probe
• 39:17
  Speaker 6: warned Anthony Albanese on Thursday followed Jim Chalmers in refusing
• 39:21
  Speaker 6: to commit to making net savings in the upcoming mid-year
• 39:24
  Speaker 6: budget update, despite government spending as a percentage of GDP
• 39:27
  Speaker 6: reaching a 40-year high outside.
• 39:30
  Speaker 5: The pandemic.
• 39:31
  Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I mean, I'm actually surprised, to be honest,
• 39:33
  Speaker 6: that there hasn't been an audit so far into government spending,
• 39:36
  Speaker 6: given the amount of warnings that Chalmers and co have had.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: The other funny thing about the front page of The Australian,
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: you would have known that John Howard and Peter Costello
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: both have called for Chalmers to do more, and Anthony
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: Albanese sort of waved them away as being partisan commentators.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: So the Aussies said a few partisan critiques of ALP
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: economic management, but, of course, they've got Bill Kelty, former
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: ACTU secretary, Chris Minns, the New South Wales Labor Premier,
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: and a former Albanese economic adviser. So if you want
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: to talk about, wow, they're just partisan commentators, there's a
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: few from Elbow's own side who are not happy about that.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: The Treasurer's work.
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: I suppose the issue is why would you call an
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: audit into yourself? You know, you're in charge of the books.
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: You don't want people to know what's actually in.
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: Them, right?
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: Front page of the NT News, Terror Plot reads the headline,
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: Counter-terrorism police have arrested and charged a Northern Territory teenager...
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: alleging he was planning an attack at a school or
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: place of worship. According to the report, the young person
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: charged is 15 years old and he's been charged with
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: collecting documents to commit a terrorist act, possessing firearms and
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: explosive manufacturing materials.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: So that case is ongoing and pretty concerning.
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely. It is certainly a worry.
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: It kind of goes back to the story on the
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: front of the Telegraph, doesn't it? I mean, why would
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: we not be seeking to lock up people who we know?
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: And I'm not suggesting that he is linked to this case,
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: but people who we know. I mean, if you declare
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: yourself to be the leader of ISIS in Australia, we
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: have cases like this that pop up of young people
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: who seem to want to be involved in terrorism, allegedly.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: Why would we not do everything in our power to
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: stop that from potentially happening? On the front of the
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: Herald Sun... Tomorrow, it's got an exclusive here from Ryan Burke.
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: No more secrets. One Nation has challenged the Coalition and
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: Labor to lift the veil of secrecy in Victoria with
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: a bold plan to make all Cabinet documents public within
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: weeks of decisions being made. Under the policy, records from
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: the Alan Andrews Carroll era would be released within 100 days.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Days of the election.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: Cabinet papers are usually kept for decades, aren't they? This
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: would be quite an extraordinary change of pace if they
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: were to be released within weeks. But apart from where
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: there is, you know, commercial in confidence information. In general,
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: I don't mind the argument.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: I can imagine the documents that would be released, there'd
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: be massive black Nico pen right through them, so you'd
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: get nothing but a few words, I think. But who's
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: going to argue with greater transparency?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Indeed.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: That's going to be a winner, I'm sure, with most people.
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: Let's take a look at the Cairns Post. This is
• 42:19
  Speaker 6: quite a harrowing story. Mercy for mum who broke son's leg.
• 42:25
  Speaker 6: A young refugee mother who fled extreme violence overseas has
• 42:29
  Speaker 6: been spared jail... After breaking her six-year-old son's leg in
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: what was described as normalised corporal punishment, the refugee was traumatised,
• 42:40
  Speaker 6: according to the court.
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: That is not what we do in this country. It's
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: not what we do.
• 42:50
  Speaker 7: No.
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: We don't.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: We've talked about smacking on this program before and I
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: am fine with smacking misbehaving kids, but.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: To break a kid's leg as corporal punishment?
• 43:02
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: No-one in their right mind touches a child with such
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: force that you break a child's leg.
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: And it's normalised, you know?
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: And it's, again, you know, a case of a court saying, oh, well,
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: you know, because there's something else that went wrong in
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: your life, therefore there's some sort of mitigating factor in
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: this crime that you committed. If you break a kid's leg, Like,
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: I don't think there's much of an excuse for that.
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: No.
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: You can't say, oh, well, you know, it was corporal
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: punishment that had been normalised, you were traumatised by violence
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: that you experienced.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: You don't inflict that upon your own child.
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: In fact, if you've suffered violence yourself, surely that should
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: encourage you even more, if you've come here as a refugee,
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: to say, I don't do that to my child.
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: Well, you'd think that, but, again, you know, diversity is
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: our strength, apparently, so... Yeah.
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: All right, front page of tomorrow's Adelaide Advertiser.
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: By the way, every News Corp paper pretty much has
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: got the AFL fixture for 2027, which I was very
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: excited to read. North Melbourne has the 16th hardest fixture,
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: which means we've got about the third easiest.
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: There you go. And how many Thursday or Friday night
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: games do you get?
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, we don't have a single Thursday night game.
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: That's actually not bad. It means you can watch them.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: You don't have to worry about going home afterwards.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: For the replay.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: Sydney Swans, I think, have got nine Thursday night games.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: So you and I are not getting to the football
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: much next year unless we just leave the league and
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: do the late debate on our own.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Not a bad idea and probably something you'd prefer.
• 44:30
  Speaker 5: No, there's a team of three here, gentlemen.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: You're a good team player. All right, front page of
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: the advertiser. Here's the headline. 26 dead children.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Shock revelation.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Dozens of kids known to the Department for Child Protection lost.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: Three children died in state care in the past financial year,
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: while a further 23 who had contact with the child
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: protection system also died, the Department for Child Protection's annual
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: report reveals. It attributes the three deaths of children in
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: care to medical complications. In 25-26, a further 23 children
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: who were not in state care but had contact with
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: the child protection system in the previous 12 months also died.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: At least nine of those deaths were linked to congenital
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: or medical issues. And a separate shocking report from the
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: state's Guardian for Children says more than 300 children from
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: toddlers to teens died were allegedly sexually abused last financial
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: year after they were taken into state care to keep
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: them safe.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: Safe. That is a shocking story.
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: That is just.
• 45:34
  Speaker 6: I mean, we're hearing so many awful stories when it
• 45:37
  Speaker 6: comes to child protection in this country right now.
• 45:40
  Speaker 5: There is clearly a lot of errors, a lot of faults. Indeed.
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: And very quickly, before we get to a break, on
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: the front of the Mercury down in Tassie tomorrow, the
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: new Lord Mayor, would you believe it, is Charles Woolley.
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: Veteran journalist Charles Woolley has been elected Lord Mayor of Hobart,
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: as counting continues in the 2026 local government elections.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: The former 60 Minutes reporter.
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: defeated sitting councillor Bill Harvey by 2,636 votes after preferences,
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: securing 55.04% of the final ballot after a tense day
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: of counting. So there's hope for us yet if we
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: ever get sacked, James.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Alright, we're going to go to a break.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: When we get back, there's a test cricket game going
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: on in South Africa. Good crowd, though not everybody is
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: supposed to be watching. We'll show you some people who
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: were caught out watching when they ought not have been
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: after this. We were talking on last night's program about
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: all the recycling bins that we get lumped with these days. Well,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: in North Wales, there's a village where locals have 12
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: different bins they have to sort their rubbish into. Ellen Walker,
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: who's a 72-year-old resident of the county, told the local paper,
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: just look at this. pointing at the collection of bins
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: he's having to use. One for paper, one for glass,
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: one for metal, one for plastic, blue bags for cardboard.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: Then there's the food caddy, which I don't use, a
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: non-recyclables bin, a garden waste bin. I could go on.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: If he had gone on, he'd talk about the fact
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: there's a nappy bin, a textiles bin. Another local told
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: The Times you need a degree in recycling just to
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: put the rubbish out. When a Labor councillor was asked
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: what he thought about residents complaining, he told The Times,
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: and I quote.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: They're lazy, they're lazy, they're lazy. End quote.
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: That's the future.
• 47:25
  Speaker 6: Who has time for all that palaver? You know what,
• 47:27
  Speaker 6: I would just chuck it into the wine and I
• 47:29
  Speaker 6: wouldn't care. I would walk away and say, stuff you all,
• 47:31
  Speaker 6: I haven't got time for this nonsense.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: You're lazy, you're lazy, you're lazy.
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: Lazy, there you go. There you go.
• 47:36
  Speaker 6: Well, you know who might be lazy? These two office
• 47:38
  Speaker 6: workers have gone viral. They were watching the South African.
• 47:42
  Speaker 6: Australian test from their officers in Cape Town, which overlooked
• 47:46
  Speaker 6: the stadium when they got caught on camera.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Sorry, boys.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: We should pull out and establish where they are.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: They are officers that are on the ground.
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: Oh, let them watch, I say. You know, it's like
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: their own Coldplay kiss cam moment, isn't it?
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: If they'd just sat there, it wouldn't have gone viral,
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: but because they reacted like that, everyone around the world
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: has seen it.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, the poor buggers. Let them watch the cricket.
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: It would be un-Australian here, and I'm sure it's un-South
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: African there to tell them off for watching the cricket.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: And our next topic is about.
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: If you don't know how to do it, I'll show
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: you how to walk a dog. Apparently in San Francisco,
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: you can get paid $ 20 an hour not to walk.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: A dog, but walk a robotic dog.
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: Because there's some company down there has been trying out
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: this new robot dog and they actually want people to
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: walk around with it. to make sure that it doesn't
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: overheat or malfunction or anything. And so they're paying people
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: $ 20 an hour to walk robotic dogs.
• 49:07
  Speaker 6: Well, if anything goes pear-shaped with your cats, that could
• 49:10
  Speaker 6: be your side hustle. Not if in their death, but,
• 49:13
  Speaker 6: I mean, if, you know, they get a bit old
• 49:15
  Speaker 6: and you need to go for a walk.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Use a robot.
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: They've said you've got to be strong, though, because if
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: it malfunctions, you've got to put it in a box
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: and carry it back to the.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: Imagine that. Carry your robot dog under your arm.
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: There you go.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: That's all we've got time for tonight. Have a great weekend,
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: but don't go anywhere right now. James Morrow is hosting
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: the Rita Pennehy Show.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: That's on next. Good night.