Latest / Global Leadership Collaborative / #04: The Power of a Big Vision: Dr. Michel Kenmogne (Part 2)
Transcript
- Woody McLendon: Hi and welcome to this episode of the Global Leadership Collaborative Podcast. I'm thrilled to welcome back a dear friend and brother in the Lord and a gifted leader in the Bible translation movement, Michel Kenmogne. Michel, thanks for coming back and continuing sharing some stories of what you've learned in your leadership journey over these many years. Michel Kenmogne: Yes, thank you, Woody. It's really a pleasure for me to be back here and to continue this podcast conversation. Woody McLendon: We've had so much fun and as we've talked, there's so many things we'd love to dive into a bit more depth. And so I'm glad that you were able to join for a second episode. And who knows, maybe down the road we may have some other conversations. But today I'd like to come back. I won't go through all of the conversation we had last time. I invite those who are interested to go back and find that and listen or watch it. But I'd like to ⁓ to and dive in with Vision 2025, a real foundational organizing vision for the movement over a significant generation. I'd like you to share a bit of your reflections on that and what you've seen some of the special fruit from God's leading together in that direction. Michel Kenmogne: Wow, thank you. Thank you very much, Woody. that's really a question because I remember 1999. I ⁓ just four years into this ministry. I was not even in any leadership position at CABTAL. I was just a junior ⁓ just trying to find my way into this ministry. ⁓ our leader came back from a conference that was in Waxhaw and he came back very excitedly and saying, oh yeah, Vision 2025. was wondering what is this all about? And ⁓ it turns out that really at that conference in 1999, the leaders of SIL and Wycliffe International as the organizations were called back then, they looked at the state of Bible translation and they realized that it will take till the year 2150 for the last people group on earth to have access to God's Word, if the translation was to continue at the prevailing pace. And everybody was shocked and just said, this is unacceptable. And that is when the leaders kind of gathered and said, let us do something. Let us do whatever is possible to see that by the year 2025, there would be a translation program in progress in any language group that needs one. And that was the commitment of the group that gathered in Waxhaw in that year 1999. And you know, really with such a vision, I've realized in ⁓ as God's Word says that, ⁓ Where there is no vision, the people perish. Because I realized that this vision has gone a long way to shape my personal trajectory and service in Bible translation for the past 25 years. And it has also really impacted the whole Bible translation movement in significant ways. Just to give you a glimpse in my personal journey because I consider myself a true product of Vision 2025, so to say. Because my first leadership role which was a language programs manager, happened in year 2000, just the following year after Vision 2025. And when I took ⁓ that responsibility and starting to say, how do I go about ⁓ translation programs and so on, I realized that Vision 2025 was inviting us not to work in the traditional ways that we had known, but Vision 2025 was challenging us to consider creative ways to do the same ministry, innovative approaches, partnerships, the role of the local church, and so on and so forth. And then I started to ask myself, so what holds me from really trying any strategy that could enable us to do it better and even faster? And that is when I started to imagine how could the church be part of the translation program, not just being at the receiving end of the process, but also be part of the process as a full participant. I started to ask myself those questions and that led me to say, hey, than just planning a project in the office and go to the field to implement it, we could actually mobilize the field, mobilize the churches, mobilize the communities to be full participants in it. And that became the new way for us to do ministry in CABTAL. And just so many things that we thought about back then with the impetus, with the stimulus of Vision 2025. Maybe if I were to just tell my own story, I could spend, I could just take the rest of the time on that. But what I could say at the global level is that really we are in 2026 and when we look back, we realize that the impact of Vision 2025 has been what nobody could have imagined because just in 25 years, we have the greatest acceleration in the Bible translation ministry ⁓ with than 1400 languages God's Word for the first time. This is unprecedented and I realize this is what the Lord alone could do with us in this generation. Of course, there is still work to be done but I think there is reason for us to all pause and celebrate what God has done with that vision. Woody McLendon: Yes, it's not actually. Amen. Thank you. Well, it's it's wonderful to hear your personal reflections on even the freedom that that gave you as you were entering into your role at CABTAL and the fruit of this. And I think it is an amazing gift of God to see believers from around the world in my perspective now contributing as equals. We're collectively contributing to this global movement from the church around the world. I'm curious though, as you reflect too, what the unfinished challenges that you see before us collectively ⁓ for this work as it continues. Michel Kenmogne: Yeah, you know, when there's such a great vision, it's a bit like any revival in the church. When there is a revival, there's many conversions, there's so many things to praise the Lord about, but there's also much more stuff to take care of. And that's the same thing I think about Vision 2025. You know, this vision has been great, it has stimulated us, but actually, the vision seems to have created some new issues for us to seek to address. For example, we have been very quick at at new strategies to make Scriptures available in the languages out there around the world. ⁓ more more, it is being observed that there is a gap between Scripture availability and actual Scripture use. ⁓ And that gap tells us that we are still far away from the goal post because the goal was not just to put some Scriptures out there for the purpose of just having some Scripture translated. The goal was to see Scriptures being engaged by their recipients so that God's Word could have its transformative effect in their lives just as it had in my own life and in your own life. And we are still experiencing that gap and I think that that is really something significant that we still have to rally join forces in order to say how do we overcome that other barrier? How do we make sure that Scripture is actually being by the so that ⁓ people can ⁓ in the of their lives? Woody McLendon: I would love to dive into that topic deeper. I'm just struggling here, but we have some other questions and areas that I want to talk about. When we finished our last conversation, you were actually talking about reaching the end of your term as Executive Director of CABTAL in Cameroon in 2011. So a lot in your leadership journey has continued from that point. ⁓ you finished, did you have an idea of what would be next when you were preparing to finish and how did God open that door? Michel Kenmogne: Well, that's a very interesting question because I didn't know exactly what the Lord would do after that, the thing I had in mind was that, well if the Lord has nothing else for me to continue doing ⁓ maybe I will just go back to the field ⁓ be a linguist and just do some and help with some translations or whatever that kind of thing. But also at that time I had started something that was quite significant called the Francophone Initiative ⁓ was helping theological seminaries to have translation ⁓ courses within the curriculum of training pastors and so on. ⁓ And was wondering how do we continue to pursue that ministry? at the time I was finishing my role at CABTAL, I didn't know what would happen next. But it was interesting when Wycliffe Global Alliance out to say, hey, ⁓ we would really want to you continue to serve with the Global Alliance. And what many people may not know is that SIL reached ⁓ out to me also at time to say, hey, we are in search of an Area Director, would you consider that? And Seed Company also reached out at the time to say, hey, Michel, we would be very interested to work into having you join. And what you may not even know, Wycliffe Associates also reached out to me at the time to invite me to be able to join them. So actually, I feel like it was really the Lord encouraging me to say, hey, there's still a role for you to fill Woody McLendon: Wow. Michel Kenmogne: in this ministry. But I ended up choosing to work with the Wycliffe Global Alliance because that was a natural place for me to continue some of the things I had already been involved in like that Francophone Initiative. Woody McLendon: So was that really in terms of discernment process and I didn't know, I'm not surprised, but I didn't know that you had those many invitations from others who recognized God's call and gifting on you. But in terms of your sense discernment for that next chapter, was it really about seeing the growth of the Francophone and some of these things that were the focal point of what you felt like the Lord was calling you to in that next season? Michel Kenmogne: I think the Francophone Initiative was a part of that discernment process. ⁓ second thing is that the Global Alliance was asking me to take a role of ⁓ Area Director for Africa with specific focus on Francophone Africa. ⁓ And in that role, was going to still be responsible for the Francophone Initiative. I was still going to be kind of overseeing all the Wycliffe organizations like ANTBA in Burkina Faso, Wycliffe Benin, Wycliffe Togo, and all of those. And I was feeling like, yes with my experience as an and then Director at CABTAL, I feel like I can understand those organizations and be able to coach them. So it was somewhat congruent with my experience that far. So I felt like, yes, that makes sense. And the third thing was that the Global Alliance was asking me, yes, we want you to do that role at the level of Africa, but we would also want you to just look at the issue of language programs in the Global Alliance all around the world and think about how do we look at that going forward? So I felt like that was a significant role, not to say that the other roles were not important, but I was seeing a lot of congruence with what I had been doing that far. ⁓ And know, in my process of discernment, I'm always asking myself, if God is inviting me into a new thing, how is it connecting to how He has been leading me this far? And that is always something that I try to hold very dearly because, yeah, I don't just want to jump into something and say, oh what am I doing here? want to make sure or to have some assurance that, yes, God is guiding me, God is leading me, and He is definitely of me because, you know, for us all in leadership, we have to always be reminded that we are not leaders because we are the shepherds. Of course, people see us as shepherds but we are also the sheep following the head shepherd who is the Lord Jesus Christ himself. And he is the one who has to go before us so that we can follow him in whatever we are doing. Woody McLendon: That is so true and so powerful. And I appreciate your affirmation because I do agree that we as leaders need to model examples of being servants or followers. You know, we are sheep too, and we need the great shepherd, the Lord Jesus, to guide us. Now I'm curious what were some of the lessons learned, the things the Lord taught you during your time at CABTAL, that you were able to bring to a wider continental and even global ⁓ stage to engage with others about? Michel Kenmogne: Yeah, I think I can mention maybe two or three things there. was that I led an organization and I could understand what it means ⁓ for leaders of those ⁓ Alliance to be leading to be struggling with so many issues with partners, with ⁓ their staff, with their boards and so on. So I felt like, yes, ⁓ God has me some experience and I could come alongside them. I could coach them. I could just give them advice and help them to solve some of their problems. So was part of my lessons from CABTAL that I could take to that space. The other thing was just to help boards because for me in CABTAL, I worked very hard strengthen a board of directors that could provide governance to our organization. And I saw what difference it made for us to have a strong board and not just a strong, maybe a strong director or a strong leader. And because of that, I really worked hard to help those organizations to strengthen their boards. And we did much board training, board governance training in order to ensure that those organizations would have a solid governance backup in order to sustain those organizations. Another ⁓ that ⁓ brought that season, which ⁓ kind of from my experience with CABTAL, was some innovative approaches starting programs. ⁓ And some of I had learned by then, ⁓ and with the focus that the Global Alliance was having at that time around missiological reflection, I started to ask how do we understand the work of Bible translation missiologically? In other ways, how does Bible translation fit within the plans and purposes of God in the world? And that a big question which caused me to interact more with ⁓ the at the Global Alliance and people felt like, yes, that's a very important question. And as we explored that, ⁓ I up being asked to ⁓ lead team that developed what was known as the Bible Translation Philosophy Statement, which became quite foundational document, not for the Global Alliance but for the Bible translation movement, really because it was about thinking about how do we understand translation and just realizing it's not just a linguistic exercise. It is actually at the heart of what God does in order to connect with people and to realize that ⁓ the way we go about translation is not just with our own strategies and mean translation even invites us to be true disciples of Jesus, connecting with Him because we realize that the Word that we read has been has been inspired by the Spirit, then the translation of it also must be inspired by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, we understood that some of the principles of translation did not just have to do with the translation principles per se, but it also had to do with the translator himself, because his relationship with the Lord and with the Holy Spirit would be critical to a good translation. Anyway, that document is out there and continues to serve some purposes until this day and I feel like these were some of the things that continue to give me joy when I look back to those days of ministry. Woody McLendon: Well, thank you. And that those are significant reflections. And I appreciate how God had gifted you and your willingness to step in to reflect about the deeper purposes of the translation. I want to touch on a topic here because it'll lead into the next segment. And that is a bit about SIL and the Wycliffe Global Alliance. You've worked in both. You worked alongside SIL in Cameroon, you were working in the Alliance at the Africa Area. Talk a little bit about the roles of SIL and the Alliance that you saw in Africa, and we'll step out to a bigger question after that. Michel Kenmogne: Well, think the role of the SIL and the Alliance in Africa is quite interesting one because it's a relationship that has evolved over the years ⁓ and it from my perspective, very difficult to kind of tease those two apart because ⁓ the organizations, for the majority of them, started as NBTOs, that is National Bible Translation Organizations, which were stimulated, for the most part, by SIL. I remember in the days I joined CABTAL, was just a very fragile thing. ⁓ leaders, I some of us who joined the ministry did not really understand what was all about. But it took people from SIL to cast vision. I remember that SIL was doing of the technical stuff for CABTAL. I was the first Cameroonian fill the language program manager's role because until then it was SIL doing it. So SIL was very critical in ⁓ up the NBTOs and kind of giving them their own identity and to participate in Bible translation. ⁓ But over years, as those organizations also grew and developed, they became strong players in the field of translation and then in many countries where SIL and Wycliffe kind coexisted the question was how do we work together? How do we partner within the same country? ⁓ And that was of what I got to be involved in in Cameroon. ⁓ We had conversations how do divide the work in the field, how do we make sure that we don't compete, for example, that required us as leadership having clear conversations on our programs and priorities and strategies and so on, exchanging strategic plans, for example. We had questions around what would be the unique areas of focus of SIL and what would be the unique areas of focus of CABTAL? And in Cameroon, we were able to understand that it would really be more beneficial to the movement if SIL were to focus a bit more as a training organization, that builds capacity, whereas CABTAL would be more of an implementation organization that really mobilizes the church on the ground and carries the work. And both could partner in terms of sharing expertise and so on. And those are some of the ways that we worked in Cameroon and we've seen it also apply in many places across Africa. Woody McLendon: That's wonderful. And I appreciate the depth of that testimony. There's a there's a point that I didn't hear, but I know was a key part of your leadership at CABTAL, and that was building healthy relationships. Touch a little bit on the relational side of connections and the investments that you made to strengthen them. Michel Kenmogne: Relationships were so and the leaders of SIL who served during my eight years ⁓ as Director of CABTAL, we to build very strong With George Schultz, I'm still grieving his loss ⁓ because he was the Director of SIL in Cameroon at time I started as Director in CABTAL. And we really developed a very strong relationship because we understood that it would not make sense for us to be fighting, to be competing, whereas we are brothers the same ministry. We are all called by the Lord to serve in His Word. Why should we be fighting? ⁓ And remember even some of the things that I initiated back then, like mobilizing the communities or building vision in the church for participation in translation. I remember initially, SIL was asking me, why would you spend time and resources to do that? Would that really be, I mean, ⁓ important? And we conversations in the end they felt like, well, if that's what you feel is good, ⁓ go for it. But we to have those so that we would not be feeling like, oh no, you are the wrong partner. You don't really get it and we get it and that kind of thing. No, but we built those relationships. Later on, it was with Nelis van den Berg as the next at SIL. We also, we still built strong relationships and those friendships continue. And with, I mean, as families, my wife and their wives and so on, we remain friends and we continue. Nelis was my associate Woody McLendon: Amen. Michel Kenmogne: in SIL as Executive Director over many years and that's just ministry is all about. Woody McLendon: Amen. Amen. Well, thank you. Well, you've touched on a topic I want to lean into next. Your season of at the Alliance was actually not all. There was another chapter after that, as if that weren't enough, involving service with SIL. And in 2016, you began as the Executive Director of SIL, the first non-Western leader of an organization that was started in So a very mature organization. Tell me about that discernment journey for you and Laure Angèle as you were invited to consider that role and ultimately agreed. Michel Kenmogne: Yeah, that was a discernment and that was, ⁓ mean, one of these things that God does and you don't get it at first. Because to very transparent here when I heard that had been nominated to be a for the position of SIL Executive Director, I just felt like, well, that's very kind of some people who may have thought of me but really that's not, there's no way I can do that kind of job. And when I asked, I just said, oh yeah, thank you. That's, that's fine. But thank you very much. And that was ⁓ no. ⁓ But ⁓ interestingly, over months followed, many people encouraged me. So many people told me, Hey, Michel, we believe that you are the person for this seat to lead SIL in the next season. ⁓ And this was even some SIL leaders, people, I mean, various places and I was wondering are these people seeing something that I can't see myself? ⁓ ⁓ I heard that kind of encouragement ⁓ ⁓ just at some point, Laure and I just felt like well, Woody McLendon: Probably, yes. Michel Kenmogne: have to be obedient to the Lord. We don't know what the Lord is doing here. Already been on a journey now since we left the job with the government and so on to come into this thing. He has been leading in ways that we have not always understood it at first. So we said, well, let's stand in the process. Maybe it will, I mean, just be a way for us to witness what a process like. So we agreed to pray and to into the process ⁓ ⁓ got into it. ⁓ we were asked to submit our bios which we did. Then they did some further shortlisting and then they asked us to respond to some written interviews which we did. ⁓ after the written interviews I thought it would be I be disqualified. And they took it down to about 12 candidates or so and asked us some key ⁓ in writing which I did and I thought okay I just get out at that level. Then they took the list down to four ⁓ and interestingly surprisingly to me I was still part of the four. And I was wondering what are those guys really looking for? With the four candidates, they decided to do interviews and they interviewed each candidate for one day. And the four candidates, we didn't know each other, but later on I was told there were two colleagues from the US, from the Netherlands and myself. ⁓ And we were interviewed each ⁓ for one half by the full Board of SIL. ⁓ My interview was one afternoon. They came and it was all in the US, they picked me from my hotel and they took me to a place the whole board was gathered and ⁓ interviewed me for a whole ⁓ And because I was not really seeking the position, I was very relaxed I was telling them, look, I'm having a fun ministry with Global right now ⁓ and here are some of stuff I'm doing. not really seeking for a new job that kind of thing. ⁓ I didn't know that even with that kind of interview they would still be interested. And it turns out that for some reason ⁓ really felt that my track record my experience and some of the things I had done and even my academic training or whatsoever ⁓ all of those things what was needed in order to lead SIL. And interestingly just after that series of interviews, the board debriefed, ⁓ all came to the full agreement, ⁓ unanimous agreement of the full board that they should appoint me ⁓ the position. ⁓ when I was called a few days after the ⁓ interviews, I just arrived back home when I received a message from the board chair saying, I want to talk you. Woody McLendon: Wow. Michel Kenmogne: I was feeling like maybe he just wants to clarify something that I said during the interview and which had been confusing. But when I talked to him the next day, he said, well, the board has debriefed and the board would like you to consider accepting the position of SIL Executive Director. I said, what? That was kind of shocking. And yeah, I didn't really. Woody McLendon: Wow. Michel Kenmogne: So I just said, well, would you give me some time to process it with my wife and pray? Then they gave me, he promised to call me the next day, went back home, talked to my wife. She was shocked. She didn't know what that would mean. Our children were still, our oldest kid was, yeah, our oldest was just what, maybe 14, 15 years old. Woody McLendon: Right. That's a big change. Michel Kenmogne: And she just, I remember talking to them over dinner. The younger kids did not really understand what it meant. And my oldest just said, Dad, what does that mean? You're already doing so much. You're already traveling so much. What does that mean? I think the best thing I could say to my kids was, I don't fully understand it myself. And ⁓ I think I meant it. But we felt like, well. We didn't know what the Lord was doing, but we felt like saying yes ⁓ just the faith ⁓ to do. ⁓ I said yes, and that was my journey. Woody McLendon: Wow. Well, thank you for saying yes, because I do agree that the Lord had gifted you and called you for that season and I'm for your faithful ministry over ten years. So thank you. And I also want to ask, as you were reflecting at that season on ⁓ your background and what you were seeing, what were some of the the challenges that you saw SIL organizationally facing in that period and and how did God prepare you to engage with those? Michel Kenmogne: Yeah, I think previous season of ministry, especially with the Global Alliance, I took much interest in missiology, ⁓ understanding that ⁓ is not just the science of studying mission. ⁓ But really, realizing that mission is the heartbeat of God and that mission is something that we don't just do on our own but it's about aligning with what God himself is doing. So I started to say, ⁓ if that is really what God has been impressing on me, how do I view SIL today and how is SIL participating, aligning with what God is doing around the world? And it was at that time that that I started to reflect and realize that, are some of the things I certainly shared during the interview process. I was clearly realizing that ⁓ had been a very successful pioneering organization in the Bible translation movement in the 20th century ⁓ a ⁓ strong commitment to leverage the of languages in order to provide opportunities for the people who use the minority languages to be able to reconcile with God and to find opportunities for education and to find opportunities just to flourish in all aspects of their lives. And SIL had done that excellently well. And I was also noticing that SIL had really operated in the 20th century within the prevailing mission paradigm which was essentially a paradigm of mission from the West to the rest of the world. But in the 21st century, the world was changing very fast. The church in the Global South was growing. The church in some parts of the Global North was kind of shrinking and not sending as many people as they used to do some decades back. And I was feeling like, yes, SIL has been very much aligned with what God was doing in the 20th century. How would SIL be still aligned with what God is doing in the 21st century? And it became very clear to me that the need for SIL in that season was a realignment with the paradigm of mission in the 21st century, which had to do with engaging and working alongside the global church which had to do with not operating in a paradigm just of the West to the Rest. Not that are not ⁓ in the ministry but that ⁓ as Westerners are welcome there is also room for people from Latin America, from Asia, from Africa, and we all are invited. And how would SIL provide the space for all of those people to be able to serve joyfully, and releasing their best in order to still advance the same mission? was feeling like this certainly what God wants me to lead into. ⁓ And was the essence of my, ⁓ the in which I led SIL those 10 years. Woody McLendon: You began your leadership service in SIL kind of at the midway point of Vision 2025. And I observed personally there were this acceleration and growth created some tensions the historic relationships and some challenges. So you inherited decisions others had made. And we talked in our last conversation about decision making, some of which created some tensions. How did you discern the things that were going to be important to address and nurture relationships that opened opportunities for healthy direction from some of those things that were under stress? Michel Kenmogne: I believe discernment is so ⁓ And as you say, I stepped in ⁓ when Vision 2025 had been running for 15 years ⁓ and so much had been and so much good stuff was going on. But it also turned out that there had been some stress and some people have felt some frustrations in the process of pursuing the vision. And that's why I realized that we had to step back and just reflect a bit. Because I realized that there were a number of things for which people were frustrated. And they were not frustrated because those things were bad or wrong. They were frustrated probably with the way that those things were brought. And you know, when you have a vision like Vision 2025, which calls for some sense of urgency. Urgency easily can often cause us to get some kind of a frenetic mode ⁓ we just want to push ⁓ get things ⁓ And in the process, as we work with people, especially as we work with knowledge workers, how do we make sure that they are on board and they continue to flourish and to feel like they are fully part of where we're going? And this is where realized that some of the changes that we were trying to pursue as an organization were not just ⁓ changes to be ⁓ by leaders. ⁓ of those changes had to really the people themselves reflecting and owning those decisions and directions so that they could commit to their pursuit. And if there's only one thing that I did, I don't think that I changed anything that SIL was already doing, but I encouraged, I tried to set up processes in order to help people own the conversations and own the decisions that we were trying to make. And that was what we sought to do during those years. Woody McLendon: Thank you. And I appreciate that because the vision and as you talk ⁓ the structures, the processes were essentially and very effective in a mission paradigm of the previous century, the 20th century, and adapting those for this new season of what God's doing is is a lot of work. And helping people think through and appreciate what's been accomplished and evaluate the future is pretty significant. ⁓ I want to ask just a related question about SIL before we move on to a couple other things. And that is ⁓ ministry contribution is a bit unique. It's not just a Bible translation organization, though the motivation of Scripture getting to people's hearts and lives is a key part. Can you, in your own express your sense of the unique call God has on SIL ⁓ as an organization and a ministry? I think that's that's significant to to to draw out. Michel Kenmogne: Yes, indeed. You know, often depending on the position from which you view SIL, it is possible to just describe SIL as a Bible agency, which is true. But when you look at SIL from another angle, it is possible to see SIL as a development organization or a language development organization, which is true too. And if you look at it from even another angle, you may see SIL as literacy and education organization. And that is true as well. But actually what is at the heart of all of those things that SIL does is the issue of language. Because from the outset, Cameron Townsend realized that people could not flourish, people were cast out of their own societies. People were marginalized because of the issue of language. He ⁓ to use language as the platform in order to help the people find reconciliation with God, ⁓ their own place and voice within their own nation states through education. And for that to happen, those languages that were despised and neglected needed to be developed needed to be provided with writing systems and so on. is why the ministry of SIL is sometimes seen to be very broad and kind of ⁓ like lacking focus. But actually there is a clear focus and that focus is ⁓ language. Language that enables translation, language that enables good education, language that enables foundation for the development of the people and so on. So that is what I would say SIL is all about. And actually, ⁓ think from what I've observed, ⁓ is the clear powerhouse of the whole Bible translation movement. Think of the many tools that get used in the field of translation, Paratext and all the software, even the field of ⁓ intelligence, think of Scripture Forge and so on. Most of those are developed in the context of SIL. If you think in the area of linguistics and language development, think of tools like Flex ⁓ many others. ⁓ are developed in the context of SIL. Think of the literacy tools and strategies. You think of ⁓ of these ⁓ those tools are Woody McLendon: Right. Michel Kenmogne: available out there to the whole Bible translation movement. And this reminds me always that SIL is like this of foundation upon which ⁓ other organizations can build. And that is just the responsibility that SIL needs to continue to assume as the organization that was the first in this space when Townsend started it in 1934. Woody McLendon: You completed your ten years as Executive Director last year. Congratulations for finishing well. Looking back on those ten years of service, what memories or what things bring you the most joy as you reflect on what God did during that season? Michel Kenmogne: Yeah, been a year since I left that role. ⁓ don't ⁓ I've reflected enough be able to say the things, ⁓ the one that I can still say even at any time is just to see how was gracious during that time because I don't think that I was qualified in any way to be able to step into the leadership of SIL as the first person who not actually grown within ranks SIL. And also as someone who came not from the traditional sending places of into SIL but from Global South, from Cameroon ⁓ having grown in ⁓ my rural context with all of the stories I shared in our first podcast and so on. I just feel like God was so good, God was so gracious to be able to use me to just continue to advance the ministry of SIL. And the one thing that gives me much joy when I look back and when I see where SIL is going and what SIL is trying to do is to see that SIL is considering its alignment with the current missiological paradigm by embracing what we call localization or being locally rooted in the many contexts where we serve around the world. And when I go to places, as I just happened to have been in Indonesia last month, to visit SIL in Indonesia and to see those Indonesians who are there really pursuing the same calling of SIL and feeling like we are SIL. I feel like, yes, this is what it means to be SIL in the 21st century. For sure, in the 20th century, that group of people would have been essentially, say, maybe from North America and so on. But some realities changed. Even the political realities in Indonesia changed. And we had to still continue to find ways to do the same ministry. And to be in Indonesia and to see that the ministry is still happening, with Indonesians leading and being excited about it, I feel like yes, those 10 years were not spent in vain. Woody McLendon: Amen. Well, I absolutely affirm those ten years were not spent in vain at all. And appreciate personally and in many ways, depth and breadth of how God worked in and through you. And I think your perspectives actually coming from a minority language community from Cameroon were a rich contribution to ⁓ the work of Bible translation. So thank you. ⁓ I want to shift for a moment and ask a few fun and a little simple questions just to get to know you a bit as a person. Then I have one last deeper topic before we close. So tell me, Michel, what's your favorite sport or activity, physical activity to participate in? Michel Kenmogne: Yeah, when I was younger, if had me the question 20 years back, I would have said soccer. But these days, I enjoy ⁓ running or walking, ⁓ long walks. And when talk of running, taking like five kilometers run or seven, times ten, when I have more time. It's something I really enjoy. Actually I ran for about eight kilometers this and that makes me feel good. ⁓ Woody McLendon: Good for you. Good, good, good. Now, do you do you do you follow any sport in particular to watch is something fun for you to watch? Michel Kenmogne: ⁓ yeah, what I still really watch all the time, most of the time is soccer. Woody McLendon: Uh-huh. So you're are you watching any of the World Cup? Michel Kenmogne: For sure, I'm tracking some teams and especially African teams as I want to see. Unfortunately, my country is not part of it this time, but I'm tracking to see how others are doing. Just yesterday, it was amazing to see how Congo was able to play so well against Portugal after 52 years out of the World Cup. It's a new day in soccer, so... Woody McLendon: Amen. It is. And that was an amazing match too. I enjoyed that. So tell me another thing. When you think back of home and life in your what special food from home brings back memories of ⁓ joy and brings special memories of your growing up? Michel Kenmogne: yeah. ⁓ well, I mean, I would tell you frankly, Woody, that we live in Europe, but we still eat mostly Cameroonian food. ⁓ Yeah, mean, Europe is not that far away from home and there's always opportunities to get stuff home. And there are also stores in the big cities of Europe where you can still find Cameroonian stuff, Woody McLendon: ⁓ good. Okay. Michel Kenmogne: like banana and some root crops like cassava and yeah so we there's there's so many things from from Africa and we still enjoy Cameroonian food most of the time. Woody McLendon: So is there any specific dish that really makes you feel, you know, rooted in your identity, something and it maybe something you would eat regularly or maybe something for a special holiday event or something? Just curious. Michel Kenmogne: ⁓ Yeah, is this one meal which is done with banana which is ⁓ somewhat ripe and banana is fried and then it is ⁓ also it done and mixed with chicken and lots of vegetables. And I tell you Woody that thing is so special and so good ⁓ and that ⁓ if you were plan a visit here, ⁓ Woody McLendon: ⁓ it sounds it. Michel Kenmogne: Angèle and I would make sure that that's the thing you ⁓ Woody McLendon: Well, I hope someday that that will be possible. And ⁓ it sounds delicious. So another question. You have done a lot of travel, flying all over the world. What tips, techniques, things, habits did you learn to help sustain you through the pressures of travel and even the challenges of jet lag? Michel Kenmogne: I think on that one, I would really say I'm not sure that I was able to overcome jet lag. And ⁓ that ⁓ on some ⁓ I did not struggle at all. But on others, I really, really ⁓ I but what I always try to do has been to make sure that I do physical exercise because it makes a big difference. To get in a especially in hotel if there's a gym to go to the gym for one hour and just having the body kind of exercise it kind of the body and often it helps to find sleep. I've tried some of the pills like melatonin and many others sometimes it works, others it doesn't work so ⁓ so I can't ⁓ that I really found something always worked the time. Woody McLendon: Yeah, I understand. I will say I do remember when we were in meetings together and I would be out for a walk in the morning, I'd often see you on the treadmill exercising. And I was always very impressed at your focus and determination for that. so well done and thank you. One last question in that domain, and then we're going to move on to one last topic for conversation before we close. And that is leaders are called to be learners. And that's part of what helps us grow. What kind of things are you learning right now or interested in learning more about today? Michel Kenmogne: Yeah, there's always stuff to be reading, to be learning ⁓ about. ⁓ I always, I'm not always reading on one topic each time. I'm always reading on ⁓ many topics. now, I'm reading on the issue in missiology the topic of contextualization has been very very important for me. ⁓ And I the book on ⁓ the in New Testament by Fleming and currently reading one on contextualization in the Old Testament by a Chinese theologian called somebody Huang. That's in the area of missiology. In the area of just spirituality, I've rereading a book by Foster, on prayer. And what else I reading days? There's a book ⁓ by a professor from Cameroon who is just reflecting on what's going on in Cameroon as a nation. I started reading ⁓ book two days ago. Yeah, ⁓ I'm always reading something here or there depending on the ⁓ Woody McLendon: That's great. Good for you. Well, they sound like they're not reading topics. So thank you. And I appreciate those thoughtful reflections. So the last topic I'd like touch on are boards. You've served as Executive Director under different boards. You've served as a board member. You're actually the board chair of the ⁓ IFES. And I want you reflect a little bit on the value of a board ⁓ in a organization. Why is it important to have a strong board? Michel Kenmogne: Yeah, I think as I said it before in my own ministry in Cameroon with CABTAL, I realized that we struggled a lot as an organization. But when we were able to have strong board, made up of people who were committed ⁓ ⁓ believers themselves ⁓ who could represent the ministry in places where we could never have been as ⁓ leaders staff. That started to ⁓ build the reputation of the organization in a new way. ⁓ That was of the things that I started to learn by observation myself. But the second thing that really discovered was a study that IFES, the International Fellowship of Evangelical Students did some years back, ⁓ trying to because SIL is a fellowship of 163 national organizations spread all around the globe. ⁓ And they trying to understand what are the that cause some ministries ⁓ to be strong and effective and what are the factors that cause some ministries to be ineffective and weak. And they looked and of all the factors, governance was the key factor that was always present. Good governance was always undergirding all the effective organizations and bad governance was always undergirding all the organizations that were struggling. So from that time, IFES said we need to invest in because that is like the one thing that when it is done well, it ⁓ the right effects at all other is to say that governance is so so important in organizations. ⁓ never see the board because the board is not the leadership, the board is not the CEO, the board is not the staff who are out doing ministry. ⁓ board is always like ⁓ behind the scenes but the board is the one that ⁓ the staff accountable. The board is the one that ensures that the vision and the mission are honored and are pursued. And when you have an effective board, it really, really helps an organization to stay strong, and to stay on course, and to stay effective in its ⁓ So to me, the of a board, it cannot undermined in any way possible because boards are essential for the well-functioning of any organization. Woody McLendon: So just for those who are not as familiar with the activities of a nonprofit board, if you would touch on some key of a a healthy and strong, capable board, what would they look like in your mind based on the training and experience you've had? Michel Kenmogne: Yes, maybe in a very simple terms, I would say a good board should always clarify the responsibilities. ⁓ should be clear what is the role of the board and what is the role of management. That is something very important because when those roles are clearly defined, it helps to have clear swimming lanes, which would not cause the board to be doing the job of the management, or the management to be making policies that the board should be making. Of course, in the organizations, there could be administrative policies. That's one thing, but there are also board policies that have to apply and guide the work of the whole organization. Anyway, so clarifying the roles one thing. also now for the board itself to understand its role. Most boards ⁓ simply trying to ⁓ once in order to ⁓ approve the budget of the organization and then they disband and then they come the following year to find out, ⁓ yeah, was the budget ⁓ executed? I think approving the budget is just a very small part of the job of a board, a ⁓ very one but that is a small of the responsibility of the board. The board has ⁓ that responsibility to hold the accountable, hold the management accountable for making the progress in the mission of the organization, hold the management accountable for keeping the organization in good health, hold the CEO and the staff accountable for that the finances and the human resources are well managed and so on. That is part of the fiduciary responsibility of the board. But there's also a strategic responsibility that the board has to carry. And as part of that strategic responsibility, The board has to oversee the strategic planning development process to see that the management is working to make the plans that help the ministry to make progress and to accomplish its purpose and to monitor those plans to see that they are happening effectively. And another role of the board is to inspire the organization. This is what we also call the generative of the board is to inspire the organization to always dream big of the vision of the organization ⁓ not just to stay maybe in the box of what we currently know but always challenge the organization to dream bigger and to look higher and to to look at what God may be doing which is not happening right now. So there is so much that the board can do and the board can bring into an organization in order to allow the organization to really be strong and to be healthy and to be effective in its mission. Woody McLendon: Thank you. And I know behind that there's so much more that can be said. And and I want to ask you the some questions, but I have to hold myself back because we've had a really, really good conversation together. Is there any last point between the board, Executive Director, CEO comments that you'd like to reflect on? Michel Kenmogne: Yeah, and I think that's a very key question. And I have happen to have served in both positions as a CEO, but also as a board chair. So I can see life from ⁓ both angles. ⁓ I can say that ⁓ relationship between the board chair and the CEO is actually the relationship that maintains the health of the organization. When that relationship is healthy, it can spread into the whole organization. If that relationship is toxic or unhealthy, it can also harm the whole organization. And that has been my experience. And I, by God's grace, I've worked hard to maintain good relationship with my board chairs. And by God's grace too, my chairs, be it at CABTAL or in SIL Global and so on. I've really appreciated working with people like Karel van der Mast, with Hans Combrink, and so on as chairs and maintaining good relationships. And those relationships have been great. And having good relationship, what does that actually mean? Because a word like that is very simple to say. But good relationship means, means ⁓ there is mutual respect, that I understand the role of the board and they also understand the role of the management we can respect each other as we carry out those roles. Good relationship also means that as CEO, I don't shun accountability. I to understand that performance evaluation, ⁓ my performance is the job of the to evaluate my performance. It's nothing against me as a person. It is just part of the good governance. And when I understand it, I can participate in that process and naturally and so on. ⁓ a good relationship also entails that ⁓ just maintain to developing a good friendship with the board, with the board chair. And the friendship here can be very tricky. Does friendship entail that ⁓ having a friendship means that the chair cannot do his job well. ⁓ I don't that is what it means. ⁓ But the friendship that we develop a that can give us the opportunity to even talk about difficult topics together without feeling like being threatened or having any issue to with those topics. And once that friendship is in ⁓ it helps ⁓ most CEO to transparent with board, because the sign of an unhealthy board, board management relationship is when the CEO is not transparent to the board and hides the information that could help the board to make its governance decisions. Actually this whole topic would be the topic for a podcast in itself. So I don't know much to say. Yeah. ⁓ Woody McLendon: Yeah, absolutely. And I love it. Yeah. No, I think I think we covered a lot of ground. This is really helpful. And, you know, every every element of this conversation, I want to ask more questions, but we do have a basic limit. And I think we've come to the end of the conversation. But Michel, thank you so, so much. I am honored and grateful to have you as a friend, but also for this opportunity to have this conversation and to hear some the things that you have learned in your journey. Some things that inspire me today, even as I hear and reflect on goodness and his leading of you, can help me become a stronger leader in season ahead. So thank you so much. This has been absolutely and just a lot of fun. Michel Kenmogne: Yes, thank you Woody. It's been a joy to do life and to do ministry with you. As I said, it's good to count you as a brother and as a friend. Thank you very much. Woody McLendon: Well, thank you. Thank you so much. And and to those of you who are listening, I just want to encourage you. Thank you for through and listening here to the end. If this conversation encouraged you in some way, think of someone else who might find the lessons and the story and the journey of leadership of this conversation to help them. this episode with someone you know who can also grow and develop too. So thank you. We look forward to the next episode and the Lord be with you and bless you. Thanks so much. Michel Kenmogne: Thank you.